Halo 2s Controversial Combos 

I had the same reaction to when they removed the glider glitch from Black Ops 4 Black Out. Only thing that made it fun and then they fixed it :(

Made me think of melee roll cancels in Uncharted 3

@@MlSTERSANDMAN ooon oo

I still miss toggle escapes and dead-angles from dark souls 1 If any of yall know what those are, cheers 👍

@@Weebfox I've played a shitload of PVP in DkS1 and I have no idea what you are talking about. I know about reverse rolling and moveswapping and a couple more things, but wth are those?

"It’s balanced because of the 4 inch melee lunge range"

It was literally all I did during the tech preview because I knew it was going to get taken out. 🤣

I have rarely been that livid over a button glitch

Oh haha it does. I didn't think of that

That shit was pretty funny and pretty stupid. Dead simple too, if you had a paddle or a keyboard you could ora ora that shit and demolish even overshielded opponents

Haven't we all, Brian

Don't lie Brian, it's a well known fact that every competitive fighting game player was born with an arcade stick in hand and has never moved outside the genre.

Same. Halo 2 is the best fps.

I just scrolled past one of your vids before seeing this one. LEAVE ME ALONE BRIAN.

i never knew about this tech but I'm glad i do now

The hard part about that is its hard to define a genre without sounding winded, I mean- First Person Shooter already doesn't exactly roll of the tongue but its nothing compared, say "It's a Sluggish-Hard Combat game with a large world that constantly loops" genre. Soulslike is just way easier

Tbf, souls-like explains a game extremely well. "What's Remnant?" "It's souls-like with guns." It just really helps people know what the game is like.

Well rogue. I recommend everyone try it

The OGRES will disagree with your statement on Halo 1s multiplayer

the difference in these two is that souls-like and doom clone are established as copying the specific formula souls likes use that dodgeroll, clunky animations, and the dying thing doom clones play like doom but as far as rogue-like goes that term has become more general outline than formula, or rather rogue-lite because thats actually what the genre became anyway risk of rain 2 is a rogue-lite but it plays absolutely nothing like slay the spire does and neither play anything like dead cells does and none of those play anything like binding of isaac, but theyre all rogue-lites

That's kind of the nature of movement options. Not exactly making you do directly more damage, they instead open up your creativity and are limited only by how you think of using them

@@ksad96 yeah but what they mean is its possible to do one poorly, meaning your reward scales directly with your ability. With something that either works or doesnt you dont get that incremental increase in reward as you improve.

@@leaffinite3828 It's also possible to get value out of the technique even at lower skill levels. All but the most awkward of rocket jumpers can get up onto the rooftops, and there's value in having the high ground.

@@PsychadelicoDuck yes, that is an example of what i mean

That's not really true. You're only considering a single doubleshot in a vaccum. Sure, you can't get half a double shot, but that's entirely ignoring consistency. A good player will be able to doubleshot much more consistently and string them together into quadshots. Not to mention that you also still have to aim while doing your doubleshots. A bad player may be able to doubleshot, but that doesn't mean shit if you just whiff completely.

lmao i want a full shippu animation

I thought it was Capitain Falcon's Down smash

@@quentebarchiveeoutrascoisa8036 nerd pov

I love that SF3/Third Strike was so landmark in competitive gameplay and sprite art/animation that it is almost always the point of reference for parodies like this thumbnail lol

I don't play street fogher so I wouldn't know but it also looks like ky's 6k from strive

GIVE ME TITANFALL 3 COWARDS

That line made me want to kill myself

He did say apex zoomers where as we are titanfall boomers

@@RockedIn I prefer the term, “Titanfall chad” thank you

@@why8298 makes sense. Unfortunately I can't play anymore coz the servers keep timing out and I can't find a single game. I wanna cry.

A substantial amount of the mcc 2 community has it down a science and always use it. I’m kinda with original bungies take, it’s a bug that shouldn’t be used.

@@noobishmacgaming In the past year and a half, I’ve played H2 with some very good players. In my experience, I would say that very few players have double shots down to a consistent level at all. There are some double shot modded controllers out there (those players usually lack game sense so they don’t do well anyways) but by and large, consistent double shotting is extremely rare, even amongst the best players. It’s harder on MCC than OG because of the higher server tick rate, and it really isn’t all that rewarding when considering if you mess up you’re screwed. I would say the amount of players that “have it down to a science” is incredibly small. It’s substantially difficult, situational, and you have to do it while aiming.

@@gopistons4 it’s harder on MCC than OG because of the higher server tick rate. This explains why I'm able to pick up double/ quadshot in maybe 30 minutes on the og version after years of not playing and struggle to hell to get it consistent in the MCC version. Thanks, I thought it wasn't quite the same.

@@craig3536 No problem, man. And yeah, your window to time the RX perfectly is basically cut in half because the server refreshes & gathers inputs twice as fast as OG (60hz instead of 30)

The game has an extremely high skill floor even without the combos. Just coming from 3 to 2 and trying to hit a strafing played is very hard. The hitboxes change very unintuitively and it seems faster than the newer games. And this is even with a "hitscan" br

@@fahrilian he just did bro ur bouta learn something about gun combos

NGL, this makes it sound like an absolute blast to play. Then again, if my personal favorite shooter, Ultrakill, got a multiplayer vs. mode, its movement mechanics would probably make Melee look like Brawl.

I loved H2.

At least with melee all of the advanced tech like shffling, wavedashing, shield dropping, etc are all actually programmed into the game. The mechanics are working as intended, just a lot faster and more reliably than the devs ever thought they would be done. These Halo 2 button combos are definitely unintended buffering glitches.

@@protoposer5625 And yet, it was doable by only those who practiced and tried it a lot. As a "claw" player from back in the day.... BXR and BXB are nto glitches. They are 100% part of what makes H2 a complete and perfect fps game.

@@amatureskater15 They literally are glitches by very definition, they were an unintended exploit caused by an unfixed bug, and Bungie released a public statement saying that, while it created a wild competitive community, it was ultimately a mistake and wouldn't be coming back in Halo 3. If Halo 2 had come out in the age of constant updates, those two exploits and their many counterparts would have been eradicated in the very first balance update. You can't just decide a bug isn't a bug because you like it. That's not how it works.

And even then, Jumper included the drawback of ‘You don’t have a rocket launcher’

No combos have a disadvantage. Doubleshotting isn’t always a 3 shot so in many cases a pure 4 shot with walls (unless it’s MCC bad reg in that case 6+ shots) will always be faster if you see each other head on. A double shot even in a heavy comfortable flow can be fumbled whether it’s your input or the server reg. Though it can be corrected with a fast YY that has another variable that can be fumbled or done to slow, either way it’s too many inputs compared to R R R R opposed to R R X Y Y R R or whatever mixture. BXR can get you to fumble an easy kill because blank melees no matter the version. Byyr is about the same bxb can be infuriating if you don’t claw as even as fast as you are clawers are always faster

They didn't age poorly they just became a different niche.

@@Repetoire aka aging poorly

Fortnite has good machinima making tools tbh

@@JaddyOG as opposed to what? And who gets to decide? The kids growing up watching tik tok? Is that really “poor”? I’d watch machinema before tik tok any day, but I guess I’ve just “aged poorly” 🤣 what a joke.

Machinima didn't die out as a medium, technology just brought the two landscapes (CGI animation and Machinima) fully together. Scripted fictional original media is what took the L. Source Filmmaker is unarguably just what happens when machinima is given full technological control over the landscape. It's still a game engine, it still has all those functions, you can pull in assets from any Source game and with a bit of EULA violating work any other game too. Koikatsu is another one, this time from Japan. It's a video game, but it's also a full 3D posing studio with mod support and tons of animations and custom animation support and all the other good stuff. You can and many people have made full 3D animated content with it. The kicker: most stuff made with either program is of the lewd variety. Machinima is a weird, weird format. Usually that stuff is what starts a format's success, but that only began with evolution due to the limitations and the success began elsewhere. There's other things too that blur the line (many from the same devs as Koikatsu) and that's what most of them are used for too.

Yeah, as someone whose been into melee for years now, I still don't like L-cancelling. Believe it or not there are actually uses for not using it though, as it makes edge-cancelling a lot easier, and reduces the risk for air dodging in those scenerios. For the most part though, pretty shit.

@@Gamesforus1 how does l cancelling make edge cancelling easier? those wouldn’t effect one another? also you cant l cancel air dodges so i’m not sure what you mean

@@taiklyzubkalmar3573 edgecancelling and inputting L cancel makes you airdodge so gotta be conscious about it there a better example is hard/soft press of triggers to L cancel to buffer/not buffer techs and the mixups around that

This is probably why there were so many complaints about WDing being removed but way less on L-Cancelling and why Rivals of Aether (a Melee inspired platform fighter) has wavedashing but not L-Cancelling and the landing lag is just inherently low

@@meleehater624 oh okay i understand what they're saying now. but idk if that really would be an issue since you would be hitting the L button before you land on plat not after. if you air dodge then it seems like you screwed up the timing for it anyways

Yeah, the Halo 1 script is written using little pieces of older scripts. She even still drops the occasional British slang from before Jen was cast and Cortana was British-accented.

Plus, it’s not the full line. Everyone takes it out of context. “Someone built it, so it must lead somewhere.” Yes, you could argue that might still be a little obvious, but that tunnel exists for a reason and it’s Chief’s job right now to find out where it leads.

@@King0fYou115 Still, that doesn't even make much sense. Norad has an opening into an unnatural cave too but it doesn't lead anywhere but deeper inside.

"Quick melee exploits make weapons like the sword and shotgun less useful..." This may seem unintuitive, but this is false imo. In fact, the exploits actually make the sword and shotgun MORE useful than they otherwise would have been. You would think that they would make it worse since they give you a quick close range kill, but the thing to keep in mind is that the shotgun and energy sword will more often than not beat a BXR. Now think about Halo 3. The reason the shotgun in Halo 3 struggles is because more often than not, players will try and back up to BR you. It is very hard to close the gap on people in Halo 3. However, in Halo 2, because melee is so good, it encourages players to approach you and wait around corners. So when you have a shotgun in your back pocket, it's much easier to bait someone into getting close to you. Additionally: "Stuff like the doubleshot makes the player less incentivized to hunt down weapons..." This is sort of true. In br+smg starts this is most definitely true. The player already has everything they need, however, Halo 3 doesn't have button combos and this is already true in that game as well. The BR would have been dominant anyway without button combos. The thing people don't realize is that the BR was never intended to be the starting weapon of Halo. In Halo 2, it was the SMG, and in Halo 3 it was the assault rifle. This is a big reason why most of the sandbox can be so underpowered in BR slayer, because they were never intended to compete with BR starts. However, in MLG BR starts, with no secondary, doubleshotting actually sort of encourages you to pick up a second weapon. Even though you won't use it, it does encourage you to pick up a secondary so that you can YY in case your doubleshot doesn't kill. Of course, this doesn't fix the problem entirely, it's more like a bandaid on an open wound, but it's not doubleshotting to blame for the rest of Halo 2's sandbox being weak. It was already weak.

halo 2s shotgun is broken with button combos, and actually makes it fire faster if done right

oh and i forgot to mention it allows you to melee even faster than the br

@@JustinBA007 Absolutely correct, the sword and shotgun in H3 are hardly used because spartans are really weak up close compared to H2. This guy actually played H2 unlike the video's author and like 95% of the commenters.

@@neato2765Idk how you can accuse a guy who is literally putting footage of him playing Halo 2 on the screen of not playing Halo 2

Well, if you get down into it, most fighting games are just street fighter clones-

Smash clone

@@Kilesfactor which is why the term is dumb i suppose

they also seem to be the cult following of their respective franchise

The wavedash and L-cancels we're both intentionally in melee. Sakurai himself had a post on some jp forum explaining that they noticed the wavedash during playtests and left it in. The L cancel is a continuation of the z cancel from 64, and also intentionally added.

And both game had a very complicated developement that negatively affected their respective team's physical o mental health.

@@camoking3609 Yea because elegant skill gap makes games WORTH PLAYING. Making casual bullshxt for casual players who are INCAPABLE of giving a fxck about mechanics has always been an asinine idea. Too bad 343 is filled with m0rons who have no idea how to make a truly great halo game.

To be fair you have to spend a resource to Roman Cancel. BXB, BXR, and Double Shot are free actions.

@@tgr3423 true

RC is an older mechanic than reload cancel

the game reminds a lot of melee. I think a good comparison is jump-canceling your grabs and smash attacks to counteract dash end lag. melee also gets a lot of shit from players from the newer smash games for the same reasons halo 2 does. but there's a reason it still pulls the highest viewership even against ultimate.

so it's missing link taunt cancels.

Yeah, but when it ruins the game for everyone except for a very small handful of players, then it just becomes a bad mechanic. Halo 2's sandbox is already unbalanced and way too favourable to the BR (and a few other select precision weapons) over other weapons, but at least using other weapons was possible. With these exploits, Halo's weapon variety goes right out the window. The game still has depth, but it's only depth in how well you can exploit the engine and predict other players. Now, that's not necessarily bad for an FPS, but it's terrible for Halo. Halo has always gone for (yet never fully reached) a strategy oriented gameplay loop with utilitarian weapons that all have a solid role in the sandbox. Halo 2 completely loses most of that with these exploits. Do you like Halo for its promise of a vast and well defined weapon selection? Well, you'll hate Halo 2 because it basically has 4 viable weapons that are all practically just slight variations of one gun, and 2 of those choices are power weapons. Do you like Halo's slower paced gameplay that has this inherent ebb-and-flow design where the flow of battle can change dynamically during a fight? You'll REALLY hate Halo 2, because your opportunity to actually react to a threat is almost entirely gone. Do you like how the simplicity of Halo's slower movement unexpectedly leads to a greater emphasis on tactics? Well good luck trying that in Halo 2, because movement is relegated to how well you can ninja, bounce, grenade jump, and sword fly. Tactics be damned. Whoever needed strategy in a Halo game anyway? No, what we REALLY needed was for Halo 2 to have as much competitive tech as Smash Melee, except this time there's no way to choose to play casually because of how matchmaking works. The only way you can limit that skill ceiling is to play customs, and good luck with that. Otherwise, you have to hope and pray that the next match of online isn't going to be another sweaty slogfest that feels like it was meant only for a very tiny selection of players. Emergent gameplay isn't great if it ruins the game for everyone else. Then it's just, well, exactly what Bungie said it was when making Halo 3: a bug that should never have been there in the first place.

@@themindfulmoron3790 sounds like ur just bad bud :(

@@Swix_FGC Actually, I myself got pretty good at the basic button combos. Being good at bad gameplay doesn't make the gameplay better.

@@themindfulmoron3790 They can pair like-skilled players.. then everyone benefits. Not just the dogshit halo players all halo games are made from the ground up for. Instead we have mediocre bullshit, with the game playing itself; and we really wonder why the game dies in less than a year.

@@themindfulmoron3790 Sounds like a skill issue

Yeah honestly It feels like people overlook CE multiplayer so much like in Mcc with online it’s the one I have the most fun with

I love and respect your work Jarek, but man, the magnum is the end all be all of CE. I just dont know how to put it other than that, nothing other than a power weapon can even begin to contest it.

@@rosymuscovy7967 This is just not true. The BR in Halo 2 is FAR more op in its respective game than the Magnum is in Halo CE. If the Magnum had a DMR skin no one would question it. It's just the utility weapon so you'll use it the most. Same as the BR and DMR. It loses up close to an AR, especially with a double melee which literally instakills. It loses up close to a shotgun. It loses at range to the sniper which is the most op sniper in the entire franchise. The point people often miss with CE is that not only does the magnum kill quickly but EVERY THING kills faster in CE. Throw in grenade tosses to pick up power ups/power weapons, ov jumps, backpack reloads, etc and you have a game with so much more depth than just the magnum. At the end of the day, people just started with Halo 2 and did not play enough CE to actually learn it, thus they don't know any thing about it past magnum good.

@@Jarekthegamingdragon ah, I wasnt thinking in terms of H2 BR vs CE Magnum, I was just thinking about it being OP in the CE sandbox in general. I’d say you definitely right about other weapons in CE being more viable than the other weapons of H2

My biggest issue with ce’s multiplayer is the spawns, but slayer is still good despite that

Lmao

Part of why I wanted Master Chief in Smash is because I just KNEW Sakurai would figure out a way to incorporate BXR and BXB into his moveset and it would have been sick.

@@Mekasoundwave nah, that's weird. I would prefer him and doom guy/slayer to go into mortal kombat

@@Mekasoundwave nah Sadly he'd probably just be a zone with an annoying number of projectiles

@@Qobp Snake echo fighter

I invented a button combo to rocket you over the top of people: BXBXBXA (while looking a certain way and falling a certain way). Used it once to dodge a sword on lockout.

You should 100% pick up MCC off gamepass or buy it. Halo's campaigns, especially coop, are insanely fun still. I'm playing through all the campaigns with 3 different people right now and all are loving it so far.

Git gud scrub

@@asju4 no thanks

You can dislike it all you want, but there are plenty of people out there who enjoy mastering difficult techniques even if there is no depth of strategy in their use (this isn't even true for Halo/Melee tech skill, but I'll set that aside). Hell, just look at rhythm games like Guitar Hero and DDR. All of the skill of those games revolves around correct execution and people still enjoy them. Blending this type of skill mastery with strategy can also be fun. If you want a purely strategic game, that's fine because there are games like chess. Ironically though, opponents to Halo button combos fail to realize they are complaining about tech skill in a first person shooter which is a genre that has ALWAYS revolved around being able to execute. There's no reason not to 4-shot someone, so should you just be able to lock onto the opponent's head? The argument kind of falls apart because it's really just players who like the tech skill requirement of aiming properly, but not the tech skill requirement of shooting quickly.

Melee would still be an awesome game if L-cancelling was automatic and free. I would not put L-cancelling in a game if I was designing and programming it. No this does not mean L-cancelling is bad. It's value neutral. Whether or not you like L-cancelling has no relation to it's worth

@@Bones0doesn’t make it not a skill issue

You're exactly right, and the flamewars on bungie's official forums over the subject were legendary. The Battle Rifle, aimed correctly, is always a four shot kill. BxR makes it a one hit + one shot kill. That's the same as a non-headshot with the sniper. Thing is, you can only do that to an entire slayer team before reloading a sniper, and each shot is spaced out more. A BR can do it to an entire big team battle team before needing to reload, and has a faster rate of fire. As cool as it is in concept, it's a glitch and had no balancing. There was an official way to do this with the BR: the noob combo. Overcharged plasma pistol and a headshot. That required finding a plasma pistol, charging it up, firing it's slow tracking charged round, having it hit, swapping guns, aiming a headshot, and landing it all before they kill you. That is the level of complexity Bungie intended that level of power to have.

I like invasion, the reach spartans vs elites gamemode, you should try it if you haven't. My problem was treating halo mcc like every other Contemporary shooter when it definitely isn't, and never truly was. Embrace the more arcade-y aspect and have silly fun with it.

Always heard Halo 2 had the best multiplayer

My tip for mcc is to avoid peak primetime hours. Few things make playing more miserable than nearly full sweat stacks of people who’ve been playing daily for years and years on end. Especially when they’re the type that will get two flag / bomb caps and spend the remaining time farming spawnkills for a k/d ratio no sane person cares about. Custom browser is also sometimes fun but doesn’t include 2.

I was a huge fan of Halo for the campaign only, and that is one space where Halo 2 was disappointing to me and a lot of others playing at the time. Playing as Arbiter was kind of cool, but ultimately nowhere near as interesting a twist as seeing a new faction appear in H1. 2 started a lot of the problems that became even more prominent in 3/ODST: less emphasis on fighting multiple factions simultaneously, and brutes replacing elites (with generally less interesting AI and shield behaviour). The earth focus fizzled out early on, and scarabs were realized in a very underwhelming way prior to 3. Enemy AI was noticeably less robust than H1 (it’s not uncommon to see elites get ‘stuck’ in place, seemingly unable to choose an action, a particularly notable flaw when duel-wielding gives the player better damage output). And the anti-climactic ending absolutely sucked, especially in a context where there would be years between episodes. For campaign, 3 was more polished and significantly improved some areas like scarabs (and flood unit diversity, to a degree), but was even worse in lacking multi-faction combat scenarios and originality, and had zero hostile elites. I didn’t feel like a Halo game matched the original in campaign quality and impact until Reach (albeit excelling in somewhat different ways).

The problem with MCC is that half the population are just absolute Halo god's, which was never the case in the glory days, so it's very hard to have a good game unless you are a Halo god

you got it reverse, halo is a part of guilty gear lore

@@TheSaival GG is just future Earth so in theory Halo had existed at some point.

I'm honestly surprised he didn't bring it up in this video, it's a very good example of what glitches/unintended mechanical depth can do to a game (also melee but that's too easy and not a shooter haha)

Gunz is a competitive multiplayer game released before the year 2010 with an insular fanbase and oodles of advanced techniques never intended by the developers, so yeah, it's a Leon Massey game lmao

Kjank in general is worth a look. If SD Gundam Capsule Fighter wasn't fucking dead again I'd have suggested it already.

BXB and BXR is fun, but double shots etc are pretty last resort type of things. There are a whole lot more combos than what this video shows though. They're pretty novel I guess.

idk button combos have always been pretty fun to me. the arguments and concerns in this video are all valid but ultimately this comes down to opinion. personally I feel that Halo 2's button combos only improved the experience. It's the main reason why people even still play Halo 2.

Please lose the term skill ceiling from your vocab. The term is skill GAP. Tic tac toe has skill ceiling. This aint tic tac toe

you can't compare the halo trilogy with infinite cause game development is different and hard. it's taking a bit longer yea, but i can argue that some of the features you love in halo 2 did need to be patched in after release too, such as fixing split screen problems early on. yeah, it sucks that halo infinite isn't gonna get a nicer coat of paint and physics (and co-op, that one did hurt) til after the release. i can say i'll want games without crunch compared to people getting sick or having the game studio as their second home without seeing their child for months.

@@sharpen193 "Is different" how. How are things supposedly harder when technology has only improved.

@@zappodude7591 you're right i changed after a year

Shilling doesn't pay, kids.

@@zappodude7591 exactly, I was sarcastic.

Yeah I feel you. I love seeing players find things like this, it never ceases to amaze me what exploits people find. But the video is right to point out that while these mechanics are a skill check with at least some decision-making, they don't add a lot of strategic value, they mostly just outclass the other strategies. I certainly wouldn't be against incorporating them as intentional mechanics so long as it was balanced properly in the broader context (another commenter pointed out these specific button combos make melee weapons obsolete and render more specialized guns less valuable)

this. it's just "you need to be able to push these buttons, in this specific pattern, every single time, or you lose." it's completely arbitrary. it's one reason I love how modern games recieve support, and patches. instead of breeding this game which is now permanently afflicted with this obssession over a literal defect, you get to play with it for a few weeks, and then it vanishes from existence. "bu- but it increases the ski-" I literally don't care about the fucking skill gap. arbitrary things that increase the skill gap are bad game design, flat out. I can increase the skill gap of halo, by halving the damage output of all guns, doubling player movement speed, and requiring each player to input randomly generated dance dance revolution minigame to reload. it will empirically make more differences between skilled an unskilled players, but just because you could do that, does not mean that you SHOULD do that. there is more to consider when making a game than "muh skill gap.". I can generate an infinite amount of ideas that make halo have a larger skill gap. I could make it so that each player has to stand on their head an wiggle there toes while they play or they instantly die. arbitrary increases to the skill gap are just madness. it's more important to view it from the lens of actual game design, rather than from the lens of "does me being able to do "the thing" provide me an advantage over a player that cannot do "the thing""

See I disagree.. I don't see it as any different from devs implementating headshots for more damage. Headshots are strictly superior to body shots. Whether or not you can pull off said headshots in an engagement is left to the player's skill and abilities.. and the same can be said for executing those button combos. One calls for accuracy with the aim of a thumbstick, the other calls for precision timing of button presses.. both are dominant strategies that kill faster than their alternatives, but both are also skills that can be improved with practice. It's all about risk vs reward, right?

Skill gap and skill ceiling are not the same thing. Pro Halo and Smash players can still crush people without using wavedashing or bxr. Games need to have an execution barrier, even if low, to keep a an action game from becoming a board game. Most of these glitch tech is only noticeable if someone on your same skill level took the time to learn them and that gave them the edge over you, which is a good thing. The bad thing about them is if they arent transparent and evident. "I just blocked this Falco's d-air and he still had frame advantage? How?" And "I was ahead in shots and this dude pulled two shots out of his ass, how?" Are the bad experiences I had with both L-cancelling and Doubleshooting.

That is literally what every completive game has

I'm the biggest Halo 2 stan, and I never liked midship. I just don't find it fun. It's like shipment in cod4, where sometimes its fun, but other times its miserable.

Thought I'd see you here, always nice to see some OG players still around. This vid is OKish, I mean at least the guy actually bothered to learn SOME of the button combos and how they add to gameplay before just discounting them outright. But, he does not really seem to understand much beyond the surface level of H2 gameplay. Like 12:44, that take is complete nonsense, button combos do absolutely change how you can approach a fight. If you have the skill to RBX someone, you can play much more aggressively, and take fights that would otherwise be too risky. In the same way, if someone is running at you without shooting, you know they are going to try and BXR you, and you can change your response by trying to outplay them with something like a crouch BXB or just keeping your distance. Point being, combat button combos are never some kind of crutch that will simply make players better under all circumstances, there are ALWAYS tradeoffs. A good player knows how to manage these tradeoffs, and read situations to determine what should be done. You can see this pretty easily by watching high level gameplay, it isn't just people quading and BXRing all the time. Hell, there are plenty of great players who use combat glitches very rarely because they do not fit with their style of play. The funny thing about takes like OP's, is that the most used and most useful H2 glitches are the "noncombat" glitches like nade reloading and YY/BXing out of a reload, yet he does not mention them at all. These are the glitches that players should always use because they have no downsides, not the combat glitches. I wish vids like this one would be made by people who really knew what they were talking about, or who would at least be willing to go the extra mile and learn the game enough before saying anything. Oh well.

This. Honestly, I think that question is what defines a cheap exploit: does it add depth to the game, or just a skill gate? Every game is a branching tree of decisions, and anything that effectively removes decisions from that tree isn't good for the game.

@@jackspade5316 It's like adding a gun to a sword game like the gun is clearly the best weapon but it invalidates anyone who are willing to try a sword

Legitimately can't understand why people do this.

Bad take that one can only have if they do not understand the intricacies of melee

@@lordmew5 Ah yes, the intricacies of a mandatory additional and specifically timed button press after every aerial-move in a very aerial-move heavy game. Riveting. L-cancelling is an objectively bad mechanic. It's mandatory because it speeds up your character significantly, yet it doesn't increase the deph of the game in any way. It's just a needless skill barrier. Imagine if in Street Fighter you had to press the select button slightly after every punch and kick because the devs decided doing so reduces end-lag. That's how stupid L-cancel is.

@@madnessobserverlopez9233 I think the fact that light shields and upward/downshield DI can make your opponent miss their L-cancel is one way(maybe the only way) L-cancelling adds depth to Melee. This is a really high level technique that only gets used occasionally, but I don't think it's the worst game mechanic even among children platform fighters. Tripping in Brawl, ridiculous buffer windows in Ultimate, others take the cake in my opinion

@@pwnmonkeyisreal What you described isn't L-cancelling adding depth to the game at all, what adds depth to that interaction is light shielding and DI, which are actually good mechanics. The buffer window in Ultimate only feels bad because of the additional 6 frame delay the game/device is programmed with, and even then it's very doable to work with offline, online is a different story though, but Ultimate's online would suck even without input delay. And tripping in Brawl while it's also an awful mechanic, it actually doesn't affect the game as much as L-cancelling from a player control perspective. You *have to* L-cancel every damm aerial, tripping is a rare 1% occurence after a dash that just doesn't happen nowhere near as often as people make it out to be.

@@madnessobserverlopez9233 That interaction with light shielding and shield DI is the combination of L-canceling and shield DI mechanics, so the L-cancel IS adding depth. In other words, if L-canceling didn't exist and everyone just had lower landing lag, there would be no reason to try and mess up your opponent's L-cancel timing. You can't attribute all the depth to the "good" mechanic in that situation. They are both important and that interaction would not exist without either of them. the buffer in Ultimate means you if buffer an input, you are essentially locked out of any other move, even if you want to react to something else. Making players feel like they are not in control of their character is much worse. And just because tripping is rare doesn't mean it isn't objectively awful for competitive play, although I guess it is quite funny as a casual player. You don't HAVE TO l-cancel every aerial, and there are combos for certain characters that still work, like Stomp-->Knee at some percents.

I was gonna say the same thing, this video applies to ds3 pvp so much

@@conormckenna7796 i currently don't play any fighting Game but i watch a lot of content about fighting games because dark souls PVP is closer to a fighting Game than any other RPG. Every fighting Game concept applies

@@fludeo1307 it's really true