CarVertical: www.carvertica... Instagram: Saving_salvage In today's video we strip down the engine on my damaged Audi R8 and get a price breakdown on potential repair options.
I would go with option 3 used engine, you can always try and inspect it using a small camera on the piston chambers and see if there's any shadows or possible score marks, and then spend the rest on refurbishing it, and would be less of a loss on the purchase...
I would buy the car with the brand new engine, if you’re selling the car on , you will definitely attract buyers with a higher price as will have a new factory built engine & I’ll guess some kind of warranty
what he said......a second hand engine shouldn't be too risky if you do these checks....Might be worth checking the mileage though..if your engine has done 50k miles and second hand is 150k miles then the resale value is less...
I'd go for option 1, the new engine because that's what I'd prefer to buy as well... new Audi engine is what you want as a buyer. But also consider this, there are plenty of saleable parts off the old engine, like the other head and bits and pieces that could knock a couple of grand off that price too. If you can negotiate a better deal with your dealer on it too, it'll save you loads of work and headaches and you won't be that far off the cost of the other options.
Could also take him years to get that money back and its alot of money to have tied up in parts to sell one at a time. Plus it'd be a ball ache posting all that. Then returns and refunds. Most people that can afford that car wont buy used parts on the internet etc
Also. If that were an option. Then rhe 2nd hand engine would make more sense. He could, over time potentially make money on the purchase. Obviously check the used engine. Scope it and find out why it was removed etc. Usually there's some warranty with a purchase like that.
I would go with option 3...but like others have said..borescope, compression check,pull all the plugs and get one if possible with a full service history...Also...let's see the next project....👍👍👍👍
Agree with above as the best option. If that doesn't work out, I'd suggest refurbishing the existing block with steel cylinder liners and adding new forged pistons/conrods. Then you'd have a bulletproof engine that should last longer than Audi's original design, and that would also add more value to the car.
@@DJDinaggio Converting to steel cylinder liners is very risky. Saw on another channel something similar (but can remember if it was allu block with steel cylinder or the other way around) and after 1000 km engine got destroyed. Because of difference in heat expansion of steel vs allu cylinders, your piston ring gaps should also differ from what Audi states in their repair manual for a allu cylinder with the stock piston.
I'd pick Option 2 re-liner and new pistons. It will be bullet proof and you are replacing all the damaged stuff that would otherwise be risky. I think it would also be the one that a buyer would be most comfortable with, besides a new engine.
Hiya Dean, at the risk of getting shot down here is the Audi V8 not used in other Audi models through the range? If you just need a block/bottom end is it feasible to use one from another Audi model car if they are the same? M539 restorations did this when he rebuilt his V8.
Personally I’d go with option 3 but ask if you can have a look at it first and look down all the bores down the spark plug tube, and ask about it’s history.
Hi Dean. After discovering your channel by chance, I've binge watching all your videos since the beginning. Keep up the good work. As for the R8, in an ideal world the new engine would be the choice but option 4 has the less risk out of the others and you would know what you got in the end. If I were to buy the car, option 4 is what I would prefer. As for the next project, I miss the RS6 and it's a good time to get it back on the road. Cheers!
For option 4 you should also factor in at least a couple of Conrods as when you have valve heads bouncing around in the combustion chamber there's a good chance you could bend them. Can I make a suggestion you may want to consider having the bores looked at, at an aluminium bore specialist and having them bored or honed out and re nikasil plated (depends on the depth of the damage)
these engines are not nikasil plated. they use an aluminum alloy called Alusil that is high in silicon. The bore surface is honed using a paste that etches the aluminum but leaves the little microscopic silicon nodules. This creates a perfect surface on the bores for oil to stick. These cannot be honed or plated in the traditional manner
Hi Dean, i would only have 2 options, Option 1 & 3. Option 1 if I'm keeping it, option 3 if I'm selling it. Thanks for all the great video's and great channel.👍👍
Not being an engineering expert in any way I’d lean towards option 4 however if I was buying this car form you I’d know it’s in top condition as you can literally watch it being built from the ground up! The videos are amazing .. as always good luck with the rebuild!!
I'm no car mechanic but this is addictive. It reminds me of 'Take Hart' and Morph when I was a kid -especially the sounds. PS - Gotta be Option 3 (should you get a good feeling with /know/trust the seller)
Really? I thought that was the worst option of the lot. Audi never designed this high performance engine to use steel liners. The work is highly risky and doesn’t guarantee a reliable product in the end.
No doubts about going for the second hand engine. You still have a long way to go rebuilding and you know the components you have to work with have suffered some serious mechanical stresses, not to mention heat. There is the question around why it happened in the first place too. The loose nut! So, having just been faced with a similar issue in the last several weeks, I would go for the used engine, but be picky about where you get if from. Finally, I am a likely buyer for this kind of car. The option I would be most happy with is the used engine with provenance. The car is used, and has clearly had a issue. The engine rebuild is unproven, whereas a used engine from an identified damaged vehicle is a no brainer. Personally, I would walk away from anything less. That's just my penny's worth.
Option 3 or 3+. You are very capable mehanic and i think isn't that risky as you worry. If you can to check a cilynders of the used engine before you buy it i think then the risk will be small.
Option four for me from both perspectives. From a buyers viewpoint it’s the damaged components have been replaced and all other components have been check during disassembly and assembly. From your perspective the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t. Appreciate it’s not the cheapest option but it is the safest and can also be used as a selling point.
Hi Dean - I was leaning towards the 'ebay' engine, until you said which option would I be happy to buy. Therefore, it has to be your favourite - option 4. Looking forward to the content, whichever way you end up going. Love the channel, and look forward to every episode....😁
No different to any other. Any R8 could of had major repair work done to it. A new engine would increase the value slightly. A rebuilt one with a new crankcase would retain value. As long as everything works as it should.
I'd be picking option 4 Dean. You don't know the history of the secondhand engine so why risk it, plus you know this one had low miles before the engine failure and it makes sense to rebuild it with all new parts. Even if you have to spend a few quid more it'll be practically a new engine again, not a part secondhand one. GL with your choice I look forward to watching the builds :)
I would go with the used engine but an R8 engine for 5k sounds too cheap man. If you can find one that a breaker is willing to provide a 3 month warranty on or allow you to fully inspect or hear running prior to removal- that’s the route i would go. Then at-least you will have a full engine and can recoup some money back on the parts you have for yours
Option 3 would be my choice as long as there's proof of milage and any reputable company will give you some kind of guarantee even if it's only 30 days and if not it's probably a boat anchor and I would go with option 4 good luck 🤞
Option 3 and take a look inside all of the cylinders to look at the state of the valves, honing and other symptoms. Do you know why the engine is for sale? Could have been in a frontal crash. Your preferred option 4 sounds more of a money pit than you might realise. If I was a potential buyer for this car I'd be happy with option 3 or 3+, if you had to address issues with the 2nd hand engine. But what do I know 😊
Great video. Not a nice dilemma at all 🤔 Option 4 for me, as a safe bet, followed by option 2. Good luck with what ever you decide and am really looking forward to the rest of this series 👍👍
I would certainly go with option 4. It what makes you feel comfortable and the same goes for a future owner. The milage of the car vertical check was not so high which therefore applies to all the ancillary parts.
I would go for option 3. You could still buy all the gasket, seals and timing kits and do a full inspection on the bores. The issue surrounding your particular engine seems to be limited to the valve damaging the top of the bore, most likely as a direct result of the loose cam bolt and the timing skipping. For comparison, I believe the Range Rover Evoque of a certain year range has a similar issue with cam bolts coming loose and they aren’t usually found until the engine needs new timing chains and guides. The original ones are supposed to be pretty low quality. At least with a known running engine you could do the all of the work to replace gaskets, seals etc, with new parts and know that the engine will be good. Thread lock the cam bolts for peace of mind and you should be good. You would also save a good bit of cash too and that would translate to more money in the sale of the car at a later date.
Option 2. Rather have a steel bore than an alloy one. Whatever you do is going to cost big bucks, get the heads polished & ported whilst you're at it. That car will still make you money!
I think id be tempted by option 3, plenty checks like compression and a look down the bores then give it a refresh to make sure everything's sweet. New tensioners etc
Well you have to consider what kind of a car it is too and its a 99.99% chance it has been driven very hard so the entire drivetrain need a very thorough check by an expert and odds are money will fly....
Option 4 - crankcase rebuild for me Dean. I've tried a second hand engine twice in other cars and both times they failed quite quickly so think thats far too risky.
Option 2 or 4 would be the best content and also on resale at a later day, great content as always, you need a oil burner to heat your workshop- uses all your used oil
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You don't need 2 pistons, you need 4: the others hit the valves are probably trashed. If you rebuild, make sure to replace everything possibly damaged or you'll be left with a turd. if money wasn't a concern I'd go new engine. If tight on budget, I'd look into used engines and to why they're parked (maybe the car had an accident and the engine was untouched) and test the engine and ask for warranty of working or money back.
Option 4 for me - the best balance of cost vs outcome. Yes the used lump is cheaper, but it's just a used lump and without a detailed inspection you could be buying anything. I can't work out if you are brave or just mad taking this one on - but you'll get there 👍
3+ or 4. 3+ is a controlled running engine. 4 is compleetly rebuild, beware for the price of the Audi-parts.Ask John Ross from RU-vid WatchJRgo. He had also a R8 with a damaged engine and convertes to V10. Lots of succes!
remember that on alusil blocks audi allow one oversize bore and piston, bigger by: Bore dimension 1 84.510 ± 0.005 Bore dimension 2 84.610 ± 0.005 Nominal piston dimension 1 84.490 Nominal piston dimension 2 84.590 So depends of the damage, its always possible to bore the alusil block, hone with sunnen paste, instal oversize pistons and rings and youre good to go.
Mmm interesting, my gut feeling is rebuild existing engine rather than buying someone else’s faults? Also when buying one it’s matching numbers with its “own” engine in situ all rebuilt and perfect, however what’s it worth in A1 condition ? You have to make sure the numbers add up regardless of your time, ps I’d also go for option 2 ( your good😜😜 and know exactly what your doing bud) I await the next episode🤦♂️🤦♂️❤️🚗🚗
OPTION 5 - look at the LS3 and LS7 crate engines or even the R8 v10. I would love to see an R8 with a Porsche Turbo engine and transmission in it! Option 3: The 2nd hand engine is the quickest and cheapest option if you can see it running first! Option 3+ gives peace of mind. HOWEVER, are we sure that the transmission is okay if the engine seized like that? Good Luck!
"Which option would a buyer prefer" Really??? I thinks it's obvious if I was buying that car a new engine from Audi is whay I'd be happy with and probably most people. Why have anything less if you have a choice 😆. What would you like new engine or second hand 😆 🤣 😂 come on. Daft question
I think you've missed out cams and rockers and potentially a VVT pulley or two. They can't be cheap?! Or are you assuming they will come with the replaced head? I personally think for quick turnaround go for option 1. And you will have some Audi warranty to offer when you sell it. Other than that, option 4. Keep up the good work. Been following for a couple of years since the original Skoda VRS. 👍
It's a 2007 car so Option 3 if you can inspect it and can see the damage vehicle had (presumably its pulled from Cat A/B?) otherwise go for Option 4. More money but its new crankcase and full rebuild. Option 2 also sounds good, but it's more money, but less labour hours for you.
To me it depends if you're going to keep the R8 as a forever car. If that was the case, Id go option #2. Reasons: 1. That way it will be inherently a stronger engine with steel liners. 2. Will be able to be bored to oversize down the track.(wear or damage) 3. You could buy trick rods and pistons that are capable of high Hp. 4. Built engine allows for off the shelf aftermarket Twin Turbo kit. Defiantly a tricky decision. A brand new motor sounds tempting...But a steel sleeved and built bottom end is future proofed and stronger.
If I were buying it, option 1 would be best, LoL...then option 4. But, if I were (you) fixing it, option 4 would be my choice, from a cost and peace of mind perspective... If you chose option 3+, and it ended up costing as much or more than option 4...? It could also save you a ton of cash, if engine really good. You could sell what what was left or sit with it not selling for a while coz it has an exclusive market... Glad I don't have to make this decision... Tough one... LoL
Most comfortable to buy - 3+ (followed by3), because I know you'll make sure it's a good runner. Least comfortable - 2, the sleeves. Unless there was benefit to the sleeves, e.g. bigger bore, forged internals... giant turbo? :)
let me straighten your eufemisn: a score on the bore is a "DAMAGE" !!! yeah, it could be worse, but indeed a f.cked up bore is considered DAMAGED at quality places :)
Firstly well done once again doing major strip job. I would Go for 2nd hand and do as much testing as possible/ inspection before purchasing. Camera job down bores, compression test if possible or at least it must turn over. The above means you must go to check yourself with sellers agreement, if good buy and take it away. This way you see exactly what you are getting, if any any doubt whatsoever WALK AWAY and go for your option
To BUY the car, I would only want Option 1 but to use the car then option 3 after a very detailed research and inspection plus good guarantee from the supplier. Option 4is good but what if you keep finding more problems along the way? Best of all….set fire to it and claim on the insurance!😱😱😬😬😀😀😀
Option 4 sound good. Partially new which is good. The problem is that you don't if the rest of the engine had or didn't have any suffering and damage from the oil starvation. Because the whole engine had lack of oil.
RU-vidr Watch JRGO, he bought a used Jag engine. In that deal, he was able to return the engine if there was a problem (which there was) and get another one. If the used option comes with warrenty, then that would be good viewing for your channel. Failing that, swapping parts onto a new crankcase is equally interesting. Love the 'Save the R8' project!
OPTION 4 IS BEST. but a buyer would probably prefer option 1. but i think you could save that head for option 4. maybe pull the engine down further and check the crank.
If I were going to buy this after it's been fixed, I'd probably want Option 1, at least that way there's a guarantee on it, and I'd know as a buyer that nothing's been missed anywhere in the engine itself... If I was doing the work and keeping it for myself, well, that's a tough one.... I seriously think that the cost saving on 4 Vs 1 isn't going to be all that much in the end by the time you've got all the little odds and sods that it's going to need, especially if you think about the amount of time a rebuild will take vs just throwing in a new full engine... However, if you went with Option 2, the steel liners, new pistons and rods would be lining it up nicely for handing a twin turbo or supercharger (my preferred!) setup, which would CERTAINLY be a selling point.... :)
If I had the available funds to buy that car it was offered to me. I’d feel reassured knowing the parts repaired with from main stealer would warrant paying more for the car. New Heart New Life but £16000 on top. Have to find the right buyer could be along line tyre kickers. I feel your pain. We Believe In You!
Definitely DO NOT re-sleeve with steel liners. Ask M539 restorations what happens when you change materials in a high performance engine. Not good things, unfortunately.
On the question of - which repair option would I be most comfortable with if I were buying the car, then a brand new engine would be least risky...but also most expensive! As you are an ex-VAG technician, I assume you would have some feeling for what would 'do the job' to a satisfactory degree. Pretty much you are looking at spending more time on a riskier option or spending more money otherwise.
Well, you are so far into this there is no going back! Option 4 is a lot of work and possibly there is greater cost that your initial estimate. Option 3 or 3+ are probably good PROVIDED that you can get some history and the ability to inspect as other have suggested - check oil (even get it analysed for swarf), horoscope into cylinders and compression test. These check would significantly reduce risk and give a potentially better vale. Acid test for purchase? Option 3+ with documented work carried out.
Well another excellent channel dealing with my life's love, motor cars. Back in the 80's and early 90's I used to rebuild damaged repairable high end Japanese sports cars, approx 15 all told, but they were not anywhere near as complicated as the vehicles are now. However what I always did was examine the vehicle from all angles and aspects, and find out what damage was apparent then took loads of photos Bonus print made a fortune out of me. Then I would scrupulously clean the engine bay and damaged area with a power washer and or a steam cleaner. This in my mind made the whole dismantle and rebuild process so much easier. One thing to add though I only bought cars that were 4 years old or newer, it made removing rusted bolts etc so much easier. For your dilemma, I would go for opt 4 but build in a 20>25% cost increase in your estimate, so you would be looking at approx £10k plus, but have the assurance of knowing that most things are covered and at 40k miles its worth the risk and half the cost of a new engine. Unless of course you can find a unicorn with more or less the same mileage with structural damage. Good luck with the project, I am enjoying your production and have subscribed.
When I had a problem with a quality car with a snapped crank at 95000 miles I was quoted (oddly) £16000 for a repair. Got the local dealers and manufacturer involved arguing in the modern era this should not happen, there was clearly a design or manufacturing flaw that caused this and made the car not if merchantable quality Key was getting the MD of the Dealer Group in side and not really dealing with middle managers. Had bought a few cars from them as well over the years so wound up paying £4k. A failure like this should not happen and if this engine is prone to oil leaks, why have they not done a recall to fix it?
This is a conundrum. Easiest option to complete and sell... Option 1, but then you lose original engine matching numbers scenario. Option to buy secondhand on a performance car like this.. too risky I think... unless the engine is coming out of a very low mileage write off R8. But still risky. Option 4 sounds like the best option but with all these projects hidden problems and additional costs could mount up?? Then what cost do you finish with?? I think if I was buying the car a new engine would give me more confidence. Good luck with this project.. a good one for the channel.
Hi Dean I have just started watching your channel and really enjoy it. Going back over the older builds it can be difficult to get the correct order of the videos as the may just have a description I did miss a few of the RS4. I know some do have the PT1 PT2 etc. Going forward could you have a more structured title eg Make Model and video number and then video title. Thanks and keep up the good work.
