Has RedBull Hardline Gone to Far?? 

At the end of BKs video, he said they were putting up a big net on that jump….and that they were changing the lip on the takeoff

Some one will back flip it by the end of the week

They should call it the Trebuchet. I was worried BK's dog was gonna go down. Glad Jimbo is alright. Holy crap.

ask isted to backflip it

Both BK and Matt said it was too lippy, they will modify the lip and it will be better and safer.

At the end of BK latest LSD he said they are going to put a safety net on the jump

They need to consult with physicists on huge setups like this. They shouldn't have to be guessing how fast riders need to go and what size transition to use on the lip. All this could be calculated ahead of time. It's possible to build gnarlier setups like this and still keep things relatively safe. Jim's crash was completely avoidable if Red Bull had just done their physics homework.

The safety net needs to be at least 80 feet wide. It would be so easy to lose control and get thrown off at an angle off the take off ramp. I hope they don't assume a straight trajectory is all they have to worry about

Surely you'd want netting installed for testing when you're unsure on speed etc.

I typed out a comment on Pinkbike last night saying pretty much exactly what you said Dean (and then deleted it). I think you're spot on. Point one, they feel they have to one up Tasmania now. Point two, that thing is hideous and shouldn't be built from an aesthetic perspective. Point three, most importantly if riders of the calibre of BK are struggling to ride it in a non race situation then surely it's too sketchy to put in a race. Gnarly and sketchy aren't the same thing IMHO. Great summing up anyway Deanos, you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Great take on that issue Dean! In my opinion this looks more like an event for stuntman and woman. I hope they got paid extra to try it without a safety net.

i think this is the best hardline ever! (positive engagement)

7:20 "it's not even like you're excited to watch, it's almost like your anxious to watch." Perfectly stated. I love Hardline, it's by far my favorite sporting event of the year, but I'm not trying to watch Evil Knievel.

Good point about it being ugly. They obviously saw that a jump over that gorge would look incredible, but they've spoiled it with all the scaffolding. And now they've found it doesn’t work with only a week to go. They've messed up.

It’s all about spectacle, but that’s not worth harming the riders. Where could they go next? Loops?

Darkfest Tom did a 120foot back flip. I think this jump will change by race day. Can't wait to see. Russell😎

I would argue that Redbull Rampage has much more of a scare and danger factor than Hardline, and are we going to forget the 72' canyon gap on the first Rampage course??? Also, no one is forcing riders to ride this event, no one's forcing BK to test the jump. Mountain bikers will always ride what they want to ride, whether it's dangerous or not. That's what makes the sport fun.

Watch BKs video they are changing the takeoff and lip and testing it again, hopefully they add a net and the weather holds and we get a 2024 Wales Hardline, but I think I do agree with you Dean.

You are right, its a very ugly jump and looks out of place compared to the rest of the course. However, notwithstanding that the ramp radius profile needs correcting, technically its not a hard jump, if this was 2 feet off the ground, nobody would think twice about a 70 foot jump. Both BK and MJ jumped it successfully at the first attempt, and MJ jumped it really well, if a little long. Jim got kicked by the lip, knew he had to ditch the bike, and had a lucky landing, but he still made the distance ok 🙂. Glad his injuries were minor. Its the consequences of making a mistake that really make this a serious feature. If you are short, you are probably 98% dead. I do think a safety net is required, and crash mats/air bags at the far end because dropping into a crash net would be ok, but the forward speed while accelerating downwards hitting the scaffolding it what will kill you. I mean you could also look at the 100+ foot jump at the bottom of the course, and if you come up short on that you will just plough into the hill and with all that forward speed you will be seriously hurt. So where do you draw the line. I am not sure that all the HL riders will want to run that jump and roll the dice with the consequences and you are right I am not sure all the teams will be on board with potentially putting their DH riders at risk so early in the season, but there is no chicken run is there, so how will they score it. Will be interesting to see if they leave it in. Look at Rampage and Brendog, he is one if not the best canyon jumper in the world, he did 2 features never done before, both would have killed him if he got it wrong and the run in to that canyon gap was just mental, he even had to hop over another guys run on the way in. How many other people would ever attempt that canyon gap. Cant wait for the weekend.

It's making DH more like a stunt event. The two should be separate. And it pushes amateurs to try stupid stuff at a weekend with great personal risks that could be life changing injuries as a result.

I think the changes to parts of the course were needed as it’s been the same for many years. That being said I agree that safety measures need to be in place such as the net on the canyon jump and adjusting the lip which is why we need a couple of experienced riders to test and find these faults. Dan planted himself on the backside of the on-off before the 90’s when he tested them. Keep the event gnarly to progress the sport but rider safety will always be paramount 🤘❤️🌈🕊️🌍

At 6:20 I'm still zoomed in 3.4x and admiring your perm, then you raise your eyes and start looking up there too haha. Must have some Hardline Wales level scaffolding holding that baby up! Edit: I just realised too that you haven't planned this, this must be what you're doing day to day life in. Respect.

First thought was they've gone too far with it. Don't doubt it's doable & the riders are the best of the best & are riding voluntarily but can also see a scenario where really serious injuries happen & it damages the reputation of the event.

That jump is ridiculous. They already had a ridiculously long jump on the track.Bernie did it with no net no safety fence on the other side nothing. They are lucky he's the best jumper or one of the best jumpers in the world. Only someone like that could adjust to that weird take off. The odds are not good when one in three people don't make the jump. That type of jump is like an Evel Knievel jump. A one shot not a bunch of people having to get over it. Amen Dean, you are 💯 right. The risk reward is too high and to be honest they aren't getting paid enough by a long shot!

Gotta agree - watching the riders hit the jump was more anxious than excited to see that! Cool to see some of the other features & changes to the course though.

Any DH racer could crash and die on any course at any event. It's all about calculated risks. This doesn't appear any sketchier than Rampage.

I think it's a bit annoying that the super techy sections at Hardline are being swapped for big jumps. Of course it's unfair to call it easy, but I think it lowers the technicality and real racing, and is instead just plain dangerous

A bunch of stuntman oneuppers! They say Jimbo only got a concussion, which can very devastating in itself! The jumps and speeds that these guys already carry is gnarly enough!!

People seem to forget this course is created by pro mountain bikers for other riders to ride, alot of riders have been calling for harder tracks because the work Cup tracks are built so anyone can ride it. I don't see how any of us that don't have the ability or desire to ride this stuff can comment on if it's gone too far or is it safe enough. surely that's for the course builders to decide what to build then the riders can choose if they want to ride it.

The drop if it goes wrong reminds me of brendogs canyon gap from the last rampage. Which was one guy hitting it maybe three four times. But with a full roster or riders doing lots of runs then at race pace. There are for sure going to be injuries

Great video and well said. The exposure is so gnarly, genuinely worried about the feature.

Great dialogue bro, agree with you wholeheartedly.

To ask riders to test a canyon jump with no net and exposed scaffolding to crash into, only to realise it's too dangerous after Jimbo wipes out, and then decide to add a net, is just stupid... I think the race organisers have failed in how they safely test jumps. Nevertheless, if they can modify the feature so that it is safe, I think it should be included in the race, but they seriously need to rethink how they test out jumps.

I was anxious for pretty much the entirety of Bernards LSD, the last rampage gave me the same feeling, and there was a crash there I thought someone had a serious accident, they'd got lucky.

I mean, we've already seen 3 people hit it. That's all we really wanted to see in the first place; it indulges the "what if" of the whole spectacle. Beyond that, it's basically like deciding to throw people off of it until someone dies. I certainly feel like that's a personal decision the riders can make for themselves... but since it's already been jumped, the initial shock value of the jump has been somewhat mitigated.

Since its going to be changed and a net will be installed, I'm mostly worried about the pressure on participants who arent that proficient air mile collectors. You got invited, now you gotta either do it or not at all because there is obviously no way around it and its smack in the middle of the track. I kind of expect injuries before the race even... if they did it as an optional feature with a B-Line (but how?), I'd have a better feeling about it. Its just too big of a feature for a race event, this is something for Rampage and even there my gut has been in turmoil watching these ever bigger features without the pressure of a clock ticking away in Rain & Wind Central of Wales.

Why is there no footage of what you are talking about?

The jump itself isn’t so extreme (other than the glaring omission of safety nets over the canyon), but I don’t understand why they were surprised the kicker was too abrupt. All they had to do was build a 1:1 scale replica in a safe place to test the speed, take-off and landings thoroughly (and maybe use an inflatable landing ramp at first), before building the final version on the side of the mountain that they would then know would work safely.

I agree totally. Hardline is a race and this jump would be mandatory, unlike similar features at Rampage. It needs to go.

It’s called hard line. It’s the hardest line and the hardest race for the hardest racer’s. Dan and G from a young age spoke of wanting to push what could be done on a mtb and find the limits of what the body and mind could do. They are doing it and nothing we feel or express will stop them!

I will be anxious when watching this. But I will watch it so I guess they have succeeded.

My exact thoughts on that lip. The first time I saw it, it looked sketch, it didn't look right. Like you say, needs way more curve into the exit.

Great video. I agree with you 100%. The event coordinators and builders are constructing enough risk to make the death of a rider a real possibility. They have also built a jump where they are essentially one rider death away from the Hardline getting cancelled forever, and a major lawsuit by the family of whoever dies. A good lawyer can easily establish negligence for any major injury or death, and render any injury release documents invalid very easily as well. The bad lip on that launch is an example gross negligence on the part of the jump design engineer. No net to catch a falling rider would be an example of gross negligence on the part of the event safety coordinators. Coming up short and smashing into the steal girders or edge of the landing ramp would be another useful example of negligence from a safety standpoint. They are rolling the dice in so many ways it’s crazy.

I with you I think Dean. It just feels like a serious accident waiting to happen.

Thats why its called HARD LINE 🔥

Well said. Jackson Goldstein case in point

I have never been so scared for someone else doing a jump as i was while watching Matt Jones' video, I was so uncomfortable.

I think they should keep it, it's going to be really sick. They can put up nets and pads for testing.

I heard they are going to alter the take off to make it less kicky.... And put a net up.....

Hi first time commenting on this channel so happy to see Jim walk away from his crash by the sounds of the. title I don’t think hardline has gone too far you could say the same thing about the legendary Canyon gap at rampage that is even gnarlier than this and that has no safety net And obviously like with any new feature or jump you don’t know what’s wrong until you test it first so you can find out what the problems are and then fix it afterwards and like someone sed in the comments no one has to jump this if they don’t want to

Dear Dean, what are you talking about? "We've gone too far?" Don't forget that you're a rider! Look at how excited Kerr and Jojo were to hit that thing. It's new, challenging and that's exactly what we riders look and strive for. Also, don't take the "victim's" path of saying that riders are being thrown into that. Nobody's obliging you to do anything! It's a rider's decision to go for it or not. Kerr and Jojo went for it and it was awesome. Gee preferred to stay away from it. And Jim, well, went for it and failed as we also have failed many times. Crashes are just part of the sport.

i think we MIGHT possibly be reading too much into this.Testing stuff this big there is always a chance of it going south just like with Dave in Tasmania , Gee himself in Rampage etc etc. Although no one wants to see someone obliterate themselves its the reality of things. Some changes and it will be all good. Just like any other huge jump with the added factor that there is a ravine below.

Rampage is way moore dangerous, doing some 360 and backflip on the edge of some pretty huge cliff, Hardline is sick, crazy use every words but Rampage is something else, good to see Jim ok 🤘

Canyon gap not going to be in the race now, decided they needed a net but too late to get one made

Matt Jones says at the end of of his video that they were changing the lip,

It should be up to the riders as to whether it's too much - they can always back out. They're all world class athletes, and I'm sure the ramp has been built by highly experienced people. This is the definition of extreme! CHOCKS AWAY!

The things an absolute monstrosity. In both positive and negative ways. I'm glad they're going to adjust the lip and add a net. It is still and will still be absolutely bonkers, just minus a very intense risk of unalivement should something go proper sideways, like a rogue gust of wind or something. Good luck to all the nutters that will be sending it and heal up well Jimbo.

This is a big attention grabbing feature, but these videos are from a testing day with a couple of very experienced riders and nobody was being forced to try it, these guys did it so that these can be refined to work better. And while I do hope they put a safety net in, don't forget that these guys do stuff like this on their own just to make content, Matt just jumped a house. So honestly I think this is safer than some of that, they are testing and refining it and hardline is very rider focused, I think if all the riders thought it was too dangerous it would get nixed from the course. Also, BK and Matt cleared it with no problem, so I think the biggest issue is fixing the lip.

Wise words mate.

Agree. Im more interested in the gnarly, rough stuff. I think thats more true to the DH original spirit. Artificial jumps with scafolds dont belong to downhill/freestyle

How is it any different to the madness of Rampage? Huge exposure there and similarly sized features...

There’s a difference between building a jump where if you crash you’ll break a bone and a jump where if you fall into the canyon you die.

I think my opinion on this matter is irrelevant. What's important is what the riders say. But you're making absolutely valid points. One must ask themselves: Is it called Red Bull HARDLINE or Red Bull RISKY LINE?

Dean, you are bang on the button. This isn't mountain biking at its purity. Evil Knievel stuff. There's better gnarly natural lines in that beautiful landscape. I bet it won't feature in the race. Use natural features. This isn't good for mountain biking.

Not to mention it’s in a national park so I hope they’ve got planning permission for that structure

People said the same thing about Evel jumping the Snake River decades back. 🙄

Funny how you used the word "anxiety" in regards to watching the even or the event itself... Last year's Rampage I had the same feeling. I only wanted it to be over and that nobody got hurt... The infamous battleship hop on, hop off, Brendog's Canyon Gap, etc. This new jump in Wales, is not a jump, it's a stunt trick... Coming up short, or to the side or even way deep in that jump, will have massive consequences, and I dare say that safety nets won't do much... Yes, many people will say that the gap isn't that big and whatnot, but the exposure and the high likelyhood of a bit of wind, can literally throw you off in an instant. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love riding and also chase my own progression, but when it can literally end your life or your life as you know it, I'm sorry but I can't understand how that makes sense to anyone...

Thanks for your honesty mate. My view is that it’s Red Bull’s event and they can choose to do what they want with it and those riding can too. We too can choose. Your opinion here has influenced me significantly: I’m now with you; that’s my view, my choice. In the future, outcomes and the balance between all these choices will sort the direction of these things. There are other factors which you haven’t discussed and I’m not going to offer my view upon, but this is a man-made structure for an income generating event in the U.K. and if somebody chooses to sue, the outcome will depend entirely on whether or not sufficient care was taken. Because,if it is judged it has not been, then consent and waivers etc mean zero in the U.K., although many people wrongly believe I’m wrong (I’m not). But that’s for RB and whoever else has responsibility for the proposal.

I guess it’s like the IoM TT that’s just started as well, the risk is there, it’s a stand alone event, not in a cup series so the decision is solely with the rider to accept the risk or not. This is scary absolutely but I would leave the choice with the riders

It's absolutely trying to one up, this whole "built different thing" - personally I thought Maydena nailed it (although many disagree). They should have got someone in that knows how to build these jumps - it's a science / physics, this was so janky; a few freeriders on Insta stories very unipressed with what was built, could see it was wrong - one made the point of needing the firmer suspension for this jump, but that would compromise a "race" run. Yes the final Maydena jump was adjusted as the entry speed was marginal, but this looks miles off where it should be as a starting point. And needing someone to crash to add a net, really? For the DH riders, I'd like to see them out of this janky mess - Ronan's has about half the points he needs for a top ten overall, Charlie's on a come back, they need to stay fit - I worry if they didn't want to do it but not feel able to drop out, through an *assumed* peer or team pressure.

If it runs...best hardline ever ⛳

Your veiwpoint on this (natural terrain) is Rampage. This is Hardline

i can't quite understand it. it's up to everyone to go along for the ride!

Completely agree with your thoughts on this. I think the organisers need to ask themselves whether it's worth someone's life. I very much don't think it is.

Hopefully Jimbo sees the 💰 out of this whole thing

totally agree with you Dean. First thing I thought when I saw a photo of that run-in/take-off was: that's sketchy a.f., the lips supertight and kicky and the whole things just an even more gnarly and over-achieved mental thingy stupidity. Reminds me of brendogs canyon gap at the last Rampage, but I wasn't feeling so bad about that one by miles

Apparently nets getting fitted for event change on take off probably a few mats underneath chill

They were talking about putting a net up. Crazy that a few have already hit it, but Jims crash shows why there should've been a net in the first place, a jumps not worth someones life

Cool jump that also just raised the chances another hardline will be cancelled. The more dangerous a track, the better chance it gets cancelled with even lighter weather than normal because of this thing called insurance.

Downhill is proper jump (long or short that's not the issue), speed through the rocks and roots, offcamber and steep track, ripping berms. All these things against time! Hardline is Downhill race in some part and Nitro Circus in other. Next year we will see Ryan Williams doing Free WIlly on scooter thruogh canyon gap 🤣🤣

I will start off with that I agree that this is extreme although you forgot the fact that rampage has sent guys to the hospital for weeks and what about the guy who was unable to walk for 6 years after a crash on a train gap with no train I also believe that this is beginning into the free ride world but they are making it better it has been confirmed.

Think they are going to change the lip and add a safety net . So no one dies 👍

and that's why they called it a test. BK mentioned fixing the ramp. i'm all for keeping it, it's not even the longest one on the course. I'm not a ramp builder but...if you know an average riders weight and the length of the gap, it should be easy to figure out what the takeoff and landing ramp should be shaped like (with options of course due to speed and desired loft), don't these builders use that info on these types of ramps? it's high school physics?

i think anyone would totally agree if its the world cups but its Hardline, there's no step up from what it offers. It is also an event beyond mountain biking, many people watch who aren't really into MTB because its not pushing the limits of just biking, but also the limits of humans in general. Ontop of this, Hardline is more than just a race, i feel people have seen it as just another race with bigger jumps. if it goes ahead, people should watch closely this year...

The first thing that was said was the take off lip was going to be changed.

Davin Mcmillan had arguably worse injuries while guinnea pigging the canyon gap in Tasmania before they reworked it. I'm sure that jump would've been just as loud and controversial if they'd caught the crash on video. Shit's gnarly. Sadly it seems like crashing and misfortunes get more views and are more effective marketing tools than people riding clean and staying unharmed.

No I was looking forward to the feature and it would of been safe if they got the net made

Stay away from that thing, Ronan 😅

I agree 100 percent

They should definitely add a net. Without a net its just too risky. With a net its totally fine IMO, these riders hit jumps this big pretty often.

You summed it up nicely, it's gone a bit too far. Isn't Hardline supposed to be an event pushing the limit of racing instead of being Rampage 2.0? That doesn't look like a feature any world cup rider with any chance at the overall would want to risk their whole World Cup season to hit. On another safety note, isn't it a little huberistic to build a jump that large with the consequences it has at a location that is notoriously windy?

This is a tough one! Now I'm an armchair supporter, and these guys have more skill in their pinky finger than I do in my entire body. Buuuut, no one has this reaction for rampage or darkfest! The gap is actually "small" and smaller than the gaps after the on/off. No one said they should remove them when BK imploded on impact a couple of years ago. No one said to remove the tassie gap, they fixed it, after a pretty bad crash on it to be fair. No one complained then, and this gap is about the same size. As for rampage, those canyons are gnarly too, no nets and days of guinea piggy the jumps. However.... I do feel a net should of been there from the beginning, because that drop is absolutely no joke and possibly a little too far this time, for the sake of progression. Good to hear they are rigging one up, because it makes me dizzy looking at it from phone while sat on the sofa. These guys aren't being forced into it, and yes I know it's easy to just say that. But they can say no, and everyone would be chill with that, because mad respect! So I guess I'm 50/50, I just think the hate isn't needed, it doesn't help and the same hate isn't put on over events that are just as gnarly. I want to hear what other riders think. Oh, it really does look ugly though, ruins the "natural" appeal of the wales track for sure.

Totally agree with everything Dean's saying. Hardline is supposed to be an "Extreme Downhill Race"... this jump goes way beyond a race scenario and into rampage territory. It's just not even fun to watch and everyone knew what was going to happen before it happened to Jim. I wanna see an epic, hard race and this jump just throws the whole concept of why we've been watching it for 10 years into disrepute. Just my opinion but it would be good for it to go back to why we all fell in love with hardline.

The jump needs to change as BK said, but he also said he wouldn't hit and didn't hit that little hip above this feature. The top section looks really gnarly and slippery. Maybe the weather gods will have their sat and keep everyone safe.

I think when you get a professional rider like Dean questioning the validity of a feature like that, not even for himself, but as he says for his friends literally risking their lives. You have to think it's gone too far. I'm all up for an exciting course to watch as a punter but not at the potential expense of the riders participating. I mean we only need to look at the various Rampage examples of when it's gone wrong to know where we should realistically be putting limits on not only what's possible but whats's relatively safe. Clicks, views, accolades etc should never be at the expense of the participants.

They should have timber clad the scaffolding and fitted a safety net pre testing, it's not as if RB can't afford it.

Seems like for this event its the riders pushing this bigger and not redbull. At least from listening to Gee talk on a recent podcast it seems like the Athertons were stoked on this line and trying to make it work.

What’s your thoughts on Bren and Godzy riding the battleship at rampage? Unfortunately with our state of society needing instant gratification, one upping is an easy solution for promoting events…

I think Red Bull should just get Taylor Swift and Lizzo on bikes... end of story. And Dean you love it it gives you something to talk about and that’s what you do now.

One thing is the net. The images of this jump were around since quite some time. So they would have had plenty of time to put up the net. I honestly think, the net should have been put up the moment the main structure was built. For guinea pigging that jump without one, only one word comes to my mind: stupid. In regards to the general quality of the jump: don't know their process. But i know that big snowparks actually calculate their jumps and measure their builds (sometimes even with LIDAR etc.) to ensure the speeds and angles match up with what they calculated. This way they can make sure that the speeds are high enough that people make it into the landing and the landings are long enough that people who over shoot or come in a bit too slow don't immediately land completely flat or people get kicked weird and crash due to too tight radii. My feeling is, that it was maybe built on current experience, but that experience didn't match what they were trying to build. So maybe a calculation or two wouldn't hurt for such a jump. There are things like e.g. going from flat into a even radius of a circle ends up having an infinite impulse if the system is perfectly stiff. On a MTB this will be dealt with by the rider and the suspension, hence chances are high that you get compressed and bucket weird. To mitigate that, one should use e.g. an involute or an Euler spiral which reduces the radius of a section gradually and therefor you don't get bucked as easy.