How accurate are the green speeds in GS Pro? IN DEPTH TESTING!

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In this video I do some in depth testing to figure out if the green speeds in GS Pro are accurate!
Since making this video I had someone reach out to me and explain some of the physics behind GS Pros putting and some things to consider.
1. The camera LM's under report slow putts ball speed. The reason is that they measure the time between ball first and last positions in the field of view. Since the ball decelerates quite a lot in the first part especially for the slow putts. The error is significant.
2. GSPro putt rollout will always be different from real life because we assume 0 spin and no effect of skid and the break effect caused by the ball friction before it starts to roll in sync with speed. As for long putts. If you do the math and look at EyeXO and GCQ. As soon as we are above 8mph the speed error is minimal and the skid and roll effect is also much less. When the ball is rolling in sync with speed. The deceleration is same as what you will get from the stimp meter.
E.g. when the ball leaves the meter. it has 4.1 mph and is rolling in sync with speed. So no skid and break.
Putting is much, much more complicated than people usually assume. Unless we get accurate VLA and spin from the LM we will not be able to be much more accurate. To do this everyone would need to have a putting system that would be able to feed the data into GS Pro.
People that are going to see the biggest difference between indoors and out are going to be people that have a lot of loft on their putters and then also hit down on the ball and create more backspin. This outdoors will have a big effect on the putt that GS Pros current algorithm won't be taking into effect and thus they will see a big difference.
With that said GS Pro is always looking to improve! They are very aware of the difference and why it's happening.. this includes all game physics not just putting.
#benq #golf #golfsimulator #australia #simulatorgolf #gspro #uneekor #exputt

Опубликовано:

9 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 39

@JLagGOLF 18 дней назад

Since making this video I had someone reach out to me and explain some of the physics behind GS Pros putting and some things to consider. 1. The camera LM's under report slow putts ball speed. The reason is that they measure the time between ball first and last positions in the field of view. Since the ball decelerates quite a lot in the first part especially for the slow putts. The error is significant. 2. GSPro putt rollout will always be different from real life because we assume 0 spin and no effect of skid and the break effect caused by the ball friction before it starts to roll in sync with speed. As for long putts. If you do the math and look at EyeXO and GCQ. As soon as we are above 8mph the speed error is minimal and the skid and roll effect is also much less. When the ball is rolling in sync with speed. The deceleration is same as what you will get from the stimp meter. E.g. when the ball leaves the meter. it has 4.1 mph and is rolling in sync with speed. So no skid and break. Putting is much, much more complicated than people usually assume. Unless we get accurate VLA and spin from the LM we will not be able to be much more accurate. To do this everyone would need to have a putting system that would be able to feed the data into GS Pro. People that are going to see the biggest difference between indoors and out are going to be people that have a lot of loft on their putters and then also hit down on the ball and create more backspin. This outdoors will have a big effect on the putt that GS Pros current algorithm won't be taking into effect and thus they will see a big difference. With that said GS Pro is always looking to improve! They are very aware of the difference and why it's happening.. this includes all game physics not just putting.

@hoktonfonx 18 дней назад

I feel like the alignment from the EyeMini is much more sensitive (HLA) depending on where the ball is in the hitting area. If you don't put the ball in the same place every time, then there is a greater disparity. This is probably the #1 issue I see with having to set up and tear down my Sim every time I want to play. I end up having to set up my alignment based on where I'm setting up my putts, instead of the middle of my hitting strip or my putts will be grossly off. I use the range for my alignment. I put my putting strip down, put 10 footers until I feel like my putting stroke matches what I see on GSPRO then set alignment to 0.0 there. I agree with the speed/stimp. GSPRO stimp is very accurate.

@peekps 16 дней назад

Thanks, Joe. Very informative and helpful as usual. Got the Eye Mini Lite--so far, so great.

@JLagGOLF 15 дней назад

Yeah I'm sure the EML is a fantastic device! Hopefully one day I will be able to use one and review it.

@lukethegooner 17 дней назад

I would be stoked if you could do a similar test with a Bushnell (either the Launch Pro or one of the GCs). I had been wondering lately how accurate the putting is so this is a great vid. Thank you for doing this.

@JLagGOLF 16 дней назад

Thanks mate I really appreciate that! I'd love to do it it's just getting access to the devices in Australia that's really hard as I have to buy them all! 🤣 On the GC3 though when I had my friend loan me his the ball speeds were pretty much identical to what I see on my eye mini! I couldn't tell the difference when I swapped them out and played GS Pro.

@michaelbittel2618 18 дней назад

Glad you are doing this. The other thing I have noticed is the ball rollout on chipping. I have a very good short game and use Prov 1 golf balls. I set the sim to 8 stimp and soft greens to represent the types of greens I play locally. When I chip on a local course, I use a 56 degree wedge and when hitting a normal chip the ball will hit the green roll a bit and check up pretty quickly. I have never had a ball one hop and stop in GSPro. I don't think I have ever seen some one do it and I watch a lot of videos. When I play in GSPro I have to use a lob wedge to chip and still the ball rolls out. When I go outside and try a lob wedge on a chip shot, it checks up way short. I have to adjust on the fly. I love GSPro so it isn't really a complaint, I just have to adjust to it. Just an observation.

@JLagGOLF 18 дней назад

Hey Michael thanks for that mate and yes absolutely you are right. Grain is also a VERY hard thing to simulate as well.. I think grain depending on what type of greens people play on really makes chipping difficult outside.. hit a shot dead into it and the ball will react completely differently to down grain for example. Ball physics chipping being part of that I'm sure is something GS Pro is constantly looking to improve! In my opinion it's already the best physics out there but still needs some improvement like you said and I'm sure they are working on it.

@michaelbittel2618 18 дней назад

I imagine it is tough to simulate. But I have played enough to see a big difference in the way the ball behaves. Have you ever hit a short chip - 10 yards with a slightly open face on a lob wedge and have it check up in GSPro? Outside it does. I have never been able to in GSPro. I please if you feel to, try to hit a one hop and stop in GSPro. You are certainly good enough to do it outside.

@OMG-2 18 дней назад

@@JLagGOLF I really think it would be great to bring in a course designer to tell us if they have the ability to stipulate things like grain and grass type for anything more than color. Bent vs Bermuda vs Zoysiagrass could make a big difference in the way GSPro could manage their ball speed and roll out algorithms. It is really hard to complain about putting on a green without a single ball mark or aeration treatments that also show you the slope and impact it could have on path. Even the best heat map I can get isn’t that good LOL

@poidash1 17 дней назад

It would be nice if GSPRO could ad a speed slide adjustment to set up for your own sim. It doesn't need to be that accurate it just needs to be closer to feel/real. If your turf is 9.5 stimp and you putt 10ft. It should read around 10ft not 15ft. Thanks for the video Joe. I have ST+ GSPRO is working well but the putting in my eyes could be slower. Cheers

@cbsites4127 18 дней назад

I agree 100%! I measure my stimp on my mat and it came to stimp 8. So when you putt a local 4ft it's like putting 6ft on stimp 10. At the higher stimps it can be really challenging for short putts as the ball speed is exaggerated. The other critical issue to look at with the Uneekor Eye is the putt surface has to be completely level for the image capture. If not you will get an added HLA that biases the putt to one direction or the other. It's take a while to understand my putting with my Eye Mini light. I asked Allexx to add a slider dialog to adjust for local stimp. In the app I found that if I reduced the ball speed 20% it made a putt 'feel' correct for distances at stimp 10 and it did. I was much better putting with the Allexx putting (and this mod) than I've been with the Eye Mini. The question it bring up is does the sim putting with Eye mini train you to putt too lightly?

@OMG-2 18 дней назад

I think you nailed the issue in the first couple of sentences in this video. The problem is feel vs real. We are conditioned by the courses we play and I believe on course I have to hit a putt almost 2 times as hard as I do in GSPro. In my SIM setup I have to target as much as 1/3 of the distance in I need in GSPro. I feel like GSPro and the EyeMini get it right, so much so I have been trying to figure out how to incorporate a faster surface in my SIM without luck. I also have a BirdieBall putting surface for putting practice that is tested and sold at stump 10-11 depending on direction. In feels like glass compared to the courses I play which drives me crazy because I leave putts short too many times on course. You have inspired me to do a GSPro test on my BirdieBall putting surface to see how it matches up - I will come back here to update in a couple days.

@JLagGOLF 16 дней назад

Fantastic mate! I completely agree did you check out the pinned comment there is a LOT that goes into the physics with putting.

@mrserv0n18 18 дней назад

Thanks for the stimp chart. That literally changed my game instantly and now it makes total sense, I am actually sinking putts now. And I thought you might be interested , I cleaned some ball marks off my club face by wetting my finger. Thought I dried it off but must of been moisture in the wedge grooves, My ball did a total 90 degree duff complete misread and that never happens to me. So I am wondering maybe your hands are getting sweaty in those tour matches and your wiping the face off after shots with your hand. I could lead to a misread.

@tedtryka1198 16 дней назад

With an original ExPutt, I tested that a 10 Stimp was equal to an 11 Stimp in GSPro. For your turf, it might be hard to get an accurate reading since you start from a hitting mat, go over a stance mat before hitting your putting turf.

@JLagGOLF 15 дней назад

Thanks for the message mate and yes that's pretty much what I've got to! It's just under a 1 stimp change between them for me. So it's pretty much exactly the conclusion you came to! 👍

@user-df5pq4gr7c 18 дней назад

Brilliant video, thanks for taking the time and attention to detail. I which scenarios do you find yourself using more the exputt? Would you say the skytrak + and the eye mini would be comparable on putting measurements?

@brettacorn1144 18 дней назад

Great video Joe! very informative, now I wish you would do one where you compare the HLA of both units? If I was reading your x putt screen correctly there is a large variation between x putt and Eye mini/GSPro? how accurate do you think those are? I constantly question the reads from my BLP.

@nellynelson9387 18 дней назад

Would be interested in seeing a gc3 comparison for putting as im always leaving putts short in on a real course

@JLagGOLF 18 дней назад

I can honestly say the GC3 vs eye mini I cannot tell the difference. I was using my mates GC3 for a few weeks and played shot rounds with it and putting speed and HLA felt absolutely identical. The GC quad was very different however lol I had to hit it harder than I usually do! I was leaving all my putts short.

@nellynelson9387 18 дней назад

Thanks for the feedback. Think I'm going to try and calibrate my hitting surface to gspro for practice. But honestly I've been really enjoying fsx play atm. Can you add a target line to gspro when playing btw?

@JjJj-yw1eu 18 дней назад

Great video. The summary I'm seeing is, neither are accurate to real putting. If gs is innacutate and ex agrees, they're both inaccurate, reflexive property of math(s) 😅 looks like both off by 50%

@georgespurs 18 дней назад

Did some quick math, the first 4 putts in the room were between 68% and 71% of GSPro's distance. Curious, did you run the stimp over the exact same putting area?

@JLagGOLF 17 дней назад

Yes the exact area.. did you see the pinned comment I put in the comments section it might help explain what's going on. Really interesting stuff and I got a really good insight into how the physics work in all these golf softwares.

@fandorm 18 дней назад

Actually, looking at one of the putts you made you had a ball speed of 4.2mph according to the gspro screen and that putt went just over 9 feet in gspro. That matches up for me because usually they say that the ball leaves the stimp meter at about 4mph. So given 4mph and 9 in stimp then the ball should roll 9 feet. Which is kind of correct in gspro then. So either the measurement from your Eye mini is wrong (reading to much speed) or your floor is slower than 9. GSpro seems to be correct

@juhakahilainen384 18 дней назад

Hi Joe! I noticed that e.g. for a 37’5” Exputt putt you stated the GSPro distance to be 34’2” for a 11,4 meter total distance (GSPro screen number). 11,4 meters actually equals 37’5”. How did you come up with that 34+ number?

@JLagGOLF 16 дней назад

Good pickup mate I may have done the math incorrectly for that one!!

@juhakahilainen384 16 дней назад

@@JLagGOLF I see the same for most (all?) of the GSPro numbers. Maybe you’ve multiplied the meter numbers by 3, while the correct meters-to-feet multiplier is actually 3.28? Sorry for nitpicking your excellent work!

@JLagGOLF 16 дней назад

@@juhakahilainen384Ahh I just saw you said metres! My GS Pro is set to show yards and feet! Imperial 👍

@juhakahilainen384 16 дней назад

@@JLagGOLFok, got it 😅 So your GSPro screen shows the Total Length in yards! My bad, couldn’t get over thinking that it must be meters…

@soupy01833 18 дней назад

I cant speak of the EML but the xo is .5 mph faster on putting than a gcquad. I did a test with them running at the same time

@JLagGOLF 17 дней назад

Thanks Soupy! I used a quad a few times and the putting honestly felt far too slow for me. The eye mini and GC3 funnily enough felt the exact same and both felt more accurate to what I would expect outside! The GC quad I hit a putt and I was thinking if I hit it like that outside on stimp 12 it's absolutely gone lol

@berndog509 18 дней назад

Just curious but your wind on GS PRO??? Think it's taking that into consideration?😅

@JLagGOLF 15 дней назад

No GS Pro doesn't take wind into consideration with putting.. It would be kind of cool if it did because in real life it is a very important factor.

@hendrikhoffmann875 18 дней назад

It looks to me like the rolling behavior of the ball in GS Pro was tested with a stimp meter reading of 6 feet and designed accordingly. For example, on greens with a speed of 6 feet and a slope of 4 degrees, the ball rolls about twice as far (instead of 5 meters, the ball rolls 10 meters). At a speed of 9 feet, the behavior changes significantly, and with the same slope, the ball rolls four times as far because gravity has a greater influence relative to the rolling resistance of the ball. This aspect was not considered in GS Pro, which makes it difficult to translate the game experience to reality. If this part of the game is improved, the gameplay experience will be incredible!

@PJo336 18 дней назад

huh that's interesting and would definitely explain a lot of peoples' feelings that it is off

@URAZKIVANER 18 дней назад

the best way to test these is to go to a golf club take both machines go to the putting green and find the straightest part of the putting area . Use a water balance meter to verify the slopes. Then test the stimpmeter using official tools then do your test. Or go to a basketball courtyard find a long hallway carpet which is similar to what exputt uses then test again against the realworld. No need to test against other simulators... Just remove the human bias ... 😉😉 Because if we are talking about data everything needs to be by the data no human feelings 😊😊

@berndog509 18 дней назад

I see the flag blowing.