Our friend Valantis Athanasiou provided invaluable research for this episode. A salute to him and all the historians of Greece ploughing through the complex, sometimes overlooked, but hugely important history of the country during this period. To our Timeghost Army: What do you want to see covered as the Second World War blurs into the Cold War?
Why Britain never had a serious threat from the communists as some other countries did. Instead Britain voted Labour a Socialist party but also one in favour of the liberal Democratic parliamentary system. The Communists have never been able to gain a hold in Britain, yet Marx thought Britain one of the most likely states to develop communism
He was covered to a slight degree along with the SS officer he had to deal with in a couple of past videos, but maybe (if possible) something in the near future to mark the 30th anniversary of Schindler's List. The movie turns 30 at the end of this week. Maybe like a movie review or something like that (similar to what y'all did for Saving Private Ryan). I watched it a few nights ago for the first time in yrs. I'm curious to know how many of the Schindler Jews are still alive.
Wow! What extraordinary work! You've got it so right. I am a 70 year old Greek American (born in Greece and American by choice) and the shadow of these events, so well presented here, have been a constant presence in my life. My father, Panagiotis, was an EAM/ELAS member and fighter. After the war, he was tried on some bogus charges because of his affiliation, convicted by a kangaroo court and sent to an island prison. After serving his time in exile, he returned to the mainland and to a life that had become unlivable. He became a marked man. Opportunities to live a basic, dignified, life were closed off to him. Consequently, in 1959, we emigrated to America. However, my father, most assuredly, was no Communist. Indeed, although this may be hard to believe or accept, most of the EAM/ELAS fighters only took up arms to liberate their land. The poison of ideology came later and was ill understood by most who spewed ideological rhetoric like parrots without comprehending the true meaning. The Second World War was particularly savage in Greece where the Greeks not only fought the Germans, Italians and Bulgarians - but each other with a ferocity that beggars description. As a passionate lover of history myself, I can not help but note that throughout Greek history (even going back to antiquity) we Greeks have butchered each other with wild abandon even during times when the enemy was not merely at the doorstep but within our own homes. As a mere example, during the War of Independence against the Ottoman Empire (1821 through 1829), the Greeks fought each other in two distinct Civil Wars. Notably, the scars and divisions that the last Greek Civil War fostered still echo in Greek daily life to this day. I can only hope that the new generations of Greeks learn the lessons from the past and stand united and free now and in the future. Zito Ellas!
The price we paid to free our country from the communist monster, was immense. But had we lost, the country would be a hell hole in the edge of the Balkan Peninsula. In Yalta agreement, Churchill and Stalin had a deal of a maximum communist influence of up to 10% in Greece. The leadership of the communists sacrificed everything to change this, and damaged the country for the decades to come. My father had a close escape from them in their attempt to collect babies in order to send them in USSR. My family suffered property loss and members killed in the Epirus region. In antiquity, as Polybios says, the civil war caused the collapse of population. It was Rome that saved us from extinction. The worst civil " war" ( εθνικός διχασμός) right after ww1 caused us to lose Asia Minor. Nowadays...The Greeks are divided between wokeism and traditional ( with the first controlling the media and the educational institutions) My greetings from Athens. Να είστε καλά
For 30 some years, I knew two old Greek brothers who were teenagers during WWII. Their family suffered terribly and begged them not to get involved with the resistance, justifiably fearing Nazi reprisals...which advice they mostly ignored. And after the Blond Beast finally left, these brothers only became further involved in the horrific Greek civil war(s). In an unguarded moment, maybe around 1986, they told me a terrible, terrible story. In one of the missions they were on, after the war was over, they encountered two of their cousins fighting on the other "side" who had been captured by their "side." They escorted them out of certain death, said good-bye to their family and left, eventually made their way to America, where I met them. They never went back. In their 80s, they still shook with rage and sorrow. Politics has consequences.
@@murrayscott9546 "Surely"? Upon what do you base this certainty, mate? The scribblings in the various "holy" books, history, or your own lived experiences? I have actually met very decent, kind souls in the midst of quite depraved conditions, but all that tells me is that there are still "good eggs" out there, despite everything. And even if your fairy tale of choice turns out to be true, is there really any justification for the absolute mountains of suffering human history has always entailed? Were the cruel deaths of Anne Frank and every degraded slave ever somehow either "worth it" or, even worse, inconsequential because some fookin' smiling Easter Bunny or sadistic godling had a plan after all? And how does that conversation between poor Anne and Rudolf Hoess go when they're both resurrected, redeemed and shipping champagne in the afterlife? I'm as fond of opium as anyone, but this fantasy is just indigestible and disgusting.
Incredible episode. Having commented negatively on previous episodes regarding Greece, I admit I was anxious about the presentation of Greek Civil war events. But it was a truly unpolarized and objective view that even Greek historiographers struggle to achieve in their analysis. Greek historiography is full of hatred and political ideologies keep us from see the errors of each side. Great job!
Agreed, it's one of the most objective views of the civil war I have seen in a half an hour video. Coming from a family where the two sides fought on opposing factions and both regretted doing so, it is very important to understand and teach the people about the reasons, the events and the atrocities of both the left and the right.
When I was young, I had two visions of Greece -- a vague notion of Ancient Greece (including many of the myths) and then the fall of the military dictatorship in the mid-1970s. This series has done a marvelous (if often sad) job of filling in more of the history of Greece.
Greek history, especially our modern history is full of this crap. We always fight against each other when we are on the verge of greatness. We had a civil war during the goddamned war of independence for who would end up being the leader after Greece would be free and suffered severely for it, with famous heroes being imprisoned and even killed by our own. Now getting liberated from the Germans after those long and extremely difficult years isnt something you would really call ''greatness'' but we just had to fight again... We are united against others but rarely have stability and can get along with ourselves....
“Never think that war, no matter how necessary nor how justified, is not a crime. Ask the infantry and ask the dead.” ― Ernest Hemingway, For Whom the Bell Tolls
I believe the British finally bailed out of trying to maintain order in Greece in 1947, when they wrote to the Americans that their purse was now empty and American government money would have to take over. Quite the miserable affair for all the Greek people, regardless of political affiliation. 😥
Thanks so much for your presentation Spartacus. My father fought in the Greek civil war on the government side, and my mother’s family fought with ELAS. This war was never talked about amongst relatives or Greek-Australians in general. It’s only now through documentaries that I am starting to understand how the civil war came about, the impact it had on the population and shocking brutality of the fighting.
Very accurate description of events! Congrats for the details. The fact is that Greece entered the war in October 1940 and was in battle until 1949! After a decade in conflict, the country was in ruins in all levels. It took more than a decade to get back on its feet. The "miracle" of recovery was achieved by the mid 60's. We were the first who were victorious on the ground against Axis and again had the first battlefield in the Cold War that followed. Never forget.
My grandfather was a member of EAM/ELAS in chania (we were fighting skirmishes after the rest of greece was free from the germans ) and latter on a KKE (greek communist party) member. As a "reward" for his resistance (he didn't take part in the civil war as it was limited in crete due to many factors) he was sent to the concentration camp at makronisos, were he and other politically suspect army concsripts were held and tortured in order to denounce communism. He didn't but was eventually released when it shut down after the end of the civil war. Afterwards he was politically repressed, harassed by the police and gendarme and allowed only the most dangerous jobs. His family suffered too, my father was bullied at school for being the child of an "EAMobulgarian" (insult for communists, accusing them if being bulgarian agents). Eventually, one day as they were working in the fields he gathered the courage to ask his father what communists are. Grandpa just paused his work, sighed and said communists are just people same as anyone else... I was kind of worried about how you'd cover these events, but this is a mostly fair assessment, Σας ευχαριστώ πολύ για αυτό,να'στε καλα. Edit: The one major disagreement i have is with aspects of the speech at the end. Some things ARE worth dying for, and i know my own grandfather shared the sentiment as did many others who gave their lives for our freedom
I agree! Also from an EAM family. No matter what, this war (wwii) has truly shown that some things are worth fighting for, no matter the risk of death. So many heroes that fought the axis all over the globe prove it.
Communists are just people same as anyone else?? When Nazis attacked Greece the ribbentrop pact was still in effect, nazis helped commies get out of prison, EAM was not communist, communist inflitrated that organization as "patriots" which they never were, they wanted Bulgaria and Yugoslavia to take over Northern Greece, communists like the holy cows that they are in modern Greece can say whatever lie they want and do whatever they want without reprisals, watch the movie ELENI 1985, its a pretty good representation of f!lthy commies
greekcommie in Australia? lol .. that's rich. If EAM/ELAS had prevailed, you would have been dirt poor like the rest of the Balkans under communism, and your family would have been unable to migrate to Australia. You would literally be stuck behind the iron curtain. So, cut the bs, and be grateful the commies didn't prevail.
The only just war is the war to protect your family and your home. Let us never forget what the nazis and their collaborators did during the occupation; stealing, burning down houses, raping, torturing, murdering. If driving those monsters out of your country isn't a sacred cause, i don't know what is... Τιμη και δοξα σε ολους οσοι αντισταθηκαν, τιμη και δοξα στο ΕΑΜ.
I only know about this civil war in passing. Thank you for your video Spartacus and everyone sharing their stories of themselves or family members that lived through this time
Thank you once again for your work!!! I read history for 40 years but although everybody i know thinks that i am a history master who remembers and know so many history, events, dates and battles, i realised that i only recently learned how to read history after all. History is more than all that we learned at school!!! You helped me so much with your openminded way of sharing history! I wish there were more like you as teachers for us and our children! You have my respect!!!
I´m currently reading Churchill´s WW2 memoires and, coincidentally, the chapter I read yesterday was exactly about this civil war tension on Greece, so this video was on point. Great job guys!
Thank you very much guys and Valantis (he knows the first rule of the fight club ;) for the episode. Unfortunately these events will divide the country even today (sentiments are very still alive) and will lead to further disasters during the Cold War.
Thank you for doing these episodes, Time Ghost Team. I have a hard time remembering what barebones lessons were in my history classes, but even in my college courses, this turbulent and Dark period of Greece was only barely touched upon, and only then in the terms and context of the spheres of influence between the Western Powers and the Soviet Union. It's fascinating, yet horrific to dig a little deeper, to show the ideology war from the ground level, rather than ruin mere numbers and percentages of influence.
Excellent work as usual. It's interesting to see also the confusion and the division between EAM leadership (including ELAS High Comitee) on one side and ELAS military leadership on the other. When the fighting started in Athens, ELAS Command issued orders of engagement against the British all over Greece. These orders were cancelled by ELAS High Commitee. In Thessaloniki, country's second largest city, general Markos Vafiadis, commander of ELAS northern divisions, asked for a permission to attack the British there with two divisions and to open a second front. He was denied. The same in the city of Patras. In fact the only force that participate in the battle of Athens was the local ELAS, a reservist force, light equipped and ill experienced, while heavily armed and experienced divisions were watching or were send to chase EDES remnants.
Colonel Fletcher Prouty described how as Romania was falling to the Red Army he had to fly to Syria to pick up Allied airmen who were arriving by train and were former prisoners who had been removed from there. He said there were other people- Axis functionaries who accompanied them which he was not ready for and he said these were intelligence assets and he wondered how it was possible that these people were being removed when the Soviet Union was an ally. He had flown over devastated Soviet cities such as Kharkhov and he wondered what it meant. These people were ferried on his aircraft and they signed banknotes with their names which he said he still had in his possession and this was some time in August 1944 I assume. He speculated that there were plans for the future and these people were going to be very useful.
Very well structured and portrayed story. Just a few remarks. 1. You should have mentioned the great well (pigada in Greek) of Meligalas. For poetic reasons at least. That is were all the bodies were dumped after the executions. 2. You need to emphasize (and I believe this is true in other countries as well) that all sides (collaborators during the occupation and the guerillas especially after the liberation) were killing and looting in an extremely arbitrary manner. People were executed simply because their neighbour held a grudge against them for whatever reason (even because of denying their love and affection, true story). My grandfather was about to be executed because he complained about a blanket that the guerillas confiscated from him. He evaded death by sheer luck. Also keep in mind that the collaborators did a lot of atrocities and got away with it in the end. They raped, killed and pillaged and literally only a small portion of them got punished in the end. (Btw I can't wait to see your episode about the trials of nazis in Germany courts post war- mock trials, slap on the wrist punishments). 3. You should at some point mention Aris Velouchiotis and his black hooded riders. A Che Guevara like figure of the Greek post war civil war. Also you should mention Nikos Zachariadis. A Lenin - Stalin like figure leader of the KKE during the civil war. All the best. Cheers 🥂
1. We chose not to mentioned the πηγάδα, because it would attract nasty comments 2. Lack of time, we 're afraid. 3. In contrast with "The Great War" channel, we don't do bio episodes here (especially for a man like Άρης Βελουχιώτης). Also, Βελουχιώτης was most of the times obedient to EAM and KKE, the two persons who were holding real power were Γιώργος Σιάντος and his deputy Γιάννης Ιωαννίδης
F!lthy commies and their lies, your pedophilic idol aris velouchiotis is a piece of tr2sh like you, executing innocents and children, and dont forget the ribbentrop pact you flthly commie, when nazis attacked they liberated communist sc2m from prison
Modern historians should research this Mediterranean phenomenon of the civil wars in this era ( Spanish before ww2, Italy during ww2 and Greece after ww2 ).
Very good video! love the politics of the minor nations in this war, relevant to the end and beyond. I was a little dissapointed that there was no mention at all of Aromanians, but to be fair that is quite an obscure topic indeed. Perhaps they'll get a mention later on? Still, fantastic work regardless
The more I learn about Churchill's military and political life, the more it seems to come to light that although he was a great leader for England, he was a plague to all other countries whether they be allies or enemies. (This is, admittedly an extreme opinion, but it is said only to emphasize the point of Churchill's repeated and even blatant disregard for the sovereignty and lives of people who were not English.)
Weak Greece was the bait Churchill laid for Hitler and Mussolini. Thousands of Greeks died or left crippled during the fighting, and thousands starved to death or executed under the Nazi's occupation. Then British did lots of sabotage in occupied Greece resulting again and again in death penalties by the Nazis against the local population plus mass destruction of the country's infrastructure. At the end of the war, Churchill agreed Stalin to have the power over the Balkans except Greece, and so Stalin dropped the Greek communists while British and Greek forces started to push from the south and a civil war erupted. Again thousands of Greeks died in both sides, soldiers of the tactical army, partisans, and citizens. Greece was always the bloody buffer which was used by the West either for financial tricks (the actual story behind the "Greek debt") or to balance powers to the East. Crusades, Ottomans, Soviets. Greece is under a financial recovery, for now, and who knows what the future will bring again from the interests and the plans of the West and the East.
Like all too many conflicts, the waters is too muddied and bloodied to figure it out and the participants are too stubborn to come to any reasonable solution.
You can see how the rise of the Colonels in the 50's and 60's Came about with the old animosity's Bubbling up to be used as Justification for their Crackdowns Arrests and arbitrary actions all the way through to the early 70's ..Interesting Video Cheers Sparty
This is the best video i have seen in youtube in 2023.As a Greek i want to thank you for this almost unheard part of history that ruined my country in the games between West and East and the ending speech was the best possible way to end that video
Thanks a lot for the compliments! Glad that we have been to shine a little light on a part of history most often forgotten. Never Forget! -TimeGhost Ambassador
sun of a gun !!!... never seen or heard a bloke , bloody or otherwise, with such an accurate impartial stance towards history i am half italian half greek from south west continental greece close to Olympia i know people who participated in the resistance against the Huns and their affiliates ...this Brit here is staunchly accurate. congratiulations gentleman ...for this beyond BBC exposure of pure truth. kalimera from Kalamata to all true history lovers outthere
An actually balanced and factual presentation of the facts. I'm impressed. Unfortunately even the history books here do a poor job of outlining the total failure of all sides to reach an understanding that resulted in this civil war that has divided Greeks for over half a century.
When i was in college at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, one of things that we learned about ( i did an advanced course in sociology) was how narrative divergence and differences can create contrasting views of the same event, leading to conflict. What we learned is from our professor is that narrative building is an integral part of forming identity, whether it's national, ethnic, communal, etc. In order for a narrative to be accepted by a community or group, it doesn't have to rely on objective reality or the facts of what happened, but what is perceived as reality and experienced as such, in order to provide a given story. In other words, a narrative about a historical event may not necessarily be true, but it can be true enough to form a story that provides something concrete that a given community or group can coalesce behind and adopt as their own. For example (you may be familiar with this if you have kids), you have two children. One day they're fighting. You pull them apart and ask "who threw the first punch?" They both point at each other and say "he did it!" That's an example of narrative divergence. Finding out "who threw the first punch this morning?" may be factual, but this morning's fight can't be separated from the fight last night. The professor then explained this phenomenon often comes to fruition, violently, when it involves the formation of nations. As is commonly quoted, a nation is "a collection of myths and hatred of our enemies." Why? Because nations rely on narratives that are NOT EXACTLY TRUE in order to forge a shared ideal that the nation can rally around. When one applies this to many of the world's geopolitical conflicts, you find that it fits. In this regard, Israel, for example, in the context of the Arab Israeli conflict, fits right in. This phenomenon is often the reason why so many conflicts are long lasting and intractable; how we experience reality and what's objective reality widely varies depending on the time and place, as well as the parties in question. This seems more like sociology than history, but it plays out often in history, where two or more parties can have different narratives about the same event while BOTH are true. How does one break the deadlock? Tell me what you think!! Thanks for your work!!
@@AlwaysPossible100 um, nothing I said had anything to do with supporting either side in the Arab Israeli conflict. As a matter of fact, I cited it as one of many examples of how narrative divergence leads to conflict, often violently so. It applies throughout history, whether it's the Cold War, the War on Terror, etc. At no point did I "sprout an ideology" or take an ideological position on anything. I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth or accusing me of pushing some kind of agenda. I spoke about a lesson in sociology, nothing more, nothing less. Finally, you know as well as I do that the issues regarding the Arab Israeli conflict has been discussed on this channel, with an entire series dedicated to the 'Suez Crisis' for example. It's curious to me that you chose to single my OP out for criticism when I said almost nothing about the subject, or even anything about current events. Like I said, I spoke of a lesson in sociology, that had nothing to do with past or current events. It would be helpful for you to not put words in my mouth that I never said. Thanks.
@worldWarTwo Couple of comments on the overall good report. During the Occupation of Greece by the Germans, there was only one collaborative operations between EDES, ELAS and SOE, it was the destruction of the Gorgopotamos Bridge. The Demonstration of 2/12/44 was unarmed when the Police or British (still unknown) opened fire to the crowd, as it happen again the next day 3/12/44. The order of EAM on December was to hit British troops. And fun fact the during WW2 Athens was air bombed only once and that was by the British on the 11/1/45.
Thanks for documenting the human drama happening during WWII. As a baby boomer I thought I had a good understanding of the war but you are greatly expanding my knowledge.
In my living room I have a vase. It is an empty, british mortar shell that my grandmother found in the smithereens of her house in Athens. It was December of 1944. My other grandmother lost her house at the Piraeus bombing by the Germans in April 1941. Fucked up era.
Stalin was in no mood to openly confront the West in 1944-45, and the feeling was mutual. The USSR was exhausted and had to bring its new vassals and puppets to heel.
Thesis: Stalin didn’t intervene because he thought the far-left Greeks could win power without him, as Tito had done in Yugoslavia. Even with a Greek government keeping its distance with Moscow as Tito did, he would’ve had another friendly state to the south.
In the immediate post-war period, it seems that Stalin legitimately did just want to 'Finlandize' all of Eastern Europe into a general sphere of influence. Rather than imposing direct Soviet-style governments onto those countries, he and some of his advisors (Malenkov, Beria) wanted them to be governed by liberal-socialist-communist governments. He most certainly didn't want the hassle of enflaming tensions with the West (in Europe at least), and was amenable to let the East be 'free' (like Cold War Finland) in exchange for transit rights, economic concessions, acceptance of Moscow's sphere of influence, etc. In some cases he played diplomatic softball with the West in 1945-47, because he didn't want to inflame tensions with the other Allied Powers so soon after the war. A myriad of different factors prevented this, however. First, local communist forces in some countries (dominated by doctrinaire Stalinists blooded by the 30s and 40s) played fast-and-loose with Soviet expectations and sought to impose the Soviet-system within their own countries (often through great violence). This enflamed tensions between them and the liberals/socialists who were already distrustful of Stalin, resulting in them being unwilling to bend to the worst of the Soviet demands. Further, Stalin's own paranoia against 'counterrevolutionary elements' within his perceived sphere of influence led to the arrests (and executions) of more nationalist and anti-Soviet forces. This can be seen primarily in the case of Poland; already distrustful of the Poles, Stalin would purge the Home Army and other anti-German forces in the country as the Red Army rolled on through. Any attempts to reconcile the communists with otherwise amenable nationalists became impossible quite quickly, and as the West became more suspicious, locals became more opposed to the imposition of any pro-Soviet government, in any form. Stalin absolutely did want his empire, but he (and a number of Soviet officials) probably didn't want it quite as directly as it became. He wanted 'people's democracies' in their original form; a series of nice pro-Soviet governments which are filled with amenable liberal and socialist parties (like what Finland became). But because of his own actions, and the actions of local communists on the ground, and the Western growing mistrust (legitimate or no), this concept fell to the wayside after 1945, and Eastern Europe became the Eastern Bloc. Early on however, he wanted free reign in the sphere on influence, and was willing to play to his agreements with Churchill and Roosevelt by refusing to support the communists in places like France, Italy, and Greece. He expected an easy ride in Eastern Europe, and most certainly didn't want the Cold War to get as frosty as it did. But it did, and he pivoted towards more violent impositions of the Soviet-style of government.
I lived in Athens for eight years, about four miles from the KKE (Greek communist part)headquarters. There are still plenty of communists in Athens, mostly (apparently) in the western suburbs There's a lot of fascists too!
Zervas ended up becoming a minister in the post war years And most of the EDES officers being already officers before the war returned to the army Many paramilitaries also joined the new army
certainly together with all the traitors and collaborators of the Germans..that's why we still feel the bitterness of defeat every day seeing their descendants rule us
My grandfather fought in the civil war against the communists he was always telling us two stories. 1st: A man appeared out of nowhere shouting "brothers I'm sorry please forgive me" and would start hugging soldiers only for him and 2-3 other to die because he was a suicide bomber. And 2nd: he told me how precise he had to guide bombers to bomb a cave position, he was a radioman for the air force, he had the planes pass above the 5-6 times if I remember correctly.
18:15 zervas is an ex mayor of salonika right New democracy the name is a coincidence Thanks for the whole video about Greece 🇬🇷 It's nice learning about its history
My wife's grand uncle and great grandfather was both ELAS partisans In December 44 the "political Enlightener" of grand uncle's unit told the partisans that " now we should fight for the creation of the socialist society" Grant uncle being a teenager at the time was like " well that wasn't the deal" You see often for many who didn't had any connection but wishing to fight ELAS was the only choice in their region Anyways when he told his father what happen, his father buried the rifles - almost in a native American fashion The war was over for them ... Or did it? 😏
Why were there so many Greek Communists back then? I get the feeling that for once it wasn't due to Soviet encouragement and support. Were they genuinely attracted to communism's promise of a classless society with everyone sharing the work and everyone being compensated equally? It sounds nice but weren't the horror stories of pre-war Soviet forced collectivization, 5 year plans, and Gulags becoming known to Greece and the rest of Europe by 1945?
During the Great Famine, which took place in the entire Axis Occupation, but peaked during the winter of 1941-42, multitudes were radicalized, especially among the younger generations. As for the knowledge of Soviet purges during the 30's, no, there was ignorance, especially if you calculate that many villages and small towns in rural mountainous Greece were more or less isolated, with poor road and communications network
Yes… but it’s not just the Great Lakes… the Swedish lakes are in the Atlantic, lake Geneva is near Bordeaux, lake Victoria on the wrong side of Africa etc etc - there was an error when I exported the file for printing that i didn’t see on the small screen. At some point, without noticing, I moved the layer with all continental waters in it to the left 😬 I’m going to have it reprinted and redo it, but haven’t had time to do that yet.
What bothers me more is Switzerland, which is blue while all the other neutral countries are brown. I love the idea of such a printed map in the background, though!
@@spartacus-olsson I was wondering about that. I checked the pixel RGBs to make sure it wasn't an optical illusion, but I couldn't check that it wasn't captured on camera that way because of the light.
21:03 it's ironic that Churchill talked about democracy and yet also said this If we needed more evidence to dislike him Thank you sparty and team for this excellent video
Churchill spoke about democracy while at the same time wanted to re-establish the king and his minions. all of them were people that fled the country after it fell to the Germans and their only concern during the war was how to make sure they will be brought back after it was over. It was no surprise that the part of the population that did join the resistance wanted little or nothing to do with them. What made matters worse is that both the British and the re established government resorted to ex nazi collaborators to man the Security Forces, in order to secure their power. Sparty mentioned that King was brought back after a referendum. If that referendum took place on 1944 the King would have no option but to live as a tourist in England.
Churchill: "I missed out being able to really screw up the Middle East during the last war, so we need to step it up and totally screw up Europe in this one!"
Though he did step in on one side in the post-occupation Greek political mayhem, this seems a kind of sideshow to the greater strategic standoff that would be the Cold War. Not so much starting the Cold War but showing the outline of things to come.
While I understand why the Greek conflicts just before the end of WW2 is a good place to mark the start of the cold war. I believe that the cold war started many months if not couple of years before with the decisions made in the Kremlin to subvert or ignore any group that was not pro Soviet in eastern Europe. They even tried to get a foot hold in Italy by trying to insist that it should be divided up much like Germany was at the end of WW2.
Greece is the only country in Europe where the Nazi collaborators didn't face any repercussions once the war ended. In fear of Russian expansion and by U.S & U.K demand they where given full amnesty for their crimes and handed the keys to run Greece for decades.
Don't spread misinformation, the 3 Greek prime ministers during occupation died in prison, Poulos executed etc. More would be punished if EAM/ELAS hadn't started a civil war in 1943.
During a State of War you do not get time to worry about these things. Also again stop just blaming the West. The East had plenty of collaborators with them.
i think you needed to take a moment to elaborate on the last speech. there is honor, righteousness, and nobility in fighting and dying for many causes. defending your countrymen against a murderous regime is one of them. the inglory, and dishonor fall upon the butchers.
Greece is certainly one of the oddest tales of the war in that Germany invaded, occupied AND liberated Greece. After issuing orders to fight to the last man and/or bullet, it's really out of character to simply abandon a place.
Many recordings of Hitler's speeches survived the war and can still be viewed today, including the infamous Triumph of the Will directed by Leni Riefenstahl. We did an episode on her several years ago as well. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VYjHpC2u7ck.htmlsi=4pXND-lMqLgsyci5 -TimeGhost Ambassador
It might be interesting to investigate the history on Cham Albanians during this period…Greeks committed the second worse genocide of WWII during that period. But people dont know it
Does one of the two contributors, Spartacus Olsson, have perhaps in some way Albanian roots? I am curious, as I have come across an Albanian named Spartacus. Which of the two is the very effective and interesting rhetor?
Although I hate the kind of pro-nationalist rhetoric we get here even here when we have a lot of the facts laid out, one comment did make me think, how much less suffering there may have been in post ww2 Europe if nations had their own civil wars/negotiations and right to self determination rather than artificially being forced into spheres of influence which they (their people) had no interest of being in. Poland would certainly not be communist, Greece would probably not have been nationalist, France may have even gone communist. Kind of insane that these countries which were all victims of Fascist domination not only had to suffer a brutal occupation, but also had to abide by or sometimes even fight the allies after being "liberated". And then there's just Francisco. The allies (well most of them) sure fucked that up.
