HOTD: Official Podcast: S2 Ep. 3: Bethany Antonia’s Rising Impact on Team Black 

Criston Cole obsession is so cringe. I don't even like him but you people sound like Alicent want to hit him and then have sex with him or what? because all this hate is like to much. Menntal issues? and some are who harassing Fabien Frankel because of this character, some of these people are so delusional that they can’t tell the difference between fiction and non fiction. It’s so bad he had to mute his instagram because of it. Kudos to Fabien for the amazing job tho.

😂😂😂😂😂🤞

Yep he realised how small he really is in this game of thrones.

@@Lone_Wolf_LT Shit show

Baela is just like - hey I am Daemon Targaryen's daughter. What did you expect? I was playing nice.

He reminds me of dr who in this episode. The last ep he was prince Philip its so great!!

​@@DavidGrushlol.... cry harder david

We definitely thank her for that brothel scene. It was GOT gold.

That’s how it felt to me too. Like Daemon saying “Dude, come on, what the hell. I’ve leveled up from ‘Prince’ and have been promoted to ‘King Consort.’ Don’t take that from me, man.”

It still means thousands of innocents will die, including her own family, just for her to have her crown. She is not in the wrong, thats just the reality and she could stop it. Of course the show invented that she thinks she needs to sit the throne because of the prophecy. But she could have told Aegon about it

@@dr_buschy or Aegon, could not have usurped the throne?

@@CJAmara As I said, she is in the right. But at the point we are right now Rhaenyra could end this. She now knows Alicent cant end it, she propably still could.

Gwayne has all the landed family disdain for Ser Crispy, lol

When his real name is Crispin

They are going to be kidnapped on their voyage, so define "Smart" durrrrrrrrrrrr.

It took Daemon at least a day to get to Harrenhal on dragonback, the show makes it seem like the events of e3 are two days later at most. Even if he sent a raven in the middle of the night during pouring rain, and raven didnt get hurt, and assuming that Harrenhal even has a raven for Dragonstone, it would take the raven a few days to get the news And something tells me that Harrenhal doesnt have a raven for Dragonstone

@@dustin2207 right because Rhaenyra had the same exact info that you the reader have.

@@yensid4294 ​ @yensid4294 Maybe if SHE wasn't a dumb bitch, SHE would have been victorious.

😂😂😂😂😂 Thanks for writing this 🙌

They also haven’t been petrified into stone yet.

It is the same in our world, king is considered a higher title than queen. If you’re married to a queen you remain prince or lord

I was looking forward to hearing their take on restless Seasmoke too. I've read others that believe Seasmoke came back looking for Leonor's partner because Leonor had died, but I thought the partner took off with Leonor. I think I need to go back and pay more attention to who the partner is and what he looks like. I thought it was a mixed racial relationship but Im reading comments on other channels referring to Addam of Hul that was Leonor's partner (who I thought was one of the newer characters of color that have had dialogue with Alyn and Corlys in S2E2). I must be conflating something? In any case, popular opinion seems to lean towards it meaning that Leonor has died off screen.

@@treesabhe did leave with his partner, I was maybe thinking, seasmoke is restless cause their master is just gone?don’t know, but, I hope to see more of that and seeing what happens.

Ser Criston Cole is his name. Not sure why he keeps calling Christopher, it's a little annoying imo

@@sorakairi6 crazy annoying 😂 It kinda feel intentional though, maybe he just thinks it’s funny lol

Oh it's just fun to say. I call him Crispy Cream or Crips or Crispy Cole 😂

Yes

His name is Criston Cole. Here on the pod though we just like to have fun with it 💁

They haven’t went in depth on the dragon seeds yet so there’s is still hope!

@@SLVNTGOONZ hopefully 🤞

Yes i want to see Cinderella and Xena of Driftmark.She had such a pivotal ark that everyone in the end had amnesia and forget that she even existed.Shame.

Dangerous, yes. Silly, I don't know about that. With her arch so far it tracks. Seems like the kind of risk her character would be bold enough to take before consciously committing to war. She is 1. A matriarchal leader who was delt the first major loss of this conflict making a last ditch attempt at averting the carnage to come for the realm she was charged to protect 2. A daughter who needs to know for certain if her father renounced her claim at the last minute, therefore making her claim void and not worth burning the realm over nor the potential anihilation of her family. It's a desperate bid for peace and closure.

It's never stated that. Just assumed.

@@Red1Green2Blue3 yes it is

@@Red1Green2Blue3 Dreamfyre looks like Drogon

@@andreasmith5396 Please state the book and page number where it is stated that Danny's eggs are from Dreamfyre. Clearly you've never read the books.

I thought the same thing, but in british monarchy a queens consort is a prince, maybe in Westeros its similar and you can only be called king if you rule, not as a consort. It was never before necessary in westerosi history

@@dr_buschy That is not actually the case. I wrote basically an essay on this topic for a different comment, but I'll repeat it here: It has not always been the case that the term Prince-Consort was used and arguably it was used only once officially (but I'll argue it was used three times). I’ll go through the examples by listing all the English and British (and one Scottish) ruling queens. These queens are: Matilda, Jane, Mary I, Elisabeth I, Mary II, Anne, Victoria, and Elizabeth II. Additionally I will count Mary, Queen of Scots, who was a claimant to the English throne and her son inherited the English throne from Elisabeth I, so may also give some insight into the practice. The reign of the first ruling queen Matilda was disputed by her cousin Stephen of Blois and she never truly managed to rule England. She held the title of Empress Dowager and Countess of Anjou by marriage. She was often referred to as Empress, but her claimed English title was ‘Lady of the English’. It seems her husband never took the title of King or Prince-Consort, but did claim the title of Duke of Normandy (which was title of the Kings of England at the time). Jane ruled for only 9 days and her reign is not universally accepted. She did take the title of Queen. Her husband Guildford Dudley demanded to be named King-Consort, but was refused and was only to be allowed to take the title ‘Duke of Clarence’. But her reign was over before anything could come of it. Mary I succeeded her. She married the later King Philip II of Spain and named him her co-ruler as King of England. Him being a co-ruler was not universally accepted, so there is some dispute over whether he counts as a King-Consort or as co-ruler. An special Act of Parliament was created to make rules for this marriage. Philip would be allowed to co-rule with Mary nominally, but not truly, and if he survived his wife, but had no children by her, he would not be allowed to remain King. In my opinion Philip counts as the first King-Consort. Elisabeth I never married, so there was no consort. Her rival to the throne was Mary, Queen of Scots. She married first King Francis II of France, secondly Henry Stuart, and thirdly James Hepburn. Francis was named King-Consort (he also became King of France shortly afterwards, but he was King-Consort first). Henry Stuart was also named King-Consort, but attempted to gain the Crown Matrimonial and to be named as co-ruler. This failed and he was murdered not that long into the marriage. The third marriage to Hepburn is strange and shouldn’t be taken into consideration as it resulted from an abduction and forced marriage and it lasted for about a month. Hepburn only took the title Duke of Orkney. Both Francis and Henry Stuart count as King-Consorts, though only of Scotland. Mary II became Queen by usurping her father’s throne together with her cousin-husband King William III (of Orange). William III also had a claim to the throne through his mother, though this was weaker than his wife’s. Then again, Mary II and William III mostly ruled by invitation by Parliament because they were Protestant and not necessarily because of the line of succession. When Mary died William remained as sole King. William III should not count as a King-Consort. William III was succeeded by Mary II’s sister Anne. She asked Parliament to make her husband King-Consort, but they refused. He became the first Prince-Consort effectively, as he was both a consort and already a Prince by birth as the son of King Frederick III of Denmark. His only English title was Duke of Cumberland. Queen Victoria wanted her beloved husband Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha to be named King-Consort, but was advised against it. He had become a prince when he married Victoria and was explicitly named Prince Consort after she became Queen. He thus became the second Prince-Consort, but the first official Prince-Consort. Elizabeth II was married to Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark/Mountbatten. He was a Prince of Greece and Denmark, but the Kingdom fell in his youth, making the title obsolete. He abandoned them to become a British Peer as Duke of Edinburgh in relation to his marriage to Princess Elizabeth. He was not then made a Prince and initially remained only Consort and Duke of Edinburgh even after Elizabeth became Queen. There was a discussion on what his title ought to be and Prince Consort, as with Albert, was considered. He was however then made Prince of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the same title that is awarded to the children of the Queen. Philip is in my opinion the third Prince-Consort (even though he held a slightly different title). After William III it seems like the distinction between King-Consort and Prince-Consort became important. He had his own claim, though his wife’s claim does appear to have been the more important. In order to prevent another King who ruled by right of the marriage of his late wife, the title Prince-Consort appears to have become more favoured. Additionally, Prince-Consorts are not anointed alongside their Queens, while Queen-Consorts are anointed alongside a King. In my opinion, if we count all the aforementioned consorts we have: Three King-Consorts, three Prince-Consorts, three consorts, and one King by marriage. Although arguments can be made for a different calculation. The title King-Consort was favoured in the 16th Century, King by marriage was favoured in the 17th Century, and Prince-Consort was favoured afterwards. There is no true medieval ruling queen of England and therefore no conclusion can be made which medieval title would have been favoured. But the earliest, Tudors and Stuarts, used the title King-Consort. I would therefore argue that, if the monarchy in Westeros is primarily based on Late Medieval England, the title of King-Consort for Daemon is completely logical.

@@MCAPrince First of all thank you for the comprehensive answer, that is indeed very interesting. Your initial remark is still the most important, because we dont know if Deamon wants to be called King-Consort, he wants to be called your grace, which is granted to a Queen-Consort and even a Queen-Dowager. I guess the surprise on Ser Simon was mostly that no one in Westeros thinks of Deamon as a ruler and no one wants to. As I said it was never a question in westerosi history, because precident ruled out a female monarch. That differs from english monarchy. Also none of those rules are properly codified in a House Law, which would have saved house Targaryen a lot of trouble in questions of succession.

@@MCAPrince I have one further question: In Westeros the house name of the royal house cannot be earned by marriage, only by inheritance (thats why Cersei is not named Baratheon, Elia Martell was never a Targaryen etc.). Is this a thing in english monarchy as well? Just out of curiosity since you seem to know a lot about it :)

​@@dr_buschy I can answer your questions. Firstly, about historical female monarchs in both Westeros and our world. There are many historical female monarchs who were disputed at the time and/or removed from historical records. Examples include Pharaoh Hatshepsut, various Ptolemaic Female Pharaohs (though they often had co-rulers, but sometimes both co-rulers were women), Zenobia of the Palmyrene Empire, etc. It is possible and seems likely to me that maesters could remove these ruling queens from the historical record to conform with their patriarchal society. It is also known that women could inherit Lordships, including those that had formerly been kingdoms, like Jeyne Arryn as Lady Paramount of the Vale. Then about the English monarchy. In its earlier for it was not that different from Westerosi law. George R.R. Martin took a lot of inspiration from Medieval England for his conflicts. It seems like the War of the Five Kings’ primary inspiration is the Wars of the Roses of Late Medieval England, which ended with the Tudor Dynasty and the first accepted ruling Queens (Mary I, Elisabeth I, and arguably Jane). It seems like the Dance of the Dragons is primarily inspired by ‘the Anarchy’. This is the conflict of Empress Mathilda and her cousin Stephen. Mathilda was the daughter of the final King of the House of Normandy King Henry I, while Stephen was the son of Adela of Normandy, a daughter of William the Conqueror. Both claimed the throne by right through a woman. The question was thus not, whether one could inherit through a female line, but rather if the woman herself could inherit. In House Targaryen this is better personified in the books during the Great Council of 131 AC. The conflict was not primarily between the Princess Rhaenys and Prince Viserys, but rather between Laenor and Prince Viserys. Laenor was favoured above Rhaenys because he was a man. He is our Stephen in this situation. However, Viserys was of the male line and was thus given precedent. (Or he was just liked better for other reasons, like being older than Laenor). Interestingly Matilda’s son removed Stephen and became King Herny II, the first of the House of Plantagenet. Arguably the argument that a daughter comes before a male cousin seems thusly to have won out, as the Plantagenet claim rests on it. This is part of the problem in the Wars of the Roses, where female descent becomes very important in the claim of House York. My point with this analysis is thus: There as no law in England regarding female inheritance at the time of Matilda, and it was really formulated until much later. As you can see by my previous analysis, even when it was codified laws were often changed and circumstances with female rulers weren’t really standardized until the Early Modern Period. Even then the rules for consorts (the cases of Prince Albert and Prince Philip) were not uniform. So the situation in medieval and late medieval England does seem to be very analogous to me to the situation in Westeros during the Dance of the Dragons. Specifically about the style ‘Your Grace’. Historically this was used by English monarchs until Henry VIII, who heard Emperor Charles V changed to ‘Your Majesty’ and didn’t want to be left behind. (King Francis I of France did the same). It was also used for their consorts. For the King-Consorts I mentioned (Philip II of Spain, Francis I of France, and Henry Stuart), they all used ‘Your Majesty’ if I recall correctly. They are from the Tudor Period, but that is as close as we can get to analogous. Therefore I do think the style of Your Grace would extend to a King-Consort in earlier periods and if taken as analogous to Westeros, I do think it would be applied there. I think the showrunners is to make both the characters and the viewers doubt whether Daemon attempts to become King in his own name, King by right of marriage to Rhaenyra, King and Co-Ruler to Rhaenyra, or just King-Consort. The fact that most people think the Consort of a Queen is a Prince-Consort awakens that thought even more in the viewer. Then about the houses and surnames. We don’t truly have a lawbook of Westeros and I’m not even sure if it would be included in one if we did. There are obviously laws regarding surnames in Westeros, though most of these seem to have to do with bastardy. There are often examples of wives being referred to by their husband’s name. Catelyn Tully as Catelyn Stark for example. This does not seem to be the case with the monarchs. I think this has primarily to do with stylisation. Catelyn Tully’s stylisation would be Lady Tully, or Lady Stark, or Lady Catelyn Tully/Stark. Quite often, in formal occasions they use only surnames. Lady Stark would thus refer to Catelyn Tully in her position as wife to Lord Stark of Winterfell. Lady Tully would have been her mother Winisia Whent during her marriage to Lord Hoster Tully. Before her marriage Catelyn would have been referred to as Lady Catelyn Tully, to denote she wasn’t the ruling Lady of Riverrun, nor the consort of the ruling Lord of Riverrun. This is not the case with monarchs. They mostly go by title + first name + regnal number. For example King Aegon II, King Jaehaerys I, etc. Nobody speaks of King Targaryen. The consort would thus be stylized the same, but without the regnal number. When announced, the houses do get mentioned but as such: Robert of the House Baratheon, the First of His name, King of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm. When the Queen would also be announced, the House of her Birth is likely to be used. This is also to honour the family that married into the Crown. However, this does not necessarily mean she has no legal right to her husband’s name. I do think that the conversation between King Viserys I and Lord Corlys Velaryon in season 1 may shed some light on this further. When they discuss the names of Laenor and Rhaenyra’s potential children they agree they take their father’s name, but as rulers they would take the name Targaryen. Even though Rhaenyra is to be the Queen Regnant, Laenor is not taking the name Targaryen. However, Rhaenyra is definitely not taking the name Velaryon either, at least not when she is Queen. I think this primarily shows that these rules are not set and can be changed basically by command of the King. I will explain the English analogy and conclude with what this could say about Westeros. In English history the Houses are not as important as they are in ASOIAF. At least not in the Medieval Period. Houses dit provide status of course, as they would denote ancient lineage and legitimacy, but were not that important otherwise. Many ‘houses’ are also anachronistic, and invented by historians. It was more about lines of succession and establishing legitimacy through lineage of a founder or legendary figure rather than House aggrandizement. This changed in later periods. The idea of joining a consort’s house is therefore also as important in the Medieval Period. This changed in modern times. When the Houses became more important. In England I think the first time Houses became important was the Wars of the Roses when there were longtime loyalists to Lancastrian and Yorkist lines of claimants (though both were arguably of the House Plantagenet). In the modern period Royal Houses became a different kind of propaganda tool. The House of Windsor exists because they didn’t want a German association, and the in the Netherlands the House of Orange-Nassau is also used through the female line to maintain a historical connection. In a 1917 proclamation it was declared that the male-line British descendants of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert would carry the name of the House of Windsor, but not the women who married into other families, they take their husband’s name. So these women do join their husband’s house. (This was later changed to maintain the House of Windsor in the case of a Queen Regnant and her descendants). The women of nobility did often take their husbands names and titles and were referred to as such, as can also be seen in the 1917 Proclamation. So this is analogous to the situation with Catelyn Tully. When announced however, names are not used for consorts in the United Kingdom. It is merely ‘Her Majesty the Queen’ for Queen Camilla. The ruler does use first name, but not a surname: King Charles III is: The Most High, Most Mighty and Most Excellent Monarch, our Sovereign Lord, Charles III, now, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories King, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, and Sovereign of the Most Noble Order of the Garter. There is no mention of the royal house there either. I think we can conclude that the situation with English monarchical houses is too different from the Westerosi ones to make a full conclusion whether houses of consorts can be used. I think it is legal for Westerosi consorts to use their husbands name, but it is not the custom.

The Hatfields and McCoys were two American families involved in a major land dispute from the middle of the Civil War period until the 1890s (over what is today the border of West Virginia & Kentucky.) A particularly bitter feud is often listed as a battle between "Hatfields and McCoys."

@mbgal07 Thanks for the information. I live in Canada, so didn't know anything about this. ? On my head when I heard it here and in the "behind the scenes" from Ryan Condal.

The show lost all credibility at that moment for me. It's like a scene right out of the A-Team. Made zero sense.

In the book Rook's Rest was under siege for 9 days before she sent Rhaenys and Meleys.

Blackwood 2 - Bracken 0

Which ones are the greens?

@@Psycho_SugarCraze Blackwood

That was young Rhaenyra

First he saw young Rhaenyra, then he saw Alys Rivers. I think the latter was actually standing there, instead of being a vision.

I'm pretty sure the dark-haired woman was real, and was the same one that cast a dark look at him when she entered the hall after Daemon arrived.

At first, I thought it would be Laena too

I think he's just trying to balance between what he knows and what 'we' the non book readers + Greta have seen. He's doing his best not spoiling scenes and even trying to give his speculations with confirming future events

Nope, I had a similar feeling. I felt like this episode was a lot of little details needed to set up all the fun stuff coming. Last week's episode was so amazing! This week's was fine, but not the best.

The dude is annoying, the woman is fine. Relax.

It's a joke. Criston doesn't deserve to be called by his actual name.

@@treecat125 Its a joke once... if they keep doing it despite commenters asking them not to. Its not really funny anymore. This podcast is impossible to listen to anyway. Although I do try.

Lol.... cry harder

@@Rash23215 Lol, glaze harder 🤡. I can’t imagine having such bad taste in media that I’d like this cringe ass podcast.

@@Rash23215 Lol, glaze harder. I couldn’t imagine having such bad taste in media that I’d be defending such a cringe podcast. I guess we know who their target audience is 🤡🤡🤡

Not a fan?

Meeting was suppose to give closure to Rhaenyra - she now knows Viserys wanted HER to be heir, and that Alicent is unswayed, so Rhaenyra now gonna fully commits to her cause and go to war.

@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 you get it.

@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 she did not risk her life and her whole enterprise for closure. closure is sthg that happened accidentally. she went there to reason with alicent as if she would take her son off the throne or even have the power to do so. and rhaenys saying how otto hightower would never have done this, when otto hightower conspired for ages while viserys was still alive to organize aegon’s succession, who had rhaenyra’s last loyal lords killed or imprisoned and who had to be convinced to give rhaenyra a chance to surrender without punishment. otto, poor dear, the very man who started the machinations for the war, which is all about killing the enemy, would never have sent an assassin after rhaenyra. also rhaenys was all mumbling about how no one will know when the war will have started, mentioning recent events, but comfortably forgetting how viserys did nothing to bolster his daughter’s power and number of allegiant lords, how viserys married alicent of all people, how the war will be catastrophic etc, when at this point there is no way but forward. and it has been like this for a good while, probably from the moment they crowned aegon in front of the masses. let’s hope that now she has the much awaited closure she’ll actually act in the direction of sthg she decided for a long time ago. in any case, i’m sick of fillers and dialogues of simulated wisdom from characters who are actually supposed to be wise or at least quasi-intelligent, but still say or do the dumbest shit. hope the writers have done better with the following episodes.

@@monicad99 Viserys couldn't predict everything. There was no opposition towarsd Rhaenyra during his reign and Alicent was on good terms with his daughter when he married her. People are not almighty beings. 'rhaenys saying how otto hightower would never have done this, when otto hightower conspired for ages while viserys was still alive to organize aegon’s succession' - Rhaenys doesn't know this. She was sitting locked up in room. Also, Otto was going to sent many knights to Dragonstone, not only one like Aegon did.

@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 he could predict that marrying the very young and probably fertile daughter of his conniving hand would end up badly. and that marrying either the velaryon girl or someone else, with less power and more maleability would be a better option. by the time laena would have been of an appropiate age for consumation, viserys would have probably been incapable of doing it, so it would have kept the coast clear for the succession. adversely, once he decided for a young wife and started to see that people were rallying for their son, he should have started doing something. give rhaenyra lands, armies, i don’t know, but something to make her more powerful, with more people only because of that behind her. he just let things lie and grow bigger and bigger till they were out of anyone’s control and started rolling over to the children, who once adults, they did what they learned in their childhoods and teenage years: to be one another’s enemy. in any case, the point was, not so much how viserys is guilty, but how rhaenys was driving the discourse: “oh, look, rhaenyra, you made the same mistake that happened to alicent, so you know, wallow around doing nothing, pretending to be wise and cautious,” when, at this point in time there is NO conciliatory stance to be taken. unless rhaenyra chooses to give up her claim(which clearly she doesn’t want to), there is no way but the one of war. and frankly, i don’t know how sending many knights is better than sending one: one, a twin to an allegiant knight, has stealth, many at once do not, and if they’re found out they can be easily burned by the dragons. so, …. also, who does rhaenys think was with the idea of locking her up? or in any case, even if it wouldn’t have been his idea, he would have known about it and obviously approved of it, as he didn’t order for someone to come to let her go. and from the swiftness of the coronation, one should deduce that it was pretty much planned ahead for while. rhaenys had one good moment, when she defended rhaenyra in front of that council of idiots(who probably want her away for their own share power grasping). and maybe the one with corlys.