Basically if Siegfried hadn't willingly died in the Nasuverse compared to the original myth, Kreimhild would be significantly more "justified" and such an Avenger. That single difference explains the difference and I appreciate it.
It's logic is honestly excellent. She could have been an Avenger if Siegfried hadn't willingly died. Because of that her revenge was rendered pointless by the person she was trying to avenge. If she had failed at revenge or had died after achieving it she would have been fine to become an Avenger. But Siegfried himself prevented that.
Kriemhild has a second Noble Phantasm named 'Hört Glut Rachegötter'. Not much is known about it but what is known is that it can set groups of enemies on fire and is based on the event where she sets the tent in which Hagen, Gunther and their Entourage were fighting on fire in the middle of Hun Territory..
- Bring a servant that was foreshadowed many times on the past; - bring a hyped and beloved artist to draw her(everybody can complain about Apocrypha story but the characters design are peak); - bring a even more hyped voice actress to voice her(I've never watched Kaguya Sama but I respect the popularity); - make her a broken unit for both farming and boss fights. This is how Typemoon/ Lasengle makes infinite money.
I actually think Apocrypha's story was probably one of the best in Fate, plus Kriemhild was only mentioned a few times. She never appeared in Apo anime.
In Fate a servant's class is dictated by many factor: their myth, ability, connection, etc. And each class there're summoned into represent a moment or an aspect of the character. For Kriemhild it's heavily imply that this is the moment after she had her revenge at the man who she think are responsible for her husband's death, only to find out that the man behind it was actually the husband himself. The mix of rage, hatred, the felt of betrays and the sense of love must have drove her to madness, thus being a Berserker.
Another reason Kriemhild was quick to accuse Hagan was that in the source material, Hagan asked Kriemhild what Siegfried's weakness was under the pretense of "to protect him in battle" to which she not only complied but even stitched a cross where Siegfried was vulnerable. So the list of suspects for an inside job for Siegfried's murder was a short list as other than her, only one other person could have known who killed him, and insult to injury, she was deceived into quite literally to put a bull's eye on Siegfried's back.
I appreciate Kreimhild being a Berserker since its cool to have the Nasuverse change something and have the myth affected by it. I really like Kreimhild as a character and was glad she is both tragic but also dangerous. Also love the detail that Kreimhild is crying in her NP.
so your happy with the justification for her entire story being a lie and her killing a lot of people for no honest reason your ok with character assassination
There is another major tangent I cut out of these two videos. I'm actually going to make an extra video specifically on it. I'm writing the script for it right now. :3
Apparently in type moon lore the fact that balmung looks so different between Siegfried and Kriemhild is that it changes from a holy sword (Siegfried) or a demon sword like gram (Kriemhild) due to the disposition of whoever uses it. Holy for someone like Siegfried or Seig angry and demonic under Kriemhild. Something to do with how balmung is descended from gram.
Kreimhild's vengeance is based on a lie that's the big difference between her and Avengers. They say so in Traum. Like they legit address this. Her revenge wasn't necessary like Avengers. She's a feral dog lashing out at people in madness after knowing Seigfried effectively killed himself, that doesn't really describe Avengers. If she didn't know she'd be an Avenger but she knows her revenge trip is pretty pointless.
great job with the video! I would like to note that Kriem does have a line for Brynhilde and Sigurd. ****MINOR SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE EITHER OF THOSE SERVANTS***** She calms herself down since she acknowledges that our Bryn and the bryn from her story are 2 very different people and even invites her to tea, with the freedom to decline if she didnt want to. Unfortunately, such kindness isnt extended to Sigurd as she finds him irritating, being a regional/story variant of Sigfired didnt do him any favors
Which is funny because in her line for Summer Bryn, she actually expresses concern over Bryn's....fervent love and affection for Sigurd, particularly the entire stabbing bit
There's an interesting detail I noticed in Balmung's design: during Siegfried's Noble Fantasm, he sorta turns the handle of the sword, revealing a blue gem that (to me, at least) resembles an eye. Kriemhild's version of Balmung also has a huge eye in it (granted, it's in the sword's guard, not the hilt, but still). I wonder if this detail means anything, it reminds me of the No Name/Gazing Eye Keyblade from Kingdom Hearts :v
10:07 ok for context aoi voiced kaguya now when it was valentines kaguya was trying to decide whether to get shirogane(her bf) a chocolate from the store or hand made now iirc hayasaka insisted on making it handmade however upon making it kaguya was nervous that shirogane might not like the chocolates but to her surprise shirogane loves it, also hayasaka gave shirogane chocolates for valentines but with kaguyas(she was kinda jealous at first but got over it) approval so does that suggest brynhildr will also give siegfried a chocolate lol. P.s I finished reading kaguya sama back in 2022 so I might be wrong(slightly) on my context lol.
To add to the video a bit: Kriemhild's 2nd ascension, while as you said has the "red is for revenge" thing going on, is also heavily inspired by "Tracht". Tracht is traditional German(ic) clothing which today is usually only worn on national holidays, especially in the south of Germany (Bavaria, yknow "Oktoberfest" region) where there's a lot of smaller towns and their festivals. Her hat and chest piece especially remind me of it. Tho Tracht usually isn't black/red at all and instead white/green or white/blue with brown tones, but the recolor fits Kriem much better. Great video as always man
As a former WoW player who quit in 2019 after the Blitzchung controversy? I'm still a little bitter. Since I was talking about retcons, Blizzard popped into my head because of their notorious history of doing them. That's how most of the silly bits and jokes I add to these videos come about: stuff I just think of in the spur of the moment while writing things out. :D
@@CrazyYurie I'm a little too invested to quit unless they brick the game (started playing in 2007 at 6 years old) but the damage all the retcons of Shadowlands did still stings. Latest patch story gives me hope though
Same, as a former wow player who stopped playing around the time BFA was out and a long time player since I was FIVE YEARS OLD around the time Wotlk came out, I felt that comment HARD.
@@brunosanto3488 You mean... what characters from history or myth would be most similar to them? Mmm... that's a tough one. It doesn't help that I quit WoW a while ago, and so I don't know where those characters have progressed since - except for Garrosh since he's dead.
It's also worth noting that her NP stripping defensive buffs is no doubt a reference to how she attacked Hagen only when he was defensless. Now that is how you do gameplay-lore integration.
It was mentioned in the last video about Siegfried turning into a dragon and how that is weird. But it actually has to do with the curse of the Rheingold. As you mentioned when talking about Sigurd, someone turned into a dragon to protect the Rheingold. In Fate, the Nasuverse, the curse of the Rheingold seems to be greed. And it's that same greed that turns one into a dragon. Siegfried contracted the curse of the Rheingold, but was able to stave it off through his life. But as a Servant it comes into play and grants him more draconic features. This is also why Sieg became Fafnir. "Fafnir" is not a single dragon. Rather, Fafnir is a type of dragon. Dragons born from greed. When someone is greedy enough, they become Fafnir. Albeit, Sieg himself wasn't greedy enough to become Fafnir, however he had Siegfried's heart. Siegfried had the curse of the Rheingold, and since he had his heart, so too did Sieg. So, he became Fafnir in the end. Sigurd and Siegfried both killed Fafnir. A different Fafnir to each other. It is also explicitly noted that Siehfried's Fafnir was black with blue eyes, while Sigurd's Fafnir was white with blue eyes... and Sigurd's VA did Kaiba in Yu-Gi-Oh, who is connected to the "Blue Eyes White Dragon". So Sigurd's Fafnir is a reference to Yu-Gi-Oh. Also, in the Scandinavian Lostbelt, it is mentioned that Surtr was becoming Fafnir as well. It mentions him growing "invisible wings and horns" like that of a dragon. If I remember correctly, Surtr willingly did it to get more power. However, Sigurd notes that this was a mistake, as Gram does extra damage against dragons... and since Surtr was partly Fafnir, it actually made the King of Muspelheim weaker in their fight. Surtr done goofed. So that's why Siegfried has the dragon stuff. It's Das Rheingold's fault. Fuck Fafnir, all my homies hate Fafnir.
Kriemhild having no skill with a sword is indeed one of the main factors why she lost to Siegfried in their duel during Traum. Kriemhild was not a warrior, she had no fighting experience. The only reason she had the initial edge against Siegfried in their battle was due to her being powered by two holy grails. Once Kadoc helped Siegfried by having Viy transfer their Mystic Eye power to Siegfried, the dragonslayer was able to beat his wife Yes when Kriemhild and Altera wed, there was no love between them at all. It's implied that the wedding was planned and done by Altera's retainers, since Altera herself had next to no human emotions in life. To Kriemhild, Altera and her forces were the best weapons she could use for her revenge. So yeah there never was anything deep between Kriemhild and Altera
What I find even more cool is that she improved balmung siegfried had it very basic mean while she puts the eye of salron on it and plus her dialogue makes her sound like a angry mother so that pretty funny 2
I love how behind every great germanic warrior hides an even scarier vengeful wife who's going to make you and all your descendants meet an horrible fate
I tossed in Higurashi because I was mentioning Siegfried being a "decoy protagonist", which made me think of Keiichi. I should rewatch that someday. The older animes, mind you. The ones supposedly made in more recent years do not exist, and nobody shall convince me otherwise. >_
I see Kriemhild qualifying for the saber class for the same reason Jason can be a saber. It is possible for Kriemhild to be a saber but it is most likely a horrible setup for her, unlike Berserker or Avenger.
I mean as inaccurate as she might be due to the shift around Siegfried and Hagen, I do have to admit that it does make for an entertaining story all the same. And nicely contrasts the relationship Sigurd and Brynhildr have, which is in spite of everything (like Sigurd being very much in mortal danger in her presence) rather wholesome.
18:48 I really love to see there relationship together especially with there contrast with Sigurd and Brunhildr relationship Siegfried is my favorite long time servant so see him with his wife again is a big plus in my books
if I had a nickel every time a wife of a rightcious semi and or part dragon, dragonslayer wanting to kill their husband I would have 2 nickels with isn't a lot but it's weird that it happed twice.
Siegfried (Fate) on his knees about to die : Hmm did I forget anything... oh oh god I forgot to tell my wi-- Siegfried : Well I'm sure nothing too bad will happen... *several years later* Well that was a mistake.
I know this is random, but I would love to see a double date between Siefried & Kremhild and Sigurd & Brynhildr: it would either be incredibly wholesome or incredibly chaotic... Or both😂 Speaking of chaotic: you REALLY should check out Love is War❤
To be honest? If her character hadn't been changed in order to make her backstory match the changes made to Siegfried? I easily could have seen myself giving her an A.
Absolutely love these videos that you are doing, subbed and eagerly waiting for more. I love that you mentioned the connection to the Lord of the Rings and the Nibelung. I am rubbing my hands together waiting for The Boy Charlemagne and by extension Karl/Charles the Great, one of my favorite historical characters that i studied in school.
@CrazyYurie it's a reference to Library of Ruina, I'll put spoiler tag in case if anyone want to check it out one day . . . . . . One of the main character, Roland, after certain event that took lіves of many people, and one of them was his wife, Angelica, lost his sanity. The immense loss of his wife drove Roland to the brink of madness and drove him on a rampaging revenge spree against several groups that he thought had anything to do with the said event, which included both syndicates and fixers(mercenaries) alike, and he killed *a lot of people*, later on we find out the person he was working under most of the game was the cause of the event and held his grudges against said person til the end of the game. Also he is a reference to Roland from Orland Furiosa. "Boohoo my wife is dead" is a meme originated from Roland LoR as a funnier way to say about his whole situation(and Kriem in this case with boohoo my husband is dead), and he and Kriemhild would be drіnkіng buddies
@@benaressu Is that so? I was under the impression that Angelica was the person who Roland pined for, but found out she was interested in someone else? Him finding that out being what led to his nude rampage.
@@CrazyYurieYea that is what exactly happened in the poem(I think), however like fate series, project moon does changes to fit the narrative to their own universe lore, so it's not 100% adaptation, but the key figures and moments in the story remained. Example of Roland's rampage after loss of Angelica(tho he was not nudе when doing it), pm ver of Astolfo was also who confronted Roland to stop his rampage, one of the main antagonist name is Argalia(tho he's from Orlando Innamorato, not Furioso), who in the game and poem was Angelica's brother, having a partner/foil figure named Olivier, owning a Durandal as their signature weapon, and Charlemagne having his own office of mercenaries consist of all 12 people based on paladins, including Roland. Biggest changes are Angelica being married to Roland comparing to in the poem where she was interested in another guy, also got prеgnаnt before the event that killed not only her but other 300k people, and that incident is connected to PM's previous game Lоbоtomy Cоrpоration
Oh and PM also genderbended some of the literature mcs in their 3rd game Limbus Cоmpаny, example Faust from Mephistopheles, Don Quixote, Ishmael from Moby Dіck, ect. Idk just saying cuz why not
Funny that you mention the topic of making Retcons to Fate/Apocrypha when, in reality, FGO always tries to avoid talking about what happened in Fate/Apocrypha and, if necessary, they say that it happened in another universe or another timeline (so prevent Servants that appear in Fate/Apocrypha to having memories of what happened there) There is the case of Sieg: according to FGO, there are two Sieg: one who lived through the events of Fate/Apocrypha and stayed with Jeanne. Meanwhile, the other Sieg is the one who stayed in Chaldea and is a good companion of Ritsuka. Something similar happens with Anastasia: actually, in FGO, two Anastasias were summoned: one died and the other lived with Chaldea.
It’s cause servants summoned are just copies of the original in the throne and while some servants do remember when they usually don’t remember it’s cause the info didn’t make it back to the throne, big example is Jeanne of apocrypha which didn’t return to the throne at all, Jeanne in the throne knows a little bit but for the rest the other Jeanne is still around. In Anastasia’s case she does remember but do to how she was summoned aka incomplete this Anastasia has a personality all of her own cause of missing information of her own life aka they became 2 different people, the Anastasia we summon is how Anastasia should be when lostbelt Anastasia dosnt match the one in the throne her info was still recorded cause of Chaldea as such our Anastasia remembers but it’s like she is seeing someone else as she is tormented by her other self actions, to the point she tried to yeet herself. As for Sieg the one we meet in the apo event is still the one from apocrypha he just hasn’t reached the moment in time he reunites with Jeanne and to help us he makes a caster class copy of himself which is the welfare servant we get
Woah, woah, woah. I had to pause the video... You haven't watched Kaguya-Sama? You GOTTA fix that, my man. It is, in my opinion, the best RomCom anime of all time, if not just the best romcom in general no matter the medium. I watched it on a whim a couple years ago and fell in love with it instantly. Watched all three Seasons, saw the movie in theaters when it had a limited release, and read the entire manga, too. HIGH recommend. It is the main reason I rolled for Kriemhild. I wanted Kaguya in my Chaldea. XD
@@CrazyYurie Toradora was my previous favorite anime romcom. Kaguya blew it out of the water. Give it a shot. If you are not sold after episode one, I will be shocked. lol
My problem with what the Avenger class has become in FGO is that classes should be determined by what someone's abilities were, not what motived them. In the original story of Stay Night the Avenger class was implied to exist only for Angra Manyu and I don't think Nasu much paid attention to what the word meant.
Not really the reason people think it’s only for angra is cause it was a cheat class shoe horned in by the einzbern to try to win the war that’s why people think it’s was meant only for angra when in reality there was no such limit, also the 7 of the og classes are tied to their weapons and methods because they are the 7 classes that are tied to the grand seats which the servant system was copied from the 7 grands and made a less powerful version to summon aka once they knew how to make a class, no stuff stopped them from creating a new class based on new requirements, aka it’s not nasu forgot its people misinterpreted
@@Kuudere-Kun we don’t exactly know yet precisely, seem that it tends to be about the person being impartial to the situation when being summoned as a ruler, however this dosnt stop them from changing their mind about a subject later, example being amakusa shirou which didn’t desire the grail but than changed his mind. We will have to see when ordeal call 3 comes out
I feel like the Kreimhild in Fate is not really like Kriemhild in Nibelungenlied completely because the myth one is kind and loving to Siegfried. She is more like Kreimhild and Brunhilde combined, because Brunhilde was the one who act more agressive with her husband (Gunther) and then Siegfried had to restrain her.
Why you gave both of them so low scores? I can understand Siegfried`s even though I would give him a bit higher point but Kriem? She's much better then some other ones in accuracy
It's characterization - her being changed because of Siegfried's own story being changed. It completely alters her motivations as a servant. If it wasn't for that? She probably could have gotten an A.
@@CrazyYurie I still think that this shouldn't lower this much. In the end this changed her story only in the end and our time. Her historic part was very accurate
@@pakboris2268 Perhaps. But I couldn't give her a high grade in good conscience since, even if its only one change? It has a huge knock-on effect upon her characterization. x_x
That... may be too provocative. Besides, if he really was added to the game? I will immediately make a JP account, roll for him, and then make a meme video of me using him as fodder for Chen Gong.
