Hands-off 3D printing! 

Uhh so to clarify, without your custom made ram guard, it was using the cooling fan to push prints off??? I've been using metho or IPA to clean the same garolite sheet for almost a year now and it's good as new using default settings, im not sure that custom coating is doing them any favours. Super appreciate the review! I still prefer to change by hand but a print farm application would be a different story.

For the price, I'm surprised it doesn't at least come with a tool head shield like what you had to design

I like the robot voice edits. I really don't like it when there are *CORRECTIONS on screen. I'm often listening while looking at another window.

At my previous workplace, we used three MK3S printers to print enclosures for our custom made electronics for our clients. I would create two G codes for the printers: one which would run for 8 hours (or a bit less), and the other which ran for 16 hours (or a bit less again). This way the printer was running 24/7 during weekdays, and a colleague would start the 16 hour G code on weekends as well, since he was every day at the office, even on weekends, at least for a few hours. To equip all three printers with a Qinly would cost us 1650 dollars, or 1620 euros. I could have two more MK3S+ printers for that, or four clones, and still have enough money left over to buy a Raspberry Pi 3B+ to run a second instance of Repetier Server Pro (which we've bought) and some original Prusa sheets (if we'd go for the clones). It would be better, since there's no need to tweak profiles and parallel printing is faster and more flexible.

Cool to see the prusa sponsorship! Hopefully more people move on to printables

Thanks Tom, I used one of these to create parts for a local 3D printer part manufacture because they were in a pinch. It was a part they used in packaging. I used mine on an Ender 3. After I got it dialed in, it was set it and forget it. I lost about 3% of the parts due to first layer inconsistency, but I ran it for weeks, turning out over 400 pieces and I didn't have to do anything at all. I would do it again for sure.

FYI you can also do this with the Prusa Textured build plate. I run a 3D printing business, and we have about 8 machines using them. They work great. We find that 70 degrees results in zero issues with PLA sticking, and prints pop right off around the 25 degree C mark.

Real talk, Tom: I love that your reviews are so honest and unflinching. I hate how objective information gets twisted for profit, so massive kudos for sticking to your integrity on these!

In the beginning of the pandemic, I was printing PPE face shield headbands in PETG. I've got an Anycubic Chiron with the Ultrabase bed. I had built a temporary enclosure to aid with energy usage reduction, and I set up a 24 hour job that would use g-code and an Octoprint plug-in to trigger a gpio relay to power a cooling fan mounted to the side of the enclosure between parts to assist with bed cool-down to release the part (took about 5 minutes), and had a small bumper attached to the toolhead to remove the part, and a paper guide sheet to direct the parts to a basket sitting on the floor under the printer. Worked reliably like this for weeks churning out hundreds of headbands.

You're totally right about the price / convenience aspect of deciding whether something is worth the money, trouble free solutions can be worth their weight in gold. Great sponsor, Mk3 owner for 4+ years which is still going strong, so very glad it's my first printer.

I highly appreciate the length of the video :)

As a proof of concept it seems really promising. Get a G10 plate, hook up a gcode operated fan for rapid plate cooling and some kind of air cylinder with a bumper to push parts off the plate at a less aggressive angle and it just might work.

Great video, Thanks Tom. Wow, that is crazy expensive. Our Autopilot program is only $50 or free with MatterControl Pro. And the bed surface that auto releases is just Garolite with a scratch improvement coating. I did a ton of testing on this surface, it is not proprietary. You don't need to tilt your printer, just add a flexible plastic sheet to the front and that's it.

don't forget to DISABLE pruge lines, brims, skirts and basically everything that needs supports or a rafts (as rare as rafts are, they are sometimes useful)!

Mingda Rock3 Pro has an amazing print bed. It's textured glass and DOESNT have some odd sticky coating preapplied to it. The result is a bed that sticks when hot, releases easy when cold. Mine is perfectly clean after thousands of prints unlike a lot of other beds which always have traces of prior prints left behind.

I remember seeing a reddit post where someone built something similar but with an arm that came down to remove the parts from the bed. Seem better than have you x carrige crash into your prints everytime.

the price is outrageous for what you get

The continuous print plug-in for octoprint is great. You can even manage multiple networked printers running non-stop from a single instance of octoprint.

Considering the price and the reduced build volume, it's probably worth pointing out that for the price of a mk3 plus this kit you can also buy 3 Prusa MINIs. If your goal is rapid mass production of sufficiently small parts, I would guess that that's the better option.

Oh that noise it made when it was trying to ram the part off made me shiver

Great video, I really appreciate a non-biased viewpoint when it comes to videos like these.

I reviewed the Quinly system last year and had many of the same issues as you. While I was ready to accept the finicky settings, I'm sad to see that the software still is as unfinished as when I tried it (admittedly it was a beta back then, but doesn't look much different from what you showed). The release times also change dramatically depending on your ambient tem. I tried it during winter with ambient around 18C and it only needed around 15min. But in summer it took often an hour or more to finally cool down. They argue that most printfarms would be climate controlled anyways but who wants to pay to cool to 18C when 23C would be fine otherwise too?

I did the same with octoprint and the "Continuous Print" plugin. The Creality glass build plate worked great with PLA, the textured Prusa build plate with PLA and PETG. No need to tilt the printer or anything. I just built a slide for the parts kicked off the bed.

I agree that out of all my printers, my first choice for “it’ll just work” is my prusa. Also, it has the best bed out of all of them, and any solution that gets rid of that would be a non starter for me. If I were to emulate this system, I’d just use petg and the textured plate, octoprint (as you suggested), and your guard in addition to the printed bits they have used, and I think that would work consistently due to the petg always popping off the bed when it gets cool enough

seriously i've been doing this exactly like this for around 5 years. you don't need a fancy bed just use glass. I don't even have the printer at an angle, just use the hotend with a shield to push the print off when it's cooled down. you put the cool down gcode in the post script in octoprint. bit of python and you can grab orders and print it. I've not touched my printer for around a year, just walk in the room, pick up the prints off the table, clean them up and post them. job done

They should sell the print bed separately. A print bed that reliably holds all filaments and releases them after cooling for about 30 € or so would certainly be a success.

I just got a kit in too, great to see your thoughts Tom. I can definitely see that ROI like you said, but yes, it is not cheap. Had the 3D Que team on a podcast and I definitely see the value in the product but yes, very specific use case. Love the ram, will have to do something like that for ours!

I was always fond of the conveyer belt 3D printer design. I think this need to be revisited.

That price point is nuts, it’s bordering on the point where you might as well buy another printer. Great video though!

Man you make good reviews! I love learning about whatever you're testing on this channel even though I will never buy 99% of it lol

So in the end, you get about 20% increased productivity (using the Skull and plate of Benchies as the more realistic scenarios for a print farm), for a roughly 50% increase in price. A second printer gets you 100% more productivity for 100% more money. Additionally, the productivity increase of the Que system is basically negative when you are in a tight deadline (and it's okay for you to babysit the printer 24/7 until the deadline), because you have to wait for stuff to cool down. So things don't really line up here... Thanks for the review though!

I mean.. with PLA, PLA plus, or PLA-F my plain old glass beds stick like glue at 60-70 and slide off zero effort at room temp. My old school original ender 3 bed can actually print without heat as if its blue tape. By dialing in the bed level I can get some of my products to stick just enough with zero heat that it can be bumped off easily by the fan shroud into a bin (using the old sheet o' paper taped to the bed to keep things from getting jammed under there.) With no bed heat up and down saves a huge amount of time. as long as there are no major shifts in ambient room temp I can keep running for a full spool no problem. Cost $0. OH! and these systems are running non-stop thanks to YOUR awesome tutorial on how to run octoprint on an old android phone ;) so much appreciated.

Interresting topic. Top quality as always

I feel like... the half hour Cooldown is very unimaginative; in that... seriously just add a PC fan aimed at the bed to help it cool faster, and use gcode to turn it off and on (like you would LEDs), and that would allow you to improve that cool down time really well.

The Video was very interesting. I ordered an set for one of my prusa minis without a hub. Today I had the time to install all and i haven't any issues with the gcode transfer. Ok you can't change the quantity of the running que but you can extend the que with new quantity of the same gcode.

For the cost of that, you may as well just buy Prusa Mini. Puts the manual swapping numbers back along side the Quimby

I have the 3D Que Autofarm set up with 2 CR6SE printers and I love it! There have been several upgrades to the software since this review, which is pretty typical with reviews and new systems to the market. I do print different parts quite easily by uploading them into the queue. The main purpose of this system is to make it more efficient for Print farms. Which you do say in your review that it makes sense for people wanting to print on repeat. It has saved me a TON of time and money to use the system. They also do have a way to connect remotely so you can control things from the Autofarm dashboard. Still a great review, but I just wanted to point out that the developers have some a bunch of upgrades over the last 10 months. They are also very responsive if there are any questions or requests to adjust things, 😊😊

I was thinking of a print bed with release pins, like you get on injection moulds. Would be extra weight on the print bed, but you could use them only where needed.

man you went all out in testing for this video, i learned a lot watching this thank you!!! (even how to replace the 5v fan loololol)

Everyone have his own use case for a 3D printer. I usually design something and print 1, 2 sometime 3 copies of it. The design process requires prototyping, which requires printing parts of the thing to see if the measurement and clearance is right. Overall, I don't have any use for something like that. However, I appreciate that some people help to improve the technology by trying different solutions for some of those issues. We are slowly getting closer to a "public ready" solution. Although, I'm not sure if I will see it in my life time...

i have a question how is the nozzle cleaned betwenn each print. I have a cr10s4 with the hemera revo hotend and i need to clean it every time when i want to use it because there is always something on the nozzle after every print

Charts are Back!!! I love charts!!!

You could use a current sensor that turns on a cooling fan for the bed when current drops to cut down on cooling time.

Any system that uses the delicate print head as a clearing ram is an instant no no.

I did the "clearing the bed with the machine" a couple of times while being remote from the printer. Printer was just horizontal like normal. And a normal bed. I haven't done it enough to automate it yet. For sticking to the bed: small prints stay put after printing, while bigger prints tend to come loose after cooling. Current print: 18 hours, 324 small items. I need to go there to take them off.

I also do same model Rack L connector to my customer, now I do plastic mold to produce it. Total high I put is 80mm,

use a conveyor belt and a nuc/old pc + pico for prints wich is cheaper and more modular as controller and the belt gives it a really really big efficiency increase wich has been done before

This is cool we need to try this. thank you for tip

"upfront price doesnt matter" said no one ever

Why is the filament coming from beyond of the frame edge, like in 12:05?

Video idea for you, running klipper on non raspberry pi single board computers and/or old android phones. A lot of people are waiting on raspberry pi’s for klipper when rock/orange/banana/etc. pi’s may be good enough. I know you also did a video on running octoprint on android phones and it seems like it’s possible to do the same for klipper, though it’s a longer and more tedious process. Just some ideas! I think with the raspberry pi shortage and peak of klipper interest going on now there would be a lot of interest for low cost raspberry pi alternatives

I have used an MQTT plugin with Octoprint, Node Red, and a smart plug with Tasmota firmware to automatically turn off my 3D printers a few minutes after a job completes. That way if I am there I can swap print beds and run another job right away. If not the printer shuts down so it is not powered up for hours while not in use. Saves wear on the fans and power supply. With this system, you could use a similar setup with a fan pointed at the print surface to reduce cool down time between jobs.

Interesting concept. A DIY mod like this could be a nice second live for my mk3 after I got my XL or something similar.

I did modified my Prusa mini's hotend fan duct, so now it has a lifter part (Thanks open-source!). The idea is roughly the same. The flex bed is taped to the heating panel just to be sure, and a sheet of paper between them in the front so the part won't fall into the mechanics. Only problem is, when i lift far from the supported side, then the whole x gantry twists and stays like that that makes the lifter's bottom lower, and catching into the print itself. However I tried it, and works as intented, if i set up correctly the temps and the cooling also. One note, that I used often. Turn down the bed temp after the first layer. It's already stuck, just need to maintain not to fall mid print, then when it's done you maybe need to wait third, or quarter times as originaly.

Great review... Awesome sponsorship..

8:54 I like that the spaghetti mostly just slides down the slanted bed instead of building up around your extruder and eventually gunking up the hot-end.

1337

Anything for a Ankermake m5?

I use 3Dlac for adhesion now and can't fault it, stuff sticks. That said, a single fine spritz/mist of spray putty worked pretty great too!

I could be completely wrong because I’ve only had a printer for a couple of months, but I think the ender3_v2 has a similar print plate that grabs during the print and releases after the print is done. At least that’s kinda what I’ve noticed.

What if you make the bed into a conveyor that rotates whenever a print finishes?

Great video! What server rack do you use though?

if heated beds used peltier elements, they could swap polarity to cool the bed down?

How do you think this stacks up with a belt printer?

Eye opener 👀🤜🏽🤛🏽✌🏽

thanks you saved me money

First generation set up. obvious place for improvement. Seems like a good thing. The biggest advantage to a system like this is someone who produces a product that uses a lot of smaller identical parts. It essentially can stop you from having to run to a printer and break your work flow. also. I only use one print material for the reasons you talk about. I don't care about other colors (i have this thing called "paint") and I'm perfectly happy with the mechanical properties of my print material.

Have You ever Looked into the Ender CR-30 ? Its a 3d Printer with a small conveyor belt as a bed. You Can print innfinte z axis

Great honest review as usual 8-)

Tried using this system for a while for an ongoing production gig, the firmware was awful, and it wasn't much special. The price was pretty obscene for what it was, and bed adhesion was awful. At best, we managed to get about an 80% success rate. The lift kit is something you can replicate a few pieces of wood to prop the thing up. Any prints that need brims are out, as they have issues releasing. Considering the cost, it was downright dumb to not throw in an actual bed. The 'surface' is basically a FR-4 sheet with a sticky back. Cooldown and heat-up cycles are an issue, as mentioned. Can probably build a fan to cool the bed or something, but even in a cool room, it was an easy 20-minute gap between prints. Certain filaments just DO NOT stick, even some relatively common PLA. The support Discord based support basically leaned towards cranking the first layer temps higher and higher. Had some luck at 230C, but that was damaging the bed and discoloring the plastic. After messing with the thing on and off for about a year, features seem to be frozen in limbo. As stated, there is nothing to run this thing remotely in a safe manner, no master control type program to manage the farm, etc. Given the price per printer for what's about $80 in stuff, I could understand markup for R&D and good software dev. This just feels like a rehash of an old idea with a small bit of polish and little follow-up. Take the cost of the 3DQue stuff and the printer itself, you're better off using a belt. Still can be dang frustrating, but cheaper and easier to get running. Better yet just get a large bed printer and print either sequentially, or a long full build-plate to maximize production between shifts.

Prusa print bed has been the best option for me. Nothing else compared.

I know that print temperature is probably the main factor in this. Is there a change in angle when printing? Not sure if the lift bed is permanent or changes based on g code. If so, how does the change in angle relative to the direct of gravity impact prints and printing?

so uhm, I print on normal window glass for years now since I ruined the coated cardboard thing that came with my ender3. it can be a bit of a hustle, but if you clean your bed well (I use ethanol, or Wodka) and Level well then it sticks nicely as long as the bed is hot and pops off easyly. the problem is that as soon as it gets lift off the bed a tiny amount it can pop off while printing too 😬 But hey, what do we not do for that nice and glossy first layer?

The Linus style sponsor segues was a very nice touch 👌🏻

Buy or build large 3D-Printer and print instances all at once or one by one in single print. Same scenario, but much more stable result with any fillament.

For reducing the time between time because of the slow cool down of the plate, a common big fan that turns on after the print has finished would dramatically decrease this time.

Where i see the problem is that, while parts will easily come off if lifted from a corner, there may be a high resistance to pushing them from the side and parallel with the bed like it is attempting to do. I tested this on my anycubic i3 mega which has a similar bed by default: try to push the part parallel to the bed and it is hard to remove it. Grab it from a corner and the leverage increases and the part easily moves.

Creality CR-30 is already a fiddley high-volume printer plus dat Z axis?

Here's an idea for a Voron 2.4 abe system. Take a pei sheet without the spring steel, and make a clamp on both sides so you can pull it in both directions. Take a magnetic sticker and adhere it to the pei sheet. Have a metal build surface ( that is magnetic) so the pei/ magnet combo can lay flat as if it was just a normal bed. Once the print is done, have the pei/mag sheet move (with a bend after the bed to unstick the print) and then build a sweeping mechanism to get rid of the print. Return all to their original state and begin another print

You should be able to do this with marlin Gcode and a SD card. The code in marlin has a g code to load a program from a SD card and start printing it. With some simple edits to the end of your Gcode inside your slicer you should be able to handle this with just a base printer

Surely for high-volume production, belt-printers are the way forward? Or do they have their own set of issues?

The idea looks great but in practice seems to need a lot of tweaks, and a RAM 3d printed to push off those parts. Think I'll stick with the plate changes for now. Thomas you did give us the honest truth and thanks so much !

If you're printing thousands of the same part, it's probably time to investigate other production tools. Injection molding at the smaller scale has gotten a whole lot easier and cheaper in the last decade, between being able to print molds with high-temp UV resin, or casting your own molds in high-temp silicone. Sure, some things simply can't be made in a mold, but most things can and even more can with some tweaks. And then there's small-scale CNC, either to produce parts directly or to make aluminimum molds for injection molding. You can even recycle quite a few things from the waste stream to do that injection molding for free or nearly free.

I suspected something like that. I want to salute the guys at Power3D which I support, Carlo has a Prusa like that with a very similar setup if not the same, and he told me something like real applications for this method are quite an exception even in his experience of professional farm/shop. Note that from 72 to 84 benchies full plate, and from 5 to 6 skulls or single mid-sized objects, the slight improvement is the same, around +15%. So, in case, auto plate swap is the way to go, more than continuous print like that. An alternative even better could (I am imagining) be the conveyor belt printer which has other alternative use cases (big linear objects ofc) and yeah it comes with its very own set of troubles and tricks to handle, compared to a normal printer. Interesting study tho, I liked it!

That synology NAS 😍😍😍😍

Ya the bed type is a G10 or PEI bed, both do the same thing having the print self release after the bed is cold. PEI you usually want about a 10C hotter then suggested temp for any material FOR the first layer, you can then let it back off to 50c to finish the print.

How does all that compare to conveyor belt 3D printers? I've seen 300USD kits to upgrade cheap Ender 3 here on RU-vid.

VERY nice, I don't like the spool mounted on the machine, especially up so high.

Something else you didn't mention is that this printer setup only, is that it can only ram printed items that are above a specific height (i.e., the lowest rod holding the hotend).

What do you do about removing skirts from the build plate? Is the idea that you don't use a skirt (maybe use a brim as it will release with the part)?

is this bed that special? All my prints pop off super cleanly around 30 degrees with 0 bed adhesion problems on the default side winder x1 bed. It only take like 5 minutes to cool from 50 degrees as well.

Hey nice setup! I'm thinking to do the same. What is that high kilogram spool holder??? Link for STL or purchase? Looks great. Thanks

How does it affect over hangs

"most of the time, it works 100% of the time" This is the description of my life.

Looks like a Pelletier cooler or blast of CO2 liquid would get the parts off more reliably as you need a difference in thermal expansion between plate and part to get it off. Also a thermal shock of active cooling would allow you to locally cool the part or bed quickly, and resume printing much faster while the thermal mass of the bed recovers operating temp.

😂 I can't with the "I'll do the math in post" text to speech voice overs 😂

I'm getting my prusa mk3s+ this week, lol

Nice time :)

heh, guess pushing sticky parts out is one case where my lead screw monster with closed loop steppers would get to flex it's muscles a bit! I've found out the worst way possible that if it ends up crashing on auto-leveling and then rams the head on the bed, it can just keep pushing the entire 310x310mm glass out of the 4 clips and crack the corner...

What brand of filament was in the big spool on top of the printer?