How Did Belarus & Ukraine Join the United Nations in 1945? | Why the Soviet Union had 3 UN seats!

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Belarus and Ukraine are listed as founder members of the United Nations, in 1945. However, they didn't formally become independent countries until 1991. In this video, I explore this strange anomaly in UN history - an anomaly that meant that the Soviet Union in fact had three seats at the United Nations.
Welcome to Independent Thinking. A channel dedicated to international relations, independence disputes, secession and the origins of countries.
The membership of the Ukrainian and Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republics in the United Nations was one of the stranger aspects of Cold War history. Although UN membership is technically only open to states, the two republics were nevertheless admitted as founder members at the San Francisco Conference in 1945. The video examines how this happened. It shows that their odd position wasn't actually wholly unique. There were in fact two other founder members that weren't independent countries at the time. I also look at what their membership meant in real terms across a number of UN bodies, such as the General Assembly, the Security Council and other associated UN institutions. Finally, I show how their membership continued and was transformed as the Soviet Union broke apart in 1991 and they gained their independence.
I hope you found this video useful. If you did, please do press the 'Like' button. And don't forget to subscribe and press the notification bell if you would like to be alerted to my future videos. Also, if you have any suggestions for topics that you would like to see me cover, please leave a comment below. Thank you.
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FURTHER READING & USEFUL SOURCES
The Foreign Relations of the Ukrainian SSR www.jstor.org/stable/41035959...
Admission to the United Nations amzn.to/3bQ12Ik
State Succession and Membership in International Organizations amzn.to/2UHqQk5
Secession and State Creation: What Everyone Needs to Know amzn.to/2MPY3W2 [PRE-ORDER]
The Creation of States in International Law amzn.to/2Fc5ouO
Satow's Diplomatic Practice amzn.to/2sF1Kak
Recognition in International Relations amzn.to/2SJJmaY
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MY BOOKS
Secession and State Creation: What Everyone Needs to Know amzn.to/2MPY3W2 [PRE-ORDER]
The Cyprus Problem: What Everyone Needs to Know amzn.to/2FaaBU2
Kosovo: The Path to Contested Statehood in the Balkans amzn.to/35jiBN2
The Foreign Policy of Counter-Secession amzn.to/2Qinm5t
My other books amzn.to/2MlP13u
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MY PROFILES & SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS
Twitter / jameskerlindsay
LinkedIn / james-ker-lindsay-b31b...
Academia.edu lse.academia.edu/JamesKerLindsay
Research Gate www.researchgate.net/profile/...
=======================================
EQUIPMENT& TOOL USED TO MAKE THIS VIDEO
Camera: Canon M50 amzn.to/35Hqc9y
Microphone: Boya BY-M1 amzn.to/2VNO7Q4
Key Light: StudioPRO 1050W Softbox amzn.to/2okZAKW
Fill Light: Viltrox L116T amzn.to/2Mia86y
Teleprompter: Parrot 2 amzn.to/2VLcRsm
Tripod: Geekoto 79" Carbon Fibre amzn.to/2wWMNT1
Channel Analytics: TubeBuddy www.tubebuddy.com/JKL
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KEYWORDS
#Ukraine #Belarus #UnitedNations
#InternationalPolitics #InternationalRelations #InternationalHistory
#Secession #Statehood #Independence
#InternationalLaw #SovietUnion #USSR #UN
DISCLAIMER: Some of the links above are affiliate links. These pay a small commission if you make a purchase. This helps to support the channel and will be at no additional cost to you.

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22 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 57

@JamesKerLindsay 4 года назад

Thanks for watching. I recently watched a video on Belarus and it reminded me about this fascinating case of Cold War politics. There was actually a lovely story that I discovered while working on this of the time, in 1947, when the British Ambassador to Moscow suggested that, as Ukraine was a member of the UN, it may be interested in exchanging representatives. The Soviet Foreign Minister, Vyacheslav Molotov, was not amused at what was clearly some high grade British trolling. He curtly told the Ambassador that 'Kiev was not interested in expanding its diplomatic contacts.' (Motyl, Foreign Relations of the Ukrainian SSR', p.71) I hope you found the video interesting. If so, do consider subscribing. I post new videos on Fridays. Thanks.

@ArthurBrooklyn 2 года назад

Can you post or reference a useful link to US/UK actual official argumentation of why Ukraine and Belarussia should not be admitted as members.

@guillaumeroy7528 Год назад

This is a topic that is very mysterious even to students of political science (at least those outside of the former USSR). The notion that non-sovereign jurisdictions can be full members of the UN seems so unbelievable today.

@Carl-Gauss 4 года назад

Great video! Keep your excellent work! Here is an interesting fact. Map at 2:17 has 15 republics (it’s a post 1956 map), but in 1940-1956 there were actually 16 of them. After the Winter war the Karelo-Finnish Soviet republic was created from parts of Finland occupied during the war and part of Russian Soviet republic. This Karelo-Finnish republic was probably created to smoother incorporate Finland into the Soviet Union if such event would occur (similar mechanism was implemented in case of Moldova). After the final improvement of relations between USSR and Finland in 1956 Karelo-Finnish merged with the Russian one which is the only case of two Soviet republics merging.

@JamesKerLindsay 4 года назад

Thanks so much, Carl. What a brilliant point! You're absolutely right. The USSR ended up with 15 republics: Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan. And yet Stalin asked for the '16 republics' to join!

@davelind4141 5 месяцев назад

It may be more accurate to state that the USSR ended up with 12 republics, as the Baltic countries seceded before the formal dissolution of the Soviet Union. Additionally, it's worth noting that Russia did not declare its independence in late December 1991, as suggested in the video (7:54)@@JamesKerLindsay

@Timurv1234 2 года назад

I am so happy I discovered this channel. After I watch a video, I literally feel smarter. Not just info, but also an amazing way of connecting information into a great piece. Thank you! :)

@JamesKerLindsay 2 года назад

Thank you so much! Really appreciated. And I’m obviously delighted you found the channel. This was one of the more obscure topics I’ve covered, but fascinating to see how the USSR got three seats and his they used them - and the obvious effects it had when Ukraine and Belarus declared independence and found themselves already in the UN!

@ephraimbrener9143 2 года назад

Love it. Didn't know India and the Philippines weren't independent upon joining the UN.

@JamesKerLindsay 2 года назад

Thanks so much. Yes, one of those little known quirks of international relations.

@nefnandi1239 3 года назад

Great video, thank you! Wanted to suggest you a few topics: North Macedonia's Ohrid Agreement, the Tlatelolco treaty, and Paraguay post the Paraguay War.

@nefnandi1239 3 года назад

Also the decolonization of the Guianas, the territorial dispute between Venezuela and Suriname and the existence of French Guiana

@user-sj7tj5dl3d 4 года назад

Interesting channel!

@JamesKerLindsay 4 года назад

Thank you very much. I appreciate it a lot. Do let me know if there are any other subjects you would like to see me cover.

@Larkinchance 22 дня назад

Thank you. You've answered some long standing questions I had about Ukraine and Belarus's membership in the UN. You have stated that it was a political decision. I agree but this suggests a behind the scenes accommodation to secure a vote or to head off a veto in some unrelated issue. What do you think? One other issue. The geographic definition of Ukraine was drawn by the Soviet Union to include Russians and other minorities and of course Khrushchev's gift of Crimea to Ukraine in the early 50's. I felt that this was an effort to water-down any Ukrainian independence faction in whatever legislative body the USSR had at the time. This turned out to be a double edged sword in 1991 when Ukraine gained independence... Initially, Ukraine had the potential to be one of the great states of Europe.

@nathanviebranz9111 4 года назад

Nice explanation. Do you think if the Transcaucasian SFSR was not split up, they would have also been granted a seat at the UN since it a founding republic of the USSR? I suppose that’s another topic to consider.

@JamesKerLindsay 4 года назад

Very good question! It is really hard to say. My sense is that it wouldn’t have secured an extra seat. But it definitely falls into the realm of fascinating counterfactuals. And Transcaucasia really is worth a video. Thanks for the great suggestion.

@Sieva. 4 года назад

Nice video :) Off-topic. You pronounce Belarus as /bɛləˈrʌs/ (not /bɛləˈruːs/) and I'm quite curious, is that how you say it in British English?

@JamesKerLindsay 4 года назад

Thanks a lot! Yes, that is the standard pronunciation of Belarus - at least it is in my form of British English. :-)

@adamgaron7409 4 года назад

No, I am British and Belarusian citizen, bɛləˈruːs is correct in British English, I have never heard the other pronunciation before this video

@adamgaron7409 4 года назад

But great content nonetheless

@struanhamiltonbooks 3 года назад

Nice to see you do your research and spoke of the then 16 republics in 1945. Would have been easy to have made a mistake. Excellent style, pace and comment. Keep up the good work. I live in Minsk currently and spoke to locals about this membership of the UN which they are still proud of. One professor here said it was a piece of sheer impudence on Stalin's part. But clever anyway.

@JamesKerLindsay 3 года назад

Thanks so much! Yes, it is a great story. Although this is one if my least viewed videos, it’s also one of my personal favourites. I’d always wondered why Belarus and Ukraine had managed to join in 1945. And the Karelo-Finnish SSR is fascinating historical footnote, isn’t it!? But how are things over in Minsk at the moment? (By the way, I don’t know if you saw it, but I also did a video on the Union State. Another interesting story.)

@Kitties_are_pretty 3 года назад

@@JamesKerLindsay I can't believe this video has so few views. It's certainly among your best. RU-vid is as unfair as international politics, it seems.

@sandraleiva1633 Год назад

Very imprudent. It led them to believe they aren't Russian and have an excuse to separate from Russia in 1991 after 1000 years of being united. 1000 versus 31 years isn't worth going to war for.

@PavlovichDV Год назад

@@sandraleiva1633 Russia as an empire is only 300 years old. What ancient history are we talking about? Before that, Muscowia was part of the Golden Horde.

@PavlovichDV Год назад

@@sandraleiva1633 What is "Russians"? Where are their original ancient territories? Why Muscovy captures not only land, but also usurps someone else's history? Historical sense, Russians never existed, they were invented by Emperor Peter. The lands in the vicinity of Moscow were inhabited by peoples belonging to the Finno-Ugric peoples, they had nothing to do with the Slavs. What 1000 years of unity are we talking about??? Why do Russians not know history? Why do they brazenly impose lies?

@readisgooddewaterkant7890 4 года назад

I am a simple person I see James let Lindsay vid I click like and watch two times.

@JamesKerLindsay 4 года назад

Thanks. Always appreciated! :-)

@Terrus_38 4 года назад

Indeed cool topic ;)

@JamesKerLindsay 4 года назад

Thanks! I hope all is well at your end.

@comedunken6156 4 года назад

Interesting channel! However, I would love to see more visual content here. Perhaps some animations? Keep going

@JamesKerLindsay 4 года назад

Thanks. I have been trying to add more visual elements as a few people have raised this. This is not always easy as putting the videos together is rather time consuming as it is as a lot of research goes into them. I try to make sure that each video adds a little something to the broad topic of the channel and I aim to focus on analysis, rather than just repeating history. Hopefully, this shows. But thanks so much for the kind words of encouragement. It is always really appreciated!

@darkoratic2339 3 года назад

I was wondering recently, since the Byelorussian SSR and Ukrainian SSR joined the UN seperate from the USSR, how much would have it altered history if instant of the USSR as whole the RSFSR would have joined the UN and got the permanent UN Seat with its Veto powers? after all the central state of the USSR would be de facto still in charge and not the RSFSR goverment until 1990/1991

@EdMcF1 2 года назад

More diplomats means more spies to work amongst them, and more votes. Just imagine if the UK tagged along with Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland having seats and the fun that would play out today.

@JamesKerLindsay 2 года назад

Thanks. The extra votes were indeed useful, though I suspect of little decisive value. As for the extra spies and diplomats, the missions were apparently essentially unstaffed. Effectively mere brass plate operations.

@Stamboul 2 года назад

Question unrelated to this, but in the same ballpark: What is your opinion on the legitimacy of transferring the Soviet seat at the UN to Russia following the dissolution of the Soviet Union? In light of the 1992 General Assembly resolution that effectively abolished the Yugoslav seat and denied the claim by Serbia-Montenegro to have inherited it, and considering the fact that Serbia and Montenegro had not seceded from Yugoslavia yet Russia seceded from the Soviet Union, can the argument be made that the Russian Federation was a legal successor to the seat of the USSR, while also maintaining that the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was not the legal successor to the SFRY? Yes, I know, no country has raised any objections to this succession de facto. I'm curious about its de jure standing. (Of course, the question can also be asked in reverse: Was it legitimate to reject Serbia-Montenegro as a successor to Yugoslavia while accepting Russia as a successor to the Soviet Union?) As you may have guessed from my formulation, I find this doubtful. But there may very well be aspects to this issue that I've missed, so my doubts don't rise to the level of an opinion that I'd confidently stand by. They don't rise to the level of a hill that I'd be willing to die on, in other words. So I would like to know what you think.

@EdMcF1 2 года назад

Nowadays, the example of Taiwan, kicked out and replaced by Red China is a relevant example.

@zealandia5668 2 года назад

The Cook Islands 🇨🇰 and Niue 🇳🇺 should have their own seats in the UN too.

@yogikarl 2 года назад

Could you please make 1 assessment of the Limited German sovereignty , crippled by the : bundeskanzlervertrag

@tub0ne Год назад

I do think your view is very precise about what happened back then. However, I think we have more reasons on why the Soviet Union played this card of the three seats. I don’t buy 100% the three seats argument. Certantantily, it played a big role. But I think we also have to put in prospective the particular time, following WWII, and the Stalin-era. Stalin had this great russocentric approach, and of course if you define Russia as the leader of the “soviet countries” you recognizes the other republics as well. Later that would changed, with destastalinzation and a more focus on the soviet unit as whole as a “true identity”. But it wasn’t the case after the end of WW II.

@theconqueringram5295 4 года назад

This is an interesting little curiosity in the history of the UN.

@JamesKerLindsay 4 года назад

Thanks. It is indeed a rather curious bit of history.

@stepanovtakiov9311 3 года назад

Wow! One of the only videos I agree 100 percent with from you about our country? I am impressed! Just make sure to include ALL the facts James like this video, rather than "unintentionally" miss out key facts such as how the Soviet Leadership was Ukrainian which is why they handed Crimea unfairly over to Ukraine back in the 1950s.

@marandymbamara9099 3 года назад

Khruschev was actually born in Russia in a small town close to the Ukrainian border but his parents moved to Ukraine when he was still a child. Thus, he grew up there and saw himself as more Ukrainian than Russian. What baffles me is how the Western countries brazenly demand that Russia return Crimea to Ukraine and that it is Ukrainian. Russia finally obtained Crimea in 1783 after a very long battle with the Ottoman empire during Catherine the great era. America was formed in 1778 that is 6 years before Crimea became Russian yet all these historical facts totally mean nothing to the western irredentists and Ukrainian revanchists. As far as am concerned Crimea is Russian, whoever doesn't agree can go cry a river. Thank God that the constitutional referendum made it illegal for anyone to again handout a Russian territory. Medvedev was the last to handover Russian territory when he gave huge maritime boundary sections on the Barents sea to Norway under Stoltenberg; the same Stoltenberg who has been virulently Russophobic. Russia really got alot of traitors. Same thing Bolsheviks did in handing over Novorossiya - Kherson, Odessa, Nikolayevsk, Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv, Donetsk and Lugansk. Such individuals hate Russia and view it as a huge cake from which everyone can take, take and take. They forget that he who always gives is never appreciated.

@stepanovtakiov9311 3 года назад

@@marandymbamara9099 True. But I still see him as Ukranian. When I was in the UK I was shocked to find out that the UK pm guy Johnson is actually an American.

@user-cx9nc4pj8w 2 года назад

You're leaving out the key fact that Crimea has a land border with Ukraine and not with Russia, so it makes sense from an administrative point of view to give it to the Ukrainian SSR. Regardless if Russia wanted Crimea they should have negotiated it with Ukraine during the breakup of the Soviet Union, instead of illegally annexing it. Or they could have just worked to have good relations with their neighbours, but when your leader want's to take Russia back to the supposed glory days of the 1800's I see why that might be difficult.

@GeographyWorld 4 года назад

Interesting video! Countries that weren't independent were in the UN when Ireland wasn't. The USSR blocked us due to being neutral in the war.

@JamesKerLindsay 4 года назад

Thanks. So true. Interestingly, this was part of the reason Argentina was only invited late in the day to attend the San Francisco Conference. It had held out declaring war until the last few months and the USSR felt that it had no right to be there. It is now largely forgotten that the UN was deliberately designed to be based around the countries that had actively fought against Nazi Germany and Japan.

@jlai3861 3 года назад

Isn't British did same as India the then British colony joined UN in 1945?

@JamesKerLindsay 3 года назад

Thanks. Yes. Indeed. You are right. The difference with India (and the Philippines) was that it was in its way towards independence. These two were just two extra votes for the USSR.

@samuelbcn 3 года назад

Really great videos but please don't retrospectively change counries' names. Until the end of the USSR the English names of the republics were 'The Ukraine' and 'Byelorrussia'. The other day you mentioned a pre 1972 Sri Lanka. This is ahistorical.

@JamesKerLindsay 3 года назад

Thanks for the comment. This is always a tricky issue. I try to make sure I use the right name at the appropriate moment, but there does need to be flexibility depending on the context. If I say India became independent along with Pakistan and Sri Lanka, that is not incorrect. Sri Lanka - as it is known today - did become independent along with India and Pakistan. I know it was called Ceylon, but suddenly dropping that in could confuse matters for many viewers who might not be aware of the history. So, I wouldn’t say that it is retrospectively changing the makes of countries. Nor is it ahistorical. It is using the name of countries in a way that helps people understand the situation most effectively. But it is an interesting point, and well taken.

@stefanmatloch6133 Год назад

One of the couple of conditions to be fulfilled by nation in applying for UN membership is respected border by neigubours. In the case of Ukraine, the border between Ukraihne, and Russia is not even traced. By the way, Ukraine as a nation never existed. The name Ukraine appeared in 1918 when Galicia was lost by Habsburgs Austria in result of Versail treaty after World War 1. The mixed Poles, Slovaks Hungarien and Romanian living in this region where tyranized by communist nacionalists and in result they formed Ukrainian Soviet Republic with mixed linguage mostly Russian and cyrylica russian alfabet. This is as shor as possible story of this fals country that never existed and was created to destroying Soviet Union. Putin is trying to reverse it.