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Honest LTO battery buying experience on AliExpress 

Записки электронщика-любителя
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LTO (Lithium Titanate Oxide) batteries have some huge advantages, for example, amazing longevity - more than 20000 cycles under normal conditions, i.e. not very high or very low temp, charge and discharge current not exceeding "normal" 0.5C for lithium batteries; extremely low internal resistance (fractions of a milliohm) and as a consequence extremely high working current output in the range of hundreds of amps; they have a much wider range of operational temperatures going to as low as -30 deg C retaining normal charging capability; they can be charged in just 6 minutes from 0% to 100%.
However, two of their main disadvantages are relatively low energy density (about 1.5-2 times less than LFP) and very high price.
I wanted to use the batteries for powering my computer from solar panels, so I'm currently playing around with technologies around that and selecting parameters for solar panels/batteries/controller/etc.
So, this is my honest experience of buying LiTiO4 batteries on AliExpress for a small solar generator. The purpose of this video is not to tell you the sob story of how I was essentially lied to and robbed but to prevent people from falling for the same trap.
Sorry for the subpar video quality for the most part. In the end, I realized that I recorded most of it using default camera settings which for some reason was something very bad - like 1280x720 10fps if I'm not mistaken... yeah, something THAT terrible. Luckily, almost all of it went into the time-lapses, so it didn't really make that big of a difference at the end of the day.
Couple more clarifications to the video. All tests were performed as follows: batteries were charged up to 2.5-2.6V and then discharged to about 1.9V. These numbers were chosen because the cells have just a couple percent of their capacity outside of this range, so it doesn't really make sense to pump them up to full 2.8V (or 16.8V for 6S configuration), for example. Besides, my inverter has OVP cut off at about 15.8V and UVP cut off at about 10V (and starts beeping at about 10.8V), so pumping cells up to a 2.8V effectively switches off my inverter together with the load (that's tested in reality :)). Thus, starting voltage for the tests was about 15.3V - 15.6V for the whole pack, and I cut off discharging manually at the voltage of 10.9V - 11V cause below that my inverter starts beeping very loudly and my kids were sleeping already during some of the tests, so I didn't want the inverter to go off and wake everyone up in the process. Besides, at that point battery doesn't have any usable capacity left anyway, so it just doesn't matter if I cut them off at 10V or 11V. The difference will be negligible.
I performed one more test that I have not recorded. That one was for a full 6S4P assembly - all the batteries I currently have. That test ended up yielding a surprisingly big capacity of 141Ah which is better than I would expect from 62 + 31 + 40 = 133Ah based on the tests performed in the video, but it still falls short of the advertised capacity. It calculates to about 33.5Ah per string of new batteries... but it still is far from 40Ah which they are labeled as.
And the store in the question is here: www.aliexpress...
I think they deserve to be widely known. What do you think?

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12 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 81   
@thelemoncuttingguy5127
@thelemoncuttingguy5127 2 года назад
Hi, This happens quite often when buying from aliexpress. The following usually happens to me: 1. Protection period ends. In this case I open a dispute and want a full refund. The seller can say whatever he wants but in the guidelines of Aliexpress you clearly have delivery by the date or full refund. So you just reject his proposal and aliexpress steps in. 2. The capacity is not as stated. In case its a little off I sometimes tend to ask for a discount and if its way off a full refund. I have supplied a charge and discharge full video that has been sped up. This is what aliexpress require. Once that is provided and you can clearly see that it isnt what you thought you are buying so then you can state your request and aliexpress approves. This usually takes longer but I have always got money back.
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
#2 is the way I went on with but it didn't work in my case. Ali just closed my claims with no explanation.
@richardzan4077
@richardzan4077 2 года назад
I have been doing tests on these batteries for 2 years. The problem that these batteries after charging up to 2.8V are quickly discharged automatically. In addition, each cells does not charge correctly. So at the moment of electronic calibration you will lose the total battery voltage. So, after a whole day of calibration, you need to recharge them again. I have batteries of the same company as you. I approach these batteries sold by individual Chinese shops are waste (bad somehow) from a large company - Yinlong. To buy good batteries, you need to apply directly to the manufacturer
@charleswhitehead7441
@charleswhitehead7441 2 года назад
Whether you are a proffesional or not, your tests are valid and well conducted. That's as good a test as any proffesional could do except perhaps a full on physics laboratory, and even then they wouldn't really learn much more. I'm alittle concerned about your trial adding 30Ah and 40Ah in the same bank. The problems af partial charge /discharge cycles msut also be apparent here as it is with lead acid cells. Perhaps better would be to keep the 40Ah as a separate reserve bank that cuts in at the point the lo batt alarm triggers, then disconnecting the 60Ah bank.
@DropTheHammer556
@DropTheHammer556 3 года назад
I can see this expert clearly knows what he's doing, but it's good that the human is helping him too.
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
Yeah, the human was just turning wrenches, all the thinking was done by the expert. :)
@me1ne
@me1ne Год назад
Thumbs up for electric installation supervisor cat :)
@charliefrancis6438
@charliefrancis6438 2 года назад
Just buy 30 amp hour cells and don’t over pay , i do appreciate the time and diligence you put into the video
@berberger4814
@berberger4814 Год назад
what do you do when you get the 25ah version then?
@elmotociclista9296
@elmotociclista9296 2 года назад
your cat enjoys working along with you! so does mine... hopefully he will learn some electronics
@neliosamch3195
@neliosamch3195 3 года назад
Thank I was thinking of buying some but not anymore.
@ralph72462
@ralph72462 Год назад
Your video was great. I been looking to but some of these LTO cells but the fact that they are not cheap and that this can happen very easily when buying from China has made me hold back on making a purchase. I find Alibaba complicated since I don't know if the people I am dealing with so far away are really reputable and I don't have money just to burn. I feel for your situation. Ouch!😮 Thank you for sharing this information. I subscribed to your channel and gave you a like.
@richardzan4077
@richardzan4077 2 года назад
So my information has already been confirmed, they sell category B batteries on the Aliexpress internet network. These are batteries with a high internal resistance and they discharge themselves very quickly
@ti3apache1
@ti3apache1 2 года назад
Very grateful for the demonstration. Swap out 2.7 3000 F Maxwell capacitors and you will see the difference. You will not believe the current they generate. Imagine a dam, fed by a river. The capacitors are the dam, the river is a group of solar panels. The download will be very slow and you will have the capacity for your inverter to spare. Muy agradecido por la demostracion. Cambie por capacitores Maxwell 2.7 3000 F y vera la diferencia. No creera la corriente que generan. Imagine una represa, alimentada por un rio. Los capacitores son la represa, el rio es un grupo de paneles solares. La descarga sera muy lenta y tendra capacidad para su inversor de sobra.
@GTrainRx7
@GTrainRx7 3 года назад
Interesting that you say that a "mixed in" 40Ah would have a different resting voltage. (keep in mind that I totally agree with your conclusion, just not one particular statement). My understanding is that is you had 7 30ah and 1 40ah cell, they would all end up at the same voltage. When the 30's dropped in voltage, the 40 would increase it's amp output (due to the load having a lower voltage level than the cell) and thus ended up being dragged down to the level of the rest. This would also mean the total amperage would reflect this (which it didn't), so your conclusion was still correct.
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
> When the 30's dropped in voltage, the 40 would increase it's amp output Well... almost. :) In reality - yes, 40Ah battery will be discharging just slightly faster, but the difference will not be as big as you'd think. So, when all 30Ah cells get discharged 40Ah will still retain a significant amount of energy even if a bit less than 10Ah which could be suggested by common sense math. :)
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
And btw, one cell in a string cannot "increase its amperage". It doesn't work like this. The current in a sequential circuit is the same in every point of the circuit. This is one of the most fundamental properties of sequential circuits. The reason for this phenomenon (faster discharge for a bigger battery) is slightly different, but I'm tired of typing by now, so sorry, won't delve into details on that. :) And due to the properties of Li-Ti batteries, it won't play a significant role in discharging cells with different capacities anyway.
@CloudybayTee
@CloudybayTee 2 года назад
For what i know, for new Yinlong LTO in China. 30AH ones USD 16 each 40AH ones USD 27 each
@gpsoftsk1
@gpsoftsk1 2 года назад
And where you can get them?
@transfermy4170
@transfermy4170 2 года назад
You got it as used or bad LTO battery for sure. thats why its cheap. Brand New Original Yinlong, direct factory price is $ 51 on Cylindrical LTO 40 Ah, and $36 on Prismatic 30 Ah pack.
@evronetwork
@evronetwork 2 года назад
Always put your findings in the feedback ...not doing it is bad for also other buyers and also it means that the sellers get to scam more people
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
I put in my happy (sigh with facepalm) feedback BEFORE I tested the cells, and now there seems to be no way to change or remove it... how convenient for the seller, huh? Anyway, it's on me, and it was incredibly stupid, so you can totally call me an idiot and will be right.
@bigdog1476
@bigdog1476 3 года назад
Those LTOs in 6 cell configuration should be close to 16.1 at rest after charging 2.8 per cell
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
Yup. However, in the description and in the video I explain why I didn't charge them up to that voltage but rather to just 15.6V. ;)
@Nightowl_IT
@Nightowl_IT 2 года назад
Which was the good store? Please share that link too. What is the name of the Ah counter and where can I get one?
@BobBasshead
@BobBasshead 2 года назад
This goes to show who can be trusted and who can't be trusted. I want to build a 80AH battery pack for my car stereo (around 3680 watts). In the car audio field there are about six "authorized" Yinlong dealers. Who can be trusted?
@oguzhankaraduman8187
@oguzhankaraduman8187 Год назад
What is the c value of the LTO66160H series= LTO66160= 66160H= 66160=
@clydehunter931
@clydehunter931 2 года назад
Hi, Can you update the link or just name the company? I'm getting a "Page under maintenance" and still have no way to dodge the bullet? I'm hoping my LTO order does not go to the company you found lacking in honesty and customer service. Rather than state which was the dodgy company, name the good ones you have found for the rest of us, and I'll do the same. After a couple of hundred transactions, this entire community will know which to trust and those to run from. But, thanks for the video, effort, and information, great work!
@tifogra689
@tifogra689 2 года назад
Thanks for the video!
@H3onnici
@H3onnici 2 года назад
Thanks for the Video, very simple but very informative. It really seems honest :) Did notice that the battery models between the old and new are not the same, 66160 vs 66160h. The 40Ah have an H at the back, the new ones dont. Did you check any datasheet to compare?
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
If the real capacity does not match what's stated on the package then the next question is what else doesn't match? :) So datasheets go out of the window :) We don't really know what's inside that packaging other than it's about 33Ah cells and it still looks like Li titanate...
@izzzzzz6
@izzzzzz6 Год назад
You are pulling 13A when 8A would be closer to 0.2C i would expect the rated mAh to be there at around 0.2C not 0.4C granted the originals are much better but it would be interesting to know the mAh at 0.2C to see if closer to 40Ah is possible. These are currently selling for €66 for 6 pieces. I would be happy to pay that for 30Ah cells so i don't know why they would bother faking and lying because at this price they could be making a half decent name for themselves. I bet new genuine ones are super expensive.
@bigdog1476
@bigdog1476 3 года назад
Also 1.8 is minimum nominal storage voltage
@jacobscoville2044
@jacobscoville2044 3 года назад
I like the 3D printed(?) design for the pack. Did you design it yourself or was it someone else’s design? Currently trying to figure a way to dampen some vibrations since my pack will be in my vehicle. Most of the examples I see are just metal which looks harmful over time
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
Yes, it's my own design, and yes, it's 3D printed. However, I don't think it'll be good enough for placing it in a car since it doesn't really prevent axial movement of the cells which is not really acceptable in a car. Also, I'd say it has more spacing between cells than is really needed. So, all in all - it works for me but it certainly is not ideal.
@EthanBecker-gq8ni
@EthanBecker-gq8ni 3 года назад
Thank you for sharing
@jirikuzmik8224
@jirikuzmik8224 3 года назад
I plan to buy 45Ah batteries, I want to ask from which store they sent batteries with the right capacity? Thank you
@FuyangLiu
@FuyangLiu 3 года назад
You should leave a low star review to the purchase so people can avoid buying from them :)
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
That's the problem. I was stupid enough to leave a review BEFORE I tested the batteries. And after I discovered this bummer I also discovered that I can't change my review and even leave additional feedback that is visible to anyone. So, now there's my 5-star review over there that I can't change or delete... Hooray to Ali for the user-friendly UI! :) But I actually think it's so bad on purpose...
@FuyangLiu
@FuyangLiu 3 года назад
@@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя That sounds sad 😅
@cerberusb4768
@cerberusb4768 2 года назад
Hey, what's the name of the second seller (I will make sure not to buy from them)?
@MahatmaMichael
@MahatmaMichael 3 года назад
Did you complain to Aliexpress for full refund of the order with pictures, video and all your measurements ?
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
I complained everywhere I could. Several times complaining and appealing to Ali didn't lead me anywhere at all. Just zero results. They seem to be willing to just brush it under the rug and pretend that nothing ever happened. I don't think the seller was even slapped on the wrist for that. The only option they offered is to pay to return them. Can you imagine paying anything extra for the stuff after such a disaster of a deal? So that's what I told them - heck, no, I'm not paying a cent more. Paypal essentially told me "just talk to them, we don't want to be dragged into this". And finally, Discover was the only one who seemed to take a look at least at some of this mess and reverted part of the whole transaction they were servicing (payment was split something like 60/40 between Paypal funds and Discover credit card). So at least I got part of my money back and I consider we're even at this point. But as a general note... Just take a good look at AliExpress's website UX and think. It's plain bad. Just some of the points: I can't change my feedback on that page which is eternally embarrassing me now since I left it before I tested batteries (it was a stupid move, I know) and it's all cheery and happy. I can't leave another feedback message, there just seems to be no way of doing it. I can't open a dispute because when I finally was able to test the batteries - and it's not really easy to charge and discharge almost 2kWh battery, so it's long by itself - I realized that it was too late to open a dispute. And from there it's incredibly hard to find where to complain about pretty much anything because the only three options for that "buyers protection" (or whatever they call it) are ridiculously out of touch with reality. I could understand if I bought some playing cards for couple bucks which turned out to be a bunch of pens on arrival - no one sane would complain about it, it's just not worth it. But these batteries cost very far from just couple bucks...
@MahatmaMichael
@MahatmaMichael 3 года назад
When this story took place? Was it recently, after disppearance of Jack Ma? By the way, where is he now? Do we know anything about his present faith? Is he alive at all? So, I understand you complained after buyer protection period, correct? I had one 100% money return for not working mini camera microscope I ordered via Aliexpress and another around 60% return for very poor quality white led arrays. In both cases I recorded evidence videos and sent it to Aliexpress.
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
@@MahatmaMichael Oh, I didn't know he disappeared... Anyway, this story took place from Oct 2020 till about Mar 2021. In this case, Ali and the seller just refused to acknowledge that there can be anything wrong with the batteries, so... since they think there's nothing wrong with the batteries then they don't have to offer me anything - that was essentially their position. Video doesn't matter. I take it that breaching our deal twice by the seller doesn't seem to bother them either.
@patrickmckowen2999
@patrickmckowen2999 3 года назад
Good story 👍 Been there done that. I purchased some regular Lipo - shit solder connections inside - Out 800$. Cheers
@jwalagaming1
@jwalagaming1 3 года назад
Nice👍
@doooofus
@doooofus 3 года назад
what balance board and wattmeter are those you are using, and do you recommend them?
@doooofus
@doooofus 2 года назад
please respond :(
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
Sorry, missed your comment. It's just some cheap stuff from Ali. There are tons of them there.
@youmella
@youmella 2 года назад
say which one store was that sale the genuine 40 AMP/H battery
@scottneels2628
@scottneels2628 2 года назад
How do the internal resistances accross the 40Ah cells compair to the 30Ah one?
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
Unfortunately, I don't have equipment for measuring it, although I was thinking about it. The meter you can see in the video in blue case is less than useless for that cause what it's telling is obvious grade A bs. I'm not even sure why they put such a function in there if they can't figure it out accurately, and I don't believe it's even possible at all the way this thing connects to the circuit.
@marktheunitedstatescitezen185
@marktheunitedstatescitezen185 2 года назад
Where did you buy those Battery Holders ? Please ?
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
I designed and 3d printed them myself.
@FuyangLiu
@FuyangLiu 3 года назад
May I ask where did you buy the plastic battery holders?
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
I designed and 3d printed them myself. Took me a couple of weeks cause there's a fairly good number of them. :)
@FuyangLiu
@FuyangLiu 3 года назад
@@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя That is nice to know. I guess you could actually sell them if you want as many of us don't have 3D printer at home 😬
@michaelroberts6299
@michaelroberts6299 2 года назад
Not everything has to be made of plastic use plywood and a whole saw!
@winkus8586
@winkus8586 3 года назад
bad trader will ruin the brand. yinlong need to deal with it
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
That's the thing. The batteries themselves are insanely good. I measured roundtrip charge-discharge efficiency being over 99%. They stay completely cold all the time because I just can't make them break a sweat, they are that powerful. Their longevity is somewhere beyond the horizon. But unfortunately that's often the sales people who ruin the whole picture...
@medeo9813
@medeo9813 Год назад
Где же тогда покупать?
@nacok9681
@nacok9681 2 года назад
hmmmm understand ☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️, thanks for saving our money, bro 😬😬😬
@nigelmunson9743
@nigelmunson9743 3 года назад
I was about to buy!!! no thanks, I'm off to a reliable suppler😒
@raktambara
@raktambara Год назад
ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kYx097cVR48.html at 12:45, it seems to be the same diagram, and he says it's what he came up with in his testing. It seems to me that you are assuming that the diagram is correct, and that it will apply to the batteries you bought. Have you tried charging them up to the full 2.8V? I have no idea, the diagram might be correct, and your batteries might act the same, but do you think it would be worth it to verify this?
@torsion9497
@torsion9497 2 года назад
No one sees similarities?? 2.3v LTO 30/40Ah "batteries" with Ultracapacitors for 2.7v 3000F :facepalm: Have some 2.7v/100F "caps", tested up-to 3.65v connecting to small motor gives 1.5A and acting as a battery, not like a cap, so which one is it really? Capacitor or a battery? :D
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
You'd be surprised - but no :) Super caps still have a way smaller energy density than pretty much any battery chemistry. I have a few 3300F supercaps for spot welder, they are roughly the same size as batteries in the video - and they are nowhere near those 40Ah in terms of energy amount stored. Also, caps don't care if you discharge them to 0. And although LiTi chemistry doesn't seem to suffer a lot if you do it to them - I'd definitely not recommend doing it.
@torsion9497
@torsion9497 2 года назад
@@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя Right, my point is what if they re-wrap used(out of order) LTO cells and sell them as capacitors? Brilliant isn't it? :D
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
@@torsion9497 Ah... didn't get it initially. :) Yeah, those would be... Idk, hypercapacitors? :)
@torsion9497
@torsion9497 2 года назад
@@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя wonder if renewing electrolyle in those 3kF things would revive them to LTO state :)
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
@@torsion9497 Not sure what kind of electrolyte could work that magic... maybe vodka?... what do you think?
@ledgendairy3056
@ledgendairy3056 3 года назад
SOme CGI there with the first batch of Batteries ...... busted
@bigdog1476
@bigdog1476 3 года назад
Always pay with paypal.... Moral of the story...
@Запискиэлектронщика-любителя
I did. However, that complaint got me nowhere...
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