This video has the instructions on how to mix your own copper or bronze metal clay from ingredients that are available online. The cost per 100 grams is about 1/4th the cost of commercial pre-mixed metal clay.
There are copper and bronze clays on the market which allow you to torch fire. Do you have any ideas as to what you'd need to do to make a torch fired version?
Re: the steel, Douglas & Sturgess sell atomized steel, zinc, bronze, brass & copper. The steel is only $24 for 10#. Metal artist Hadar Jacobsen has done a lot of beautiful work with assorted colors of steel (& other metal) clay, and sells her own line of high quality powdered bronze, copper & steel clays. I've purchased her "Goldy Bronze" product & it's great, but using your recipe & resources, I can make larger items affordably. I really appreciate you sharing this!
Do you know if the finished copper is electrically conductive? Like if I wanted to do electroplating on it or make small electrical contacts for other projects? TIA
Water should be added with a little sprayer until the right consistency is achieved. Less is more sometimes and it takes a little practice to get it right.
Thanks for this video Alan! Do you have a recipe for a copper clay that could be torch fired? kilns are so expensive and i'm just starting out so would love a solution that only uses a torch. Thank you!
I have successfully used rice starch as a binder. It was probably the most successful other than the methylcellulose in my opinion. The clay's consistancy came out more "goopy" if that is a good descriptor. It is worth experimenting with as it's cheap, but I didn't like it as well. I also didn't love xantham gum or potato starch.
+Alan Wiggins Have you tried other metals since then? Totally commenting before I subscribe and peruse your other videos, but I'm *very* interested in steel/stainless steel. It would make Mokumo Gane *SO* much easier than with my forge!
+Rion Motley I havn't tried steel or stainless steel. I think it can be done in theory, but you'd have to find a supplier of atomized steel. Makume gane is possible in metal clay, and I've done it with copper and bronze but I've never played with any steel based clay or powder. If I did have steel powder I'd mix it up and try to figure out a good firing temperature through internet research or trial and error.
+Alan Wiggins I'm really interested in trying this stuff in my 3D printer with a "claystruder". I'll definitely let you know how it works - a buddy and I are going to be putting some videos together soon, it'll probably be one of the first, and I'll be sure and tag/credit you. And thanks for the super quick reply. *high five* on science + pretty stuff.
I found a real one just yesterday and I found this sait by goggling the coin i found you guys I have been living here for 8 years and never knew how much stuff I have gotten 5 gallon buckets full of all kids of cavings are on them All kinds of material used to make them and so fastnain you can look at one piece for hours and see many different stills of artists.
I found a real one just yesterday and I found this sait by goggling the coin i found you guys I have been living here for 8 years and never knew how much stuff I have gotten 5 gallon buckets full of all kids of cavings are on them All kinds of material used to make them and so fastnain you can look at one piece for hours and see many different stills of artists.
I found a real one just yesterday and I found this sait by goggling the coin i found you guys I have been living here for 8 years and never knew how much stuff I have gotten 5 gallon buckets full of all kids of cavings are on them All kinds of material used to make them and so fastnain you can look at one piece for hours and see many different stills of artists.
I found a real one just yesterday and I found this sait by goggling the coin i found you guys I have been living here for 8 years and never knew how much stuff I have gotten 5 gallon buckets full of all kids of cavings are on them All kinds of material used to make them and so fastnain you can look at one piece for hours and see many different stills of artists. 2:35
I found a real one just yesterday and I found this sait by goggling the coin i found you guys I have been living here for 8 years and never knew how much stuff I have gotten 5 gallon buckets full of all kids of cavings are on them All kinds of material used to make them and so fastnain you can look at one piece for hours and see many different stills of artists. 2:35
When buying the methylcellulose, what type do you use? I found it at "The Modernist Pantry" but they offer low viscosity, high viscosity, food grade & gluten free (not that anyone should eat this clay!), all at same price. Do you have a preference?
Here's a preview on firing. Everyone's kiln behaves differently, but I fire in coconut shell activated carbon without a lid. For both copper and bronze I fire to 800 degrees F for at a ramp speed off 1000 degrees F per hour in the open kiln on a small mesh stand. This burns out the binder and should turn them black in color. Fire copper for phase 2 at full ramp to 1790 degrees x 2 hours. Fire bronze to 1545 F (in my kiln at least - you must experiment) at full ramp x2 hours
Alan, very happy to have found your video...have purchased some atomized copper and the binder you recommended. Mixed according to your recipe....made some pieces. They are textured squares and rounds, 5-6 cards thick. While they were drying, the corners began to curl up slightly. I was able to flatten them and place a weight on top to keep them flat...but am wondering what I might have done wrong. Too much water? Three to one ratio needs adjusting? I'm not sure. The clay felt like the other commercial clay. I am in a temperature controlled home...low humidity. They are not quite dry...so have not fired them yet. Any feed back is appreciated.
Good question. I tend to press things into molds and dry them on the flat surface I molded them onto. So, I really haven't had that problem. I also use the "Badger Balm" to condition the clay so that could also be a factor. I know with other clays that include methylcellulose can be flattened more easily if you cool them in the fridge first. You could certainly play with adding more/less binder as well. Honestly, I think the ratio is pretty flexible (in my experience). In cases where I have gotten some warping during drying/firing I hit them with a little plastic mallet to flatten them out, and have had good success. To be clear, I it them with the mallet AFTER I feel like they are fired and solid.
Alan Wiggins Thanks for the feedback, Alan. Will continue to experiment and will keep you posted (if you would like). I didn't use badger balm...will try that. So far, I am a happy camper...really appreciate your videos. :)
Sherry Thorup Well Alan, I am reporting in with 'egg on my face.' We mixed the clay wrong...put way too much binder in the copper...so problem solved. My kiln just arrived and I am going to fire my copper pieces (made with your recipe)...they should be fine! Thought you would want to know.
This is EXACTLY what I was needing for a project I'm working on. The commercial clays are just too expensive. Presumably once you've mixed this you then add distilled water, right? I haven't found any further videos from you on this. Do you still get a 20% shrinkage with this recipe?
Thank you for sharing this really beneficial information. This makes bigger items more do-able. Have you tried making any of the steel/pearl steel clays?
I have not. I don't see how it would be different other than the firing temperature might not be the same. Also, I don't know where to get atomized steel. I don't know what combination or alloy of metals would make the product "pearl gray".
In response to the silver/gold clay recipe, raw materials are not as readily available and it are toov expensive. I'd love to try silver if atomized silver was cheaper than commercial silver clay.
Small copper-only pieces might just work, but I haven't tried it myself. I've just heard of it done. Bronze would not work in my opinion. If you do it, I would try firing on a made-for-the-purpose charcoal block in order to promote a "reducing" (aka oxygen free) environment local to the piece.
This is great for the budget. Question tho, the Methylcellulose that you are using, is it liquid or powder. If powder, how much water should I use to make it work with the powder copper. Thanks
Hello and thank you Alan, for your videos. A few questions; Where is your firing video you mentioned??? [the metal clay companies haven't bought you out or bumped you off-haha] Or, when will it be available to view? Can you free form "your clay" or does it have to be molded? Have you tried pewter?? Thank you for your response.
It is absolutely fine to "free form" the clay. Pewter would probably not work as the metal (elemental Tin (Sn) primarily) has a very low melting point. Like in the 400-500 range.
I believe the "atomized copper" and "atomized bronze" that I use is 325 microns. Smaller would probably work, but I don't think "reagent grade" copper powder is necessary. Douglas and Sturgess's website has some good options at a reasonable price. Just search "copper powder".
Firing is a later video, but yes you do have to fire the second phase in activated carbon. It is a similar method to commercially available powdered metal clays and at similar temperatures.
Hi Alan, thanks for the video. I noticed that some companies are making hand fired metal clay where you can torch it. Is there a way to make a metal clay that can be hand torched if we don't have a kiln?
Enjoyed your video. A question, can you use any metal powder or does it have to be atomized metal powder; What are the advantages or disadvantages of either; what mesh should it be? Tx.
Can you tell us if you have to put it in coconut shell carbon or can you fire it w/o being covered...how long do you fire and what temperature?? Thanks you very much!
Great video. I have a question regarding the powders. I went on the Douglas and Sturgess's website and I am a little confused as to which powder to order. I am after copper and bronze. Is it the atomized one or which one should I order? Can you be more specific? Would it be possible to make your own silver pmc using the same technique?
hi there, i love your video! I have two questions about the brass clay jewelry and pendants. Can you make them gold plated or silver plated? If you make lets say a ring out of metal clay, will it leave green color on the finger? Can you make them gold plated or silver plated ?Thank you so much!
Would you be able to do this with rice starch as a binder instead? I hear a lot of companies use that instead. It seems it might not have the quality of the more common materials but it can be really, really cheap. Any comments on this?
I have heard of (but haven't done myself) people torch firing small amounts of copper clay on a piece of carbon which absorbs the local oxygen. However, I think that is dodgy at best. Really, I think you need a kiln. Definitely for bronze.
Still waiting Alan! Please just write out the directions (firing-timing) in this comment section. I already have my ingredients. You have engaged many people with your videos. They all want to know the same thing. Hope to hear from you soon! Help!!
thank you so much Alan! any pointers on how to make a sturdier clay…I'm about to experiment… i want to do some larger scale (4", hollow forms) things which could stand up to the torture. just curious if you have tried to go in this direction.
Kelly O'Dell I would experiment with more methylcellulose relative to the metal powder. Also, you could try working with the clay after it's been refrigerated as it could be paradoxically more flexible when it's cold. Honestly though I think it's harder to work large with any metal clay.
Thank you for the videos! We would be very interested in seeing more. Since you only talk about copper and bronze, does that mean that the other atomized metal powders from Douglas and Sturgess do not work?
I have heard of steel powder working, but I don't think aluminum, brass, or zinc would. I have not seen any commercially availiable (at least at prices less than the silver clay itself is) atomized silver.
I am trying to find the video on how to get the powder mixed. Can't find it. Do you add water to it? Do you have a video showing how to do this. Thanks. Love your video
Lancelot Tavola If it's sintered properly the bronze is very hard. it can be hammered on or sawed. I doubt it's as hard as cast bronze, but it should be hard enough for any jewelry purpose.
I have heard of small pieces of similar copper clays being torch fired. However, I have never tried it. I do not believe bronze would work due to the zinc content.
I do not believe you can as the brass alloy has different components. My understanding is that the zinc is the problem, but it could be the tin. I don't recommend it.
SevenSpot aluminum is a different animal chemically. I strongly doubt that it would work with this method. Silver, gold, copper, and bronze can work if you can find appropriate metal powders. Bronze being the most picky in terms of temperature.
Methylcellulose is my pick after some experimentation. Rice flour can work as well, but it's picker. Get a big can of methylcellulose and use it forever.
My understanding is that the chemistry of brass (mainly the zinc component) makes it so it doesn't work as metal clay. I have not personally tried it however.
Hi Alan, Which methylcellulose are you using? I noticed the brand in your video is WillPowder but they offer several options that are differentiated by letter. (E4M, E19, F50, etc.) Could you reply to let us know which one you're using? Thanks for the great video!
I'm thinking of trying gold. If you use an extra fine file or sander/polisher to get powder I'm thinking it could work for gold. I might take some scrap to try
Thank you for this video! I checked online and the Douglas and Sturgess bronze powder contains zinc. The cheaper bronze powders I've found online contain tin. Is it zinc I should avoid or is it tin?
+Lorri Carnevale What point did you get to? Did it crumble after it dried? Did you get to the stage where you fired it? Forgive me for asking, but do you have a kiln (many people have no experience so I have to ask)? Make sure you watch my "Mixing" and "Firing" videos as well. It takes a little practice to get it all right, and it can be finicky.
Aharon noraha I think you can get it somewhere online, but for the price commercial silver clay is probably as cheap or cheaper. I have never seen commercially available atomized gold.
Hi +Alan Wiggins I tried the making brass piece using your recipe (3:1, brass powder 200mesh 70Cu/30Zn), burnt at 540C for 45min and fired at 880C for 2.5hrs in coconut shell granular carbon. However, when I pull the thing out of the kiln, it's still clay like and break reasonable easily without metallic sound. Can you point me in the right direction on which part may go wrong? Thanks.
Alan Wiggins Thanks for the quick reply. Is there way to make it work somehow as brass clay is quite common in this field right? If it really doesn't, will this recipe work for stainless steel and nickel? Thanks.
+Pingshun Huang (Alex) my only experience is with bronze and copper. The steel may work, but it world likely need different firing temperatures and i havn't tried it.
I will report my results. i used a 4 to 1 ratio of metal powder to methylcelluous. no problem in making a nice clay with that. sometimes i added a drop or 2 of glycerin and that worked well. however, I was unable to sinter the clay. I fired a commercial copprclay piece along with my home made variety and the commercial product sintered. i did a 2 phase firing. 1st firing was 1000/hr ramp held at 1000 for 15 min, then phase 2 was 1750 for 3 hours. because the commercial clay sintered, i know there was something wrong with my recipe. i'm going to try to refire the pieces. i'll post if they turn out ok. mixed metal clay pieces (bronze, steel, copper) also didn't sinter.
If you use a base metal powder that is wax coated (smells like crayons) then that stuff wont sinter. The waxy coated metals is usually used in coatings and paints.
Alan Wiggins So, I changed it up and fired copper in 2 separate phases. 1st phase: full ramp to 1000, hold at 1000 for 30 min, on an open shelf to burn off binder. 2nd phase: full ramp to 1750, hold at 1750 for 3 hours in activated coconut carbon in steel container with a vented fiber board over the top to reduce oxidization. Less crumbly, but still no sinter. I am using the atomized copper from the vendor in your video and methylcellulose as the binder (20% binder in my mix ratio). I'm planning on mixing up a new batch with only 15% binder tonight to give it another try. Thanks!
Strange. Possibly too much methylcellulose (I usually go by volume not % weight. How much carbon are you putting in? I generally don't use the vented fiber board. Strange that it's not scintering. It really sounds like it should be.
jeanbcook Try just 3 "parts" by volume D&S metal powder to 1 part MC, ie 3 tablespoons: 1 tablespoon (or cup, teaspoon, whatever just match it by volume. I have successfully fired a 4:1 ratio, but 3:1 seems like a better clay, and oil/water/glycerine for moldability/flexibility and limit cracking/drying too quickly.
I see you mentioned rice starch as the binder where can I get that and as I researched this rice starch they also call it flour is this true cam I use rice flour ?
i prefer methylcellulose as i like the consistency of the clay better, but i have sucessfully used rice starch. my understanding is that rice flour is not the same. i got rice floor from a bookbinding supply called McClain's. Again though i think you'd be happier with methylcellulose.
i have used rice starch successfully, but i did not like the consistency of the clay. i have only tried copper with it, but it should work with bronze.
+Alan Wiggins I'm curious, and it might be dangerous given that powdered aluminum is used in fireworks and other incendiary devices, but would aluminum metal clay be possible? I was just curious as aluminum is abundant and can be recycled and turned into a powder with commonly available household tools. It would be nice to use as a metal clay and then anodize it with different colors / patterns afterwards.
Me neither, did some more research and it looks like it has more to do with oxidation issues than anything else. Thought maybe some flux could be mixed into the clay to prevent this, but it looks like when it's sintered professionally, nitrogen, dissociated ammonia, or a vacuum is required for decent physical properties. Low melting point would actually be a plus for my use. Oh well, probably hard to do, but it was fun food for thought. Maybe if I was more ambitious / had better chemistry knowledge I'd look into it.
if one were to be able to obtain silver powder for a relatively reasonable price as compared to silver clay would the ratio of metal powder still be three to one of methyl cellulose?
Probably, but since i havn't done it i don't know for sure. Silver is more forgiving than base metals as it doesn't oxidize. Also, it could probably be torch fired and wouldn't need activated carbon and the two phase firing schedule.
Alan Wiggins Silver works fine with 3:1 by volume recipe. (ex. 3 tablespoons silver/ 1 tbsp MethylCell) 1 dash glycerine 2 dashes olive oil Distilled water with few drops essential lavender mixed in. Full ramp to 1650f/ 2 hrs.
Jenny Bayley Technic Minimum 25 ounces with a $65 processing fee if I remember correctly. Came out to something like $.65/gram vs >$2/gram for premade clay online. I think spot prices were near $16.5
Nice way of mistreating your little paragon ceramic chamber muffle. :) How long have you been using the kiln without having to replace the 300-400$ chamber muffle/elements ?
Hello, Alan! I searched, I think. the whole Amazon, but didn't find your Methyl cellulose binder. Wouldn't you be so kind as to put in response a code bar number? Thank you!
