Having Kids is NOT a Personal Choice And Here’s Why 

It isn’t anymore of a personal choice than buying or selling slaves in my opinion. I clicked the dislike on this comment as a way of casting my vote, not because I dislike the comment.

It is a SHARED DECISION because both a man and a woman are involved together (most of the time).

Who does decide to bring suffering for other individuals for their own satisfaction

@@csababeller9836 Kinda ironic, because antinatalists do still rely on the work of suffering procreated humans for their own satisfaction. Antinatalists should live alone in the wild (doing all of their own work) when they don't want to impose suffering onto other procreated individuals.

Nonsense. I doubt people who say this mean anything other than I have my own moral reasons for doing so. The antinatalist perspective is something that can be useful for people to consider when planning to have children. By doing so you understand the responsibility more. As a moral absolute I think it is just as dumb as proclaiming any other moral absolute. It is everyone's moral choice to choose one way or another. Those choosing to have children will just happen to have a harder time creating optimal circumstances in which to bring someone into the world. It is a big responsibility.

Your suffering isn't meaningless. You have the power to ascribe it as much meaning as you want to. In fact, it is suffering precisely because you already ascribe meaning to it. If you didn't care about it, it wouldn't be suffering.

Your situation isn't exactly normal...

@@llIlIlllII Wow, really? I had no idea....

Gof still has plans for you my child 🙏 ❤️

​@@timothyv What is this magical "meaning" that ur describing? I'd really love to ask I will tell you want I derived from OP's story: NOT ANY RANDOM PERSON SHOULD HAVE KIDS, PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT THOUGHT THROUGH LIFE, DON'T HAVE THE FINANCIAL SUPPORTS, EDUCATION, EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE ETC JUST SHOULDN'T EVEN BE ALLOWED TO THINK ABOUT IT

And even if they are happy to be alive, they are guaranteed to go through the painful, sad, degrading process of dying at some point - which has the potential to be as painful as being burned alive. A dog may be happy eating a chocolate bar, but that doesn’t make it right for me to give them one, even if there is a chance they won’t suffer any complications afterwards. I wish more parents would at least consider this way of thinking.

@@jaydenrise7186 I wish my parents would've thought like we do. It would've been better than being born! Instead, my dad needed an extra hand to pound nails and mow the lawn. All for the cost of me possibly dying of cancer one day... Lol.

You have the power to end it whenever you like.

​@@timothyv Can people like you just stop saying that? Coz guess what, we have looked into how, and its very difficult, u make it seem like pressing a button, and then u justify it all concluding "having kids is a personal choice". It isn't, even if ending it is as easy as pressing a button it still isn't parents' personal choice.

How can the unborn give consent?

Not just the person being created, everyone around him/her as well. One of the biggest reason I am extremely angry at my parents for creating me is, when I asked my mum why she created me, she said "coz i want a more fulfilled life", at that point my life was unbelievably difficult, I was simply a thing for her to fulfil herself? Some tool maybe? Did she realise I have to be spanked, go through all the "education", punishment when I was underaged, then have to get a job, work and stress, obey some boss, earn money to pay her, then suffer some terminal disease and die, just to give her some pride she didn't even personally gain for herself? Or some permanent companionship from me? All my life I studied very hard because I believed I was created to improve the world, yet I realised at that point, I was her tool, that she created for herself. I responded "but you never asked if I'm willing to come into this world". Then for some reason, she thought getting my dad to have a serious go at me, together, both of them, the day after that was a good idea, they did just that, ignoring anything they have done throughout my whole life or what I said. "We raised u, we worked hard to feed you, all the usual words u'd expect to hear" This is why, correct, creating humans is definitely not a personal choice. Not only the kid(s) will be involved, everyone that will be around the kid and these parents will also be involved, how is this a personal choice? simple, its not.

@@birdieculture-2 lawrence mentioned this in one of his latest streams that when he hears the phrase i want to create a child to give my life meaning/fulfilment he cant help but think its parasitic i agree with him its very parasitic and i am sure other antinatalists have also thought of this aswell with that aside i hope your doing better now man your parents seem to be pricks

Why are you still relying on the work of other suffering procreated humans when you don't want to drastically influence someone else's life? You should live alone in the wild (doing all of your own work) when you don't want to influence the lives of other procreated humans!

Well said

Same here brother

Me too. I wish getting out was easier.

Completely agree

Am I the only one who was surprised there’s no such thing as “unaliving parties” but using the s word? Like you all help one another do so safely and guaranteed in a relatively painless ways.

@@purplemonsoon8376 I'd love to participate but I'm totally alone and too broken. I have to do it on my own.

Same...my cousin surpassed replacement rate and she's a typical capitalist working in finance creating no value and has a vapid meaningless life of self adoration with a hollow entitled husband both products in my mind of a run away system. They are enabled and not strong enough to see the suffering they create since they are purposely so far removed from recourse.

The minority always has to justify any position because the majority thinks they're always right.

Yep, completely backwards!

Antinatalists need to justify their position in society, because the society shouldn't exist according to their own logic! Why do antinatalist still live in a society when they don't want the society to exist?

Life is actually good.

Nonsense. I hear people questioning others why they have (or want to have) kids - usually based in terms of responsibility. Both are questioned in society today.

Non existent organisms can not give anything! A nothingness isn't immoral!

The same people would say aborting a 1st trimester fetus is murder which doesn't even have a proper brain. But eating meat is a personal choice.

Personal definitively has to do with being a person, which animals are not. So yes, eating meat is a personal choice.

@@juniper-ug3hs I don’t understand what you’ve typed there. But, we are animals (specifically mammals).

All animals products not just meat.

@@juniper-ug3hs Animals are sentient beings who fight for their lives when humans try to kill them. You’re telling me they don’t count? We can just do whatever we want to them? Are you okay if it’s my personal choice to torture puppies?? No? Why not?

how can you regret something that isn't your fault? lament would be a more apropiate description of what you feel, but regardless there's no point in doing that because you have 0 control over it

😂😂

Nope. Natalist arguments are rooted in selfishness, ignorance and general lack of empathy. Meat eater arguments usually stem from logic, common sense, science and general natural intuition. Ignorant herbist who think animal welfare and wellbeing is just as urgent as that of humans.

Cheers man! Enjoying your new videos! 🔥

@@LawrenceAnton

lets be friends bro

Especially in my country (poor country, unhappy people.....evil....you know......so ..... yeah)

Cheers Jaye

Cheers

🔥🔥

The default state isn't a choice

Or being a serial killer, or a Nazi.

Really appreciated! Thanks for your support!

Even countries with large welfare states have issue with birth rates

How did you hear about it?

@@LawrenceAnton not the person you replied to, but I actually came to the anti-natalist conclusion completely on my own without knowing it had an already established term. I first heard of the term itself while explaining my newfound position to someone, who then mentioned the term to me (although they ultimately disagreed, and talked about it being an amoral topic).

@@codyhanson1344 Interesting, I think quite a few people share this experience with you!

It isn't possible to educate people when they aren't born.

Just another reason to refrain from procreating as our experience of our own life is no guarenteed that our offspring will feel the same way, especially if there is great hardship

Lawrence i think u better make another video to shut these selfish breeders up on how every EXISTING person in the society should have a say in breeders procreating. For some reason they still think they don't need consent from their nonexistent kid, despite you having responded to it at 5:57, but they ALSO think every EXISTING human shouldn't have a say regarding their choice to procreate either. They honestly think breeders should be the only people that have any say in procreation. Better yet, they think when the world is dangerous and their kid is killed by some other person in the society, they are the victims and not perpetrators as to how the world is lmao. They don't ever advocate for parental licensing, training of any kind, every single human should decide by themselves to procreate, no one needs to guarantee to nobody that the world is safe, breeders can make as many babies as they want, "teach" kids to be anything they like, scar them, traumatise them, and then when they are harmed by someone in the same society they are the victims all of a sudden. Funny eh? These stupid breeders.