HEMI vs Coyote (Can a 5.0 beat a 6.4?) 

Ain't happenin

There are Gen 3s in 3s in the 1/8th

@captainboose8788 Zreo HEMIS have gone 7s factory sealed. Zero have run 6.26 @ 227 mph with oe block heads and crank. Zero have run 5.67 @ 265mph with oe heads. Zero have matched John Mihovetz prepped 4.6 4V running 5.88 @ 256mph with an almost entirely oem engine. HEMI=HYPE

@@captainboose8788 🤣

@@chadkent1241 Really going down to the micro records here huh? Not sure what that has to do with my statement, There are Gen3 Hemis running 3s in the 1/8th, Mr. "ain't happening".

Viper engine ?

@@kenphilpot1903 nope

@kenphilpot1903 a Viper V10 still hasn't clocked a 5.... John Mihovetz has gone 5.88 at 256mph with an almost entirely oe parts 4.6 4V. 281 in³. Dodge/Hemi = Hype and nothing more

@@chadkent1241 I mean still the fastest / quickest production car . Viper held the Nurburg record for rear wheel drive …/ stock block / head viper ran 6.68 @ 220 . Idk what class but a gen 3 ran a 3.944 at 184.72 this year . Just saying that displacement always wins

That’s amazing. Especially 47psi of boost!!

I actually did not know this and was surprised while researching this video. Ive never been a Mopar guy.

@@AutoGuild, same. I've been a GM guy all my life, but I recently bought a 2022 Dodge Challenger R/T (5.7L) because it's the only car with a V8 and manual transmission that I fit in comfortably (I'm 6' 5"). So far, I love it!

Love it! I've been daily driving only a manual trans car since I was 22. @@DoctorHemi

@@AutoGuild. I didn't learn to drive stick till I was 30 (I'm 56 now), but I've had a manual car ever since.

There's nothing wrong with iron blocks.

Really? Do you have proof of this, or are you just saying this to prop up what it is you own? An OEM GEN3 Coyote is good for about 800 WHP before its strength needs to be brought into the equation. At that point you have to beef up the rotating assembly quite a good bit before the block becomes the weak link. It's been 17-18 years, but my member berries are making me think that Ford developed the plasma lining back in the early/mid 2,000's, and Nissan had to pay Ford to be able to use it in the R35 GTR.?.? Do R35 blocks have strength issues? This was before Ford introduced it in the 13/14 GT500. Are the 5.8L Modular guys struggling with supporting high HP #'s due to the spray in linears, and are they comverting to 5.4L blocks, or aftermarket resleeving? How many people are supporting well into 4 figure #'s with factory 18+ blocks? Why would high HP just destroy the factory lining? GEN3/GEN4 Coyotes use big/longer/stronger head bolts than GEN1/GEN2 Coyotes (went to longer 12MM bolts from the older 11MM bolts just like GEN5 LT did compared to LS) so why isn't this ever factored into block strength when comparing factory GEN2 to GEN3 blocks?

Also the 6R80 is less of a risk compared to the 10 speed.

Also the lower compression is more boost friendly

@@JROC734The biggest factor I believe in making a stock GEN2 better for high hp boosted applications is the 11:1 compression vs the 12:1 in the Gen3. 11:1 is right in the sweet spot where as 12:1 is right at the limit where you wanna be on a boosted application running pump fuel. This means you can run more aggressive timing on the GEN2 before detonation becomes an issue.

@@Thechildishmandingo so a Terminators 4.6L is a better engine due to its more boost friendly CR? How about a Hellcat engine? 11:1 is a very high CR for boosting in the traditional sense. For example look at how little boost people used to feed B18C5's and F20C's. The ITR engine had less compression than a GEN1/GEN2 Coyote, where the 2L S2000 engine had the same 11:1 CR. But they were considered too high a compression engines to excel at big boost, but at small boost they would match what many other engines of similar displacement made with noticeably more boost being pushed through them. How many people have pushed stock longblock GEN3 Coyotes into the 4 figure HP range? Probably more than GEN1/GEN2 Coyote have been push there on a stock engine. On top of that GEN3/GEN4 Coyotes can support more boost, and/or compression than GEN2 Coyote without having to pull a ton of timing, whether talking N/A, or boosted due to the fact that it uses dual port injection which is a big advantage to the old port injection setup. Then on top of that it has heads that flow a decent amount better, and it doesn't take as much boost with GEN3 Coyote to = the same power as it does with GEN1/GEN2.

Wow that would be interesting. Ill add it to the to-do list

Hemi more powerful Toyota more reliable

Yeah and the BGE has forged crank and forged pistons. Which makes adding a turbo or supercharger less of a danger for the bottom end of the engine. Iron block has more strength for that upgrade as well.

​@@LeadStarDude not forged pistons... better valves and block.

In what way ? They both have pros and cons .

@kenphilpot1903 5.7 and 6.4 don't hold power under boost like a coyotes do with stock bottom end. They are iron block...and crate engine vs crate engine they cost the same or the hemi cost more with cheaper material.

@@LordJerinza I agree the head flows more and revs help a lot and just looking at the motor the 5.0 is better in a lot of things . I would like a voodoo one day but for me displacement and tq just feel better and what I prefer . Also have yet to lose to a bolt on 5.0 so 🤷🏻‍♂️

@kenphilpot1903 the voodoo...is awesome. But honestly they are apples to oranges... OHV is not the same as a DOHC... we really shouldn't compare them. Oh really? I'm getting my fbo mustang together now... it would be cool to have a beer run!

@@LordJerinza they are way different . I’m not a dohc hatter . I know it’s better . But on the street I rather have tq . Obviously not comparing 700 plus cars to “ street “ cars but for semi normal traffic I’m taking the hemi

Brake-specific fuel consumption would be interesting to look at. But using EPA numbers may be kinda sketchy as I think they are self reported so who knows how much wiggle room the automakers are using in the numbers? BTW, nice airplane! ;-)

When comparing brake mean effective pressure, the GM or Dodge camp aren't even close.

The GEN3 Coyote in my 18 F150 XLT 302A, FX4, crewcab/5.5" bed, optional 3.73 reargear truck only averages about 1 less MPG than the LT1 in my 19 1SS 1LE. Both vehicles turn pretty much the exact same RPM on the highway at any given speed in their final overdrive gears. The F150 weights roughly 5,600 lbs with heavy, O/R focused 20" tires, and the Camaro is roughly a 3,730 lb car with fairly wide, performance oriented street tires. Basically an Alpha Camaro is a way better performance car than any Mustang built on a chassis who's origins date back to the DEW98 architecture, but a GEN3 Coyote is a superior engine to a GEN5 SBC, so the best car would be a Camaro SS 1LE with a GEN3 Coyote, and a TR6060.

I agree, Camaro chassis with Coyote engine would be the sweet spot ! @@JROC734

I get 19.8 at 70 in my Whipple charged 3.73 geared F150. 12 mpg at 70 towing my 6k car hauler. Yea, it’s also an 11 sec truck 😂

Agreed. What is your motor of choice for achieving this?

@@HiAxl 302

That’s an issue with the stock pistons. Forged pistons should be installed for anyone looking to greatly boost the 6.4 (non-BGE).

Exactly just add fuel system and boost on any Coyote and they can make some serious Horsepower all on a sealed unopened engine..cant do that with the hemis unless you upgrade the pistons and other things...even a gen 1 Coyote can handle 700+ Horsepower as a daily as i have a friend who has a 2013 Gen 1 with twin turbos making 725 to the tire and he drives it everyday!

Not a yote. Based on the 5.2 predator

@@rizzo538 that is a coyote just bored over

@@samadagoat7769 yea but not built at all like the street legal coyotes. Bad example to use was all I was saying

@@rizzo538 how is it not the same? Every part is interchangeable it’s the same exact engine just with bigger pistons

@@samadagoat7769 it’s not a “stock block coyote” that was mass produced and found in a mustang gt. That was the argument, as to whether stock block coyotes would hold that kind of power. I’m not arguing that the coyote and predator engines are much different. I’m arguing that the predator comes fully built from factory and doesn’t even come in a street legal car. Stock block coyotes that come in a gt can handle up to and around 1000 so I’ve heard. Predator engines are in a different category when talking about stock block limits. They come with 760, 800, and 1300 hp from factory so id hope that they come with internals capable for that

They sure dont run like a 505hp engine at least stock, must be the weight

@@e46m54nissansr20937 all of the weight, maybe more. Phat pigs they are!

I'd be surprised if it even made 485

Where have you seen that weight? Can you send me a link? I’ll pin an updated comment. Thanks.

He's talking about a dressed out engine, and not just a crated up LB. With that said the 465 LB for a GEN5 LT1 is on the lighter side of things for a dressed out engine. GEN5 LT1's aren't LS1 light. Since GEN3 LS the SBC has gradually gained some weight. (I think a DOD delete along saves you like 35 lbs. Whatever it is deleting AFM/DFM save noticeable weight along with its other benefits) At the same time GEN3 Coyote has lost weight compared to GEN1/GEN2 Coyotes. Not only does Ford plasma cylinder lining add displacement due to the larger bore it produces (307 ci for GEN3/GEN4 Coyotes vs 302 ci for GEN1/GEN2 Coyotes) but from my understanding the sprayed in plasma lining saves about 15 lbs over a traditional sleeved block. Basically as both series of engines have evolved LS/LT has gain a little in weigh, where Coyote has lost a little in weight.

MMRs 351 in³ billet block Coyote with ported oe gt350 heads has made 4,200 + on a Hub dyno.

Imagine a 6.2L Coyote V10 to compete with the Viper V10.

The coyote is overpriced. The LS is still king in popularity among modern V8's, for good reasons. As a Ford guy I must address this fact

Coyote stock running 10's stock motor all over US and Canada. Boosted stock Coyote in the 7's. You should research more! Look up Snot Rocket 1st stock went 6.95, 2nd version with sleeved cylinders, rods and camd running 6.36 at 224mph.

lol what. its not even the quickest in america let alone japan or europe

I 100% agree. Still the DOHC Coyote is so unique I love the idea of swapping stuff with it. But for sure expensive and a pain.

Coyote's are cheaper and easier to mod than LS/LT or GEN3 Hemi. Plus Hemi's mod like shit. Mofo's be modding 6.4L's with ported/milled heads, a custom ground cam, full boltons, etc, and they'll barely be breaking 500 WHP. This is with nearly a LS7 sized bore, and before any head milling/porting it has a CR higher than a LS3's, and heads that will supposedly (according to this video) flow more factory CFM's than either GEN3 Coyote, or GEN5 6.2L. It's pathetic how poorly GEN3 Hemi mods. Looking at it's stats that engine ought to be a topend monster and most similar to a LS7, but it's not, and it doesn't.

@@JROC734 coyotes are cheap to those who have deep pockets. They are considered easy to mod for those who like headaches and like buying specific tools. Coyotes are not cheaper, or easier to work on than OHV engines. Nice try😉. People who say they are because they are butt hurt about the fact that the coyote is the least popular of the three modern US V8 platforms. The fastest doesn't always win the popularity war. The Windsor powered Foxbodys back(although they weren't always the fastest at street races)in the day proved this. Those cars are now considered legendary. Ford has obviously forgotten this. The coyote is an overpriced, overcomplicated white collar powerplant. For that reason it will never be as popular as the competition. Especially when speaking of the GM LS. As a long time Ford fan and owner of several Windsor powered Foxbodys(still have my Windsor powered Notchback), it pains me to see Ford forgetting the formula that made them so popular in earlier Foxbody era.

@@erikturner5073 actually I'm not speaking fallacy, and am speaking from owning Modular/LS/LT/Coyote vehicles. Coyote is simple and easy to mod. Coyotes fuel system and MAF or SD system will support way more power than LS/LT/Hemi will before you need to mod them. Things like LT, and intake manifolds, and most other boltons generally run cheaper for Coyote. Camming a Coyote is not more expensive, nor is port work on your heads. With your modern OHV engines you're going to want to delete your MDS/AFM/DFM systems which is generally a mod that cost deep 4 figures just to delete the cylinder deactivation, then you're going to want to upgrade your pushrods, run some quality lifters, at minimum upgrade your rockarm trunnions. Do you want to spin the engine? Oh now we need to start thinking about expensive titanium, or hollow/sodium filled valves to lighten this large 2V setup up. On top of that GEN2+ Coyote comes fully forged and will support noticeably higher HP, safely compared to your OEM N/A OHV engines, and GEN2+ Coyote's even likely stouter than a factory LT4. So no, Coyote is in fact not more expensive, or harder to mod than a GEN3 Hemi or most LS/LT engines, especially if they came factory with cylinder deactivation. BTW I own an 88 Mustang GT. What are we talking about "fastest back in the day?" The 5L EFI Foxbodys pretty much invented the aftermarket for, and recipe on how to modify a modern EFI V8.

@@JROC734 your free to believe whatever you want. The numbers and the market don't align with your beliefs. Also I'm a master automotive technician of 30 years. However believe whatever you want.😉 For a street engine you shouldn't have to spin it to the sky to make power. The coyotes small size doesn't allow it to make any sufficient low end torque. Torque is king in the streets and blue collar folks are not operating in the high end of the RPM spectrum. Also most people race with power adders anyways, so Fancy high RPM valvetrain tech is not going to apply to most street builds. People are not building their engines to match the coyote high RPM capabilities. So your theory of everyone building their engines to spin 7k and higher RPM, especially in the days of good displacement and power adder goes right out the window.

The coyote is overpriced. That's the big issue, especially for swap expenses.

Look how large the Coyote is however, it might as well be a much larger displacement engine for its dimensions. Plus it’s more complicated, more expensive, and no better on fuel burn.

​@@erikturner5073you think the hemi isn't also overpriced?

No it doesn't. In fact off throttle Coyotes lowend torque production feels similar to a LS2's. It blows a GEN3 LS's lowend grunt out the water. Really I don't even look at it as lowend grunt as much as I do a Coyote just being so efficient at building engine speed that there's very little lugging before some big power surge with a Coyote like there is with a GEN3+ SBC running less than a 4" bore, or a N/A Modular 4V. Is Coyote as strong down low as a GEN5 SBC 6.2L? No. The LT1's power very much resembles a stock pulleyed Terminators power. A stock Terminator engine probably makes slightly better lowend power than a LT1, while not pulling quite as hard at redline as a LT1. Their power deliveries are very similar throughout the RPM range though, and they both have the same 6,500 RPM redline. With that said it doesn't matter. While GEN3+ Coyote might not have as much lowend grunt, or as broad a powerband as LT1, LT1 isn't nearly as efficient as Coyote is at turning over and building engine speed. Coming from a 19 1SS 1LE I was looking to get a L87/10L80 Silverado for a new truck as I was used to the platform. After driving a 5L/10R80 truck, I liked the F150 much better. The L87 truck just wanted to lug itself around, where the Coyote truck seemed to understand that it had 10 gears to play with, and was much more willing to downshift, and was much more playful. And a Coyote truck with a 10R80 and a 3.73 rear gear doesn't feel like it suffers from a torque deficiency compared to a L87 with a 10L80 and a 3.23 rear gear. Plus with a stock 275/55-20 which is a 32" tire (now comes with a 275/60-20 which is a 33" tire) a 10R80/3.73 combo gives you pretty much the same engine speed at any MPH in you're final overdrive gear as any LS/LT car that's running a M6. At 80 MPH you're right at 2K RPM which is a great highway RPM for a Coyote.

@@JROC734 I have nothing against the coyote except the size. No way to modify to expand the ci of the motor. Where I live to go fast requires big motor or boost. A mile high in altitude will make your fast car much slower.

That's not even remotely true 😂😂😂 Top Fuel Hemis RESEMBLE a Dodge as zero Chrysler parts Interchangeable and the sanctioning body REQUIRES everyone to run the current iteration of engines.

thanks sherlock

Sorry, 5.0, 5.5 and 5.8 Coyote's don't need 6.4 Ltrs to run faster. Thats why Ford Boys aren't impressed by Hemi's.

​@SilverRaven1959 well that's not true. In top fuel they all run hemi moters.

😂😂

392 can only handle like 6 psi of boost weak motor

Hell no

Slowpar

🤣

Boosted Coyote obliterates it

Funny, LSs haven't achieved what the smeller in³ twin cam fords have. Standing mile, 1/4 and 1/8 records AND with oe cast blocks and heads.

😆 Brett Lasala just SMOKED every Billet BBC/LS derived car on the planet winning Sick Week with an oe cast parts Coyote. Tell us some more bs

To you maybe

Pretty sure the video does mention the torque. And torque is useful for certain types of racing like drag racing. For lots of other racing like F1, Indy, even NASCAR you want full throttle high rpm max horsepower for top speed. Especially at the oval tracks. So again there is no right or wrong engine, just depends what your needs are.

media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2022/12/15/ho-ho-ho-horsepower--all-new-mustang-dark-horse-delivers-500-hor.html

🤣🤣ok

Delusional lmao Ls/Lt and coyotes are better in every way

@StayyMurkin16 video isn't about LS. I would choose an LT over coyote any day. Even hemi is better than Coyote.

​@@antor.j.medranoyoure in major denial. Thats ok you can choose those if you want meanwhile the rest of us roll around with stock long blocks pushing 700-800 wheel reliably with boost while driving like a stock car much much easier than either of those.

​@@antor.j.medranothe coyote is crushing everything at the track right now. You're delusional.

No hemi has run 300.4 mph in a mile(world record) Or run 5.88 @ 256mph with an almost entirely oe engine Or is the current king of street legal cars on 275s (Brett Lasala 6.33 @ 225mph) Or ran 5.67 @ 265mph with an oe head. Fords twin cam engines hold ALL of these world records At least you're confident in your incorrectness😂

Lmao bro is only saying that because the 392 can’t handle boost for shit

Just mad a boosted coyote gapped you it’s ok 🤣