Hollow Knight - Speedrunner vs. 4 Hunters 

Yes

Wait how is this 17 hours ago? The video came out 2 minutes ago. I mean you might’ve private and un private but still.

You is cool

You forgot cranky

@@xXWolf24Xx plot twist: he doesn't exist

man’s gonna speedrun silksong before it came out

Theory, Fire is helping to playtest the game but he cannot tell us... conclusion, he did indeed complete Silksong

@@DokuDoki he probably already knows every skip and glitch before it's even released

lol xD

@@DokuDoki He’s gonna be the reason there are no skips or glitches if that’s the case.

That fucking killed me lmfao

@@kelismaincharacter4925 same

Timestamp anyone?

@hornet is spider Thanks. Returned to watching this after some time, so I didn't remember it was in the beginning.

This comment aged well

Hello

What are you doing here....

hello

Early pass right here sonny.

Sad thing dolan is a console war veteran😔 he only likes pc

came here to say this, they got trolled.

I really hope he does this in like april fool's while just hiding at crossroads using a cheat engine

strenght charm should do double damage in multiplayer

He beats NKG just to flex.

the strength also has to be unbreakable.

He knows the place like the back of his hand at this point

He's fireborn, what do you expect

dude probably go through Path of pain Blind folded.

@@revivrevalchn3503 I refuse to believe he hasn't

@@revivrevalchn3503 bro the path of pain to him is *a path to the grocery store*

Yes I'm going to learn how to speedrun good and then come for fire's spot

everytime I see you on the screen approaching fireborn, I get menacing vibes and totally expect fire to easily die, but he got better

I watched your Stream awhile ago

17:12 when he opened that shortcut I was flabbergasted

You were the only one who did anything to kill him. Others hit him, but otherwise just said “nice” when you landed the final blows.

the best moment of the whole thing tbh lol

After he died, "Don't thank me, thank Watcher Knights."

Basically the reaction of the villain when the main character pulls out his secret technique

It's surprising that even with this, the latter manhunts are much more impressive. Also 1 k likes and no replies? Damn.

Also: agh dang it he got me

good thing i realized the video was trash a min 30 in

@@kane2440it's not

bruh wat

@@SlothyYT preety much is tho

25:05 (for those who need it)

*Darth vader music plays in*

(Menacing)

Yeh I loved this moment. Fire: tries to go right. Nope there’s a guy there. Heads left. Elevator rises. “Hello there”

Fr

Yeah, the 16 seconds beat down of Hornet left me speechless

That was the fun part. So hilarious to watch when he had to struggle to circumvent their interference. Though maybe camping Uumuu is too unfair.

tbh he should have ability to just 1 tap them or hit them once and stun them for 10 sec but he cant damage them in that time

I've had Hollow Knight for a week and all the tricks Fire does to skip through the game just boggles my mind!

666 like here

I'm 777 like nice

I was literally hearing this while reading this comment

Whole video was just fire making big brain plays

Potentially they could stay in call together but fire has the discord audio not coming into his headset? That way the video still has audio but neither side has each other's

I also don't think fire would be able to do it without the Intel. Cuz they did overinflate how well he was doing in their heads, constantly thinking he had stuff he didn't.

Having Fire hear their plans is incredibly fun. Since they have to either resort to mindgames or do something else. Fire working blindly wouldnt be as fun.

Yeah especially since as soon as 1 spots him another heads there and as soon as 2 appear it looks like any boss becomes impossible

Hunters learning to communicate without giving away their plans/positions is a part of what makes the manhunt format work, IMO. The calls need to stay as-is, they just need to recognize that it's part of the learning curve

But that problem is very hard to fix, if you barred boss fights somehow to make it easier on fireborn, it becomes way to hard for the hunters, and that'd be for any speedrunner, not just fireborn

@@lair9792 Why are you just spamming this exact same thing? Limiting the number of people able to go into the boss arenas would make it so progress isn't literally impossible when they all bench up in the same spot. The Uumuu fight was absolutely unfair, and the only real solution would be to limit the amount of hunter that can be in the boss rooms. You constantly repeating "it'd be too easy then" doesn't align with how ridiculous their grouping up on him was. Would've been even worse had he reached the Hollow Knight

@@heckingbamboozled8097 I used the same argument in different comment threads. It wasn't supposed to be spam, my apologies. It seems you have misunderstood what I meant. I never claimed the Uumuu fight wasn't unfair. It was very unfair. However, for a run where the runner can easily avoid everyone for 95% of it, what are the hunters to do? Blindly wander and hope to stumble upon someone? Especially when fireborn can listen in and easily take a route to avoid everyone. My argument isn't "don't limit boss fights," it's "if you are to limit boss fights, the only reliable way to find the runner, there has to be a counter measure for the hunters in place of the restrictions, because without a counter measure, it'd be incredibly easy for the runner to win.

@@lair9792 But he already has a timer, so it’s not like he can just avoid them forever. And the main goal here is content, and it’s not very entertaining to just watch fire get killed over and over by getting camped.

@@sunsetskye483 While I understand and agree with what you say, it also isn't entertaining to see a one sided decimation on the runners side. The hunters are put at a disadvantage by having fewer masks so the only realistic way to fight him is with more than one hunter. This puts them at a disadvantage because it groups them together and gives him more areas to run off too. He can hear all the communication as well. While camping mandatory boss might be scummy and not something I see a whole lot of fun in watching, it was the right decision. There's few areas they know he has to go to, and he can do them in whatever order he likes. It's not that I disagree with what you said, but I'm not so blind to see the advantages fireborn had for the most part.

Personally I think it should be an amount of times they have to kill him, not a time limit.

I think the 80 minutes is short though. 120 minutes probably more reasonable.

@@Abyss10n well he did beat the game in circa 30 minures

The problem is when all the hunters sit in the room... what can the runner do? It just ends up becoming essentially impossible... and the hunters don't HUNT. They just sit at the boss... and win. By creating a time limit they ensure that he can't get mask shards and soul containers, limiting his options massively... and in turn making a near impossible challenge. They can just forgo hunting them the entire time, just wait on the boss they did here... and win.

​@@Buglin_Burger7878 I think that problem spawned less from the time limit and more from the fact that he was straight up out of time. Given a little longer, he could've faked out Uumuu and made his way to the Beast's den (and then possibly bench warped), but because he literally had no time left, his only choice was to throw himself at Uumuu Also, keep in mind that he spent a very long time jumping between Soul Sanctum and Watcher Knights, which if he'd been able to deal with sooner, could've also (as they said) done things like get another mask or shade cloak, which would force them to change their positions

*Concentration*

"That's a lot of milk!"

@@nhn05 oh no pls no

@@nhn05 **points gun** Don't you dare

i dont understand

Neither to watch them

True

Facts

Agreed

Agreed

That's the point of a challenge >.>

Those are my favorite parts.

@@themantsang A challenge is no longer a challenge if it is quite literally impossible to complete. This wasn't fair at all as soon as they just started respawning outside the boss rooms and constantly attacking him not allowing him to progress. There should have been rules set up to disallow that and actually make it interesting.

@@jpowel Or they take boss damage also, if they had to avoid everything he did it would make it fairer

@@laharlkent Wouldn't really work, since the bosses all target Fire only. The Hunters would just have to make sure they don't run into the bosses' attacks by accident, otherwise it'd be more or less the same.

Timestamp? I think I missed it

@@zerayah2474 1:38

The thorns Duh

New problem, new suggestion. Hopefully fire reads this.

@@HalfaWaffle601 shhhh they'll never know

@@HalfaWaffle601 I mean, given the multiplayer mod's tendency to NOT show things...they might actually never know

Especially if he’s trying to avoid them in greenpath after Hornet

I was playing as a blue sentinel and had an invader who did that today stood beside the pus of man in high wall of lothric with a bunch of poison weapons. Fuck that guy

I mean, as long as you dont suck at the game like a casual it shouldn't be difficult to deal with

@@ciaranhayes3212 the pus of man is the hardest enemy in High Wall, but I remember on my first playthrough I was so scared of the blue fatty there but I found out later he’s really easy

Me with swinging axes in sens

i wish darksouls 3 wasnt infested with cheaters , i would play it to this day , my best moment of all time was killing 3 people in a single blow as they chased me and i charged up my big fire log wearing full onion armor.

It was fun to watch it too

i have been a fan of your work for ages relyea

@@fourcornet1308 same

This'll be fun in silksong

Who else thinks relyea is underrated... I have got so many abilities like monarch wings, christal heart, mantis claw, etc bcz of him. Next can you please rank all the hollow knight bosses like rusty😁

i thought you said heartwarming 😭😭

yeah it makes it really unfair

Yeah, even if there was just a respawn timer or something it would help to ease the dogpiling and mean if you get stuck in a bottleneck there's still some chance.

@Georgian Canis Not entirely sure but there could be some restrictions with how the mod works :p

guys, the ideia is to make this really hard, LIKE REALLY HARD. Any penalty that benefits fireb0rn will make this challenge easier.

@@rafaelmoraes1288 because fighting 4 players while fighting umuu with a weak nail and 2/3 spells is fair.

Diane H. Yeah I think this would be a little more fair

This!! I really think this would deal with the bottleneck problem but still let them strategize

This would be a huge improvement and I think is necessary if they want to separate the runner/hunter comms next time.

Dream Gate

@@sambews5679 what about it? Just need all the hunters to agree to the rule, not like they don't all know each other

for 2 years now

@Family Shands the godhome any% nmg wr is 2hr 44m and 45s so it won’t work

@@Verisity but in some of the other runs they didn’t have a time limit, maybe have a run dedicated to godholm, and he does normal ending instead.

@Family Shands flower isn't needed for godhome ending, it just alters the result.

Agreed no need to nerf fire, in fact they should have nerfs

they can dreamgate to bosses in a flash, they have more access than you have at the start and they can guess where you need to go so i feel the current ruleset gives them enough

But that's forgetting how long he was able to evade them though. And the time he has when he's free and alone are a bit boring too.

curious how it would make the video less entertaining. The speedrunner never spoke anyways, only using text at the bottom of the screen to communicate with the viewers. The 4 hunters on a separate call would be speaking to each other and that would be the audio that plays in video... since ya know... we don't really need to hear the speedrunner talking to themself. . yes, having them in separate calls would give a bit of an edge to the hunters (this videos whole purpose is to set a challenge for the speedrunner). But I believe that edge balances out by either adding a respawn timer to the hunters, not allowing hunters into boss arenas, or somehow allowing bosses to target hunters as well.

I mean yeah the uumuu thing was ridiculous

@@mossytime349 even the soul master fight felt unfair. and the second attempt at watcher knights was ridiculous. PLUS camping the bench

@@aidenwhiting5131 Maybe there's a highlight on which sector he's in but they have to respawn at Dirtmouth

I feel like the only way to balance this is to allow the Hunter to be hit by the bosses, that way everyone is multitasking, not just fireb0rn

@@witherwolf3316 yes agreed

*the* *WHAT*

Yeah i wish i had known

@@Bee-rr3ei my reaction exactly lol

Same here and I thought I knew everything about this game at that point lol

saaaameee!

Yeah, agreed. It's also not like they couldn't use it to their advantage either, by throwing out false info every now and again to try bait him.

And the fact that the 3 dreamers are a necessity they can just camp it, umu wasn kinda impossible

FACTS

Having a separate discord is good so they don't have to plan around not saying things they don't want him to know, there are other ways to tune the balance

@@ohno5559 nah it takes too much of the fun out of it

Agreed

A cooldown on death for the hunters would make it so much better

My thoughts exactly

I think if the hunters could only respawn from like dirtmouth could work.

Cd on hunter would be a great thing, he should have defenitly bait them to an other dreamer to not confirm this was the last one

The reason the hunter's can't be damaged by the bosses is because they're playing on a completed save file whereas Fire is not. I also kind of disagree about them not being allowed in the room after the doors are closed but only because of just how good Fire is and how it would mean that he wouldn't even have trouble winning at that point.

@@trickytreyperfected1482 Tbh it's just annoying to watch the camping. Smth to prevent that specifically is what i'd like, but given the perimeters you mentioned that doesn't sound possible. Maybe a limit of how many hunters can be in the boss room at once, depending on the boss and the boss's difficulty..? So like for gruz mother, all 3 hunters can go in. But for something like the watcher knights, only one can go in at a time, but the other two can wait outside the door to go in, once the first hunter dies. Or, maybe a cooldown once they die inside of a boss room until they can enter again..?

@@squishish ooh, yeah I like that last idea. I think one rule that would be cool is if the hunters aren't allowed to bench meaning they have to travel to get back to the fight. If there was a way to disable contact damage for PvP specifically, that would also be good but I don't think that's possible. I do like the idea of limiting the number of hunters for certain fights but I can see where that might get too limiting.

@@trickytreyperfected1482 One of the last games, they did remove certain benches for the hunters! so i think that was a good call. :> It certainly seemed to help, but even then sometimes it was a bit much(they had dreamnail and would put it down nearby). It's certainly something to think about, and i think fire is trying to mend that because of the bench idea happening. :> I'm sure a good solution will happen eventually! So that's good. I need to catch up and see if anymore changes got made ^^

It'd be better if the hunters weren't allowed to use benches.

Ah yes, with those changes, it becomes practically, let's watch the speedrunner absolutely destroy everyone. Hell, with those restrictions, I could beat the hunters. Do you understand how skewed that is in favor of the speedrunner?

@@lair9792 I would lose 3 and 2 and make 1 after 3 to 5 deaths

@@gigachad7729 that could work

@@lair9792 it would give the hunters a chance while not completely dooming the speed runner during important bosses

I like the first rule but not the other two

absolutely if they have all the communication and they dont take dmg from bosses thatd be too op

I would argue that they need a bit of a nerf. Last boss part was ridiculous.

@@nihili4196 if you nerfed them at bosses, you'd have to buff them everywhere else. It's basically impossible to find someone that knows where everyone is. He hears all the communication. If you nerfed them at bosses, I could probably beat them. This type of thing is a very hard thing to balance.

@@lair9792 no you wouldn’t

@@IAMIKO_ right, and you know that. You know how good I am at Hollow Knight? I must ask where you got this information. There's a little something I like to live by. The greatest video game players don't stream, the don't publish themselves online, and we'll never know who they are. I'm by no means claiming I'm a God at video games, but I don't think you see the bigger picture. I'm not looking at the views from a fireborn fan boy perspective, I'm looking at it from a realistic perspective. There are many things that make it way too easy for the runner, and there are also parts that make it way too easy on the hunters. This obviously wasn't something intended by the developers, so it also isn't something that is properly balanced either. If you'd like, I could go into lots of detail on how the manhunt wasn't properly balanced. That's of no fault to the people in the video of course, it's just a matter of fact. Those things take time to work the kinks out of. My personal complaint is when you assume you know my level of skill and that's just not possible. I could be the worst player on the earth, or I could be better than fireborn, but that's not the point. My point is you wouldn't know. With my prior comment, I used expressive language to make a point, I didn't mean to cause any misunderstandings. I do apologize, but I also dislike it when people make baseless claims based off of zero evidence.

that is gonna be pure massacre

@@kiritolightning YES, AND ITS PERFECT

@@pokegirl1799 e

High key agree

Same. The confused commentary makes it way better.

Ye

Very true, I couldn't agree more

I disagree, Hollow knight is different, and I find this funnier.

its with every game, not only hollow knight, just watch speedrun of any video game you like and you will feel sad

You should take your time on your first file though

@@jasmijn-1419 please i have like 36 hours on my game and 4 of them have been spent on those knights lmao

@@shuckle9529 tbh the minecraft speedrun is awesome to watch without feeling sad, except for the one-cycle. And magma ravine portals.

Heh it took me 80 hours to get the true ending

Plot twist: noob kills Hornet 1 before fire gets there :D

@@pclouds they are on different save files so it wouldn’t work

where*

Ik I would have just got it it wouldn’t have wasted any time lmao

Lmao

Lmfao

It'd become way too easy for the speedrunner and that's not just fireborn either. With the way it's set up, if there was a bar to the boss fight, it'd become very difficult for the hunters

@@lair9792 then maybe limit how many hunters can enter the boss fight.

Ух ты я нашёл русскоязычника!

Makes sense

not an unpopular opinion anymore

Is that really true? 0-o

@@heyo8228 Yes

@@heyo8228 no

There is so much potential to improve this

I feel like it wouldn't change much since the in this run he lost by getting stuck at a bottleneck

I 3rd this.

So the hunters go on a wild goose chase against him just to finish the video, or the hunters just sit at the same spot which makes the video boring at the end

I 4th this

nice idea tbh

yea

Cute idea I love it

I feel like this would actually work really well to make it more fair. This one was utterly unfair due to the ability to just respawn in chokeholds and right next to boss fights, with no penalty for deaths.