Good comparison RU-vid video. I like the Byrna LE trigger co2 puncture much better than the hit the thing sticking out the bottom such as the Umarex use.
I love my Byrna LE, but I had to get an S2 (it arrived today). I will enjoy doing my own side-by-side testing. Based on your videos, I think they are both excellent launchers. It seems to me that launchers have gotten noticeably better in just the last year.
@@JesusistheonetrueGod yeah, for the price you really cannot be at the S2 out of the box. I actually carry those in my shop as well, so if you ever need one, let me know.
This was one of your best videos. Thanks for doing the comparison. While watching it, I was also wondering about you testing the Grimburg against these. I look forward to you demonstrating the Gavle if you ever get one.
I have to say that using firearms for years and training others to do so, I like the mechanics of the Byrna. We teach sights on target, safety off, first shot. No double trigger pull. Simple and almost identical to our firearms. Very satisfied with mine and purchasing an additional one tomorrow.
@@johnzemko9709 I agree. The trigger to puncture method is one of the best that I’ve seen on the market. When they released the EP, they eliminated the safety thinking that they could make and produce the pistol at a lower price. However, that was soundly rejected because people realized that first round was going down range at half normal velocity :-) the EP went away very suddenly :-) now I don’t mind the strike puncture either. It’s relatively easy to adapt a standard drawing technique that integrates the strike on the quick puncture cap. Thanks for watching!
FYI, the S2 I received today had a CO2 cartridge in the slot next to the launcher. I forgot to mention earlier that I bought my S2 after I saw your previous video.
They do thank him by sending him their latest products 😋 But yeah they definitely see an increase in sales when Jon showcases their stuff. Hopefully all the companies see an increase from this channel when send stuff his way... Grimberg we're waiting on you now.
@@JesusistheonetrueGod Yeah, Salt Supplys other launcher was just so darn big, it wasn't a practical edc item. Now they have become a serious contender. 9and were early in this development) .. I suspect we are going to see more and more coming from them.
@@AlternateArmsSDguess we could all start sending messages to their customer service asking them why they haven't sent you a Gavle yet... We could contact them everyday in your name until they either give in or issue a cease and desist order LoL 😂
I’m replacing my most recent Byrna with the S2. Have had nothing but trouble with the two Byrnas I have used. Unbelievable. One malfunction after another, both with the LE and now the SD.
Question? What's stops the bad guys from using these devices on innocent victims. Incapacitating someone then killing leaving the unsuspecting victims defenseless against the attacker?
Nothing at all. The same way that a bad guy can use a car to run over innocent people, a bad guy can use a sword or knife to harm innocent people, or a bad guy could use a fork to harm innocent people. Bad guys are going to do what bad guys do. and there is little you can do to stop it. These are designed to give folks an option to using lethal force. Thanks for watching.
I have been plinking off the back porch with my S2 and LE just to see how they feel. Both are fun markers. The S2 is definitely more budget-friendly and great for someone entering the less-than-lethal hobby.
Yeah it seems to be the most common charging system for the LTL launcher. Definitely like the Byrna charging system more, but it's proprietary so none of the other companies can use it sadly.
I like the puncture button, don't like mixing up uses for the trigger, Trigger is for shooting, puncture button can be hit on any surface, knee, ground, wall, hand etc...just gotta practice.
@@jmmx69 Agreed!! practices, everything. You can have the greatest launcher on earth but, if you’re not ready to use it, and know how to use it when the time comes, it’s worthless.
just an FYI, I ordered a Byrna SE based on the vids in your channel. After two weeks of crickets (even though they took the money the day I ordered), my contact with customer service was horrid. Canceled my order. I would think if they are as bad as they were in reference to an existing order, can't imagine what they would do to honor warranties, etc. I will stay away from Byrna company in general. A customer service review/vid would be beneficial too, in my opinion.
Thanks for the heads up! We have to hold every company liable for their actions. Have you had any other communications with them? Did they just not ship your launcher?
@@AlternateArmsSD Thanks for the follow up (really great content you produce). They didn't ship it, nor indicated expected shipment, hence I cancelled the order. The chat/via text chat on their web was appalling. Basically, was "either you wait whatever amount of time"/no indication of shipping, or just cancel. She (the customer service person) actually sent me a screen shot of the button "pay now" to justify that they can take the money when ordered, but ship whenever they want. If you buy from them know: Customers would be funding their working capital for 3, 4, 6 weeks? (i.e. collect on orders and then use the money to kick your production process, funded by yours truly?) Be warned.
Before you get to the point of pulling the trigger, the visual of the weapon pointing at you is a potential deterrent. The more that weapon actually LOOKS like a gun will play a big part in potentially deescalating the situation. Having a big knob hanging off the bottom of the grip just screams air gun. The Byrna is clean and intimidating at a glance.
There is a great deal of truth to this. Statistically speaking , of all of the people who have had to pull their weapon in self defense, only 6% have had to fire it. Cowards tend to free from force. That being said, give me time..... I have a plan for that :)
Except that the Byrna in those colors scream non-firearm. When you're looking down the barrel of the Salt Supply it looks more like a firearm. That said, i prefer launchers that don't have the strke knobs on the bottom of the grip.
@@aaronhauptman7833 There are pros and cons both ways. The Byrna requires a bit more muscle memory training to charge it on safe, then switch to fire, then fire. The quick pierces are much easier to master in a quick drawing scenario.
It actually doesn’t matter, depending on the type of regulation you have on the launcher. However, you should never leave them charged for extended periods of time if you can avoid it. I conducted some tests with the T4E line and have had some engaged for well over a year without a problem. However, that is never suggested.
@@AlternateArmsSDI'll second that, I had an HDP 50 charged and sitting in my car in Hawaii heat without issue, and it's an older model without the reinforced valves. I wouldn't advise that for self-defense, but if you only had one CO2 cartridge and it was pierced, you might get away with leaving it as-is until you hit WalMart...
@@infancysguard I love it. About 325 fps out of the box. Amazon sells the gun for $229.95. Also own a lot of Umarex guns. It is nice to be able to use an external tank.
It really depends on your personal preference or your state. Some states require that they are colored brightly to differentiate them from firearms. If you don’t have that limitation, I would definitely go with black or gray. If you want to see one that is absolutely super cool, go with the white :-) I have all of those available on my website now.
Someone needs to build a launcher like the HK P7 pistol, where squeezing the grip cocks the striker-- but instead, a cam rotates and punctures the CO2. Also, make it magazine fed from the bottom, like a normal pistol, and you'll sell a ton.
Well, that depends. For edc, they are both fantastic. The Byrna is slightly smaller. For power and performance, they are very close. The puncture method for the c02 is vastly different though.
@@AlternateArmsSD I have the LE on the way, I am debating on returning it to get the S2 first..or maybe even the SD. ...I have found from more than a handful of folks, the LE is not reliable. 😮💨
@@AlternateArmsSD instead of returning the LE for S2 I may go for the SD. I heard it is more reliable than LE. It's smaller than the two and still have similar controls in familiar places. Main thing for me is reliability and consistency. Portability/able to conceal. I would love to hear your input on this as you gain another subscriber 🫡
@@AugustDavinDeepson the SD is absolutely fantastic. However, definitely go for the extender so you can use 12 g cartridges. Interesting sidenote, I just got an email from Byrna that my first ever order has shipped :-) that’s kind of exciting.
Hey brother,another great Head to Head video. Not a fan of the Byrna LE all that much. I love my SD,and it as it came from the factory. Now the S2 has a good solid build and I like the MUB50 type magazine system. Also the looks and power. It seems a better option for the price difference. Have a safe trip next week.
I have seen this episode a few times. I would have say these launchers are pretty even. Call it a draw. The LE's first punch is bigger, and that is a good thing and could be a winning shot. I own both though, so I am good either way.
I carry 8 shots in my Byrna LE. You can do 7 in the magazine and 1 in the chamber. 8 Aluminum balls hitting that hard is good for me. Also, the Salt S2 is a big MUB 50. I have an MUB 50 and the magazine release has serious issues. It would try to eject the magazine when it was fired. I had to remove the button from mine to make it work right. Now I fire my shots then have to use a pin to release the magazine. The S2 has and identical setup.
That’s the way I carry my Byrna as well. The salt supply doesn’t have the same magazine release issues as long as you do not try to release the magazine when it is loaded. If the magazine is loaded and you want to release it, you have to press the chamber ball back into the magazine.
But, and I forgot to mention this in the last comment, they do not suggest that you keep it loaded with eight if you’re running pepper balls. It puts undue pressure on the balls and because of the break in the launcher
@@AlternateArmsSD LOL. I'm so paranoid of them breaking in the gun that I don't carry them in the gun at all. I carry them separate if I need them. Only kinetics for EDC.
Purchased a Salt Supply S2 but haven’t been able to shoot due to hospitalization. I believe I’ll prefer the Byrna LE due to trigger, and magazine operation. Do plan to put the Salt Supply S2 in one of my vehicles.
The Burner LE was losing roughly 50 FPS every shot the salt supply remain consistent and round 2 had more knockdown power throughout the next five shots as it blew straight through Scully !!! For the price and the customer support Salt supply all the way!!!
Dollar for dollar, I’ll take the salt all day long and twice on Sunday. Byrna thinks they have the market cornered. I don’t see anything there that justifies a $500 price tag. Sorry….not sorry.
@@robertclark9 Yeah, salt supply really shook up the market with this launcher. I'm hoping it continues a steady trend of new products and improvements.
The primary difference is the way that the valve is constructed. They are heavily reinforced eliminate blowout. Also, they’re running a wide-open airflow as well.
Jon, my man!!! Damn if your not one of the best LTL channels on youtube; ALWAYS quality and honest content. That S2 is uber nice imho; wish the mag was in the grip, or co2 in the mag, but it's affordable, handsome, and more than capable! But buddy am I excited for that Saber video to drop! Cheers from So.IN!! 🫡
I would like to see a test with each launcher using Amazon, Byrna and Salt rounds. The Amazon rounds are .6785" The Byrna are .6845" That's a difference of .006" That means with the Byrna launcher, if you are using Amazon rounds, you have twice the clearance in the barrel approx. (.012") What is the velocity loss with that kind of clearance?
@@AlternateArmsSD Ahhh, don't sweat it, doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. I do have a question for you. With your experience, which hand Chrono do you recommend?
@@dwptechduco well, the kroner that I’m using actually did a review on quite a while ago. It’s great, but you have to have direct light right above it. It took me about six months to figure that one out :-)
John, let me ask you something. After all the testing you have done with all the different non-lethal launchers out there, is it your experience that the clearance differences with a variety of projectiles available, is of concern? Obviously, hitting power from any given launcher is important or the manufactures of these launchers wouldn't boast results by showing what happens when getting hit with it, whether its people or things like Baking Sheets, Scully, Cantaloupe, Watermelon etc.. In my industry, pressures and clearances are directly related to performance. I know the manufactures of these launchers are looking for the right clearance of projectile to bore for maximum efficiency and power delivery. So much so that BYRNA wont tell you what theirs is, (I asked) stating its "proprietary" information which seems a bit silly because anyone with a bore gauge and a set of calipers can know the answer. But all of the manufactures of these launchers kinetic balls are expensive. Yes you can use them over and over if shooting soft targets, but the cost is high. The Amazon .68 caliber balls are very cost effective and precision made with no dimples or seams like the BYRNA or Salt rounds. However, the Amazon balls are a tad smaller leaving about .012" clearance in the bore instead of about .006" So, the question is, does the extra clearance "blow-by" affect the power and efficiency and if so how much. No one knows. Because testing and reviewing of these products is in your wheelhouse, I'm reaching out to you for your professional opinion on this. Maybe I'm being too technical and chasing a ghost on this subject, but there is a reason why manufactures have designed a certain clearance within their launchers. Why did they go with .006" instead of .012"? Must be a reason. I could buy my own equipment and make my own video, but you already have everything needed and I was thinking this would be a new and different challenge and a very informative video for your followers that so far no one has the answer to. Anyway, just a thought=) Thanks for your consideration.
Byrna has a target trap. you should look into it. it saves walls ( I KNOW TRUST ME). also RIOT BALLS has spome really nice ammo. I like the Mercury rise MUB 50, that hits hard. for at lease 3 magazines. the MUB 43 was nice and compact, and I hard hitter as well. but only 4 shots. I hope they come out with an improved version with my recommendations, which was to put the magazine in the grip but so far I am not seeing it. the Walther PPQ $# is really good as well. cheaper than the Byrna . but the I do like my Byrnas ( I have 3).
I've gone through 3 of their target traps in the last year due to them tearing apart at the seams after a few hundred rounds each from 20-25 feet. Byrna replaced the first one and I had to buy the second replacement myself. I like their larger target trap, but it's way too expensive for what it is.
If I really carry my Byrna LE around for defense, to give it the best chance to function properly in an emergency, I only run Byrna branded Co2 and their 3g projectiles! Been seeing some weird malfunctions with the LE here on YT! I am getting a bit leery.
@multiskyman1 The issue is it just needs to be oiled mine lost power dramatically like down to 200fps I sprayed some oil in it and bam 360-380fps consistently and 460fps the first 2 shot's
@@MultiSkyman1 I sprayed it in a few different places mainly down the barrel so that it gets in the action, in the mag well and in the co2 holder. It was noticeable basically instantly but only got better with more shots. Also I oiled it a few more light sprays to make sure it gets through it.
I just want to know should I take out from my wife's T4E TR50 the bottom because I ordered her a piercing guard should I take that out so the cops know that it's a marker or can I keep it on
Brother, I would say that would really depend on the state you live in. Here in Texas, we’re constitutional carry (which ALL states should be) so seeing folks with guns is not abnormal. However, if you do get into an interaction with a police officer, just let them know what it is.
Not a fan at all of the Salt Supply loading system. Putting your hand in front of the barrel to load is just stupid. I get it isn't a firearm, and not everyone that owns one is going to transition to firearms, but it still teaches bad and unsafe habits. I'm also not a fan of the Byrna CO2 system. Having to use an allen key to change CO2 is dumb. Put the CO2 in the mag. Look these designers can put an 8 gram N2 cylinder in the mag, drop the projectile size to .50 or maybe .60 and give you your rounds and gas all in one mag. That way if you replace your mag you get a fresh cylinder as well. N2 also gives you more energy per shot vs CO2 and is more stable and consistent of a gas, especially in cold weather.
@@mikel9567 the good news is, innovations keep coming, and they’re coming quicker now. You can’t use nitrogen because nitrogen is an all out release gas as opposed to CO2, which will bubble up shot after shot. Nitrogen will give you an absolutely incredibly powerful first shot, but then drop to nothing. (Like the stickshot) the front loading magazine is it too much of an issue, though as you can only load and unload the magazine where it does on safety. It does take a little getting used to though :-)
If u can do a review on the Streetwise HEAT .50 it's only a buck fitty looks like a G locky ima get a s2 before a byrna and u said u have upgrade caps for the hdp50 compacts ?
Had to go look it up as I'd never heard of it either and it looks like your standard .50 caliber launcher that uses a 12 gram CO2 for more power, but it's the Quicksilver rounds that intrigue me the most. Hopefully Jon can get one on the channel to test as it does look interesting if it is built well.
I'm gonna go with s2 to me it's looks lot better and at a way cheaper price and for some reason it's like the s2 is hitting a little harder than the Byrna
That saber looks crazy looks like its got a built in safety in the handle and decent mag just hate cause it's yellow but there's ways we can fix that lol
I thought about getting the ep because its discounted, they still have some left before they are gone, i dont trust the le, it has to many issues, the sd needs a stronger first pierce shot, from all the videos ive seen on it, i might buy the s2 now since ive just now discovered it!
@@AlternateArmsSD right, there are so many new launchers over the past year or so, I have 4 now and my get one more and a fire arm, I have both mercury rise, and streetwise heat and hdp50 compact which is my least favorite, I don't like the trigger pull, it sticks and needs silicone spray quite often!
@@AlternateArmsSD yea, when I first bought hdp50 compact, it was smooth untill 4 months later then it started sticking a lot untill I sprayed it, then it was better but still pops a lil while pulling trigger all the way down, but still works, but not as smooth as brand new, it must have got more out of line, it's a practice gun anyways 😆
Does the S2 have a manufactured cut line on the top and bottom of the trigger guard on the right side? If so why did they do this? It looks like it does on some pictures on the web.
So, you're saying that would go through a human skull?? Thats powerful for not being a real gun. As always, Great video! Got the Byrna, umarex compact, s1, now for the s2, will be my edc.
Hey Brother, No Skully is printed at %40 infill and is not as hard as a human skull. However, a head shot will absolutely issue an immediate attitude adjustment :)
LoL... I bought those pinkish/purple rounds last month. I actually wasn't that impressed with them because they seem to fire slower than the Byrna Kinetic rounds so it felt like they were a bad bore match. I didn't know they were heavier. That explains why they seem to be firing slower, because of the weight. One thing I did notice is that they get dented a lot easier than the Byrna rounds. I had to toss 7 after the first time using them because the edge of the plastic table I use to hold the Trap Target dented them badly. But they're also pretty inexpensive to replace, so it's not the end of the world.
I’ll put my FSC up against either one of those launchers and my FSC will put them both to shame. And my modded FSC still comes in just under what the stock Byrna costs. But hey everyone has their own preferences so if you’re happy with what you have and feel safe with it protecting you and your family go with it.
Your keyword in that whole paragraph was “modded”. Nobody has broken into the salt supply yet, although I suppose they will very very shortly :-) also, there are a couple of people that are already starting to mod the burner as well. I love seeing this technology, advance and more options are never a bad thing. :-)
@@AlternateArmsSD when my fsc was stock it was throwing better numbers so the “modded” part was to show that even when you do that to the launcher and make it crazy powered you can still do it cheaper than what a Byrna goes for stock. I’d put a stock fsc up against either one of those markers and I’ll bet it’s a superior marker of those 2. But again it’s one persons preference over another’s that’s all.
I want to know if they are selling the hdp with the valve that isnt defective. We should not have to go through the money nor trouble for a defective and extremely dangerous marker. Have we or they seen the videos and pictures of the unthreaded and defective valve exploded with burns tvery bad injuries wich makes the whole marker defective in my eyes 👀! Bullshit!
Yeah, and that’s been a real point of contention with me as well. They are now selling launchers that are using the new valves. However, there’s no way to identify them short of opening the launcher and looking at the valve. I’d actually ask for serial number cut off so that perhaps we could identify them but was told such a list didn’t exist. It’s a little frustrating.
Thats not partical board. That is the material used for the bottom of dresser drawers and theback of old t.v/ entertainment stands. Intables. Much of a difference. I am requesting everyone to use 1/4-1/2 inch plywood. This my friends will be the true and only true way to show the effects without Movie Magic. Im starting to see through to bs from all the channels I was liking and couldn't stop watching...Get real guys...
I don’t think you’re understanding the complexity of what’s happening. Scully is printed from 40% infill. This means the rounds are going through 15 layers of plastic before it hits that board before it hits the board in the back of the target before it goes into the wall behind it. Making a less than Lethal launcher lethal is the quickest way to rocket yourself to regulation. These are designed to deter and incapacitate a target, not go completely through them.
@FLAlesslethal.... You're kind of right, but kind of wrong.... yes that is the type of material found on dresser drawers, and the back of entertainment centers cabinets. BUT..... John was not wrong when he called it particle board because it actually IS particle board..... check it out with Lowe's or Home Depot..... Many people make the mistake of thinking that particle board is OSB board. Look up OSB board..... When you see a picture of what it is, I bet you will realize that you have always been calling that particle board..... Actual particle board really is what was used in this demonstration
Very true. There is a difference in reg particle board and osb. I was very frustrated when I posted this because I just watched a few videos where they were like just blew through 3/4 inch plywood and you can plainly see that it was 1/8 inch and 1/4 inch and it came apart in pressed chips def osb or just was def not as thick as they say. Anyhow no disrespect... And your so right skully is rough n though- but poor Skully though! Much Love and respect to all. Stay safe, healthy n Blessed...
Yall shoot a bunch of plain crap.. clearly theres some damage going on.. ya gotta get ballistic gel especially for grim... Then lets break out the SDs LEs Grims umarex hatsans
@@AlternateArmsSD I don't know how much side time you got but hatsan is definitely worth looking into at some point... They make full auto semi auto and lever pump pcp airguns ranging from .177-35cal
@@choule90 Yeah, I REALLY like Hatsan. However, everyone I've fired is most assuredly lethal :) Thay are amazing though! Ive considered a series on PCP rifles.. You think folks would like it?
@@AlternateArmsSD I feel like it could make good content only because self defense is a touchy topic upon individuals.. airguns more so the full auto pcps because you have 30 and 35 to choose from which lets admit it 100s per second .35 cal is gonna feel real pretty popping out and may even be more on the lethal side than we think I can say a 35 and your blind for sure
Maybe you didn't read the packaging. The SABRE launcher is for home defense. It's not for everyday carry. It's not for your car. It's printed right on the top of the box.
ROFL My point is that is isn’t it’s sheer size makes it impractical for edc. However, there is absolutely nothing that would limit its ability to be carried in a car.
@@gobradon that is one of my only major complaints with Byrna. Presumably, they don’t put the CO2 in the magazine due to space constraints. the grip is built around the 68 caliber rounds and the width of the magazine, and that is about it. For comparison, if you pick up a pepper ball TRP, you will see the difference. The grip is very very bulky.
