Oh Christ, this takes me back! Myself and my then work partner Stephen and I were responsible for Kanes melting head sequence. Bit sad to think you probably wouldn't get that pass the censors these days.
@@aristidetwain9117 A fair few, but probably too many to say here sadly. We were told by the production that we were not allowed to uses and blood or blood like colours in the melting sequence, but I managed to squeeze in some burnt umber tones. The whole sequence was done at the end of the studio day which meant we only had one time for one take before we we run into double golden overtime, so thank christ it all worked first time!!
@@razzledazzle7776 Excellent. We still have one of the spare wax casts of Kanes head. Which wasn't a face cast but sculpted completely by hand by Stephen just using photos we took of Edward. No surprise then that he went on to be a senior sculptor for Madame Tussauds. LOL
Ah, the infamous cliffhanger with a cliff hanger episode. All crumminess aside, I will say this is arguably the best of the season (although Delta And The Bannermen might be more ironcally enjoyable) and Kane is legit a solid villain. The whole killing with cold hands thing reminds me of the appeal of the Martian Ambassadors' 'insta-death via touch' which appeals to playground audiences. I also like Mel's departure quite a bit considering her overall poor showing as a companion. Besides, it's only 3 parts so hardly a drag either. Although, I am glad they toned down Ace's slang in Remembrance onwards. Would get a 3/10 from me, a 4 on generous days.
Glitz only really worked for me in the first Trial of a Timelord story cause Bob Holmes wrote him a bit more as a psychopath and I just found him a lot more fun.
The infamous literal cliffhanger is due to stage directions not being properly realised. The Doctor is meant to see footholds, but only realises when he can’t turn back that they’re too far out of reach and he’s going to dangle or hit studio floor.
tegan did too, she hated the doctor at first but then the adventures started to grow on her to the point where in time-flight were they arrived to heathrow she didn't want to leave, (but the doctor abandoned), peri was basically fan service and "look guys, an american companion"
When "Dragonfire" was released on DVD in 2012, one of the promotional clips from the Classic DW account showcased "look how bad the cliffhanger" as a main selling point. The UK release lumping it in with "The Happiness Patrol" in an Ace-centric boxset, though...at least the Kandyman is harder to forget.
Funny thing is I remember watching Time and the Rani (where Mel spends most of the episode screaming) and Paradise Towers (where Mel spends most of the episode screaming) but I dont remember watching this despite seeing most of Ace's run when I was a 6 and 7 year old child coming right into the show as it was unbeknownst to me about to die as a franchise. Mel is such a non companion, from her sudden introduction during Colin's run to her sudden departure in this episode. And all youre left remembering is the frizzy red hair....alot of screaming and not much else.
It annoyed me, how back when they did the 40th anniversary marathon for UK Gold this is the story fans voted for, to represent the seventh Doctor's era.
Mel’s departure was handled horribly and falls under “write in an excuse for her to leave because Bonnie isn’t contracted for any more episodes”. The New Adventure Head Games tries to explain it as the Big Bad of the Seventh Doctor era manipulating her to leave so Ace has the Doctor to herself.
Most people call this the best story in Season 24 but Delta and the Bannerman will always be my favourite and I will defend it to the day I die! Despite that, I am looking forward to rewatching Dragonfire on the Blu-Ray later this year
To be honest I think i enjoy all the episodes of season 24. That's not to say there aren't issues but importantly I feel like all the episodes in season 24 are entertaining and fun in a cheesy way. You can call it a lot of things but never dull
I hate to be that guy, but Jo is actually one of the few companions that got a decent Charakter arc. She starts out super damsly and inkompetent in Terror Of The Autons and later on, she becomes more and more capable and indepentent as time goes on. The way 3 and Jo bounce off each in Carnival Of Monster for instance or how she Handels herself completly on her own in Planet of the Daleks etc. But I do get what you mean.
Read the chapter about Jo Grant in the book "children of time" (came out in 2018) - the chapter is called "Graduation Day" ..... that says exactly that - that jo is probably one of the most fleshed out fully formed characters of classic who - and she has a completed story arc too.
@@Stubagful I watched it and I can safely say I disagree! 😂 I usually love campiness (heck, Voyage of the Damned is my fav Xmas Special) but something about this story doesn’t work for me and I really hate it! It makes me feel stupid but at the same time I find it slow and boring! The Happiness Patrol has a similar problem but at least it’s wrapped up in 3 parts and it’s got the Kandyman to meme over Will still rewatch it on Blu-Ray
You've got to admit though, this story really knew how to do a cliffhanger. 😉 I'd like to think that the draft of the script included the phrase "Insert cliffhanger" and nobody ever got around to thinking one up.
Honestly the show has been going so long, and changed in many different ways. It's respectable they're releasing this season on their special Blu Ray range. In the end, the one thing you can't say they didn't try to make something entertaining.
There was only one thing that saved DW back then (although rather too late) and that was Andrew Cartmel. If he had had another couple of series to redirect the show - then you might have seen a revitalised series fit for the 90s - sadly it all happened way too late
Aside for Time and The Rani (which is a dumpster fire) i hasve fondness for Season 24; "Paradise Towers" is a great story idea let down by production values and Delta and the Bannermen looks like an 80s version of something RTD would write. Dragonfire is the start of something awesome cause...Ace
I honestly adore Dragonfire for its rubbishness. Literally just having Ace and Glitz BE there elevates it above the rest of season 24 IMHO. I also have a weird affinity for 1980s BBC studio sets in this era, there's a lot of charm in that.
I bought the 24th season blu-ray set which has some really great extra material including a documentary about the making of this serial where, among other revelations, you find out how the "literal" cliffhanger was written to make actual sense but a combination of a scenic design that really didn't have the script at the time to help guide and a hurried studio shoot made this cliffhanger something that was thrown together at the end of a shooting day that had to get squeezed out before lights literally got turned off at 10pm by the union crew. I believe this was a story where the the ambition and reach of the script out stretched the budget and time to produce it. It was interesting how script editor Andrew Cartmel and producer JNT got around some limitations of time and budget by taking what should have been a 6 part serial and splitting it into 2 3 parters with Delta and the Bannerman being a location shoot and Dragonfire being only a studio show. I actually thought the sets were decent...definitely has one of the largest sets ever seen on Classic Who...but I totally think the issues you bring up with the execution of this story are totally legitimate. One more tidbit about the story: the ending with Bonnie leaving was made better with the inclusion of a form of the audition piece Andrew wrote for Slyvester to convince the higher ups to hire him that the script editor reworked at the last minute...it could have been much more abrupt than it ended up being.
It's amazing how the general opinion of both Dragonfire and Paradise Towers have traveled in the opposite direction, largely to the same degree, in the last decade or so.
I completely disagree, this story is just really fun and much better than complete garbage that is the other 3 stories of the season, the villain is good, the sets are cool and unique, the idea of the story being a treasure hunt is very original, my only complaints are the first cliffhanger (the literal one) and Ace, who isn't that good in this Story, overall 7/10
0:21 I question this comparison, putting aside personal preferences: besides 4 million meaning different things in 1987 vs 2020, are we really at another low point? In one year, we had S12 and Revolution, the Time Lord Victorious mega-event spanning audios, books, comics and even new cartoons, Big Finish going to town with 10 and all the new books, original and Target, announced. By contrast, what did Who have going for it, in 1987, on that kind of scale or support? The BBC's attitude towards the show is night and day.
As a kid, I really enjoyed Dragonfire, much more so than Paradise Towers. However, over the years, I'd forgotten about Dragonfire and fell in love with Paradise Towers. This video brought some interesting points that I hadn't considered before. I'll have to get the Blu-Ray and re-watch this episode now. I wonder if they'll update the melting face sequence with special effects for the Blu-Ray? Also, just curious, are you going to continue the Guide to the 8th Doctor Adventures? Since Ravenous and Time War finished up and Stranded is now serializing? I heard that both were great series with awesome finales (particularly Time War).
i cant wait to get this season on bluray the extended episodes sound interesting and fun and i wonder if the fandoms thoughts on the season might change after it
Never forget Ace is meant to be a Dorothy from Wizard of Oz analogue - her name is literally Dorothy, and a 'whirlwind' takes her to a fantasy world. And moving on her adventures enable her to work out more about her live and those around her
To be honest, the season 24 and present Who comparison is pretty fitting because I hoped the show would improve dramatically in series 12 like season 25 did. Shame.
I can explain that cliffhanger original the doctor and glits where supposed to have been chased by some guards but do to some time constants the sene was shortened
I’m pretty sure the reason Mel is so unimportant in this story is because it was written with the possibility of her being not in it at all. In Delta and the Bannermen, there’s this character called Ray who gets a lot of attention but is never really that important to the plot, that was because Ray was written to be the new companion character, so that if Bonnie Langford decided not to stay for the full season she could be replaced immediately. So I’m pretty sure Dragonfire was written with the possibility that Mel would be out and Ray would be in, so she couldn’t be that important or interesting.
My fondness from this story comes from its appearance after three technicolour CBBC style tales. Opening with dry ice and someone who isn’t Keff McCulloch doing the music makes it seem like they tried to make something vaguely resembling an atmosphere after hideous stuff like Rani and Delta. Crap story, but it just feels so much less cheap than the rest of the season.
@@brendanmccabe8373 It's Gale, you cowards. Fergodseck, she literally got transported from her home in a space-tornado! She's N-Space's counterpart to the classic Dorothy Gale, plain and simple.
4:30 it blows my mind how no “fans” seem to be able to put together that.. The Doctor was trying to reach the walk way below him. If you watch in the next episode from what we see, it’s pretty obvious Glitz climbed down the umbrella and Doctor, reached the next level and then helped the Doctor down, which is why we see the Doctor climbing down from the top of Glitz and not being pulled up by Glitz. It’s even more obvious later when Ace uses her ladder to reach the level below where the Doctors umbrella is hanging. I’m ready for your backlash comments. But what are you booing me for? I’m right!!
Your highly over reacting if your implying series 11 and series 12 are worse than season 24. Yeah series 11 and series 12 aren't that great, but those seasons aren't worse than season 24 because they don't have Mel in it. Mel is basically that annoying lady shouting Benni from Orphan 55 mutated to be 4 billion times more obnoxious. Dragonfire is the least terrible season 24 story just because it gets rid of Mel and replaces her with a much better companion. Dragonfire would have been much better and more satisfying if Mel was killed off like Adric.
Ace was working class? I always thought the whole point was she was from a boring suburban middle class family so was desperately trying to be edgy hence the explosives and ghetto blaster.
Never liked this episode. And ending of part 1 was stupidly terrible. Only real reason I remember it was the awful monster (who I actually felt sorry for when I was young) and intro of Ace. I never realised your point about Ryan before either. Having just re watched series 11 and 12, I have to admit he really was poorly handled but set up well. Great review though as always! RIP Moffats Brain.
In one of the New Adventures Ace, at this point fully grown physically and emotionally, is with a bunch of others talking about their First Time. You really don’t want to know who Ace first did It with, or where.
Ace is often cited as the prototype of the nWho companion but that's the tip of the iceberg. Her whole arc from unimportant contemporary human to first human graduate of the Time Academy (yes that is her PROPER story arc that Marc Platt wrote for her not the shit one RTD forced on her without actually informing Marc or Sophie) was not only something new but supposed to be something unique. Emphasising that while difficult it was possible for someone from an unimportant universal backwater like Earth to achieve something meaningful in a Universe that doesn't care about them. (admittedly with a little help from a villain's temporal-genetic engineering experiments) Unfortunately the nWho hacks (with the exception of Chibnall funnily enough) seem to have lost that memo and now every Other damned primitive the Doctor smiles at is THE MOST IMPORTANT BEING IN THE UNIVERSE EVAR! Not only that but Earth has gone from so unimportant its entire history can be wiped out without even getting the attention of the Time Lords to the undisputed centre of the universe.
