Heresy/Crusade vs Modern Space Marines - Which is Better? | Warhammer 40k Lore 

Day 3 of requesting to make a video on Cato Sicarius 😢

​@@sharinganamvs9839 I AM THE GREAT CATO SICARIUS ( in a very high pitched voice)

Your next piece of merchandise should be BJJ gi

Will download links for purchased STLs still work after the 12 hours?

Getting inked isn't too bad, the lineart feels like being pinched sort of, the shading might get a bit rough when they go over the same area again and again, but... when the highlights are coming on, and they start inking on the extremely raw areas which have been shaded... THEN you will know what pain is! I did a 6 hour session on my tattoo on the upper arm, and I nearly started crying when they began highlighting. xD

Primaries Space Marines pretty much advance the modern space marines

most of the chapters HAVE lost a lot of their implants.

That was the old lore, the old lore had the crusade era technology was more advanced and the imperium decline was part of the grim dark setting. Then GW turned around with the release of the Primari and was like wow look at these roided up dudes in this so much more powerful gear! Totally not just truescale marines no way!

They had better "special" shit but the average gear is way better in the 40k's

Thousand Sons not so much afterall they were dying from magic cancer, and the blood angels were on roid rage before finding Sanguinius, and pretty much from what i read so far Iron Warriors & Ultramarines got the most stable geneseeds of all legions

One day 😂

Yeah, Bobby Blue was pretty horrified at what happened to the Imperium. Especially the religious aspect. I bet the Lion probably is a bit weirded out as well.. like "You know how many worlds I stomped into the dust that talked JUST LIKE THIS?"

We need answer, Majorkill !

You can't place in Gulliman's shoes and expect a reaction on the current imperium, because Gulliman is the one who shaped the current imperium, meaning that anyone you would place in Gulliman's place would be the shaper of the imperium at the moment. Just simply revive all the primarch and see how they would react, just like Lion, now trying to figure out and get the feel of the current imperium created partially by Gulliman.

@BIOSHOCKFOXX I think its more just an interesting thought exercise. How each primacrh would react to the state of the galaxy after 10,000 and how each of them would try to save it differently after the great rift

Dang, that made me realize how recent helicopter tech is.

​@Jenkins the OG's sailed into battle on gliders. Way scarier imo.

@@ScottDCSthat’s the airborn

I met the opposite once- a modern para giving it large over an old boy who fought in WW2 . The modern dickhead clearly couldn't handle his drink, the old gent was being far more polite than I'd have managed. Still, he decided to rag on the old man's record. "How many jumps did you make, granpa?" "Only the one, son." "What, just one jump? That barely qualifies as a para! Where did you drop?" "Arnhem son, Arnhem..."

Kinda doubt the story, the WW2 era soldiers did a whole bunch of badass paradrops and storming Normandy. That’s said a lot has changed in the modern era, especially CQB.

That section was awesome. They ambushed the Imperial Fists with superior numbers and were baffled by how fast and hard to kill they were. The part after where one of the warband was like "I knew all along!" was funny

​@@TheTrueMalice what book? I've heard the quote but dont know which book it was from

@@jkee9760 Shroud of Night.

@@TheTrueMalice thanks mate. I actually found a Wolf Lord Rho video talking about it lol

It literally took three of them to take down...one. And even then, it was easy

Crusade Era Sons of Horus: "why?"

@@rhodesiancowboy sons of horus did not exist during the crusade, only the Luna Wolfs.

No they did exist in the crusade era Horus changed the name to sons of Horus when he was promoted to Warmaster by the emperor.

@@krazekriz6584 incorrect, when Horus was promoted to war master, the emperor SUGGESTED the name change, but Horus declined as he thought it would make him seem arrogant, only changing his mind at the start of the Horus heresy after he had been corrupted by chaos in the more secretive phase of the heresy. I’m hoping we can agree that the Horus heresy’s start was the end of the great crusade

Read "Angels of Darkness". You will get to see some reactions from a crusade era fallen to the current state (who even stood at the side of the emperor).

GW needs to bring those sorta models back

Iron Armour and Cataphractii supremacy

Back then things were more ornate and had more personality. Also they showed off more trophies from races they conquered.

I really want GW to come out with Mark 4 armor

That's cuz the Night Lord in question was an excellent duelist already. It's also less of a "Old vs New" argument cuz said Night Lord basically dies right after.

That fight was intense

Xarl was such a beast will be missed

​@maxattack890 If Xarl had better armor and weapon, he would easily killed him.

@@nethanbrake6294 the champion had a thunder hammer I doubt anything less than Terminator armor would have helped him survive

And yet, those same legions bent over for Chaos.

GC? group chat?

😂😂

Guilliman: Don't use traitor legions just to satisfy your curiosity Cawl. Cawl: LOGIC DICTATES OTHERWISE.

Guilliman forgetting Dantioch saved his and the Lions life

​@@LupercalRising Ah I see you're a man of culture as well

Cawl be like: "Heresy laws prepare to be ignored 😎"

Hopefully he gets eaten by a tyranid one day and is cursed to an endless death at the hands of the nids

Yeah, by every metric Heresy era are significantly better until GW snorted a line of coke and made the Primaris and all the tech supplements that came with them. I guarantee that 9/10 times a named captain from Heresy era would stomp a named captain from 40k.

Perhaps Mortarion, but he's a cheatswitch and probably should only be matched against Ahriman. I meant Mephiston. I shouldn't reply when I haven't slept yet.

Mephiston, he probably beats all the heresy era duelists back to back. Besides him, you got grimnar, astorath, asterion moloc, tyberus. There are probably more, but these are the top of my head.

Dante, hell even cato at this point lol

I don't know if any 40k era non-psyker could take Sigismund on. Maybe Grimnar. I guess it would depend on the writer and how he'd see it.

The biggest advantage of indomitus pattern was how easy it was to manufacture compared to the other types, sure id didnt offer the amount of protection that cataphractii did, nor did it offer the same agility as tartaros, but if you can equip 2-3 marines for the same cost as 1 with terminator armor thats a quality on its own, especially during the heresy where quality dropped immensely and it was more important to just get any kind of gear. Also it did have better sensors than the other patterns so it was better in low visibilty situations, like a space hulk. Also during the heresy there were already special types of bolter ammo availiable, for example kraken rounds did exist already, but unique to the heresy where the tempest rounds that effectively turned the bolter into an airburst grenade launcher and the scorpius round, a super powered solid APFSDS-type of shell that was able to punch through terminator armor, although those were extremely rare. The alpha legion also had Banestrike rounds, developed to pierce power armor, altough not to the extend of vengeance rounds of 40k. Also during the heresy there used to be still a decent amount of volkite availiable, which was far more potent than bolters were. The only more advanced kind of weapon in 40k are the Grav weapons, but during the heresy there were graviton weapons. Altough Grav is better against heavy infantry graviton was better against tanks. But I do think that modern day marines on their own are better, since their training lasts way longer. Before you get to be a full fledged marine most aspirants get a decade of training and combat experience, whilst during the height of the crusade the recruitment time for an astartes was about a year. But then again due to doctrinal changes a heresy era tactical is more akin to a 40k scout, whilst a 40k tactical is closer to a 30k veteran. Primaris are a whole new topic to discuss, as the are physically better and have more advanced gear, but since they didnt get proper training they were more like the 30k marines that lacked the decades of experience regular marines had, so until they got they training regimen in order they were only useful to bulk out chapters that suffered a lot of losses, and those primaris that did survive and become veterans and rose through the ranks, or the older veterans that crossed the rubicon, are probably among the most lethal champions the astartes ever had.

@@michaelgrasser6553 I’m still kinda miffed by Majorkill’s hand waving of the redemptor dreadnoughts and other pieces of tech the crusade era marines had. As you said the number of unique bolt rounds was greater plus the volkite weapons I would think even the score a bit. The vehicles of the legions too are unmatched here as most modern marine tanks look like conversions of APCs and IFVs while the number of true tanks the legions had where nothing to snuff at. Overall I think majorkill here undervalues the crusade era and heresy era marines.

@@bombvoyage5686 He's still right though. Modern Space Marine Chapters are more effective due to their better gear (down to Astartes-level) and more efficient tactics. There's no comparison which is more powerful between a chapter and a legion. The Crusade Era also had better tanks and large equipment but modern chapters don't really act like armies but rather elite strike forces so they wouldn't need heavier and advanced equipment. The Chapters are more effective for the current state of the galaxy due to the spread out nature of threats to the Imperium. Also the video is about which type of Space Marine is better not a Chapter versus Legion comparison.

@@paimonisfood4986Except increasingly the chapters ARE coming together and acting like armies out of necessity, and their weaknesses in this regard are becoming clearer. We see this well in the devastation of Baal.

@@LouisKing995 That's just natural since the threats to the Imperium are doubling. Still having multiple Chapters play like armies have its advantages since they can work efficiently when going to war in larger scales since campaigns can now be done with 1000 Marines only.

I wonder who is larger without power armor him or Abbadon

@@jeambeam3173Tyberos is definitely bigger

I'm 99% sure Tyberos is confirmed to be the largest space marine ever

@@mightyphantom2176 I wouldn't be too certain. I've heard that abaddon is almost the size of horus or at least is in his warplate. Tyberos is also almost primarch size

@@cnut7383 it’s been stated abbadon wears modified terminator armor to fit him while tyberos wears terminator armor modified with deadnought armor just to fit him. No armor expansion could accommodate tyberos’s size while abbadon is fine with size modified terminator plate. Also as someone said above im not sure if it’s confirmed but I believe tyberos is the largest space marine to ever live

Don't know what this is suppose to mean as the technology does exist today. You can buy crusade Marines because 30k Hours Heresy TT is a thing. You can also design and tweak them yourself with a 3d printer plus the programs on your computer to design them with

@@jeambeam3173 I mean these embellishments, ornaments and stuff like that, see for example in the old HH books. Very fine details, and I'm not sure if a 3D printer can do that.

I Legion models from FW are ludicrously ornate, actually all the legion specific models are even the upgrade kits are. I think you mean more baseline legion specific troops like tactical, assault, heavy weapons instead of specialist units. It wouldn’t be a great idea until GW starts doing the fancy looking units in plastic and not resin. Otherwise imagine the cost of a whole legion sized squad of -insert basic unit here- marines that are as ornate as characters. FW models are *almost* not worth spending the money on but man do they look fantastic

@@Raubabbau I've seen some pretty fine detail on my friend's prints. It's certainly possible to do, though you'd need to do some cad work for each separate model design.

Primaris Tyberos would be large enough to bend _Abaddon_ over one of his knees as he spanked the heresy out of him.

Man would need to wear dreadnaught armor by that point.

​@@kingtorrhenstarkstark5311 he does already lmao or atleast the basis of his armor is still Terminator with Dreadnaught plating

His armor would probably just be the main chassis of a box dreadnought with modified terminator or dreadnought plating for his arms and legs.

I am picturing a CSM mistaking him for a Primarch and having the utterly appropriate reaction to that thought.

What came before?!

@aaronritchie6426 before his 40k stuff? All his old content was wildly different. Man sonic the autist hedgehog was a wild time

That's part of what I hate about Primaris. Changes the setting from one of a decaying empire with relics, to just tacti-cool boring

@@RemoteEars but it is decaying, it got split into two

@RemoteEars, not exactly. Eventually the Primaris will have Relics, at the moment they dont have because the setting only has moved roughly 2 centuries into the 42nd Millennium and that will never compare to the 10k yr history of the first born. . . so give them a chance and hopefully GW moves the timeline up to the point that Primaris are as renowned and soulful as their first born brethren.

​@@anotharoundboi well... see ya when we have Warhammer 50K.

That's incorrect some marines were bigger than average but that's more individual cases

Heresy traitors would clap the f out of Logan they had better tanks and a whole legion majorkill for about that

@@argeltalthecustodiankiller6552 I think he was just comparing a marine vs a marine not an army vs an army.

You mean "If they saw Logan jumping off a flying Nordic boat pulled by two huge thunderwolves and sprinting at them in Terminator armor while spinning a two-handed khorne axe."

I mean the thought of that must haunt some dreams.

Cataphractii armor is indeed more survivable than indomitus armor since it has powerful energy shield generators. It does not have void shields. It also lacks the advanced sensory arrays and some of the flexibility of indomitus armor.

Mannnnnnn Dont be mentioning Shadrak Medusan I still hate the Iron hands because of that

Chaos is a very fun faction An original Heresy Marine had been arpind for 10k years. But they might be 300 years old Or They Might be 20,000 years old They rven typically have a better sense of humor than thr loyalists