HORUS LUPERCAL - Reaction to the second found Primarch 

I like the comparison!

The Emperor Protects!

May both be forever in glory!

yes, the Imperium was once small, then it grew to massive proportions, and it then collapsed and is now struggling to survive. the Imperium will not get to 50k. maybe not the best comparison...

Best comment I have seen 2day

10/10

cant blame erebus for that

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh snap

Vikings are dope, the emperor knew this

Likely remind him of his own birth culture.

@@____________838 Great point.

@@____________838 nah, I read somewhere he was born in modern Anatolia's region.

@@lateshpatil5307 There’s really not too great a drift among the early indo-European culture, at least compared modern typography.

"And if you don't then he is a coworker and you'll behave"

The primarchs are called superhuman beyond superhuman, but its not really true. They are, ultimately, human as everyone else. They have capabilities, abilities, powers, gifts, talents, everything anyone can ever hope for. But their minds are simply human, with weaknesses of personality often greater than most. Children grown up without a dad. No matter their power, they are in danger of developing personality problems, and their power only makes the problems worse. Its like straight from Basic Psychology for Dummies. Emps had a serious gap in his education.

@@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681 It's because Big E has the same problem. He's so in love with his vision and power that he doesn't ever look at himself and his personal shortcomings. Naturally, when designing the Primarchs, questions about strength of character and virtues vs flaws would not cross his mind, since they never cross his mind when thinking about himself anyway.

Then I am Horus..

@Stephen Shuford Malcador was Alpharius all along.

@@Sylinnilys or was he

stoic but warm

Well, Dorn did take the stoicism after his Father, after all.

The Emperor is for each person what he needs them to be.

Old but I thought Corax was discovered after the II and XI was purged?

@@ReaperofValhalla I think that was retconned?

The primarchs of the 2nd and 11th legions, are they unamed still?

Correction: Alpharius was the first. 2021 :)

@@TheVikingLife wait, what?

Na he reads novel's and books .... kinda same principle like reading wiki.... but its cool nonetheless ...i enjoy ...

Burn @onemindsyndicate

@@DarthBane959 Listen, OMS is a good place to start with the lore if you don't like reading, they are not to throw away or burn

@@giuseppedagostino6854 honestly i treat them as a last resort i recommend 40k theories

Cool, i'm also the oldest of 5 brothers.^^ By the age of 8 or so, i had everyones butts wiped clean at least once.^^

As a father of 3, I can identify with the Emperor here (not comparing myself to Him, that'd be heresy 😆). But I've seen these sibling rivalry/jealousy/resentment emotions play out a couple times now and this writing/reading is spot on.

You deep down the rabbit hole now mate? :)

he would not have been fallen if he wasnt hit by that ancient chaos weapon and beeing "healed" by chaos.

@@Vr6Zecke Yeah... fuck'n Erebus.

@@Sceptis It should have been FUCKING EREBUS, not FUCKING HORUS.

It's not that he wanted to be loved, it's that he wanted to be the only one to be loved.

Thanks man!

Thanks for the support! That's a great assessment of Horus!

Horus would be more salty meeting Guilliman and his patrician roman Emperor theme

Horus’s pride would’ve crumbled to ash if Sangiunius was found second

Horus when they find Ferrus: "how come I don't get shinny hands?!" *Sun reflects off his bald spott*

For Emperor and Imperium!

leman:uh...you good? horus:uhhhhh(please say no please say no please say no!) y-yeah of course

Why would the Emperor have added specific lines of DNA to each Primarch when creating them then, or deleterd entire sections in others, for example Primarch VI (Russ) had wolf DNA added. All Fenrisians have wolf DNA, as the first settlers messed about with gene splicing to survive Fenris' harsh conditions. As Magnus said "There are no wolves on Fenris."

Tbh that is only 1 book out of how many we've now seen the Emperor appear in, so just put it down to ADB not writing good characters very favourably since he prefers the bad guys, like Khan or Argel Tal. Then again, it may actually be some very good writing ironically, because it's just one scene out of the whole book, and it's from the perspective of Arkhan Land. A tech priest who believes the Emperor to be the Omnisiah(can't spell it) and then meets the Emperor (who allows you to see what you expect to of him), of course He's going to come off as an emotionless jackass to the Primarchs, seeing them as tools. Arkhan Land even comments it makes sense and is logical.

It's possible at a certain point the emperor knows he has to switch off his emotional feelings for his engineered sons when chaos starts pushing back. He knows some of his sons will turn but not which ones, and even the ones he is certain of the strands of fate end up changing in the end since again chaos is constantly fighting back and changing the future. That and the toll its probably taking towards the end

Being a slowly dying quadriplegic, in constant mind numbing agony on a slowly failing life support system powered by mass human sacrifices, while simultaneously trying to keep a warp rift from opening up on terra, while simultaneously working to keep interstellar travel working at all might have something to do with why the man seems a little dispassionate.

Also worth considering, everything in 40k is canon, not everything is true. It's all a matter of who's eyes the story is being told through.

@@Cha-Khia Master of Mankind especially. That’s the point of the novel. The Emperor typically reflects what the observer desires and/or expects, or at least that’s what the author has said on the novel.

Problem with 40k is deciding who to do the story around. 30k is easier but a solid quarter of the potential market will still have a hissy fit because it's "Bolter Porn".

@@psychedashell Its not bolter porn because it cant be. There is so much happening and limited time and budget that it will have to be mostly people talking. It will have to be more like, say, Babylon 5 in the way it looks. Talking, talking, talking, and a little bit of battle. You try to do something that looks even remotely bolter porn and you run out of time and money. First we cut out the Khan. He is not in the movie. Flight of the Eisenstein gets half an episode, burning of Prospero is not shown, but Magnus talking psychically is... So we cut out Russ. Russ is not in the movie. Neither is Corax, we dont need Corax, except at the Dropsite Massacre. Hes going to be a side chatacter. Hmmmm.... we are going to cut out Big E. Its much more powerful to refer to him than see him, and we cut out the duel with Horus, so we cut out Sanguinius, well, he arrives, he goes to his mission. Horus needs a few episodes just to cover his complex personality... isstvan virus bombing needs to have a full episode. Powerful stuff there, with people reacting to it on both sides. Lets see, we have limited budget, fully 3D animated, 12 episodes, so we have to squeeze an average of 3 books in 20 minutes each. But not all books are important, so lets say 2. That means we introduce a new character every 5 minutes, needing 10-15 minutes per person. That includes different chapters as persons too. Emps, no, Malcador will be a storyteller. Yeah, but, new characters need to be introduced before they do something, people dont know who they are? -What? No! Nono, dont be silly, making a movie this size for WH fans ONLY? Not economically viable, it has to go on public general use. Maximise viewer base. We also cut slaanesh, because of titties. Fulgrim can worship Nurgle, kiddies love monsters. We can reuse Slimer from Ghostbusters, he can be a mascot for Team Evil. Oh! Oh! "Primarch Babies: Friendship is Psychic." Now THATS the way to go, global markets. Less bolters, more diapers.

@@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681 Sounds legit. 3d animation is cheap and nasty though, we need something classy like stop motion animation.

@@psychedashell Stop motion 30K? Huh. I'm trying to imagine Laika-style stop motion with grim-dark 30K superimposed over it. Oddly, that... could... work.

Helsreach, Astartes, The Death of Hope...

he is confirmed 15ft tall in several books of old lore so same height as Magnus but the emperor could simply had made himself taller i mean he was a shape shiftier.

@@michaelkean5969 Wait... WHAT?!? I didn't know he was a shapeshifter. What shapes?

@@shipmate3577 squares, triangles and circles mostly.

@@shipmate3577 Read The Master of Mankind (book 41), as some of the main characters enter the Throne Room and move towards the Doors beneath the Golden Throne (I.e. the Webway Gate) a few of the troops, and the character of that passage in the chapter turn round (even though they were told not to) and they see the Emperor high above and back from the gate, most of them either loose their minds or just stare dumbly because of the power, but the main character sees through the power and illusion that mortal minds conjure up (or the image the Emperor puts in their heads) and all they see is an ordinary man in golden elaborate armour, human sized with black hair (like those very old and first illustrations of the Horus Heresy in the 90s) and exhausted from the effort of holding the power of the Webway Gate in check, with wrinkles appearing and the hair greying, his eyes screwed tight shut with concentration. He or she (I forget now cos it was a long while ago I read it) is then pushed through the portal in the gate by the Custodian leading them and it breaks the spell the character was under, transfixed on the Emperor as they were. It's interesting to note that everyone sees what they want to see or what image the Emperor embodies at that moment, like to Magos Arkhan Land (discoverer of the Land Raider STC, called it Land's Raider and was pissed that the Astartes always referred to it as the Land Raider lmao) who saw the Emperor as emotionless, almost like the Machine God, as he was examining Primarch 12 ((Angron) while 'it' was unconscious, contemplating that He couldn't remove the butchers nails from 'it', Land saw the Emperor as Japhetto, and the Primarch's as Pinocchios, creations or experiments that the Emperor used and only pretended were His sons because they called him Father. Yet each of the Primarchs who speak to the Emperor in parts of other books feel an almost Fatherly warmth and emotion from Him, like a hot sun they want to bask in the radiance of, even as it burns them. Other humans see the Emperor as a god being, or as a terrifying warlord etc. etc. It makes for some great contemplation of the topic, and would make some great books, if Black Library would try and make another about Him, instead of on the Primarchs and just bolter porn.

@@greypilgrim228 Great reply; thank you.

Except he didn't control where the primarchs were scattered

INQUSITOR

Thanks for the support!

@@wolflordrho keep making great videos like this my friend 🙂

It's Sanguinius. Like a lot of Latin it's largely just written how it sounds, Sang hwin ee uss. Sanguinius (I'll delete this after you correct it, don't worry)

Indeed, why don't they look like that if they all come from the Emperor?

Sometime the big E and his kids come off so fucking godly they don’t feel human and it takes u outta narrative of the emporium

Ave Brother, (makes the sign of the Aquila) Chapter & Company designation? I myself am 3rd Centurion of 4th Company, 1st Chapter.

Note: sorry about the bastardly huge wall of text, but I felt it necessary to defend my beloved Emperor! If it helps I've broken it up into paragraphs. You have to remember that the whole book 'The First Heretic' is seen through the eyes of the XVII Legion and Lorgar, that the entire time they are told these 'truths' they are told by chaos, which if you hadn't noticed chaos lies, or leaves out certain details when it does tell the truth (e.g. when it shows Horus the Imperium's future in his death vision during 'False Gods', then fails to tell him it only happens if he sides with chaos, and claims it happens if the Emperor becomes a god, and the Emperor will attempt to become one when the Great Crusade is over, casting the Primarchs aside. Two truths and a lie, and missed out information that would expose the whole vision as one big lie.) Corax visits the Imperial Palace during 'Deliverance lost', and discovers huge cloisters, with rooms off them, each courtyard dedicated to a Primarch and his retinue, staff etc. and ponders to himself how different things would have been had the Primarchs grown up on Terra, or if the Crusade had eventually been over and his brothers had not betrayed the Emperor, would these rooms have had a purpose?.. Further on in 'Deliverance Lost' Corax and his Apothecaries are examining equipment and data from the Emperor's experiments to create the Primarchs, all of whom were created from a single female Primarch template (extracted from the Emperor's DNA with several specific strands deleted obviously) and it is remarked upon (I forget by whom, probably one of the apothecaries) that many of the Primarchs have had great amounts of DNA sequence deleted, while others have had specific lines added, for example Primarch VI (i.e. Russ) has had Wolf DNA spliced with it. This would indicate that the Emperor knew full well where the Primarchs would land long before the events of 'The First Heretic', or had a fairly good idea. And coming back to Horus' death vision, when he visits the Imperial Palace just as the Primarchs' pods are about to fall into the Warp Portal, the Emperor appears and freezes time, looks over at Horus and proclaims "I know you." It seems to show He knows at that moment, or has some understanding that Horus will trigger the heresy, and unfreezes time, allowing the pods to fall into the portal before vanishing as He arrived, leaving Horus screaming "NOOO, FATHER DON'T!!" Then again, it is a vision from Chaos, so who can say how truthful that exact moment is, since it's designed to make Horus believe the Emperor never cared for His sons. It's also stated in 'A Thousand Sons' that "there are no wolves on Fenris" by Magnus, and that the first settlers to Fenris during the dark age of technology, tried to splice their DNA with many different animals to cope with the conditions of the planet, and all but wolves failed. This may also suggest that other animals on Fenris are related to humans, or their first ancestors were, hence why all animals on Fenris are such savage monsters. No normal humans could survive on Fenris with it's extreme heat in summer and horrendous cold in winter, shown by the Terran Casper Hawser at the beginning of 'Prospero Burns' when he lands on the planet seeking the Space Wolves, and his saviour character 'Bear' who later becomes his Space Wolf chaperone, explains that he'd have been dead had he remained outside the Fang much longer, either because of the cold which kills ordinary humans in hours, or one of Fenris's many predators.

@@greypilgrim228 Fruit for thought, nice info. Since I'm pretty new to 40k, with reading a 3 Horus Hersey books and the dark imperium books. After watching other 40k channels, I noticed each HH book details different perspectives, but I tend to forget the details about Chaos. So far my favorite HH books are: "Master of Mankind", "First Heretic", and "Born of Flame".

Its a lot more complex than that

You got beat by a girl. Zannah was a good choice though. Too bad Magnus never popped by to show you sith some real power though.

Not even close. Horus ultimately betrays the emperor for several reasons- being manipulated by chaos in a fevered dream (which he was helpless against, because the emperor never warned any of his sons about chaos), feeling alienated because empy left for terra with no explanation, the manipulations of Erebus, and the plain fact that the emperor lied about his true motivations.

I think in previous editions, there was some apocryphal stuff in the lore about Sanguinus having a mortal woman as a lover.

@@Diannalover Woah. Now *that* would make one hell of a fan-fic. ;)

No, we will not have them bow down to emotionally unstable, manipulative beings

@@carloreneeventura8714 incel

They would if there were women of the same level as them. It's hard to love normal women when you are a 3m tall Demi God who can live for milennia. I think The only female in the Galaxy that is capable of being a Primarch's girlfriend is some very powerful Eldari.

I know this was a year ago but just thinking, the emperor definitely didn’t love all his sons. For example, he totally agitated and neglected both lorgar and angron.

I agree the plan for them being scattered rather than growing on terra seems odd, but the theory is out there. And one big legion? Now that's an interesting idea I've never thought of before!

Thought not directly confirmed, it is heavily implied each legion was meant to be complete in itself. The Emperor did not seem to have "specialized" intent for the legions. I do not believe, for example, the Thousand Sons were intended to be Psyker specialized units. The World Eaters were not meant to be close combat specialists. The only exception, maybe, is the Alpha legion possibly being built for espionage and secrecy. While the thought that Magnus was meant to lead the librarians, Ferrus the mechanized units, Angron leading the close combat units, it sounds really cool. It just doesnt seem to fit in the story as we know it, or at least how it is interpreted based on what few information we are given.

Sean Gill yeah I'm sure you're right but that is the way that reboot guilliman did it in his Crusade with the gray Shields or the unnumbered sons or wherever

@@seangill2522 It's heavily implied that the Legions while not having a specific specialisation, more broadly embodied certain traits, and most of them overlapped as a kind of insurance policy if one went heretical or whatever, e.g. II. and XI. For example the Iron Warriors were similar to the Fists, and the Blood Angels were as savage as the World Eaters, if only more angelic looking. The Warhounds (World Eaters before Angron) even lacked order just as the Space Wolves did before Russ, and every centurion was a harsh drillmaster and disciplinarian in both legions, replaced only by being killed by one of their own who coveted the position. This is shown by the areas or stock from which each Legion's initial recruits were chosen from on Terra. The 12th Legion were all picked from the most ferocious of recruits across all areas of Terra. The Emperor even nicknamed them the Warhounds upon seeing their first engagement on Terra, and held them largely in reserve for the remainder of the unification of the Solar System, sending them after that to the bloodiest and heaviest engagements or stalemates. The 14th Legion were picked from the hardy and resilient infantry fighters of Albia (Albania). The 1st Legion were divided into 6 wings from the start of their formation, informal brotherhoods that could be called upon across all companies and chapters to form a unit and attack in their particular style if a commander required it, two of these names were the Deathwing, and the Dreadwing, the 1st were also known as the Angels of Death. The 8th Legion were recruited from the underworld city ruins long since built over and abandoned, where the Techno-Barbarian Tyrants and Lords would throw prisoners and convicts, where there was no light and civilisation had long since been forgotten for animal instinct, where those born into the darkness were known as the children of night because of their black eyes and lack of pupils. The 17th Legion were always known as the Imperial Heralds and from their very founding existed to tear down the religious works of old night in light of the Imperial Truth, nicknamed by their brother Legions as the 'Iconoclasts'. From the outset they had an almost genetically in built need to revere and serve the Emperor, bordering on religious devotion (which Lorgar would stoke into the belief that the Emperor was a god). The 13th were selected from all cultures on Terra, and later those within Segmentum Solar who resisted unification, their children absorbed in to the Legion so as to prevent future rebellion. The 13th closely resembled the 17th, though while one was almost religiously in awe of the Emperor, the 13th was just so for hierarchy and order. The warborn' as they were nicknamed never specialised in any one art but adapted quickly to new situations and added to it's abilities and effectiveness as it fought across the stars.

Mechanicus by the children of the omnissiah

And Jaghatai's wisdom. He knew the imperial truth was a lie but humanity needed to be united at any cost. Just like his home chogoris. Watch his speech with Malcador.

Your sister sounds like a bit of a bitch

The Horus heresy books have really improved the space wolves lore

the Horus heresy Is based of alot of mythology for example the entire heresy is kind off Based of the war in heaven or Lucifer's rebellion. the emperor on this regard is God Horus is Lucifer and the other primarchs are the archangels.

Wolfsbane really fleshes out the Nordic influence on space wolves/Russ lore, imo

@@wolflordrho Only the ignorant call them the Space Wolves, especially to their faces, those in the know, and the Legion itself call them the Flka Fenryka. God Rho, honestly....(tuts) and you call yourself a fan of the Rout....I'm so ashamed of you. Lol joke, keep up the good work, this channel is brilliant.

This is mostly theory and musings so take it with a grain of salt. The Space Wolves are all about conflict, conflict with the rest of the Imperium, conflict within their own chapter, conflict with their own inner demons, conflict with hating Psykers and still having them, anyway, there are three distinct generations of Space Wolves and four personality types. *Generation 1 Pre Russ Neutral-Evil monsters who only put up with orders because they make killing more efficient. *Generation 2 Russ Leadership Lawful-Evil monsters who are just getting leashed and muzzled by Fenrisian culture, they live for alcohol, hero worship and their leader Russ. *Generation 3 Russ goes walkabout True Neutral monsters who live for alcohol, hero worship and what's left of the Imperium. The more Space Wolves die in battle the more stories there are to tighten the leash. On to the personality types. 1. Leman Russ Russ actually changes as a character, Pre-Heresy Russ is an intelligent but naive person who is quick to form kinship and distrusts experimental arts, he hides it all behind the mask of The Executioner. Post Heresy Russ believes he killed a brother and is remorseful that he did so at the words of the traitor. He also broods a lot. 2. The Protagonists. Most of the main characters written about in Space Wolf novels are outlying personalities. Bjorn the Fell-Handed is burdened with prophesy, being dragged out of his pack and forced to follow Russ around during the Heresy has made him quiet and thoughtful, being left behind when Russ departed then ten thousand years of life and pseudo life have added wisdom and empathy into the mix. Bjorn is quick to tell people to go away and leave him alone but has a tendency to listen then mull over what he has been told and often decides to help out. Being the Chapter Master of the Space Wolves followed by a tenure as the oldest Space Marine in the Imperium means his personality has had an effect on the Wolves. Logan Grimnar is the current Chapter Master of the Space Wolves, we don't really know his back story but he seems to have decided that the common man is great at spreading stories and should be saved, Logan is much like Bjorn and an incredibly good and empathetic listener for a Space Wolf. Ragnar Blackmane actually wasn't too happy with being recruited into the Space Wolves, especially since he was recruited alongside a rival tribesman Grimskull whose scalp he wanted. Ragnar spent most of his time as a Blood Claw seething over the injustice of being team-mates and forced to work with someone he wanted to kill, naturally he developed a grudging respect and friendship with Grimskull, Ragnar has also had the rest of the Space Wolves wanting to kill him for throwing a Relic of the Fang into the Warp, been ostracized to the Wolf Blade a unit of Space Wolf outcasts performing guard duty on Terra, earned redemption and returned to the Space Wolves as a hero, while he has a brutal temper Ragnar is again known for his empathy, he repairs rifts between the Space Wolves and fellow loyalist chapters because he is one of the few Space Wolves who doesn't consider grudges to be healthy. Njarl Stormcaller actually gives us a look into how the Space Wolves view psykers in general, even their own. Njarl is actually one of the most powerful psykers in the Imperium in spite of his growth being limited by the Wolves' bleak outlook on Psykers and demands for layers of protection against Warp Craft. Picking up a Thousand Sons essence actually makes Njarl aware of the Wolves' limitations on his growth. When requesting a mission Njarl is grudgingly allowed to go by Logan Grimnar but still forced to recruit with the stipulation that joining him must be voluntary. 3. The average Space Wolf. The average Space Wolf is the real Executioner and not a mask like Russ wears, you'll see it crop up pretty frequently in the novels. The average Space Wolf dislikes the unknown, revels in murder, believes killing a fellow loyal Space Marine in a duel to first blood is something to be celebrated and lives to die in battle. Krom Dragongaze is your average Space Wolf personality promoted to a position of power. 4. Lukas the Trickster is the final personality, self-aware and reflective of his chapter. Lukas is to the Space Wolves what the Space Wolves are to the rest of the Imperium, offensive, troublesome, shit-stirring and too damn powerful and good at his job to be killed or even kicked back into line.

Robert Wiech hurr Let’s put massive amounts of resources, time and warp magic into 20 Demi gods just to kill half of them off durr Great plan Emprah Bruh

There is a theory that he planned on keeping the Triumvirate - the Space Wolves, Alpha Legion and Salamanders - three legions created in isolation for goodness knows what reason.

@@psychedashell Space Wolves were executioners, made to kill other legions so they were probably made to die last or to ensure that there would be no rebelions once the GReat Crusade was done, Emperor probably did not take into account that Vlka Fenryka would grow along with Leman, who even though was made to be executioner of his brothers he still loved them and did not want to kill them. Salamanders were most likely made to preserve technology of imperium and to help humanity reach level of DAoT once more given the fact that Vulkan was perpetual AND was the greatest smith. Preservation of knowlegde and power, that were the Salamanders and again their selfless attitude was probably not the plan of Emperor either. Alpha legion maybe were suppose to work as spies, like inquisition in 40k era and since they had 2 primarchs from which 1 of them would most likely betray them and die they would be pretty reliable because bad part of them would be gone and the entire legion wouldn't betray Emps. Emperor was twisted. I seriously hate him for what he did to some of his sons and how little regard he had for their lives with few exceptions (the ones that he needed). But in some way that's why I love Emperor too, he is just such well made character, a perfect being that doesn't realize it has it's own flaws. Primarchs are also great. each of them with their own backgrounds, personalities and stories. I love how HH series made these characters.

@@AzraelSoulHunter That is the first time I've read a decent explanation for the Alpha Legion. People come up with spies but never really a reason as to why such a successful Imperium would require spies. Well played.

Which others would he keep? Gulliman, Dorn, Vulkan?