2:34 "It's like Alien blood, I'm serious." - *He's not joking folks.* Bluing salts are PH lvl 14 and has to be at a rolling boil - when I went to gunsmithing school we basically wore full body rubber condoms. Rubber gloves all the way to the armpits, long rubber apron all the way to our boots and protective blast shields over our heads and faces. Even directly inhaling the fumes can put you on a respirator for the rest of your life. Bluing salts are nothing to play with unless you know what you're doing.
@@fukcg00gle95 If you're looking to do it for your own enjoyment, certainly. If you're intent on doing it towards the goal of making your own custom firearms or starting a business in firearms - I'd recommend against. We're currently on a downward slope and I foresee us losing our rights either this administration or the next one. Be it by illegal means or no. I loved going to school, I enjoyed the work, I had a lot of fun with the people I went to school with: but under the current circumstances, I couldn't possible in good conscious recommend someone else do so towards the goal of employment or career - when that would constitute an enormous investment and the career opportunities seem tenuous.
@Daniel If you're hot salt bluing in a tank like that: you should really have a full ventilation system because even the fumes coming off the tank are caustic. Beyond that, wearing a forced air unit with filter would probably work, or a double fan set up so the entire thing operates in a wind tunnel which points out a door. There are plenty of bluing alternatives which, may not be as fast - but will produce equal (and better) results. I.E. rust bluing. The whole reason the gun industry switched to hot salt was simply production speed. It's cheaper than electro plating, faster than rust bluing, far easier than color case hardening: however, each of those offer superior protection to hot salt bluing. If you're doing small scale stuff, just a garage shop or maybe a small low order threshold business: I recommend nitre bluing, rust bluing, electroless nickel plating, phosphate or even some of the spray on options which can really produce quite good results with practice. If you want to be slick about it, and I mean popped collar pink polo shirt and dark sunglasses circa 1986 slick - for blade work, you can nitre blue - as part of - your temper cycling.
Lovely work there. I'm loving all these metallurgy videos. I've been working with so many more types of steel lately, and I wouldn't be as far along as I am if it weren't for the generous community of RU-vid. Thanks for the upload.
I truly do not know the chemicals involved. Some companies make this a proprietary secret. Some serious internet searches should be able to help you discover this.
@@KarlBAndersen thanks for the reply. I'll have a chat with a few local gunsmiths in the area. Perhaps they'd be willing to let me in their recipes....
When I tell you, you'll feel foolish like I did when I first figured it out. Rather than go from a liquid immediately to an explosive gas, make it solid first! Ice cubes. Drop in ice cubes one at a time to adjust specific gravity. By the time they go from solid to liquid, they immediately begin absorbing salts and it is much less violent.
I would like to make a set up like yours. What kind of steel is the tank made of? I have access to some mild steel sheet, but I know there is a very small amount of copper in it. Thanks Seth
Copper can potentially neutralize your salts, so be careful. I bought my tanks from the salt supplier - Brownells - who refer to the tanks as "black iron".
I'm ON IT! I have done it at higher temp no water! I like this better! Any residual crystal can be heated off with torch and can add to the affect or soaked off in HOT water also helping dry with hot metal. Biol in TSP 1st and it cleans Very well!
@@KarlBAndersen yes I do agree that's far more better mixtures of solution in pre- manufactured salts. salute to you. Which brand do you use please let me know sir 👍👍
Thanks for the video, funny it seems counterintuitive to add water to increase boiling. So what are the blueing salts? I have an heirloom gun that needs blueing, thanks again
Adding water does not "increase boiling". When adding water you are simply replacing the water that has boiled away. As the water leaves the mixture it, the mixture becomes heavier and it takes more heat to make it boil, which increases the boiling temperature. By replacing the water as it boils away, you are maintaining the boiling temperature which is critical. I have no idea the recipe of the salts. It's a special mixture and I just buy it. I'll let the professionals make it.
Karl Andersen I don’t want to make it just know where I can buy/what’s the brand name so I can look it up, yep that’s what I meant increase boiling by decreasing the boiling temperature by adding water thanks again, very informative video
Were do you buy the blueing salts and were can I go to learn a little more before I try blueing gun are knives because it really sounds like you no what you are doing I thank you for all the help I can get
You cab buy your salts numerous places. One place is Brownell's. The salts come with very specific direction on their use. They also have technicians you can call for trouble-shooting questions. Learn by doing.
are you the same Anderson that's on bladegallery? I can't remember if you were at the mka show in 2011, If so, I always find your blades attractive when I'm looking for new ideas. thank you for this video! Mike Ball.
It's a different animal than what is used. It might work. I'll continue to use the prescribed oil. I have two gallons of WD40 in the shop. But it won't go near my hot-bluing process.
@@KarlBAndersen Which oil would you recommend? I have a 1956 Marlin LeverMatic I'd like to do. Not a valuable rifle but I like shooting it and it is unique enough that I think it deserves to be taken care of. I bought it off the "sad sack" pile and cleaned it up so it is "OK" but now I'd like to go a bit further and rust blue it. Any advise is appreciated. Thanks
Is there any chance of the Salts in the tank to cause Rust on metal in other parts of the shop just by sitting out in the open? I thought that they had to be cleaned up and in a container?
People ask me why? Because I enjoy bluing! 😄 As bunkers as that sounds, I can relate 👍 Man all those tanks, I just wanna come over for some steam inhalation to open my sinuses! Thoroughly enjoyed the video, educational and entertaining 👍 thank you very much.
It’s so sad that there aren’t many guys still doing this kind of work, so much mass produced import goods, it really hurts guys like this who hand make everything in their workshop and make absolutely stunning products. Anyways, thanks for taking the time to show us your work, the finished product is absolutely beautiful... now if I can just find someone to hot blue my sks....
Well if everyone didnt want everything for nothing guys like this would be more available but everyone want something for nothing so order from over seas , now look how thats working out , made in china means something else now doesnt it , lets see how many people will continue to support china now , ive aalways tryed to keep my money in my country and only buy from over seas when nobody here makes what i need , unfortunately most things dont get made in our countries because companies only care about profits not quality or keeping our country self reliant . Now we just got cought with our pants down and are getting spanked hard , time to keep our business in house dont you think .....
I had a business doing this for years on commercial parts. When you get the tank cooking it took about two minutes to do a knife at gun barrel. The prettiest piece we would do would be mirror polished steel. Nice job.
Snow,,,. Interesting. there's minerals in snow, dust too. It's often called poor farmer's fertilizer because of the minerals,. How does the RO water compare to snow melt?
yes, I also looked Brownells and saw "black iron" I talked to everyone and the black iron is the most generic term ever used. It describes black paint to unpainted steel. What I think it means in this situation is a high iron content, but i do not know. thanks seth
I assure you there is no paint involved. The bluing salts are very fragile and can be neutralized easily. Think of "Black Pipe" you get in the hardware store. It is low alloy steel that has a black iron oxide - raw iron - on the surface. This ensures there are no potential neutralizing alloys coming in contact with the salts.
No. Water Displacing oil. www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/post-finish-surface-protection/1-gallon-sku082057128-1086-3913.aspx
That's why you only take the snow off the top. By that time the air has basically been "scrubbed" free of particles. That said, particles of "dirt" would have no ill effect on the bluing process. Distilled water can be very harmful if it is distilled in anything NOT glass. Copper tubing used in the distillation process can literally neutralize the salts. Look at my results. I've been hot-bluing for 2 decades. The results speak for themselves. www.andersenforge.com
your tank is not big enough the water will evaporate you will not easily maintain the temp, also the salt solution is too close to the top of the tank if your not constantly monitoring it it will flow over the top of the tank
Dude!! I've been using that EXACT set-up for 15 years!!!!!!! The salt doesn't boil over. The tank is plenty large for that size burner. I could use a smaller tank. Jeeze. Watch the video - is it boiling over? No.
You got simple thermometer with 5 degree hash marks and 2 simple propane burners and you're boiling off water so you have to add cold water all the time and you make claims that you maintain temperature within 1 degree! You can't even read thermometer in one degree so how would you even know you're off by one degree? Get electric heating element and PID controller (cheap to build one) and you have much greater chance to actually maintain that. And why snow? Any water stored for any period of time will grow algae how do you not notice that especially snow that could have been easily contaminated. Why not just buy few gallons of distilled water from your grocery store?
You need to take a closer look at that thermometer smart ass. It's a calibrated gunsmithing thermometer from Brownells. They run about 50 bucks. And your foolish comments show you know little about maintaining a constant temp in a brine solution with the water continually vaporizing. You missed the point where the water temp must be controlled AT A BOIL! If it's boiling the water is constantly vaporizing and LEAVING the mixture thus raising the boiling temp. The water must be replaced. I get tired of you peple who don't do caustic bluing suggesting they can tell me how to do something I've done for 20+ years " 6) TEMPERATURE CONTROL OFTHE BLUING SOLUTION - The single most common cause of trouble for the beginning gun bluer is not understanding the absolute importance of maintaining temperature control - and how to do it. If you fully understand the principle of “supersaturation” described above, you will see that as the temperature of the Bluing Solution rises above 292° F., it can be brought down by adding water. If the temperature is too low (below 292° F.), it can be raised back up to 292° F. by allowing water to boil out of the Bluing Solution or by adding more Bluing Salts to the Bluing Solution. In other words, the key to temperature control in the Bluing Solution is to closely monitor the temperature and add water or Bluing Salts, or let water boil out to maintain the optimum operating conditions of a vigorous, rolling boil at 292° F. Because the Bluing Solution operates at a vigorous boil, which creates a lot of steam, it is constantly losing a lot of water, and the temperature will consistently rise - unless you frequently add water to the Bluing Solution to replace the water being boiled away and lost from the solution. . Therefore, ADD WATER FREQUENTLY TO THE BLUING SOLUTION. If you do not, the temperature will rise, the Bluing Solution will go out of the correct chemical balance to turn the guns blue-black, and will instead , at the higher temperatures, turn the parts red, or shades of red. DO NOT: Do Not ever try to control the operating temperature of your Bluing Solution by just turning the heat source up or down.
Black Oxide Temperature - Since water boils at 212F at sea level and the operating temperature of Oxiblak is 290-295F, black oxide salts must be added to the bath to raise its boiling temperature. To understand how the amount of salts in a solution affects the boiling point, you must understand that adding salts to the solution makes it stronger and denser. Denser liquidshave higher boiling points. Adding water to the solution lowers the density and, therefore, lowers the solution boiling point. When the boiling point is correct, the solution concentration is correct. Oxiblak has a recommended operating temperature of 290-295F. The black oxide operating temperature is not controlled solely by the heat source, it is controlled by the combination of the heat source and the concentration of chemicals in the solution. Never try to obtain the proper operating temperature of a black oxide bath by adjusting the tank's heating systemup or down. The heat source should be set for the day at a gentle rolling boil - then you can maintain the proper operating temperature with the additions of salts or water. For example, if your solution is boiling at 275F, you must add black oxide salts to your tank which will result in a denser solution and raise the boiling point. If your solution is boiling at 290F, you must add room temperature water to the tank to create a thinner solution which will lower the boiling point. Boiling Point - The boiling point of a black oxide bath is indicated by a slight eruption in one corner or along the sidewall of the tank. This slight eruption along with the proper operating temperature indicates that blackening is occurring. A black oxide tank can be heated to the proper operating temperature but without this boiling action - blackening will not occur
@@KarlBAndersen You mean the bluing thermometer (not gunsmithing) from Brownell's that's actually rebranded Tel-Tru? Is your definition of "calibrated" because it has fat black mark that occupied at least 5 degrees worth of space? Brownell description says nothing about "calibrated" but that's not the point, you missed my point - the thermometer does not have 1 degree hasmarks! So you're claims of maintaining to 1 degree is nothing but exaggeration! Stick a digital thermometer and you will see the temperature fluctuate way more than one degree! I said the same thing that you are just repeating now about adding more water to replace vaporized one, no need to repeat I understood perfectly from the video my point was that by adding more water which is in the ice cube form as you wrote in comments and keeping it all within 1 degree is once again a bogus claim that you can't proof because you don't have accurate tools to measure your solution to a 1 degree - that's all I am saying - nothing more. I am sure you know your bluing I am not doubting your skills for a second.
@@KarlBAndersen Why are you telling me all this? I never questioned any of this and I never said its wrong or doubt it, you're reading too much into it without actually paying attention to what I was saying.
@@DimaProk Because you're suggesting to use a PID controller to control heat. If you think that's how the temp is controlled then you don't understand the process. That's why I'm telling you all this. I shared the info from two different bluing supply companies so you can learn something.
I can only assume you are referring to the knife vise? It's basically just a round pipe inside another round pipe. I made mine but just search for "pipe vise".
@@KarlBAndersen You'd never make it in a union shop. We have all of our work areas clean and orderly. It makes for a safer work environment and helps achieve consecutive days without a work loss injury.
@@texassportsman5880 Big difference between working in a union shop and working in a part time one-man garage. I'd "make it" in a union shop just fine.
@@texassportsman5880 And that place was almost a decade a go. I have a dedicated work shop now. Don't miss the point of the video. I've been working in shops since 1968.
@@thieFdown It's not just "salt" they are "bluing salts" that fall into the chemical salt family. They do not create "fumes" as they don't convert into a gas. Any of the salts in the tank can only come out in the water as it leaves in a vapor. That said - they are VERY!! caustic and would be unhealthy if breathed.
