Help From a Loving Jehovah's Witness Elder part 1

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This discussion took place between a woman that had been trying to get reinstated into the Jehovah's Witnesses for the last several years, and had become suicidal over the whole matter.
Happily, she has now learned TTATT and is doing much better and is continuing to clean out the Watchtower programming from her mind. I knew her personally many years ago when I was serving as a young elder in the Porterville California area, and she recently reached out to me and said hello and shared her experience with me. Below are excerpts from the introductory comments of the video, which is part 1 of 2 parts.
If anyone has a conversation with JW elders that they want preserved please contact me at JWStruggle@gmail.com.
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The recording was made in January of 2015 a woman who had been desperate to be reinstated back into the JW congregation made a final phone call to one of the three elders that was assigned her case. She explained to her mother (who at that time would have brief conversation with her as she was trying so hard to get back in) that they were treating her roughly and very unlovingly. After trying fruitlessly for years to be accepted back into the fold she had had it. At the last meeting they had with her after she had submitted a letter and had to wait THREE MONTHS in agony, one of the elders named Jim arrogantly said to her, "Why did you waste our time calling us [into the back room] when you're not even ready?"
This crushed the woman and she became suicidal. It finally began to dawn on her that perhaps these men aren't being guided in "Christ's right hand" as the Revelation book and other WT literature says they are. She began to question and research things and it shocked her. She decided though to make one last call to the elders to try and see if they would indeed be loving and fair towards her, and also to show her mother the way they had treated her.
Anyone that is from the Porterville, California area that I formerly served in will likely know about him. Of course it's easy to appoint one of these "goofs in men" (Ephesians 4:7 NWT) but it takes an act of God to get them out of their exalted position.
Where these sorts of scenarios and situations play out on a daily basis. I feel that most of these men are simply products of the Watchtower culture and they are smaller versions of their "theocratic heroes", the men who sit in authority on the Governing Body of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
My friend that went through this difficult time sent me this summation: [Note: edited for brevity)
"I had tried to get reinstated like 5 to 7 months prior to this recording and the Elders yet AGAIN seriously mishandled me... [the former C.O.] who is now an Elder in my Mom's congregation tried to get involved in trying to help my committee work me & with my circumstances & help to get me reinstated finally, but they REFUSED to speak to him...
And that's when I finally threw in the towel & decided to stop trying to get reinstated, because I HONESTLY believed that for 'whatever reason they had', they were NEVER going to let me back in & so I quit trying altogether... That's when I really started searching for answers as regards the overwhelming feeling that I had, that JEHOVAH could NOT be directing these brothers...
My mom talked to Dan & told him I was doing better & wasn't battling suicide like I was before & he told her to tell me to write them a brief letter & that they WANTED TO HELP ME... So I did.. I wrote at least 2 or 3 long emails, all of which went unanswered!! I did not get even ONE reply from ANY OF THE 3 of them!!
I was already angry that they 'seemed' to care & want to help me NOW that I wasn't as suicidal as I was before (at least that's what Dan made my mom believe) yet they didn't give a shit or offer me any help when I WAS SEVERELY suicidal.. BUT, I thought ok 'maybe' which reflects on how terribly they handled me the last time & also the six years prior to that & they wanted to correct matters with me & do the right thing by me... So I wrote them, as per Dan's request [and] was completely ignored by all three!!
So by this point I was so enraged that they would ask me to contact them, only to turn around & ignore my correspondence entirely!! And that's why I finally ended up calling him.
"I did not record it with any intentions but so that my Dear Mother could see firsthand the way they were talking to her was absolutely NOTHING like how they ACTUALLY TALKED TO ME & TREATED ME!! She was absolutely OUTRAGED by how he handled me in this recording [when she listened to it]. But unfortunately her [Watchtower] programming still chalks it up to "they are terribly imperfect men & that has nothing to do with Jehovah" etc., etc. YET, THEY HOLD THE KEY to my freedom, but refuse to turn it. Thankfully now I know TTATT & NOW I don't want to be back in anymore!"
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End of introduction.

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15 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 212

@jewelpembroke6406 9 лет назад

My family has all disowned me except for my children..I am almost depression free now and enjoy a new church I was blown away that there are real Christians out there... What darkness we were in before and I absolutely know God has never abandoned me!!! I'm much closer to him now :)

@c_rhynehardt 9 лет назад

I had to pause the video to post a thought They don't want electronic communication because it can be saved and shared with others. Has nothing to do with emotions!

@dolam 9 лет назад

That's a very good point. They do not want anything documented.

@rougearlequin 9 лет назад

c rhynehardt I Know! They require that you send a letter if you want to get reinstated and will never accept a verbal request, but they will only reply verbally when they think there would be no record of how unfair they can be.

@cosmosgato 9 лет назад

No need to apologize for recording a meeting. Any group arrogant enough to call itself *_The Truth_* and *_God's only channel_* should have no fear of exposure and welcome transparency.

@JWStruggle 9 лет назад

cosmosgato With enormous claims come enormous accountability.

@emptythepain 9 лет назад

My heart is aching for this beautiful, courageous woman. She is literally pouring heart heart out to this "shepherd of the flock", and all he cares about is her first reinstatement letter. Doesn't even want to address the issues of her last email, or her son. I think this is appalling. I have gone through a similar situation, about suicide. I was on suicide watch, and the elders did not know how to handle it. All they said was pray to Jehovah, he will give you the strength. It's a good thing he does, because the elders can't. If they get their direction from Jehovah, it isn't working for them. Doesn't that tell you everything.

@edwardguzman7545 8 лет назад

+emptythepain EXCELLENT COMMENT. GOD BLESS YOU. KEEP STRONG.

@avent5 9 лет назад

I love the word used to describe this Elder, pontificating. So true! I felt sick listening to him. My heart went out to her. I hope she remains on her journey to freedom away from this crazy mind altering cult.

@sgtaaronp 9 лет назад

This is the kind of thing that has to be addressed, they obviously dont want you to ever have any kind of record of anything. i also wonder why he was giggling and she was crying this is UNACCEPTABLE if they were handling this as a job here in the real world he would be fired, but ill bet no one will ever hear this, im sharing this everywhere i can!

@monicarush6368 9 лет назад

The difference between them and Jesus is when you ask Jesus to forgive your sins, they are forgiven, and your sins are cast as far the East is from the West. Forgiven and forgotten. That's why I love him.

@suejoyful5576 9 лет назад

When my brother was a JW and he had less then a year to live. He died of kidney failure. Not one Elder came to visit him. Not any of the congregation. Maybe cuz he was too sick to knock on doors perhaps. That's how Cold blooded they are. I Truly HATE the watchtower. People are sincere ignorant. And follow the watchtower unfortunately. NOT the truth like they claim to be. Story I'm so angry I had to vent. My heart go out to that poor lady.

@fyrecraftedgaming 9 лет назад

ss ss So sorry for your loss

@chazparis4216 9 лет назад

ss ss My Father in law is an ex-elder and he left the post because of age and health issues. They loyally listen to the meetings on the phone because of their health issues. He recently had serious surgery and not one person visited him. They, as well, do not knock on doors anymore because of their health issues. My poor mother in law would leave the gate open because the brothers were going to visit her husband. Well, no-one visited him. They are so brainwashed, they dismissed it because the elders are perhaps very busy, and the brothers and sisters might be too busy as well. My inlaws dont know that my wife and I are totally against this disorganization now. They think we are just cold. We will never belong to any church, ever again. Our disrespect for these ignoramuses is with you ss ss.

@fyrecraftedgaming 9 лет назад

Damn. These ass-hats trying to pass themselves off as caring loving shepherds... Didnt Jesus talk in the bible about carrying weak sheep... not kicking them to the side of the road?

@monicarush6368 9 лет назад

My father is a JW, I never became one, but we had bible studies and I went to the Kingdom Hall and conventions a few times when I was a kid. When I became an adult before I found Jesus, I use to believe that maybe this was the truth, it took me a long time to realize that it wasn't. I can understand why it is so hard to leave, because they make you feel like you are leaving God when you leave the organization. It just breaks my heart the control that they have over people.

@ddaniel2082 9 лет назад

My heart literally broke into a million pieces listening to this. Two young lives are at stake here. Now. What courage you had to team with JWStruggle to expose this recording. My hope is for you and your family to continue to heal and for others like you to speak up and continue to expose these recordings. Now...this is a business. WT most likely has lawyers that are advising that there be no written correspondence by the body of elders to create negative evidence against WT. But that the congregation/disfellowshipped ones should create as much written correspondence as evidence/defense for WT, as possible. Elder D spent TEN minutes conducting a lesson on "proper" correspondence asking for VERBAL responses please, and also when writing to group of men, please, shorter is better. Ten minutes is a mini-indoctrination session. I listened VERY carefully to this woman and the responses elder D gave her. He was responding within the law. He ALWAYS circled back (much like police officers are trained to do) to the subject at hand for him and his CORPORATION. He HEARD the woman stating her personal feelings, but did not comment on them whatsoever, within the laws of WT. The ONLY subject at hand for him with her, (after the correspondence lesson) was re-instatement. If he had, and you could tell that he was struggling for the words, wanting to be a human, but remembering his advisors words, if he had acknowledged her feelings/actions then he could be accused of practicing Pseudo Psychology. That is a person practicing Psychology without a license. In business, when an employee is sick, in general, are they are generating MONEY for the company? Would acknowledging anything she was pouring her heart out about be helpful to the plan (GREED, MONEY) and business model? When following the law in a Corp. there IS NO compassion. Is this a Corp. posing as a TAX FREE RELIGION? With the most recent lawsuits, are WT lawyers most likely working on EVERY aspect of business, including how the elders respond, making sure it is within the law? Kids...adults...consider becoming a real teacher with credentials. Not one that poses as one and gives silly correspondence lessons for ten minutes! Consider learning law to equip oneself with the knowledge it takes to identify such fallacies. Oh...and one other thing. Take the advice of JWFT and GET AS FAR AWAY FROM THESE PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE.

@kevinchamberlain7928 9 лет назад

D Daniel Well observed, D. I feel such sick dread hearing this pain. It reminds me of 15 years of severe bullying I suffered in the Watchtower because I told the police about a child abuser in the congregation! What a rotten religion!

@ddaniel2082 9 лет назад

I feel such agony for this young woman. But I also am very PROUD of the way she asserted herself and left him speechless at times! I agonize every day knowing my loved ones are in this trap. And I feel too, for the ones I do not know. How backwards the org. was in the situation you spoke of. But, in my findings, it is looking more and more like an org. was set up SPECIFICALLY for child abuse, from the very beginning. That in mind, the experience you spoke of, makes perfect sense, although undeniably WRONG and hurtful. Thankfully, we don't have to suffer from bullying and we have freedom to run, and not look back. I was affected by shunning by other cult-religions all of my life and then, 18 months ago I become shunned yet again, by a third "religion" -by a group of 8 who opted for re-instatement and baptism in the org. Every day is a new day...

@kevinchamberlain7928 9 лет назад

D Daniel God only ever used ONE shepherd, Psalm 80 1 Hear us, Shepherd of Israel, you who lead Joseph like a flock. His Son is that very shepherd and look what he says of us: Matthew 9:36 When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. Who on earth dares to appoint themselves as a shepherd over others when the bible is clear we are currently shepherdless? WTBTS is rotten through and through but some people have low standards and don't care about this fact. Just beware they don't pull you in!!!

@ddaniel2082 9 лет назад

Agreed on all points. No chance I will join. I have 18 months of RU-vid research behind me! And they shunned me over night and do not return correspondence. So...ya, that's not going to happen!

@kevinchamberlain7928 9 лет назад

D Daniel Religion is far more than just the bible to most. It is a chance of marriage, a chance of friendships, a chance of a lifestyle and even a chance to gain prominence and power! Scriptural truth seekers may find themselves somewhat alone in their search for answers and this is where religion ensnares people! My advice to you would be, view ALL religions through the advice in Matthew 7:15-20 and never carry guilt around - it will sink you like an anvil! :)

@auntfancy6915 9 лет назад

Wow! My heart was breaking listening to her conversation. I am glad this went public because the world needs to know about this destructive evil cult. I hope she is healing along with her son. It is a shame this did not wake up her mother but hopefully one day something will. The amount of suicide in the cult is very high because of their hateful policies. I hope this will help others who are depressed to get help and walk away from their control.

@reasoningwitchpower 9 лет назад

This is a classic case of "The 'FRIENDS' always calling while I'm trying to watch the golf tournament".. "Hello"!!"ugh,ugh,sister!,ughh"..and instantly he's thinking he should have never picked up the phone. You could hear it in his voice ,He never even read the letter, meanwhile this woman's life depends on this phone call and all he can think of is,, "this woman is ruining my life" and the more she cries, the more he despises her.. Do you think when he gets off the phone he will simply have nothing to say?? or do you think there'll be a long winded conversation of him venting for the next 2 hours to his wife about how difficult his job is, because of these... People.. I know,, my father is one of these smug pieces of shit, good for nothing but criticizing and channel surfing..the elder arrangement is one of the greatest mishaps this organization ever created ,THERE TAKING LIVES

@bearwoody 9 лет назад

My heart goes out to this woman and her son, and I'm so glad that she is doing much better without, rather than with, this cult. However, I'm not at all surprised. When I was in graduate school, one research paper that was considered was a study comparing the outcomes of different types of therapy. Different types of therapy were examined, including "pastoral counseling." One not too shocking result: the individuals who received only "pastoral counseling" had worse outcomes than those who received no counseling at all. JDub elders receive no training, and they hurt rather than help (in so many cases). This took me back to my own committee meeting. One of the elders (RS) told me, "I'd like to take you out to the parking lot, and beat you up." One of the other elders (AM) pulled out a list of no less than 30 names (probably more), read them all, and asked me if I knew if any of them had engaged in any improper sexual activity. I guess at that moment I learned of everyone in the circuit who was suspected of being gay! Although I should have probably asked for a copy of the list so I that I could 'study' it to see if my memory could be jogged, I was thrown when he then told me that if I did not co-operate they "would have to go after [my] mother," who was one of the remnant who had served faithfully for over 30 years at that point. Yes, a threat of violence, real emotional blackmail, and a witch-hunt, all wrapped up in one neat little judicial hearing! It's been 28 years since I left, and I never could have dreamed that there would ever be a time when such wonderful support would be available to those looking to leave this evil, mind controlling group.

@JWStruggle 9 лет назад

bearwoody Thanks Bearwoody. Sometimes you think you've heard every story in the book and then a new one comes along...

@bearwoody 9 лет назад

JWStruggle Thanks Eric. There's lots more. But too much for a simple posting here. Too bad youtube didn't exist back then, because a recording of that meeting would break all records on ex-JW websites. Former MS here. Thank God I never made it to elder. It sounds like an horrific job. Glad you're recovering so well. BTW, the third elder on the committee never said a word. He sat, most of the time, with his head down. My gut told me that he was ashamed of the way the other two elders were acting, although he was possibly just embarrassed by the whole thing. It turns out that his son is still in the org, married, and living a double life: one straight, one gay. At last that's what I've heard. Before she died, my mother gave my name and address to an elder here in Chicago. I received a couple of visits from them over the years, but now not for 5 years. I fully expect to hear from them again soon, because of the new "Return to our insane cult" brochure and outreach. How about a video talking about different ways to handle this? I'm certain that a lot of your viewers will be facing this soon.

@MarionKelsey 9 лет назад

bearwoody

@jewelpembroke6406 9 лет назад

My heart hurts to here this poor girl!!! I'm disfellowshiped I hate to say that because I don't believe in disfellowshiping anymore its disgusting!!! I have been dfed before and came back thinking it was the true religion... It wasn't until 2 yrs ago I realized how pathetic it is to be policed by men that could care less about the very depressed. I'm so greatful that I have always been able to know there's a huge difference between these power hungry men and the Love of God!!!

@terryannrose4582 9 лет назад

My heart goes out to this young lady. I have faded out after wasting over 60 years of my life in that organization. I could write a book with all the experiences I encountered. I have expeienced the wrath and cruelty of these elders also. I am still dealing with the pain and anger of this cult. I appreciate you Eric and all those who work so hard to expose this dangerous cult for what is truly is; a large network marketing business and publishing corporation disguised as a religion.

@bearwoody 9 лет назад

terryann rose And don't forget real estate holding company. It's called the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society for a reason. They're only interested in the Watchtower Bible, and in obtaining as many Tracts of Land as they can!

@hjbrown5572 9 лет назад

This is heart rending. My take on this is that he knows exactly what he's doing. With people in this position, elders only want to hear that they 'are feeling better, emotionally stronger and determined to return to the KH.' Only then can they be of use to the congregation. They can't, in all honesty, send someone emotionally volatile out door knocking in case they say something, or behave, in a way they shouldn't. This young woman is clearly not ready to do that - so she is of no use to them. If she had said what they wanted to hear, he would have responded with the love and support they pretend they feel and she so desperately craves, to which she is entitled, let us not forget. It is only with the benefit of past experience that I know (sadly) that she would never, never, have received the help she needed from this quarter. I sincerely hope that now she has discovered this awful truth, she has found what she deserves, elsewhere. My love goes out to her and others they have treated in this despicable way. Please pass on a message of love to her and let her know there are many of us out there who have had similar experiences - that we have survived and are leading better lives for not being part of this cult any longer. I hear, I listen and I understand - love and light to you sweet person, life beyond the cult just gets better and better! Hj.

@crowsandravens8998 9 лет назад

What kind of loving shepherding is this by the Church leaders ??? I am speechless and my heart breaks for this woman! They have known her all their lives too?? Where is the love and compassion?? I'm speechless !!

@barbaratucker6489 9 лет назад

Heart wrenching! This was an example of how so- called True Religion's Shepherds treat those in need among the flock - Its almost as if the devil himself saw her being squashed and rejoiced, promoting indifference with those Elders. I'm convinced the devil promotes this psychology of abuse against its most vulnerable and loving members. Jesus said, "cry with those who cry." I don't get the apathy. Love to you Kari and Gage. Hang in there. Thank you Eric for sharing this. Your all very courageous! What I did is draw close to God and His Son, and they helped me. Not men, even though I know there are good Shepherds out there. Kari, don't cry sweet girl, please put your chin up, and walk in the light and love of God's words, and His long arm of protection and care.

@jonnataylor4531 9 лет назад

This is breaking my heart listening to her it's so sad.

@exposingthewolves8711 9 лет назад

This is totally traumatising to listen to. This elder is sooooo COLD !! There is no care or love here for this poor woman and her son. This organisation harms people and is not from God. How I wish I could be there for this woman and her son. Her love and attachment to these cruel people is apparent and their cold, harsh control and emotional manipulation and psychological TORTURE is clear for us all to see. Thank you for uploading this and please convey my admiration to this strong woman for her courage and bravery in exposing her love and vulnerability and their cruelty .

@slimboaries 9 лет назад

I am so sick of the callousness of the fricking organization, I grew up with it too and left at 16 and was very wounded and messed up. I still have not recovered and that was long ago. They have no love.

@groovy8015 9 лет назад

I am actually sitting here in tears listening to this poor woman! I really hope it works out for her.

@JWStruggle 9 лет назад

+groovy Kari is doing A LOT better, I just talked to her recently!

@groovy8015 9 лет назад

+JWStruggle That's great! Has she been reinstated back into that organization? I hope not!

@LindyFeray 8 лет назад

That is so good. I was her and I felt her pain immensely. So glad she is doing better. I am too, I'm on fire!!

@Jennafur70 9 лет назад

Infuriating! I'm so mad! This just brings back memories for me when me and my dad was done wrong and because of the stress of it all I lost partial eyesight in my right eye. This poor woman. These men would be blood guilty if she had actually killed herself. I feel the angst in her voice and I cried with her. I hope her son has left this cult too.

@minermike61 9 лет назад

Listen to the monotone of his voice. That tells it all.

@LindyFeray 8 лет назад

No emotion whatsoever. Talking like a robot. He needs to be deprogrammed

@MrDoctorDJ 9 лет назад

This is heartbreaking. The Elder seems cold and heartless to this woman who is in an emotional stressful situation. Can't handle people who are like this Elder and his hooligans.

@danielobrien6697 9 лет назад

Eric, great job on posting this! I'm sorry this woman has had to go through such duplicitous behavior dividing her family and causing her such distress. I can say from my own experience that this is not at all unusual. In fact, it is very common.

@bobbypaluga4346 9 лет назад

Eric, that lead-in is perfect, simply Art, you paint with words as Monet and Renoir used oils.

@jewelpembroke6406 9 лет назад

I have had a friend commit suicide and I'm sure if she was not a JW she would be alive still..Also my boyfriend was suicidal when he was disfellowshiped and I was not..I let the Elders know they were in no way imitating Jesus and had no right to discipline a person so harshly esp when he came to you brothers...I informed them I would not be abandoning my boyfriend as they had done..I was served judical papers and told they will decide on my outcome .I stated please do and goodbye!!

@gg4gb1914 9 лет назад

Jewel Pembroke being df'd is a badge of honor But some fight back and serve the elders with legal papers as well. They do not know how to handle it. It is so sad. So many good people. The book Captives of a concept is a good help. Ricky G has excerpts of it. look it up. Wish you the Best.

@edwardguzman7545 8 лет назад

+Jewel Pembroke I WAS DFSPH BUT NOT FOR ADULTRY. MY WIFE HAS BEEN SHUNNING ME. SHE THREW ME OUT OF THE BEDROOM AND OUT OF THE HOUSE. I WOULD USE MY EXPERIANCE TO HELP STRENGTHEN AND GUIDE OTHERS. I AM PLANNING TO PACK UP AND LEAVE AT THE RIGHT MOMENT AND LEAVE HER EVERYTHING. I'M LEAVING WITH HIGH SELF ESTEME, MY DIGNITY AND MY SANITY. MY WIFE IS PHYCOLOGICLY AND SPIRITUALY ONE FLESH WITH THE WTS.

@gg4gb1914 8 лет назад

Ouch Edward Ouch I hope your OK man. If you need to vent bro I'm here

@edwardguzman7545 8 лет назад

I'VE BEEN TO HELL AND BACK. I WAS FALLING TO PIECES . I WENT TO GET PROFESSIONAL HELP. I FOCUSED ON MY DAUGHTER. I DIDN'T WANT HER TO SUFFER. THREW PRAYERS AND SUPPLICATIONS THE LORD GAVE ME COURAGE STRENGTH AND WISDOM. I STRIVE TO HAVE NERVES OF STEEL AN IRON WILL BALANCED WITH A HEART OF GOLD. THANK YOU MY FRIEND

@jewelpembroke6406 8 лет назад

Wow!! Edward Guzman its unreal my family is very abusive to myself as well its heartbreaking its almost been 3 yrs out now and I have great support team of friends but it really effects and scars you when it's your childhood friends and family! Your bold letters tell me your really in alot of pain if you want I'll send you my email and we can talk more!

@donhenhawke3385 9 лет назад

So heartbreaking. Reminds me of the parable when Jesus spoke about the Shepard who leaves the 99 and goes out looking for the lost one. By their love for one another you will recognize them. Here's a few lines of one of my favorite songs.. For all Shepard's ... I wanna know what love is.... I want you to show me, I wanna feel what loves is......foreigner..

@katb945 9 лет назад

Well I am sure if it was the elders daughter or son, or relative would have been treated differently, no concern for the son, he avoided that completely unless something comes up in part 2. When someone has a mental illness they can miss meetings for months on end then come back and be full on seen this happen a before, its so very hard to get a balance, this poor women showed so much courage, after pouring her heart out to ones she trusted only to treated like she was in some court room with strangers, actually strangers would have more sympathy for her than this elder she has known all her life, cold, cruel and not Christian, how can they call themselves Christians. Is it any wonder so many have taken their lives, there is no mercy, no love nothing. What goes round comes round elders.

@MrUNIVERSALSPORTS 9 лет назад

Kinda reminds me of the "elders" in my old congregations . I am glad to be free of this cult even though I'm disfellowshipped . It's not too late you ! Can still make a life for yourselfs !

@fyrecraftedgaming 9 лет назад

MrUNIVERSALSPORTS DF, DA, Faded... No wrong way to get out of this cult. Out is out. Glad you are no longer bOrg

@MrUNIVERSALSPORTS 9 лет назад

You know your right ! epicliciousness

@apost8ofoz378 9 лет назад

This is a great example to show that these "elders" are not trained professionals in dealing with mental health issues. The fact she had to ask several times was he still there is totally disconcerting to a distraught person.Elder schmelder, this man is unfit to provide any support to this dear woman.

@jwescape5876 9 лет назад

I love the commentary at the beginning, spot on!

@tobytaggert3962 9 лет назад

ok i JUST realized that i have just listened to just part 1. but i REALLY hope it gets better !

@truthseeker-jwnightmares4351 8 лет назад

This is really about the fact that Disfellowshiped individuals really must sit in the back for at least a year. (No scriptural basis.) But it does put the great fear of being disfellowshiped into the congregation, and that is the real point.The real purpose is to keep the congregation in fear and from questioning the Org at the threat of losing your family.

@fxsteen 9 лет назад

You don't need these mens approval.. No man can come between Jehovah , Jesus and you my dear sister. Jehovah is with you and Loves you very much!!!! You have Him and no one can take that peace away from you!!! And we all Love you very much!!!

@spiker700 9 лет назад

This guy shouldn't be allowed to lead ants out of a bag, much less shepherd a congregation. Typical JW elder. I worked with guys who were this absolutely miserable at being shepherds. The WT puts people like this in front of the congregation as examples. This makes me absolutely disgusted that I was one time part of that machinery. Heartless.

@imgonnawinitall27 9 лет назад

Crying to him seems pointless. He is just looking for an escape. He is completely helpless. Useless is more like it. These men are not prepared to handle the emotional consequences that they casually dole out. The fallout is more then they can understand or empathize with and worse, they've been told this is a POSITIVE. I'm so disgusted.

@1959TREEMAN 9 лет назад

I have 2 bothers that are elders and they have become as cold blooded as this elder,unbelievable.

@earthenly 9 лет назад

That is what you call "kicking someone when that someone is down", to finish them off so to speak, and enjoying the power of authority in delivering each discreetly sadistic suggestive fatal self-blow to the struggling suicidal will of the devastated sufferer. Being that the Watchtower seems all about money, this girl would serve no value as a strong slave who would help accelerate kingdom (financial) growth/power but would be a burden to that growth in that she has fallen by the side of the road due to a too heavy load strapped to her back by the over zealous heavy-hand of the whip used to encourage selflessness. What they seem to be looking for from this person is that she show no signs of being ill, up and ready to slave for the slave-driver, and a willingness to forego the needed and hoped for fruits of love, forgiveness, and compassion, etc., if that hope and need interferes with the focus of other slaves (the cash flow). I hope that makes sense. Harsh? Yes! But hey! I'm only an imperfect human.

@Ellafantt 9 лет назад

I really feel for people that are suicidal. I just wish they could see that the reason why is exactly what they need to be running from. I've seen this in my own family (a niece of mine has attempted suicide many times and also been DF'd & reinstated at least 3 times). To tell my sister and my bro-in-law... heck, even my niece - that the reason she is so miserable is due to WT brainwashing would be a moot point. The answer is always, "You're not spiritual enough" or some other malarkey. Great video. :D

@anissueofursincerity 9 лет назад

This reminds me, that I had attempted to communicate in writing to these guys when communicating orally was unsuccessful. Dan seems to distrust written communication as though she is being deceptive. Conversations with elders, when they are acting as elders toward us, are pointless and exasperating. It never accomplishes anything. They are only looking to nail you on something, fishing for some negative motive to impute to you.

@tguitar200 7 лет назад

When I turned 18, I was out. No Df, no disassociating, just gone. People need to wake up and realize thier love is unbelievably conditional. Don't waste the time to find acceptance. I had no friends outside the congregation, but guess what? I made new ones. My mother got out in the last 5 years. After 30 years, she has no one. A sister showed up at my door several years back and said "oh the angels directed me here". She was angered when I said "I think they gave you wrong directions", lol. No one's been back.

@dolam 9 лет назад

Thank you very much Eric for posting this video! I know it takes a lot of time and effort on your part and all of us in the XJW community thank you very much for your hard work. Clearly, the elder is emotionally detached. Normal healthy people do not react that way when someone is pouring their heart out to them. Also, the level of distress that the sister is going through comes across loud and clear. She may have emotional issues, but the JW believe system has exacerbated them exponentially. As a side point, how old is her son at this time and was he baptized?

@vickirichards2423 9 лет назад

I was a auxiarlly pioneer for over 5 years, my ex was a ministral servant. I haven't been to the hall for over 2 years. I used to have 10 -15 people over my house for gatherings all the time. These people see me now and don't speak, they don't say nothing I am not disfellowshipped or nothing. What a fake group of people. Never got a call from any elders either, they care about you. All they want is your field service report and your donation. But they would call me for my time if it was late and can you do a part on the school. Fake, Fake Fake people

@JOESMITH-cc3yu 9 лет назад

His incredible ability to handle her situation speaks for itself doesn't it ! Highly trained in Love and Compassion ! Hedging all the way in order to tow the party line - He should not even be attempting to assist anyone so deeply distressed.

@mothert82 9 лет назад

Wow, just wow. The elder does not seem to be fully engaged in the conversation. He has one foot out the door. I can feel his eyes rolling in his sockets. The fact that he rambles on and on in the first part about verbal communication vs written is evident of this fact. There is a point somewhere in the middle where he laughs at something she is saying and that disgusted me. She is in tears pouring out her heart and he responds with a laugh and dismisses what she says. He is ill-equipped for what he is doing. I feel for this woman. She will never get the love and assistance she needs with the JWs.

@anissueofursincerity 9 лет назад

Recording the elder hearing are a must! Recording phone conversations can be a legal issue depending on local laws. Some states allow it if one of the parties know and consent; some states require all parties in the conversation to know and consent.

@fairwhether1 9 лет назад

This woman is obviously is great pain and distress and all this elder can do is critique her letter and tell her she did it all wrong. Really helpful. Very caring. Ugh.

@freedomwithgrace1148 9 лет назад

oh my this is just awful!! She's in so much pain it brought me to tears. I've been on the receiving end of that type of conversation. Just pathetic, I hope she feels better with each passing day.

@monicarush6368 9 лет назад

This upsets me, I fill bad for her. This organization makes people fill like they are "God" and they need to come back to Jehovah. They are not Jehovah, they are just men and they do not have the truth, the truth is in God's word. I am glad she is out. Jesus loves you and has unconditional love for all of us and his arms are open wide, all you need to do is seek after him.

@johnfreeman8445 9 лет назад

The theme of the 2015 regional assemblies is follow jesus how would jesus have responded to this cry for help and compasion .a lot different i would say

@jeneb52 6 лет назад

There seems to a big disconnect as you can tell by his reaction to her begging for help. I feel her pain, and hope she gets a doctors help, along with a group to sort out what she is feeling. And I'm also glad she recorded this and she may recover from the things that are going on by being out of this cult! May she lean on Jesus when she gets down, I know he has helped me. And Eric I have been out for 12 yrs and no elder has bothered to check on me. Even my own relatives that are witnesses, so I get more concern from my new neighbors than I ever got in the "hall". Which is set to be sold soon!

@kevinchamberlain7928 9 лет назад

The typical elder is a complete coward and does not care in the slightest about the genuine pain in this poor lady's voice. And he and his fellow religious leaders caused it in the first place! Even criminals are entitled to know their sentence but not ladies in utter despair? His power tripping judgemental attitude sickens me to vomiting. Rotten religion, producing rotten fruit. Truly, I hope this sincere lady gets the fuck out and stays the fuck out - it's her only chance of survival.

@vjex867 9 лет назад

They, the elders, are appointed by Holy Spirit, anyway that's how the weirdos were explained away. In reality, almost all males were given titles and the rest of us were to view them as something special. They were/are not. The guy is a cold fish, just jerking her around emotionally. Fully aware of the lie told to her and another lie told to the mother. Snake. He hates her & probably always hated her.

@WhathehadasSole 9 лет назад

Boy this was a painful recording to listen to. Found myself angry that they didn't let her back in. This ass wipe of a elder was trying to act like he's a psychiatrist. Him and those elders wanted her to write a letter but when she wrote one....they ignore it. WTF? You would think with how hard it is to convert people to be JW, that they would TRY to keep what they got and be more open to accepting to those who were d'fed and wanted to come back

@bobbypaluga4346 9 лет назад

I can't go further than 14:27, he is crushing this girl. My first understanding of the pain inflicted upon df'ed JWs was Eric's recording of Sam's judicial hearing (rehearing). That kept me up for three days, I would tear up any time I thought about the way they punished a terrific person. This is simply an Old Testament, more specifically Leviticus cult, Christ-like love has nothing to do with their leaders.

@jakedavid927 9 лет назад

Sounds like my Elders at Creep Side Congregation, if you don't turn atheist after suffering in this Hall, you really have a strong relationship with Jehovah God! This poor sister reminds me of a dear brother who killed himself, before he did old King-Pin Elder at Creep Side Congregation did his best to pull his name through the mud!

@simplifiedlife8607 Год назад

I had the elder who was the lead on my committee tell me that Jesus may have executed me if He was on here on earth. This was after 2 years of attending every meeting and doing what I was told to do in order to get reinstated. His statement was in response to me calmly saying that I didn't think they wanted me back. They finally let me back in after 3 years. I tried to do it for a year after my reinstatement, but finally decided that the love Jesus said was the identifying mark of true Christians does not exist to the degree it should among Jehovah's Witnesses so I left 2 months ago. This Pharisaical religion is absolutely horrendous. The way this sister was treated was awful.

@judasjah7390 9 лет назад

These no-training elders are clueless. At least the WT could have an educated councelor available. But, that would mean college education. Can't have that.

@bellehaupi6888 9 лет назад

This elder's attitude is so wrong. It's obvious he didn't even want to take her call. It doesn't even seem like he read her last email. She's reaching out to this man for some understanding or a kind word...and nothing! I'm familiar with these spiritual midgets who love to called elder - which is why I disassociated myself. Shame, shame, shame on him and the rest of his kind!

@JWStruggle 9 лет назад

Belle Haup Spiritual midgets... yep.

@tubian323 9 лет назад

Belle Haup Yeah this woman is crying expressing emotional turmoil and the elder just drones on and on about procedure. But then what else can you expect? The secret elder instructional video said that elders shouldn't let emotion factor into their decisions.

@MrsLee-be1qf 9 лет назад

JWStruggle Please email me Anytime I would love to share my testimony with you sistersofprayerministry@gmail.com

@moemorales4317 9 лет назад

good set up i hope you accomplished what you are looking for under Gods eyes.Great performance..

@fyrecraftedgaming 9 лет назад

How many times did he call her 'emotional'? I see a pattern in these (esp w women) where the elder says you are being emotional, or this is an emotional subject and acts like it isnt a real issue. Like a kid sticking his fingers in his ears and screaming lalalalala I cant hear you... Any of you who saw the JWInternational vid abt the call to HQ abt the shunning suicides prob know what Im talking abt. The elder was like 'oh its an emotional subjct therefore not worth getting into' Pisses me the hell off! Like I said in my DA letter- If love is the sign of god's true organisation, then it should not be a rarity in it.

@zendean5207 9 лет назад

Too painful to listen to. I made it all of 3 minutes into the call. I just cant listen to it. Mixture of rage and sadness. I just cant.

@JWStruggle 9 лет назад

Shawn Dean It gets better though... [spoiler alert!] In part two she starts to assert herself a lot more and tell him what's what!

@saraisastar8 9 лет назад

I had to pause it . This hurts my heart listening to this.

@saraisastar8 9 лет назад

Her and Her boy needs to get as far away from this mess as far away as possible. you heard, she isolated herself. Not Healthy at all! She is being used a damn slinky!

@dontbeculty2117 9 лет назад

Holy crap what is wrong with this man! I've heard more emotion from robots. He has a chip missing somewhere. Please tell me this young woman is free from these people.

@billywalter434 Год назад

I completely feel for her, the elders didn’t give two shits that I wasn’t around, all they wanted to know was if I believed in the governing body. The elders are just pawns and have no idea what a df person has to deal with

@licmy2 9 лет назад

I sometimes wonder if the elders do not have a unwriten rule among themselves. To weed out some members of their congregations. Ones they think are or going to be pains in their asses. There was a elder in my congregation that I knew was no fan of mine ,and when it came time for my hearing . It looked as if he couldn't wait to be done with me. By that time the feeling was mutual. As a side note : I also wonder how many elders leave after they are made to step down for one reason if another? I knew of 2 that didn't last year after they were brought down to the level of the rank and file witness.

@superdave1263 2 года назад

I’m not sure how it happened, but in the Sparks, Nev. congregation there was an unbelieving husband who was a Sparks cop. He eventually studied, got baptized, and became an elder. There was no way that he qualified according to Bible standards. As an elder he finally got caught swindling a Federal Judge out of a lot of money. Not his first go around, just the final one that brought him down. This cop/JW is corrupt, dishonest, and didn’t qualify as an elder. He went to prison for a while, but when he got out he was up to his same old shenanigans. This was the same time I was leaving this detested organization.

@slimboaries 9 лет назад

I have so many feelings about this! They make me SICK!

@WoWNimblybimbly 9 лет назад

This poor, poor woman with no support. These elders are hired men waiting for the flock to tickle their ears and if they don't then you get ignored or kicked out. These must be people of God right? WWJD? Definitely, not treat this woman with no consideration or compassion. Elders response; Oh no feelings, throw it away, run away! I guess Jesus was just some weakling because he had great compassion and feeling for all people, right elders?

@micheallennox7947 9 лет назад

you know its really sad when all these recordings come out and i don't think I've heard one recording or seen one video when someone shares something that has happened. The elders NEVER stop to say " I'm sorry this happened lets try and fix it" no its always well were just imperfect people so deal with it. there is no responsibility whatsoever... Furthermore this elder is telling this poor women to "keep things short" ummmm ask any mental health professional its very therapeutic and beneficial to write down our feelings when going through rough times, especially for individuals with suicidal thoughts. it's i proven fact.

@spirestrummer1 9 лет назад

How proud the "Elders" must be working for Jehovah and doing his works. As a life long Atheist this phone call just underpins my disgust in all religions. The wording alone e.g. Shepherds, slaves make my blood boil. There is no hope for this world whilst people believe in this crap.

@jakecortezcb750 9 лет назад

Your Son . . . is your Angel !! Very Irresponsible The Elders . . . . God Bless You !!

@tobytaggert3962 9 лет назад

@sophiapierre9682 8 лет назад

I don't think the brother was wrong. Sure, he may not have sounded enthusiastic, but remember too that if someone is disfellowshipped the elders have to respect the scriptures in dealing with a disfellowship person. In addition, he was only telling her how to write her reinstatement letter appropriate. Just take a moment and listen to her. She's genuinely wants to come back, but she kept talking about how she grew up with the elders in her hall, but not about the main point. All the brother was trying to say was when you write the letter just keep it simple and write about the situation, and her heartfelt desire to come back. Now, should she want to express deeper emotions like how she grew up with some of the elders and so on that she could say that verbally. The body of elders are looking for few important key points in a reinstatement letter. Her letter was perhaps too personal. It could have been more about missing friends or the people she grew up with.

@trinikenshin 9 лет назад

I went through something similar....the leader of the judicial committee said that I had a demon lolz! Imagine the "spiritual risks" you're placing a person in who supposedly has a demon by df-ing him!

@fxsteen 9 лет назад

His callous comments and disregard for compassion towards her makes a mockery of truth and true Christianity!!!! Hypocrites!!!! They just had a convention entitled " Imitate Jesus 2015" all 3 days was on how to be Christ-like!!!! they are all hypocrites to the power and spirit of divine love.... !!!! ( Jesus I must get involved , please help me to help those in need of freedom ) Eric , u are a good man, how can I help??? I hate this crap that is going on

@gg4gb1914 9 лет назад

Erick.* * * * * Video Think about MLK and his march to Washington DC. Did it happen in a day? It took years in the making. SAME thing here. The crowd is growing and the backlash is going to be so great. More people need to be encouraged to speak. This video and others will add weight to the fight. This is Spiritual War! And I will not sit on the sidelines. ---------This is NOT an isolated case. It happened in my hometown recently.

@jamieangel3766 7 лет назад

This guy is a TOOL. It should be compulsory for Elders to go through some sort of counseling training at the start of their careers and then have regular top ups. That would be a far better use of Worldwide contributions instead of it going to Abuse lawsuit payouts. It may even stop things going that far in the future. SO there is no apology for ignoring her emails. He could have answered her email to say: 'I will call or visit you about this matter, I prefer not to email about it'. It would have taken him all of hmm... 2 minutes? Then this girl is in obvious emotional pain, crying from minute 1 and he doesn't even address it he just starts going on about how if you write emails you can put too much emotion in it so it could be confusing as to the meaning of the email ??!!! Then when she says: 'so what was confusing about it?' He says: 'it wasn't confusing as such'???!!! HE is the confusing one. I think he couldn't admit that he didn't care about her well-being when she was suicidal (Maybe because suicide is a SIN to Jehovah?) and that he couldn't be bothered to reply to her emails or to drop her a quick call. He is obviously uncomfortable with emotional outbursts he can't deal with it so he ignores it. That is why elders need secular training. I have found this kind of robotic indifference when faced with emotion from my parents who are devout JWs. I even had a friend die and they couldn't understand why I was upset. Being in the JWs and having their minds controlled by the GB going for bi-weekly brainwashing sessions really takes a toll on them. In fact they have their emotions drained from them and they are cautioned not to commit any thought sins and to deaden desires etc that they end up as emotionless Stepford wives. I remember being like that! I think the elder is reacting as they all do when in this situation because the whole set up is wrong.

@victoriousballa236 6 лет назад

Heart breaking.

@TracyLeaBeauty 7 лет назад

They disfellowshipped my son and made him leave his phone outside! He was going to record it and they told him to leave the phone on the counter outside the door😳

@bensmokespipes 7 лет назад

this two part RU-vid audio of a painful conversation is hard to listen too but is just a testament of a lack of any deity governing this powerful cult.

@ryanhalford7748 9 лет назад

Having NO NATURAL AFFECTION oh they really do forfill this big time.but not the LOVE they should be known for.

@morganharmsen5158 9 лет назад

I couldn't listen to this whole phone call; this poor, brave woman is just trying to put her life back together and the elder gives her NO help or empathy! As someone who has struggled (and is struggling) with anxiety and depression, his cold indifference to her suffering makes me feel ill and angry. As a decent HUMAN this makes me feel ill and angry! She and her son have fought their way out of serious mental health issues and are trying to get back into the congregation (which I think is a mistake since these people are poisonous liars and brainwashers, but that's beside the point) and when everything they have been taught to believe tells them they should receive love, compassion and forgiveness from their "shepherd", all they get is cold indifference and cruelty. Being disfellowshipped and shunned RUINS a person's life! They are put into isolation and ridicule and shame, which we all know will only make them feel worse about themselves and their faith. This call exemplifies so much of what is ugly and wrong and, even more ironically, completely in contradiction with the word of the loving and forgiving Jehovah they claim to be following.I am not a religious person. I never have been. But I cannot IMAGINE how hateful, empty, and soulless a person would have to be, religious or not, to treat a fellow human this way.

@christiansparlock-freedom2660 9 лет назад

Everyone needs to record these buffoons

@debmatt4378 7 лет назад

repenting heartfully, means nothing to these men

@capablancauk 8 лет назад

could you please explain " shunning at the Jehovah Witness convention 2015" on youtube. Thanks. I just do not understand. A public answer would be best as phone calls can lead to misunderstandings. The written word is stronger as your faith already knows.

@1319912009 9 лет назад

does anyone know what letter she wrote? what was on it?

@richardhaley6537 9 лет назад

Waiting on pt 2 before I come to any conclusions.

@richardhaley6537 9 лет назад

***** you never know, he may do something and "totally redeem himself."

@fyrecraftedgaming 9 лет назад

Richard Haley Like him saying 'oh Im sorry for being a total douche' ? yeah that still wouldnt do it... >.> hmmm...

@JWStruggle 9 лет назад

Richard Haley Hint about part 2: It doesn't get MORE encouraging...

@bobbypaluga4346 9 лет назад

That is one very cold and uncaring SOB, nothing cracks the man, there is no Christianity here. He certainly doesn't want his act documented,

@robmullin1128 6 лет назад

Sooooooo they didn’t reinstate her because her letter was too long?!?!? You would think they would want to bring her back into the fold not keep afar off from the organisation.However I can also see how they would label this woman an attention seeker,or someone struggling with a personality disorder.

@commadant2266 9 лет назад

this hierarchial Christian stuff was a Rutherford counter reform. Before then, and with the other non-JW Bible Students, the elder is elected and answerable to the congregation. Not all of these American 19th Century Revival groups is bad. The 7th Day Adventists are a good group.

@ragingbull6200 9 лет назад

Extremely difficult to listen to. How can these men call themselves 'shepherds'? Hell no they are not shepherds! Just another reason it IS NOT the one true religion. She's spilling her guts and he's just as cool as a cucumber.

@miriamcleough3545 9 лет назад

They are the most self-serving puffed up arrogant class of people I have ever met

@lairellango 7 лет назад

what in the hell does the length of her email has to do with anything? This so called elder didn't read her email that's why he cant ans her questions. this is what happens when u put ur trust in Man ppl change all the time but God NEVER change. Get it thur ur head JW's God I'd love ❤ and merciful and does not condemn just bcuz u have an illness. what I don't understand is that she keeps saying how much she an her son loves Jehovah but yet they chose to take their own life. and why would u want to be with an organization that doesnt care whether you live or die. Jesus said come as u are heavy laden and broken. oh what a wonderful, joyful, loving merciful living God I serve in the name JESUS… To God be the glory in all His Majesty ❤❤❤

@SonofThunder 9 лет назад

struggling with opiate addiction it sounds like. I know the crackle in the voice. I'll pray she makes it

@tobytaggert3962 9 лет назад

I mostly feel for anyone who is disfellowshipped because i went through it Twice. but i honestly dont see what this elder did in this instance that was so wrong. the girl was mostly hysterical and he was mostly just listening her. i kept WAITING for the part where this elder said or did something that was so wrong and then SUDDENLY the tape ends without there being even a whisper of him being cruel or insensitive as this taped recording had led me to believe ! i mean did the girl actually believe that she was going to get reinstated because she was crying or telling the elder that she was suicidal. the worst part was she VERY transparently USING her son in a ploy to attempt to gain additional sympathy which i thought was childish at best. this what i call girl was EXTREMELY manipulative and controlling of the conversation and seemed hell bent on instilling the elder with a GUILT TRIP at EVERY opportunity ! this has been a REAL eye opener for me. if u apostates are all like this which i now HIGHLY Suspect then NO WONDER most of u were disfellowshipped to begin with !

@electraknight8134 9 лет назад

+Toby Taggart, you have NO IDEA of what you are speaking of here whatsoever!! I know this family intimately, including ALL the circumstances, the entirety of ALL that was involved in the grueling process & dealings she endured from these Elders... I know ALL the FACTS INVOLVED, (unlike your callous 'ASSUMPTIONS', your drawing of COMPLETELY WRONG conclusions, about her 'intentions' & as to the 'kind of person she is')- You made a COMPLETE ASS out of yourself by doing this sir!! You have also showed yourself to be an INCREDIBLY JUDGMENTAL individual!!! Especially in light of having NO personal knowledge of this situation, or even the slightest CLUE of what has truly transpired, prior to her finally recording one of these men!! Which was originally ONLY recorded by her so that her parent could hear the conversation, should it be a bad interaction again. So she could have proof for that parent, if she needed it..... Good thing she did record it, because it DID go bad again & she had the proof!!! Even her active JW family members in VERY GOOD standing, some of whom PERSONALLY got involved by calling, emailing her committee & more, because they were extremely upset at how she & her son were being treated!!! So knock off your self-righteous attitude... And btw, WHAT are you even doing on any of these sites? WHY are you watching EX-JW videos, when you KNOW the GB has told you not to & that you would be in trouble with your Elders if they found out??? If you were doing it because you personally needed help or are searching for answers to questions or doubts that are plaguing you, that would be one thing... But all you did was judge & slam her & EVERY OTHER person who commented on this comment thread... Maybe looking at videos from EX-JW's is not what's best for you personally.... & If that rings true for you, you should probably STOP TROLLING them!! If they aren't helpful for your personal life & all you want to do is spew judgement on people who want to be on these sites, perhaps it's time you stop TROLLING & BASHING people & just go away.... Just a thought sir.....

@stingerster 7 лет назад

The recording is a person giving personal advise. It's against policy for an Elder to speak to a lady alone, especially another mans wife nonetheless, whether in person or over the phone. And, if she is suicidal she needs professional mental health help, not just spiritual counseling. So if this is a true recording, it should be submitted because that "Elder" needs counseling and help as well. The lady whether disfellowshipped or not likewise needs to be admitted into a proper care facility and put on suicide watch. It's sick for you guys to use a mentally disturbed woman like this.

@gregfuller1865 8 лет назад

It's obvious that they don't care. You've become a "high maintenance" witness and theirs no glory in managing your situation. It looks better for them to walk into the kingdom hall with that "new bible study." The principle of "leaves the 99 behind and helps the lost sheep" doesn't exist with them except in rhetoric. Sad but true.