How Bran Will Be a Good King (Game of thrones - A Song of Ice and Fire Theory)

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In this part of our old ways discussion we talk a bit about the morals of the old ways in a song of ice and fire and what they mean for the story going forward.
We discuss how bran can be a good king and how he will solve the problem of the others that hangs over the north and all of Westeros.
#theoldways #gameofthrones #asongoficeandfire #asoiaf

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17 авг 2023

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Комментарии : 104

@Isewein 6 месяцев назад

9:48 You have actually managed to turn (the outline of) King Bran's arc as presented by the Season That Must Not Be Named into a compelling character conflict. Chapeau!

@deannagibbs971 11 месяцев назад

This series has had my jaw dropped multiple times now, it’s fantastic and you’ve explained it so well! Today I also watched a video theory on the blackwoods origins and that their ancestors spirits would go into the weirwood trees based on GRRM hints. Seeing this after that makes it all much more plausible!! Bravo on these!!

@augustleoberonis5369 5 месяцев назад

Brilliant. Jojen's comment that Bran was the only one that mattered didnt make sense in the show "The night's watch can't stop them, all the kings of westeros and their armies can't stop them....only you Bran" But this theory being true in some fashion or other would make this make sense

@thelocdesiringentryintoyou3686 2 месяца назад

Yeah it could kindve fit. Sucks that they decided to murk the white walkers and wights with the least built up, biggest ass pull ever of Arya stark ninja’ing them

@denali1566 11 месяцев назад

I think the line Bloodraven gives when Bran sees the heart of winter is ~"and now you know why you must survive." That always seemed like an interesting line, in light of your Others impaled on weirwoods theory maybe that's related to the dead dreamers Bran sees imapled on spikes during his fly or die dreams.

@russwilliams4464 11 месяцев назад

“Ice preserves” 👌 its almost like guest right. Humans need to invite the others south of the wall (by destroying it) and then both races will be at peace. This whole series is the best, more logical, consistent and well aligned theory with all the evidence we have and the way George writes as well as his views on the world. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

@michaeltalksaboutstuff 11 месяцев назад

I didn't even make the guest right connection! That is a mystery I have always wondered what the greater magical meaning was behind each little part of guest right. And there is so much about it at the nightfort in those stories as well. Very good catch and I will have to explore that idea thread more.

@russwilliams4464 11 месяцев назад

Because GR is not just that you will do no harm to your guest, but also that they will do no harm to you. Perhaps offering a single sacrifice (blood / “a meal”) is the equivalent of food and drink. It may be that the 79 sentinels were actually the others that accompany the weirwoods inside the wall. Another myth that has been contorted over time. Others are always described with tree and military language (sentinel). I definitely think that there is a deeper connection between the watch and the others. It’s hard to see them as anything but antagonists, but I wonder whether their origins are more shared that it appears (Nights King etc). Anyways, keep up the great work 🙌

@michaeltalksaboutstuff 11 месяцев назад

@@russwilliams4464 Yea after researching this a bit more after your first comment it is a great connection. Especially the point that both the guest and host are sworn to do no harm "for this night at least" Also Jon is not given guest right at Craster's and Gilly says "He never gave you guest right, you are not bound to him" So you can definitely bind the others to do no harm if you can get them under guest right imo. That has to be what it is set up for right? To allow for the protection of man if they let them in to negotiate. The guest right topic is getting its own video in the series and will be mentioned in multiple parts I am working on. Once again great catch!

@michaeltalksaboutstuff 11 месяцев назад

@@russwilliams4464 Also it will likely get covered in an episode out during this week but I might as well bring it up. I do also now think after considering it that Guest Right with the others is the point of Craster. Why does Bloodraven allow him to do the sacrifice to the others? Because he is testing if they will follow guest right and they do. Craster is always confident the others would never trouble him and tells people to get right with the gods. This is because they have guest right at his keep and therefore he is safe. Bloodraven was letting him do that as a test and when the others never troubled him it confirmed for Bloodraven that they follow guest right. Now Bloodraven knows that is a play in his playbook.

@LoLotov 11 месяцев назад

@@russwilliams4464great catch with night's king there, he's reviled, name stricken from memory, because he negotiated with the others, and possibly may be at fault for the adoption of the more heinous of the Old Ways. Your people would despise you if you agreed to end a war by forcing them to do... all of this... crazy sacrifice stuff. They used to be new ways, but it's been so long...

@theduxabides9274 7 месяцев назад

6:52 I don't buy for a second that Bloodraven has Bran or the realm's best interests at heart. If anything he's more likely to be in favour of the Old Ways, being a Blackwood by birth amd having used his skinchanger powers to outright rule the kingdom during the reign of Aerys I. He's all about maintaining the system; why do we think he ran a spy network in Westeros that killed off anyone that dared question Targaryen rule; why he ignored the Ironborn raids that were devastating the Westerlands and North so he could focus on the greatest threat TO THE CROWN in the Blackfyres; why he murdered the Blackfyre candidate at the Great Council despite promising him guest right and safe passage. If he'd had things his way at White Walls, Glendon Ball would have been killed, Daemon Blackfyre would have been crowned, and Brynden would have annihilated his enemies mercilessly; instead, Dunk and Egg stood up for Glendon and allowed him to expose Daemon for a fraud, humiliating his supporters and killing the 2nd Blackfyre Rebellion in it's cradle with next to no casualties. It's far more likely that Brynden is Bran's Kindly Man/Petyr Baelish figure, the Dark mentor he will have to abandon or overcome in order to become who he needs to be when the plot reaches it's climax. EDIT: "Uncle Baelor said that clemency was best when dealing with an honorable foe. If a defeated man believes he will be pardoned, he may lay down his sword and bend the knee. Elsewise he will fight on to the death, and slay more loyal men and innocents. But Lord Bloodraven said that when you pardon rebels, you only plant the seeds of the next rebellion.” ^ This does not sound like a man who would take pity on tree demons trying to wipe out humanity

@theduxabides9274 6 месяцев назад

So I watched Preston Jacob's "War of the Raven" series recently, and his suggestions make it that much more likely that Bloodraven will be an opponent of Bran, not an ally. If I had to guess, Bloodraven sees a war with the Others and a revival of the Old Ways as the best way to unify the realm around a common enemy and a common creed. If he's been warging Ghost and the Watch's ravens, then Craster's death and the battle at the Fist of the First Men are connected. Craster's death ended sacrifices to the Others, while the Battle at the Fist set the Wqtch against them. BR is orchestrating a war, and it's going to be Bran's job to stop it.

@sawyerk641 26 дней назад

I agree completely. I would also point out that, insofar as ice and fire is a carefully crafted system of mutually assured destruction, his entire bloodline looses its relevance if these systems go away. There has to be a threat from the others to justify the Targs; who would willingly put up with dragons otherwise? He was a loyal Targ through and through; sure, you could perhaps argue that he only did everything he did to set up the end game fight somehow. But like… idk man if he knew he needed to come to the wall and become a tree man, he could’ve done that without killing all the people he killed to help his family out. You could also maybe argue that he didn’t learn any of this until he connected to the tree and had a change of heart, but I don’t buy that either personally.

@bundibird3213 6 месяцев назад

"If you give the 13 year old girl three nuclear warheads who think that shes their mom" --- lmaooooo i love this phrase

@connorhinsley6991 5 месяцев назад

Ok, shot in the dark here, but what if Jon does not warg into ghost when he dies - like the audience is expecting - but instead wargs into the heart tree inside the wall. It might be interesting if for most of winds of winter, Jon is presumed dead, maybe inside ghost north of the wall. Then after several chapters from bran's perspective, the final chapter is a Jon chapter, revealing he is neither dead, nor in ghost, but he is inside of or IS the wall. Imagine Bran piecing this world history together, realizing the truth of the wall and the others, and attempting to reach into the wall with greensight, only to find his brother. Whether this is a catalyst for the events of the final book. Ex. Bran realizes like Jon letting the wildlings through, he needs to free the others to return to the weirwoods and/or whatever deep eldritch sea/dimension they come from. Or finding Jon could be the final piece in the puzzle, and is the key to "undoing" the song of ice and fire. Maybe the children influenced the prophecy by implanting dreams, and need to sacrifice Jon to the old god(s) to tie up the loose ends of their songs/spells used to create these magical beings/weapons in the others and the targs. Maybe Bran needs to find Jon (and potentially lose/sacrifice Jon) to not just tear the wall down, but in order to "open the gate" for the others. Imagine blood raven revealing to bran he orchestrated the whole thing (propechy, bloodlines, Jon, Jon's death where/when it needed to happen) all to get Jon inside the wall so Bran can use him as a final sacrifice (bloodraven I think might have a plan for "good" but is SO big picture that everyone is just a pawn in his plan) to not just bring down the wall, but to end the songs of ice and fire sung by the COTF. Bran might need one final sacrifice in his brother to restore balance or whatever the end goal is. It would avoid the cliche of Jon sacrificing himself and being the fairy tale hero, and would instead play into the commentary on power ALWAYS coming with a cost, no matter how noble the intention. Bran is born with all this power, and uses it to save the day... for free? Of course not. He lost his ability to walk, lost his friends and most of his family. Hell, he even lost himself by accepting the mantle of bloodraven. In learning the lesson that things need to change and move forward, Bran will surely be reminded at least one more time in the last two books that none of this comes without sacrifice. Progress does not happen because it is good. Progress happens because people fight and sacrifice for it. Could be spelling out a deeper message than "sacrifice is bad" - something more along the lines of "who makes a sacrifice and why" (could parallel some narratives like Ned "sacrificing his honor" to protect that of his sister and nephew). I think the story is going to go big with world building impacts and magic hitting a sort of fever pitch, but the stories will all converge on a human's choice of if/how to use power (probably bran grappling with the necessary cost of setting things straight - we ARE talking about upending a 5000-yo system, possibly older if the COTF have always drawn power from the same source as the wierwoods). It would not surprise me to find out the COTF are really just another people - or were just another people. To the andals and first men, they seem other-worldly/magical/superhuman, but as we've learned the COTF pay for power in other people's blood. Like any other person in the story, the COTF have goals, seek out and wield power, and are demonstrably willing to have others pay the price for the COTF's own power. Whether or not they are human, they are vulnerable to the same trappings of power as any first man or andal. tl;dr Could Jon warg into the heart tree of the wall instead of into ghost, like most are expecting, could this segway into the "truth" of the prophecy with Bran learning the true nature of the wall and potentially needing to sacrifice Jon to tear down the wall with him in it and undo the mayhem brought about by the COTF wielding magic beyond their understanding. Plays into themes of the costs of wielding power, the corrupting nature of power, how/why we use power. I am trying to make sense of the magic system and this series is helping pull some ideas together thematically. I think the details are going to be harder to nail down, but the more the themes "harmonize" the more it makes sense the story follows this general direction given the way the world is built.

@SavagesInMyTown 10 месяцев назад

i like the idea of ice representing conservativism and fire representing progressivism. i never thought of it like that, but it rules

@michaeltalksaboutstuff 10 месяцев назад

I also really like it and I think it is for sure what GRRM is going for on at least one level with his ice and fire and once you see it you can see how much he sort of took a lot of magic/sci-fi stuff and decided ok does this fit in ice or fire better, either literally or how he is using them thematically in the story of how they come together in a cycle of change.

@jonhauge-evaldsson783 4 месяца назад

Yes, it makes sense!

@whiteelephant3673 11 месяцев назад

The theories this channel has are honestly amazing, completely new to me, although I consider myself a well acquainted with asoiaf. Thank you Michael!

@Lawa_kun 9 месяцев назад

I've been watching ASOIAF content for years and this feels like when I discovered Preston Jacobs and his theories

@Yosya8059 4 месяца назад

@@Lawa_kunMe, too! This is so cool.

@joedavola9467 10 месяцев назад

Prince Daemon was prolly an awesome sacrifice on the Isle of Faces.

@Lawa_kun 9 месяцев назад

lmao they gobbled him up

@0bskureference 11 месяцев назад

This even perfectly fits the moniker Bran The Broken if that is Grrm intended name

@Quipek 8 месяцев назад

Additionally the fiery magic of Dragons surrounding the rise of Valyria and the Targaryen dynasty causes most of the large changes in Westerosi History. The rise of Valyria leads to both the Andal and Rhoynar migrations/ invasions as both came to Westeros fleeing the Valyrians. Both groups but mostly Andals would disrupt the Old Ways systems of the first men. Again the Targaryen conquest of Westeros itself would cause the fall of many ancient first men houses such as the Gardeners and the Durrandons which had each ruled for thousands of years. Also many of the larger cataclysms of Plantetos are related to Fire Magic including the Doom, Summerhall, and if you subscribe to moon meteors the Long Night itself were rooted in Fire magic. While not necessarily evidence these illustrate the theme of Fire magic being a root of progress and change which can contrast with the Ice magic cause these long periods of stagnation in Westeros.

@jackwalker4957 16 дней назад

When I first saw S8 the choice of Bran being made king felt like a gut-punch. It felt played off as a "haha, gotcha! bet you didn't see that coming!" moment in the show, but it also felt like there was the potential for it to have actually meant something in George's original story. Despite it's emptiness in the show it still felt too... promising as a concept for it to have come from D&D alone. This video in combination with your video on "The Night King Did Nothing" wrong are such an awesome answer to all the thematic questions George has created in his work. It also explains to me why GoT really spoke to my heart as a young teenager raised in a household practicing literal 1950's patriarchal values in the 2010's. I wasn't watching to go "hell yeah, nothing matters..." I was watching in hopeful anticipation for the cathartic release of having literature that validated my desire to escape the confines of what I was told the world Had to Be and Always Was.

@theduxabides9274 7 месяцев назад

5:51 Bran: "I'm movin different, this shit ain't nothing to me man; i'm on them Bear Island Tic Tacs"

@groglas 5 месяцев назад

man's on that three-eyed-crow-flow

@theduxabides9274 5 месяцев назад

@@groglas "My money longer than Aegon Targaryen"

@eric2500 10 месяцев назад

I really think there are no present day politics or culture in this fantasy world and that that is part of the point. It takes a different setting to make us think about how war destroys societies or how power corrupts or how lack of love wrecks a person's ability to become a moral actor. WE are supposed to come in with modern values and be horrified at the exploitation of children, the brutality of war up close and personal, etc.

@MrNoble1997 9 месяцев назад

One of the clues I have a hard time reconciling with your theories, though I do really appreciate all the hard work you've put in making them, is how significant the God's Eye seems to be to the story. In addition to being connected to the weirwoods and greenseers with the grove there and the green men, its also gotten some seriously sybmolic significance through the events of fire and blood. If the others want to come south for any reason, I think it'll have to be to get there. Do you have any additional thoughts on the gods eye in conjuction with your wall of others theory?

@michaeltalksaboutstuff 9 месяцев назад

I do have a place I think the gods eye fits in nicely in how the end game will play out. It will get its own video one day. Without full spoilers for the theory, it will be useful to have an order who remembers what happened a long time ago when the pact was made and who remembers the old green magic. That pact began an age of the world which has lasted for thousands of years and is ending. So a new age will begin and the green men and green magic will become useful in the birth of a new age by the end of the story. I think the gods eye is a place where those important things/secrets were stored for if/when the age of this pact ended and the world needed another process of rebirth into a new age. That is why it is warded and guarded. It's purpose is to remain untouched and unknown until their magic is needed.

@AnarchoCatBoyEthan 10 месяцев назад

another fantastic video! you really seem uniquely plugged in to the mind and symbolism of the series, it’s very impressive

@michaeltalksaboutstuff 10 месяцев назад

Thanks! I feel the wall and what was going on with that and the old ways was really a key missing thematic piece to all of the story and the end game in so many ways. So I feel like finally getting that just made so much click in to place. I have a whole video coming soon about the wall making the others and how well that works on so many levels. GRRM is nailing his symbolism here with building walls and otherization going hand in hand

@Sprite8822 5 месяцев назад

While I like this series, I would have to ask...how does that fit with Bloodraven planning to bring down the wall whilst being surrounded by the Children of the Forest? Surely they would not want this as it would mean an end of their old ways and their species.

@michaeltalksaboutstuff 5 месяцев назад

I think there might be either a situation where the children either realize their blood magic was bad for them in the long run too, or just that the rebirth cycle is inevitable and the right thing to do. It might end up if some of them could survive the long night then it would be for the best for everyone. Or bloodraven is tricking the children as he does this and sets things in motion.

@thebovineavenger 6 месяцев назад

You are doing a great job on all your videos. Keep it up.

@dee8263 6 месяцев назад

Dude these are great videos. Well done.

7 месяцев назад

I love this theory and I myself have come to a similar conclusion as well, that the Children (those following the Raven/ Warg king) betrayed the Others and stole they trees, locked them up in the North, and made the humans believe that the Wall is there for their own good. The Three eyed raven is the main villain imo

@phnompenhandy 8 месяцев назад

I'm absolutely gobsmacked by your theories - love 'em to bits. But you leave me confused - how do The Children not know Bloodraven is their existential enemy?

@michaeltalksaboutstuff 8 месяцев назад

So I think the eventual destruction of the weirwoods might be what they all want now as this corrupt ancient world tree organism is at the end of its life cycle. I am still trying to piece together if they are going for a freedom from the weirwoods entirely or a rebirth of a new weirwood world tree that is uncorrupted by war and blood magic. I think bloodraven and the children are working toward a restoration of a more green magic and a way of life before the trees were corrupted by the cycle of war.

@SonoftheMustardTiger Месяц назад

I am loving these videos. Very impressive ❤

@eric2500 10 месяцев назад

The flaw is that the Children know and say that they are dying out and that it is their fate. So they are not trying to continue or stop the blood sacrifice.

@phantom_user1 10 месяцев назад

2 videos in and i already like this channel a lot

@eric2500 10 месяцев назад

Wait, Craster's wives say think that the Others are at least in part " the sons" meaning their sons. They come with the cold. That is in the books when they tell Sam and Gilly to RUN!

@michaeltalksaboutstuff 10 месяцев назад

Yeah I do wonder if there are different types of others and what they do with Craster's sons to make the wives say that. Another commenter mentioned GRRM pitching the series mentioned something called the neverborn as seperate from the other types of undead in the army of the undead and perhaps taking these babies they can pluck a consiousness from their hive mind to take the babies body and thus are the "neverborn" which I think is cool. But certainly there is more to look into about how exactly the others are made and what is done with those sons to make them others.

@sdzielinski 5 месяцев назад

It's difficult to consider Bran an evil king when the last book in the series will have the title 'A Dream of Spring.' It would help Bran if the Children of the Forest had left behind a road map or instruction manual!

@eric2500 10 месяцев назад

Ice preserves/ freezes and Fire consumes/ changes. Both destroy. I think the coming clash and or merger will wipe them both out or at least equal them out. Bran, as a Green Power ( Earth) will rule, using the accumulated history of all the Greenseers. He's not going to learn a lesson as Bran - because he is not very much Bran in the future. He is Leto from Dune. He is going to rule for 10 K years. Duneishly.

@sblinder1978 8 месяцев назад

So in this theory, do the Children want to see the wall maintained? Or do they want it brought down? If they seek its destruction, why don't we see them advocating for this? If they want it preserved, what do they get out of that? Also, if the Others want the Wall destroyed, why did they go? If you crucify my people, I'm probably not going to sit on my hands for ten thousand years. I get that a tree-based collective intelligence sees time differently than I do but it does seem excessive.

@michaeltalksaboutstuff 8 месяцев назад

I am starting to drift from my thinking in this theory a bit the more I research. I keep finding more evidence to see the others as shadows cast by the people mind-melded to the trees. So I think those people may want death where as the trees want to keep living but also need to be maintained. The others scare people into the worship of the trees to keep the people sacrificing the blood to keep the bodies and therefore the trees alive. It is all a big scheme for the trees who want to control things and stay alive. As for what is going on now it seems the trees are either at the end of a life cycle or the bodies that want to die are getting the upper hand. Bloodraven may be wanting to die so that he doesn't end up like the still living forever stuck to the trees people Bran sees deep in his cave. So basically they work for the trees and the trees have a split personality conflicted over its own death. The human heart in conflict with itself on a God/worldtree level which could be dealt with by Bran when he is wed to the trees fully.

@erinreese1007 2 месяца назад

This is perfect to when it comes to GRRM views. Not an expert on him but i think he is the kind of guy to be very against a wall dividing people.

@louiscassis3426 3 месяца назад

Maybe the Others just want to rest. As long as the magic remains. As long as the old ways remain. As long as the lords keep their power. The Others can’t rest.

@richardjessiejohnson9108 9 месяцев назад

bro, how did random dude on YTjust solve/bust open ASOIAF ?

@michaeltalksaboutstuff 9 месяцев назад

I spent wayyy too much thinking about these books over the last decade hahaha

@chicksandwich 16 дней назад

Is abolishing income tax more stark or targ?

@saminator3563 8 месяцев назад

I reckon just trees in the wall. No leaves because no sun, so branches are just pipes then

@sebastiankala1093 6 месяцев назад

I just dont get one thing. If others are just trying to get back into the trees and rescue their brothers from the wall, then why would the wall be built in the first place? To protect people from what, if others are the product of the wall?

@groglas 5 месяцев назад

First Men invade Westeros, clears land for farming, chops down Weirwoods, displaces / kills the Children of the Forest/Those Who Sing the Song of Earth/Singers, The Singers create The Others to fight The First Men, possibly by pulling ancestral spirits out of the Weirwoods and depositing them in captured Men, but The Others are too powerful possibly because they can control so many Wights/dead men, so The Singers lose control over them, The Others are now defeating both The First Men and The Singers, so The Pact is sealed between The First Men and The Singers, the Realm is split up and the system of Human Sacrifices is established aka The Old Ways/the Old God's aka Greenseers, bastards and unwanted children are given to Nature aka The Singers, criminals are executed in front of Heart Trees/Weirwoods etc, this boosts The Singers' power and together with The First Men they gradually push The Others into the Far North/Land of Always Winter, then together they plant/erect/build the Wall (Captured Others maybe used and built into the Wall), and as long as the Old God's aka Greenseer Children of the Forest are supplied human sacrifices the powers are somewhat balanced, The Others lack the strength to defeat both Humanity and The Singers, The Singers are sustained by the system of sacrifice, they get both blood and new Greenseers from the Westerosi, and Humanity thrives safe from the threat of The Others by paying the blood tax. But as time goes by The Others are getting their hands on some of the Sacrifices and growing in strength, The Singers are in a slow decline because they can't multiply as quickly as needed and their stream of sacrifices is dwindling, and they are losing the parts of the Realm that was supposed to be theirs, perhaps because The First Men in turn lose most of Westeros to The Andals, and The Rhoynar, who don't worship The Old God's but The Seven, and The Old Ways start to be lost and or outlawed, soon The Singers will no longer be able to hold The Others back or keep them out of the Weirwoods, so The Long Night 2.0 is upon us, but not because the Others are evil, they just want to go home, it's The Singers keeping them out, and humanity is just in their way. At least that's my interpretation of this theory, I'm assuming The Others can't go back into the Weirwoods by dying, but that they have to destroy some kind of gatekeeper, possibly the Wall, or Isle of Faces.

@jgr7487 4 месяца назад

To counter the comment read at 0:28 I only remind you of the crazy twisted stuff GRRM wrote, see Preston Jacobs review of Martin's 1000 Worlds stories.

@alexnunn2161 10 месяцев назад

Personally I find it hard to believe that the others just want to get back into the trees, if that was the case why are they on sight with literally fucking everything and everyone(the nights king marrying an other bot withstanding). The theory I personally believe is that the war ends in a truce where jon snow has to become a new nights king type figure by marrying an other and going beyond the wall to lead the wildlings

@sachink6781 Месяц назад

If the wall is nothing but the weer wood trees covered with ice.... Then all those tress branches should be coming out of the sides of the wall......and the top as well.

@JR47846 3 месяца назад

if they make bran a king in the books too i will use every book from this universe to light the fire next winter i would rather seeing them all dying that having that as a end

@What-go8ng 8 месяцев назад

lol bro i sincerely hope GoT doesn't boil down to Orange Man Bad lunacy - fuck, first video of yours that just hoping to God doesn't come true

@AlbinoMutant 8 месяцев назад

What’s progressive about a return to a system even older than the Old Ways?

@michaeltalksaboutstuff 8 месяцев назад

Green magic seems to be a magic of new growth and creation from which they could in theory begin anew and build society differently. At least that seems to be what is going on. So it would depend on how it is handled but a return to green magic would maybe be a time of new growth and new ways being created by the people growing the new world.

@bostonmetalclips 18 дней назад

How I view all religions.

@yokothespacewhale 9 месяцев назад

Bro made a whole channel out of a single theory of the wall

@Matatabi6 7 месяцев назад

God emperor bran atreides ii

@umwha 10 месяцев назад

I’m not getting this idea that the others ‘naturally’ come from the trees.

@michaeltalksaboutstuff 10 месяцев назад

I am basing this off quotes like "when the greenseers turned the trees into warriors" as well as the visual of how the others were made in the show and the fact that GRRM introduces to them with "a shadow emerged from the dark of the wood". I think the weirwoods have essentially a spirit/life force/consciousness whatever you want to call it inside them that was used in some magic way to make the others by pulling that spirit from the wood with blood magic or shadow magic.

@umwha 10 месяцев назад

@@michaeltalksaboutstuff I subscribe to the theory that the Other do come from the trees, but its not natural. This is David Lightbringers theory. CotF naturally enter the trees. Humans envied this and forced entry into the weirnet. This bifurcated the weirnet into the green half, containing the spirits of the CotF, and the frozen half, which has the spirits of human greenseers who entered without permission. The Others want to get out of the dead half, into the green half to achieve eternal life in a positive condition, or obtain real bodies to live again.

@geoninja3631 5 месяцев назад

🤍❤🤍❤🤍❤

@chasx7062 9 месяцев назад

LOL... All Weirwood Trees are being cut down, so what trees are we talking about? Thats "progress" for you... (Taking down the Wall so the others can join the "trees"? The Others cannot pass thru the Wall) The problem is not Bran per se, but his successors!! the method of governance

@jamesnave1249 2 месяца назад

I feel like you might be getting to caught up in the message and loosing the narrative.

@umwha 10 месяцев назад

This is great but you make one massive error. You are presuming that Conservative = bad and progressive = good. You are looking for ways that the progressive Fire force will create a better future from the 'entrenched conservative' ice force. But , if conservative and progressive are ICE and FIRE then they both must be in balance, not one overtaking the other. Martin is actually saying that ICE and FIRE need to merge, marry, combine - creating a song of both. Neither is wrong - only unbalance is wrong. Martin is an enlightened centrist - not the woke leftist people think he is. Heres an example from your own theories: The Others have to be bound by Guest Right. 'guest right' is a quintessentially conservative idea. It is an ancient rule, a social norm, that has been conserved for millenia. It is a concept that is sacred. That social norm helps preserve order and order is good. Its a little bit arbitrary - like having to eat bread and salt - its attached to superstition, sure - but ultimately it is a useful rule. Maybe the way forward, is not to oppose conservatism, not to oppose the 'old ways' but rather to preserve those 'old ways' which are functional (positive ice) and renew only those that are negative (positive fire). Maybe the way forward is to extend the respect of our ancient culture out to Others - to bring human and Other both under the rule of shared cultural norms. Only by maintain a shared culture (with shared values, norms, customs) can two races become one people, or can even interact on peaceful terms.

@eric2500 10 месяцев назад

The Others would be bound by Guest Right simply because they are like the Sidhe of our world. The social norm among humans with reinforcing customs is a social construct only, which is why they can break it and nothing happens except social breakdown and distrust, but if Fae people like the Others o the Children do it they will die instantly.

@umwha 10 месяцев назад

@@asimhussain8716 Yes, people have a very simplistic view of politics, and they tend to assume that asoiaf is 100% left wing in every way (even Preston Jacobs recently described Martin as 'woke' - this was praise). People seem not to understand that Martin was a hippie of the 70s. Hippies rejected modernity (progress) in favour of returning to the ancient ways and preserving those culutres. By anyones definition that is conservative.

@balderbrok6438 9 месяцев назад

This is as i see it almost completely accurate, and something most of those who analyse ASOIAF at least don't think about too conciously. However, an actual mingling of opposites, ideologically speaking - a song of fire and ice turned political - would not entail "enlightened centrism" which would be tauntamount too lukewarmness, but rather something transcending left and right. Say, for example, a marriage of the postmodern philosophy which woke leftism is based upon with the traditionalist philosophy of Rene Guenon. It would be radically "conservative" and "progressive" at the same time, and not at all belong between two extremes. This is probably not what George is conciously going for in any way, but I am of the opinion that masterworks of any kind (and ASOIAF at least borders on being this) transcend their authors, or allows the authors to communicate something which they had not conciously thought off themselves.

@umwha 9 месяцев назад

I'd say that Ice and Fire balancing eachother could be said to create 'Peace' and 'Balance'. I think Martin is thinking politico-philosophically. I mean, he was an objector to Viet Nam war, and he was a hippie. Yet, he isnt actually 'anti-war' at all , as he said that there are some wars worth fighting, such as against the Nazis. So he pulled away from right wing values, and also far left ideas. He desribes himself as a lapsed catholic, not an atheist, again pulling away from a conservative certainty, but neither fully rejecting. His chosen symbol of the turtle, encapsulates this. A turtle is progressive, very slowly and cautiously, well protected, safe. So, I'd say we're heading toward 'Balance' and 'Peace' rather than a supercharged double politico-philosophical polarity

@dee8263 6 месяцев назад

This is a fair point. Bloodraven’s bloodline speaks to this. Being half dragon, half Blackwood, he’s a balance of ice and fire himself.

@Saktoth 4 месяца назад

The thing is, GRRM is a progressive. But he is also a pessimist. His stories always end with everything being terrible and everyone dying. This isn't going to be a hopeful ending. The final status quo will probably be something horrible and dystopian.

@almasarajlic2306 8 месяцев назад

So in essence Christianity good, Paganism, and any other religion, bad. Interesting concept.

@Isewein 6 месяцев назад

I mean, Progressivism has always been standing on the shoulders of Christianity. ASOIAF as a Girardian parable? Count me in.

@andrewschneider2121 9 месяцев назад

You’d be pretty good at Yoga with all this stretching.

@DT-pm8yu 6 месяцев назад

“Wow we were the bad guys the whole time and the bad guys are just misunderstood” would be the most cliche trite awful ending to this series than anything I could possibly imagine. It might have been cutting edge in 1994 but in todays day and age it’s so outdated and overused. The postmodern progressive take on mythos in modern storytelling needs to die.

@fenzelian 4 месяца назад

There’s nothing postmodern about the idea that society was better in the distant past and needs to be renewed back to its natural purity because people today are corrupt - its leftist, but it’s still just Hegel or Marx at the latest - so, modernist, just hostile to other modernists. Tyrion, Varys and Littlefinger are the postmodern characters. Jon, Dany and Bran are all modernists, even Romantics. I agree this ending would be very lame and that “we’re the bad guys” is getting tedious. I just think it’s an older shtick than postmodernism.

@HallyVee 4 месяца назад

That's much more fascist than Marxist. Idealized distant past is a conservative dream.

@sawyerk641 26 дней назад

Admittedly the book series was started in the 90s so… if that is the case, as you say 😂 But I don’t think it is, at least not in full. Like I do find it realistic that we may need to make peace with the others somehow in order to get nature back to normal. I highly doubt it’s gonna be as simple as “yo just take down this wall and we all good bro.” It’s probably a big part of the eventual solution, and therefore not as scary or bad a prospect as the characters think (big huge walls that separate people where you demonize everyone who’s from the opposite side, is probably a bad thing) but the immediate aftermath of that is still going to be detestation and horror. I think I tend to opt more for the “the others actually want to die” theory myself. Not saying they’re gonna make it easy, or even that they know they want that, but being magically immortal ice people who were /probably/ maybe created with some kind of torturous sacrifice in the first place cannot be a fun way to exist. I feel like the only thing we can say for sure is 1) it’s gonna be an awful time to be alive, and 2) when it’s over people are going to have to not take revenge. All of this stuff with the magic when you get down to it is someone wrongs someone horribly and someone else can’t let it go, so instead they make it a problem for all of their descendants by instilling this cosmic hatred that’s characterized by fire and ice, life and death, etc. There will be no room for brother hurting brother in the new world, and we’re all brothers, so whatever hatred and fear we have for the “others” will have to die one way or another.

@chasx7062 9 месяцев назад

Total misogyny!!! Why cannot Queen Dany end the Ole Ways, and not the crippled boy without any lived experiences?

@michaeltalksaboutstuff 9 месяцев назад

I think Dany will be more responsible for ending the old ways than almost anyone. I would say as for why she doesn't end up as Queen it is part of GRRM having it be a more bitter sweet story and perhaps a bit of a comment on his real life experience. Revolutionaries who make the world better often don't get to rule the better world they often get taken out but their sacrifice inspires a better world. I think Dany's end in the books will be one where her actions will have lead to the birth of a new ways as much or more than anyone else. She will pretty much be the mother of the new age of the world but sadly tragically she will not be able to be Queen.

@chasx7062 9 месяцев назад

@@michaeltalksaboutstuff Is GRRM gonna say the Ole Ways of the Original Inhabitants of the Land as inferior? He would be crucified to dare to contemplate telling American Indians or Australian First Nations' cultures that theirs are inferior LOL And I doubt that would be his mentality, to glorify modern "progressive" ways... Clearly, GRRM does not know how to end the story, but it has to be another Pact, and another sacrifice: Dany. After all, the Song of Ice & Fire is a wedding song.

@Isewein 6 месяцев назад

But that's the beauty of this proposed political allegory. It's centrist above anything else. Balance between Ice and Fire, the old and the new. Pure Fire is destructive and ends up burning the good with the bad. Think of Hawthorne's Bonfire of the Vanities. But after millennia of Ice it can also be necessary before something new could be born. Yet the radical who brings down the old is not best suited to rule the new, because she is not suited to compromise, to accept the necessity of some Ice. Jon, who symbolically is both Fire and Ice, will have to kill her, fulfilling the prophecy of Azor Ahai. I'm really glad I found this theory, because it is the only one which brings the seemingly accidental two side's of Dany's character - the social reformer and the mother of dragons - together through the narrative metaphor of Fire. And really, that goes for all of the magic and politics. Ever since first reading ASOIAF I thought of them as somewhat disjointed elements; two equally compelling stories which I could never quite imagine could be woven together satisfactorily. The catastrophe of the show's ending seemed to confirm this - after all, GRRM confirmed that its broad strokes were an accurate reflection of his plan for the books. On the face of it, that seemed to set us up for disappointment. Mad Dany, murdered by Jon? Bran King? This theory, however, has given me new hope that GRRM actually does have a plan for how these same broad strokes which appeared ridiculous in the show could form a narratively satisfying conclusion to the Song.

@mikemuscarello1609 4 месяца назад

Lol no. Makes no sense. At first it did now Def doesn't. And u keep asking if that makes sense and saying right? Lol redflags. You do not believe in what you're asking us. Brans a robot. I'll be shocked if GRRM decides bran is going to be king

@sawyerk641 26 дней назад

I love the idea of a tree line for the wall, but I had similar thoughts about Bran. He’s breaking so many taboos… I kind of doubt that he’s going to make a turn and suddenly be super altruistic like this when instead everything so far seems to focus on him grabbing this power to compensate for his disability, in his mind. Which still makes thematic sense to me; Bran would very much be the “monster” created by this societies rules if he keeps getting darker. I can still imagine “good” endings for him, so I don’t think it has to be grim dark where he powers the new long night or w/e, but if I had to put my money on anything it would be him and either Jon or Rickon being at opposing ends of the fight, somehow. There’s so many brother-slaying-brother motifs in the series, I find it difficult to believe that the remaining Stark boys wouldn’t also mirror that in some way. So yeah, if Bran does do the “right” thing I at least don’t think it’s gonna be as easy as him just being naturally inclined. Especially because I feel like GRRM has also said numerous times how he finds the “and then there was a good king who fixed everything and there was nothing bad again” to be tiring and unrealistic. Like, maybe at this point when a king isn’t good you just need to hold a metaphorical gun to his head and force him to be, you know? Power to the small folk lol.