How College Broke the Labor Market 

i used to be a nebula member, but since they ended the colaboration with curiousityStream, there is no more way to pay for your subscription if you don't have a creditcard. As a european with an excellent debit-card banking system, I do not have a creditcard.

A lot of people in "blue collar" jobs like my uncle, take offense at the term "blue collar" because it gives those jobs a negative stigma, that society has yet to overcome.

That's what post-industrial economic is: native nation is highly educated and do well paid job and immigrants do low paid job. In order for the market to stabilize, trained people who cannot find work can go to Canada or the EU, where there are a large number of jobs for people with higher education.

Do you think Nebula will ever have a comments section

​@@ianandersen265I understand his viewpoint, but for me, the term 'blue collar' work holds more importance than 'white collar' jobs, which often seem less meaningful.

Yes - lack of whose interest? Often, it is lack of parental interest, not a lack of student interest. My high school had this same thing. A woodworking class and an auto-shop class. Both universally beloved by students, both gone now.

I imagine they were right: there was no interest on the part of the school administration.

Lack of donation and investment interest

As an Asian immigrant. The biggest flaw of the American education is the coddling of every student even when they are making stupid mistakes. "Everyone is special!" "Follow your heart!" "You can be anything you want to be!" which are all terrible advice but yet that's what's engrained in their young impressionable minds. This exact opposite of what we Asian Americans teach our children "you can be anything you want to be as long it's STEM" and no talking back, and you might not like it but it's the right advice. This is why Asian Americans are so successful.

@@xiphoid2011 "You can be only be what we want you to be" is precisely why the oversaturation of college exists.

Oh, don't get me started on corporate rightsholders and academic press!

Fuck that shit. I just straight up don't buy them, and studied from my notes instead. Or go to the library and read it there if necessary

online pdfs…

cant you just pirate them? like scanned pdf of the book? in my country, I saw some people taking photocopy of books and downloading pdf.

I would always wait till after the first test. If I failed, I’d buy the book. If I did just fine without the book, why would I buy it? I also often tried to find an older edition. Most of the time the chapters are just moved around. Total scam.

Corpos get the Corpo experience don’t work for mega corps work for an individuals small business or build your own

Wait until their high end Tesla (because they actually believe they are helping the climate) fails and there is only 1 mechanic in the city that can service the car. I do have a friend that went through the experience you describe. He was lucky because just as he was deciding to throw in the towel on his business, the execs came back to get their car fixed and he added a "snob" fee to the bill. (OK, he had better words but that is what it effectively was)

Ford was awful to work for, but Toyota was nice, it depends on your owner and service manager.

The people that society rely on are always hated

I’m a machinist (also a mechanic for fun) and have decided to at least try and go to college. Every shop i’ve worked in, from 5-person small outfits, to multinational defense contractors, I’ve been overworked and underpaid. I’ve been in the trade 10 years and have never made enough to be fully financially independent.

The politician lied

Politicians are nearly all from colleges - and they despise those who are not.

​@davedsilva Of course the politician would lie. As a current undergrad, I don't really feel anything other than exhausted by a good amount of professors who essentially treat us as they would high school students. It feels like just another high school as far as academics go, but I need to have the degree in order to really grt a job. Even that isn't holding up though, as many businesses are going under right now, so what is the point of college? To get a paper that says I don't need to be treated like a kid?

They want you to take out student loans. That is what that is all about. They are just like salesmen from the big credit card companies. Big student loan companies make donations to their party. Politicians also get kickbacks and other perks.

Imagine if we didn’t have an illegal immigration problem. Plumbers would be payed more than doctors. Supply and demand lol

Bingo!

Exactly

But there are at least arguments for cutting different programs that allow for the disagreement. Not wanting their child to get paid six figures for a trade is simply foolish.

​@@cloudkitt ​​ it's not when those parents either don't want their children (and sometimes, by extension, their family) to have to weather the stigma of not attending college or university (like in China, but certainly not an example to follow), or they have those close to them in skilled labor and they see the often brutal physical toll some of said trades will exact on their bodies. Never mind that a not insignificant number of tradespeople will never see the six-figure salaries you mention, even in unionized jobs, and what is happening to college now will happen to the trades if they are eventually oversaturated too. Can't forget about the nepotism present in the higher-earning trades as well

Social security, Medicare, and defense. They along with interest on the debt are over 60 percent of spending.

Thanks for sharing the story

stories like those make me wish i had that opportunity but am relegated to college for stem feilds or working for my dad before he sells it and left homeless for whatever future awaits me

Dang.....!

​@@Kevin-qj7fp homeless or hopeless?

Not true. All elevator and escalator installation is Union. So, he would have to join the union first and then be sent out as the jobs came in. In the first two years you don't work with just one person.

That is actually hilarious, yet poetic

Even in Africa... Studying abroad is the stigma there.... Like studying in Europe but it's still the same problem

It's the same in India too.

Canadian and literally this. we got fucked over and openly lied to every step of the way and now we're being told it's our fault if we didn't succeed.

😂😂 you haven’t worked hard enough

Noy enough cold showers my man :D

a prudent recommendation

Solid advice as someone with a masters degree

Thank you for posting this. I got a trade job out of high school (pharmacy technician, requires a license that you can self study for or take a year program). It helped me get out of minimum wage which allowed me to work the weekends (Fri/Sat/Sun) then going to community college full time (bare minimum units to qualify as full time). I did this for 8 years to get my Computer Engineering degree (mix between Computer Science and Electrical Engineering) due to my struggle to get through Calculus and near the end classes were too impacted (not enough teachers/classes too many students) and I had to go part-time due to class availability. Disclaimer: I paid for everything but rent because my parents allowed me to stay at home while pursuing an education. I commuted an hour to school (one way) and napped in my car between classes. I never got any scholarships because I was slacking/coasting through high school. I did qualify for financial aid through FAFSA (government funded program) which covered my community college costs and half of my university costs. Now I have a Software Engineer job that doubled my income, allowing me to fully support myself and save for retirement. No debt other than a single credit card I use for gasoline to maintain a credit score. I have coworkers who got full rides through university and career/salary wise they are ahead of me, but I appreciate the struggle I went through to get where I am today.

@@alexandrial6738 , I know well what you went through. I worked nights doing maintenance at an extrusion plant. The pay wasn't bad. With overtime, I made over 80K back then. However, I would leave work tired and all dirty with grease, and go straight to school. My classmates would all be dressed nice and clean while I would have stains on my arms and face. To this day I have my grease-stained philosophy book. No regrets though. I am in a much better situation than most of the people I grew up with.

Solid advice!

exactly college was about learning gaining knowledge not experience and hands on real world in the thick of the wild market changes in labor and demand and supply

It makes sense when you look at STEM degrees, but outside of that, I 100% agree.

That was bound to happen anyways. College is the only info you have about freshers thus employers are bound to consider their college for employment.

The problem is the withdrawal of actual state support for college AND vocational studies. Florida, not much subsidy for in state public college students. In California? Two year degrees (where the too few vocational programs actually are) is essentially free. We have over 100 CCs. CSU? A couple of thousand per year, with quite a few universities being in reasonably affordable places like Fresno and Bakersfield. I went to SFSU over 30 years ago, but today I would go straight to Bakersfield for a practically - relatively - free four year degree and low rents. (And nice outdoor activity spaces in the nearby mountains.) The UC where I teach? We are a research university system, prestigious and many students don't know what that is, and are very disappointed that we are not a high status trade school. But we know we are doing something right, our graduates do great. (We know by loan repayment rates, we have almost zero defaults and most students pay their subsidized tuition back early.) But you have to be a Californian to take advantage of any of the steep discounts that the state provides for citizens of the state. California takes care of our own.

@@stalbaum CA probably has the worst/dumbed down (public) K12 Ed in the country outside of the worst areas of the south. Btw, Florida’s public university system is actually one of the best in the country when you take according to USNews.

Not unless you do a skilled trade.

I’m a marine currently. An infantryman. By the time I get out and I’ll have 3 deployments under my belt and I plan on doing 3 years reserve afterward. I’ve been told I still need 2 years community college for a lot of police departments, especially as a state trooper. For what?

​@@donovanm3576just to check a box. Nothing else.

@@donovanm3576Been looking around for a new job as a machinist, been in the trade 6 yrs + 4 yrs of votech. I’m not even getting called for interviews for junior machinist roles. Almost every single position wants at least an associate’s in a stem field. You want someone who knows how run a cnc lathe, and I know how to. Why do you require me to have a degree, to “show initiative?” The fact I’ve been doing this since I was 14 should be enough.

I mean, it really depends on what she did. 6 years already sounds like she did not complete "in time", as even for a masters degree it should be 5 years, and some employers still might see that as a "no go". And if she made her degree in, say, philosophy, it is was and will always be tough.

Maybe so but she doesn't have 300K in student loan debt. In Denmark University is free for all.

"Free"

Was she a hot blonde at least?

It sounds like what you actually regret is going directly to college from HS.

@@drivethrupoet It sounds like you actually think you know my motivations better than I do.

@@CollinGerberding Just reading your words and pointing out something you may not have realized you said out loud, no offense intended. Do you think you would not have regretted college if you had chosen a different major or field? I'm here because I have an 18 yr old about to start college...or not...

Same boat, friend-o

@@drivethrupoet I appreciate the context. I was being prickly but I'm over it. The thing you mentioned was a thought, yeah, but I've had a lot of time to think about the the whole thing. End of file, I should have waited before I went to college. I grew up in the era of "this is what you do if you want to be succssful" without being educated on many of life's skills. Gen-x if you will. I can't say I never would have gone to college--in fact, years later, I did get a degree from an institution that has since been shut down due to predatory lending practices among other things (and admit the bias)--if I had not attended directly after HS. I'm 25 years down the line and so much more disillusioned. What does make sense is me taking the time to even think about a career, what I wanted to do, and if I needed to get a degree to do that. But I grew up in a time where you "had" to go to college. I spent five semesters changing majors every one. I got more from moving cities than I did from attending class. And there are a lot of interlocking parts between college and the rest of my life at that time. If your kid isn't fully jazzed about something they need a degree to do, maybe have a conversation with them about alternatives, including taking a year to think about it. I don't have kids so please don't take this as telling you what to do. Just, communication is key and it's the rest of their life. There are many other ways to get life's experiences than a four year degree. I appologize for my first response. I'm still a bit upset about the societal imposition that so forcefully guided the path of my experience. And I still have the loans from the school that was shut down. The first attempt, my parents paid for. Personally, I feel taking that 16K or so and putting me up in an apartment for a year would have been an equal or better use of their money. tl;dr talk to your kid and see if they really want to go to college and what their plan is. You sound open to alternative lifepaths, let them tell you if they have any ideas outside of college. Sorry I was rude.

Hold your ground, trust me, if you aren’t passionate in Uni you won’t succeed. If he’s found his skills, do all you can to keep him on that path. If you don’t truly want to be there I’ve seen so many kids just become incredibly miserable, don’t let that happen.

i’m about to graduate in Computer Science this semester. Biggest mistake of my short life so far, as there’s no jobs for new grads. Keep pushing him or he’ll end up like me 🙁

Sorry to hear this because they might just ruin everything. In my experience and observations - IF they push him into that he's going to fail out and can also miss his opportunity to be doing something he is meant to do and will even enjoy, (Trade school / apprenticing whatever it is) where he may well become a damn good mechanic. keeping in mind a damn good mechanic that likes to make people smile can do very VERY well financially, job security wise.

Maybe try sharing this video with him, or even them, too.

You need to speak up to your family honestly. Explain in detail why they're wrong and why you're right. Otherwise it'll fray relationships if left unsaid.

Their parents failed them to warn about the social disease of the vested interests in the money machine

Parents want to brag to each other about what fancy, expensive sounding college they went to not thinking they doomed their children.

Same dude. Never heard "skilled trades" til I was in the military from guys who were from Texas, Oklahoma, Tennessee, etc. They asked me how big was the "rock" I'd been living under...

Truly ! They swear they were the best but handicapped our generation .

@@davedsilvawhy did I literally just post exactly what u said under another comment! Yup! They just wanted a bragging point to their friends, they didn’t really care about your future . “Trash man” or even “elevator repairman” doesn’t sound as good as “office worker” even if they trash man makes 2x and incurs wayyy less debt !

Thats why I chose college, I didnt want my hearing to be toast by the time Im 30

Right, the trades may prevent you from being financially broke, but there’s such a high risk of becoming medically broke. And it’s much easier to earn more money later on than it is to completely heal from a chronic service-connected condition.

Yes. It becomes difficult to do that kind of work after a couple of decades. I went to trade school and don't regret it, but I much prefer my earnings from writing over the hot and cold work workshops that destroys my body over time.

Yeah, that's the same reason my parents didn't want me to do any trades. My mom knows quite a few people in the trade and they all have back and neck pains from their trades. Though I did end up joining the military instead so I didn't quite listen to my mom.

Yes, but on the other hand wokplace regulations have greatly improved and trades aren’t as back breaking as they used to be

I understood that reference

Boy, that was such a good movie The Incredibles.

"Everyone is special" is just another way of saying no one is (or something like that)

"When everyone is special, NO ONE IS."

Yes but it also leaves out the ultimate factor, the civil rights acts which outlawed IQ tests for employment, and so you have this expensive proxy.

A few years off in my discipline would make it much more difficult to continue your schooling. It depends on your area.

​@churblefurbles Wow, for real? Never heard of that. Thanks.

You Asian?

@@thenosa87That’s what I would have thought had I not seen a kumon in a tiny Mississippi town recently. I only knew of kumon from living in Japan years ago.

@@thenosa87 I finished both the maths and english program. I'm not asian (as you may gleam from my name.)

i remember walking into kumon and one girl used to cry and be dragged in

@@thenosa87 I am West Asian white.

all construction / blue collar jobs are

​@@lleyton8791it is a baggage of tradition

That's what everyone talking about the shortage of tradespeople never mention. There is a shortage, but a lot of them won't hire anyone who wasn't referred by a friend.

@@PXAbstraction And you are not even mentioning that the vast majority of these jobs and 99.9% of the high paying ones are union controlled.

white collar jobs are equally chalked full of nepotism lol

thought about getting into this. Normal guy at normal job so far, got lucky with crypto but know the money won't last forever and i'm not lazy, just looking for a change.

@@dbased1915 it's easy, Google has a certification course

My recommendation still is to find an employer willing to pay for your education. It is vastly overpriced for the average person. Most valuable skill you can have is leverage/negotiation/and knowing when to say no.

This. But for me it was my twenties. I spent the bulk of my twenties, going to school, studying and working that was it.

Just pain man. This usually happens around a person's quarter-life-crisis, too, so it is very tough pill to swallow for post-grads.

All this is necessary because of disparate impact laws that outlaw meritocratic hiring.

Never required college degree yet still demanded in the resume

I've had interviewers laugh in my face regarding my education. Ironically, every single day I've worked, my higher level of education has benefitted a given employer more - and I've never been paid better for it

That's kind of the trade-off with all the high-paying trades take line-man for instance. You can make up to $250k, but you can also fall off a pole and die. Hazard pay is a real thing.

Honestly, I have no problem with that. Its a pretty natural thing to happen too. How does the saying go? The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree? It’s the way it’s always been for all of human history. Your father was a blacksmith? You will 100% be a blacksmith. Your father is a poor farmer in the middle of nowhere? You will be a poor farmer out in the middle of nowhere. I have a friend who is in a very niche fuel business, and yes all because of his dad. No problem with that, it’s just the way the dice rolls. As for an elevator mechanic/installer? GUARANTEED you could find work if you’re willing to move.

I agree with the nepotism part. I looked at the job in the past but was very difficult to get in. I’m a controls specialist now though with a 2 year degree. Make $51 per hour with about 10hours of overtime per week.

​@@RK-ox2zp what is your 2yr degree in? Just electrical?

​@mrmidwestguy1496 I am the first one in my family to be an elevator mechanic. It was difficult, but fortunately, times are changing, and I have seen many very smart, skilled people gaining entry to the trade. If you score high on the entry test and you are willing to relocate, you will get in eventually.

I have to take this opportunity to point out - only in the US do we have that much individual autonomy (dare I say, liberty). Another concept we need to rein in from the extremists that want to go the socialist or communist route.

@@drivethrupoet That's not even close to true. There are dozens of countries that offer just as much or more career autonomy to their citizens. Have you never lived in another country before or something? This seems like one of those statements that's so off-base that only a really ignorant person could write it. What strikes me is how confident you are in your incorrect beliefs.

It wasn't going to college that hurt you, it was Republicans. Republicans get into power and think the game is just like Monopoly. In Monopoly if you had eight players, there would be seven losers. That has to and must change. This country isn't a damned monopoly board and if there ever is only a single winner left? You better believe their head is going to roll. That's has happened every single time in history. There is enough for these professions but the game has been skewed so horribly thanks to conservatives. People claim it as an identity but they are begging to be owned by the bank, begging to never really own land or property of their own, begging to have a boot on their neck, and begging to not have a thriving America like we were in the 1950s. What killed the prosperity of that time when people could own things? Conservatives did it. They have whittled back the anti-trust laws. They whittled back everything and made it so the rich get so fabulously rich and the poor never....ever....get fair pay or an end game that is compensation for their work. That's not socialism, that is just how the USA used to be...when we could have a few nice things and a 9-5 forty hour a week job, with security. Now, there isn't security. Just a machine that we are all part of. Now? Now it doesn't matter what your merits are or how hard you work, you will have less than your parents did. Why? Because of the dumbfuckery of that party guaranteeing that we fail and lose vitality and talent and waste that vitality and talent. It is from pin headed libertarians who think the world is a game of monopoly and 30% of the dimwitted country thinking that somehow that is going to be of benefit to themselves. It's licking the ass of the devil so you have something to eat after it comes out. It's gross. We need to scrap things and let the government intervene. People worry about tyranny and look to the politicians to say that is where it is coming from. It is the tyranny of the banks and the tyranny of the corporate system where we made laws that said corporations have more rights than human beings do. All of this is courtesy of the investors who are laughing at you right now with their offshore accounts while you get angry at the other party for the tax structure. You know, the guys who don't pay taxes and own us all. It wasn't that people weren't talented and couldn't have been put to work in their fields. It wasn't that there wasn't enough wealth to go around. The wealth was claimed and the reason that people can't succeed in their fields or have jobs in their fields boils down not to economics, but because it hasn't dawned on the owners of the land that it would be worth it to them or better for them. People own things and want to be paid just because they own it, but produce nothing. That is where this arises. All of it. Land and building owners extort people just for the use of the land and they produce nothing. IT is time to put it back in the hands of people and put these free loaders to work.

@@drivethrupoet "only in the US do we have that much individual autonomy" Are You joking? For most Europeans US labor laws are so abusive. Employer can do a lot of bad shit to you, can ruin your life... And US law offer almost no protection. And you call that "autonomy"...

@@selohcin Where have you lived? I'm an American, I'm 48 yrs old with life experience traveling, learning, meeting lots of people from other countries. This is why so many people want to come to the US. In the last, maybe, 5 yrs or so, you're all being groomed to believe otherwise.

Thank you for this information. I will use this to help myself and others.

This is the absolute worst part. Blue collar jobs exclude people who aren't children of people who did the same thing. Or worse the union is an old boys club and will do everything in their power to prevent you from getting a Apprenticeship and a job.

This is way too true. Education plays a big part in finding a career after school, but knowing somebody plays an even bigger role.

I have had the exact opposite experience. Only took me about 1.5 years of physical labor to switch to an apprenticeship. That’s all most companies require. Very low barrier to entry.

Other than retail I have never ever gotten a job by randomly applying. All my jobs were obtained by knowing someone already.

It was definitely easier, not nearly as much competition and employers had so much more common sense when hiring.

Nevermind being qualified. That's a trade so small and high paying that it's closed to anyone that isn't related by blood to an active member lol. Super nepotistic. Even then, it's not especially glamorous given the travel requirements.

Yeah I'm not sure where he got this from. Anyone who has ever googled "highest paid trades" find out about elevator mechanics real quick lol

@@Migwelp people in the trades know how much they travel. I always ask them where they’re from and no way.

@@JerryDSM Maybe that's why traveling skilled tradespeople make well into 6 figures, plus good benefits and usually a pension. You slugs can stand around in retail sales and complain.

The point is that there are niche jobs that pay well. I'm a commercial glazier and it's a dying field. Most companies will pay for your certifications.

what is your degree in?

Did you research supply and demand for your chosen career before you went for it?

@@dannydaw59 How is a teenager supposed to accurately & with good judgement, research supply & demand when the numbers are outdated and intensely volatile?

Get a Bachelor's Degree in General Studies like I did. Now there is a degree that is not worth the paper it is printed on, the you've-been-in-school-so-long-we'll-just-graduate-you-now discipline. In-hindsight, I wish that I had been taken in and learned a trade because I see those people making better money and enjoying more of life than I ever will.

Your parents used you as a trophy....it's their fault for this happening to you. No victims, only selfishness and stupidity.

I was an assistant professor of economics at the U. of Arizona in the early 80s and students could get a degree without taking a Calculus course. On the first day of class I would give a test to see how much students knew. One third of the students could not do 1/2 + 1/3. Later on I taught at the U. of Paris in France and undergraduates could do Fourier Transforms. The undergraduate level is in crisis mode at Anerican universities.

Business nowadays is one of the most useless degrees nowadays. I see very few buisness majors interested in buisness, most would rather go to a frat party. I used to tutor math in college and most people who didn't even know how to add fractions were people with useless degrees.

My mistake was not going to college when I was born in 1992.

Oke, but compared the labour market then vs now. I should have finished college then to, my mistake being born in 2001.

College was much cheaper then + massive benefits via the tech sector boom 90s to 2010s. Now everyone and they're cousins have degrees so compensation around the board in all aggregated sectors has been pushed down.

I should have gone to college in the 90s instead of going to kindergarten in the 2000s

My cousin works at Walmart. She worked her way up and now makes like $35 an hour. Just bought her first house. Here I am.. a nurse. I went to college and absolutely hate my job. My other cousin went to college and is now a teacher and hates her job. College is not worth it. Sometimes I wish I would have just started at Walmart. Maybe I wouldn't have all this student loan debt for a job I don't even like.

​@@Starbright317Your cousin makes $35/hr at Walmart, too? My dad just told me that's what my cousin is making as a forklift operator in their distribution center. Although, I'd imagine he has some more responsibility than just that, like some managerial duties.

Yup 😊

@@ASMRDoodlezi just never understand why we gotta go to college so we can get into debt. I tried it at DeVry and I left after two years. I owe 30k just for 2 years and 3 certificates. The real money is at trade works. I have my certifications in logistics, I have my CDL A and many endorsements. Easily, I earn more than a college grad. Last year, my gross was 115,000 dollars.

You're still a failure, they just are as well

Lol, I skipped to the end just to see his transition. Well done!

Man has personal beef against china

😭😭

It is about the US. China is just a warning case about how bad things could get.

do not talk about china for one video challenge IMPOSSIBLE

I went to an Ivy League school and I swear it is the amount of nepotism at those Ivy schools that results in a TON of drug addict dropouts. It is crazy.. Like way more than a normal state school where people become alcoholics.

That's the America dream baby

@@brent4073I was a non blue blood kid who had the academic merits for an Ivy league school. I went to my state university because I feared this fate as a non-nepo baby. Happy to say I’m a well-treated mildly-depressed functioning alcoholic in my 30s, with a very promising career, a beautiful wife, and a good support group. I probably would’ve become a drug addict a world away surrounded by the hippies lmao

@@aaronscarpa7469 Yeah, I regret not going to my local state school to maintain more friends and my long term gf at the time. We were meant to stay local in our own tribes.

I met a kid recently working at a sushi restaurant. First he dropped out of Harvard, then he dropped out of community college, then he dropped out of his rehab program. He was getting by, but he was working 60 hours a week to live at a motel lol.

This is exactly the reason why i am happy i went through the route in life i have. i have enough joint issues as it is which can't be exercised away, without doing a career that exacerbates them.

Yeah, rather than push only "go into trades," I'd rather see reform in white-collar jobs to remove as many requirements for a degree as possible. There is no reason someone should spend 4, 5, or even 6 years in college studying to be a CPA or lawyer and then STILL have to pay another few thousand dollars for a prep course! Abolish the education requirement and go back to allowing multiyear apprenticeships to count as training. Trust me, someone spending 4 years actually working in a CPA or law firm would know far more than someone who spent the equivalent time strictly in a college setting!

Another part is the struggle of going back to school after graduating. You get less breaks financially, most college grads are buried in debt and alot are burned out from "schooling". If someone spent 6 years getting a bachelor, another 1 year certification program is more daunting.

This is true to a point. But, with modern tools and safety knowledge, you don't have do destroy your body. You just can't work for someone that will want you to

There’s also a little a**hole called physical disabilities

Good.

Now’s the time if you want to get in on the ground floor.

​@@AbsentMinded619 I'll just get on when they finish and ride the thing to the top ... Seems faster

My old HS were teaching mobile mechanic and welding. I had friends who graduated and they were making more money then me as I went off in college. If I could have start over, I would have learn a trade or two before college.

And college is free or low cost for most there

It doesn't help that the old heads all absolutely earned a reputation as hard-headed pricks without a capacity or desire to train the next generation. So many small business trade companies seemingly hire exclusively journeyman level and up. You'd be hard pressed to find any guys willing to take an apprentice.

@@eisenkrieg553 Go to community college first and earn a pre-apprentice trade certificate. Then start applying to various contractors/companies. In recent years, many young dudes have ruined the entrance requirements into the skilled trades. Small shops cannot stand taking on new apprentices (with prior no experience) for work, only for these dudes to flake out in a few months.

yeah like, they're telling people that they gonna be good in just 4 Years? no wonder they need 6+ years of more in-Job Training before they're considered Experienced in their job unless if you're already learning by yourself from the age of 8

My classes in west coast US region we’re about 80 people in a class and I assumed I would just learn from the web at that point

The average public university class size in the US is 24.9 students. He was referencing an outlier to support his argument, but in reality the average university in the US has only 6400 students and most don’t allow a fifth of their student body to attend the same class at once lol

​@@fatboyRAY24sure but those classroom figures are from those bloated colleges in Arizona Florida and Jersey right?

as a UCLA student my CS class has like 900 students a quarter lmao many students coudlent even get in even if they wanted to

Same man. I went to a Catholic prep school. I was pushed to attend college and it was 100% not the right move for me. I graduated but I hated college and the job I had after. I went into the "middle skilled" labor market later as a bicycle mechanic and I am much much much happier.

I had a STEM degree but ironically the best part of college that I think is essential for everybody is the humanities subjects. Take any class in geography, anthropology, sociology, etc. and learn a bit about the world and our place in it. The degree I majored in almost never mattered on the job, but the humanities helped me be a better human being.

i got pushed into college only for a STEM degree that i only later find out i should rather drop out to go to another field instead for a lazy bum like me, i would better be doing what i like to do or what i can already do well, like foreign language, instead of chasing the trends

I don’t regret going to college but I do regret picking a popular, relatively easy major, communications. I went into it not knowing what I wanted to do, but knowing that I hated math and liked writing. It wasn’t until after getting real world experience that I had a better idea of what I would have liked to study and even that has evolved over the years. I was pushed to go to college immediately after graduating high school and that people who plan to take time off between high school and college often end up never going to college, which we were told, of course, leads to ruin. The first “real job” I got after college, meaning my first salaried job with benefits, was basically an administrative role that required a bachelors degree but I could have done with an associate’s and a smarter person could have done with a high school diploma. In fact if high school properly prepared kids for the workforce, even I could have done it with a high school diploma. After working at that job, ironically, I had a better idea of what I could have majored in. This has actually evolved through the years. I’m almost 50 years old, and just now realizing I would love to go to college for economics but would have been so intimidated by that at 18. My main point is I think getting more working experience between high school and college should be encouraged. In Europe “gap years” are common. Now the privileged will travel or volunteer during this gap year but I feel simply working for pay in some capacity, whether a standard retail job or some kind of paid internship is the best way to use a gap year.

"religious propaganda?" Really? You realize that's just... propaganda.

Jesus Christ 100k in college debt. What did she study?

​@@giovannimontenegro1162 I went to law school and after all of it I sailed past $200k

College does not make economical sense anymore

Great on paper, but give it ten years and the college grads will be making 2x what they’re making now. 30 years and it’ll be 3-4x more, something that isn’t attainable or possible in a trade.

@@giovannimontenegro1162 my sister has 150k in debt while i stopped my first year because of poor grades i wasent ready or anything at least i was introverted and observation list so i could seee some of the warnings plus i wasent sure and a host of other problems

I agree that it's a big part of it. I think college can be helpful for alot of people, but there's no reason to go for it if you aren't actually passionate about your studies. If you are only going to college for a paycheck at the end, options like the military and other paths make alot more sense.

​@@NigelMelanisticSmith Nope fool. College jobs have saturated. Now is time for technical jobs.

Is NYC as bad as they say? Crime and security and stuff?

@@nishant54 tech is more saturated than you can imagine

It has nothing to do with college. They are presumably liberals who object to the military

But how are techies going to continue sticking their noses up at their "lessers" who built the houses they live in and in most regards are more valuable to society then?

Agree

Same in my country. I've seen 7-11 cashier ads that require bachelor degree.

Revolution is needed

outsourced hiring agents does that. they have no incentive to actually do their job they just want the money from the company thats they're getting paid from.

You have a point. I'm in Australia too. I wonder how the younger cohorts are managing. It must be very hard.

Yeah, hire and fire instead of investing in good people.

Alright maybe I'm coming from a different point of view as I skipped college after 1st year, come from a 3rd world country (Argentina) and worked on the family business for a few years.. I recently landed an official warehouse/office job in a car repair workshop 9h a day (10 if you count lunch break) 5 days a week, which is standard over here. So far I've been loving it compared to being independent. I have clear separation between personal life and work, guaranteed pay at the end of the month and overall a healthier schedule. If I ever dared ask a day off (which I'll try my best not to, as the workshop needs me to do my part for clients to get their cars fixed in time) I would assume the default is I'm not getting paid for it. Why would I get paid for work I didn't do? How is that different from stealing? Now if my boss says it's fine I won't complain, but it's not their duty, it's their good will and I'm not entitled to it. I dunno, I think many people nowadays glorify and/or demonise entrepreneurs and independent workers while taking for granted the benefits of a common job and ignoring the drawbacks of being your own boss. Most independent workers have no concept of holidays, as all days are (or can be at least) work days. Likewise, independents get no "benefits" and never get paid when they take time off. Yes, overall they earn more $ per hour, but considering the increased risk and the fact they do the boss's job on top of their normal work, that seems fair to me.

Do you think only Blue Collar workers work a lot of overtime? The difference is Blue Collar workers get paid extra for their over time. Ask any Doctor in residency how many hour a week he works. I worked both Blue Collar and White collar both work a lot of overtime in the US. The difference is Blue Collar workers are guaranteed extra pay for the overtime they work and White Collar workers may get extra pay for the overtime they work, but frequently don’t.

@@matthewhuszarik4173 Of course not, lol. Overtime happens across the board. But at least most white collar work won't come with the chance of getting a lingering back injury (for instance) that makes you unemployable for future jobs. Also, my fiancee is a resident. I get annoyed with how much they make them work and how they get around overtime rules.

@@matthewhuszarik4173 Honestly I'm a bit unfamiliar with the whole colour collar thing division, over here we don't have that concept that I know of, people I know more often make differences between per-contract/salaried/entrepreneur workers instead To be fair though, I just got lucky to land a job in what seems to be a very good environment. The business isn't massive, it's a medium sized workshop with I'd estimate about one or two dozen employees at most. Bosses work in an office one wall from the warehouse, there's a policy explicitly for closing on time and not doing overtime, and the overall mood is rather friendly. You're expected to do your part, but also allowed to speak your mind and promote new ideas. By this I don't mean to gloat about my luck (alright maybe a little) but to say I'm aware that not every job here or anywhere else has a good environment, so my positive view of it may be skewed by what'l likely an above average employer. Pay isn't above average though, it's around the same or a bit less than any other entry level basic job, but I'm willing to put up with that if it means I don't end up hating my whole existence. I'll always take a good job with average or below average pay over good pay with an intolerable workplace, and that applies to all jobs I've done so far As for overtime.. as I hinted before, it really depends on your employer. Some will pay more than others, some may not even want to pay at all, some jobs will have a clear schedule and some will be a massive mess. Same goes for independent work: you _can_ be independent and have a good schedule, but you depend on yourself to enforce it. The overall value you get from salaried work imposing a schedule on you will heavily depend on your self-management skills: If you're good at managing your time you'll be better off being independant, but if you're really bad at it you may benefit a lot from.investing time into finding a good boss that will do it for you, even if that means that boss takes a good chunk of the value your work generates.

I was told all through high school by counselors that I need to take this and that class to look good ok my college application. Told them nope I'm going into the military and that'll look good on my application in 4 years time. They hated me for that. They had me sign a stupid amount of documents saying I wouldn't this class or that class. In the end the counselors just couldn't break me because I had decided right when I entered high school I was joining the military unlike others who barely even knew what they were gonna do in life.

I narrowly avoided that myself, I was lucky enough to have a person tell me my freshman year. I changed schools and became an accountant.

Math PhD here. Turns out even having a doctorate does you no good. Now I’m overqualified from doing anything normal, I refuse to work for banks or military contractors, and teaching is extremely competitive for (usually) extremely low pay, at best middling pay, and a whole lot of verbal abuse and b.s.

@@rue-for-you-music Unless you join a board or do a leveraged buy out on a business the vested interested to a money machine don't care about morals. The problem with good men they don't seek power

​@@rue-for-you-musicNSA?

Disagree with your second point. Americans look down heavily on worthless degrees, as do people globally

This "elitism" is part of human nature. People who didn't go to university in Russia are also seen as uncouth proletarians. Even if they make good money, they are still seen as lucky peddlers or bandits who deserve none of their success. And to be honest, my personal experience has strengthened this world-view in me. University is more than just about money: going to university teaches one how to behave in an educated society. I respect skilled labourors on a rational level, I know they are the backbone of my country's reindustrialisation, but, subconsciously, I still end up seeing them as different from myself. Decades of underfunding and inclusivity have taken a tall on vocational schools and their graduates...

People who are uneducated or aren't self driven to study something are very boring people to just to talk to, the banter they have is very mind numbing. Not that every person doing construction is the above but a lot of them just work and go home and watch netflix all day. It's just completely unrelatable.

​@@John_Smith_86 Canadian who has studied in the US. What really surprised me was how much people ask about where somebody went to school. In Canada, it's usually more about what you studied first.

tell that to OhEf MODELs 👀

You mean graduates, not undergraduates? You're only an undergraduate if you haven't graduated yet.

More likely underemployed since todays unemployment is pretty low

I’m an unemployed professional 😭

Stole your idea and made my own comment for my situation and people. Lol. But all the luck and well wishes to those of you here.

My degree is useless 😤🔥💯💯💯💪🦅

It's like you don't want to say it! It was already an expected basic requirement for any sort of affluent life with enough financial stability to be able to move towns/buy land/travel etc. The barriers are great if you just want whites in for CEOs and bankers and doctors and accountants and y'know the financial power to become politicians

I had a college professor tell me he has deliberately made his introductory classes harder because the waved SAT/ACTs requiments at the time were filling his class with kids who couldn't cut it

@@nickwilson7796 10000 Applications 4000 accepted 1000 enrolled 500 offered a seat in the junior class 200 at graduation Make it so hard that the best and brightest flunk out. (+120 IQ) I graduated from a #1 University, Highest median starting salary from a public institution in the USA. Only Engineering school, ALL students take the same courses for the first 3 years. An Alumnus paid for my education, FREE. Look at the degree of an 85 IQ graduate. Look at their Debt.

If you are arguing that only white (and I assume Asian, considering the thinking) can do well on the SAT, that's straight up racist. Black and Hispanic students do worse ON AVERAGE because of economics and culture, that's it. Listen to Thomas Sowell compare 50s Harlem to 2000s Harlem (before it was gentrified) and you'll understand how black America was culturally poisoned, it was a tactic to keep people down after the Civil Rights movement.

@@wellacoyoteishere185bruh, not everyone cares about your skin color

History and poli sci majors are typically heading into Law or politics, I’m sure that you already know this, but many colleges offer majors for all students regardless of employability. The truth is that college is a massive heavily government subsidized business. Thus many schools find themselves beholden to the whims of the governmental elites who sit of fund steering committees.

@@brucesteiner7595 You seem familiar with the process tell us more and saving this

Have you ever consider emigrating?

With what your describing you can pretty easily do some educator training and get a job teaching. It’s pretty much your own fault your doing what your doing now. I did the same thing you did and already have a job lined up for me in Albany.

Ey, you made that video about Syria! I loved it!

You would have had to pay for a cap and gown anyway (adding salt to a wound).

@@saininj Add in the frame for your degree. my college didn't even give me a flimsy frame for the damn thing lol

Some people do. Others enjoy a fun time

Some do but some don’t

Colleges had different purposes at some point. My history knowledge sucks as s, tho.

@@John_Smith_86 Both end up with a bunch of debt, only one deserves to be in debt.

Education shouldn’t be and should never have become the gatekeeper to a livable wage

yup I wish I had done this too. It's so much more prudent to realize "OMG no one actually knows what they are doing (unless they are the select few that do)" and make your own decision and not be funneled into a university rat race like cattle. It's crazy how ESSENTIAL it felt during my time in highschool, even to the point where I saw community college as some loser alternative. I was young and naive and I thought a good uni would solve everything, but it was never about the organization. It's always been about the people, and how driven someone can be. Now that I'm 2 years past my graduation from UCSD with no opportunities of employment at this moment, I regret how I spent my time worrying about the wrong things in life at this crucial point. I don't think I'm so boned to the point of financial failure, but damn. I would've loved to spend all that youth in a more fruitful way. Maybe this is just a canon event for middle class white-collar kids who grew up in bliss

@@trtl9106 If you don't mind me asking, what was your major?

@@adamoliver4094they said engineering but didn’t specify what type of

i probably need to go to college for aero space nuclear engineering but other than that dream i got nothing else maybe earning capital for that dream as a buissness man but thats also college resume related and qualification is needed as well because if you dont have captial you cant develope and create nuclear aero space tech or just aero space nuclear tech money funds research and development and innovation and hiringi and so fourth but you also need knowledge of the feild so nuclear aerospace tech and buissness to fund it or even innovate on it 2 reason why i even want to go to college but i have failed my first year so i have a lonnnng road ahead of me elon musk already exsists and hes already doing inter space travel so if he exists why not him i can just sit back and waste away my life happpily somewhere else less meaningfully and purposefully

I graduated from Stanford a couple of years ago (I’m making good money and not regretting my decision to go at all), and told my partner’s younger brother (who’s relatively smart but doesn’t like STEM at all, and is more into things like history and working with his hands) that he should probably take a good blue collar job, and maybe after that go to college on the side as a hobby (because loving history is a hobby, not a job). To my surprise, his dad (who’s an electrical engineer) agreed with me.

and now you have learned the true value add of college...not your degree, not your certification, not your credentials or your grades...but your network. I would love to see a breakdown of identification as an "extrovert" versus an "introvert" and overlay it on the college wage premium graph he showed. People who network well are the ones who truly get the most out of what the undergraduate experience can offer you. I don't think its a coincidence that I suddenly started reaping the benefits of my Ohio State degree from a $$ POV once I had my "late bloom" as an adult and built the social confidence needed to network effectively. In just 7 short years I've gone from an underemployed valet parker to a six-figure career in corporate finance. I feel your pain, friend. You did the hard yards...its not your fault that no one told you what college is REALLY for...

Ironically those “job ready” STEM degrees prepare you least in communication and vital soft skills. If you remain a lonely awkward human, you won’t get in, and if you’re in you won’t rise far. Dismiss those “unrelated” mandatory humanities studies at your peril.

Tough luck. You graduated right in the midst of a mass firing for your industry

Well that's scary. I'm also in software engineering and the job market is pretty rough for new comers.

Did you do any internships while in school? 25 years ago when I was in college that's what most of us did. Summer jobs related to your field of study. Some people took five years to complete their degree but worked full time for two semesters. Usually afterwards you have a more-or-less guaranteed job lined up. I'm curious if this kinda thing is not so common any more. I used to be involved in hiring in an engineering job. Somebody with a degree but zero work experience did not rate highly to me.

Go to the Air Force, my friend. Job market gets worse from here. If it can be done through a computer, best believe the company is offshoring that job overseas.

They said they’re not American

It's not a waste. They're training you to value paper, but I need you to know friend being a tradesmen with 6 years of college would be a huge benefit. Just knowing both worlds makes you a great person to have around. Failure is giving up to apathy. Trades are equal and in many cases more important than office jobs, so doing well in them is literally success.

I just started working at Geek Squad at 20 and worked my way up through various tech support jobs and now I'm a web developer making 84k a year without school debt and without ever having gone to college. Just learned myself. When i was making 11 bucks an hour I was also renting an apartment with my best friend for 875 a year and surviving on 60 bucks of food for 2 weeks. Start low and work your way up.

Do it! I graduated in 2010 with a double major in International Trade and German. I was pretty unsatisfied with the field, as well as the lack of opportunity in it. I worked a few odd jobs after quitting, and ended up in a paid Boilermaking apprenticeship. I now have my journeyman card, and make 6 figures. I also have a generous benefits package. It can be dirty work, but the peace of mind from having a stable, well-paying, career is worth the effort.

Which country are you in?

Business degree here. My life has been destroyed. I am trying to do vocational training

Have you tried the utility industry? There are not enough engineers to support the utility industry. You have to do all you can to get a decent paying job. Relocate, change companies, and sometimes take a lower paying non-degree job to get your foot in the door. I did all the above and 15 years later I am an Engineering Manager with almost making $200k/yr with a pension, 457/401k, great benefits and working only 36 hours a week with 4 weeks vacation a year. Oh and sick time also which unused adds to my retirement calculation.

It doesn’t require a lot of intelligence to understand that a degree in French poetry won’t turn into a profession. I took a few programming courses at the local community college. That was an extremely wise decision.

@@Zulonix - Same here! I started with Access, then Java, then VB--failed them all--but was determined to learn it. I read the book myself, page by page, until I understood, even re-reading some pages 6-7 times over. It was a long haul but I've never owed college debt. Never got a degree, either. Everybody who works under me has a masters, I still have none.

Amazing video, and thank you for your great content!! All we need is the right advice on how to invest in crypto and we will be set for life, I've made huge figures from trading regardless of the market conditions

Same here, with my current crypto portfolio made from my investments with my personal financial advisor

I'm surprised that this name is being mentioned here, I stumbled upon one of her clients testimony on CNBC news last week.

Yeah!!! I started with Maria Bravo in 2021 and now my life is good, something to write home about!!!! I thank God the most He alone made it possible for the opportunity to come my way 🤲🏻🤲🏻🤲🏻🤲🏻

I will leave her info below this comment, but you can gooogle more about her

What do you do exactly?

Extremely true, I don't think poly would admit this though

@@ragul3204I'm a network engineer and system administrator.

Honestly yeah you convinced me. I hate being in a field that's medically important (who doesn't like relaxation for stress relief and boosts in circulation and muscle tension relief) but ... Girl it's so obvious wives started this career. Stuck like my last career of CNA in 40 year old wages and sure I found a good spot but what on earth is the "CEO" position of this. I will always be poor now and tbh I wonder how much massage therapists make in Mexico 👀

The government subsidising private universities through student loans for useless degrees doesn’t help either.

He's right

And the majority of collage student is woman and young girls so we know the result already

It is, they are selling you a dream. You just don't realize it until it's too late.

Your father was a smart man. I hope you were a smart child. Teach your children well.

I don't quite understand the last half of your sentence "college way US roles"? Anyway, I graduated from a university in 1998 and at that point it still wasn't a poor decision, generally speaking.

Then just don't tell them you have a masters....

@@Gamebuster exactly just tell them what is relevant to their job posting

​@@Gamebuster"sorry you're under qualified, and what's this work gap after high school?"

what country are you employed in, currently?

Now i actually agree with you, as you didn’t get a pointless degree, however, i do believe (tons of friends who only have certs have senior level positions) need to focus on what certs if applicable can benefit you vs getting a degree

​@chinggie2 you already know the answer to that question stop data fishing

What STEM field did you get your degree in?

Engineering masters, ten years ago. 70k with no hands on experience. Rent, 690 dollars for a 700 sq ft one bedroom

The reality is they don't want these trainees to advance they want them for temporary cheap labor.

Started as a helper for Glazier making 14 an hour in California during the pandemic, 2 years later was making a whopping 18 ( McDonalds was hiring for 20). Dislocated my back, a piece of glass broke on me and needed 13 stitches, and I got a hernia. The leads were capped at 60k a year, and they had to threaten to quit en mass to get a matching 401k. Unless you're the contractor or do a very specialized niche job/ in a union. Construction will use and abuse you for pennies of the worth you bring in. Liked the job though, just hated the pay.

I was making $75k/year as an electrical apprentice in the early 00's. School was paid for. It's not as bad as you say.

@@dannydaw59 That is well and good, however your experience here is the exception not the rule. As of 2022, the median salary of an apprentice electrician is between $41 000 to $45 000.

The term "apprentice" is also often misused I see job ads using the term that want five years experience.