I'm a professional locksmith and I can tell it's not as easy as it looks, but honestly I'm really impressed with the way you manipulated the Dial safe to open it. That's very professional with the simple tools that you used.
Thanks I repsect your profession takes a lot of improvising and thinking on the spot and making tools to work. I started out by opening cars before safe work. I sub out for many Locksmith friends and they still impress me with there wit on figuring stuff out. They have guided me in many ways. Thanks again
I know there not easy, remember a long pointer helps with readings. You could start by parking all wheels then move only the drive wheel or last wheel around in other direction. If nothing park all wheels in different spot and try again.
Very nice work sir. Pretty much how I do it on this type, but I have a laser pointer mounted to my handle extension, and my gauge on the floor. Gives a me an indicator that's a foot long or more in most cases, so the indications are *very* dramatic. Still, I might have to grab a skewer and commission a magnetic ruler with millimeter graduations. I don't like relying on batteries. They always leave the combination in the safe, don't they? I opened an old Mosler from the 30s or 40s last week (non-direct entry)... It was part of an estate sale. Other than the keys for the internal locking drawers, the only thing in the safe was the combination on the original documentation. I joked that they wanted to keep it in a safe place 😋
Thats a good system you have going. I could see how readings would be improved. That seems to happen often with combo locked inside. Nice work on mosler they were good safes in there time.
you got a sub as a fellow manipulator for a lock shop this helps even with all my professional information i can gather this is another take that helps
Is there perhaps a way someone could get pictures of the lock mechanism in this? I am trying to identify the lock in my safe and perhaps put it back together. it appears the safe was drilled but In a place that doesn't make sense.
Excellent video and lots of great pointers and hints. I have an old Victor Safe, pat. Feb. 1, 1910 with the handle built into the dial. Can you either explain here, or perhaps in a video, how I would work the handle to determine the driver gate and search for the proper combination, without having the handle as you have shown here.
Hello Sir the victor safe has a different lock it manipulates like the gun safe video I show. The handle in the dial wont do for manipulating. Also the arm that drops into the gates is by gravity and no spring that makes it tough to feel it. There is no hard plate and easy to drill maybe can get someone to drill for ya.
@@johnwickpick8621 thank you for the reply. I will check out the video and continue to search and try. I truly want to drill or damage the safe, so I just need to add a fee bucket loads of patience and keep at it. Thanks again. I am getting another "locked for 50 yrs plus" safe today with an Hale dial lock and no combo. I don't know the safe brand as of yet, but do know it has a seperate handle, which may help me in using your video. We shall see.
That was very smart for him to lock the combination in there what better way to keep yourself out, I know how to quit smoking now I just need to buy a safe to lock em up.
Thanks for my request and question that you answered. One more question maybe you know about the Halls safe. There are two bolts on each caster. Before I take them off, do you know if the nut is secured? That is if I remove the bolt will I be able to reattach the caster without getting inside to line up the nut? I'm hoping they welded it in place so when I'm ready to put the bolt back on it will be an easy task. Thanks!
Why do hall dials and handles look so similar to old Moslers? I have a difficult time telling them apart especially because both companies have the braided edge pattern and code stamped on handle.. Great job!
hkygoli33 Antique safes are often similar in appearance like dials and for example the braided trim. Why that is not exactly sure except manufactures copy each other. Ususally "Hands on" is the only way to tell what lock your facing. Most the time safe owners would stencil there name on it and its not the name of the safe. Halls is easy to identify from the handle bind, now there are others that bind but look no way the same. Your best bet is to get familiar with the different antique safe locks then you can ID it and drill it properly. Thanks for the great question I often asked myself that same thing.
Hey Mark, I have an old Halls Safe at our church. I want to try your method on it. You talk about the FALSE GATE. Are they on wheel 1, 2 or 3. What direction should I start to find them?
Hey John, I recently found a J Baum Safe and Lock Co. safe. This safe was found behind drywall during a renovation lol. The combination and handle look identical to the safe in this video, so do the wheels and overall design. I am wondering if the locking mechanism is the same, I would love to use this technique to open it up. Thanks John
Its easy to tell if the mechinism is the same, put turning pressure on the handle and turn the dial. If the dial sticks or wont turn its the same. If there is no difference in the dial then its different
No not really only in lock class's they have written courses on manipulation. I know its difficult/tricky to learn to dial correctly. Only one wrong turn with the dial and it throws everything off. Takes concentration for sure..
I have parked the wheels on a safe like this in all ten positions and ran the drive wheel for each parked position with no luck. Are there any other suggestions ? I have possibly fond one gate but don't know which wheel its on.
Only run one wheel at a time and park the others, I realize you have to turn the drive cam wheel but just return it to the same number. This way you will know which wheel a gate is. Also try not to even "Not" look for a gate. Just run each wheel by itself around parking the others. Take best reading from each wheel and continue same process over. Soon a real gate will pop out
Thanks manipulation is tricky and takes concentration so you make the right moves with the dial. I constantly run into people who can't open there safe even with the combination cause of one wrong dial turn.
I believe the driver gate… it looks like three numbers make the needle move to the left! Do you have anywhere I can personally msg or call? Would love to hear some advice or help
Could be high spots on wheels are hiding your driver gate. Try parking all wheels left at 30 then run driver gate around right only. If nothing try 50 left then driver to the right, then try 70 and run only driver You should get a low reading on driver by parking wheels. At least then you cam start with the process
@@johnwickpick8621I have an old Halls jewelry safe I am trying to open but I have the 5 digits. Could you tell me what the turning sequence would be? Thank you,
@hoosierbengal163 That should being a jewelers have four wheels and a driver which makes five. So the sequence would be 5 times Right to first number Then Left 4 times to next number. (every time you line that number up it counts as a turn) Them 3 times Right to next number. Then 2 times Left to number Then Right until the Dial comes to a Stop to Open.
Great video! You give me hope that I can open my safe. I’ve watched this video about 10 times and I keep seeing things going missed the previous time. Where can I find the magnetic dial that you stick on the front of the safe?
I picked up that magnetic rings years ago at a safe convention. You can just make a fine line indicator on paper and use that just something to see the needle move. Glad it helps.
I meant to say that each time I watch your video I see something new. My safe has been sitting outside for ten years. Do you still think the wheels are still turning? Is there a way to get lubrication into the vital areas? Do you have other videos? Thanks again!
@@bairdsantiquescollectables306 oh thats neat find something new each time. No way to get lube to the lock Yes the wheels should be fine what rusts is the door frame. If you get the lock open the door itself might not open. Then a ten pound hammer and 2x4 hitting the door usually frees it up and breaks the rust seal. The lock wheels are brass and big and heavy so they last. Thanks
I found where you can get that magnetic dial ring, the ring cost is $80.00 and the pointer is $20.00 Here is the email address: rcvanwinkle@hotmail.com. his name is Rich Van Winkle
thanks for the info. I tried to send him an email at the address you said but it keeps saying it;s no good. do you have another address ?@@johnwickpick8621
I have a big single door HHM turn of the century safe. It was closed when I got it and no combination. The lever handle doesn’t bind the dial. I keep trying to manipulate it but no luck. I’m ready to drill. Where do I drill? What diameter drill bit? How deep do I drill? Can I grill it with a regular hold it in you hand drill or do I need the magnetic and strap drill? Thx
You will probably need scope to do the job. It can be done without one but it could be messy and hard to do with no scope. It probably a OB lock which means open bottom or the fence is near bottom. You most likely will need carbide to drill it. I would say call a tech to do it unless you just want to bust it open.
No that would be similar to a regular lock like on my gun safe video. Usually Diebold lock does not have a lever spring and that makes it even harder to do.
First to verify you have a straight tailpiece like mine turn handle and turn dial to see if the dials freezes up. That's a three wheel lock plus the drive wheel. So dial 4xL 3xR 2xL and 1x Right. Only the drive wheel has false gates not the other wheels.
@@johnwickpick8621 okay thanks I'm going to see it monday. The customer said the combo works but the handle just turns and stop but can't get door open. she said she turns the handle ccw. Said the handle turns a little more then normal before it stops she thinks
@mikefinley4713 If the handle turns after combo is dialed it's possible something is stuck in the door frame. Either give the door a hard pull or even hit the door near the open edge then pull on it. May need a heavy hand sledge to hit door with
@@johnwickpick8621 It feels like the bolt assembaly is moveing but it sounds like something might be loose. And the dial doesn't bind when I put and hold pressure on handle. can you give me the DP'S for the bolts so I can bunch them back to open. Please
I have this old Herring Hall Marvin safe with a HHM 100 # dial. The dial will lock up when pressure is applied to handle on all gates. Have watched your vid over and over,, have same set up as you in vid, but cannot find a gate that is lower. Have tried running all wheels left and also right. Do you have any suggestions on what I can try? Also do you think it will be a 4 number combination,,,4L,3R,2L,1R ?.
Should be a 3 wheel lock. Which is 2 wheels and a driver. If your looking for the 3rd number or driver number and nothing shows then wheels 1 or 2 is hiding it. You must park the other wheels in different positions and try running 3 by itself. If nothing shows park them again at different numbers. Once you find a low spot on other wheels then 3 will show up. It don't take long to run 3 so keep parking 1 and 2 it don't matter where you park them. Eventually you have to find a low spot.
I have an old Halls Lock and Safe Co. safe that is open. when I removed the plate off the back of the door it is concrete with a round opening in the center. there is a round plate held on with 3 screws. How do I figure out when the combo is on it?
There is a very small slot tht runs up and down to the right of the center. That is a window to view combination. Not very easy cause its so small but with a strong light you look in slot and line up each wheel gate. There will be four of them or 4 numbers. Dialing sequence is 4 turns left, 3 right, 2 left and 1 right and turn handle You can always remove the three screws and take off round curb and remove wheels then drill the slot bigger.
@@johnwickpick8621,thank you very much. I had to drill it at the 12 o'clock position and then use an inspection camera and figure it out. Appreciate your quick response.
@@johnwickpick8621 former owner of this safe had it for years, and he got it from some other guy. Story is, the safe belonged to an eccentric man who had died, rumor was the safe had all kinds of valuable things in it. The safe was stolen, but the dude that took it couldn't open it. So he took it to the river bottoms and dumped it. It was recovered and returned to the family. Nobody knew what the combination was so they had a locksmith drill it. The 'valuables' were notes of the eccentric man's family. He valued them so much, and that's all that he kept in the safe.
4 times Left to first number 3 times Right to second number 2 times Left to third number 1 time Right to last number Note it can be dialed opposite to that in other words starting to the Right but the combo will be different. The last number always stays the same both Left or Right
This method works only on safes with straight tailpiece/ fence. In other words when you turn the handle it freezes up the dial and you cant turn it. Then when you release handle pressure the dial turns. If you can turn the dial when the handle is turned then this wont work because we need to take the readings from the handle.
Basicly there are three wheels and a driver wheel. The driver wheel turns with the dial. Each wheel has a true gate and several fake gates. The object is to get the pointer to go furhter inside a real gate while the fake gate will stop the pointer from going deeper. If your not in a real gate with the driver wheel or last wheel it can hide other readings. So I couldnt find a number on wheel three because it was being masked by others. Thats why I park wheels in low spots so not to mask others. Its like picking a pin tumbler lock. Usually one pin will bind first before others. You cant pick the others until you pick the binding pin first because it hides the other pins from being picked. The hardest part is keeping track of your wheels and turns. You have to know exactly where each wheel is Parked and how to move them to be successful.
I have don’t such research it is crazy. My mom bought a safe and loss the combo to it. I have been like 007 trying to get in to this safe . It has no information on the outside. I’m not sure if I’m even looking up the right safe to get information on it . He has a combo knob like this one in the video, T handle. The combo knob has Sargent & Greenleaf on it with a bunch of dates. If I pull down on the handle the combo still spins. After sayin all that do you think this method will work
No this method wont work on that one. Yours ia a regular combintion lock, a Sargent & Greanleaf model 6810 rollar bolt lock. That requies regular manipulation but are still hard to do. So the best method is a small hole to insert a scope and read the wheels. You probably could find a lock guy for few hundred to open it.
@@momapoohbear7653 Your right only the lock is S&G might be a Barns safe but S&G put there locks on several types. I would know by seeing it. This would be rare but its always possible the combination is set on only one number. Go Left at least four times to 15 then turn back right to 100. Now go left only to 17 then back to 100, then left to 19 tben back right to 100. Go all the way around like this in two increments. If the combos on one number you could open it. You would feel it catch at 100.
@@derek7448 I belong to a safe & vault organization and used to teach there. I picked up that magentic ring at the trade show. Any type of marking system will work because your attention is really on the pointer attached to the handkle.
i have a halls safe pick up for 200$ dont have the convination its got a loosse handle would that give me a false reading on dial?my false gate readings at 12 22 32 42 and so on need help
A loose dial wouldnt effect your readings as long as the handle turns with the same amount of force on each reading. The handle might have been forced at some point making the handle loose. It sounds like your on the right track you already have the last wheel maped out.
