Guys, I'm Worried - THE FINAL SHAPE 

I quit Destiny and deleted my characters a few months ago and my life has genuinely been on the uprise ever since but I do still miss PvP in this game on rare occasion. When I saw prismatic, it really seemed to me like they were sending off D2 by breaking the game completely. If abilities didn't exist in PvP, Destiny would probably go down as one of the best and most fun PvP games of all time behind Halo. Getting frozen 4 times in my last PvP game a few months back was the frustration that ultimately brought me to my freedom.

Dude I'm a grown man and I *still* do the "go down the line" thing with the soda fountain at a restaurant

I've never been able to recognize what other players are wearing/carrying, heck, most of the time I'm not even sure what class they're playing till it's too late. So I guess Prismatic in PVP will feel just as confusing as the previous 9 years.

Hard disagree on this one TV. Both prismatic and the exotic cloaks do not commit to the fullest to whatever a given class or exotic perk can provide on their own. It's a mixture made more for PvE synergy and buildup You could make a case that classes would need one or two things to make them more distinct (apart from class abilities) but still. It's a decade old game. The cage needs to be shaken as much as possible.

I'm not worried about it at all. Also, theres alot of things still that are seperated to classes so I feel like even with prismatic theres still a defined Warlock, Hunter and Titan kit thats only available to those classes.

Bungie blurring the lines like Bob Ross. Except at the end, the picture that’s revealed is gonna be Rick Astley’s face or something. 😂

I 100% agree. i could write a novel on the damage i think 3.0 subclasses did to class identity and am very much looking at prismatic with caution. like we all know pairing Lightning Surge with Arcane Needle is gonna be busted, that it'll need to be curbed in some way. Is that curb gonna be just a nerf to LS's effectiveness? Will that nerf just punch Arc Warlock further down the meta totem pole? I mean look at Storm Grenades, once my favorite grenade I now haven't used in years because Bungie gave it to the absolutely busted Arc Titan, had to nerf it within acceptable parameters with Touch of Thunder, but now near worthless to the other two classes. They GUTTED Arc Web for the Jolt verb, you also mentioned Devour and Heal Nades; lit goes on. As a Warlock main, i feel robbed.

I agree with this. I, personally, wanted a 3rd Darkness power. We have 3 Light, 2 Dark, and 1 Hybrid subclass. I think Prismatic should have come later. But yes, I also totally agree that the classes need to stay different and unique. Making everyone the same will just make the game boring and uninteresting. Warlocks need their space magic. Titans need their fists. Hunters need their knives. Don’t mess with perfection

I think bungie is doing this as a test. If destiny 3 ever comes I don’t think there will be different classes just one with massive customisation. They know most player one play one class they even said a week ago. The game feels so different when you play a class you never have and a lot of people are missing out on that. Making it one makes it easier for casual gamers to come and go

I was a middle tree solar warlock main before solar 3.0 who heavily leaned into the support aspect by keeping my team healed with my grenades and dropping lunafaction empowering rifts for my team and I while taking advantage of benevolent dawn (which actually worked with empowering rift. No clue why ember of benevolence doesn't work for empowering rift, but works for healing rift.). Once solar 3.0 came out, that playstyle was completely gutted, as now I didn't have the versatility of being able to use my grenade for offense or support, based off of the situation (and no way to hasten my rift regen, as heat rises didn't heal at the time, and ember of benevolence STILL doesn't work with empowering rift). This has been improved with the change that heat rises releases a healing burst around you, but its nowhere near as useful as just charging a healing grenade was. Bungie has effectively killed that playstyle, as now I cannot effectively heal my team, let alone heal them outside of whatever range heat rises has now, without leaning even further into the support role and equipping lumina and boots of the assembler, which strays too far from the hybrid supportive/offensive playstyle with lunafactions that I had so much fun using. There's a moment that happened to me with a friend years ago that I still haven't forgotten where he gets hit with a silence and squall, is frozen in the ice tornado, breaks out of the ice, and the exact instant he broke out, I hit him with a healing grenade, full healing him and just BARELY allowing him to escape the storm with a sliver of health left. While he was escaping, I had been in a lunafaction rift and had sniped the hunter who had thrown the super with my zealot's reward, and we both ended up surviving the engagement, despite the fact that he was frozen stuck in a silence and squall. Is the game more balanced without the ability to charge a healing grenade that instantly fully heals anyone who touches it AND gives an overshield or have 100% uptime on empowering rifts? Probably, but it was just an unfortunate casualty of the decision to allow everyone to do everything, with certain things being slightly better for certain classes. I would never have been able to keep my friend alive in the tornado with the godawful heat rises healing burst, or even a touch of flame boosted healing grenade. Previously, if you wanted to play a support role, middle tree dawn was the best option, but now, outside of the infamous well of radiance super, any class can have effectively the same level of support outside of specifically lumina and boots of the assembler, as they can just throw on healing grenade. Instead of a supportive subclass able to buff and heal teammates from long ranges, I either get a weaker healing grenade than middle tree solar that provides no offensive capabilities or I'm locked to using a specific exotic pairing.

I miss when the Darkness was actually the Darkness. Like it’s cool that they’re finally adding a new enemy type but damn I was always interested by the shadow figures hinted at in the lore. I feel like the darkness would be way more threatening if they were actually on the ships

I don't really think we're losing Class Identity at all, I think those identities are just changing. Playing either of the classes still feels distincly unique and I think that will be futher enhanced with Prismatic because each Class will have a unique Trancendance skill and even though some of the triats are shared the Exotic class items do still have unique rolls that you can only get on a specific class.

It get how you feel but I just went down a rabbit hole to find out what class the drifter was. Turns out guardians have access to all abilities, any guardians can utilize suppressor nades or trip mines. The guardians are just becoming more lore accurate now. We were never supposed to be shoe horned it one class or a certain playstyle. The game really needed this because of how stale it was getting. My only complaint is them nerfing well and bubble.

My super quick 2 cents: 1. I think it lines up better with lore that you can wield the Light and Darkness in any way. Like the Hunter who learned a kind of shoulder charge (I may be misremembering the details). So I think it's just us becoming more powerful and intelligent. 2. Destiny has always been about embracing the new and leaving the past where it was. So those days of clarity between classes and subclasses, are just a thing of the past. We enjoyed them, and now the times they are a-changing.

I like the way they’ve mixed classes and the individualism is still there in the aspect those tell you how the classes are intended to be played the gadgets are just gadgets

The PvP is already unbalanced as is imo. I don't mind them breaking it completely with Final Shape. CHOAS REIGNS

When everybody's special, nobody is special.

I get your concerns but personally I feel like prismatic warlock looks beyond boring at best. Most of the aspects are set and forget abilities and the only one that gives an active playstyle is more than likely a death sentence in PvE even with devour. I liked the idea of the Titan having those combos available for priming and detonating, and the whole Hunter thing with being a mobile slayer deploying a ton of tools and movement abilities. Warlock is just “how many useless buddies can I have at once.” Even bleak watcher is garbage tbh. Why would I wait for it to slowly freeze enemies when any other grenade will outright kill them and be recharged quickly enough to throw another? Even the super choices are wild. Needlestorm is the only genuinely decent one on the roster and the “new” solar super and aspect are just reskins of old abilities. Idk, it just feels like warlock stuff is always an afterthought. Hell, even the class specific swords back in the day proved it clearly. Warlocks just got a regular sword while hunters and titans got brand new variants. It’s gotten old now and I’m tired of waiting for something cool. They could’ve combined other aspects to make us glass cannons or long ranch apocalypse bringers but hey who wants that when our brains can rot with zero engagement in our kits? Who wants a shiny new super when we can get a reskin of the one that people only used for self-res? Who wants a new solar ability when we can just have an orange arc soul? You know? It’s just tiring. We will still be relegated to Well regardless of any nerfs it’s gotten anyways. Probably fully switching to Titan now, it’s looking tons more engaging, the new super looks awesome, and they got hand held supernova on steroids so I don’t see the point in even playing warlock anymore. Tbh I can’t wait till they delete classes so they can actually look at how many people will abandon warlock specific abilities. Their “buffs” the both novas don’t actually do anything to solve the problems either variant has and I seriously doubt any prismatic warlock will ever take needstorm off anyways (slowva is just a terrible version of needlestorm lol). I don’t like sounding negative but idk it’s hard not to with how disappointing it feels. Just like a huge missed opportunity for a super active and engaging playstyle. I could even forgive the reskins if prismatic warlock looked even a smidge engaging and fun.

It feels like bungie have ran out of good ideas for subclasses so have stirred the pot rather than added new ingredients. Or they needed a sub class fast and this was the quickest way to achieve that. Not long to wait now to see how it turns out

Good vid! For me abilities after subclass 3.0 just totally burnt me out on abilities in pvp. I value gunplay over abilities so OG. Checkmate & my favorite Hardware playlist pvp has been a welcomed sight. However in final shape abilities in pvp are going to be world class broken like we have never seen. So I will stay away from regular pvp & play hardware playlists when it's in rotation.

I don’t know if you’ve heard about the leaks, but there have been leaks about a D3, and supposedly there is going to be only one class, so no titan hunter warlock. It seems like bungie is moving in that direction with this. But I do agree that now it’ll be really hard to tell what abilities and exotics each player is running in threes let alone sixes. Like if you see someone on solar hunter, you know they’re likely to have a one shot weighted knife. Or against an arc titan that they have a shoulder charge or an arc warlock with lightning surge. One way for this to not be as much of an issue in competitive modes at least like trials is to have the screen where you see what load out people are running include the aspects and abilities and both parts of the exotic class item. This would also work well with locked loadouts, at least for abilities and exotics

From the rpg mind-set, think of it as years of experiences. The medic taught you some first aid, you get a healing nade. The sneaky guy taught you invis, the demo expert trips... i get the hard to read in pvp, but as someone who also likes to pretend its me on the screen, i've learned so cool new tricks over the years!

And let's be honest, Bungie was lying about wanting players to identify enemy exotics on the field. That was a cop out to keep selling ornaments. Plenty of ornaments COMPLETELY mask the design profile of their exotic, like that one for Synthoceps that just looks like standard slim armor.

With copeium on my side, I’d like to think less that we’re losing subclasses, and more that we’re consolidating into how a singlular species uses the light/dark. This would copefully be to prepare for when there is a Destiny that has players of all Species in the system, each with their own “class(es)” of light/dark.

I just find it absurd that they're doing all of this, but Arc Warlocks still can't blink, and can't Icarus Dash outside of Solar, even with Prismatic. But Hunters can skip, dodge, do cartwheels AND use Warlock Blink all damn day. Titans have their dodge AND shoulder charge mobility. Warlocks can awkwardly float and that's it. So I guess class identity is... jumping abilities, except when Hunters steal them from other classes without explanation.

during class 3.0 they basically gave every thing that made warlock unique and gave it to everyone else and yet everything still remained distinct. i think we'll be fine.

I think you’ve hit on an important point. In pvp I would prefer to have more restrictions on abilities including modes in which there are no abilities or no exotics.

I'm honestly okay with it. As a Warlock main, I like the idea of being able to step into other class play styles, I would go as far as to say the rollout of this is to prepare for Destiny 3, which will probably be classless, and everyone will just be a "Guardian"

Speaking to my experience and why I’m less concerned about this. I pretty much play all classes and just kind of play what I feel like doing that day. Prismatic is more just saving me a trip to the change character screen.

I used to strongly agree with the sentiment that bungie needed to stop taking tools from one class and giving it to the rest. However, I now I see it as a to let other classes have the basic tools, but not have the full power of those tools unless they switch to the other class. Everyone can now use void overshield, void detonators, invisibility, devour, healing grenades, ember of benevolence, solar burn, trip mines, arc web, ionic traces, etc, but the original class can typically access it the easiest and is the most efficient with it.

By giving all the grenades or exotic to all the classes, class identity isn’t going to die. The main part of a class, their subclasses, are still unique to their classes. Unless a hunter is going to thundercrash or throw a nova, class identity is still there and all classes are unique. It’s so stupid that people blame subclass 3.0 for “ruining” class identity. Class identity is still there and will never go away.

Well if you heard about the leaks for destiny 3, there are no classes there. They're blurring the line now to warm us up to the idea of just letting us use whatever we want

The thing I like the most about the first Destiny game was it felt like it had an identity. Every part of the game contributed to it. It was concrete and consistent. Destiny 2 feels like it loses that more and more with each expansion.

Ever since subclass 3.0 when I saw so many warlock aspects get gutted just so that other classes would have them I've been worried about it.

100%. You're spot on here. I think they've chosen to expand in a more skill based direction where everyone mostly has access to the same skills, you differentiate your character by the combination you choose. There's tradeoffs for sure and overall Bungie has definitely way improved buildcrafting by giving us so many options and by normalizing so many abilities, but I really miss the stronger class definitions as well. Prismatic seems fun, but I don't see how they're not constantly power creeping stuff if it hangs around for the long term. I dunno if I'll still play Destiny after the Final Shape, but I definitely won't without a new direction for classes and skills.

I 100% agree with you that we are losing class identity. I personally think they still don't know what to really do with Warlocks and they never should have given us rift as the class ability. As for PvP i gave up on it awhile ago and just haven't been able to enjoy it in quite some time.

Definitely agree with this. Class and subclass identity was always one of the main draws of Destiny for me, and blurring those lines just doesn’t sound very appealing imo. I was always a Hunter main, and the idea of a character who uses tricky tactics and gadgets, and quick gun skill is so cool to me, so idk if I love the idea of classes sharing attributes with the exotic class items and such. But who knows, maybe I’ll dig it, time will tell. All that said, prismatic does look very fun

I'm not gonna give out the specifics, but that new titan barrier shield, is gonna be nuts. Frostbolt, Grenader Jake thought bastion was a problem, just wait.....😂😂😂😂

I’ve always been more of a PvP player, but for me, it’s been more of a matchmaking issue. In my opinion, PvP is the most fun when metas shift drastically because it levels the playing field with everyone being lost with what’s the best and what sucks. Back in D1, the community was still getting used to how the game played to an extent, but now it’s faster paced, and players have gotten really good at snowballing matches. That increases the skill gap to a point where even average skill players(like myself) struggle to learn anything from lost engagements. It’s kinda like having a decent high school athlete compete against a decent college athlete. The high school athlete isn’t necessarily bad, they’re actually really good compared to the general public, but compared to the college athlete, they stand little chance. The skill gap has become so large, that match quality varies drastically from game to game. I honestly don’t think there is a matchmaking system that fixes the problem though. I would love to see Bungie take some inspiration from other games and invest in some AI for private matches. That way, it serves as a training ground of sorts. You want to challenge yourself, try taking on 6 max level bots solo. Maybe you’re trying to learn how a map plays, go practice in a 1v1 environment to learn sight lines and where head glitches and stuff are. I understand it would be a big ask, but honestly, private matches have so much potential, that other than a forge mode of sorts, it has the most potential for replay ability IMO. Just thought I’d share my thoughts😂

Lore accurate light barers only defining line between Titan, Hunter, and Warlock is mindset. Like, canonically a Hunter learned to Blink because a Warlock taught them. Class/subclass identity makes no sense tbh

2 exotic weapons at once or even 3 would be peak game power fantasy. I been dreaming for years for a change like that, imagine the possibilities

Its kind of nice to hear this because most people aren't too concerned bc of the gameplay fun, but to me it's always been bits of character and immersion/fantasy like this that actually make me want to play. Losing those things kills a lot of my interest no matter how fun the gameplay might be. Now, I don't think prismatic wrecks that, but things like the grenades i definitely feel.

They probably aren't that worried about Crucible anyway, since the diehards will diehard as always. Prismatic is just going to make it much easier for even casuals to start Soloing/clearing Lost Sectors, and other content w/ Champions, by equiping certain elemental nades/melees to stun them without sacrificing their DPS Super/Weapons. For day 1 sweats and the buildmasters they will feel even more powerful, and across the board everyone will feel less inclined to equip a weapon matching the season barrier/unstoppable/overload mods. They failed class/role identity a long time ago. Like Light 3.0 or whatever, when Resilience got Buffed, Recovery was buffed/good before, and Mobility is/was so bad even a 100 Mob stat Hunter w/ Stompies was able to lose the race to lane because of Shoulder Charge/Warlock (Icarus?) Dash.

I've heard a lot of speculation predicting that if we get a Destiny 3 (or whatever it may be called) that they might ditch the idea of classes all together and just make global elemental classes. Like instead of having Warlock or Titan, or Voidwalker or Sentinel, We would just have "Elental affinity: Void". I dont really like the idea of destroying class identity more than they did with 3.0, but if they do a fresh start theres a pretty good chance they will do something fresh.

I started playing exclusively Hunter about 4 years ago, I don't even touch warlock or Titan.... At the time I was a freak and made fun of, but surprisingly I'm part of a building minority. I think Bungie notices this and notices that the player base is getting older and doesn't have time to keep up on three characters... They're slowly blending everything together and honestly I'm okay with it. I've come to peace with it a long time ago.

while i see your point there is definetly exculsivity still in each subclass, warlocks do devour healing and abbilty regen on all minor abblites better then anyone else, statis locks freeze everything statis titans shattter everything, warlocks are threadling focused, hunters are unravling focused and titans are warding focused, titans have easy access to void shields where others dont, there is unqiueness in the subclasses but there is not in unquie abilities but rather specializations in parts of a subclass.

It definitely is worrying to think about whether it's PvE or PvP, everyone sharing everything just makes the game that big step closer to being a generic ability shooter. The other issue I've always had is as TV pointed out, class identity started to melt. Everyone lost something but as a warlock main I feel like it hurt most watching everything that made what I enjoyed cool be nerfed or even done better by the other classes while I'm left with fewer options in endgame content than both other classes. Things like Chaos Reach being left behind is still a score spot for me especially after Bungie continued to ignore it in their 7k word or so essay.

You're damn right. Since the prismatic announcement I've been very concerned about what's going to happen with the game. And especially concerned about what's going to happen in pvp. In the comments, on the forums, from destiny content creators, nowhere is anyone concerned about what the new subclass will do to the game. From each class/subclass/exotica's eidentity, to the balance in PvP. It's impossible to make a new subclass in a couple months, consisting of all subclasses and have it be balanced in PvP. It's a long and hard work, a lot of testing. But then I remembered that there's nothing surprising about it. Bungie ignores PvP players because the bulk of the players in Destiny 2, you know, just come to shoot aliens, throw around shiny abilities. The new subclass was made just for those people who saw shiny things of different colors and paid money for pre-order DLC. And for PvP players, it will be a sad experience. Even if Bungie balance the new subclass (which I doubt), the identity of each class/subclass will be lost. I'm very sad that money and reporting to Sony's final investors is such a priority for Bungie. I haven't pre-ordered anything myself, so there's no point in playing the next add-on. There will of course be a lot of articles, reviews and videos from bloggers that how awesome everything is, what a great story and a new subclass, and somewhere in the corner will be crying PvP players. Thanks for the video, I realized I'm not the only one.❤ P.S Such a large number of dislikes is expected, because the idiot who pre-ordered the add-on because of multi-colored sparkles can not think straight.

100 percent agree about being worried with prismatic. Also top that with the inevitable player decline and new players being met with crucible veteran gods. Aaaannnnd no word from Bungo about going after cheaters… The future of D2 pvp is going to be interesting

"What exotic class items will you be using in the final shape?" Am a Warlock. In PvP. So you know. None.

Most people only play 1 class so the class fantasy will just get expanded with Prismatic. As a Warlock main I will just get “more ways” to play Warlock. For people that play all classes, yeah it’s going to be all muddy. I totally agree with your PvP opinions. Every foe is going to be a “clown car” of abilities coming at you.

PvP is going to boil down to who sees who first. It’s already there for us unskilled players and now it will be there for all but the most skilled of us.

Really well put, I’ve been concerned about the same thing. Im not a fan of losing your guardians identity. I’m hoping they’ll put prismatic in a separate crucible playlist. The down side to that is thinning of population. I guess it’s a case of waiting to see how it plays out.

Im pretty sure everyone is just skipping over the fact that 'prismatic' is a hail Mary by bungie for a new subclass when they realised the communities expectations after lightfall. The entire subclass is just copy paste and I don't think it will be fresh for very long.

I just heard about synthoceps becoming available to hunters and warlocks and some other stuff and a review of prismatic and I said right after that it looks a bit like we’re beoming “A guardian” and that maybe in Destiny 3 there will be 1 class. No more 3 classes per account, just 1 guardian. Could have good and bad points but either way maybe the writing is on the wall.

Personally, I feel kind of the same way. I feel that we are losing a lot of class identity with these changes but I'm willing to give it a try. What I am worried about are rumors that say that in Destiny 3 we will no longer have class restrictions so for example hunters would be able to use nova bomb and warlocks could put up a barricade etc. I hope it doesn't go this far but we will see.

Heal clip + Worm husk+ coyote+ reload dodge is my new thing I'm looking forward to.

I would like to see the blurred lines in D3 but the ability to play as Cabal and Fallen with completely different abilities than guardians.

The gap currently between the new pvp'er and moderately skilled pvp'er is pretty big. That gap between the new and moderately skilled pvp'er is going to feel like a new player facing a 3 k/d player. It absolutely will drive new players and returning players who are more casual away from pvp. Additionally, the learning curve for a new player to enter into pvp is going to increase massively, which will in turn drive people away as it'll just be so much harder to learn how things works.

This may simplify it. When there is no identity anymore, then all Bungie has to do is concern themselves with outfits.

My main character is a titan in name only now. Aside from jumping styles, there won't be much of a reason to play on more than 1 character.

You’re worried about subclass identity, I’m worried about guardian games hunters with my titan powers. We are not the same 😂

I wonder if the chaos that is possible, like TV talked about, is a reason they chose now to start testing Hardware.

Might be an unpopular opinion, but I've felt this way since the launch of D2. I was like, why the hell do hunters have a punch now? That's a Titan thing! Where's the electricity knife. Knife + metal kinda go together. No matter how dope it is to force palm someone as an arc strider, seems like a staff and a force palm would be a warlock thing. Could go on, but I'm not going to. It's not a hard passionate opinion or anything, just something I noticed and wasn't crazy about Edit: Still fun

Class identity issues goes back from day 1 in D1. Gunplay takes 80% of the action, its a shooter after all, and gunplay is the same for everyone. They should have differentiated classes not only in their skills but on how they use guns and armor too. IMO a hunter should not be able to reach a godly defense/overshield potential or a titan be speedy as sonic on crack in any case at all. I feel they try to make everything accessible to everyone for the sake of balance but makes it way boring.

Agreed. Bungie is putting the rudder down, and pointing us to no class differentiation…and one homogeneous guardian

I think the need for innovation in the game and creativity in the playerbase is healthier for the game than the readability thats being citing. After one or two engagements you should be able to pick up on what a player is doing. And the strong effects like peregrine greaves or athris that need the readability aren't even in the class items to begin with. I would much rather every match be a little wacky with people trying new and different combinations because the game is always the most fun when there is variety in the crucible.

I empathize with the 'purest fantasy rpg' sentiment TV is trying to express here, but after years of being confined to the same gameplay loops and even constructs like 'class roles', I personally don't think it's healthy in the long run to keep trying to balance everything to the mono purest class concept. That doesn't mean you can't play that way effectively, but the way I see it, class identity is now more focused on aspect functionality in defining the 'role' of said class and their subclass/damage type expressions or 'verbs' that come with them, rather than the abilities themselves like they were in D1 and D2 up until beyond light with the introduction of Stasis and it being the first damage type to express a power fantasy with status effects. We can see this as an evolution to the older expressions of power that were purely based off of the nutral game and super of each class. Sure with the modern system those status effects now blur the lines in regards to how they effect enemies, but it's the expressions of how they are used by each class that determines the effectiveness, like Behemoth and 'shatter', or Revenant and 'slow' or Shadebinder and 'Freeze'. Sure all classes and subclasses are able to use these 'verbs' interchangeably but neither is as effective than that of the assigned role of the damge type and how the aspects of each class allows them to express that power individually. Prism allows us to build even more into those concepts with even more creative freedom, while blending damage type status effects for new ways to express aspect capabilities, and that's not even accounting for transcendence which is basically a mini super in itself, on top of the enhanced capabilities for the new and existing supers. As for the exotic class items, I personally think this is Bungies way of testing the waters for multiclass capabilities without straying too far from the primary class concepts which you see in a lot of rpgs. I can definitely see things like Prism, Transcendence, and multiclassing being something that is is going to become more refined as we go forward in D2 or even D3 if they decide to go that route.

To me, class identity went out the window a long time ago. I don’t like it, but that ship has sailed imo. We live in a sandbox where the “speed and agility” class is the slowest of the 3. I’m trying to be optimistic and say that Bungie learned from shipping Stasis and Strand, but I won’t lie, the balance is worrisome, no question. My prediction is the numbers will be great at the beginning but we will quickly end up back in the current pool of sweats and addicts in PvP.

Very true. All the classes are mashing together. Everyone has everything the other has. There's no true hunter feeling for me anymore. I'm sure the same goes for the others.

For the first month of prismatic, it will be utter chaos and confusion

I love the changes and I really think I agree with you in the PVP side. But I'm a PVE player and I feel like PVP should always be his own game because he holds down PVE by not making his stuff broken because they have to balance everything on the PVP

You have made your initial point before but each class can excel in their specialization, Devour is much easier to maintain on warlock than it is on hunter. Then what they are wearing is irrelevant especially with ornaments and often I could care less im going to wreck them regardless.

Class and subclass identity might be going away but it is getting closer to lore accurate

Yeah I’m definitely worried about every single warlock using the freeze melee and rifts… I’ve been mainly a PvP player since launch… quit the game about a month after stasis came out and watched streamers go flawless without ever firing their weapon… I’m afraid of prismatic being the new no gun skill crutch for a bunch of trolls in the PvP playlists. Please Bungie, have enough foresight not to ruin the best movement and gun-play game I’ve ever played. I’ve been gone for 3.5 years and just got back

I was very excited until they announced all the "balancing" (nerfs) to account for the mixing and matching of subclasses. I think everyone was excited based on what they know of each subclass, and everyone began theory crafting based on that. But now because everything is getting reworked, I just don't feel the same excitement. I feel like I need to find a great build from the mountain of excrement they left behind. Yeah, definitely not as excited.

This is what going out with a bang (hopefully) means. I don’t see anything after TFS unless maybe D3 sometime in the future so it’s Bungie’s last Hoorah.

Id feel bad but as a old warlock main we lost iur identity a long time ago pre 3.0. We were the ability users. Mages. Now were just support with crappy neutral game (rift)

At this point, D1 is like a candy bar just great. BUT D2 is like a bag of mostly orange starburst, with a sprinkle of microtransactions & "Free to play" for flavor😂

I shared that same sentiment in regards to class identity…but I’ve kinda settled on the feeling that Hunters will still mainly play like Hunters…Warlocks will still play like Warlocks…Titans will still Titan. Especially veteran players. It’s kinda baked in for me after 10yrs. I mean I’ve learned that I can make a Lions Mane mushroom “kinda” taste like a steak…and that’s awesome to know…but I’m still gonna steak..

I'm very excited for prismatic, it finally allows me to truly build whatever I want ...in PvE. I think Prismatic is the last nail in the coffin for PvP. Its pretty clear that the rest of the dev team have no regard for it, and our strike team just try and clean up as best they can. I think your fears are well founded. I have given up on waiting for what I want Crucible to be, to become reality. I think come June my PvP game time will be spent in XDefiant and The Finals.

If the leaks are true then classes are going away in D3, so it makes sense they’re stepping toward that here.

Im worried about that too about class identity. I think prismatic is a cool idea but i think if they stray too far it'll hurt destiny more than help it.

I think the pain points you are mentioning are real. But I think the fun factor of prismatic and exotic class items will outweigh the class identity problem. As for pvp, its gonna get pretty crazy. I think they will find a way to balance it. Speculation is pointless until we see it though.

Yo TV bungie covered this by saying that exotic class items will have a weaker version of the exotics they imitate.

Warlock devour wasn't nerfed, it was nerfed on other classes

I agree. I hated before even subclass 3.0, but when stasis dropped. I hated that all grenades and fragments were the same across all classes...

I honestly think they just pulled this idea out of no where to pull players back and up pre-orders. Like you said it goes agenst everything they have said and wanted to do for pvp so to me it doesn't make sense.

Well...im torn. On one hand i agree with your sentiment hear about class identity. I chose the hunter in the beginning because of invisibility. I thought it was cool. However, on the other hand the game needs to evolve into something better or greater if the destiny universe wants to stay relevant. Im willing to give these changes a chance because im hoping they add to the power fantasy of each class in the coming year or so.

D3 spoilers - . . . . . . . . . I think the reason why the lines are blurring on classes is because that IS what bungie is trying to do. D3 isn't going to have classes and we're just gonna be guardians who can use anything and everything like a lore accurate guardian. Which, idk how I feel about it. I don't think it's going to be as crazy as this video makes it out to be though for pvp at this point in time in this specific game. Warlocks still only have warlock powers, hunters still only have hunter powers. It just means you have to be familiar with the prismatic kit.

Wait until he reads the lore about how Guardian classes only exist because of the City. We’re just becoming lore accurate lightbearers over time.

I think prismatic will be problematic in PvP, however it’s a cool enough idea that I want bungie to find a way to make it work out

personally i'm really happy about this, i would like to use warlock build but i 300% hate his jump... so for me that's a big yeah baby!! for jorum claw, i almost farmed only this weapon this season in iron banner and imo best roll is gutshot straight and head seeker. this roll is a pvp monster!

I don’t know, the shiny chase is non existent for me. It’s been three weeks of grinding and other than the Shax initial drops I have got nada. And with my friends having zero interest in Pantheon, I guess that is an event I’ll not participate, which is probably a first.

Idk man I really like how they gave every class the grenades and fragments for 3.0 all being the same. I still think there is bery clear identity cuz lets think about besides fragments and grenades abilities, the super, melee, aspects and class ability r all still JUST for that class. So technically thats only 2/6 things that r “homoginized” between classes so only 1/3. Just doesnt bother me. I will say u made a VERY good point about the readability of what the opponent’s abilities r with prismatic in the crucible. It will for sure be a jarring adjustment. Im here for it though its gonna be sickk. Ive been playing since d1 no breaks. As long as we dont go back to og stasis or lorenz driver or any of those crazy times I think were mostly good in pvp.

So glad im not the only one who isnt really thrilled about prismatic. Why are we excited about reskinned, reused assets in abilities we already have?? Yes, it makes for a flashy showcase, but take all the hype away and there isnt much of substance there. I much rather would have preferred a brand new darkness subclass. Does no one else still want that?! Not to mention that class/subclass identity is all but doomed at this point. You touched on that well, I miss the exclusive grenades, abilities, etc that set guardians apart. Being all the same is boring

I’m going to preface this by saying. I’m a PvP main. 1.8 to 2.0kd overall. But what I feel like TV is discounting here is this is a pve game at its core and the LORE and the canon of the game is why we are heading in this direction. A canon guardian is more so a limitless light bearer. Not a constrained one. Classes were made in the game because of engine limitations. Not because bungie wanted to make people separate. This whole everyone gets everything talk is id presume bungies original vision that they couldn’t make when they started and so they went with classes to have clear differences to better be able to work within the tiger engines limitations at the time. His entire discomfort here is PvP related. I understand his worry as I’m worried to but tbh this is just Bungie showing again that this is a PVE game at its core. And the lore is what they care about not the PvP sandbox. That’s been showcased with the years of leaving PvP out to dry. Take it for what it is. PvP is gonna be a mess. Mayhem. This game is not a competitive shooter with tourneys though. It’s too unbalanced as it is. More imbalance won’t change it much.

I remember when I first logged into D1 it gave some blurb about the type of way you wanted to play. Hunters played from a distance, titans got stuck in because they were tougher. Warlocks were in the middle. Now none of that matters. At all.

Prismatic, to me, smacks of laziness on Bungie’s part. They obviously couldn’t come up with a new damage type and subclass in time for their dead line so they are to half bake all the abilities together. I have been uninterested in this sore attempt at a “new” subclass since they announced it.

what's interesting is that this will probably continue as they'll release new exotic class items with new perks. it might narrow down the math a little bit but it's still a lot of options for what you could be facing