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Out of Oxygen! The Tragic Story of Helios Airways Flight 522 

Mentour Pilot
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On the 14th Of August 2005 Helios Airways flight 522 took off from Larnaca, Cyprus on a routine flight via Athens to Prague. Due to a combination a of faulty cockpit setup and misidentification of the different cockpit alarms the pilots became unconscious and the aircraft continued it silent flight towards Athens without anyone at the controls.
In this video I will explain the final report and give you my view of the different things that happened on this very tragic flight.
If you have any questions or comments, feel free to ask them in the comments below.
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27 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 5 тыс.   
@wxixl
@wxixl 3 года назад
The Flight Attendant waving and then pointing down had to be one of those moments that would stay in the fighter pilots mind forever.
@EpicBunty
@EpicBunty 3 года назад
It's almost as if it's in my mind as well tbh...
@wasted2106
@wasted2106 3 года назад
wait why was she doing that?
@wasted2106
@wasted2106 3 года назад
nvm
@arfyness
@arfyness 3 года назад
@Ionian Thanks for the additional info there. To be a new pilot in training, hoping for some chance, to finally get into the flight deck and then just run out of fuel. To be the last one, and have all your efforts just not be enough... Jesus Christ.
@ThanksChris
@ThanksChris 3 года назад
So sad. Sounds like a very brave person. I think this disaster is one of the saddest.
@jivverres6859
@jivverres6859 10 месяцев назад
I remember one day during cabin crew training, where avoiding complacency during performing procedures was also discussed. At some point during Q&A the question about safety was raised. The trainer said "...air travel is very safe. It's the safest way to travel. Statistically it's 1 in 8 million that will die in a plane crash". Well. That '1 in 8 million' was sitting right next to me during training. She died on that fatefull day on Helios flight 522 while on cabin crew duty. I too was cabin crew on Helios. Briefly. To this day I shudder for a moment every time I step on a plane. I knew 7 people on that plane, PAX and crew. The lesson I learned is to never become complacent. Never. Complacency kills. Always follow procedures without fail. Thank you for the video.
@kodybass1368
@kodybass1368 7 месяцев назад
This even in my job which is to monitor alarm systems including life alert and elevators I see so much complacency that can or I should say will go wrong but bc most of my coworkers function on the mind set "assume everything is ok unless you get the vibe something wrong" rather then the safer "assume somethings wrong unless proven wrong"
@iandalcourt3384
@iandalcourt3384 3 года назад
What scares me the most after hearing each step in this incident is how many times it was said "And that procedure wasn't followed." Everywhere from the pilots... to the engineers... to the ATC. Wow.
@jamc666
@jamc666 3 года назад
am pretty impressed how many times ATC tried to contact that plane before someone finally comes up with the idea that there's something wrong .... 2-3 dozen times ?
@hairyairey
@hairyairey 3 года назад
I'd have thought the cabin crew would have realised very quickly that they were not descending. At which point they should have been banging on the cockpit door.
@jamc666
@jamc666 3 года назад
@@hairyairey ... the FO screwed up real good that time.
@hairyairey
@hairyairey 3 года назад
@@jamc666 It's just surprising no-one realised that alarm means only one thing in flight.
@jamc666
@jamc666 3 года назад
@@hairyairey ... defenitely ...
@BR-ec2ph
@BR-ec2ph 2 года назад
This is easily the most horrific story I've heard on this channel. Something about a plane just auto-piloting and going into a holding pattern with most on board dead or unconscious is just truly upsetting.
@dehanbadenhorst1398
@dehanbadenhorst1398 2 года назад
It might be in bad taste, but I think of it as a zombie plane. Or a flying cemetery. Horrible
@grey6703
@grey6703 2 года назад
@@dehanbadenhorst1398 in the industry this is called a ghost plane
@masonmunkey6136
@masonmunkey6136 2 года назад
Probably a more gentle death than being conscious right as you hit the ground I guess. Still doesn't sit right at all though
@Jon4270
@Jon4270 2 года назад
@@grey6703 You could actually make a decent ghost story about this if the auto land also went through somehow... :/
@jeremy5602
@jeremy5602 2 года назад
You've heard of ghost ships appearing on the waves, now you see ghost planes appearing in the clouds. This just kinda made me think of the plane from The Strain that landed at JFK with everyone onboard being dead.
@jammin023
@jammin023 3 года назад
I've been reading recently about how Japanese railway staff use a system called "point and call". They are trained to physically point at the thing they're checking, and speak aloud what they're seeing. This system has been proven to reduce cases of checklist items being skipped or misread. Involving more of your senses sort of forces you to pay proper attention, where a quick glance does not. Maybe it should be considered for pilots.
@WiiPetUwU
@WiiPetUwU 2 года назад
From my knowledge a similar system is also used in most airlines nowadays. The crew is trained to put their fingers above the switch they are checking and at least say quietly something like "APU Switch Off"
@thebeaz1
@thebeaz1 2 года назад
@@WiiPetUwU say quietly? What's that about?
@WiiPetUwU
@WiiPetUwU 2 года назад
@@thebeaz1 in the Japan system they say those things clearly and loudly even when no one is around. I doubt that most westeners have the discipline to keep that up
@thebeaz1
@thebeaz1 2 года назад
@@WiiPetUwU I doubt that you know what you are talking about.
@alexwu8077
@alexwu8077 2 года назад
In flight school I was always taught to call out and point any items or actions, regardless of how mundane it might be. Flying dual, sometimes I would be asked to justify/explain a specific action, even if it was a memory item on a checklist. Even flying solo, I still call out my actions to myself as I do them, as do most others that were trained this way at my school. It helps me to re-assess the situation and consider whether or not what just came out of my mouth makes any sense.
@NikoNeznanovich
@NikoNeznanovich 3 года назад
You know what hurts the most about this accident?It was so easy to prevent/avoid.
@NicolaW72
@NicolaW72 3 года назад
Indeed. One simple switch of the button... :-(
@koolerking440
@koolerking440 3 года назад
I think I’m a bit nervous of flying, I have watched mentours videos on take off and landing normal noises, which helps......but the bit that io really worry about is this sort of thing. Where something happens during maintenance, like the Air France one where the external pitriot sensors were taped over to clean the plane and the tape not removed.....those sorts of things scare me.
@conflict-tv
@conflict-tv 3 года назад
@@koolerking440 you’re more likely to be involved in a fatal car accident than be involved in a plane accident. If you can get in a car without worrying you can survive a plane just fine. 😄
@tokenlau7519
@tokenlau7519 3 года назад
@@NicolaW72 And even when this had happened, why the flight attendant did not put oxygen masks on pilots faces - that could have saved the day, too.
@rockyfalldownstairs
@rockyfalldownstairs 3 года назад
@@tokenlau7519 Because the flight attendant only got into the cockpit hours later and the pilots were almost certainly dead at that point.
@ColonelRPG
@ColonelRPG 3 года назад
This is definitely one of the most haunting accidents in aviation, in my opinion. The fact that everyone was dead except for the last flight attendant as they desperately tried to control the plane is just the stuff of nightmares, truly.
@retsis6587
@retsis6587 3 года назад
Jesus I didn’t think abt them all being dead until your comment. In my mind they were all sleeping from hypoxia but yah, they must’ve died after so long w/o enough oxygen. I can’t imagine what the flight attendant went through
@wessltov
@wessltov Год назад
@@retsis6587 Everyone just drifting into eternal sleep is the best possibility here. Some passengers or crew members might have been on enough oxygen to survive with serious brain damage
@mariawhite7337
@mariawhite7337 Год назад
It is very much the most heart breaking one, another one is and I have to preface this because its not you know a terrorist attack. Because the pilots in this were desperately trying to save the plane and their last words were unfortunately the same lines used by terrorists. I can't remember which crash it was but it was one similar to where the plane impacted a swamp and vaporized if I remember right. They are basically chanting this as a way to save the plane. It just makes me think of the loss of life, and how people have abused 'god is great' to do even more terrible things. Where these pilots there were using these words to save the plane and all the people inside.
@notrecyborg5492
@notrecyborg5492 Год назад
@@mariawhite7337 Allah Akbar is what you mean.
@GratDuForloradeArgumentet
@GratDuForloradeArgumentet Год назад
I wonder how he managed to stay alive? That's so strange
@justinporter5678
@justinporter5678 Год назад
Im quite impressed that the aircraft could still fly to its destination, approach, then enter a holding pattern until running out of fuel, all with the pilots incapacitated. Such a tragic accident.
@kay9549
@kay9549 9 месяцев назад
Its a possibility that the pilots prior to going into hypoxia, they may have placed the plane on autopilot. I am really not sure if that was the case. Such an unfortunate incident. Hopefully that the passengers were in a certain stage of hypoxia. Perhaps they were unaware of the circumstances that was happening. Hopefully that was the case. An afterthought, why did not any of the alternative crew, enter the cockpit, to try to rectify that situation. It is so hard to put a positive view on how the crew was acting at that time. They have have also been in a certain level of hypoxia as well.
@kay9549
@kay9549 9 месяцев назад
It was on autopilot, going to the set destination, that only an hour and half or so from the airport it had departed from. Since no landing, apparently it went into a holding pattern. This question had been asked, why was any of the crew that was in cabin area early on, why did they not attempt to enter cockpit. Its an unfortunate accident, not sure if they had uploaded any fuel, prior to departing; since it was only one and hour flight to destination.
@GodWorksOut
@GodWorksOut 8 месяцев назад
Nearly every commercial aircraft you fly on flies itself. The pilots are there to troubleshoot and if anything goes wrong.
@justinporter5678
@justinporter5678 8 месяцев назад
@@GodWorksOut yes and I find it quite amazing that we have technology available that makes it possible. Dope
@DeanJace0227
@DeanJace0227 8 месяцев назад
​@@justinporter5678 we have technology we're the plane could land itself. They just don't want us knowing that.
@djs2006
@djs2006 3 года назад
I had a class in aerospace physiology where we went into a room that could be depressurized to simulate air at different altitudes. At "25,000 feet" they had us take off our oxygen masks and do a simple math test. We had the masks off for 2-3 minutes. After a minute, I could not answer the questions correctly and I was writing at a slant. Later, at "35,000 feet", a select few took off their masks. After 30 seconds, their eyes were open, but the were unresponsive. They were told to put their masks back on and one person was fiddling with his, until the instructor rushed over and put it on him. He woke up startled. Based on my experience, nobody, without oxygen, would have been conscious at 34,000 feet for more than a minute.
@NicolaW72
@NicolaW72 3 года назад
Indeed. Thank you for sharing this impressive experience.
@djs2006
@djs2006 3 года назад
@@NicolaW72 Later in the class, we were exposed to 'explosive decompression'. That consisted of a smaller room connected to the larger room by a hatch in the ceiling. We were in the smaller room and told to keep our mouths open, so as not to hold our breath, and wait for the hatch to be released, then put on the mask. The hatch opened with a bang and immediately the air was foggy as the water in the air had no time to leave. To me, there was no discernible effect to my body. It was actually fun.
@NicolaW72
@NicolaW72 3 года назад
@@djs2006 But you wouldn´t want to experience this in 25000 feet height.
@djs2006
@djs2006 3 года назад
@@NicolaW72 It was more about the difference in pressures between the rooms. I think the big room was at 30,000 feet and the small room was at 8,000 feet. When the hatch blew open all the air in the small room evacuated until the two rooms were of equal pressure. I'm not sure of the resulting pressure, but we did need our masks. Experiencing that in an airplane at 25,000 feet would not be reassuring. Any or all of these bad things can happen: They stop serving drinks and snacks, They do not land at the destination airport, They lose my luggage (out the plane), The plane crashes.
@Fraukie_H
@Fraukie_H 3 года назад
@@djs2006 I think that is the one and only way to prevent such an incident best. I guess they didn't put on their masks because they thought that they could still do it if they identified that this is really the problem and wanted to save the time in case that the problem was another. I studied veterinary medicine and of course we learned about stuff like that as well. Plus I could never be a pilot, because I would turn around to the airport for every little problem and get fired for that pretty quick ;) But even if educated in things like that and extremely cautious about everything if it is not "just" my life at stake. I didn't fully understand what hypoxia does to a brain and how fast until I got in the situation. Last year I got sick (not covid but a bad infection in the lung) and after I was better already and thought it wouldn't be a big deal to go feed the chicken, I made it back into our bedroom, but I sat there and my husband asked me basic stuff like "Are you alright?" and I couldn't even understand the question, let alone answer anything, as he reported I just stared at him, unable to respond in any way. Luckily because of my job I have Oxygen at home (and it was in our bedroom already because during the infection it got a few times pretty bad) and my husband identified the problem pretty quickly. After breathing oxygen for only a few minutes and a few more (it takes a while until enough brain cells are "fed") I went back to normal. A few weeks later I underestimated that I was still in recovery, went to check on the horses and after getting back to bed my blood oxygen fell down to 73% that quick, that one moment I still knew that I have to get the oxygen and call my husband (thank god he was at home), but that was it, when he came in the room I sat on the bed, sunk down, leaned on the wall with the mask in my hand, but no longer able to put it on my face or think enough to know how to open the oxygen valve, the mask could have been a sandwich, I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference. Just like before, I went back to normal (clear thinking and 98% SpO2) in a few minutes after my husband put me on the good stuff :) If one is healthy and the "experiment" is monitored properly it is not really dangerous, so I think every one who has a job where that matters should "try" it once, no book, no lecture can make you grasp WHAT that does to your brain and how quickly every broccoli can think quicker and more logic than you can (if you still know what "thinking" means or what broccoli is). The problem is NOT that a pilot in that situation might not be able to know that he has to put the mask on, it is more like there is not much time until you are unable to know what this "oxygen" might be, let alone what steps you need to take to get it. And if there is no one with enough oxygen in the brain who can help, the point of no return comes really really quick and I think that there are very few people who can understand that without having been there (once is enough, that is something you never forget :))
@iamtheiconoclast3
@iamtheiconoclast3 3 года назад
This was maybe the most tragic of all the airline incidents I've learned about. I appreciate that you handled it with sensitivity and respect, but still managed to be frank about the facts of the case and what we can learn from it.
@mogaman28
@mogaman28 3 года назад
More tragic was that one were an Aeroflot pilot put his son at the controls and crashed the plane.
@GaryCameron
@GaryCameron 3 года назад
If I am destined to die on an aircraft at least that is how I would prefer to go. Unconscious and asleep. The last guy at the controls and the fighter pilots must have felt so utterly helpless.
@erickoster152
@erickoster152 3 года назад
@@susanh2924 If the oxygen runs out you will start to suffer from hypoxia, meaning that you can still breathe but due to lack of oxygen your brain will shut down. People who have been rescued from CO poisoning have stated that they felt no shortness of breath but something more like falling asleep.
@titanicseaturtle3808
@titanicseaturtle3808 3 года назад
Sir the tennirifee disaster was the worst involving a Panama 747 that was struck by a klm 747
@danielbengtsson1665
@danielbengtsson1665 3 года назад
Maybe the most tragic accident was that with the suicide pilot Andreas Lublitz on Germanwings or Malaysia Airlines MH17 that was shot down in Ukraine or the UIA accident in Iran where the aircraft also was shot down.
@solomonarhin
@solomonarhin 2 года назад
When I did my Emergency Rotation as a doctor my boss always said one thing, ‘think about the life threatening conditions first and make sure it’s not before considering the friendlier ones’. I’m not a pilot but I’m pretty sure cabin altitude warning horn is more important than take off configuration horn when you are already airborne
@rosesavoy9035
@rosesavoy9035 Год назад
Actual the medical field exchange procedures with aviation quite a lot
@matts4598
@matts4598 Год назад
I was thinking the same thing. As a ICU nurse, we’re trained to always first consider the worst case scenario - or acute emergency that could cause what we’re seeing. Like aviation, we have to connect clues from different alarms or equipment plus our general assessment of what we’re seeing. Confirmation bias is another problem that also affects us and can cause us to miss other clues and misunderstand the situation.
@therflash
@therflash Год назад
True, but that didn't come in the minds of pilots who were already partially hypoxic.
@bbhybris
@bbhybris Год назад
I don't understand, so you should consider life threatening first but 'not before' considering non-life threatening ones? So you should consider the friendlier one first?
@therflash
@therflash Год назад
@@bbhybris i think they meant to say "think of the life threatening conditions first, make sure [to rule them out] before considering the friendlier ones." In other words, check for life threatening first, check for everything else second.
@BlueUncia
@BlueUncia 2 года назад
Of all the air crash stories I've heard so far, somehow this one really gets to me. Maybe it's the way everyone on board was rendered totally helpless, either because they didn't understand the situation as was the case for the pilots, or because they did understand but were powerless to do anything about it, as may have been the case for some of the passengers and the rest of the crew. That last person left awake must have spent hours trying to break into that cockpit, contacting someone on the ground, fighting the controls, you name it, all while knowing that at the end they were probably the last person on that aircraft who wasn't dead or severely brain damaged. And to then have to signal to a fighter pilot (perhaps the first awake person they saw after a long time - so close yet so far away), that you're probably going to die. Absolutely harrowing.
@TheGuindo
@TheGuindo 2 года назад
god i didn't even think about him having to break into the cockpit - i had to scroll back up and check the date to make sure, and yeah, this was after 9/11, so it would've been after the cockpit doors on these planes were reinforced to prevent unauthorized access into the cockpit. i was wondering why it took so long for anybody to try checking in on the cockpit, but that explains it. that's probably just how long it took for him to get through the door.
@FlorenceSlugcat
@FlorenceSlugcat Год назад
@@TheGuindo not necesarily. It was a flight attendant. The cockpit door has a keypad outside with a code to open it. Usually, on a flight, some of the flight attendants(not necessarily all of them) have the code to open the door. This code exists for safety reasons in case the pilots need assistance or something like that. However, having the code doesnt mean you can enter. When someone enters the code, the pilots are notified by a sound, and there is about a 30 second delay before the door actually unlocks. The pilots can block the door from being unlocked by pressing a button. This ensures that, if a bad person tries to break by forcing the crew to enter code, the pilots can still prevent it from being opened, while still allowing crew to get inside in an emergency(such as if both pilots are incapacited, they will not stop the door from unlocking) Most likely, the crew member entered the code to open the door. I do not think there is any way that the flight attendant could have breached the door while in a hypoxic atmosphere(if you are interested in incidents where crew tries to break into the cockpit, there is an incident where a pilot was locked out of cockpit by the other pilot while the pilot in the cockpit crashed the plane in a mountain intentionally, killing all crew and passengers onboard. The captain could be heard banging and bashing against the door on the cockpit recorder from the moment be figured out he was locked out until the moment the plane crashed into the mountain. Despite his adrenaline and his repeated attempt to breach the door in order to save himself and everyone else onboard, he did not breach the door. Thats a full grown adult male without hypoxia
@TheGuindo
@TheGuindo Год назад
@@FlorenceSlugcat oh interesting - thanks for the additional info, I appreciate it!
@speedbird9313
@speedbird9313 Год назад
@@TheGuindo ​ I can confirm that, it is not possible to open a locked cockpit door.
@Blox117
@Blox117 Год назад
@@FlorenceSlugcat to be fair, pilots are not very strong people. they sit in a chair all day long
@MacVeneti
@MacVeneti 2 года назад
You brought tears in my eyes and wake all these memories. I do follow you and one I like about you is that you are trying to explain everything down to the detail in a nice way. It took me several months to watch this video. I use to work with Helios and unfortunately I was the guy to dispatch the aircraft on that day. I talked to the crew and passengers during boarding but no one can imagine what was to come. 15 day prior to the accident I flew with this aircraft and this captain from Athens to larnaca and was a perfect flight. Helios was a small airline but it was the first time that I saw that special bond amongst the staff in all departments. I do agree with what you said but you have to take into consideration the Cypriot culture to be able to understand some chain of events in this accident. I always enjoy watching you explain almost everything that has to do with aviation. Thank you and keep up the good work. Marios Chrysostomou
@boudicca9807
@boudicca9807 2 года назад
What a terrible experience, Mario. Thank you for commenting.
@billrimmer5596
@billrimmer5596 2 года назад
Thank u Mario!!
@MikkoRantalainen
@MikkoRantalainen 2 года назад
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Could you elaborate a bit on the culture that you think was important background for this accident?
@momchilandonov
@momchilandonov 2 года назад
Please do elaborate regarding the Cypriot culture thing.
@crib4046
@crib4046 2 года назад
I am also curious about the Cypriot culture, could you elaborate please? We would appreciate any more light you can shed on this very tragic event.
@2GreekWheels
@2GreekWheels 9 месяцев назад
This one hits home in an extreme way. I was actually on a beach very close to the airport when this happened and we saw the aircraft on what I’m now assuming was the way down, not having any idea of what was happening of course as planes flew over all the time. The one thing I keep from all your accident investigation videos is what my father, who was a fighter pilot in the Hellenic Air Force, told me a long time ago. “Failing to go through checklists thoroughly and with focus will always cause disaster, sooner or later. Always remember, aviation checklists are written in blood”.
@mangomerkel2005
@mangomerkel2005 2 месяца назад
Που ήσουνα τότε; στη Λούτσα;
@ManicEngine
@ManicEngine 3 года назад
I wish aviation's zero tolerance approach to safety hazards and accident investigations were used more widely in other industries
@zoltanonody3541
@zoltanonody3541 3 года назад
you know the only limiting factor here for many people is money, unfortunatly... there were many many stories where a man died becouse someone didnt buy the propper safety equipment only cause it was a bit more expensive... Aviation is expensive for a reason.
@matejfele9971
@matejfele9971 3 года назад
I wish they were used at Boeing.
@anteeko
@anteeko 3 года назад
Like the healt care industry..
@freddieh5539
@freddieh5539 3 года назад
And here we are a decade and a half later with the whole Boeing 737 MCAS fiasco. So much for zero tolerance....
@sydyidanton5873
@sydyidanton5873 3 года назад
Indeed ‘Tombstone Technology’ is one of the names for it. Aside from fiscal constraints other factors include both arrogance and ignorance. Ego attached to an individual or group’s protocol. It’s disgraceful it it still persists. In addition to flying I used to also work as an O.R. nurse, the anaesthetists were keen to introduce a human factors/CRM influenced system and from patient entry until transfer to recovery or ICU there are numerous parallels to a commercial flight from prior to pax boarding to disembarking. It was the surgeons who were completely against it. Realistically errors and miscommunication stems from the surgical team far and above the anaesthesia team. Arrogance and ignorance strike again!
@dontgetmadgetwise4271
@dontgetmadgetwise4271 2 года назад
A moral of this story… Just because a checklist was uneventful for the first thousand flights doesn’t mean it won’t save your life on the next.
@alsheremeta
@alsheremeta 8 месяцев назад
Error made by the ground crew, and many errors by the pilots, but how negligent is it for a plane to have an audible alarm with nothing visual to tell the pilots what it is for....
@olexandrs3385
@olexandrs3385 7 месяцев назад
@@alsheremetaAgree. If the difference between manual and auto modes is death, then there should be such an indication that the pilots would have no chance to miss
@michaelharder3055
@michaelharder3055 5 месяцев назад
@@olexandrs3385 Hell yeah, warning lights should have blinded the pilots in this situation, but the difference between manual and auto modes is not death. As he said, it is perfectly normal to fly in manual mode. There is so much negligence here, which was also mentioned several times in the conclusion. You can't design your way to safety without proper training and procedures. Until we have completely autonomous planes, we will have to rely on people being competent at their job.
@sweetbottom6018
@sweetbottom6018 3 месяца назад
@Vlasko60 and ppl not using seatbelt durring wholle flight... instead some ppls are like .. im so special i dont want to i dont need to use seatbelt... then turbulence will hit you out of nowhere like the one that hit Singapore airlines flight 321 and ppl without seatbelt are flying everywhere and dying for also no reason we could say
@NotAnotherArtVideo
@NotAnotherArtVideo 7 дней назад
@@michaelharder3055 Autonomous planes will design, build, and maintain themselves to flawless standards? And write perfect, error-free software for themselves? People will always have to be competent at their jobs. Autonomous planes are not safe, because they can't respond to things that don't make sense. Humans at least have a chance to think. Software doesn't.
@mattsains
@mattsains 3 года назад
As they say, procedures like these are “written in blood” - they are there because someone has already died because it wasn’t done
@majedmj7270
@majedmj7270 3 года назад
Sad truth look around us. Most road signs, laws and regulations exist because people lost their lives before
@NickDalzell
@NickDalzell 3 года назад
Whatever happened to planning ahead? A lot of these procedures should have been common sense when you really think about it!
@carlosbarzottowirti1895
@carlosbarzottowirti1895 3 года назад
The procedures are made to cover everything. But sometimes, a little deviation (caused by multiple factors) can cause an accident. It's quite hard to predict every little thing that can go wrong.
@jonathanlebon9705
@jonathanlebon9705 3 года назад
@@NickDalzell Because there are known knowns, and known unknowns, but there are also unknown unknowns.
@NicolaW72
@NicolaW72 3 года назад
Yes, exactly.
@markc2643
@markc2643 3 года назад
I've got my own "switch in the wrong position" story. I was in ground radio in the Air Force 30+ years ago. I got a call at 2AM that there was no tower recorder indicator in the tower console. The tower recorder and the approach recorder were both in the approach facility. I drove to the approach facility, walked in and found the tower recorder in...(you guessed it)..manual. The approach controllers were only on duty until midnight, and there was a checklist that was done that included checking the recorders when their shift was over. They would have been talking to the tower controllers and going through that checklist. They left the recorder in manual and missed that part of the checklist, and then the tower controllers didn't notice they were missing the recorder light on their console until 2 hours later. I was pissed that I had to wake up at 2AM and go fix their screw up and lose hours of sleep, and I let them know it.
@sharoncassell9358
@sharoncassell9358 2 года назад
I worked on commercial refrigerators for a hospital. Someone defrosted a freezer and went home. I came on 4pm 1600 duty. I checked temps And one was climbing. I tried to troubleshoot and jumped out a switch circuit on top of the freezer. It went off. Then i hunted for circuit breakers. The door was locked . I found out the supervisor who turned it off to defrost had gone home & forgot.i had called the boss & told him $5000.00 worth of salmon would rot overnight. He was going to pay a contractor 500 dollars to fix the problem. In the interim we called the supervisor back from home 8 at night 2000 hours. Then we turned on the circuitbreaker thus the freezèr. Cancelled the contractor just in time. Everyone had salmon the next day.
@Mark-oj8wj
@Mark-oj8wj 3 года назад
I worked with this Captain in a different airline.Its surprising from a procedural point of view because he was very diligent and I remember people always commented that his writing was like a typewriter.However as far as him being difficult to work with,thats an understatement.He also had anger issues.Still this was a shock to learn he was the captain of this flight.God bless them all,may they rest in peace!
@NicolaW72
@NicolaW72 2 года назад
I can imagine that. Thank you for sharing your experience.
@kunalsingh4418
@kunalsingh4418 2 года назад
Still although Captain went to the wrong train of thought, the biggest problems were really done by the first officer imo. He didn't do the due diligence to check the pressurization is on auto or not. Not one but 3 times. Captain probably thought that since first officer had confirmed thrice already that Pressurization was on auto that there would simply be no issue that end. Confirmation bias really. Of course not denying that his character would have contributed for the CRM related reasons for the crash. Still it's my pedestrian opinion though based on video. You would obviously know better.
@Mark-oj8wj
@Mark-oj8wj 2 года назад
@@kunalsingh4418 Its always the Captains responsibility to ensure things are done correctly!
@autumnleaves2766
@autumnleaves2766 Год назад
This is so sad. One switch left in the wrong position sets in motion a chain of events which leads to incapacitated crew and an eventual crash with no survivors. That's a terrifying thought. My heart goes out to that lone flight attendant who stayed conscious. A chilling case, as usual presented excellently by Mentour. Thanks for your superb videos.
@kay9549
@kay9549 8 месяцев назад
autumnleaves2766 unfortunately the flight crew, on doing initial checklist did not realize the switch was in manual not auto setting.
@blackrose89-96
@blackrose89-96 3 года назад
Oh my god. I' m from Greece and I will never never forget that day of August 2005. That day will haunt my entire life. Back then I was 16 years old and i still remember that All Greece and Cyprus was mourning. This incident will never be erased from our hearts. I wish no country live this tragedy, no man feel this heavy mourn. Dear mentor pilot i really appreciate your analysis and your key remarks as an specialized in aircrafts. I think that this flight changed forever the global aviation code. Ηelios was crashed 40chm outside Athens in a mountain called Grammatikos. In this place has erected a monument in memory of the victims. In this monument there are all the photos of the passengers of the fatal flight. This fact is is really creepy and very very touching. Whole families died in this tragic plain mothers and fathers with their little children. 121 passengers and six members of the crew were lost forever. Omg as i write to you tears are rising up to my eyes. For days and days our televisions were showing the debris of the plain, the rescue crews to try to retrieve the bodies from the debris and the huge fire that the fire Department was trying to quench. Oh i remember the black smoke above the sky of Athens....And the tragic families of victims to scream and cry and their deep pain was and still remains unhealed. Only a few bodies were recognized by their relatives in the hospital and the others were recognized by DNA test. After a few years i remember that at the point of they crash they found a nine years old girl's diary that was inside the only one suitcase that were found intact from the crash. It was a black day in the modern Greek and Cyprian history. Dear Mentor pilot you re so right when you re saying that the analysis and the explanation of such tragic accidents must be investigated in order to explain the mistakes that lead into lose of innocent human lives. You re so right when you're saying that the juman genre must learn from its mistake. That not only minimizes but also prevents the future dangers up in the air and also save many many lives. Thank you very much for your enlightening podcast and for your composure and sobriety in this helpful analysis. After all these years now i finally understood what happened back then. Thank you. God bless you and your family.
@someboy89
@someboy89 3 года назад
i was 16 aswell, stuck with me, recall it on the news and knew what must have happened, then hearing the flt attendant had tried his best to intervene but was helpless.
@moviemad56
@moviemad56 3 года назад
ειλικρινά συλλυπητήρια από την Αυστραλία
@georgemargaritis2392
@georgemargaritis2392 3 года назад
Ήμουν 15 Ακόμα θυμάμαι το σοκ που ειχαμε νιώσει όλοι μας
@williamsstephens
@williamsstephens 3 года назад
My sincere condolences, black rose 89. This was such a horrific tragedy - it's very hard to recover from such a thing. I'll pray for peace in your heart and soul.
@kilicsami
@kilicsami 3 года назад
“Black Rose 89” 😞.... I have read it all and now realised your ‘YT name’. Things will be better 🙏🏻 and.....
@DarkLumiya
@DarkLumiya 3 года назад
We had friends in this flight, thank for explaining what happened and caused this, it was chaos at the time.
@jenelaina5665
@jenelaina5665 3 года назад
I'm sorry for your loss
@Gencturk92
@Gencturk92 3 года назад
@@jenelaina5665 hard to imagine what his friends were like, slowly passing out and desperate for oxygen
@neolexiousneolexian6079
@neolexiousneolexian6079 3 года назад
@@Gencturk92 Why would you say that.
@Gencturk92
@Gencturk92 3 года назад
@@neolexiousneolexian6079 because thats exactly what happened, wonder how scared people were to see people sitting next to them slowly passing out and desperate for the oxygen mask.
@Black_Razor
@Black_Razor 2 года назад
@@neolexiousneolexian6079 it seems like there is 0 situational awareness here lol
@ΑπόλλωνΘηρευτής
@ΑπόλλωνΘηρευτής 2 года назад
That day, I was returning from the sea with my children. We were driving up the mountain (Pendeli), when we suddenly saw smoke on the back side. For a moment I thought it was a fire and hurried away, but when we got home we saw on the news what had happened. It was a day of great mourning and sadness for all of us, Cypriots and Greeks.
@alk672
@alk672 2 года назад
All the human mistakes aside, we have to appreciate the tremendous failure of the warning system. With all the complicated computers and sensors, the complete failure to deliver a simple message of "low cabin pressure" is impressive.
@DonFahquidmi
@DonFahquidmi 2 года назад
IKR. Simpler systems could reduce test saturation and misunderstanding.
@jcxz983
@jcxz983 2 года назад
@@DonFahquidmi Oxygen deprivation sneaking up on you slowly is exactly the kind of thing a computer could monitor. A human will be partially incapacitated before he notices it. A computer just keeps working the same without oxygen. As a programmer these reports sometimes drive me up the wall, because implementing something like that is neither complicated nor expensive. It would be really easy to create a voice warning for "Subtle oxygen loss" or something of that sort.
@hubriswonk
@hubriswonk 2 года назад
I must disagree for the most part. Yes, it would be nice if there were a different sound for each alarm and I think there should be, but when this alarm sounds both pilots should have instantly checked only two probable causes instantaneously. The fact there are only two reason for this sound and the fact they failed to look at the pressure controls is amazing. I am an operator at a power plant and the steps I follow to identify alarms and failures is step by step and by knowing what sounds go with what alarms and how all the systems relate to each other. I also have a little right seat time in airplanes and it is the same concept. I must place the blame of this accident on the mechanic that tested the pressure system, FO and Captain.
@alk672
@alk672 2 года назад
@@hubriswonk I wonder if one can compare the kind of systems knowledge that is required of a power plant operator to that required of a pilot. While a power plant operator is definitely not a theoretical physicist, your average pilot has a really, really weak systems knowledge. A lot of pilots have zero technical background. That could have been the deciding factor in situations like these.
@binterz
@binterz 2 года назад
@@hubriswonk what if hypoxia is already set in? a big booming voice - put on your mask. followed by descend repeatedly until you've reached a safe altitude? really really simple to implement, simple to understand, if hypoxia is the danger take as much understanding and decision making out of the process as you can
@PiperAtTheGatesOfYourMom
@PiperAtTheGatesOfYourMom 3 года назад
So, im in the US Air Force and i work a job where we use checklists for EVERYTHING. Even as simple as calling a commander to let him know his airman is passed out drunk in the middle of the road... its all standardized and procedural. Having known many pilots, they too are also following their checklists down to the dot. Ive seen it personally how one overlook on one single word, or trying to do one simple task based on memory can completely jeopardize the mission, the resources and lives. Its crucial, its there for a reason, and as someone else said in these comments, “theyre written in blood”
@TheHobade
@TheHobade 3 года назад
Then if the switch is so important, why haven’t Boeing guarded the switch with a red placard? Pilots have been requesting this for decades!
@TheHobade
@TheHobade 3 года назад
shankar singh why is Cyprus a third world?
@tsilin.1330
@tsilin.1330 3 года назад
completelly agree but me being in my country's army as well i have to say that those procedures are battered into our heads over many months and years. Furthermore , the army is very rigid and doesnt have any expectations towards customer satisfaction. in th commercial sector this isnt the case. Deadlines are to be met cause money is god...
@RedHairdo
@RedHairdo 3 года назад
A bit ironic how although life-saving concerns are in place, the US Air Force is sent out to kill innocents without remorse.
@dirtyharry1881
@dirtyharry1881 3 года назад
@shankar singh I misread your comment
@iasonas2010
@iasonas2010 3 года назад
The plane crashed just some miles north of my summer house. I was 10 years-old at the moment and still remember the whole family watching the news in shock. It was a hot summer day, more than 35 degrees outside and the sky was red that evening. I will never forget the feeling of the atmosphere. Now, 15 years later im training to become a professional pilot. Im in the inital stage and on my flight yesterday i forgot to switch the landing lights on during startup. My instructor told me "remember, helios crashed just because of one knob". I am determined not to ever skip an item in the checklist from now on. We will do our best, to keep aviation the safest industry as our predecessors did. Thank you for the amazing video Peter.
@michaellidster1389
@michaellidster1389 3 года назад
Focus instead on making AI pilots. They will be far superior
@kay9549
@kay9549 2 месяца назад
@iasonas2010 that is why you do ✔ lists; also cross ✔ to confirm all is in order prior to taking flight. Its so unfortunate they crew in cockpit did not realize that a knob was out of position; sure that's its clearly marked. Do understand that the co pilot was younger, than the pic; cultures come into play mostly European countries, as well in Asia.
@foxjacket
@foxjacket 2 года назад
I did not know about the flight attendant waving to the F-16s. I can't imagine what that was like for him or the fighter jet pilots. 😥 Wikipedia says this about him: "However, [Andreas] Prodromou succeeded in banking the plane away from Athens and towards a rural area as the engines flamed out. There were no ground casualties." So he knew the plane was going to crash and one of the final decisions of his life was to make sure it didn't crash into a residential area. He was a hero.
@makeitrainnaren
@makeitrainnaren 2 года назад
He wanted to be a pilot for Helios and held a CPL, he's a hero.
@mojomomo1475
@mojomomo1475 Год назад
He should be remembered and a token for rememberence of this
@overcomingobstaclescreates1695
Wow all through the video and the comments, I could look at the case objectively, being compassionate but not emotional. But reading this made me lose it.😭
@tryarunm
@tryarunm Год назад
You must be one of the very few to recognise his heroism. Thank you for being so empathetic, for being able to put yourself in his shoes.
@HidInMistProductions
@HidInMistProductions Год назад
I did not know this. Thank you for sharing.
@ariochiv
@ariochiv 3 года назад
I'd heard this story before (as part of a "ghost ship" summary), and the most chilling part was when the interceptors saw someone alive in the cockpit trying to do something. That there was someone still alive when the plane slammed into the ground. Thanks for the detailed breakdown.
@PetThePeeves
@PetThePeeves Год назад
I always hoped because he was I’m sure so intensely focusing on staying awake that maybe his adrenaline dropped and he was able to pass out first. I hope so.
@johnk8825
@johnk8825 3 года назад
The Flight Channel keeps your attention with a few details and dramatic music, you kept our attention with real images and detailed explanation after detailed explanation that you couldn't stop listening to. An excellent video, sir.
@KingdomArtz
@KingdomArtz 3 года назад
Why you feel the need to hate on TFC? I bet they're pretty cool with each other. Why shouldn't they. The aviation community is small as it is and toxic people like you are a shame for the whole community. TFC does a great job in giving you a feeling of being in the cockpit and living the moment. Stop being so toxic.
@mef9327
@mef9327 3 года назад
@@KingdomArtz Dude's not allowed to have an opinion? Cry more, Karen.
@KingdomArtz
@KingdomArtz 3 года назад
MEF it's not an opinion it's toxic hate. Your brain capacity isn't enough to understand the difference. Also liking your own comment like a pathetic low life.. you are a joke
@mef9327
@mef9327 3 года назад
@@KingdomArtz You're clearly confused about who is the toxic one here, dopey. Oh and I didn't "like" my own comment, little man.
@MrAkurvaeletbe
@MrAkurvaeletbe 3 года назад
@@mef9327 Why are you such a miserable person ?
@amyg9518
@amyg9518 3 года назад
As someone who has had flight anxiety for twenty years, hearing you talking about these incidents has helped a ton. You're able to give a pilot's perspective, explain why these are such unusual incidents, and describe the kinds of steps that have been taken since then that have been implemented into your own training. I hear you tell these stories and I feel safer to fly with each one. We laypeople often hear about these disasters, but we never hear about how seriously the aviation industry takes each and every one, even the ones that seem like they would never happen again. Other things that have been massively helpful were your descriptions of what's happening during takeoff and landing (the sinking feeling always, always freaked me out) and your summarization of the different types of turbulence.
@Shelsight
@Shelsight 3 года назад
Completely agree. Esp the sinking feeling during takeoff which used to freak me out… This channel is great at not dramatising the crashes - but explaining the issues and how they are addressed
@juliepeasley7131
@juliepeasley7131 2 года назад
I totally agree! I am hooked on this channel and it’s actually making me less fearful. The more knowledge I have, the better I feel about flying. It’s really lifted the veil on aviation for me and as tragic as these accidents are, I too feel better knowing each one makes for a safer future.
@theyxaj
@theyxaj Год назад
You might be interested in Tom Scott Plus's video on him confronting a fear of roller coasters. He says that the stomach-drop feeling is just from fear, not physics. I thought it was interesting even if Tom Scott's presentation style doesn't work for you (it doesn't for me).
@viktorbirkeland6520
@viktorbirkeland6520 8 месяцев назад
Yep. I never had flight fright at all, slept through turbulence and landings, but I understand that not knowing how things work can freak some out. My tip is to just ask to sit besides someone experienced and calm who can talk to you, and / or tell the flight attendants, as they watch and appreciate knowing, so they can easier help if trouble / panick. I usually get switched by flight attendands, as I am so ridiculously much taller than everyone else that I think they feel bad for me. I literally don't fit in a standard seat, as my legs would reach through the entire seat and likely touch the person in fron's back a little, if the seat wasnt there. Always have gum, read safety briefings, they aren't all alike, keep windows open on landings and takeoffs. If you need help, just ask people nicely. If you get a bad response, ask someone else. You can meet both nice and terrible people on a plane. I bring headset to listen to music or watch movies, but I used to fly up to twice a month for 6 + years
@adimi87
@adimi87 2 года назад
I remember flying in that plane a week prior to that accident . I remember the cabin was so cold and unbearable, eventually we arrived to Athens and all passengers where complaining about the temperature inside the cabin. A week passed and i can still hear all those peoples relatives crying. God bless their souls and give strength to their families.
@TheAlchemicalPortal
@TheAlchemicalPortal 3 года назад
Cypriot here !! I remember this day, my brother was a flight attendant and last minute they told him that they found another guy to go (Andreas) which was best friends with my brother... i can't forget how much he was crying after the news broke out . What a sad day
@DaVinci368
@DaVinci368 3 года назад
How incredibly sad for all involved...,
@dynasty0019
@dynasty0019 3 года назад
Andreas took the flight to spend time with his girlfriend who was also working on that flight. If she wasn't scheduled for Flight 522, then he wouldn't be working. Your brother was very lucky.
@CP140405
@CP140405 3 года назад
A slow depressurization is scary. When I went through military aircrew training we went "up" in a pressure chamber to FL 240 (pressure altitude) in order for us to experience slow depressurization and our own individual symptoms ( mine are tingling lips) so that if we experienced those same symptoms in flight we would hopefully realize what was occurring and initiate the emergency oxygen procedure with the intercom call ... "CREW! OXYGEN OXYGEN OXYGEN!"
@thomasblanchard6778
@thomasblanchard6778 2 года назад
Every pilot rated to fly high altitudes should have this training step!
@sudiptomukherji1100
@sudiptomukherji1100 2 года назад
I don't know whether anyone else has realised or said this before, but Captain Petter's style of narrations are so calming that his videos are a source of ASMR for me as well. Normally, I watch his videos at night, before sleeping. Despite the videos containing disturbing details of loss of lives & stuff, I always get a good night's sleep, thanks to his reassuring messages & his enchanting style of speaking. 🥰🙂🙏🏻👍🏻👍🏻
@barbaraperry5023
@barbaraperry5023 2 года назад
I completely agree. The facts are presented without any bias, and with the consideration and respect they deserve.
@slniecko186
@slniecko186 Год назад
Me too I listen to him in the evening before going to sleep😊
@ellikon9127
@ellikon9127 3 года назад
I am from Cyprus and it was a big tragety for our country especially for those families.I knew a whole family ,parents and kids that had gone on that ghost flight.From that day i am very afraid whenever i have to fly and always remember .....
@madgreek253
@madgreek253 3 года назад
My father is from and lives in Piraeus
@MentourPilot
@MentourPilot 3 года назад
Sorry to hear that. This was indeed a tragedy
@ellikon9127
@ellikon9127 3 года назад
@@madgreek253 I love Greece!.
@madgreek253
@madgreek253 3 года назад
@@ellikon9127 opa!!
@Infernal_Crimson
@Infernal_Crimson 3 года назад
Actually, after watching the detailed info of the accident, people should stop saying it to be a ghost flight..
@Spikeypup
@Spikeypup 2 года назад
I don't know what is worse, being that flight attendant who is one of only a handful of people alive, having to watch people fade away in the cabin, or being one or the F-16 pilots that must watch helplessly as this plane goes down. Honestly, I feel bad for both but especially that cabin crewmember who, once they finally got access to the cockpit, saw the horror of all the flight crew being out of commission, confirming their worst fears, but as a pilot, having a feeling they have somewhat of a chance to get this under control, and then seeing the F-16's and feeling a little reassured... they strap in, put on their mask and headset, they start to assess the situation....and just when they have their bearings, the left engine dies...they scramble to figure out why and while that happens, the right engine dies... and at that point...they know...they know it's over. So, all they can do is gesture to the other pilots watching from the fighter jets... with a simple finger point, that they are going down. The cabin crewmember gives them a final nod and wave goodbye as they prepare themselves for the final few horrifying minutes of their life. Honestly, this situation is why TAGOUT/LOCKOUT exists in so many fields and industries, if a switch or control is moved away from a nominal setting for maintenance, or if that connected circuit or "thing" is being worked on or is not "functioning as expected/normal" due to a temporary configuration, fault or alteration, it must be tagged with a physical tag (and locked with a lock or device that prevents the control from moving/changing when possible) that details: WHO is working on the item, WHY they are working on it, and WHEN the condition change started and when it should be finished. When the engineer or worker is done, they simply ensure the switch/control is set to the nominal setting or prior setting if that is what is required, test to ensure proper operation of control in all positions (in case they fixed one thing but broke another, etc.), and THEN they can remove the tag. For cases where a tag may not work then a clear but simple mark (like grease pen)/a clip/a cover/etc. is used on the switch/control to Indicate it is marked/tagged and that it has been or may at any time be moved away from its current or its default/nominal/operating position, so that the person servicing the system in question can easily see what they've modified and set it all back when done, as well as so any person coming into the environment can see right away what is not set to "default/nominal/operating" and be made aware that it is modified somehow and needs to be checked again before final sign-off on the job. Again, the worker simply removes the tag/mark/clip/cover/etc. once work is completed and after setting all controls back to the way they found them, the person signing off on the work then verifies that all switches and controls are in the correct position/status. Yes, tagout/lockout is annoying to adhere to sometimes, but again this procedure exists because it is proven to save lives and prevent accidents. Sometimes a switch or control is located tens, hundreds, thousands of meters or even thousands of kilometers away from the element being worked on by the engineer/worker, and this tag is essential to preventing injury or death to them by accidental activation or movement of a switch or control surface, it's a way to say "HEY DON'T TOUCH THIS KNOB/SWITCH/ETC! SOMEONE IS WORKING ON THIS CIRCUIT/ELEMENT! DO NOT ALTER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!". I have seen or experienced situations where following the tag procedure has saved lives, and unfortunately, I've also seen where failure to follow this simple procedure has cost lives or caused severe injury and/or damage. So, I must wonder, was this procedure followed by the Engineer, I'm guessing not, because he would have remembered to move the switch back to Auto, or the pilots would have seen the tag and double-checked things better, I would hope. So, I wonder if the airline strictly enforces tagout/lockout or something like it, if they didn't then, I hope they do now. Had they have done it then, this shouldn't have happened, but then again, it was just one failed link in the chain of checklists and routines that caused this accident, it was a cumulation of one failure to follow one procedure/protocol after another by one person after another. No amount of checking and rechecking is too much when lives are at stake... This tragedy could have been stopped by a $0.03 clip or cover used on the switch, a $0.02 tag attached to the switch, or even a simple dob with a grease pen to make it standout and known it was changed... If all three were used I guarantee this would have prevented this tragedy...all it would have taken was $0.10 or less and 20-30 seconds for the engineer to affix the cover/clip to the switch and fill out the tag, attach that to the switch... and done. I don't blame the guy solely; it must have been a culture of bad management and safety as well as oversight and training that contributed to this. Glad that changes and updates were made to the instruments as well as the procedures, so long as those poor people's lives weren't in vain. RIP Pax and Crew of 522...
@thedudewhoeatspianos
@thedudewhoeatspianos Месяц назад
These older videos confirm that you've always made extremely high quality content, even if you've upped your production values since then. Thanks for your thorough and thoughtful work!
@lukeorlando4814
@lukeorlando4814 3 года назад
Complacency. You read the same list multiple times a day. See the same dials every day. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next to never never saw that dial moved before so when coming up to it in the check list, they look in the dials direction and “check, yup that dial is still there” but don’t really look AT it as such:
@MIGBMWLOVER
@MIGBMWLOVER 3 года назад
probably what happened exactly
@Trevor_Austin
@Trevor_Austin 3 года назад
That was a superb explanation. The technical stuff combined with the antiquity of this aircraft’s design created the conditions that exposed this crew’s weaknesses. Unfortunately there too many pilots flying who should be doing a different job. I’m talking about the arrogant idiots, the incompetent, the inflexible, those with a personality bypass (and other flaws) and scared pilots. I’ve flown with far too many of these types in both seats. Fortunately they are few in number. I’ll suggest this particular captain was one of those doing the wrong job. I say that not because of what you said but from what two first officers I have flown with told me. They flew several times with this captain and described in detail how he operates. Neither tell a pretty story. My own experience from incident/accident investigation also tells me that there people wholly unsuitable to be anywhere near aircraft. For members of the general public reading my comments may I will tell you that the chance of being flown by two weak pilots being teamed up AND a technical incident occurring pushing this crew beyond their capabilities AND the flight ending unpleasantly is still exceedingly remote.
@MentourPilot
@MentourPilot 3 года назад
Well said
@elliottkingdom
@elliottkingdom 3 года назад
what's your opinion on malaysia 777?
@stevedavenport1202
@stevedavenport1202 3 года назад
@@elliottkingdom It was sabotaged by the pilot
@TheHobade
@TheHobade 3 года назад
That command chain attitude doesn’t finish at the crew. It sometimes goes all the way up to to the C.E.O.!
@NicolaW72
@NicolaW72 3 года назад
I fully agree with you. Here in this comments you can find some interesting informations about this specific Captain and his history, too. It would be interesting to have more first-hand-evidence on this topic. The Captain was according to this informations a former Interflug Pilot in East Germany who type rated for the 737 during the time of the German reunification. He jumped since than from one short-time-job to the next one. Obviously and - at least what we know in public - he had huge difficulties with CRM. There was obviously also a huge cultural barrier not only between him and his FO but also between him and his other co-workers in this company. It was indeed very bad luck that exceptionally he was the Captain of this flight. And it´s really very sad to see how easily all this lives could have saved.
@YourFreeBeats
@YourFreeBeats 2 года назад
Muhammad Ali said the moment he became afraid of flying was the first time he saw a cockpit. “When I saw all those controls…buttons, levers, and switches….I thought ‘what if just one thing is off?’”
@davidwebb4904
@davidwebb4904 3 года назад
Stupid bells and whistles. There should be verbal alarms. “Cabin pressure alert!!!”
@michaelm1
@michaelm1 3 года назад
Yeah... that would have solved it.
@jan-lukas
@jan-lukas 3 года назад
@Guillaume Huet in this particular case I didn't understand the sarcasm as well, maybe I was thinking too much about if it's "until" or "that", because I'm no native English speaker
@mikek5298
@mikek5298 3 года назад
Or, the professionals that we pay and train to oversee and fly the airplane could do their jobs.
@TraditionalAnglican
@TraditionalAnglican 3 года назад
@@mikek5298 - Airlines & manufacturers want to make planes that could fly with one pilot. Humans are very bad at repetitive tasks, while computers are very good at these.
@Kedvespatikus
@Kedvespatikus 3 года назад
@@TraditionalAnglican Computers are extremely diligent and extremely stupid. A lethal combination.
@panayiotispapakyriakou5258
@panayiotispapakyriakou5258 3 года назад
Unfortunately this happened in my home country and I had a distant relative in that flight. I have learned a lot from your video, thank you.
@MIGBMWLOVER
@MIGBMWLOVER 3 года назад
things that was not explained in detail I imagine!
@dianalutz6141
@dianalutz6141 Год назад
Dear Mentour Pilot. I worked for 40 years to improve science writing and your videos are exactly the sort of thing I was aiming for. Thank you so much.
@brucewhitney6650
@brucewhitney6650 Год назад
I’m so impressed with his ability to remember and relate the incredible amount of detail (seemingly) from memory!!😮
@AegisEdge
@AegisEdge Год назад
ikr
@The-Rose-and-the-Cross
@The-Rose-and-the-Cross 3 года назад
When you mentioned the pilots not using their oxygen masks, that reminded me a Smithsonian video (on another flight, can't remember which one) where the crew became incapacitated because the item was far down in their checklist.
@The-Rose-and-the-Cross
@The-Rose-and-the-Cross 3 года назад
[of a*]
@patrickfromm105
@patrickfromm105 3 года назад
That was the Payne Stewart Learjet crash.
@matthewmiller6068
@matthewmiller6068 3 года назад
As a nervous flyer, I hate hearing about the accidents but I really DO appreciate understanding just how many things had to go wrong at the same time for it to happen, and I also appreciate hearing how changes are forced to ensure it can't happen again. It doesn't help my irrational fears, but at least I do understand its safe (even if I am still freaking out). I'm the strange person who during a diversion for low fuel was in panic "omg I'm going to have to endure more extra take-offs than planned idk if I can handle this" while I can explain to everyone around me (freaking out about zomg out of gas) why its actually still safe because there are mandatory fuel minimums to safely divert to a safe place and it actually just means they can't continue to the original destination with enough fuel to double-back to the alternate safely.
@MIGBMWLOVER
@MIGBMWLOVER Месяц назад
Every year in August I search for this accident again in memory of those who died that day. The general public and the media in Greece opt to forget the most tragic aeroplane accident in history.
@rebeccazegstroo6786
@rebeccazegstroo6786 2 года назад
My mental mantra in the hospital lab is "assume sabotage". Settings get changed. Things happen that don't get communicated. Trust that everything is as it should be at your peril.
@feudiable
@feudiable 3 года назад
I was wondering: As a professional pilot, do you frequently go over these reports to learn from mistakes of others as part of your job, or is that just your own curiosity and desire to learn more?
@MentourPilot
@MentourPilot 3 года назад
Yes, as part of our recurrent training we often use “case studies” to emphasize learning points.
@Mark.G475
@Mark.G475 3 года назад
@@MentourPilot have you ever been to the EAA in Oshkosh Wisconsin 🇺🇸? Mark in Milwaukee 🧀. If you have would did you think?
@vincentwesolowski459
@vincentwesolowski459 3 года назад
Good Recap of this incident. I always enjoy your videos. After this incident did they change any of the cabin crew procedures?
@Delibro
@Delibro 3 года назад
@@vincentwesolowski459 He answered this in the video.
@andreizav7040
@andreizav7040 3 года назад
@@MentourPilot you say the report on the captain was that he was very meticulous.. but then the story of the accident goes on to completely discredits that claim..
@carlmcdaniel5681
@carlmcdaniel5681 2 года назад
I have never really had a special interest in aviations, but after watching a mentor pilot video I have been hooked and being watching all of them, you explain things so clearly that most everyone can understand. Great job and thank you for the info and awareness!
@Baby_Odol
@Baby_Odol 2 года назад
Me too, and now I watch his videos everyday 😁
@TheBurzhuy
@TheBurzhuy 3 года назад
OK, if "Manual" is not something that should be red lighted, it deferentially should be non-green lighted, because of rare usage. Our brain is trained that green is safe and it also tends to skip things in order to save time and energy, so in this case "manual" should have better be purple or something so eye would catch it.
@bluesioux9538
@bluesioux9538 3 года назад
I was thinking the same thing. We automatically think "ok" when we see green, need something else that commands attention
@ShaunPuzon
@ShaunPuzon 3 года назад
Maybe they could have the light flash when the cabin altitude warning horn goes off to draw attention to the panel, since Boeing decided to use the same horn for multiple warnings.
@miguelmedeiros4824
@miguelmedeiros4824 3 года назад
I can't agree more. It should be flashing, perhaps switching between bright green and bright yellow. From a design perspective, people need to critically think, and constantly think "How is this decision going to potentially lead to loss of life". It is very easy for designers to overlook the consequences of their decisions and these issues are hidden in subtleties.
@NicolaW72
@NicolaW72 3 года назад
You indeed have to think "around the corner" to figure out why green is here something dangerous. Pilots shouldn´t have to think "around the corner" in an emergency situation - and you shouldn´t expect as an airplane constructor that all pilots are able to "think around the corner". Yes.
@mateuszzimon8216
@mateuszzimon8216 3 года назад
@@77l96 If u hear take off configuration warning 10 times and one time u read "if take off configuration warning is active in air that means u have problems with cabin pressurization". Your brain goes to false "take off configuration"
@bschneidez
@bschneidez 2 года назад
Bro, every single one of these videos make me feel SAFER about flying. You go through great pains to explain exactly how because of each one of these crashes, that issue can never cause a crash again.
@barbaraperry5023
@barbaraperry5023 2 года назад
I agree EXACTLY. I always feel respect for the departed,& gratitude for those NTSB crews who provide a lesson from the investigation and information gained. If someone says these detailed 'reconstructions of accidents' are morbid, that is sad. They show us and (hopefully)make us understand what went wrong,& challenge us to discover ways to make commercial aviation safer. No lives are lost in vain from plane crashes...all are remembered by new education/procedures/fabrication directives. By implementing what their lives taught us, many, many more are saved.
@bschneidez
@bschneidez 2 года назад
@@barbaraperry5023 - Exactly
@blackhawks81H
@blackhawks81H 3 года назад
I get having to duplicate alarm sounds due to the sheer amount of things that can cause alarms. But so many other systems in these planes have verbal callouts, i.e. The GPWS, TCAS, etc. Why not have a verbal alarm for a system THIS vital to life and safety?
@goaski474
@goaski474 2 года назад
Worked in the nuclear power industry for 25 years. We train the same; procedures, critical thinking, mind set, safety culture etc. The sad thing is 99% of accidents are preventable. Thanks, great channel!
@stavrosantoniou4949
@stavrosantoniou4949 3 года назад
I remember being on holiday in Athens at the time of this incident, I was 9 years old but remember as if it was yesterday. The whole country was in a state of shock! Such a tragic and horrific incident which occurred due to a series of unfortunate events, each one avoidable with sufficient training and proper communication. It’s a bitter sweet situation that aviation has become a much safer place because of what we have learnt from this. @mentorpilot much appreciated for such a great explanation and fantastic video. I think for those of us especially in aviation can really take note from this.
@mickeypopa
@mickeypopa 3 года назад
I've seen pretty much all of these in Air Crash Investigation series of documentaries on National Geographic and/or Discovery, and I must say that your version really ads a lot of new information and critical insight into these accidents. By that I mean the fact that you use the final report along with a lot of technical explanations from your own knowledge and experience as a pilot to make for a comprehensive accident analysis, as opposed to just making a dramatic TV show like Air Crash Investigation docs. Don't get me wrong, I like ACI a lot. But I like yours as well and I'm going to watch all of them because they're really interesting to me as someone who still has hope of becoming a commercial pilot some day in the near future... maybe. Thanks and good job!
@PetThePeeves
@PetThePeeves Год назад
I’ve watched either a Mayday or Air Disasters on this one and it’s unsettling but I have to say, if I’m going down, I don’t mind the concept of being unconscious beforehand. The flight attendant is what always gets me. Talk about never stop flying. He was a hero.
@speedbird9313
@speedbird9313 Год назад
Never stop? Why did he wait nearly three hours then?🤔
@costasmichalopoulos3488
@costasmichalopoulos3488 3 года назад
Mentour, you did a fantastic job explaining the accident! You showed us how an accident has many layers of failures and how, if not corrected, the failures gain momentum and complexity. Thank you!
@georgemargaritis2392
@georgemargaritis2392 3 года назад
The pilot of the fighter said later that the passenger, a flight attendant, made a signal to him indicating that the plane will crash down. Can't imagine what he was going through, how he must felt. Heartbreaking
@Mandy7D7
@Mandy7D7 2 года назад
The info about that consious person has always gave me chills. What that person must've been thinking trying to save himself and everyone on board for 30 minutes with no response back, heartbreaking.
@speedbird9313
@speedbird9313 2 года назад
"For 30 minutes with no respons back?"🙄🤔
@petergarrone8242
@petergarrone8242 8 месяцев назад
He would have been hypoxic, unable to think straight.
@dimitristheheat
@dimitristheheat 3 года назад
Hey Mentour Pilot. I am from Greece. I remember this flight and this day was a very sad for everyone here. Greeks and Cypriots share same roots and language.(at the Greek side of Cyprus) Most people have family members there. Anyway thanks for the video.
@keithp6689
@keithp6689 2 года назад
As always from this channel, this was a considered, logical, and dispassionate assessment of what transpired to result in the loss of the this aircraft and everybody on board. The presenter speaks from the perspective of being a professional commercial pilot himself, so he knows his subject intimately. The description of this air disaster is so much better, and far more comprehensive, than some I have seen, including one that appeared to load the blame squarely on the engineer without mentioning the role played by the pilot and first officer. This account gave a much clearer picture, explaining the situation from all angles. As with similar occurrences, the reasons for the disaster are multi-factoral, meaning there is usually more than one cause that led to the tragic outcome. This has to be one of the most fascinating channels I have discovered on You Tube.
@wesss9353
@wesss9353 2 года назад
Let me tell you about Louis Rossmann and the right to repair movement... Check out his channel
@allyourcode
@allyourcode 3 года назад
This is the second video I have watched about this accident. Being told form a pilot's point of view gave lots of really important and interesting details. Thank you for your take on this!
@GeneralPadron
@GeneralPadron 3 года назад
As an Engineer, I know that "pressurization" is a primary life support system in modern aerospacecraft. So, to look over this in a preflight check is criminally negligent. Due to the probability of loss of life in the event of failure of that system.
@alje311
@alje311 3 года назад
It's easy especially if the pilot is fatigued. The 737's caution and warning system is pretty archaic and if you mix fatigue and hypoxia in it's a recipe for disaster .
@deeperlayer
@deeperlayer 3 года назад
pilots are stupid, for real i could not believe that this could happen that is not knowing what an obvious problem is and especially they would feel light headed and there are like 4 indicators to this problem
@anteeko
@anteeko 3 года назад
@@alje311 This is no excuse to not do your cockpit checklist.. if you feel tired do it twice.. or do it extra slowly but do every item.
@deeperlayer
@deeperlayer 3 года назад
@@anteeko that's one thing for sure, i do not blame the engineer that did the test at all, am not sure if he got in trouble or not, but whatever anyone did to the plane it's the pilots responsibility to check their plane before flight and inspect exterior and interior of the plane. not checking the list is one thing, but failing to know what a simple emergency is beyond me how the hell they didn't know especially the manual green light is there and it never should be in their thousands of hours flight haven't they saw that all lights should be off on a 737 what the hell!
@alje311
@alje311 3 года назад
@@anteeko so you never ever, EVER made a mistake because you were tired? Fatigue is a leading cause of many accidents and the reason why laws were created so that airlines can't push crews beyond their limits.
@PinkAsAPistol
@PinkAsAPistol 3 года назад
That was a good analysis and thanks for the content warnings, I remember the agony of many people over this flight. Another accident I remember over here that you might fight interesting from a human miscommunication perspective was Aerosvit Flight 241. I have read the report and the level of confusion between the flight crew and ATC is baffling to me after some point. At one instance they were heading to the opposite direction and ATC asked them to confirm they had turned to the correct one. The crew was completely lost, yet they answered yes, while the ATC knew they had strayed but didn't tell them. At the trial, ATC personnel was initially given a 5-year sentence. I was wondering about your take on this. Cheers.
@snappycattimesten
@snappycattimesten 3 года назад
25:35 heartbreaking. How did he get into the locked cockpit? Thank you for the respectful discussion Mentor.
@MentourPilot
@MentourPilot 3 года назад
There are ways. I cannot go into that though.
@jortheo
@jortheo 3 года назад
@@MentourPilot Prodromou was also under training as a pilot.
@AllanFolm
@AllanFolm 3 года назад
He was a crew member, and had the info needed. He just needed ONE SINGLE PIECE of info to rescue the plane - that there was a single switch set wrong on the pressure control panel.
@snappycattimesten
@snappycattimesten 3 года назад
@@MentourPilot understood. Good to confirm the experts have considered these possibilities. Thanks Mentor.
@tuttocrafting
@tuttocrafting 3 года назад
@@MentourPilot glad that there are ways. I was exactly thinking about the locked door and a similar situation. I imagine that the security aspect of the cockpit is NDA.
@andreastzanis4175
@andreastzanis4175 8 месяцев назад
I remember this as if it was yesterday... I was sitting on the top floor balcony of our home in St. Lucas, Euboea, when the Helios plane flew directly above me en route to its doom. I remember the two obviously armed F-16s, one flying arrears and slightly to the portside, one impressively near the crew cabin to the starboard. They all flew no higher than 500m above sea level. I was alarmed and reported this to my father, a retired Air Force pilot. He sounded sad when he told me to expect bad news... they came about one hour later.
@Dr.Gunsmith
@Dr.Gunsmith 2 года назад
I have terrible fear of flying, but after watching you explain why how and what in your videos and then I just think of all the lives lost that make it safer for me to fly that’s when I feel safer. RIP to all the lost lives that have made a difference in the aviation industry.
@Julia-nl3gq
@Julia-nl3gq 2 года назад
I love flying, but I'm also scared of it. I love in when we're in the air, but I'm also relieved when the plane comes to a complete stop. I went through some awful turbulence once, and was surprised at how unpanicked I was....I guess because it was just turbelence, it wasn't like we were crashing. Plus I was foccused on not getting sick, it was dropping so suddenly, over and over. The only other weird experience I remember is coming back from Cuba, we all boarded, then we sat there for ages, finally the pilot came on and said that there was 'red tape' involving the Cuban governement, but, that, also due to government rules, we could not de-plane while they sorted this out, so we all sat there for hours, sweating to death. Then he finally comes back on, and of all things, says the plane is overweight - was that the same issue as the red tape issue?? - and we have to burn off some fuel before we depart... ...and then he goes 'and we have to re-route the plane, as we now need a more direct route to Edmonton, since we have less fuel'. And of course I immediatly imagined the plane running out of fuel, and dropping out of the sky. So we finally burn some fuel off, get to Edmonton (this is in Canada), and then I stayed on the plane cause I live in Saskatchean, not Edmonton, and Edmonton was just the first stop....so no other passengers board in Edmonton, which kinda surprised me, but we sat there for ages anyway. Again. With no explination. Finally the captain comes on and says we have to redistribute the weight of the plane, and a flight attendent actually came down the ailse, making some people move over to different seats on the other side of the plane. I never understood that. Does it really matter where passengers sit, for weight distrubution???? Well, I guess it must, or they wouldn't have done it. It's just that I've flow a fair amount, and never experienced that before.
@tonycook1624
@tonycook1624 3 года назад
This video series is the aviation equivalent of L.T.C. Rolt's book "Red for Danger - the history of British railway disasters" which is actually a history of the incremental improvement of railway safety devices and measures. Like railway accidents each aviation accident builds up a body of safety knowledge and measures.
@danielduarte6086
@danielduarte6086 Год назад
Really like how technical your videos are, without that unnecessary buffer and drama discovery makes on their shows. Binge watching!
@dickfitswell3437
@dickfitswell3437 2 года назад
So brave of the FA trying to level out to reduce impact. I hope the 2 fighter pilots aren't suffering PTSD as that was likely their saddest day flying.
@ddseir1443
@ddseir1443 2 года назад
There is actually a shocking recording of the F16 pilot on YT. But it could have been worse. The fighters were not there just to observe.Those planes were armed and they would have shot the 737 down if it seemed to be crashing towards the densely populated Athens.
@Pavlos_Charalambous
@Pavlos_Charalambous 2 года назад
@@ddseir1443 at the beginning there was fears that the plane was highjacked
@ddseir1443
@ddseir1443 2 года назад
@@Pavlos_Charalambous ελα, Ελληνας ειμαι κι εγω. Το ξερω. Τους εστειλαν κατ αρχας να δουν τι γινεται, και οντως, ενα σεναριο ηταν η πειρατεια. Αλλα εσυ πιστευεις οτι ακομα κι οταν ειδαν οτι δεν ηταν πειρατεια, θα το αφηναν να παει προς Αθηνα αν εδειχνε να ειναι ανεξελεγκτο; Μην περιμενεις να το πουν επισημα, αυτα δε λεγονται. Υπαρχει και θεωρια οτι καταρριφθηκε αλλα δεν εχω δει κατι σοβαρο υπερ.
@Pavlos_Charalambous
@Pavlos_Charalambous 2 года назад
@@ddseir1443 καλά εννοείται αυτό, κατά πάσα πιθανότητα δεν χρειάστηκε γιατί θυμάμαι είχαν βγάλει στην δημοσιότητα βίντεο από της κάμερες των f 16 γιατί υπήρχε η θεωρία ότι αν ήταν το αεροπλάνο ανεξέλεγκτο θα μπορούσαν να το ρίξουν χωρίς πυρομαχικά, μόνο από της αναταράξεις του αέρα... Τι να σου πω, εμείς μάλλον δεν θα μάθουμε ποτέ στα σίγουρα
@Julia-nl3gq
@Julia-nl3gq 2 года назад
I don't know. They're fighter pilots, they've no doubt experienced all kinds of sad or horrible things.
@jm9371
@jm9371 2 года назад
I first heard about this incident on the series MAYDAY years ago. I found that your expert insight on what happened added a lot on what I already knew about it. Great video!
@jkryanspark
@jkryanspark 2 года назад
This story is similar to the crash of the private jet carrying professional golfer Payne Stewart and his entourage. 'Ghost planes' are terrifying. This incident is so disturbing that Petter's two beautiful dogs decided to skip this episode.
@Drgonzosfaves
@Drgonzosfaves Год назад
I had forgotten about that flight. Thanks.
@sidim2802
@sidim2802 Год назад
Heart wrenching, by far the saddest single video on your page Captain
@tuningobd5371
@tuningobd5371 3 года назад
I am wondering why none of the pilots thought of doing something to prevent further issues. One could have put on a mask to still be able to function in the event of pressure loss, or if they thought the takeoff config warning sounded, arrest the climb. They were still in dense enough air. If the takeoff alarm sounded, which can only do that as long as the plane is on the ground, it could have been a short circuit or something like it. That means turning back to land. They had so many clues and chances to fix this and they did nothing at all.
@tomstravels520
@tomstravels520 3 года назад
One theory that went round was the pilots had forgotten the alarm could also be the cabin altitude as they had never heard it go off mid air. Either way they did not identify it as a cabin altitude warning and it didn’t take long climbing at about 2000ft per minute to loose focus and concentration and then you can’t think straight
@MentourPilot
@MentourPilot 3 года назад
This could have been stopped in many different ways but it wasn’t. It demonstrates how hard it is to get out of a train of thought once you have started it. This is where CRM, knowledge and application of procedures is so important
@tuningobd5371
@tuningobd5371 3 года назад
@@tomstravels520 that's true. They forgot themselves. It's Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. They chose Communicate, Not navigate, Not aviate.
@tuningobd5371
@tuningobd5371 3 года назад
@@MentourPilot Yes, it is hard to get out of confirmation bias. Do you think the lack synergy between the pilots also played a role in the poor performance of the crew?
@SF-li9kh
@SF-li9kh 3 года назад
Mentour mentions confirmation bias in most these cases. It's the problem with highly experienced pilots. You always assume there's a technical glitch. You can't blame them. They'd have seen a fair amount of technical glitches in their career. So they assume the same (although they shouldn't). But in other cases like the. AirFrance with frozen pilot tubes, the pilots trusted the instruments, followed procedures and died only because of that. Aviation is strange
@danielabrahams4061
@danielabrahams4061 2 года назад
This story has really got me gripped. It's a tragedy that a man with flight experience and love of planes manged to get to the controls but without enough time. Some reports say he managed to steer the plane clear of Athens and avoid further loss of life. It would be great to have some further information on this, in any case he deserves homage for his efforts.
@keremerbas8735
@keremerbas8735 2 года назад
If he had enough power to steer he should be able to land top
@namor3607
@namor3607 2 года назад
@@keremerbas8735 While it's very possible to steer a passenger jet in a glide, landing it is not going to be possible for an amateur pilot. Could he have turned the plane away from Athens as the legend goes? Yes. Could he have landed it? Basically impossible given the situation and his experience level. He would have crashed into the airport or surrounding area.
@TheGuindo
@TheGuindo 2 года назад
@@keremerbas8735 what? it wasn't an issue of power, it was an issue of skill - he wasn't skilled enough to be able to land that type of plane, especially on battery power with no engines. he knew enough to be able to steer the glide away from a populated area, but not nearly enough to be able to land it safely.
@NoelPitoy
@NoelPitoy 3 года назад
Thank you for this stream. Explaining this must have not been easy especially nearing the end. Please stay healthy and safe 🙏
@charliekezza
@charliekezza 3 года назад
How horrific to be that last person. Seeing people scared and confused Watching everyone pass out and die also the few you'd try to save too, knowing your next if you dont get more oxygen, finally getting into the cockpit only to realise the pilots were dead too, seeing the fighter pilots knowing they r there to potentially shoot you down, and just when they thought the cabin was the quietest it had ever been it only gets quieter as the fuel runs out and having a front row seat as the ground comes up to meet them. Or maybe im thinking way to much into it
@JDM_MSK
@JDM_MSK Месяц назад
amazing how far you channel has come sine this video. I love the content
@MargieM10
@MargieM10 3 года назад
This is so heartbreaking. I'm glad most of them were unconscious 😔
@ascensionvaldes1412
@ascensionvaldes1412 3 года назад
these videos are so engaging, I cannot stop watching them!
@MentourPilot
@MentourPilot 3 года назад
Glad to hear you are enjoying them!
@situbes.972
@situbes.972 3 года назад
There could be another factor in all of this: this system was designed for sudden loat of cabin pressure. Or sudden leak of pressure. This crew might have had a prolong exposure to lower and lower oxygen. So by the time the alarm went off they were already effected from long exposure - that why they thought it was a take off warning. Had they known it was cabin pressure problem they would have put on there masked and lowered the altitude. This was a tragic axcident that shouldn't have happened.
@NicolaW72
@NicolaW72 3 года назад
Indeed.
@Integratedsful
@Integratedsful 2 года назад
I mean it seems so of they missed so many checks but still on the ground or just takeof they shouldnt have been affected with it...
@jonathanseyfert8256
@jonathanseyfert8256 2 года назад
The 10,000 foot limit is a conservative altitude based on maintaining critical thinking. For a little reference, in general aviation (think small 4-6 seat planes) pilots are not required to wear oxygen until 12,500 feet. Anything below that no oxygen is needed for any length of time. Between 12,500 and 14,000 feet oxygen only needs to be worn for flight durations over 30 minutes at that altitude. Above 14,000 feet pilots must wear oxygen for any length of time, and above 15,000 all passengers also must have oxygen. (In most general aviation the cabin is not pressurized so flights at these altitudes use oxygen as normal operating procedure) So the warning at 10,000 feet is conservative and should not be interfering with judgement. But as evidenced the pilots were not making the best decisions at any altitude, since they missed setting the switch twice and did not notice the lack of pressure displayed on the instruments, and then assumed the cabin pressure warning was a warning that would never have happened while flying. You are right this is a tragic accident that should never have happened.
@jonathanseyfert8256
@jonathanseyfert8256 2 года назад
In fact, traditionally to reduce stresses on the airplane cabin commercial airliners where only pressurized to an effective altitude of 7000-8000 feet. This would include the cockpit as it’s not separate pressure wise from the rest of the aircraft. It’s only with modern materials that aircraft are beginning to be pressurized to normal pressure, or close to it, to increase comfort by reducing the pressure changes. Increase comfort by reducing or eliminating the need to equalize ear pressures, which if not done causes ear discomfort.
@hubriswonk
@hubriswonk 2 года назад
@@jonathanseyfert8256 I am a skydiver and I have been to 20k without oxygen without any mental issues. A few people however were even higher than 20k!
@ultrasbrescia
@ultrasbrescia 2 года назад
You are a star!! I love EVERY SINGLE video! I've been quarantining in BKK and HK for the last 3 weeks, and I have devoured all your videos! I flew for the first time in 1978 on a DC-10, and for many years I have been a fan of aviation. Now, in my fifties, I travel a LOT (since 1995, many times a month) and I am in love with all you narrative! Thank you!!! You say to ask you for questions and or more topics, so here I go! 1) June 27th, 1980, Itavia Flight 870. Everybody in Italy now knows it was hot down by a French Fighter who was trying to shoot down Ghedaffi's plane flying from Tripoli to (I forgot)... Classic case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time... It has been hidden for decades and it basically cost the private company Itavia to go broke... It would have been a crazy diplomatic incident and so it was kept a secret. The story is intriguing (other that so many civilians have lost their lives in a horrendous stall (plane shot, but no explosion) and subsequent free fall from 30'000 ft, straight into the sea...) and it includes findings of a fighter jet in the Mountains of Calabria nearby and all the politics involved at the time... Berlin wall was still up! Cold war was still on... You could make it a wonderful (although terribly dramatic!) story. The Government, for the reasons highlighted above, continued for YEARS to state it was a technical failure... 2) Air France 447, First office Bonin that pulled back and... Nobody in the cockpit found out until to late... So many other similar stories in your feed... Another dramatic one, unfortunately, where you could possibly share your point of view! How can this be avoided in the future? 3) Malaysian airlines flight 370... So many things have been said... Could you give a quick update of what you think really happened? New evidence would suggest that the plane had been circling around KL for a while (making demands? Talking to Malaysian authorities? What?) before heading south into the oblivion... TAK!!! You are the best! :-)
@briancrawford69
@briancrawford69 3 года назад
Damn the engineer even asked him to check the switch position. I wonder if they were already passed out before he ever checked it
@arfyness
@arfyness 3 года назад
@Ionian I had the same thought. Why are flight crew masks a manual operation? No one needs them more critically, and it's for everyone's safety. Such a textbook case of a Swiss cheese failure. So many opportunities for one little thing to have saved everyone.
@NicolaW72
@NicolaW72 3 года назад
@@arfyness Indeed. It´s really so. It was unfortunately a classical Swiss cheese failure where all could have been survived if only one point would have went into another direction
@justme-hh4vp
@justme-hh4vp 3 года назад
Yeah, that would be the final tragic irony.
@carbon1255
@carbon1255 3 года назад
They were already too high that their brains wouldn't work.
@jacknguyen5677
@jacknguyen5677 3 года назад
Arrogance is the case!
@jpduriez5063
@jpduriez5063 2 года назад
I'd a pressurisation problem in the past on a maritime patrol aircraft as captain. We were bound to Thulé AFB, and we heard à warning of depressurization that we recognized quickly. We done our ox masks and proceeded to an émergency descent. In fact, one of our outflow valve had frozen due to the very low air température outside, causing à vicious slow depressurization. I remember that we had a senior officer on the jumpseat, no mask for him. I checked him through the descent, he seemed well, but after the recovery at a safe altitude, he said us that he never saw us donning our masks, and excecuting the descent. Example of hypoxia I never was aware of...
@jannachristie5111
@jannachristie5111 2 года назад
I agree with you why you show all the airplane accidents. It is a learning process, not only for pilots but for everybody who uses airplanes as travel mode. Thanks, you make it very clear and even non-pilots can understand what went wrong.
@robinblick9375
@robinblick9375 2 года назад
I never cease to be amazed, as well as horrified, by the elementary errors of pilots who are described as 'highly experienced'.
@pro100vald
@pro100vald 3 года назад
But isn't it obvious, that "do not take off" alarm should sound different from "you're going to choke to death" alarm? Do they really need to reuse sounds on multimillion dollar plane? In my opinion, life critical sound alarm should be unique, in order to prevent any misinterpretations.
@cr-yi7ep
@cr-yi7ep 3 года назад
Exactly what I was going to say :) (p.s. 'choke to death' is probably incorrect - if they'd been choking they might have noticed the problem. More like, gently losing consciousness. Choking is caused by CO2 build-up, not lack of oxygen)
@junrenong8576
@junrenong8576 3 года назад
They should play the sound like "Cabin Altitude, Cabin Altitude, Mask On, Mask On"
@bryan53566
@bryan53566 3 года назад
A large variety of warnings can have a negative effect. Having an alarm, a light blinking, and an annunciator going off at the same time can be very distracting. So, there are different severity classifications of alarms. Take-off config can be a deadly problem (NW255). A pressurization problem would happen well after takeoff when workload is low and it should be an automatic response to don oxygen masks.
@radovanjakubhorak7879
@radovanjakubhorak7879 3 года назад
I was thinking why it's just an annoying noise, why it doesn't say the problem? Like "LOW AIR PRESSURE, LOW AIR PRESSURE" or whatever the problem is.
@thenasadude6878
@thenasadude6878 3 года назад
I suppose the reason for a single sound is that the pilots will know that's the one and only mortal danger alarm. You need to act quick, and being trained on a single alarm is way more efficient IF COUPLED WITH specific procedures for each phase of flight. Death alarm sounds on the ground -> check brakes, flaps and such Death alarm sounds during climb -> level off and figure it out
@LeeAndersonMusic
@LeeAndersonMusic 8 месяцев назад
What I don't understand is how the cabin crew didn't try anything for hours on end until the very last moment where it was too late.
@lizmerrick6883
@lizmerrick6883 3 года назад
When I read about this flight the first time it only said the crew had passed out- so I thought all the passengers were sitting there for two hours waiting to crash! I was relieved that they were spared that horror thought it must have been terrifying. I believe that poor, brave man was really unlucky to have survived to try to save the plane. Was it true that he managed to steer the plane away from Athens, preventing civilian casualties?
@thomasfranz5245
@thomasfranz5245 3 года назад
Change the "Manual" light to red so flight crew are always aware even if it's ok in certain circumstances.
@michaellidster1389
@michaellidster1389 3 года назад
Not enough. They need more than that. These weak humans
@dynasty0019
@dynasty0019 3 года назад
You can fly the 737 on "MANUAL" pressurization. Anything in red is a no-go item on aircraft.
@benjaminmenken5693
@benjaminmenken5693 3 года назад
@@michaellidster1389 you say that like your some kind of alien, but I agree, that's not enough
@jtrout5
@jtrout5 4 месяца назад
I've now watched all of your aircraft incident videos, and this is the only one that has made me genuinely feel less safe as a traveler. Such a simple thing that killed all these people and it seems the pilot's rhyming the answers to certain checklist items rather than actually checking is a pretty common occurrence we don't hear about because things usually work out okay.
@johnnychang4233
@johnnychang4233 3 года назад
It's sad that one of the Human flaws is the inability to recognize ones own mistakes and those keep compounding into a big ball that roll down the hill 😥
@skyhawk_4526
@skyhawk_4526 3 года назад
It is only flaw when we fail to understand that about ourselves and don't consciously take that into consideration when we troubleshoot.
@johnnychang4233
@johnnychang4233 3 года назад
@@skyhawk_4526 Humans has always a certain air of confidence which sometimes borderline into haughtiness and it's when we start ignoring our errors and underplaying our capacity to commit mistakes.
@michaellidster1389
@michaellidster1389 3 года назад
Thus we need AI to fly planes. They kick human butt at the game of go. You better believe they will be better pilots
@michaellidster1389
@michaellidster1389 3 года назад
Need AI pilots and air traffic control asap
@johnnychang4233
@johnnychang4233 3 года назад
@@michaellidster1389 AI are the creations of Humans beings thus not exempt of the same flaws 😥
@ViktorVik-hj9er
@ViktorVik-hj9er Месяц назад
Great work from this channel ❤the guy deserves every award that exist❤
@WayneM1961
@WayneM1961 3 года назад
Given the experience of the crew to say the least, their performance was poor. RIP all the victims and heartfelt condolences to those who lost loved ones and friends.
@apurvdas2272
@apurvdas2272 20 дней назад
The last moments of the flight attendant trying is one of the saddest things I've ever heard in my life
@dasmaurerle4347
@dasmaurerle4347 3 года назад
Wow, the saddest one so far...😪
@johnfitzpatrick2469
@johnfitzpatrick2469 3 года назад
Such simple oversight leading to such disasters. Sadness has dominated this story of cabin pressure leading to overall hypoxia of souls on board.🕊🌏
@dwightlooi
@dwightlooi 3 года назад
Sad or not, how is skipping or forgetting a check list procedure THREE TIMES in anyway excusable?
@MentourPilot
@MentourPilot 3 года назад
This is not a question of excusable or not, it’s a question of HOW can it happen. None of the pilots wanted this to happen
@GeneralPadron
@GeneralPadron 3 года назад
It isn't. It is criminally negligent. Any judge or jury would come to that conclusion.
@dwightlooi
@dwightlooi 3 года назад
@@MentourPilot Of course they never wanted to pass out and die in a crash. What I meant was that how is it excusable to have a culture, SOP or system where something show stopping can be missed three times in a row because ONE guy was lazy, careless or stupid. Shouldn't a crucial check be duplicated by two or more persons or automated system rather than relying on someone else chancing upon somebody else's work deficiency or correctly solving a puzzle after the fact?
@prestongarvey2961
@prestongarvey2961 3 года назад
@@dwightlooi they were long dead before the crash
@Gencturk92
@Gencturk92 3 года назад
@@prestongarvey2961 but why did they take off in the first place when the pressurization switch was set on manual ?
@itikutok6568
@itikutok6568 2 года назад
I've watched most of your videos, but this has to be the most saddening of all. What a nightmare. Thanks for all your work.
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