*THIS IS SHARON BUTLER'S ARREST RECORD BY THE WAY* Yes, that Sharon. The one married to Larry Butler and employee of Darts Brokers. Can you believe they let her run the books there? Holy shit! To all that have a vested interest in American Darts: This message is going out to 13 people in NWDS, NAPDA, DARTSLIVE, and few other with vested interest. I would like a response of receipt else I will assume that the parties above didn't reveive it or do not care. Then I will find someone that does care. THIS INFORMATION IS PROVIDED AS IS, NOT TO DEFAME BUT WARN IN THE EVENT ANY OR ALL OF IT IS TRUE. ANY MAJOR CORPORATION DOES THIS WITH ITS MANAGEMENT, ESPECIALLY THOSE WITH FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY. I am not sure that someone with a record with BAD CHECKS, BAD CHECKS, THEFT, BANKRUPTIES, is the person I want representing American darts as you all have blindly allowed to happen. Having known the following information for many years and its negative impact on many, the latest information I heard brought me to this. I had heard recently that the DARTLIVE boxes in Dayton and surrounding area are registered under NWDS.LLC. This poses a huge question and after a small amount of effort to find out who real owners are, things must change in darts privately before they are made know publically. Given the facts of the past, I can see another major problem coming for tha American Dart scene..... We do not need a scandal or reporting that major participants of American Darts are felons if this be the case. The following information is only part of what can be found. This information can be at your own leisure. Possibly there is another Sharon Butler, married to a Lawrence or Larry, with the same birthday, and living in the same locations as the Sharon Butler of darts. Its time this all ends, perhaps banishing from darts, else you risk it all. This information hasn't been altered, what you see is a cut and paste. The following has been cut down so it can be seen easily. ************************************************************** First Name: Sharon Middle Initial: D Last Name: Butler Known Aliases: Sharon D Butler Sharon Butler Sharon D Butler Born: January 6, 1960 Age: 53 years old Sharon D Butler Born: January 6, 1960 Age: 53 years old Sharon Butler Born: January 6, 1960 Age: 53 years old Sharon D Kelly Born: January 6, 1960 Age: 53 years old Sharon Butter Born: January 6, 1960 Age: 53 years old Sharon D kelly Born: January 6, 1960 Age: 53 years old Sharon Holly Born: January 6, 1960 Age: 53 years old Sha D Kelly Sharon D Schwartz *** Criminal/trafficDefendant Info:Name: Sharon Butler DOB: January 6, 1960 Case Info:Source: OH MontgomeryCategory: Criminal/trafficCase Number: 1997 CR 01945 Case Type: Passing Bad Checks Offense Date: N/A.Defendant Info: *** Case Info:Source: OH Clark County Clark Municipal CourtCategory: Criminal/trafficCase Number: 1755322751 Case Type: DRUG ABUSE Offense Date: March 25, 1997.Criminal/trafficDefendant Info:Name: Sharon Butler DOB: January 6, 1960 *** Case Info:Source: OH Greene OH Common Pleas Category: Criminal/trafficCase Number: 2004 CR 0283 Case Type: THEFT Offense Date: June 9, 2004.Defendant Info: Name: Sharon ButlerDOB: January 6, 1960 *** Case Info:Source: OH Montgomery County Kettering Municipal CourtCategory: Criminal/trafficCase Number: 97CRA01247BUTSHA Case Type: FELONY - PASS BAD CHECKS Offense Date: July 22, 1997.... Criminal/trafficDefendant Info:Name: Sharon Butler DOB: January 6, 1960 *** Case Info:Source: OH Montgomery County Kettering Municipal CourtCategory: Criminal/trafficCase Number: 04CRB02102BUTSHA Case Type: KETTERING CITY INCOME TAX Offense Date: October 14, 2004. Criminal/trafficDefendant Info:Name: Sharon Butler DOB: January 6, 1960 *** NOTE THE TERM BANKRUPTSIES Case Info:Source: OH Greene County Xenia Municipal CourtCategory: Criminal/trafficCase Number: 81013872 Case Type: RULE 4 HEARINGOffense Date: April 2, 2006.... Bankruptcies CourtDateJudgeCase NumberChapterFilling TypeSelf RepresentedDayton, Oh Lawrence S Walter 1330464 7 IndividualNoAttorneys:Name: Phone: 5132416650 Debtors:Name: Sharon D Butler Details:Corporation: NoFiler Type: JointComments: Multiple Debtors.... LiensNameFiled ByDateAmountType Sharon Butler INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE 05/12/2009 Greene County Recorders Office: Greene, Oh $164257 FEDERAL TAX LIEN Sharon D Butler WORLDWIDE ASSET 04/30/2009 Greene County Muni Court- Fairborne: Greene, Oh $1606 CIVIL JUDGMENT Sharon Butler INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE 05/23/2008 Greene County Recorders Office: Greene, Oh $43560 FEDERAL TAX LIEN Sharon Butler INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE 03/28/2008 Greene County Recorders Office: Greene, Oh $138093 FEDERAL TAX LIEN Sharon Butler MIAMI VALLEY HOSPITA;L 07/05/2005 Greene County Muni Court- Fairborne: Greene, Oh $3660 CIVIL JUDGMENT Sharon D Butler VENTURE SERVICES 06/02/2004 Greene County Muni Court- Fairborne: Greene, Oh $602 SMALL CLAIMS JUDGMENT Sharon Butler SCHMITT HUELSMAN AUTO MALL 03/28/2002 Greene County Muni Court- Fairborne: Greene, Oh $116 SMALL CLAIMS JUDGMENT Larry Butler BARRY S GALEN 04/19/1999 Montgomery Municipal Dayton: Montgomery, Oh $5035 CIVIL JUDGMENT Larry T Butler AGGREGATE TECHNOLOGIES 12/18/1998 Montgomery Municipal Kettering: Montgomery, Oh $10498 CIVIL JUDGMENT RELEASE FAIRMONT PRESBYTERIAN 06/16/1998 Montgomery Municipal Kettering: Montgomery, Oh $10000 CIVIL JUDGMENT Sharon D Butler BUCKEYE CHECK CASHING 04/08/1998 Greene County Muni Court- Fairborne: Greene, Oh $2260 CIVIL JUDGMENT Sharon Butler CASHLAND INC 02/09/1998 Montgomery Municipal Dayton: Montgomery, Oh $2125 CIVIL JUDGMENT Larry Butler AMOS SUBURBAN NEWSPAPERS 07/18/1996 Montgomery Municipal Kettering: Montgomery, Oh $15452 CIVIL JUDGMENT Larry Butler BASSAM NAKFOUR 03/15/1996 Montgomery Municipal Larry Butler BASSAM NAKFOUR 03/15/1996 Montgomery Municipal Kettering: Montgomery, Oh $303 CIVIL JUDGMENT Larry Butler FRANK CARONE 05/20/1995 Montgomery Municipal Dayton: Montgomery, Oh $250 CIVIL JUDGMENT Sharon Butter RENT A CENTER 10/05/1993 Montgomery Municipal Dayton: Montgomery, Oh $376 SMALL CLAIMS JUDGMENT *** NEWSPAPAER Woman Charged With Corrupt Endeavor to Impede the Internal Revenue Laws On June 5, 2009, Sharon Butler was charged in Ohio with corruptly endeavoring to impede a U.S. employee who was acting in an official capacity under the authority of the Internal Revenue laws. [1] Butler fabricated a false IRS Release of Levy and forged the signature of an IRS Revenue Officer while serving as a bookkeeper for a drywall business. The fraudulent Release of Levy notified a construction company that all property, rights to property, money, credits and bank deposits of the drywall company were released from IRS levy. [2] [1] Source: Southern District of Ohio Information dated June 5, 2009. [2] Ibid. refund deposited into an account he controlled.
Same here man. In almost every other walk of life I'm as American as they come but when it comes to darts there is something seriously wrong here in the states. When I see companies doing things like I pointed out in this video it's just plain wrong no matter how ya slice it.
Darts corner in the UK has huge selection of darts and accessories. Very good prices and ship internationally. My bro buys loads from them and he lives in Iceland.
Absolutely ridiculous. I’m dumbfounded. I’ve been shopping a website you suggested to me a few years back and haven’t gone anywhere else since then. Thanks again for your great videos.
Just getting back into darts after 30 years. Was looking for a cheaper alternative to the Black Widows I use to throw. Anyone have a source for these in the video? The Amberjacks Im seeing now look nothing like these. I really like the shape of the barrel on them. Matter of fact,didnt they also have a smooth barrel? Would love to find an equivalent of them too.
I'll actually doing a review video of a set of the 23g Smooth ones next week sometime. They happen to be up for sale as well. They will be the Silver Widows. If you'd like to work something out feel free to let me know. But just so you know a lot has changed in 30 years. It turns out that darts are actually incredibly affordable. All these years we've been getting completely screwed by US dart shops. As you saw in this video the Widow darts were actually made and produced by a company in the UK prior to 2016 and sold in the UK for £13 ($16). All these years people were buying expensive Widows but they were nothing more than $16 darts. Anyway, we're now able to buy some super high quality darts from the UK for next to no money. Feel free to have a look at some of my recent videos. We can buy 95% tungsten darts for well under $30 nowadays. I'd really love to assist you with getting back into the game and tell you about everything that has changed. I think you'd be quite surprised. Please feel free to join us over on Reddit Darts Talk... old.reddit.com/r/DartsTalk/ in the daily threads for all things dart related. Friendly bunch over there. Mostly a bunch of us older guys that love darts but we definitely have a different prospective on things
@@WorldwideDarts Thank you for the reply! Surely a lot has changed since I last bounced out and stuck in the side wall. For sure I would love to buy the smooth 23g real black widows :^) I will email you and can send funds when you want. I am in Chicago. Never really knew what reddit was for but I will sign up and check it out. Thanks again for welcoming me back,gonna be nice to start throwing again.
I recently purchased a set of black widow 20 gram soft tip darts from this website! Iv had them one day and then seen these comments. They are front weighted and throw diffrent then my bottelsen skinnys. Any suggestions on a medium length, center weighted dart barrel? Thanks and shoot well
Hi, thanks for your comment. Good news is, if you bought the darts recently then they are in fact made in the USA. Anything after 2016 is US made. Anything prior is not. But if you're talking about Laserdarts and Bottelsen I take it you're not aware of Darts Corner yet? I've been buying most all my darts and dart supplies from the UK since 2002. Once you start looking at their site you'll quickly realize why. Also, this is why my channel exist today. My main goal is to make American players aware that we've been getting ripped off for decades when it comes to darts. Just remember that great darts are actually super affordable which is the complete opposite of what US dart shops will have you believe. See, here in the states they try to get everyone to think that the more they spend = the better the darts are. That is 100% NOT true. Once you start looking at Darts Corner you'll see that they have awesome 90% - 95% tungsten darts that cost under $20. They have other incredible darts like Designa that cost anywhere from $17 to around $30 that are just as nice as ANY darts on the market. In fact, have a look at my recent Designa Patriot X video. Those things cost $21usd!! Darts Corner also has a bunch of Unicorn Golden soft tip darts on sale for under $20. These darts used to cost upwards of $70 back in the day. You'll also notice that most all Harrows darts cost about 1/2 of what they do here in the states. Same goes for stems and flights. The difference in cost is shocking. Have a look for yourself and let me know if you have any questions 👍
I LOVE Red Dragon. They make some incredible darts at affordable prices. In fact my favorite dart company is Nodor who happens to own both Winmau and Red Dragon. All their darts are incredible. 👍
Theres absolutely nothing wrong with the darts or red dragon/winmau/nodor company. Its about the dishonesty of america in general and what people get away with here, doing things just like this to unsuspecting people that believe in or want to believe in others. Take a great thing like darts that here in the US should be built up by darts shops etc. But instead it brings down the whole thing and in the end, the love of the game. All due to con/rip-off artists.
The Red Dragon's ARE the Horizon Darts. Same darts. Red Dragon produced the $16 darts for Horizon. But yes, they also made the movable point ones. Horizon totally ripped off their customers. Sorry to see you overpaid by a little bit there 😂
I had a set of Black Widow soft tips about 10 years ago. I lost them when I moved and was thinking of getting another set. They threw great for me and felt great in my hand but I'll look for another set instead of supporting Laser Darts.
Sadly enough, 10 years ago you were sold a set of "American Made" Widows but since it was BEFORE 2016 they weren't American made at all. You were deceived which I'm sorry to hear. Have a look at all my other videos. Great darts DO NOT have to cost a lot of money. This is one of the greatest myths in the USA and it's 100% the blame of US dart shops. Seriously, look at my other videos and you'll see that awesome darts are extremely affordable. Have a look at some of these soft tips... www.dartscorner.co.uk/index.php?currency=USD&cPath=282_822&osCsid=8163b3e5b5acfd962c97614a25d56a3c or even check out these Harrows Aura darts on sale for $40... www.dartscorner.co.uk/index.php?cPath=282_824_1632 You might see that it says $48 but that includes VAT which is a UK tax that we DO NOT pay.
New to your channel, I really appreciate your reviews! Wow, I have three sets of Black Widows that all have the made in America sticker on the case, a 28g set I got in the 90s with the older case with the cool Black Widow logo on it, a 26g set gifted to me in 2017, and a 20g set I just purchased myself (argh yes for wayyyy too much). I was willing to pay the price because of how comfortable the grip is for me. Sadly I'm not shocked or surprised at Horizon Darts behavior. Please please update if you run across the Amberjacks again, great find.
Thank you so much for the comment. If you've seen any of my other video you might be finding out that price has absolutely nothing to do with how "good" a dart is. That's the complete opposite of what US dart shops want the customer to think though. And to be fair, a lot of American players think that more expensive = better. That's FAR from the truth though. Please have a read of this article that helps explain more in depth as to why prices are so out of line here in the states... www.howtomasterdarts.com/2018/03/darts-retail-in-us-savvy-business-model.html?m=1 What really kills me is that the Widows were selling for $16usd in the UK but Horizon felt the need to sell them $100 or more. Complete dishonesty towards their customers. Thank again for the comment. 👍
@@WorldwideDarts Interesting article, I'm definitely a huge customer of Darts Corner and swear by them to all my friends. And I am definitely planning an angry letter to Horizon. Shoot well!
Wow that's shocking that's why you should always shop about first to try get the cheapest price and how do I get the 4 pack from Amazon is there a link you have please
Never owned laser darts. Never could get used to the grip. I have thrown them out of curiosity. I will never pay that much for darts. Most times I'll buy the not so popular brand and they throw just fine. Currently throw in the datadart 21g orion and love them. Thanks for this info.
Lots of darts companies chop and change. I've had darts from Designa which were end of line Winmau ones, Unicorn ones sold by red dragon with the logo changed and all that type of thing. It's part of the industry, as lines and production runs change, people think they can sell them and market them as their own. It's a damn sight cheaper than making and creating your own darts production line from scratch. Red Dragon are big in the UK, Peter Wright plays with them as do many pro's, and the quality is always high. There's a line of the old run of Amberjacks at the moment being sold by another company (might be Bulls, I cant remember, I saw it the other day) but the price is still pretty much what the original run of amberjacks were. (I know this because I own some from a few years ago). That being said, inflating the price by 5 or 6 times just for the sake of shipping them to the US is absurd and just a blatant rip-off. I dont mind buying end of line or darts that have been re-marketed, but dont try and screw someone on the price, thats just obscene.
Not sure if you're aware but Nodor, Winmau and Red Dragon are all the same company. Nodor owns both Winmau and RD. Nodor produces quite a few of the darts for different brands. For example, the Designa darts are mostly made by Nodor. Also a lot of the old Red Dragon darts are simply renamed and sold under a different name elsewhere. But ALL those companies make super high quality darts for sure.
@@WorldwideDarts Thats it, Nodor is another one I was thinking of. I guess its just how the industry works, but charging customers in the US that much money for darts we can buy for a few pounds over here is just outright terrible!
I'd assume that in late 2016 horizon darts bought licenses to produce and distribute the red dragon amberjacks themselves (under their own name), rather then importing them all the time from the UK, which can make sense for a multitude of reasons. I could then see how it would make sense that they charge a little bit more then RD themselves due to licensing fees and a margin of profit... But more then a hundert bucks for darts that you can potentially get for free when ordering a red dragon darts board seems bonkers to me
Especially when just yesterday and today there have been now TWO people to post their silver and black Widows that they bought for $6 per set through the Red Dragon value packs. Another guy posted after I made this video. He scored himself the Black Widows along with 3 other killer sets. All for an amazing $25. 😂 But a really huge issue is that just about every single Widow owner thinks they have "American made" darts and that justifies their price. Fact is, as stated on the Horizon website, the darts haven't been American made in quite some time and only as of Feb 2016 have things changed. Also, just because they started making them in the USA in 2016 doesn't mean that all the current darts in the shops are those darts. I'm sure there's a TON of older stock being passed off as "American made" and that is 100% false advertising.
Not surprised, darts here are a complete scam. I've been ordering from the UK for years now. For my last set of darts I went to dartbrokers, (I used to live in IL) and spent about two hours trying different sets out. The set I was comfortable with were priced at $95!!! Found the same darts at dartscorner for 16 US dollars!!! I bought darts, shafts and flights for under 30.
Ouch! It's nice that you could try out darts and that service is definitely worth something but that markup is WAY out of line. I'm all for making money but not at the expensive of screwing over someone.
Another thing I think that says it all is try getting them amberjack darts how long was it after this vid did they stop selling them ya can get the other amberjacks but not the amberjack ...? What number was they ta WW
@@WorldwideDarts yes mate but what number was they hence amberjack 18 ect. Or was they just amberjack..iff ya know what I mean .I can't find sod all about them apart from your internet posts from the past not even images ..soooo was they amberjack or amberjack 1 lol 👍🎯 have a nice weekend
@@Adrian-ql3co Oh.... I understand now. This is the original listing. It just says Amberjacks... ibb.co/4mY8cT2 Makes me wish I bought 50 sets of each weight at $16. I would have made $1000's of dollars
@@WorldwideDarts well amberjack spiders are now rare less ov them than the widows can still buy a £113 but my friend try to buy a rare as rocking horse shit amberjack muhahaha was £16 now £180 just look at the lovely knurleg on them amberjack lol 👍.....joke ...ya should do a vid on how rare amberjack are lol
I gotta say, watching this really feels like a truth busting Expose, good research finds facts. There's a few people with some egg on their face, more relevant a company with what appears to be way over priced products. But it is a free open market. So the moral of the story is truly do you research.
Great video! I’m constantly trying new darts by purchasing from Darts Corner UK, because the prices make it easy to justify trying out different models. I played darts back in 1980-83 in college. During that time period, there was a metallurgical company out of Chicago named Fansteel that made darts. They were pretty expensive as I recall. I don’t think they are in business today. I also have some darts from Accudart from that time period that I believe were made in the USA. It would be cool if you could do a follow up to this video where you list and describe the current US dart manufacturers- if there are any left.
Thanks Ed. Man, I LOVE some vintage Accudarts. Voks is still around making darts. They're based out of Florida. But their tungsten comes from the same places that everyone else gets it. There's nothing magical or higher quality about US made darts but I suppose it's nice having a US made product. Although the prices make it completely out of reason imo. Why spend $100+ on a set of darts when there are plenty of equally good darts elsewhere for $20. It must have been quite a surprise when you discovered Darts Corner wasn't it? I still vividly remember the day (2002) my older friend showed me a Tommy's catalog from the UK and I was looking at the prices thinking "this can't be right!" I was just your typical American player that thought good darts HAVE to cost a lot. I couldn't have been more wrong. Luckily people such as yourself and many others are now finding out that great darts are extremely affordable. Recently many of us have been paying $6 per set for the random Red Dragon darts. Some amazing darts are showing up in those 4 packs.
Lol, yeah I ordered a random 4 pack from Amazon Spain like you did. I’m waiting to see what I get. I may look like a generous Dart Santa when I give some sets to guys on my dart team 👍🏻😎🎯
@@edgillis4686 Awesome! Not sure if you've been keeping an eye on Reddit darts but some of the 4 packs showing up are way too good to be true! A guy today got a vintage set of Harrows Powerpoints as well as a set of RD produced Laserdart Silver Widow with the spider logo.
Your videos are very helpful and I'm appreciative for what you do. Fortunately I have the USA made black widow. I find it shameful for the company to lead people on. Keep up the great videos 👍
@@johnbrackettii9468 It seems like they've been less than honest with their customers. But as you saw right on their very own website... if you bought them prior to 2016 there's a strong chance they aren't US made. I hate to say that but that's according to them, not me. Would have been nice if they informed others about that. Unfortunately I have a Part II follow up video and it's worse than this one
It’s quite an eye opener to see a company deceive its customers to such an extent by charging ridiculous amounts for a set of darts, you wouldn’t begrudge them making a little profit but that is ludicrous. hopefully enough people will see this and shop elsewhere, great work WWD
I would imagine at some point they were but I honestly have no idea. All I know is that everyone who owns Widows thinks that they have 'American made" darts. Honestly, every debate/argument I've had with anyone about these darts it's the first thing that comes up. "You keep your crap overseas made darts because my American made Widows are quality". Well as stated by Horizon in Feb 2016... " *Laserdarts is once again a US made dart. After many years, production was brought back to the states"* it appears that they weren't US made for quite some time.
@@WorldwideDartsThank you for replying. I wonder how that attitude came about? I know that us Americans can definitely become too prideful about certain things, but man how obvious can it be? USA darts have never risen to the level of play that the UK/Euro leagues have demonstrated over the decades. I guess all those masters had no idea they were throwing inferior darts this whole time. Thanks for the great content Worldwide, it certainly is needed.
Thanks John. Another interesting note is that a few months ago there were a couple of us that researched the darts that the top 32 PDC professionals use and figured out their average cost. The average cost of a top 32 PDC players dart is/was $46usd. That included the likes of the super expensive Gary Anderson Noir darts as well as the crazy expensive Justin Pipe Cosmo darts. So imagine that. If the best players in the world use a $46 dart then why do Americans feel that a more expensive dart is "better"? Also, the top 4 players in he world use a dart that cost less than $40usd on average. And that's one of the main goals here on this channel. I continue to show everyone that darts are actually an extremely affordably hobby. Dirt cheap.
@@WorldwideDarts Those are some stunning figures. Thanks to you I was able to hone in which darts suit me best without breaking the bank. My brother and I have been experimenting with Designa darts this year. Throwing the 24 gram Spectre darts lead me to my current match setup, 23 gram Gary Anderson DNA's with 30 mm Nanogrip points, and L-Style carbon stems. Such a relief to have a good idea about what you are getting into before you drop cash on a more expensive dart. Granted I still got a sweet deal on my DNA's through Darts Corner, landed in the States with the described setup for under 100 dollars. You are so right, people need to know how much fun they can have playing darts, without worrying about spending a ton of money to get started. Thanks again Worldwide, keep them coming.
@@johnturnbull6447 I appreciate the comments. Designa makes so many incredible darts. I also think more people would like Designa if they knew that Nodor made most of them. Nodor/Winmau/Red Dragon all the same company so you know the darts are 100% quality made. Back on track today with a Harrows point review. A MUCH more positive video lol. All the best John 👍
I've seen the price the us shops sell darts for a few times and I've always been blown away by the prices. Over here in the uk we can buy darts and accessories from pretty much anywhere hell I only live about 3 miles from Darts Corner I've been in there quite a few times and had darts repointed while you wait.
@@WorldwideDarts well just checked on maps and it's actually 5 miles but still very close haha. It's not like a normal shop looks like a warehouse you go in and order with the product codes and they bring them to you. They do have some stuff on display. A180 is another fantastic dart shop where you can try before you buy too and it frequented by lots of pros so you do have the chance to bump into pros when you go there.
Cheers Zac 👍🏻 edit... I also noticed that they've gone and deleted the webpage where they said the darts are now being made in the USA. They also deleted the other page as well showing the 2015 catalog. That's telling!
That is truly a scam. Its such a shame to see the state of American darts as it is. The nation should be glad you exist for the American darts scene that needs a lot of growth to really make a dent in the world.
WWD did you happen to see Neil Burkens review of Red Dragon Laser Black Widows darts back in 2011. back then I was going to buy a set but would not sell out side England, guess deal with Horizon.
I have the link posted down below. But you're correct, they wouldn't sell them out of the UK because Horizon had exclusive distribution rights in the USA. It's absolutely mind blowing that they were selling for £13 ($16usd) in the UK but over $100 in the USA. Complete and total rip off! It's a shame that Horizon felt the need to jack the price up so high on American dart players that didn't know any better.
Hello, I love your content and I'm always impressed how you fight for better darts prizes in the us for your americans (I'm from europe and I would hate to have to pay so much for darts equipment, cause in my opinion it is one of the beauty things, that darts isn't expensive - so people come together). BUT: I know all the videos from Neil Birkin, and if he wrote "Laserdarts Black Widow 5 from Red Dragon" it only means, that he ordered them in the Red Dragon Shop. Red Dragon mostly sells their own darts/equipment but also winmau (obv - nodor too), harrows flights and stems, MVG stuff from Master Darts (now XQMax) and some other companies ...
Here's a few of the 4 packs from Red Dragon. All have a set of Laserdarts Widows. Best part is... they paid $6usd for their sets 😂😂 imgur.com/a/iDoGUKz
I have been using Gold Widow darts for 20 years and I am still using my original set . Horizon Darts customer service has been nothing but exemplary in all dealings with me. My original set of Gold Widows were purchased about 23 years ago and say right on the case made in the USA, my second set from 2010 also clearly state made in the USA. I just ordered a set of Black Widows. What other dart manufacturer offers a lifetime warranty. My Daytona Fire darts were more expensive the my Widows and my Widows still remain my best dart. I thing that before you go and slam a great quality product with a life time warranty and customer service second to none, perhaps you should actually see the darts first hand, throw them first and maybe even give someone from Horizon a chance to actually respond to your concerns before posting this kind of bs.
This is the typical kind of response I expect from Widows owners trying to defend this BS. It's a TUNGSTEN dart, how quickly do you think they're going to wear out? It's the most basic darts ever made and there's nothing to wear out. Of course a LaserDart is going to last for decades. Like you said, you've been using your gold widows for 20 years. At the price of $16 per set I could buy about 9 sets from the UK and if each set last 20 years I'd be good for the next 180 years lol. I'm sure the customer service is great. It should be for how much they're screwing everyone over. But guess what? Red Dragon also has some of the best customer service in the world. They also sell incredibly high quality and affordable darts at teh same time. Horizon could take lessons. Oh, and the reason your Daytona Fires were more expensive than the Widows is because YOU bought them from an American shop. You could have bought them from the UK and saved about $80. It's not my fault that you enjoy spending WAY more than you need to on darts. Dude, you were taken to the cleaners and don't even realize it. That's the sad part.
@@stewartgrinder8490 Right. And that's why I stuck with showing facts for this video. Many players out there think they have $114 American made darts. Nope. All they really have are $16 Red Dragon darts. Those facts tend to trigger Widow owners.
Doesn’t make any difference to me. I paid 90.00 for my original Widows which equates to just over 3.00 per year. And if one should crack or break I’ve got a lifetime warranty. And more importantly I throw them well. So I’d happily buy another set, which I have. And it’s nice to claim you have the facts but I can buy a pair of Oakley sunglasses that are a top quality knock of for a 10th of the price. Just sayin....I’ll wait to see the response from Horizon which I have been told is coming. Cheers!
$90 20 years ago is equal to $137 now. If these darts are so well made then why do you even need a lifetime warranty? Seems a bit redundant doesn't it? And who on earth is breaking darts all the time? And you do realize what it said right on the Horizon website right? That's fact that these weren't US made for the longest time. Red Dragon made the darts. That's NOT debatable here. Dude, I get it. I'd be mad too if I found out an expensive item I owned only cost $16. 😂
I’m planning on buying my four pack from Red Dragon soon and as long as I don’t get any crappy widow set I’ll be happy. Those knurled barrels are U G L Y ! ! !
Thanks for posting. Never could find an American darts company I liked. If you can wait 10 days English companies are happy to send you a set of darts to the US for 20 bucks.
You're welcome. I used to be a huge fan of Accudart back in the day. I search eBay for the vintage sets. Sadly we have companies like the ones in this video who do nothing but take advantage of their customers and sell them $16 darts for well north of $100
Think the owners of those so called American made darts are extremely upset knowing that the wool has been pulled over their eyes. American companies charge so much more for darts than in the UK and you advise people to look on UK dart company websites, normally the UK charge over the odds for things but the US are worse at it
Have a look at this American shop... www.dartworld.com/steel-tip-darts/piranha-tungsten-steel-tip-darts.html They're charging over $80usd for the most basic darts you could buy. You can buy similar dart to these from the UK for $20. The darting companies here don't have much to offer their customers except darts like this. Absolutely terrible!
Hi Alan, I've tried to discuss this with them and the conversation turned sour REALLY quick no matter how nice I tried to be. I just wanted some answers to a few simple questions. They were unbelievably rude.
@@peterhaugen1893 NOBODY is claiming they weren't made in the USA after 2016. Do you even pay attention in the slightest bit? Prior to Feb 2016 they WERE NOT made in the USA. It says that right on their site. That's the issue here. Horizon failed to mention that to their customers and did nothing more than sell $16 darts for well north of $100. You couldn't possibly be more wrong here. Please for the love of god pay attention before commenting.
@@WorldwideDarts thank you for making your claims slightly more clear since it hasn't been clear in your videos. I just have the feeling this is more of a personal vendetta you have against them.
@@peterhaugen1893 Why would I have a personal vendetta against them? The entire theme and main point of my channel is to try to HELP out as many American players as I can by helping them discover that awesome darts are actually incredibly affordable. I take pride in that. Many American players are under the assumption that great darts have to cost a lot of money. As I show on my channel that's simply not true at all. But yes, it bothers me very much that this fella from Horizon failed to mention to anyone that the dart are in fact NOT American made prior to Feb 2016. In his reply he makes it quite clear that the overseas made darts are junk right? Well did he lower the price of his overseas made Laserdarts? Nope. He charged his customers the same ole prices and even worse, never informed them that they were indeed NOT US made. Here's another fact.... Have a look at this 2015 Horizon catalog. Page 26-27... horizondarts.com/developer/catalog/mobile/index.html#p=26 It clearly states that the Laserdarts are US made. It's right there in big red lettering. That contradicts his Feb 2016 post clear as day. This guy has been lying to his customers for years and charging them over $100 for nothing more than $16 darts. So yes, that bothers me and it SHOULD bother you too. As well as everyone else who supports this guy.
@@WorldwideDarts I just checked out darts corner, looks like price is listed as pounds instead of USD..... but I’ll definitely check out eBay next time , they have good looking dart sets for like $15
@@ArcheryRuleZ There's a tab to change it to $$$ in the top right corner. I've been ordering from UK dart shops since 2002. The prices are WAY cheaper compared to American dart shops. Not even in the same universe to be honest.
@@WorldwideDarts one more question please, what do they charge to ship to USA? Looks like they want all my info and phone number before I can find out. THANKS!! The website looks awesome
@@ArcheryRuleZ Darts Corner? Usually it's about $4 - $5 depending on what you order. I placed an order a couple weeks ago for 2 sets of darts plus about 20 sets of flights and shipping was $4.02 i.imgur.com/wu1p3sp.png
It's the same damn thing with A-Z darts! So many people I meet order from there, and I'm like you do realize if you get on A180.co.uk you can find the exact same darts for a 1\4, 1\3, to 1\2 THE PRICE LESS??? I don't buy shit here in the states, unless it's shafts, or flights from a local dart store, and that's only if I am desperate for replacements before a blind draw etc! I've ordered from Red Dragon, Dartscorner.uk and A180.co.uk and the prices are all fair but in my opinion going with A180 you simply CANNOT beat! USA Dart companies rip people off because people have no idea the true market price for darts! But if you take a look at what they go for in Europe, we get completely bent over! **** that! I always order from over seas!
100% agree. We've definitely been being taken advantage of here in the states for decades. Luckily with internet and quick international shipping it's now a HUGE buyers market. I would never give these US shops another red cent until they stop being so greedy. Good darts should NOT be expensive. In fact they're quite affordable as we both know 👍
I just started playing and bought some cheaper darts to begin playing. I had my eye on the Black Widows for some of the reasons (made in USA, good warranty, etc) and pulled the trigger and splurged on a set. Hopefully, these are made in the USA to blunt the fact I paid good money for them. I guess I learned my expensive lesson.
I wish you would have found this channel sooner. Sorry to say but you just got taken to the cleaners. Those are $16 darts that you probably paid over $100 for. In the future check out Darts Corner and their Designa darts or even the Darts Corner brand. Plenty of reviews on this channel featuring $20 darts. Long story short... price has absolutely NOTHING to do with how "good" the darts are. Have a read of this article explaining more... www.howtomasterdarts.com/2018/03/darts-retail-in-us-savvy-business-model.html?m=1 Also have a look here to a new player that just discovered UK dart shops the other day... old.reddit.com/r/Darts/comments/iq5ze2/usa_vs_uk_prices/
@@WorldwideDarts I just read the article you sent me and I guess I am off to the UK shops now. All things being said, I wish I knew at least if the Widows I bought BWWD (Before World Wide Darts) were made in the USA. At least I could say that about them. I was kind of wondering why the dart shop in Orange County where I live sells darts for the same price as some yahoo near Palm Springs. It's the same for billiards which I am very familiar with and don't buy cues for thousands of dollars. thanks for the help.
@@danielkutch8910 If your darts are new then most likely they were made in the USA. But there's no telling if they sat around the shop for years before being sold. All Widows produced BEFORE Feb 2016 are not US made even though they claimed they were. Those SAME EXACT Widows were being sold in the UK for £13 or about $16usd at the time. To make things worse for you... last year they were selling 4 packs of darts from the UK for $24. Those 4 packs included Widows. So we were paying a whopping $6 for them! Have a look at some of the 4 packs.... imgur.com/9G3sAhn imgur.com/pTESfpO imgur.com/5zvnvH5 imgur.com/ZWKfQUe imgur.com/AFxstja imgur.com/do8cdHQ imgur.com/LidHsiO imgur.com/vq2foQ2 Unreal right! 😲😲
@@WorldwideDarts I just went to DartsCorner and thought I would start crying. I saw the Bolides you mentioned in a video for half of what I saw them on another site. The other site wanted $100 and you just get the set of three darts. I can buy two sets for the price and have change to spare. Unbelievable.
@@danielkutch8910 Also keep in mind that when you log in and create an account the sales prices drop even lower. Being in the USA we DO NOT pay VAT. That's a UK only tax. So the deals get even better especially when looking at sales items 😂
Just brought 2 sets one was these second hand flights ect for £10 lol now I have some rd silver widows striped paint ...But I have noticed that these amberjack darts are rare now none on eBay ect do you think rd was found out and fek better stop selling them .......old vid but good the reason I brought them thanks WW
It was a shame they lied to their customers for years and got away with it. They were selling nothing more than $20 darts and jacking the price up to over $100 on unsuspecting customers. On top of that they even lied about where their darts were being made. Certainly not in the USA
errr folks all companies outsource over seas. Car manufacturers do a large part of "made in america" cars over seas. Black widow darts were around over 40 years ago when I started shooting. They were some of the best on the market. My real question is if you are able to win with them if they feel good in your hands, then who cares were they were made? As far as dragon selling the same item less? think generic drugs, non name brand . Should they have changed their advertising? yup...have they moved to fix this and other issues? I do not know. I do know they are an american company. This alone makes me want to hear what they have to say and give them the benefit of the doubt. As that over seas Company clearly kept their tooling and made and sold it under another name. I would think that Horizon may have a serious lawsuit on their hands. Would not be the first time a patent or copyright was infringed on.
See, this is a great comment. But let's be honest here, they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. There is no getting around the facts here. Have a look... This is from their very own site. Laserdarts are NOW made in the USA as of Feb 2016.... www.horizondarts.com/blog/back-in-the-usa.html If that's the case why were they advertising that they were US made BEFORE that date? horizondarts.com/developer/catalog/mobile/index.html#p=26 That's a catalog that came out in 2015 and it clearly states "Made in the USA". Older catalogs state that as well. So he was clearly selling $16 overseas darts for full US made Laserdarts prices. There is no denying that as his very own words show that. Also, he claims that overseas darts are well below standard but he didn't have any problems selling them for well north of $100+ without telling the customers what they were really buying. Also... Red Dragon aren't selling the same thing. They are the ones actually making the Laserdarts for Horizon darts. They AREN'T copying the idea, they ARE the makers of Laserdarts for quite a few years. Again, Horizon failed to tell anyone about this and claimed they were US made. Fact is, according to Horizon, Laserdarts were NOT made in the USA prior to 2016. How far back? We don't know. But it say "many years". That's more than just a few years to be fair. He lied to his customers at the least. And most likely broke some sort of laws in the process.
I'll tell you right now I just don't trust these dart companies in the US people can get pissed all they want about what I'm going to say bottom line my money goes to the UK because the dart companies in this country made my money go to the UK and it's not so much that I'm looking for a bargain I'm just looking not to get bent over!!!! thanks worldwide👍✌🎄🎅
Well said Andy! To be honest I'd much rather keep my money right here in the states. But when we have shops like Horizon trying to milk us for $114 for Silver Widow darts that actually cost $16 then that's a HUGE issue. To be honest I'd never buy these darts in a 1000 lifetimes but the point remains the same. I could deal without getting screwed from ALL the US companies. As you're well aware, great darts are actually incredibly affordable. 👍
I just feel bad for all the players that own these darts and bought them because they thought they were "American made" and therefor worth the cost. Bit of a punch to the gut finding out differently.
That's rich coming from her. Here's her arrest record by the way. Multiple felonies. Feel free to copy and paste and let her know... To all that have a vested interest in American Darts: This message is going out to 13 people in NWDS, NAPDA, DARTSLIVE, and few other with vested interest. I would like a response of receipt else I will assume that the parties above didn't reveive it or do not care. Then I will find someone that does care. THIS INFORMATION IS PROVIDED AS IS, NOT TO DEFAME BUT WARN IN THE EVENT ANY OR ALL OF IT IS TRUE. ANY MAJOR CORPORATION DOES THIS WITH ITS MANAGEMENT, ESPECIALLY THOSE WITH FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY. I am not sure that someone with a record with BAD CHECKS, BAD CHECKS, THEFT, BANKRUPTIES, is the person I want representing American darts as you all have blindly allowed to happen. Having known the following information for many years and its negative impact on many, the latest information I heard brought me to this. I had heard recently that the DARTLIVE boxes in Dayton and surrounding area are registered under NWDS.LLC. This poses a huge question and after a small amount of effort to find out who real owners are, things must change in darts privately before they are made know publically. Given the facts of the past, I can see another major problem coming for tha American Dart scene..... We do not need a scandal or reporting that major participants of American Darts are felons if this be the case. The following information is only part of what can be found. This information can be at your own leisure. Possibly there is another Sharon Butler, married to a Lawrence or Larry, with the same birthday, and living in the same locations as the Sharon Butler of darts. Its time this all ends, perhaps banishing from darts, else you risk it all. This information hasn't been altered, what you see is a cut and paste. The following has been cut down so it can be seen easily. ************************************************************** First Name: Sharon Middle Initial: D Last Name: Butler Known Aliases: Sharon D Butler Sharon Butler Sharon D Butler Born: January 6, 1960 Age: 53 years old Sharon D Butler Born: January 6, 1960 Age: 53 years old Sharon Butler Born: January 6, 1960 Age: 53 years old Sharon D Kelly Born: January 6, 1960 Age: 53 years old Sharon Butter Born: January 6, 1960 Age: 53 years old Sharon D kelly Born: January 6, 1960 Age: 53 years old Sharon Holly Born: January 6, 1960 Age: 53 years old Sha D Kelly Sharon D Schwartz *** Criminal/trafficDefendant Info:Name: Sharon Butler DOB: January 6, 1960 Case Info:Source: OH MontgomeryCategory: Criminal/trafficCase Number: 1997 CR 01945 Case Type: Passing Bad Checks Offense Date: N/A.Defendant Info: *** Case Info:Source: OH Clark County Clark Municipal CourtCategory: Criminal/trafficCase Number: 1755322751 Case Type: DRUG ABUSE Offense Date: March 25, 1997.Criminal/trafficDefendant Info:Name: Sharon Butler DOB: January 6, 1960 *** Case Info:Source: OH Greene OH Common Pleas Category: Criminal/trafficCase Number: 2004 CR 0283 Case Type: THEFT Offense Date: June 9, 2004.Defendant Info: Name: Sharon ButlerDOB: January 6, 1960 *** Case Info:Source: OH Montgomery County Kettering Municipal CourtCategory: Criminal/trafficCase Number: 97CRA01247BUTSHA Case Type: FELONY - PASS BAD CHECKS Offense Date: July 22, 1997.... Criminal/trafficDefendant Info:Name: Sharon Butler DOB: January 6, 1960 *** Case Info:Source: OH Montgomery County Kettering Municipal CourtCategory: Criminal/trafficCase Number: 04CRB02102BUTSHA Case Type: KETTERING CITY INCOME TAX Offense Date: October 14, 2004. Criminal/trafficDefendant Info:Name: Sharon Butler DOB: January 6, 1960 *** NOTE THE TERM BANKRUPTSIES Case Info:Source: OH Greene County Xenia Municipal CourtCategory: Criminal/trafficCase Number: 81013872 Case Type: RULE 4 HEARINGOffense Date: April 2, 2006.... Bankruptcies CourtDateJudgeCase NumberChapterFilling TypeSelf RepresentedDayton, Oh Lawrence S Walter 1330464 7 IndividualNoAttorneys:Name: Phone: 5132416650 Debtors:Name: Sharon D Butler Details:Corporation: NoFiler Type: JointComments: Multiple Debtors.... LiensNameFiled ByDateAmountType Sharon Butler INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE 05/12/2009 Greene County Recorders Office: Greene, Oh $164257 FEDERAL TAX LIEN Sharon D Butler WORLDWIDE ASSET 04/30/2009 Greene County Muni Court- Fairborne: Greene, Oh $1606 CIVIL JUDGMENT Sharon Butler INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE 05/23/2008 Greene County Recorders Office: Greene, Oh $43560 FEDERAL TAX LIEN Sharon Butler INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE 03/28/2008 Greene County Recorders Office: Greene, Oh $138093 FEDERAL TAX LIEN Sharon Butler MIAMI VALLEY HOSPITA;L 07/05/2005 Greene County Muni Court- Fairborne: Greene, Oh $3660 CIVIL JUDGMENT Sharon D Butler VENTURE SERVICES 06/02/2004 Greene County Muni Court- Fairborne: Greene, Oh $602 SMALL CLAIMS JUDGMENT Sharon Butler SCHMITT HUELSMAN AUTO MALL 03/28/2002 Greene County Muni Court- Fairborne: Greene, Oh $116 SMALL CLAIMS JUDGMENT Larry Butler BARRY S GALEN 04/19/1999 Montgomery Municipal Dayton: Montgomery, Oh $5035 CIVIL JUDGMENT Larry T Butler AGGREGATE TECHNOLOGIES 12/18/1998 Montgomery Municipal Kettering: Montgomery, Oh $10498 CIVIL JUDGMENT RELEASE FAIRMONT PRESBYTERIAN 06/16/1998 Montgomery Municipal Kettering: Montgomery, Oh $10000 CIVIL JUDGMENT Sharon D Butler BUCKEYE CHECK CASHING 04/08/1998 Greene County Muni Court- Fairborne: Greene, Oh $2260 CIVIL JUDGMENT Sharon Butler CASHLAND INC 02/09/1998 Montgomery Municipal Dayton: Montgomery, Oh $2125 CIVIL JUDGMENT Larry Butler AMOS SUBURBAN NEWSPAPERS 07/18/1996 Montgomery Municipal Kettering: Montgomery, Oh $15452 CIVIL JUDGMENT Larry Butler BASSAM NAKFOUR 03/15/1996 Montgomery Municipal Larry Butler BASSAM NAKFOUR 03/15/1996 Montgomery Municipal Kettering: Montgomery, Oh $303 CIVIL JUDGMENT Larry Butler FRANK CARONE 05/20/1995 Montgomery Municipal Dayton: Montgomery, Oh $250 CIVIL JUDGMENT Sharon Butter RENT A CENTER 10/05/1993 Montgomery Municipal Dayton: Montgomery, Oh $376 SMALL CLAIMS JUDGMENT *** NEWSPAPAER Woman Charged With Corrupt Endeavor to Impede the Internal Revenue Laws On June 5, 2009, Sharon Butler was charged in Ohio with corruptly endeavoring to impede a U.S. employee who was acting in an official capacity under the authority of the Internal Revenue laws. [1] Butler fabricated a false IRS Release of Levy and forged the signature of an IRS Revenue Officer while serving as a bookkeeper for a drywall business. The fraudulent Release of Levy notified a construction company that all property, rights to property, money, credits and bank deposits of the drywall company were released from IRS levy. [2] [1] Source: Southern District of Ohio Information dated June 5, 2009. [2] Ibid. refund deposited into an account he controlled.
I've thrown Fansteel and Laserdart widows (original 3 piece barrels), AND I've thrown the look alikes (one piece barrels). Played with my widows for 14 years competitively in KC, and I can tell you beyond a doubt, there is a massive difference in how the two compare when throwing. The balance is NOT present in the one piece barrels like it was in the 3 piece. I've bought a lot of darts from Clearance Darts in the UK, and yeah have purchased some "tungsten" darts for less than 30, sometimes even less than 20... and for every 1 set that has a good balance and toss to it, 3 sets will be marginal at best. I currently own about 40 sets of darts, and couldn't tell you where a single set of them came from.... I do know that around 1980, 5 of us guys all pooled 100$ each to order 5 sets of Fansteel Black Widows... So even 42 years ago, Black Widows were 100$ a set... mainly because of the 3 piece design caused a lot of breakage. The sections for the point and for the shafts that were brazed to the solid tungsten "body", would ofttimes snap off when they impacted the floor. The center section of solid tungsten was always smooth since it was 100% and extremely difficult to knurl I'd assume... I've tried a lot of Widow knock-offs... they all pale greatly.
I test out darts for a living and I literally do not know about this "balance" point you talk about. Look at it this way, if both barrels are 90% tungsten with the same exact dimensions then how is it possible they're different? Look at this picture for example... i.imgur.com/YqPSjnM.png On the top is a set of $150 black Widows. On the bottom are the $16 Red Dragon Widows. Same weight, same exact dimensions. Both made at the same exact Nodor factory. Yet one was bought by American players for $150 and the other was sold in the UK for $16. I tested both and they're literally the same exact dart. Throw the same, feel the same, etc... There's a saying... "the hardest part about getting scammed is admitting it." And sadly that's what Horizon Darts did to American dart players. Keep in mind, I'm NOT talking about the older Fansteel darts. Just Widows produced by Nodor from around 2000-2016. They were NOT made in the USA as claimed.
