Great video. It was very helpful the way you found that last number of the combination. Using the tape to mark the final position of that last the wheel worked for me. Then, in my case, the first and second numbers were not hard to dial in.
Thank you Dean, I appreciate you watching it till the end LOL I did warn people in the video that for Some it could be boring at the end. Always nice to have you stop by. Gary
This video is a huge help, I bought a very similar safe to this about a year ago. Mine is about 2 feet shorter, but its still a monster of a safe. Thanks for sharing, I'll review this when I need to re code it.
Safe and Vault technician here. I didn't watch the entire video, but in skimming through you really do have a good understanding safe locks. One thing to note however, you are never supposed to lubricate the wheel pack. The main issue is over time the lube will pick up dust and dirt, which will cause your combo to start drifting, eventually you could get locked out. Your best bet would be to find a replacement lock that has not been messed with.
Sound advice, I made the mistake of lubricating a stiff wheel pack 'once' with WD40 thinking it'd be okay, but over time it proved me wrong. Thankfully it was only a training lock and not stuck inside an impregnable metal box. 🤔😉
That was real interesting , you did a good job of explaining how it works . I'm wondering did you figure it out or did that guy Paul show you ? Again , great video Gary
Back in 1995 I needed to figure out the combination, it just wasn’t locked up at that time. Looking back I wish I would of did the job myself. I think there would of been less damage. Thanks for taking the time to check out the video. Gary
Doug, i’m sure by watching the video you know I wasn’t real happy with the outcome. If I had it to do over I would’ve researched a little more and drilled myself. Sometimes taking stuff to the professionals doesn’t always guarantee the best outcome. I appreciate you taking the time to check out the video. Gary
@@OldIronMachineWorks I have 2 magdrills i may try it myself. A hole saw or hougen bit may be the way to go. I just want to make it look ok when i am done.
Hi Gary Did you know that the square holes in all the wheels in the wheel pack are for changing the combination to what you want? there should be a round hole in the back cover plate that lines up with them and a piece of square shaft (you had one earlier in the video) bent at a 90 Degree angle, like an Allen key, will turn the locks on all four wheels, you can then dial the new combination, reinsert the square shaft and re lock the wheels and your new combination should be locked in! do this with the door open and test it several times before you close and lock the door. Also, you mentioned the drill marks on the outside edge of the wheels, those are not damage from the opening but are put there on purpose to make noise when the fence rides across them to confuse someone trying to open the safe by listening to it as the dial is turned. they are irregular to make an irregular sound, but are there on purpose. what a great safe!! Jim
Lovely safe! It’s a great shame you seem to have chosen the wrong guy to drill it! They may apparently have years of experience but drilled right out the back of the lock twice!? That’s just poor work. As for dealing the combo I’m afraid you have got that a bit backwards and that’s why at the end you are doing that little left right left thing to get the nose to drop in. First number should start in the clockwise direction and last number is anti clockwise resulting in a final single turn to the right to open the safe. I hope you manage to repair such a beautiful safe. Thanks for the video it was very cool to see.
I really appreciate you taking the time to leave a comment. I talked to Paul today and let him know about the damage. When we drilled it out we did not open the doors at the time by my choice. He told me he may have the parts I need so I do not have to repair them. I kind of like starting to the left for the first number but after I repair it I may change it. But I do know I need to eliminate all the play in that lug so the fence will always drop in. To be honest I always wanted to drill it myself, wish I would of went that route. Gary
Hi Gary: This is fasinating! I have wondered for a long time on just how a combination lock works! THANKS!! Great video! The man that invented this lock must have lost a lot of sleep trying to figure it out! Looking forward to your next video! Gary
JD, in this case I would not agree with you. There’s just some people out there with more talent than others. I would not say that the people with less talent doesn’t care.
Not necessarily more talent but usually more information. I have drilled quite a few of those Diebolds and get them with one hole. And no damage to the internals other than the hole in the case. But this is because I know the lock. Likely that old gent never drilled one of this model before. When I started drilling safes back in the 80's putting a hole up top was a very common opening technique. Not so much today though. Opening that model 4 wheel lock without drilling is very difficult. I manipulate safes open regularly and dont even bother to try dialing those open. I have recently located a larger Diebold than yours that I helped to move years ago. Can you give me the outside dimensions on your safe? Also slow down on that fast dialing. Those locks are pretty bullet proof but that speed dialing causes minute wear in the wheel pick up pins. Otherwise a nice video.
Brian, they did make some pretty elaborate locking mechanisms even back in the day. Way more elaborate than what’s in my safe. Thanks for stopping by. Gary
That's a very interesting video. I had no idea how the lock of a safe works until now. It's quite simple really but it's precision. People were Much better at making things in the past. You can see how bad technology has got now looking at the workmanship put into this. Even with all the machinery of today the minds using them wouldn't be able to make something like that. Subscribed 👍💚💛❤️
The patent number on the dial is for the dial only, not necessarily also the safe. The safe looks like a Miller & Son safe made in Pittsburgh, PA from 1911 to about 1929. The inside of the lock side door, once you remove the screws on interior panel, there is a serial number stamped (usually vertically) into the main door frame, and you can research that number for the manufacture and the production date of the safe.
Hi Gary - thanks to your video, today (after ~2 years of trying) I opened my Dad's old safe, which uses the same Diebold Eagle #161 lock that your safe has. Now I just need to find the key to the inner compartment (I will), but what a great day! Long story short, I confirmed that you and I were using the incorrect dialing sequence. The dialing method you showed adds an unnecessary "dial a 5th number" before reversing direction to retract the bolt. Yes, this 5-digit combination works, but the lock is designed for a 4-digit combination. Instead of starting dialing counter clockwise, all you need to do is dial "really far" clockwise to pick up all wheels and stop of the first number, then CCW (past the second number 3 times and stop on it the 4th time), then CW past the third number two times and stop it the third time, then CCW past the fourth number one time and stop on it the second time. NOW, reverse direction (go CW), and in one motion, the fence drops into the gaps and as you continue (one motion), the cam pulls the bolt open. To determine the correct combination, you'll need to remove the back of the lock and do your dialing and find out where all wheels are aligned before the fence drops into the gaps, and note the corresponding numbers on the dial. Once you do this, you'll have an entirely different combination, but one that was meant to be, just four digits then a fifth motion to retract the bolt. You and I (and my Dad) were adding an unnecessary step. It works, but it's not how it was meant to be. Many thanks. Your video was literally the only one on the Internet to demonstrate the workings of this Diebold lock and resulted in success. Thank you so much.
Andrew, I’m glad my video was able to help you in getting your father safe open. I knew it was possible to start in either direction on the dial in order to get it to work but I never knew the true starting direction. I appreciate you letting me know. To be honest, I have not done much with the safe since the video. I would still like to find an original box that is undamaged to swap out. If I have no luck finding one, then I will make whatever repairs necessary. Again, I’m glad the video was some help to you and I appreciate you watching the video and commenting. Thank you, Gary
You really had a Hit with this video, Gary ! I had to stop back and see what comments the people had . Apparently, word has gotten out that you have consistently good content on a variety of tasks and projects ! Well on the way to 5K subscribers ..... and I'm guessing that will increase exponentially . You got a little bit of "magic" in all your videos . ...... can't wait to see what ya got next !
Gday Gary, great to see you got that safe back and I always wondered how the combination mechanism worked, amazing bit of gear, the safe was very well built, great job mate, cheers
Your section on recovering the combination helped me tremendously. I am restoring a "The Hall's Safe Co." safe that came out of the "Planters Cotton Mill" near Waxahachie TX that burned down many years ago. The safe was locked open with the wheel pack removed so it couldn't be accidentally locked. It is a different lock design that doesn't allow a view of the wheels, but you helped me understand how combination locks work; I'm thinking you got me going down the path too figuring this out. Thank you,
Are you dial the wrong direction, L,R,L,R then left a little to drop the nose then right, wouldn't R,L,R,L,R Till open work ? you may need to re-check you combo though. Have a great day, Oh, real nice safe. Thanks for showing it. and I agree the top hole should have been the only hole.
What is the machine behind and to the left of the safe, it has large table (table saw) you have a older Lincoln AC/dc welder with crank adjustment brought back memories.
Dale, yes, that is a 1400 pound tablesaw. It’s got some problems so it’ll be parted out and I will use the main table-saw as a workbench, welding bench.
Can the wheel pack stack order be rearranged to change the combination order or do the wheel-to-wheel mechanisms (pins & grooves?) limit where in the stack a wheel can be placed? Are there "old safe" junk yards for spare parts?
AZ, great question. I know these are not easy to change but I may be able to change the order of the wheel packs. I will find out when I tear into it deeper. I contacted Paul and told him about the damage I found. He said he may have some parts for it in his safe junk pile.
I restore antique safes as a hobby, mostly bankers safes. I have found on several safes that they were mis-handled or dropped when moved and the result is a severely bent wheel axle pin to the point it wouldn't take much to completely sheer one apart. If the wheel pin was a front one and that happened it would cause the safe to tilt forward when the door is opened causing a dangerous situation so check the front axle pins. I have a un-damaged Diebold lock housing like yours I will give you if you want it. Nice very large safe.
John, that is a very good point about the wheel pins. Easy enough to check them out. I would love to find a undamaged housing and cover plate if possible. If you had one I would have no problem paying you for it. If you could send me a message to oldironmachineworks@yahoo.com on how I can get a hold of you. Gary
Looking more at your video - I'm confused why after landing on the 4th number, you need to turn CCW again to drop the nose into the cam before turning CW to retract the bolt. I can SEE why you do this, but I'm not sure you have to. If you turn CCW to land on the 4th number, then you'd just need to turn CW, which would cause the nose to fall in, and the bolt to retract, all in one turning motion. This seems to be a more standard way of dialing. However this means you'd need to start your dialing sequence in the CW direction, not CCW as you do here. Is it possible the intended sequence is CW-CCW-CW-CCW-CW(retract)? What do you think?
Safe Story , my, friend , former bank president, bank exameniar John [passed] told me about a friend, wealthy, bought a bunch of oil paintings from an estate .they were kept in a big 2 door vault or safe.all the paintings were his. when they were removing the paintings, someone noticed little drawers in the doors every drawer was full of 20 dollar gold pieces, He called the widow and told her what the found and she got really upset, say I just setteled the estate and paid all the taxes, I don't want any more problems, You can keep them. Like I said, wealthy people.
I used to work for Diebold. They are still (mostly) in business. I think that era build had the serial number impressed on the handle. Diebold may be able to give you more specific information about the safe.
Patented while in Cincinnati . Built Canton . Try emailing Debold about the 85798 lock works . They should have some info on it. Would guess the works where originally oil with whale oil . Watch oil would do the trick .
I have a safe that looks similar. It has been in our building since 1937. It has been painted so i have been told since it was painted it was worthless. It is currently locked and I need it opened. Any thoughts?
Andy, on some of the older safes like this you can’t just pull the dial and the ring like some other safes. Trust me, if that was an option that’s what I would’ve done.
This was great I always wanted to see inside a safe and how they worked it took some very smart people back in those days with out electronic no how. They must have been your ancestors, thank you Gary for you video for this amazing look back in time.
Do you happen to know who or what the original owner was? i was thinking large department store or a medium sized bank, because that is a monster of a double door.
The real treasure is those two girls, my daughter has been my most valued presence to my life. Hope they bring you as much joy and happiness. Nice safe too.
Very interesting. I have never seen the interior of a safe tumbler. Good luck in the repair. Would make a great gun safe. Probably more secure than most new safes. Thanks for sharing.
Fascinating safe and work too figure out the combination. I was sent to a lock picking school by my employer, if that didn't work we had other ways to remove a door or wall.:)
I always wondered how those things worked. Still not sure what magic is happening inside the cam to allow those wheels to stop in the vertical position. Just last week we had two old boys working on our 1800{s safe at the dealership. I just saw one guy had a giant magnifying glass and the other had a stethoscope?? I enjoyed this very much!
Thank you Jeff. Lots of different style safes take different style approaches to working on them. Unfortunately this old Safe can’t be manipulated therefore you have to drill. Thanks for checking out the video.
What allows the wheels to stop are tension washers in between the wheels that act as brakes. In these old safes the tension wears out and wheels drift off numbers
The slide plate was remade in modern times. I see rotary milling cutting marks, not many end mill type mill in 1880’s. Really interesting video thank you
Dale, I think if you did a little research on these Diebold mechanisms you’ll see all of them have the same machine marks. It’s amazing what kind of machines were out there even back in the day. They just weren’t very common. I appreciate you stopping by and checking out the video. Gary
Thank you for a most interesting video. I'd used combination locks all my working life, but never knew how they worked. We had to change combinations on a regular basis to maintain security. It was done by opening the door, then inserting something like a cranked, square section Allen key into that small square hole in the wheel and then turning it 90 degrees. The lock was then scrambled by turning it five times clockwise and stopping on the first chosen number. As I remember, it was then turned three times anticlockwise stopping on the second chosen number, then twice clockwise stopping on the third number. The key in the back was then turned back and removed, which locked in the new combination.
I appreciate you taking the time to leave a comment. I’m looking forward to taking the combination lock apart farther and seeing if there’s any adjustments on the wheel packs. I did not think there was, but I could be wrong. Gary
Really interesting Gary. I learned two things today. One is how these old locks work, which I’ve always been interested in. And two, you can fix anything.
Wish you'd shown the repair to take out slack. I wasn't real clear on that, otherwise more interesting than I thought it was going to be. Too bad it had to be damaged to get it open.
Ted, I agree. In the video you can see that the extra slack was caused by the area that was the stop for one direction was where it got drilled out. I was going to repair the damage but I have a couple leads on a undamaged box. I will have a video down the road when that happens. Thanks for checking out the video.
On this Safe the front skin is probably quarter inch, but then it’s filled with a fire proof type of concrete which makes it harder to break into. I appreciate you taking the time to check out the video and leave a comment. Gary
It's probably to late now but to properly repair the safe they need to put ball bearings in the holes and use a metal plug made for safe repair. The lock should be safe but a newer model installed. FYI, my cousin is a licensed locksmith so that's how I've learned about safes and proper repairs. Excellent video, thanks again for sharing 🙏👌🙏🙏👌
Definitely need to install a hard plate on the inside to protect against drilling. Safe companies usually sell hard plate. Thanks again for sharing your video.
You can weld those 2 small holes up. Put a ball bearing or 2 and weld it. They probably drilled those 2 holes to put a boroscope in it to dial it open. Those 2 holes can be easily fixed. The 2 holes can easily be fixed and you'll never know they were even there.
Great video Gary. I have a combo for a my safe with a similar lock but having a hard time finding the proper procedure for dialing it. I could almost determine it from your video but not quite. Can you provide the info on which direction L/R to start, how many turns past the number, stop on it the nth time, etc.? I think I could do it by ear/feel: - CCW lots to grab the discs, then stop on first number; - CW until hear 3 discs pick up then stop on second number; - CCW until hear 2 discs pick up then stop on third; - CW until hear one disc, stop on fourth number; - then it looks like CCW *slightly* until you hear the fence drop; - then CW to retract the bolt. Is this correct? Is there an easier method? Many thanks for such as no-nonsense detailed video.
I've only seen a few large safes in my lifetime and just about all of them, the door was closed, and nobody knew the combination, never to be opened again. We always fantasized that, Gold and Silver were in the safe never to be recovered, I wanted to see what you had in the safe when you opened it, even thou it was empty, it was still a little exciting. COOL video. Thank You Sir.
Thanks for stopping by Aaron. I just modified that trailer with 5200 pound axles. So I’m good for at least 10,000 pounds now. I have a lot of footage working on the trailer just need to find time to edit for a video. Gary
