GRRM’s Lost Drafts: Young Griff and Maelys the Monstrous 

“History is a garden. We are easily distracted by the fruits and flowers, but it is the roots that matter.” damn

To me, at this point, even if Griff/Aegon is a Blackfyre, that's close enough to being a Targaryen, considering how few there are left now.

I want fire & blood 2 simply to get the blackfyre rebellions

The "10 Golden Apples" story is just too funny to me. The image of golden tongue assembling all those pirate and mercenary lords, only to say to Maelys:"oy mate could you lend me a hand to get to those juicy apples?", and then Maelys replying a bit confused:" eh sure, why not". Like the guy has clearly no morals, considering he burned his own child, but he still decides to help out an fairly unknown guy pluck some apples, even though there where probably servants around that could have done it. Then the thought of Golden Tongue standing on Maelys shoulders, whipping back and forth to get stability and grab the apples, both looking like two farm boys trying to steal from the neighbours tree (also its rather hard to get into such a position and a really akward for two grown men, never the less to self titled kings). And now keep in mind Maelys deformed head coming out of his one shoulder. Either Golden Tongue had to stand very carefully on his shoulders to not stand on it, or he stood on Maelys deformed head, which must be pretty painful and awkward, especially for all the other eight lords standing around and looking at this performance in uncomfortable silence XD

If Aegon is really a Blackfyre, then this text would indicate that he actually knows it, as he says Maelys had a claim to the throne; something extremely odd for a supposed Targaryen to say. Now, since GRRM cut it from the released text, it could be that he decided on Aegon not knowing his true identity, which I think is more likely to be the case.

Imagine what gold is hidden in the ADWD manuscripts. You know theres something since GRRM forced the library to lock them away until TWOW is released.. Now that i think about it that is excellent fodder for a movie A la 2009s Fanboys about breaking into the cushing library to peek at the ADWD manuscripts

The comparison of Dany's perception to that of Maelys is very interesting. A monster come to conquer, not a leader come home. An excellent video!

Clearly this was in a fairly rough stage before GRRM discarded it, but I like the symbolism of a tree of crowns and Aegons group not being dissimilar to the ninepenny kings, I live for GRRM's subtext, hope he reworks this somehow to be at the start of winds or something, because until George releases it we should be skeptical of it, he's perfectly capable of changing things in his own world (the fact this stuff exists is proof of that) but enjoyed this video a lot, quite insightful to the Aegon cause.

Love Blackfyre lore and getting this much background on the Band of Nine and more on Maelys has my head buzzing. You got a new sub right here

That's crazy how he killed his own Cousin, especially in such a way. Started his rule as a Kinslayer right out the gate, and weakened the Blackfyre family due to this.... R.I.P. to Daemon III and the son too. I mean, yeah that was dumb, cause if Illyrio is truly Griff's dad then, he's not even really a Blackfyre, cause the name doesn't go through the female line

It is also interesting to note that the fighting in the stepstones went on for another year after Maelys died. Now there's very little evidence to suggest it, but what if in another Stannis parallel Maelys had a daughter? And it's that daughter's claim the ninepenny kings were wasting resources on in the stepstones. That ties well into the FAegon theory

Man you’re on a roll recently with these videos and interesting topics. Great job, keep going my guy.

It's interesting that this was cut from AFFC, potentially on account of how obvious the implications of fAegon being a Blackfyre are; but in that same book George still included other Blackfyre foreshadowing with the backstory of the Inn at the Crossroads in Brienne VII. Maybe the mystery GRRM wanted to protect wasn't fAegon's status as a Blackfyre; it's fAegon's knowledge of who he is. While I definitely think lying to fAegon about his own identity is the best way to protect the secret, having him know and being in on the lie gives the character an entirely different connotation- and I don't hate it. I don't support him; but I like that he'd be more grey than we originally thought.

Found your channel recently a love it. Keep up the good work

Really starting to look forward to your videos dude, sweet original content for real.

Thanks for this video! Way more chill than reading a reddit post

I am not surprised George discarded this draft. It really gives a strong argument for Young Griff being a Blackfyre, and if he doesn't know it, he was at least raised to consider their claim legitimate - but wouldn't that invalidate the claim of his own line? George probably found it not subtle enough.

This is interesting to me in regards of how differently Aegon and Daenerys are viewed by others in their world. Daenerys technically being the rightful queen if we go by the Targaryen way and everybody in Westeros hates her more or less, and Aegon being a fake Targaryen (Blackfyre) and everybody loves him. Shes an actual Targaryen with actual dragons and yet shes cucked by a fake Targ with no dragons just because hes a dude. I think they would both be good monarchs respectively but its odd to see that they are treated very differently in Westeros, especially when Westeros itself claims to be better than the other continent in most ways and yet they actually arent as progressive.

Thank you! Super interesting news!

What do you think the circumstances for the burning of Shireen might be? The logistics obviously don't line up with the way the show did it, yet it's still hard for me to imagine what could actually push Stannis to that level of desperation unless it was due to a confrontation with something more than human. We can reasonably assume the situation is a consequence of the cold, so I'm thinking maybe he is facing the Others and/or an army of the dead. That's my theory at least. I just don't see Stannis as being that desperate just because it friggin Ramsey Bolton.

i love your vids!

I’ll basically accept this background stuff about the band of nine as canon rn cause it makes perfect sense

Frankly, the main point behind my conviction that Aegon is from the Blackfyre line is not textual. It is obvious that GRRM takes inspiration from real life history. The Dance was clearly inspired by Matilda and Stephen. And the main story drinks from the Wars of the Roses like its dying in a desert. Even killer weddings have real life precedence. What George is yet to do is a pretender plot. There were 3 big ones around Henry VII. And twice someone pretended to be one of the Princes in the Tower. And once, it was a Earl of Warwick but the real one was still alive in prison and able to be presented as proof. And if you read how Lambert Simnel was educated by a paid off priest and at probable instigation of future rebel leaders lords you can almost taste Young Gryff. Not to mention other cases, like all the fake Dimitris or Anastasias. And all those claimants were proven false. So, unless I am missing a part of ASOIAF history, the 'dead royal' plot is still up for grabs. And it's such a significant thing recurring through the ages that I would be surprised if George didn't use it in his work. 🤷🏼‍♀️

My primary issue with the War of the Ninepenny Kings, and possibly the same reason why GRRM doesn't want to really linger on it, is that it's essentially a bunch of jobbers getting their asses completely handed to them by Aerys. It's an extremely stupid stunt that only complete idiots would do, uniting the full military might of all their enemies. Its only purpose was to give the generation that would end up fighting in Robert's Rebellion some valuable combat experience.

I think that in ADWD, young Griff most definitely knows he's a blackfyre because he claims that the golden company is his and has no mention of hesitation claiming a Targaryen rebel free company

I think Aegon is the Person he says he is. He isn't a Blackfyre and GRRM knew everyone would jump to the Conclusion that Aegon is a Blackfyre. He knows his audience very well and because Aegon is not a Blackfyre he did cut that Part out of his published Work. I mean everyone accepts that Ned could hide Jon in plain sight although he is the most unpolitical Person in the World and only had his reputation for being honourable and honest to ensure that Jon would be safe as his Bastard (tbh it would have been safer to let him stay in Dorne with house Dayne as a Sand mostly because Robert was still King and still his Friend so, it was inevitable that Robert would come to Winterfell at some Point) We know an unpolitical Kings Guard saved Daenerys and Viserys from Dragonstone during a sacking when Robert came with a Fleet to kill these 2 Children. Why does no one believe that Varys the Spider, the Person who convinced everybody he would serve King Robert loyal that this Person is not capable to switch a Baby and bring him to Essos. Not even Fathers can see which Baby is their Wife without the Wet Nurses telling them and without being there during Birth. And no Elia was not outside of that Plan, I am fully convinced she planned exactly that with Varys together. She knew she couldn't save her Daugther because as a Toddler she was too recognizable to be switched with someone, but her Baby Son could be easily switched with a different Baby. Because except for Wet nurses and Mothers no one can distinguish Babys from one another. And by the Way it makes for the more interesting Story but aside from that, Tyrion said it himself in this Passage, Swords can only partially win a Kingdom, you need the support of the People. Plotwise it isn't important if Aegon is really who he says he is, the only important thing is, if People will believe him and support his Claim. And giving the Fact that he is a capable Ruler, I think People want him and not Daenerys.

Have you reached out to Preston Jacobs' handler, Carmine from RedTeamReview? You should totally call in during a live stream since we actually have new material to parse through. Your passion for the story and fresh theories are truly a blessing to this community and gives me hope I haven't had in years. Thanks for the content. Hope teaching is going well. Have a great day.

Am I the only one here who thinks aegon is legit. This doesn’t confirm much it’s still up in the air. Can anyone explain how Jon connigton thinks aegon looks a lot like rhaegar just with lighter shade of purple eyes. Lysono maar has Valyrian colours but it doesn’t mean he looks like rhaegar. Just because you have purple eyes and silver hair is not enough too look like a targ descendant. It’s clear that young griff actually resembles his father, otherwise Jon con would say he doesnt

Ive read the Jon part on reddit right now and the significance in waking dragons at the wall made me only think of one thing.. Not that Stannis or the wall itself had any eggs laying around since good queen Alysanne No They only have one "Egg" laying around, dead. And this Egg being Jon, or maybe even Aegon, our secret Targ that shall be woken again upon his resurrection

Dope vid

This is probably from the same version that has Jon Conn in possession of Blackfyre hidden the chests that Illyrio gives them. The book was already too long so not surprised this stuff got cut, but as it is in canon it’s kinda jarring how Tyrion goes from meeting Griff and young griff to puzzling out their identity his very next chapter

Oooh im excited....

A lesser remembered thing is that the Blackfyres are not only descended from Aegon IV, but Aegon III as well through Daena the Defiant, and with Daemon I being legitimised it could put him in the running for legit succession (not withstanding any misogyny from westerosi society about inheriting through a woman)

So there is possibly a differnt clutch of eggs floatingvaround out there? Interesting!

to me neither griff or dany have any significant right to rule simply because their dynasty is over. The best either could hope for is to establish a new one through fire and blood

Cannot lie I’ll never get over the allegations that Maelys the monstrous killed a horse with a single punch. We think of The Mountain as being a freak of nature but even he had to use a sword to kill his horse in a single blow. A PUNCH?! That’s just horrifyingly insane.

I always found the idea of their being only two backfires remaining dumb like your telling me these guys never multiplied like rabbits to preserve their line

Very interesting

Cool vid

Is Varys the boy of four🤨. He said that when he was young he traveled with a group of mummers and that a sorcerer cut him into pieces and threw those pieces in the flame. I wonder if the mummers was metaphor for the band of 10 pretending to be allies and if malies sold his son to a sorcerer to wake the dragon eggs. However the plot failed and Varys was cast aside. Maybe that's why geroge cut it out. 😮

Could I fund your audio setup directly? No memes love the content

I also wonder if Maelys was perhaps too exaggerated for Martin. Aside from Gregor Clegane he keeps most stuff relatively grounded, but Maelys uprooting trees with one arm or twisting someones head off are feats that would make even Gregor blush. Although if it was just that it would have probably been just tweaked, not removed.

I think removing this scene along with the reference to the sword Blackfyre that had been in the pre-release ADWD chapter points to GRRM changing his mind about Young Griff. It could just be about the reveal coming later or being unknown to Aegon but to me, it seems more likely that GRRM decided to make him Rhaegar's son instead of a Blackfyre. The foreshadowing in Brienne's AFFC chapter is an artifact of a road not taken.

based video

We all only been to about what will happen in Winds of Winter yet no one is talking about Dream of Spring. Any ideas what it will be about?

I wouldn’t say this confirms he’s a Blackfyre honestly I think it to show his style of thinking a rule by the sword mentality and also establish that he believes he has a better claim the Daenerys by the simple virtue of being a man honestly to me that blackfyres are for the dunk and egg stories but I wouldn’t mind at all if he was

I much prefer this to what we got. This is because it feels so much more relevant to the characters and because I find Westeros so much more interesting than Essos.

What if Jon's own blood from his death helps him wake a dragon?

Book Stannis would never burn Shireen. She's his only heir. And they aren't even close to one another geographically. Melisandre might burn her though

If only it were cannon 😢

This scene foreshadows young griffs blackfyre heritage perfectly.

Love Maelys 💕

I don't think this chapters shows that agon knows that he is a backfire

Maelys the Monstrous definitely suffered from diphalia.

Wait Quinn, blacks or greens? Who do you support?

Alright but why is Maelys about to rip off the head of the singer of a 2005 Emo band in the thumbnail?

Young Griff is 100% a Blackfyre. This was just way too on the nose for Martin to keep in.

honestly, i’m an fdany believer through and through which is weird when the whole community thinks it’s the other way around

Are u telling me that Daemon had a 4 year old son? GUYS, what if Daemon had impregnated his wife before his death and she gave birth after Maelys had already went off to war, the blackfyres live on. Also I’m of the belief that Aegon is a Blackfyre or maybe even a Lysene descendant of Aerion

First one

9min of a passage I have already read. 2.1/2min of information I already knew....👎

The first new chapter I've listened to since Kevan's in Dance.