Handloading PART VI, How to Measure Cartridge Overall Length ~ GunBlue's Complete Guide 

😂. I have to do the same. I've I've been a meticulous note-taker for over 30 years because my memory just isn't enough to get through things that matter to me and I find when I take notes, the act of doing it helps get the content ingrained in my mind.

7x

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I am sorry for your loss. Losing my dad was very lonely experience because we did so much together, often in the outdoors. I am green when it comes to handloading for accuracy too. All of the Captains videos about the subject are the best I have found. I just feel like many of the other guys out there who showcase hardware, do the videos for personal profit. I don't mind that at all, but I would prefer they mention that they are. The captain truly wants to pass on his experience that is his gift and our reward. We are lucky to be able to learn it! This is valuable stuff!

@@Jeff_Seely I look forward with great anticipation to watching mr blue . It's going to be great when he tells some of the spicy stories . I've been hand loading ever since the stupid shortage happened . I can proudly say I got some of the last primers that were 50 - 60 bucks with haz mat fee . The first time I bought some I bought a hundred from midway for 5 bucks . I just bought a 1000 brick for 99 bucks plus haz mat . I was nervous at first but after you get over the initial blow your self up thing by devolping a system with all the checks and balances to ensure safety the rest just fell into place . I don't load hot loads or push limits because I don't want to use more components than I have to . I did not start hand loading for development . I started out of necessity. Sure I have made some mistakes . Sure God was watching out for me a couple of times . I don't msg dump and I don't shoot every weekend . Since it is a two hour drive to my spot. I take my time and enjoy the fruits of my labor . I wish my dad could enjoy it with me . But I'm sure he occupied trying to convince God to smite psycho democrats .

Psycho Democrats indeed. They've justify themselves in some of the most backwards notions and are fundamentally flawed simply because they've turned their backs on the Lord and have not kept God's statutes. The Isrealites constantly lived among these types and they did well when they kept God's statutes and thy suffered when they did not. We have to keep God's statutes and stay prayed up among these folks. God wont forsake us if we put God first! God commands us to love them but not their ways! My way of loving them is to tell them what is right. Tell them about the gosphel and let them decide how they conduct themselves. I am enjoying reloading. It is a great way of putting 100% of my mind on something. I am a programmer and my mind is constanly on code developement to the point where I just need to train myself away or I get weary. If I clean the house, my mind is still code. If I am paying bills, still on code. But while reloading, my mind is on safely measuring powder and seating primers. I use Captain's tools and methods and my rounds have already surpassed Hornady factory match ammo, in terms of accuracy. I watch Captain again and again on shooting instruction and he helps me with that too.

@@Jeff_Seely THANKS JEFF . ITS PROBABLY FOR THE BETTER BECAUSE MY FATHER COULD NOT STAND SOCIALISTS AND IF HE WERE STILL ALIVE HE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE HAD TO DISPATCH A FEW THEN I WOULD HAVE HAD TO HELP HIM ON THE LANB AND THAT WOULD HAVE TOTALLY INTERFERED WITH MY LOAD PROGRESSIONS .

I don't push the limits I stay right in the middle so if by chance I'm off by a grain either way I'm still within the parameters of safety .

George1mac I've never found it to be that critical.

That is something that got on my mind as well. I have bullets here from Nosler and hornady with those plastic tips that can vary 0.010 from each other. Is that difference negligible?

@@artsandclouds probably if you maintain 0.030 inch leade.

Watch again, maybe you will understand what he is doing.

I'm a member of that "cult" two times over.

Well theres at least 3 of you! I jest, im sure its a decent cartridge, ive not researched it myself so i cant really comment.

Phil Ward love the 257 Bob. It’s making a comeback for sure. I enjoy loading for it

Hi Jim , I use 6mm diameter dowel for the barrel and 8mm dowel to insert the projectile. I use painters tape to secure the base of the projectile to the 8mm stick. I was lucky and found two plastic spacers that I can slide into place. He can’t give you specifications on projectiles he doesn’t know. And on the length of the throat of your specific rifle. I’m happy to help you figure it out. Cheers

I am in the same situation. Just got back in to reloading after 35 years. This information is in depth and well presented . Thank you very much GunBlue490

Bryan Toth Sure I do! And better. That range of overall length is the ideal, but I have many loads that come nowhere near that range. My Remington 700 in 22-250 is throated for the longest 60 grain fat ogives, and most standard 50 and 55 grain Sierra bullets are over an 1/8th of an inch from contact. Factory loads are lucky if they are a full .25" from contact, and they shoot MOA or better. My 257 Roberts shoots some of its most accurate groups with sharply pointed 75 grain bullets in a chamber throated for 120 grain bullets. That rifle is a Model 70 Featherweight with a spaghetti barrel, and drills 3/8 inch groups with short 75 and 87 grainers. My wife's old Remington pump shot short 125 grain Sierra spitzers into half inch. Overall length is a contributing factor to accuracy, and it certainly can help when it's practical, especially for the custom chambered bench rifle, but it's way overblown out of proportion. THE MOST significant accuracy issue, apart from good loads themselves, is to place that bullet looking down the center of the bore, so it gets a good run, and then it really matters little how far it jumps, in my wide experience. If you watch the Olympic skeleton, luge and bobsled racers, it's the ones that get a straight start who have the best chances, but the ones that bump the sides starting from the gate are like a bullet off kilter. Actually, close positioning without being centered simply jams the rifling worse and forces the bullet, rather than guiding it. I speak about these issues and how to control them in a couple of other videos.

Thanks for the quick and informative answer. Looks like I'm in need of another reloading tool. Since you have this wealth of knowledge I'd like to ask you one more question if I may. Another subject I find little info online is what to do when you've made your ladder loads and they aren't getting the job done. After tweaking the oal with no success, what would be the next step in tuning that load. Different powder, primer, bullet, etc.? Thanks, Lou

First, you must have a base from which to start, and I don't know what your measure of accuracy demands. The rifle must be capable of consistent groups, or no amount of load tinkering will do anything. If you know it can shoot accurately, and has done so in the past with some particular ammo, that's a good sign. If it can shoot consistently circular with factory ammo, even if it's not tiny groups, that's a good sign. Certain signs are evident with a troubled rifle in need of assistance: Stringing of shots east and west can be wind, but can also be a poorly bedded receiver, a bad (heavy and/or creepy) trigger, a poor rest or rest position, and shooting technique (uneven cheek pressure, poor trigger control). A solidly bedded barrel can often shoot quite consistently, though the performance will be limited. However, a free floated barrel allows natural harmonics to be consistent, but it can also allow a loose receiver to really swing everywhere. Free floating and a solid action are imperatives that go hand in hand. I prefer to allow at least .050 clearance around the barrel, which is sufficient to allow a barrel to vibrate without collision. The old dollar bill rule will cause more flyers than a flock of starlings. Vertical, and diagonally strung groups is a typical sign of barrel slapping the stock, or barrel interference. Check those indicators first, and correct any deficiencies. I prefer standard, solid sand bag rests over any kind for the tightest groups. Rolled sleeping bags, padded blocks of wood, and a great number of the expensive cradles and sleds do not provide for accurate, consistent groups either. Check your crown and be certain it's clean, with no dings. You will need a strong light and a strong 10X magnifier, like a jeweler's loupe, to see the crown closely. A slight imperfection there will send bullets off course. Check your scope mount and be sure it's solid. I once watched a poor guy trying to chase his bullets back onto the paper, and when I checked his scope, it was actually loose. Don't fret over lapping, which is ridiculous. None of my 1/4 minute rifles ever saw lapping compound. Scope quality is important, but you need not spend a fortune. Names like Bushnell, Nikon, and certainly Leupold will shoot as solidly as any Zeiss or Swarovski, but I have seen inexpensive scopes that couldn't hold a zero. If you are using a Weaver style base, be sure to seat each ring solidly against the front (muzzle direction) of their grooves before you strap a scope into them, or they will use the scope as a tug of war rope. The rest is all important. For many years, I shot with a variety of different makes of tri-pod style rests which all worked well, but really, only a benchrest style rest can provide solid performance. I often use a light, portable Hoppe's rest for informal testing, but my Caldwell Rock BR is certainly far more stable, and can slice groups in half, yet it's still quite portable and within reason cost-wise. The more you can spend on one, the better. A rear rest is just as vital, and will make or break your groups. With my Caldwell, I use a Protektor Custom rear bag with the high bunny ears, which grasps the rifle in a vise-like hold. Toss some talcum powder on the leather of the front and rear before shooting, to allow the gun to slide. As for the "ladder" or more traditionally called incremental loads, follow my proportions to be sure they are correct for the case volume. I don't know what powder you are using for what cartridge, but it's generally easier to find a good load with a forgiving single base extruded powders than with fussy ball powder. Ball powders drop perfectly uniform loads that often shoot inaccurately, and are subject to whims of temperature and chamber heating. Extruded powders drop inconsistent loads that typically shoot accurately under all conditions, over a wide range of charges. It's never a bad idea to start with the suggested loads in a loading book, and work from there. I have not necessarily found the best loads to be the suggested ones, but I have never had a bad suggested load, ever. Certain powders just seem to give good results with a very wide range of cartridges, and such names are any of the IMR series, the Hodgdon extruded (which are copies of the old IMR [but never interchange them]), the Reloder extruded powders, and Accurate extruded powders. I have yet to find a medium size case that didn't absolutely love Reloder 15 (R-15). And my powder dispenser drops it like ball powder. Now that's not to suggest that ball powders can't work. I have had terrific results with BL-C2 and CFE-223 in my .223 loads, and they are very consistent. And I have had wonderful groups with H-414 with .22-250 loads when they feel like it, but the accuracy can drop like a bomb any given day without warning. I would rather have a consistent 1/2 inch rifle than a load that shoots 1/4 inch one day and 1-1/2 inches the next. Start with flat base bullets. They are more accurate. Boat tails are great for long range performance, but are not necessarily the best group-ers at intermediate ranges out to 300 yards, which is why bench rest shooters rarely use them. Once you establish a good load, then try the boat tails if you need them. Use standard primers for any loads under 60 to 65 grains, period. .222 and .223 based cartridges use hotter primers, but the manufacturers have already factored that into the standard ones. All the old small rifle primer cartridges, except for the Hornet are long obsolete, and all that's being sold are for the .223 type rounds. Finally, and I probably should have mentioned this first, MOST standard weight .224" bullets are NOT made to spin at the huge centrifugal forces that current 7-inch twist rifles do, at the speeds that the 223 can launch them. They have jackets made thin to explode on contact with standard twists, and will distort in flight. If you are using a fast twist barrel, you need a heavy jacket to go with it, made for high stress. My Colt AR-15 A4 with a 7 inch twist will group into a 2-1/2 inch circle with most bullets up to 50 grains unless I use the Sierra bullets designed for 22-250 velocities and stresses. My best so far is the Sierra 50 or 55 grain Spitzer, and even the boat tail version works well. Never use a high explosive bullet designed with a thin jacket. Those were made to give 22-250 explosiveness to the velocities of standard 12 and 14 inch twist .222 and .223 Remingtons, and they just won't take abuse. I have no idea who's brilliant idea it was to plug 7 inch twist barrels onto AR rifles, when any National Match shooter is perfectly happy with nothing faster than 8 or 9 inches, often even 10 or 12 inches. It's a fad without a need. There is only one bullet that I know of that might possibly call for a 7 twist, which is rarely sold. 7 twist radically reduces the number of bullets that will hang together without distortion under high spin rates. Based on the number of 55 grain FMJ bullets sold, those same loaders would find great happiness and more accuracy over a wider range of loads with a standard 12 inch A2 barrel strapped on. That's all I can offer.

No need to respond. I should have offered more information. I've been reloading pistol for 4 yrs. This past year I purchased 4 Howa 24" varmint barreled actions and mounted them on Boyd's laminated thumb hole stocks. Free floated with tang and recoil lug bedded. Triggers at 2 lbs. Lapped bottom rings for Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44 scopes. Have made loads for each rifle in ladder pattern but have yet to shoot them. Two months away.Was asking for load solutions in advance of any accuracy problems. Anyway, thanks again and enjoy your weekend. Lou

So did I but that is O. K. !

You did right, I cant see the point of all this messing around with tape unless you are flat broke.

So did I but I think it's worth it as someone new to bottleneck rifle reloading to give me confidence I've got it right.

If you are doing high grade accuracy rifle ammo in small quantities, it's a simple process of pushing out the media with a sharp object. I use a turkey trussing needle. Otherwise, any such debris will simply blow out by the primer and ignite the powder with no hazard whatsoever. Primers are very powerful and will easily take care of it. A stuck particle can't possibly blow the gun up.

@@GunBlue490 Thank you for your reply. Your knowledge is highly respected by me and a lot of reloaders. I know that to much powder can cause a problem like I know that to little power can cause a dangerous pressure spike. After over 200,000 reloads I had a round blow out the rear left side of a case in 223. I thought that a piece or a corn cob, or a clump, could have caused a pressure problem that could have exceeded the pressure. Also after searching the internet and youtube I could find no video or articules about tumbling media stuck in the case and the problem it could cause. They say if you reload long enough you will have a problem no matter how careful you are. I guess it was just my time for a round to blow. Thank you again. Stay well.

@@baugwan1 Thank you for your support. Any case failure would be from either a weakened case, or an over-loaded one. On what you told me, I suspect the weakened case, as it's pretty difficult to charge most .223 cases with such a heavy charge when using standard .223 ball powders. When using a multi-stage automated press, stick to powders that nearly fill a case, so stuck powder in the hopper dropping down can't give an overcharge without you seeing it, and always look at the level of powder before seating a bullet. BL-C2 and CFE223 are excellent in that regard.

John Giff All guns have recessed crowns of various shapes, which is why the method works. The measurement is taken from the same relative position at the longest portion of the barrel, and not from the actual bore.

Thankyou! for your quick reply.

Oleksandr Ananiev Commercial 308 Winchester chambers are throated long enough to accept commonly used 180 grain flat base bullets, with clearance to the rifling. Factory ammo is typically made to shorter OAL than can be achieved by the handloader for a given cartridge, due to this generous chambering. I don't know if your bullets are slender target styles, or boat tail hunting bullets with shorter profiles. 165 grain bullets with boat tails have very short shanks that don't leave much latitude for adjustments inside the neck, fore and aft, if you wish to have full contact with the case of 308. That's quite true of a great many calibers, and very few can be loaded ideally. I can't reach anywhere close to optimal overall length with 50 grain boat tail bullets in my new 222 Remington, but those bullets shoot 1/3rd of an inch groups routinely. Same for 75 or 87 grain bullets in my 257 Roberts, which shoots half inch or less. First of all, unless you are shooting beyond 400 yards, there is no practical point in using boat tails. Flat base bullets are generally more accurate anyway, and boat tails only extend trajectory and resist wind drift over extended ranges. Secondly, slight compromises can certainly be made without loss of bullet seating strength. After all, the 300 Win Mag seats only .264, and the old 300 Savage got by with only .221 contact, which is less than optimal for .224 bullets! I would feel entirely comfortable within those bounds, unless you are using the ammo under strenuous conditions or in a hard cycling gun. Never allow a bullet shank to sink below the case neck where the ogive is buried. As for hunting profiles, most 165 grain boat tail bullets have almost identical shank length as their 150 grain flat base counterparts of the same brand, and the 150 grain bullet with the 308 is bread and butter, so a hunting profile 165 grain bullet should seat with decent overall length, and will be reasonably close to the lands, even if not within .030 inch.

With very few exceptions, actual chamber dimensions using modern bullets can be expected to be considerably longer than stated overall lengths, which are often based on bullets that have more rounded gives that contact the rifling with shorter lengths. As long as you have approximately one caliber deep case insertion, the round feeds reliably, and fits your magazine, don't worry about the listed overall lengths, which are only industry guidelines for cartridge size. Any time you have a rifle that will permit a longer cartridge that fits the magazine and seats deeply enough, you are very fortunate, because it reduces pressure and may allow a slight increase in powder capacity, provided you carefully work up loads that are safe and accurate. Generally, the most accurate length is found between 15 to 30 thousandths from the rifling.

Leave the cannelure into the case. You don't need to crimp 270 win anyways. If you must crimp them load them a little longer to the crimp groove. Winchester power point's tend to be a little longer in the front portion of the bullet.

I also have this same issue with a Rem 700 270 Win. Any additional insight would be great on the topic.