Guitar Amps - Will Go Extinct - The Way of the Dinosaur 

I’ll be keeping my tube amps. The high end “extinct” ones that are no longer made will be even more valuable to me as we age. I’ve owned and will own more modelers and such for gigs and convenience. It’s a subject just like plugins vs hardware lagging about 10yrs or more behind. Real glass through real speaker cabs is still a magical experience.

i'm a millennial who grew up playing solid state amps and plugging into interfaces (running PT and Ableton). i got a spark a few years ago and that was my house main amp (otherwise i plug into my interface and just play/record in logic) until it started acting weird and finicky several months ago. so i did a ton of research and i just got my first ever tube amp--the stage right/harley benton 15 watt--and i honestly love it. i had always low-key rolled my eyes whenever someone said that tube amps "just feel different" but goddammit if it ain't true! also, it's just nice to plug into an amp and not have to deal with clicking around on the computer or the (annoying) positive grid app, which is what i already do all day every day anyway. i want something that doesn't require more Screen Time™. i was deciding between that and the orange 35 and decided to go with the stage right: slightly cheaper and it looks highly modular. i've watched several youtubers swap out the speaker and tubes so if i ever want to upgrade it i can. one last anecdote: i was at sxsw earlier this month and i'd say just about every band i saw was playing through amps. those bands were mostly pop rock/indie rock and i know that most modern metal bands are all about their axe-fx's quad cortexes and helixes and tonex's and all the x's these days, which is what youtube leans heavily toward, so i dunno, i think modelers/digital may be its own bubble.

Nothing beats the feeling of a roaring Marshall making my guitar feel alive I’m my hands. Never getting rid of any of my amps. Even if I’m only cranking em for me.

I think amps will stick around, but ultimately will become like vinyl records. There will be some that love the sound & nostalgia of them and will hold on to them as long as they are able. The rest of us will move on. As technology gets better, the simulations will outshine the originals with convenience, consistency, flexibility and price. Most of us will adapt and embrace it. Interestingly enough, Jim Lill has a RU-vid video up titled “Where does an amps’ tone come from?”. After capturing the eq changes relative to where the distortion takes place, using a tackle box and a few pedals, he is able to recreate 3 different tube amps (a Fender, Vox & Marshall). Well worth a look. That said, while I’m not selling anything I’ve got just yet, it would be foolish to think this isn’t happening sooner than later. How many DJ’s do you see bringing records to a gig these days?

No matter what happens with tube amps I'm just happy there's options these days. I finally bought a fryette power load ir and it's really improved my studio workload.

I couldn't agree more. I'm 35 later this year, and if I started playing today, there's no way I'd ever invest in an actual tube amp. What a lot of folks don't seem to realize is that the tech we have available to us today, at this very moment, that's the WORST it's ever going to be. We've seen "deepfakes" evolve from being corny to scarily realistic, the same thing with AI generated voices (like Darth Vaders voice in the Kenobi tv-series was done on an AI program, James Ear Jones did not get into a studio to do the voice) and such. Once modelers/profilers get so good, that even the "feel" of a tube amp is 100% replicated (because the tones are already at that point), tube amps will become obsolete for the average player. We're nearly there already.

I agree. I bought a Quad Cortex a few months ago and blown away daily.

no one has shown me how tone x can emulate the experience of playing guitar in a room (which is how i enjoy playing guitar and get most inspiration).... you can buy a lot more hardware like poweramps and speaker cabs to emulate playing a real amp in a room, but then why wouldnt i just buy a regular amp. this is coming from someone who had modellers and is young. now i just play a 57 champ with pedals. so much more satisfying.

a great guitarist needs a great amp. the connection between player and amp is essential. modellers lack feel

I know several younger guitar players that learned and grew on transistor and digital amps. It's a beautiful thing to behold when you plug them into a quality tube amp. At first they can't understand all the noises they hear because they haven't had to master muting techniques. It's like a 10 year old driving a Corvette. But then they start to understand the relationship between player, guitar, amp and sound waves. The expression is usually the same, oh sh!t, that's what I've been looking for. If old guitar players keep passing the torch, tube amps will enjoy a long, happy and hopefully loud future! - Nocodefortone

I think amp owners will be more like people who are classic car owners. Practically it just makes much more sense budget wise and logistically to use modelers and profilers in live settings and even in recording. So the big boys (Fender, Marshall, Vox...) will probably focus on boutique custom shop amps if they can survive. This transition is not complete yet and I disagree that amps will become dinosaurs. Just more of a rare luxury than an essential piece of gear for the guitarist

Funny thing is I bought an FM9 Turbo about 4 weeks ago. Absolutely love it! Had an opportunity to trade a PRS Fiore for a 55 watt Rivera Venus Deux Recording amp about a week ago and I am absolutely blown away with it! Makes me want to get another amp (even though I basically have everything in the FM9 Turbo and also the Tone X plug-in). Long live awesome guitar gear!

I think you are spot on, when it comes down to it, price and practicality wins

I am an older generation and don't even own an amp. I just use plugins for it. Great Video.

I'll stick with my Fender and Marshall amps. Digital tech is really only convenient for those who can't pick up an amp, physically, and for recording. I also use an 11 Rack and it's fantastic. The thing people seem to ignore is that a lot of the push for modelling and capturing is so people can make money. There is nobody who can listen to a properly recorded song and correctly state it was done with a Kemper, Helix, etc. or an 11 Rack ('old tech') unless they make a lucky guess. The industry is about making money by flooding the market with far too many options which leaves users spending far too much time programming and tweeking rather than actually playing. Also, most Helix, Kemper, etc., users end up only using a few tones consistently and largely ignore the other gazillion options... amps will not go extinct, in my opinion... There's nothing like plug and play into an amp and a few pedals to get better tone/sound than paying for tech that constantly needs programming, tweeking, and updates as well as trying to keep up with the next new thing.

Barry I hope you'll talk about Waves decision to go for a full subscription model. I think the video could be epic :)

The logic behind why I don’t agree: I work as a guitar tech for a major manufacturer and distributor and we have recently hired a few young guys in their early 20’s. I am 42, and I held the same opinion as your video until I met them. They don’t have a lot of money, true. But, they constantly troll fb market place and other sites and are constantly buying used gear, trading, or learning to fix or having things fixed like guitars and amps for deals and steals. They are just as obsessive as I am trying to get certain high end or vintage amps to get certain sounds. Some worship bands like Sabbath, or newer hardcore metal bands, some Clapton, Jazz guys or hard core blues guys and are trying to get close to the same gear and while much is out of reach, they keep hunting for the real stuff. One guy got a killer vintage Music Man amp for $300. They’ll use the profilers, but they want the real thing. This shocked me, because I believed tube amps were headed towards the toilet with the younger guys and yet, they weren’t. They are learning what Page used, SRV, Van Halen, Brian Setzer, Buddy Guy, Rory Gallagher and collecting and trading their way up to as close as possible. Doing the ground work to get those plexis, vibraverbs, Bluesbreakers, etc. and they are getting them for great deals. So, I don’t think tube amps are going the way of the Dodo or Dinosaurs, it’s just us being dumb and overreacting to the millennial generation that was of the opinion that tube amps are for boomers.

The problem here is the recording application is a process. The sound I want may be clear but it may also change. It may also evolve multiple times. By slow increments. So until modeling and profiling catches up with that (I'd say 20 years) then I would probably hold onto my amps.

High end tube amps remind me of high end stereo gear when I was a kid. I wanted it but it was just a dream. Today ay 60, I am loving the new virtual amp sims, plugin FXs, and recording in a DAW all by myself. A boutique amp would be of sentimental value only.

Good video, valid points. As a millennial DIYer, and someone being too poor to afford a modeler/ profiler, I was thinking about making a petal sized object that would sound like a tube amp. But being the lazy DIYer that I am, not caring about how to make a modeler or profiler (what’s the difference anyways?). I chose the other option, and I did have a box of “fancy lightbulbs” from a 50’s tv set, some resistors capacitors etc to work with. A wall wart transformer with a 40:1 turns ratio for the output. And another for the filaments. The project is still in the breadboard stage but was a success! Now I need a proper power transformer for safety as outlets can be miswired, and a reverb driver transformer for mounting ease. I think I shall call it a tube modeling amp hehe, as it is a miniature sized working model of a tube amp, not unlike flying model airplanes are to real planes.😁😁😁

Honestly you're absolutely right. There's so many factors against the continued existence of tube amps.

We have our own splitter snake, and roll into a venue with a digital board, hooked into a wifi router... and everyone on stage can set their own IEM mix. We can set them on the digital mixer as well. I use a HeadRush Pedalboard and the stage noise floor is almost non-existent, so I know exactly what you are saying. I used to lug around a tube amp and I love them, but for pure ease of stage set up and simplicity of managing our own on stage monitor mix, this makes it as easy as possible. As I've gotten older, the size of the tube amps has gotten smaller and lighter, but I don't ever see playing on stage with a tube amp ever again. The biggest adjustment, to be honest, is the fact that a tube amp on stage bleeds thru open vocal mics on stage, and that sounds completely different in a set of In-Ear monitors. I was not ready for the way it sounded at all, so the first few shows in that set up were 'strange'. But you adapt. Now, when we roll in to a venue that prefers to not use the splitter and give us IEM control (they provide wedges), that is actually something to get used to now.

Barry, I really like your channel. This is clickbait. I hold you to a higher standard because I think you’re better than this.

While I get what your getting at, I've been hearing the death of tube amps for the past 30 years or so lol. When I was younger I fell into that trap, bought my first effects processor and sold my pedals. I regretted that pretty fast, still have my processor from 1990, and made a new pedalboard. I have a variety of tube and solid-state. Still prefer the tubes. One point you made about price of say the Axe effects stuff , where I'm living goes for about 5K , I can definitely get a tube amp cheaper then that. Granted yes you get other stuff with it, but I've never found the system that "clones " a tube amp exactly. People tend to say, in a mix no one can tell etc. But say as a hobbyists or being motivated by the actual sound your hearing to motivate you to get in a groove, it's just not the same. What I hear with all this newer stuff is everyone tends to sound very similar if not the same. Just my two cents.

I’m currently looking at six Marshall half stacks sitting behind me. But you know what I do 90% of the time when I need to record guitars? I use an amp sim. Getting the sound of standing in front of a real amp in the room is impossible. The sound changes so much by the time it’s played back as a recording. So you need to spend a ton of time fucking with it. With an amp sim, the recorded sound IS the sound I hear when I dial the plug in up. It doesn’t change because of the mic, mic placement, mic pre etc. So it’s a lot easier to deal with and get a recorded sound you like. As for amps going away. They will never totally go away. I know a BUNCH of gen Z kids that are into VHS, cassette tapes, and vinyl records. So most likely they will live in that space. For now though, amps have never been more expensive. JCM 800s you could get used all day long for $300 in the 90s. You can hardly touch one for less than $3,000 today. Also, kids will always discover rock and roll bands. The Who, Zep were all way before my time, but I found them and wanted a Marshall stack. I know a kid Hayes Noble, he’s maybe 19. Super into Husker Du, and other 70 and 80s stuff. A few years ago he reached out to me wanting to buy an SG and an Orange stack and needed some advice. He just put out an amazing record a few weeks ago. Playing an SG, an Orange stack and a Sunn head. This is NEW music. He’s not doing 80s punk. But he’s influenced by it. So I still have some hope.

I do use modeling VST stuff to record with , it is easier , quicker and pretty great sounding nowadays. I do not however think that tube amps will disappear until the means to support them is exhausted. I still love how a tube amps sounds, but more so. I love how they feel. It is mostly the response that I feel has not been replicated still . It just makes the stings of the guitar feel immediate. I suppose for those that have not experienced this will not know the difference. But. That is for future generations to cope with.

Vinyl is selling better than at any other time since cassettes replaced it. Players will ALWAYS want what their heroes played. Tube amps aren't going extinct.

This is true. And I hope the digital guitar systems will one day be able to stand on their own instead of trying to clone history. People crave yesterday’s tones except for those brave enough to not judge tone based on historical bias. And the modelers get close, but not there yet. But the recent improvements are very positive, the value proposition is shifting faster!

Nah. Amps are fun and music is a hobby. They will become niche

Ok Barry, we’re now onto talking about the new Wave Subscription plane man. This needs to change, community desperately needs your help sir.

For live I think a small combo amp is just easier for getting a good tone right out the box, monitoring your tone and hearing yourself on stage in the mix. I´ve had modelers where it took me hours to get a good clean tone that works for some of my weird guitars (1k pots), where there is a lot of flexiblity but most tones were unusable. Then I have to go play in ears where I hear 5+ instruments through the same tiny speaker where everything gets mushed and drowned out. With so many variables you kinda get paralysed and just stay on the neck pickup the whole night. If I plug into my tube amp and set volume, bass and treble at 5 I know I'm good. Play softly and it's clean, play harder and it distorts. Simple.

Some quick math on the Helix floor unit puts at least $100k worth of amp and pedal modeling R&D at my feet for around $1500. And they're still releasing new updates to expand and improve it many years after launch. I picked up a used Line6 DT25 and DT50 combos for around $400 each, and I can't imagine wanting much else regarding tone options for a while.

You couldn’t be more wrong… but I will explain why (hold tight, it might be a long comment ;)). First of all, I’m old enough to remember that I already heard what you’re saying, during the first wave of digital back in the ‘90s. Everyone was supposed to ditch their big 100w tube amps, or even their fridge size rack from the ‘80s to go full digital. Except back in the days, it wasn’t Helix, Fractal Axe FX or Quad Cortex, it was Zoom, Digitech and such. And what happened next, we go a surge of analog tube amp, but this time it wasn’t big 100w head, it was the tiny head era, low wattage amps to be more convenient to the new norms, new venues requirements and to play in your bedroom. And then we got a surge for new boutique pedals, when we also thought that pedals were going away with the digital wave. So the way we can see it is that plenty of things can happen in the future, we can have new waves and trends. It comes and go. And we can look at the current gear to have an idea to what might come next. So yes, digital might become a majority choices, just like digital cameras are the first choice for 99% of the population (either DSLR or simply our phone now). And yet, you will found a small minority of people that will still use film cameras. With the progress in digital amps, and the race to the bottom (which is what digital is), we will get better and better products for cheaper. Today it’s Tonex doing a “revolution” because it’s $500 vs the $1,500+ for other solutions, but tomorrow it will be some Chinese company that will do it for $99 and it will sound just as good (or bad) as the current Tonex. So, because of the affordable price, majority of players (and mostly beginners) will play those digital modelers in the future… just like most photograph might use digital today when they start their craft. However, it doesn’t mean analog/tube amps will go extinct. And there’s many reason why. First of all, all those new digital modelers are simply trying to replicate those ‘50/60s technology amps. They try to replicate Fender, Marshall, Vox, Dumble and else. They’re not coming with a “new sound”. So why trying to get a replicate when you can get the “original stuff” in the first place (or the best clones). So regardless how close the digital will get from the source, there will always be people that will prefer to get the original source, which is ‘50/60s technology amps. Also with cheap labor in Asia, we can now have very cheap analog tube amps too. So you can either pay $500 for a Tonex pedals, or you can spend the same amount of money for a real analog tube amp made in Asia. So we have to look to what digital modelers offer to the player that analog tube amps cannot do. So obviously, it’s not about sound, but about features, such having a way to save and recall presets quickly. Or ability to add effects, or even a way to play quietly, or even fully silent at home, or to have an easy way to send sound to the FOH when performing on stage. So let’s take point by point. There’s today amps, generally expensive ones since they’re the first ones to have those features, but like everything and every technology, the price will go down and we can see cheaper amps to come with similar features. So, 1) having presets to save and recall: today amps such Hook Wizard, Diezel VHX, etc… can have MIDI preset to save the whole amp settings, including gain, volume, EQ, etc… 2) ability to add effects: today amps such Hughes & Kettner Grand Meister Deluxe 40, or Diezel VHX can include effects such reverb, delay, chorus, tremolo, flanger, phaser, etc… 3) ability to play quietly or silently: today, amps such Mesa Mark VII, Revv G20, etc… have a headphone out and/or loadbox to play silently without cab at night… 4) Easy way to send signal to FOH: today, amps such Suhr PT15, Mesa Mark VII, Diezel VHX, etc… can have an IR Cab out so you can send directly the amp sound to the sound engineer… So as we can see, some amps might have some of the features that favor digital modelers. And yet, those amps maintain a pure analog and tube signal path (at least up to the Preamp). So after the first “extinction” in the ‘90s with the first wave of digital, we might observe a new surge once the current digital modeler wave will go away. This new surge could be Digitally Controlled Analog Tube Amps. So it will be Analog Tube amps that will offer exactly all kind of features we like from modelers from saving and recalling preset, add effects, dry/wet routing, play quietly/silently and send IR Cab sound to Front of the House and/or In Ear Monitoring. So at this point, digital modelers will have very little advantage… which will be the ability to emulate different type of amp. But then, if we look at product such Black Widow MGP-1A, we can have pretty much all amps of our choices and yet keeping a pure analog & tube signal path. That’s why it’s considered as “hardware modelers”. So now, if you build an amp that will have a MGP-1A preamp, the features of the Diezel VHX, the feature of the H&K TriAmp mk3 Power amp with multiple tube choices, etc… then you get a perfect “hardware modeler” for the future. So, it’s very likely that we might observe more and more amps to propose some of those feature. The most obvious now is the IR Cab out and the ability to play without cab. More and more amps are starting to offer those features. So it’s very plausible that it could be the next wave amps type. So yeah, the majority of players will probably play a cheap digital system… but you will always have a minority of players that want to do differently, and go back to the roots, and maybe use gear that are based on ‘50/60s technology for the tone, but current 2020 technology for all other features. Also, because of that, the old analog tube amps will gain in value because they will become rare. That’s why I invest in Point to Point analog tube amps such Two-Rock, Dr Z, Matchless, Redplate, Rift, etc…but I like new tech, that’s why I want to buy next a Diezel VHX and Hook Wizard. And digital won’t change that… at best, it will participate to increase the value of those “old tech gear”.

Switch on, plug in, play. That simplicity plus a full, raw and room filling sound is something no modeller could give me so far. Yes, modellers are easy to carry around and convenient. Until you have to adjust parameters on stage and in the heat of battle.

Boy, are you good. Glad I found you before I lost my mind trying to tear the rings off Saturn with all this gear.

I'm ready to go digital for convenience and mobility. Still, nothing fills my living room with guitar tone like my Twin Reverb. Paid $500 for it 30 years ago. I would have to spend $3-5000 in PA or studio equipment to fill my house with this good of sound.

Several years ago when the Kemper was still becoming a thing, I used this software from Peavey called Revalver, where you could hook up an SM 57 to your laptop with the software and take profiles of whatever amp you had available to you. The profiler stuff is very old technology actually used in studios before it ever made it into hardware/software that we could take home with us…

Linear thinking rarely pans out. Understanding cycles will keep you ahead of the game.

I dont think amps will be gone anytime soon, its like Vinyl there will always be interest. Also Modellers, Profilers and Sims, all require Amps to replicate. People will start making original "Amp sims" but there will always be someone making amps, and its all based on analog sounds anyway. Also Nu tube tech will extend Tube amp production, I can also see transistor amps becoming more popular as some people will always just prefer analog (even if it is placebo) and I can see Transistor amps becoming "cool" because of that. I tell you what I do see happening, a split in the digital world between things trying to recreate analog sounds, and things that are new and actually push the sonic characteristics of guitar into new territory (I use Pedal boards with analog and digital pedals, tube amps, transistor amps , record with amp sims and IRs I will use it all)

The reality is that an amp , especially a tube amp is also a function of the “speaker” that is within it. 8/16 ohm, tube choices are another factor that “sound” is ultimately influenced. A pedal chain setup and how a particular sound is accomplished is also matter of taste. If someone designs a plugin where you can set the various “options” you are still in a sterile environment of digital vs analog. There’s a reason people are gravitating back to analog hardware.. it’s a tactile process that’s not the instant gratification of digital but rather subtle and more personal experience.

I'm an old fart who grew up listening to classic rock thru Marshall's and its in my blood until I die. I've owned a couple modeling amps and it wasn't the same. Fast forward 10 years and Korg puts out a pedal that I love. Technology keeps getting better and it will eventually kill off the amps of my generation. I will never part with my analog gear if I can help it

I agree and hope you're right. I'm a drummer now, but started as a guitar player coming of age in the 90s. Back then it was all about the usual, Zep, Hendrix, Pearl Jam. I bought a Strat to be like Hendrix, a Les Paul because of Page, and a JCM900 for both. I knew the sound of Marshall and Fenders very well. Fast forward almost 30yrs, I have an entire library of drums kits via SD3 to play on my EKit that I can play at all hours in my stacked townhouse, to jam with my friends all over the internet via Elk Live. When I set my guitar player up with Amplitude 5 and loaded up the Mesa Boogie Duel Rectifier, my computer and tech illiterate friend immediately recognized the sound of his amp, and we replaced his real pedal board with virtual ones. I do recognize the sound of a real amp is great, and as a sound tech, I also know that folks using VIs and Virtual pedal boards and relying on a venues monitor system can be lacklustre. That being said, with tech constantly improving, quieter stages, resulting in a better presentation of the artists music for the performer and audience is going to continue to be a win win for everyone. I know how awful it's been when my 6000 watt PA system was trying to push vocals up over a kid with a 50 tube amp on 8. It never ends well.

It’s all genre dependent. I’ve had all sorts of modelers and profilers and now I use the UA OX for my ruff tracking or quick tracking and I think it’s great. BUT I rely on the interplay of my tube amps for notes that move into feed back and the like. Sims, modelers and profilers are great convenience which if history proves right. Convenience trumps quality. I’ll be keeping all my amps.

This thinking has been going on since the Solid State 70's. Since Digital 80's. Tubes are here forever because a great tube amp is always desirable. In 10 years diy'ers will build everything they want if they can't find it, and tubes will be manufactured. If tubes were going to die out it would have happened by now. Tubes are like vinyl. Simple and sweet!

I'm a relatively young guitarist and producer and i have amp sims (anyone remember the jamvox?) to thank for being able to make a living out of it, amp sims are absolutely the way to go for 99% of people getting into guitar or producing. That being said as i refine my taste and workflow i decided to invest in a few real tube amps that interest me and make sense with my settings and production style (,Ac15,Bassman,Dr50,ampeg b2) and even though i'll probably add some flavour of Marshall someday or one of those rare bizzaro old solid state 60's vox amps if i ever get the chance, i don't plan to use anything beyond that and irs for the rest of my life. The technical limitations of analog gear are enormous compared to software for very little benefit if any, but i came to find out that amp sims simply didn't fit within my artistic expression and process, and as silly as it sounds the hum of a switched on tube amp and the smell of heating dust does. You simply have to ask yourself what makes sense for you and for the vast majority of people sims are obviously the way.For example i'm the other way around for synths, people still buy hardware synths all the time whereas i simply plan to stick with UVI's Falcon forever, but i get that hardware synths will still be around for the same reason tube amps will.

For recording I agree Barry, the SW/modelers etc getting soooo good. I recently sold my Helix Rack once I discovered tonex and amplitube and neural!

1ms. When you can have a fully processed guitar sound from a modeling or profiling device in under 1ms, analog gear will start to wind down. Tubes still have true zero latency and will always feel/sound better than anything that any A/D converter/chipped based unit can currently produce.

The thing with digital profiles is that they sound great because they are a capture of an awesome sounding real amp. When there are no more real amps we'll have nothing to capture and emulate. We'll just have the old profiles. This doesn't like a great future to me. But maybe something will fill the gap when we get to that place?

I've yet to hear any software that can even come close to emulating a Fryette amp and the sheer brilliance of their tube amps. Perhaps one day, but until that day I'll be sticking with the real thing.

I just moved from an apartment down stairs without an elevator and into a condo. I can’t play my big boys at home: Vox AC30, Matchless HC30 + Matchless 2x12, Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier + Mesa 4x12, Marshall JTM45 + 1960bx cab, and a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. Moving those alone was absolutely miserable and take up half of an entire room. On the last trip was I was “god I just need an Axe FX III…”

Digital equipment is like a hologram of a real thing. It will never be the same. There is just something in the sound and feel that can't be replicated. Like Hammond organ for example, or vinyl records, analog photography and real books vs eReader.

Well I had the Axe Fx3 then Kemper and finally Quad Cortex and I think they are great amp wannabes, but they are just not my thing, I sold them all and got back to tube amps, nothing beats the feel of a great amp and analog pedals, not talking about amp in the room, but how you can manipulate the tone when playing live which is something I couldn’t do with those devices, love the portability tho, but for that I got a Victory V40 with a two notes capture x and you are set, my take on the subject.

I worked at a major label in the 90s when downloads came in, I watched the RIAA come in and sue fans, because they were scared, it was madness. They weren’t innovators, it took Steve Jobs and later Daniel Ek to bail out the labels even with them kicking and screaming. Is there a parallel, well,no.. But I had to think forward and leave my label job in 2001 because I saw the future, and foresight, is something that comes with expertise. I agree that amps will likely change, I don’t necessarily think they will go away, but I do see companies like Fender doubling down on their ToneMaster series, especially as tubes become needlessly obsolete save for Guitar Amps and their gross environmental impact. I love my old Fender Black and Silverfaces and Marshall’s,but for 400 bucks I can get profiles of every amp I’ve wanted to play.. I’ll never get rid of my tube amps, but I don’t see me buying new ones. Great video Barry.

Electric guitar transmits human emotion. The gear needs to support this and not mask it. If it doesn’t inspire the player, then guitar music will fade away.

I completely agree with you. The difference between the modelers and a real tube amp is so slight now and the price difference is so vast that tube amps will be at best relegated to a minimal place in the landscape. The overwhelming majority of people - including guitar players - cannot tell the difference in a blind test of what is a real amp and what is not. And for everyone who is going to respond "I can definitely tell" - no you can't and I don't believe you. World class professional guitarists are using modelers in the studio, live on tour, and in their home recordings, and that is going to continue to increase because it is so much easier, cheaper, and basically no significant difference.

There's a reason A-list session players in Nashville and LA use valve amps on stage and in the studio, I'm thinking Tom Bukovac, Michael Landau, Guthrie Trapp, Shawn Tubbs, Steve Lukather etc. shy away from modelling technology. These guys get the best tones in the world. Similarly A list touring guitarists, John Mayer, Derek Trucks, Joe Bonamassa have a wall of valve amps for a reason. A simple AC 15, Princeton or modern small valve head like a Victory Sherriff will be superior to all of the 'virtual' options a Kemper gives.

Most people today are just recording music, the live show thing is becoming more like the vinyl collecting niche. As a result, the majority are looking for a cheap and easy way to just plug a guitar into a laptop and "sound like" the real thing. Go to a live rock or metal show where the band is using stacks and all and then go see a band with a laptop running everything into FOH and there is just a difference. Not so much a sound difference (although it's there to an extent) but the overall SHOW experience. I think one possible direction is that as amps are getting smaller (amp-in-a-pedal) yet there is still a need for loud speakers the FOH may get more under the control of the band (instead of amp plus cabinet stacks it's amp-pedal plus PA speaker cabs brought by the band). The demise of the live local music scene is what is partly to blame for the current trends. But like everything else from shopping to employment searching to whatever, as the technology gets "better" the end result generally gets crappier. What really needs to happen is the tube amps themselves need to get smaller and more affordable, and the speaker cabs need to get better and more like PA systems so the venue isn't in control of the band's sound. Say no to being a human jukebox for someone else's budget goals.

Haven’t watched the whole episode, but from what I did watch, I don’t see any acknowledgement of the key fact that a tube amp is half of the guitar/amp instrument. Everything you’re saying about what we refer to as replacement tech has been said before. Thanks for the inspiration to present a real-world alternate viewpoint. We’ll link to yours for context. Love your work. Let’s talk!

Been saying this for the last 4 years. We're pretty much there but within the next two years they'll be able to replicate every conceivable aspect of the real amps.

Bought a Line 6 DL4 pedal and the moment it failed onstage it was removed from my pedal chain, amps are the same thing, if a firmware problem or latency from virtual instruments happens it's dead in the water, as exactly why I will play tube or solid state equipment

Well, it makes sense. I’m selling my mk II c+ simulclass with reverb and eq. The new technology is affordable so I’m only asking about $600. Or best offer

i have a quilter superblock us that's an analog-but-tubeless amp that's about as loud as a princeton. it sounds great! the digital stuff hasn't sounded as good with delay etc. in front of the amp but i'm sure it will get there.

I' m still gonna rock a handwired ac30.

Great channel content Barry! I love my old school 1x12 combo tube amps, but am excited to go digital for a lot of recording in the next few years. This is an amazing time for all kinds of gear 👍

Let me start by saying,this is just my opinion..I love modeling..I own an AxeFXIII,and I owned a Helix for a few years..but..I also have a few tube amps..I like and use both..Modeling and profiling have gotten very good,but I personally don’t think tube amps are going to disappear…ever…If I had a dollar for every time someone said “tube amps are dead”,I would be rich….Dave Friedman is selling amps as fast as he can build them..Tube amps,in my opinion will never go away…as good as profiling and modeling is,it’s still not 100 percent the same….Just my opinion,and I get your point..

I can see in a live situation I'm a venue amps not needed as much today,. but outside of that you still have to keep up with the drums . Either outdoor gigs (especially without a PA), or just rehearsals. Plus grabbing a loud combo amp is pretty convenient for jams. I can see modelings getting better, or more pedal platform amp. The Gamma G50 is a fantastic combo for not a lot of money. It's basically sold as a platform pedal platform amp, with the option to just use the built in drives. Extremely loud solid state amp. Plus I just don't think people just don't want to get rid of their amps. Also big name players can have a great influence on the market. You also have to remember that bass guitar was suppose to be on it's way out back in the 80"s with the popularity of synth bass. The grunge scene help Keep it on the map. You'll also have trends and nostalgia keeping things alve. Recently vinyl outsold CD's.

I just use my Line 6 HELIX. I went through the Multi -Amps! plus PEDALS?... for what I do for "COVERS" It works! :)

I had three guitar amps in 2020, and last month I sold my last one because I had to be honest with myself. People have to work quickly and get projects done, and there's pretty minimal sacrifice using amp sims instead of a real amp at this point. I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze anymore using real amps.

I’ve gone fully midi running wet/dry/wet through ableton running benson mixwave amp vst / Neural Tone King Vst / Bias. I run it from my laptop and a midi switcher, it’s super light and portable whilst giving the front of house engineer complete control with the dry signal and when you are on in ear monitors you don’t notice the difference between the silent rig and the amp other than having to deal with more bleed in your mix which isn’t helpful. Plugins are the way forward because unlike the Quad cortex/Helix/Kemper you aren’t limited to one companies version of the “chorus” the “reverb” you can get whatever plugins you like the sound of. And the latency is so unnoticeable anyways so no difference there. If I was to start out, just go midi and get free plugins and ir loader.

I use digital modellers to blend to taste with my tube gear. I also think analog modellers sound good. But I just fixed my Mig100h, the clicks of the tubes warming upp, the smell of the heat, the sag and superpower…

Barry, once again you deliver a thoughtful and down to earth perspective that challenges my way of thinking and makes me think in a new way! Thank you for your videos!

Having something like a Helix and in ear monitoring is going to assist so many gigging guitarists- less to lug around, consistent sound and so on. However- you don't get the same interaction as a guitar in front of a loud amp. I can get this with my pod through my studio speakers if they're turned up enough, but I generally think a guitar and amp should be speaking to each other- it's a two way thing. Not so good for the old tinnitus though... :)

You've been right so far so...

I think younger guys/girls are definitely looking into the real deal amps. They just can’t afford it right now. But at some point they will be well established and they will be able to afford it and they will most definitely buy it. You are also assuming most people will remain to be young and broke.

Respectfully, you are wrong. They may fade on stages due to expense and logistics, but they will never fade from the studio. Nothing sounds better than a good tube amp.

I know YOU know! :) Anyways just random comments from me. Amps kind of go with "rock" music which according to some RU-vidrs is "dead"..extinct. I can put tracks out there using Guitar Rig and not even my guitar player friends can tell I didn't use an amp. But I can!! :) And it never feels right under the fingers unfortunately.Having said that I'm not into cheap solutions. So I will likely get the Fryettte load/re-amp box sometime soon to use with IRs. I also have a summer home with an amp room which is even better.

I know that you're probably right with the speed of technology these days but I'll never sell my tube amps. Like you I've collected them over the years, I have way more than I could ever use, but I love each of them for their unique character. I've enjoyed the hunt for them and learned enough in the process of restoring them to build three from scratch. Even so, I have to admit that most of my recording is done using the Universal Audio OX. I've also ordered the Tonex. Isn't it great that we live in a time when we can enjoy tube amps, modeling, and Impulse responses all at once.

Saying tube amps will go extinct is like saying harpsichord will go extinct or classical guitar! The sound captures the era and 60,s-80,s rock will require that classic sound because it will be the new “classical” era

Hey Barry, I came across your channel here on RU-vid just a few days ago and I've watched a few of your videos and I have to say that...I LOVE WHAT YOU DO! This particular video about the Kemper, Tonex etc was absolutely great and it made me subscribe directly!! I'm a tube amp lover and owner but I do believe that it will become a thing of the past unfortunately!! Anyway....keep up the great work and keep on doing what you're doing......It's cool!!

What's funny to me is if you look at home audio trends tubes are really popular right now

I agree same way old radios were going for thousands of dollars. When that generation passed away they were selling for almost nothing . The nostalgia was lost in the newer generation

Barry, with all due respect, I agree with you 😉

Another thing is that tubes will get more and more expensive, rendering a tube amp insanely expensive to maintain.

I do not know that I think tube or real amps will ever go away, just become more scarce. What I am concerned with is that as they become less prevalent, will the real tones of these amps slowly evade us? What I mean is, as we become further removed from experience with the real amps, will the models drift from being realistic? I have a Helix, it is a good unit for what it is, but the few amps in the unit that I have real world experience with, the models don't represent them well. Peavy 5150. Mesa Dual Rec, Bogner Uberschall, Marshall JCM 800 and a tad with the SLO 100, they just aren't accurate but I am able to get usable tones for live uses and in some cases recording. It does take quite a bit more work than I would do with the real amp. I also have a Fractal FM9 (and an Axe Fx II) those same models are 95 or greater % (actually closer in the FM9) to those amps, with the exception of the Uber, I just cant get it to do the do. The SLO in FAS is pretty spot on tone wise but the real amp has this percussive kind of hit at the front of the note that no digital model has been able to cop. One thing to mention about the difference between L6 & FAS is not only is FAS more accurate but many of the amps are plug and play, meaning you can treat them like you would the real one, vs having to do extra work that is necessary with the Helix. That may be am unpopular opinion but I am willing to bet 90% or more that disagree are Helix users who have never really played or heard a FAS unit beyond a RU-vid video. Where my experience with FAS is that they are accurate representations of my experience with the real amp to the point I can trust that the other models are there as well, and my experience with Line 6 is they are not as accurate but I am able to get good tones, will it get to the point that we are using a model of something like say a Diezel Herbert sounds nothing like the real thing? I know the idea is, if the tone is good then what does it matter and I agree but is it at the risk that we may lose the magic of some of these amps because no one has used the real thing? Especially as the designers of modeling implement things like idealized versions of amps. An example being a Mesa Mark, with the tone stack being pre-distortion they can be a bear to dial in, so an idealized version may account for that, especially since most people don't know how to dial them in, this may result in a good sounding amp model, but in the end you may lose the magic of what makes those amps so damn cool.

indeed

The Tone-X is already on the way out. Welcome the Neural Amp Modeller, baby!

After working all day in front of a computer, I just want to plug in and play. That’s why I kept my amp. That said, when I want to find a different sound, I use my software and create a profile. Both sides have value, but I’ll never buy another amp.

I have a axefx ii+ and 6 tube amps, I use my Fractal to practice or record a amp I don’t have. I’ll use my tube amps for recording purposes primarily, with my Captor X it makes it a breeze to record silently. I’ll practice more with my solid states and Axe-Fx.

Barry I can't wait for you to do the new Waves subscription video

"When you can get amazing powerful tools that cannot hold you back with anything, and it's incredibly affordable, why anybody choose to go that other route." The thing is, us, guitar players are after particular sounds, particular tones (brands/models, if you will - and tones, associated with those): it's that particular amp sound (two, at most - one for clean, one for gain) / same is for pedals: it's that particular chorus (whether it's MXR Blue, or Boss or TC, whatever, it's that particular overdrive... ), so unless you are a beginner producer / engineer, who needs the most he can get for the least amount money possible, the other two hundred whatever simulations that the modelling unit offers, go pretty much useless. It might be exciting at first, having all of those options, being able to tweak the sound the way you want - and you think that you really want to tweak the sound that far: that's just psychology for the most part - but it goes away pretty quickly and you get back to your basic needs and requirements as a guitarist. Now, that being said, modelling units or things like that are gonna be considerably more affordable than if you'd buy those individual units of gear of your choice, so money definitely play a role in that regard, however, no modelling unit, no matter how great and convincing it is, is gonna give you that feeling of owning that particular whatever thing you've wanted to have. And so, in that regard, if, of course, someone cares for such things and can afford it, he or she, I think, will most likely choose to go "that other route"...

I use a line 6 Pod go on stage with in ear monitors, using my iPhone to give me my mix. For recording, I’ll use Amplitube Max because it has every amp sound I could ever want. Do I like a real Marshall stack or mesa boogie MKlll or an ac30 or fender twin? Of course but I’m not rich either nor do I have a big studio like the good ole days (as they say) to record those amps nice and loud. Technology is great with all the things we can do now but there is magic, feeling and a vibe with the real thing. Just my 2 cents. Btw I enjoy and appreciate the honesty in your videos, thank you.

I'm actually glad that the software is getting so close to the real thing. For one, it makes it easier to make demos. But my hope is that it also means vintage amps will get cheaper. I think with how powerful AI is becoming, it's only a matter of time before there's an emergent counterculture that rejects all this technology. You'll see a niche set of artists and fans embracing analog is all aspects of their lives. There will still be some layers of technology, no one can escape it entirely. But there will be a shift. I plan on catering to those people to a certain degree. I probably will never track to tape, because tapes a major PIA. But I will build my outboard gear, and more importantly try to build a massive arsenal of real instruments. Will they be obsolete? Absolutely. But for the artists that don't want to just tell an AI what kind of song they want to write, it'll be the best fit for their needs.

i think for us older guys and gals amps will never go out of style. nothing beats the sound of a 4 by 12 rig. the tim Henson's of today just open up a laptop at a gig. i also think there will be kids who rebel technology and go back to amps. but who knows. i personally don't like plug ins. i stopped buying them when i realized how noisy they are without a noise gate. without a noise gate they are useless but not my amps. my tsl 100 marshall with gain knob all the way up is a little noisy but still much less noisy than a plug in. i hope your wrong but your probably right. amps rule.

I guess it will work out like it did with digital photography. Digital has replaced classical for the most part, but there are still (and will be) a small number of aficionados that will stay analog.

More than extent I’d say EXTINCT !!!🎉❤💪🏻💪🏻

Enjoy your subscription models!

Tube amps can’t be replaced by plugins. Plugins are not sexy. I‘ve just bought an Engl Fireball 25 for live gigs, I‘m 44 y.o. I‘ve just sold my Kemper. I can use the direct out if the Engl use the power soak it comes with and record silently…

2 words, Synergy Amps

IMO... - tube amps will become low sale boutique, nostalgia items - low cost solid state amps will remain, for practice, etc. - modelers (my definition a device where the manufacturer creates/controls the content) will die off - profilers (hardware now, likely apps/.vst's in the future) will have the longest staying power, because the community can make the content, which creates a symbiotic relationship between the device and content.

This is a silly take, Barry. The same was said about vinyl and look where we are now. It's our job as older musicians to keep young folks informed about classic gear and especially tube amps. Modeling will never ever be as good. Not a chance. It's all about the way the air moves with a speaker. And I'm not sure if we need to have a drinking game for every time you say TONEX. Again, this channel is turning into an infomercial channel and that bums me out.