How DNA Makes Us Who We Are with Robert Plomin

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Today it’s a great honor to have Dr. Robert Plomin on the podcast. Dr. Plomin is Professor of Behavioural Genetics at the Institute of Psychiatry, Psychology, and Neuroscience at King’s College London. He previously held positions at the University of Colorado Boulder and Pennsylvania State University. He was elected a Fellow of the Academy of Medical Sciences and of the British Academy for his twin studies and his groundbreaking work in behavioral genetics. He is the author or coauthor of many books, including G is for Genes: The Impact of Genetics on Education and Achievement (with Kathryn Asbury), and most recently, BluePrint: How DNA Makes Us Who We Are.
In this wide-ranging conversation, we discuss the following topics:
How Robert became interested in genetics
The importance of going “with the grain” of your nature
Robert’s twin studies methodology
How genotypes become phenotypes
How kids select their environments in ways that correlate with their genetic inclinations
The genetic influence on television viewing
How virtually everything is moderately heritable
The effects of extreme trauma on the brain
The developmental trajectory of heritability
How the abnormal is normal
How we could use polygenic information to inform educational interventions
The potential for misuse of genetic information to select children for particular educational tracks
Recent research on shared environmental influences on educational achievement
The “nature of nurture”
The variability of heritability across different cultures and levels of SES
The role of education on intelligence
How teachers can and cannot make a difference
The genetics of social class mobility
Free will and how we can change our destiny
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27 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 80

@MiPo3333 5 месяцев назад

A fantastic interview and Scott did a great job in raising questions about the role of education e.g. or drawing out the statement on how trauma impacts development. I'd love to see a second round discussing any new findings from the twin study mentioned at the end.

@bennguyen1313 5 лет назад

Would love to hear a debate on Behavioral Genetics with Robert Plomin and Robert Sapolsky. Sapolsky suggests attributes thought to be genetic in origin, are often environmental when looked at more closely.

@whitepillalliance4166 5 лет назад

I realy hope that also

@bennguyen1313 5 лет назад

@@whitepillalliance4166 The closest I've heard to an exchange, is on the first segment of the recent episode of the Innovation Hub podcast ("Tapping into Twins Studies") . Around the 18m mark, Nancy Segal listens to a clip from Robert Saplosky and offers her rebuttal which I think Robert Plomin would agree with!

@Bellantoni 5 лет назад

People have been saying that for ages and have been consistently debunked. Does Sapolsky have anything new?

@benjaminroberts6875 5 лет назад

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-cgqusogWPg8.html

@paddleed6176 3 года назад

@Mike Kane The problem is that the insistence on bringing up the same refuted points about environment COME from a political standpoint. People are horrified that we are largely genetic in behavior.

@scottwilkins886 3 года назад

Thank you Dr. Kaufman for your article on Robert Plomin. I am reading his book right now and your statement about disliking ad hominem critics was very refreshing. I read that other critic that you just mentioned before yours (the one you just mentioned in the podcast) and it was wow. It was very much devoid of substance. Yours was much much much better. Thank you for your effort. It would be interesting to have Plomin back on to go through your article and discuss with you your points. That would be an interesting structure to a conversation. Thank you for your good work!

@paddleed6176 2 года назад

"disliking ad hominem critics was very refreshing" Yet his own article was constantly implying eugenics. That IS ad hominem.

@JurijFedorov 4 года назад

A shame the sound quality is so bad. I love Plomin.

@lolajiang4946 5 лет назад

I love the interview and enjoyed it a lot. Could you add timestamps to each topic for easy diving in and out? Thanks a lot

@BruceAttah 5 лет назад

Excellent discussion. Was expecting a fairly standard interview, but is wide-ranging, goes quite deep into topics and issues, and even becomes something of a debate at some points. If one of the participants had been a journalist (as is usually the case), rather than both being psychology professors, a well-informed debate would have been impossible.

@cantavoidtrite 3 года назад

We need more of these debates.

@ragnarbluechip8795 5 лет назад

Enjoyed this one, as Robert Plomin is an absolute badass. I thought the host was being a bit lame at a few stages though. No point in getting butthurt over Plomins findings and opinions

@kavorka8855 3 года назад

what findings?! that the environment turns on and off your genes? you know, politics is not science!

@ragnarbluechip8795 3 года назад

@@kavorka8855 what are you talking about, champ? Plomin summarised the latest findings in his book and they ain't as simple as you put it. And that part about politics should go to the host, as he was crying about it

@paddleed6176 2 года назад

@@kavorka8855 That's not really what epigenetics is, but try again.

@royalbloodedledgend 4 года назад

Yes please, follow up conversation!

@Orionsbelt31 4 года назад

At some point Plomin notes that our schools are doing a pretty good job...NO is the answer to that. There are so many influences taking place on the individual teaching level it's off the charts - see personality or lack of intelligence. As far as I know critical thinking ability is not tested for and the system doesn't foster it yet that ability is probably the truest separator. I loved learning and was even good at it but couldn't stand most of the teachers who were in opinion non critical thinkers. Lot's of intelligent kids who are not being challenged either end up misbehaving or daydreaming which catches the ire of the teachers starting a vicious cycle of more discipline and more of said behavior. You end up with a smart kid hating the institution and even authority. Anyhow...great discussion and glad they noted the somewhat adversarial nature of the conversation ...that makes it real [should be expected].

@user-ex4wx6ll9r 5 лет назад

Thanks for this interesting talk. I had to go away and think about this to try to understand the complex ideas. My understanding of what Dr Plomin is saying is that we have a genetic 'default' setting. So if we had a genetic weakness for alcoholisim, and we happen to live in a culture or family or environment where we can obtain alcohol, then we would probably become an alcoholic. However, the default setting is not deterministic which means that it is not unchangeable. We can change our 'default setting' by taking action e.g. deciding not to drink alcohol. I think some parents would use the knowledge of their kid's genetic 'default' settings in a very constructive way e.g. if they are likely to develop dyslexia, they can get them supportive lessons, or if the kid's genes show a high aptitude for musical ability, they may encourage them to try out more music lessons. However, some parents may use this knowledge in a very destructive way e.g. if they find out that one of their kids has a lower iq than its siblings, they may treat that child differently like not bothering to invest as much in its education compared to its siblings. Also, if this genetic analysis can be done in the womb - it could be used in very constructive ways e.g. predicting serious genetic diseases. But could it also lead some people aborting children simply because they don't have a certain genetic iq level or other non health related characteristic that the parents value? Genetic analysis is a tool and all tools can be used for good or bad. It is great that we are having these conversations about morality and thinking about the potential applications of this new knowledge. Hopefully this will lead to progressing research in a way that maximises good and minimises harm.

@craigsproston7378 2 года назад

Totally agree with you

@susysilvia4037 2 года назад

Thank you

@cantavoidtrite 3 года назад

This was really a great listen. Thank you.

@hhhhhhhh6008 3 года назад

should

@hhhhhhhh6008 3 года назад

should

@hhhhhhhh6008 3 года назад

@craigsproston7378 2 года назад

Whilst I agree regarding the influence of nature and genetics it is only part of the equation as nurture has an important factor too. He says that going to a private school is a waste of money but I disagree. Those children that are academically minded genetically would greatly benefit from private as the comprehensive system in the UK have classes very large and mixed ability. One school I teach at have a mixture of children with behavioural problems and they greatly disturb those children wishing to learn. Smaller class sizes in the private sector provides extra support for the children. In a private school I teach at class sizes are smaller, they teach and promote good behaviour, respect for themselves, the teachers and peers. Those that struggle have extra support. The whole atmosphere is positive. They have far more resources compared to the state sector. I am a musician and many of the very musical pupils I teach have artistic genetic factors but for many of successful musicians their parents had music in the background from birth, music activities thrived at their school, they had choirs, they listened to music by themselves and their peers played an instrument. In the private school they have jazz band, orchestra , wind band choir. In the state schools I teach at, hardly any school has a band or orchestra, many of the pupils learning don't have peers learning so they stop (not all). So to conclude it is not always the case that children will find their own area of expertise left to themselves. Yes, it provides the initial natural hunger but if the environment does not have it or no parental support they will not fulfill their natural desires. I find this particularly in deprived areas where children have negative experiences in life. I think Mr. Plomin should experience the real world and not just data and academia.

@proudatheist2042 2 месяца назад

Well said. Genetics does have a powerful influence on intelligence. You are absolutely correct in that students with behavioral problems disrupt learning for everyone else.

@robbiehenderson9582 27 дней назад

It's just difficult to obtained reliable measures of toddler IQs because their behaviors can be very different day to day. Whereas by the age of about six to eight, measures of IQ become suitably stable to explain and predict academic ability and achievement.

@jessicastrat9376 3 года назад

Awesome

@Med_Tube Год назад

How can one work towards changing oneself along the different dimensions of the Big 5 personality model? What hope does one have in that?

@juniors878 3 года назад

They got a lil confrontational towards the end.....this satisfies both my intellectual needs as well as my basic need for reality-tv-like-drama 🤣

@someonemight 5 лет назад

Very insightful. Deserves to have several orders of magnitude in views.

@ItsameAlex 5 лет назад

29:00 Noooooooooo I wanted to know what he was going to say, but he got sidetracked.

@thomasbyrne3963 5 лет назад

Hi, You said you were looking forward to reading the comments but as a first time listener I'm not sure you mean here! Robert says because of his discoveries about intelligence, he was very much looking forward to the idea of personalised learning, moving away from a direct instruction style. But as he might be aware from his interactions with Toby Young and West London Free School, as well as the huge metastudies on the subject, there is very little evidence for discovery learning and overwhelming evidence for direct instruction. Not sure if this is because it's outside his field, or whether, like he says about his critics, he's engaging in wishful thinking...

@lukelea1 5 лет назад

A maddening discussion in some respects. For instance, no discussion of the need to construct a society that makes full use of the human material that actually exists, and in which every individual, regardless of native endowment, can reasonably expect to lead a rich and fulfilling life if he (or she) works hard and plays by the rules. (See here for example: goo.gl/8cWYCW ) Not enough attention to the need for appropriate education for given endowments as opposed to interventions to raise academic achievement levels. Of course there were a lot of good things too. I liked the idea of a universal university not tailored to the needs of particular segment of cognitive aptitude. Let the students and their parents decide what are the appropriate courses to take. In fact the same rule could be applied at the high school level: large central high schools with a cafeteria style of course offerings, including a lot of vocational choices and only minimal academic requirements beyond rudimentary reading and arithmetic (though I would think the civic education and basic history should be a universal requirement, especially the origin and value of liberal institutions).

@michaels4255 3 года назад

Luke Lea, Your concerns would be better addressed not by a psychologist but by a sociologist, political scientist, an economist, or maybe even a philosopher.

@cat3584 2 года назад

@@michaels4255 psychologists should branch into many other areas, psychology is inherently connected with many other spaces

@turidtelefonbeskjed7247 4 года назад

Thanks for an interesting converstion.Just one negative thing .RU-vid is also a place for people that do not have English as their first language.When you read up from written material,it was very hard to follow because you tried to speak as fast as possible. Why ? you forgot us the ones that listen to your podcast.

@lcm6675 5 месяцев назад

I do believe genetics is very important. However I find it hard to believe that school/teacher etc matter as little as Robert Plomin says based on his research on GCSE results. My children go to a moderately selective school, so I’d say the average intelligence is higher but not massively higher than the national average (perhaps 10-15 IQ points if I really have to quantify it), but the school consistently achieves around 70% A*, 95% A-B. This is way ahead of national average and I witnessed first-hand how the school pushed/supported the children. I went to a very selective school myself. Because of the intake, the school was teaching at a very challenging level and the peer pressure ensured that the only option is to excel. I can categorically say that there is no way I could have achieved nearly the same exam results had I gone to a non selective school. I am curious to see more details of his research on GCSE.

@proudatheist2042 2 месяца назад

According to intelligence researcher Dr. Haier, 65% of school achievement can be attributed to students' intelligence, or their IQ scores. He states that teachers account for 10% of the variance with school achievement. Your theory about the average IQ scores of the children at your child's school is significant. Schools who can pick and choose between the brightest, best behaved students are far more likely to ace all objective metrics of school achievement than schools that just do what they can with students with average or below average intelligence and behavioral problems.

@proudatheist2042 2 месяца назад

As a former special education/reading remediation teacher, I can tell you that teachers bring the full potential of whatever genetic inheritance students have. I can tell you that even the best teachers cannot make a child with a below average intelligence learn and retain material as well as children with above average intelligence.

@juliettailor1616 4 года назад

Yeah can't possibly discuss the genetic influence because that could lead to things like testing for talents and career path, society realizing that there is a lot of justification and desperate need for well trained people in the services and manufacturing fields (and a return to a manufacturing economy) instead of churning out a massive percentage of totally useless degrees which serves only the lucrative higher "education" industry. No, can't have any of that because then you would have a functional society instead of the breakdown we are living in.

@timbookatuncommonsense8778 5 лет назад

Ive been thinking thinking,thought, thought, and, I've thought to the detriment of my viewing of this video. And if I may,forgive me if I'm repeating myself but here is where I've arrived at. The physicality of gene's, are a human. However to arrive at a human being, an intelligence of gene's,more important a single gene and it's ability to work with another single gene , then multiplied by several billion other gene's to the power of 50, to create maybe a sea anemone, I'm not sure of the math, can however I'm quite sure of the enormous numbers involved in the creation of intelligence/S. So with that I think the intelligence was the first needed to even think about creating a plant,animal, a tool using animal an ape, able to project future outcomes,with our actions. So rewind the clock to when gene's,accidentlymade certain compounds that made elements that were beneficial as building blocks and could be,made forever and ever complex,that made bigger and bigger complexes that even though more maintenance needed. The intelligence was given over to our consciousbrAin

@janetashbrook5614 2 года назад

I was considered as not academic at school but as an adult gained qualifications and a Degree. So how is it possible to be considered as not intelligent enough to ģain academic qualifications at 16 and then do so at 25?

@paddleed6176 2 года назад

Because the subjective evaluations of other people are just that, subjective.

@myroseaccount 4 года назад

This suggests that we should test humans for genetic fitness and then select the fittest and invest in their education and development. The rest can then be filtered into appropriately productive activites based on their genetic suitability. That should be OK right?

@Monaleenian 3 года назад

Does it? You do that if you want buddy. Set up your own charity that invests in what you consider to be the fittest based on your analysis of their genes. There might even be a viable business there. Go for it bud.

@KIDWITDEGUN 5 лет назад

Joe Rogan sends me

@nyc1234100 5 лет назад

Can you please elaborate?

@taiwanjohn 5 лет назад

@@nyc1234100 - Joe's guest William von Hippel recommended Plomin's work in this recent interview: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7Dtv8ibI1vk.html

@user-xd3fq6dt2k 5 лет назад

my interest sends me, perfectly corroborating Plomin's theory

@jurgenforster8314 5 лет назад

还我河山 no need to get defensive, I was simply being magnanimous 😂😂😂😂

@jurgenforster8314 5 лет назад

还我河山 get some help and stop projecting 😂😂🧐🤔🤔. I will be there if you need a shoulder 😩😘😘

@AnnaMishel 3 года назад

People always new that about plants (mendel), and animals. But they didn’t realize that humans are animals. DU-UH!

@chewyjello1 3 года назад

The reality is if people's genetic information became common knowlege to the powers that be (the educational system, the healthcare system, the government, any number of giant corporations, etc ) it WOULD just be used for sorting...if we are lucky...simply because that's easier than using it in a way that is beneficial to all. If we are not lucky, it would be used in much more sinister ways.

@cat3584 2 года назад

Such as what?

@hughmungous3357 3 года назад

What does the professor say about races in the West who are behind in IQ after multiple generations? Despite the fact that humans are choosing their environments, is it possible that outside forces (racists) perpetuated an environment that stabilized the IQ differences?

@michaels4255 3 года назад

Given that these IQ differences are universal; that the differences to not always favor the group that is most often accused of racism (for example, racists are probably not maintaining an environment that stabilizes the superior IQs of Ashkenazi - and only Ashkenazi, not other - Jews and certain -but not all - Oriental minorities, or the superior athletic performance of African over European descended persons; that IQ differences exist among indigenous Europeans who happen to live in different regions of Europe; or that a very homogeneous country such as Japan has an IQ gradient that declines as you travel from the northern end to the southern end of their archipelago; given these and other facts, it is unlikely that group differences in intelligence are being maintained by all powerful racists who are secretly manipulating the environment.

@Monaleenian 3 года назад

@@michaels4255 So you're saying there's a chance?!

@proudatheist2042 Месяц назад

How can any group who is racist over another exert influence over all people of a certain race on the planet? Consider this, there was a brutal history of discrimination against Asians in America. Yet today, Americans of east Asian descent are doing far better financially and on other metrics than whites and blacks. Why is that?

@juliettailor1616 4 года назад

Too bad Plomin didn't point out that the interviewer's being put in special education because of an anxiety disorder and hearing problems did not disprove his research but instead showed that there was a colossal failure in a school system which put such a child in special education. In fact there is probably a correlation between HIGHER intelligence and anxiety, and hearing problems relates only to comprehension, not to innate intelligence.

@proudatheist2042 2 месяца назад

Reading and listening comprehension are two separate skills that are assessed on formal IQ tests. Reading comprehension is a heavily g loaded attribute. Reading comprehension is colossal in regards to life success, career attainment, and educational success. You are incorrect in your assertion that comprehension is not involved in innate intellegence.

@proudatheist2042 2 месяца назад

I am surprised that, given what you said, the school system didn't offer free hearing screenings or that the interviewers parents didn't take him for a private hearing assessment.

@proudatheist2042 2 месяца назад

Former special education teacher here. In all of my field placements, volunteer experiences, and professional teaching experiences, I have never seen a child who was given an IEP because of anxiety issues. However, perhaps his anxiety issues contributed to his academic achievement being well behind what it could have been otherwise. Perhaps the school and his parents thought that being in a classroom with less students would benefit him. Remember, parents can opt to not put their child in special education if that's what they want.

@timbookatuncommonsense8778 5 лет назад

Serious question: What came 1st Nurture,or Nature?, Or Chicken or Egg? Or even, Humans or genes? Intelligence or intelligence?, Which? Intelligence of a Human? Or intelligence to create a human!?? But then,, what created the intelligence to create gene's that had a capacity to build homo-sapiens!? No Creationism,

@ItsameAlex 5 лет назад

Is the interviewer Jewish?

@michaels4255 3 года назад

"Kaufman," possibly. His Wikipedia photo clearly lacks typical north European features, so I doubt he is ethnically Germanic. Wikipedia says: "Most media attention has focused on Kaufman's attempt to redefine intelligence," a common Jewish cultural obsession (for example, Gould, Lewontin, Kamin, Rose, Diamond, Sternberg, all passionate critics of "g").