*Important Credits and Notes Below* Read if you can. CAVEAT 1: After some criticism of his first Pastebin, Dream did send a more direct apology to the mods (web.archive.org/web/20210602082611/pastebin.com/F76HAfy0 ) where he does say "sorry" multiple times. The reason I missed this was due to the fact it was posted on his Discord as opposed to other social medias and therefore didn't receive too much publicity. However, it was discussed on Reddit and I should have seen it there, so I'm sorry for missing that. Although seemingly received better by some parties, this still met mixed responses from speedrunning community (www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/nqiiu7/dream_apologises_to_the_speedrun_community/ ) and I feel I missed out on a chance to discuss that. This doesn't really change my criticism of his first, and more public statement, however, it would have definitely nuanced my thoughts on the matter of his apologies. I'm really disappointed I missed that. CAVEAT 2: in “Intentions” I talk about the criticism Dream received from people who felt he had put off streaming during Pride Month until he was called out for it. Although I still feel the same about the optics of it, I don't want to imply that he didn’t actually raise money. The onus is on me for being ill-judged when using the word “streaming”, because he did stream and raise money through other platforms, just not on his main Twitch, and I should have been more scrupulous when researching/analysing that criticism. The money raised will change lives and I don’t want to understate that. *I FORGOT TO THANK THEM VERBALLY BUT THANK YOU MERRYWEATHER COMICS FOR THE INTRO* : ru-vid.com / ru-vid.com CREDITS BELOW: It seems that RU-vid only currently integrates US registered charities, as my one isn't a US listed I would assume *only British individuals will be able to donate* , however, I will leave a link here in case you are interested: donation.macmillan.org.uk/ . Sorry for the delay between videos, unfortunately there have been some unexpected changes that have taken a while to adjust to, not quite where I'd like to be but we're working on it. Hope you enjoy the video all the same. Cordwit's video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-CACIAQrByJk.html Stand Up Maths' video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8Ko3TdPy0TU.html *EDITING CREDITS HERE CHECK EM OUT* (thank you RU-vid for not allowing me to post them again): docs.google.com/document/d/1Q8s9ifEAiyTYbWqMyZq8g4WskdFd1Pk4m4sf5332kOk/edit?usp=sharing - Special thanks to my Patrons: a vdl, Low60, Mac Maunder, Jade Rose, ColossalKiwi, Ash Black, Darren (Barcrest Plays), Light, Marc, RistrettoEva, WilliamThatch, Adam VIllareal, Ashley Butts, Adam Goetz, Bryan Langley, cloudfruit, Connor, Divinireigns, Miru Kado, Neo, Brandon, Emily Yoder, Megan McCallion, Mikey K, Miru Kado, Neo, Nipple Man, Ristretto Eva, Michael, Shane Reese, Mama Fujo, Yuliya Terekh, Spoonie The Rogue, Natasha Gray, Bruhreallysnapped, Darren Barcrest Plays, Ellie, Nassim J, Spoonie the Rogue, Gravidea, Lena Zhivun, Valerie B, Shelby Schulze, Kie, Austin Clothier, Bob Jazzypoo, Emily Jane Willems, Philip Wesolowski, Neuwwington, MuglyfuglyThug, Nico Mendoza, Sydney Plasky, puking dog, Isabelle Pond, Jacob Matthews, saberfang, Casual User, Ella Elric, Jennifer Stachuska, Maria Diamantoukos, Seth, YarnWitch, York, Paulina Joensen, Julia Fesst, Ammene, Leslie Miller, Ambros, Emma Hinniger, Hillary Dryer, Kathryn M Sorroche, Mirthe, triangulous, darkestweb, Letichia, Sarcastalshisss, SnowFreak, Casey Dickinson, Christian Lincoln, Rinnie, K., Linkin, Logan, Psycho Alchemist, Emily Ward, CaptainBunnincula, Megan Erwin, Jonas Picinich, Ryanna, Mireli, Floral, Margrethe, Maura, Eddie Guthrie, Canadia True Cr*me, David Burton, Apocalyptic Strawberry, Trevin Liberty, Johannes Gustafsson, Christopher Cantin, SnazzyStarlight, Jeremy West, DonFanucci, Cameron Bartlett, Peter Williamson, NebulousBounds, grace, Peter Melling, Amber Wavesatgrain, X, o+o, Ingrid Reyes, Garret, Adam Marven, Mary Alvarado, Aaron Joseph Danh, Stacey Douglass, Graceee Clark, xalyn937, Simon Luechtae, LilyLowe, Zach Poling, Fabi, Derek Reeve, McGhee Orme Johnson, Pretend2Twinkie, Arad Yazdi, Jana Del Rey, Charlotte Purnell, Galvatorix, Joel Syverud, Maria Yvonne Sandoval, Cyan Thorburn, Julio Ochoa, Hirom Sugiyama, JoYKiLL, Mason Davis, ProjectAkau, Himedra 10$+ Patrons: Vampire, Bee, somehulabaloo, Jenn Sulana, Adrian Gibbons, Ayro_Grego, BI0MECHANICAL, Cheyenne, Chris F, Colin Ryan, Doug Nolen, dr_snuff, Elizabeth, Ella Daniels, Fretless108, Hunter R, Marissa Lyn, nimbis, Nini, Poofy, Ryan Holtz, Susan Lewis, Tommy Mayfield, Videosyncratic, KayAechBee, Disorganic, Jaden Burnett, Amelia Kronser, Stevie n Will, SeaCryptid, catears.jpg Special Thanks to My 50 Dollar Patrons: Hypercube, Esther Bedolla Very special thanks to my 100 dollar Patrons: Twitter: twitter.com/TheRightOpinion Discord: discord.gg/SsgNxWU Instagram: instagram.com/the.right.opinion/ References: docs.google.com/document/d/17VREXYyD7NEgVjLtb-JdU35IDyfV8jOqlbugG5CVgCw/edit?usp=sharing
I learned a long time ago to not blindly follow creators. They are people just as susceptible to the same problems that occur in our own lives. Creators are also not perfect. They make mistakes and sometimes say things in the heat of the moment. And sometimes fandom just gets taken too far.
@@simplymarvelousliving TRO is very good at being speculative based on information and being only declarative based on provable facts. I'm curious as to the misinformation, if you care to elaborate?
dream is a person whose fan base and detractors fascinate me more than the man himself. with both sides having such extreme beliefs to the point that they either want to destroy him or that they worship him like the 2nd coming of christ. the fan/detractor culture surrounding him definitely is intriguing
well it isnt that odd if you really think about it: you really are exaggerating here but the fans do like them, some of them. the detractors arent that different from that guy in school who would bully you for playing minecraft or something (or you being the bully idk); the overall nerd-bully culture i think has more to do with the nerd's obsessive behavior rather than the stereotypical smarts. the whole "want to destroy him" is an exaggeration as well, but you can see how it does fit the bully archetype and it makes sense. it is like when people make fun of like fortnite or something, cause they feel superior to the perceived majority, and they feel superior to younger people (in the internet, both are thought about as one, im not sure why, maybe younger people have more interaction maybe it is just that there are more younger folk on the internet than older folk). so it is somewhat nonsensical but it isnt really that strange.
It's so awkward being a moderate fan because I see both ends of the spectrum and going 'Christ can you chill?' to both of them. I like Dream and his content and some of the fan content is extremely freaking good, but I don't make up sexualities revolving around him and pretend I have schizophrenia and claim I see him. I of course understand if people don't like his content. But the reaction that some people have jumped to- 'Dream said his community was great because he won an award?? I want to kill him' is so disgusting. It was so disturbing stumbling on one of those videos because even though it was a meme (Peter Griffin saying 'I just want to talk to him' while wielding a gun) the comments seemed to genuinely believe he was everything wrong with the world. It's the same kind of shit I put up with in other fandoms to be honest, but usually the simultaneous obsessive love and hate is spread out to the fans or to a larger group rather than one person.
@@stjeep It is very much related when you realize the level of those who indulge in stan behavior tend to be prone to having porous ego boundaries and associating their sense of self with the target of their standom. That's why they're so overtly invested and fixated: their celebrity idol is where they're defining self identity. That's why they get so angry and fight so ruthlessly. I've talked to many stans who have informed me of having a formal diagnosis. I think it's just a byproduct of being on the internet.
@@anaalina5964 but saying you tell your fans to stop and they do is incredibly ignorant and honestly delusional. I don't hate dream, I don't think he can control his fanbase into a hIvEmInD (wow shocking). I just think he needs to stop acting like they listen. he just needs to reword things better. instead of "Oh WeLl I sAiD tO StoP SO tHeY dO."
@@anaalina5964 yeah but like a government, you should put up rules and those who don't follow them should be outlawed and banned so that it isn't just in a perpetual state of anarchy that could lead not only the government into an unwanted war, but for the said government itself to crumble and replace with an even worse yet somehow more stable one
I remember Jacksepticeye told people to stop making explicit artwork of him and Markiplier. A really big fanartist who made a name off of that kind of artwork legitimately flipped her lid, sending hate towards him and the fans. She eventually just said the characters were "original" slightly changed their names, despite just being the exact same caricatures she was using previously.
@@GummyDinosaursify are you talking about Cartoonjunkie? I remember they made a lot of that kind of artwork back in 2015-2016 when septiplier was a thing, I don't remember if they did any of the hate towards JSE fans If theres any links to that happening I'd love to see them in all honesty I haven't followed them since 2016.
that’s not what he meant lol. and i’m not a dream stan. he meant if you have 7 followers, the likelihood you will get doxxed is incredibly low, because it’s hard for someone w a small accounts tweets to get seen, aka harder for a crazy stan to notice
@@hello-wl7pk Doxxing is never ok, no matter if you're a small account or not. And Dream has been literally targeting small accounts like that. He's a big name now, he should know better.
@@hello-wl7pk this isn’t actually what he said. he said that if an account with only 7 followers got doxxed, the likelihood of something bad happening (i.e, someone sending a bomb/anthrax in the mail, people appearing at your house, etc.) is extremely small. which is incorrect. the account in particular that got doxxed is a minor who is apart of the LGBT community who lives in a red state, of whom were hiding from their abusive parents. with this information, anyone can email their employer and out them, placing them at considerable risk. people can contact their abusive parents and leak their address. it doesn’t matter if you only have 7 followers, it only takes one completely unhinged person to do this. hope this helped clear things up
Early in my fandom experiences I saw a video from markiplier telling his fans that they have harassed and threatened his girlfriends or potential girlfriends so much he is scared of being close to anyone. He called them out on shipping him with his RU-vidr friends. He told his fans that they need to police themselves and stop each other from hurting people like that and ruining his and others’ relationships. I’m only partway through watching this video but it’s reminding me of that experience of realizing that fan actions can cause chaos and harm to real life people. Dream very well could have talked directly to his fans and told them to knock it off and be nicer, but he failed.
Mark's relationships with fellow RU-vidr Sean (Jacksepticeye) was strained due to the shipping of them. They have started to do vid collabs again but for awhile both kept their seperate ponds. You can tell the shipping effected their friendship for awhile. Dream rose to fame too quickly and aside from his obvious fragile ego, weaponzing his fanbase when he's called out (i.e. the cheating scandal) He really could've handled it better, but he doesn't he just keeps being defensive. I think he needs to take a break from Twitter and reflect.
@@lumibean7494 He was 100% being not the smartest in the speedrun drama, however it's also important to note that he never specifically stated "go hate" and said multiple times in the same situation to not hate, and he's gotten much better and hasn't been in drama for several months now, so you're pulling "he just keeps being defensive" from thin air.
I watch Philza regularly on Twitch, and I think he has a really good perspective on the whole thing. I’m not sure when it was, but I remember him talking on stream about how Dream just doesn’t know how to set boundaries for himself, let alone millions of other people (something that Phil is VERY steadfast about himself). It was sometime last year (I think in the middle of the speedrunning drama), but when he said that it really stuck with me and gave a new perspective on the way Dream reacts to things.
I remember that stream & yeah the boundaries thing is spot on. I think at some point Will said he thinks Dream should hire a social media manager or something along the lines of that. He has like,,, 4 twitter accounts & having all of them public facing/accessible to his viewers is def not good for him
Exactly, because his fanbase are so young and a part of the cancel culture, so if he were to say something like “don’t use me as a basis for your profile” that would mean that he hates his fans
Well like, Dream is or was a speedrunner, speedrunners grind like 10 hours a day and shit, and ya'll expect him to be a God in socializing and just moonwalk over every controversy? Hell nah
@@Nekoszowa There is this one content creator I love. Sometimes she can seem harsh and "mean" towards her fans but this is because of this. She says that her fans are not her fans and should not be treated as such. When people cross those boundaries she set, she'll straight up tell them to fuck off. A lot of content creators now don't really have that attitude (at least the "we're not your friends" kind) which causes these kinds of things to happen.
Or even just make it clear to their fans that they do not condone bullying others on their behalf. Much less depend on it as Dream did, whether for money or ego.
the weird thing is that dream's like- 23 yet people like ranboo (who experienced peak fame at 16-17) managed to set boundaries and handle fame a million times better than dream. when i was in the fandom dream had over 20 different controversies that he handled terribly. ranboo had one. and he immediately apologized for it and owned up to it- and it wasn't even that bad. everyone who was part of that community forgave him for it. it kind of goes to show the different maturity levels going on
Ranboo yes, but also Tommyinnit. He started blowing up at that age too and he got huge but he still handled himself professionally and maturely. I get that people are different and all but man. How could Tommy be that much better at managing fame.
@@AmphibiousCreature876 tbh i VERY much doubt tommy and ranboo are nt. like i do not think that's a factor. also most people are not ready for the type of fame they get especially to the level that those three have obtained. i can understand your last point, but i honestly think some people are better equipped for fame than others and dream ain't one of them
Someone in another video said that Dream is the definition of a man who was NOT ready to be famous. And i’m inclined to agree. I don’t hate Dream, I in fact feel bad for him, but at the same time I don’t. It’s very complicated.
I just think he grew too fast. He didn’t have enough time to actually grow slowly with his community and experience things slows, he instead had all the hate comments and the loving comments all at once. Everyone was talking about him and even though he appreciates and loves his fans and stuff, it’s just too much and he can’t control his fan base.
@@undercoverfangirl5491 i agree, most content creators take a while to become as famous as Dream is, they get to grow the community at a slow pace which in turn can make the community more calm and kinder due to the fact that they stayed withsaid creatort
Yeah it kind of happen to douchetubers too who get quickly famous solely because of their money and capital. These people never experience humility from a humble beginning that it didn't prepare them from the coming wave. From what I've seen it only became worse, let's just hope that it's just a symptom and not a full blown incurrable cancer.
the main reason i love TRO is his format. I love seeing others editing skill throughout the video. He always gets good editors and each section has its own feel. Its all comes together as a one of a kind collaboration.
I’ve been berated by dream stans for discussing how I disliked how he was acting. Dream has grown to be a cultish leader of many young fans who take it a step too far. And there’s no end in sight.
Dream is a narcissist and he's finally reaping what he sowed. If you defend and side with your army of immature children, all you have left are immature children. I don't feel bad that they are all turning against him for what seems like false allegations. Karma is a bitch.
as someone who used to be an avid dream fan, i can say with confidence that 99% of the problematic shit about his fanbase is that so many of them are young kids who are in "baby's first fandom". So many dream fans are only just beginning to learn what fandom etiquette is- how to tag fanworks, how to respectfully talk to fanartists, and generally just how to act around other fans. Just the other day i had to politely tell someone off for spamming me with requests to finish this fancomic series i was making. I'm a young adult, i have my classes to think about too, yknow? anyway, hope isnt all lost. give it a few years and probably most fans will settle down by then
I've seen some adults and teens act so dumb and stupid in the twitter platform and i cant believe that they would call themselves fans after breaking boundaries/disrespectful towards other people, i dont think young kids would even bother, in my opinion at least
Stans will slowly start to fizzle out of dreams community because once they get older and aren't going through puburty anymore their batshit obssession will usually fade away
@@ohmywht1437 its because in the USA all these groups like BLM and the Feminist groups don't really have anything to fight for anymore and thus turn to twitter and start SJWing
Imo it was kinda cringe but I respect the hustle and the rest of the video and the creator of the video so I won't sweat it, I won't lie an say keep up the *good* work but keep up the hustle.
Dream is 22 but he might as well be 15 because of how internet fame stunted his growth as a person immensely. Like seriously, some people don't have the mental fortitude to handle large scale fame and it can be detrimental to not only them but also their fans if you don't establish boundaries immediately.
a beautiful quote i heard once is that every person has a moment where they stop growing. Maybe it's when an actor strikes it rich, and doesn't need to try anymore. maybe it's when a youtuber finds himself surrounded by a constant stream of praise and approval. Whatever it is, he will continue to receive the validation , no matter his actions
Think the perfect comparison of a youtuber who got in the same position as Dream but handled his rise MUCH better was Corpse Husband. They're almost the same age, had a jump in fame because of a game, and at some point gained a fanbase both good and bad. He didn't let his fans control what he was gonna do, he didn't interact too much with them, and did not flaunt towards haters. He actually showed that if Dream just didn't interact too much, his fanbase would not have been this toxic.
I am around his age and barely feel like an adult. just because ur an adult legally doesn't mean you are mentally esp if ur neurodivergent or suffer from mental illness as well. people say to act his age but forget that people in our generation have been thru a lot of trauma and the pandemic stunted me a lot and a big part was being online a lot
My dad is a Mathematics Professor and he’s given lectures in Universities all over the world. When Dream’s defence came out for his faked speed run I showed my dad the numbers and he literally laughed and asked me if someone was seriously trying to claim they were genuine.
really thats so cool.....its for sure too complex to explain but what was factor that was so obvious(im a math idiot and hav no idea of the gameplay either lol) but jea smart dead
Cheating at a speedrun isn't some terrible crime, but Dream's behavior during the whole thing really speaks a lot about him as a person. He cheated, attacked the people calling him out for it, then pretended it was an "accident" that he cheated (and spent months covering it up).
This speedrunner Karl Jobst analysed the whole situation and Dream fully coorporated and gave him access to his emails etc and he came to the conclusion that it probably actually was a really, really dumb accident ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-G3Yzk-3SZfs.html (Warning, the video is over 1h, but if you're reading this you're watching a 2h video so whatever) I've went on a bit of a speedrunning content binge recently and this came up and it was really interesting and a lot of stuff I hadn't heard. I'd only vaguely heard about the drama as it was happening. That guy like I said is a speedrunner himself, so I don't think he'd cover for a cheater so it's his honest opinion informed by a lot more knowledge and access to information other commentators like H3 didn't have as the situation was unfolding. He also talked to the modder guy about why he didn't come forward and imagine you're responsible for maybe the biggest twitter drama of the year in your community, and nobody knows but you. Idk about anyone else, but my anxiety tells me "take it to your grave" and it seems for him it was similar
I personally don't agree with the he attacked people for it and tried to cover it up,it wasn't a cover up, neither did he attacked people,I'm pretty sure the "attack" you were talking about is the time he didn't realized and people attacked him for "cheating" when those reasons people have weren't even the thing he accidentally cheated for,the reason it was accidental is because he didn't realized,you can't say someone tried to covered it up when they didn't even realized it,and you can't say he attacked people when he was defending himself during the time period he was accused for other stupid reasons rather then what it really was.He also had grown over time and has said that he realized how reckless he was acting during the situation and he would handle things like this better in the future.One drama doesn't speak volume to a whole person,that doesn't make any sense.
@@DukeDukeGo yeah i saw that video and to be honest i feel that that made him worst, but at the same time i understand him. is like i think i would do the same, but is not an excuse. Is like trying to do something that you think is inocent, but you end up making a disaster, then when you notice instead of saying sorry you point fingers and try to cover up things. is relatable but at the same time you can see how you make things worse over time
@@alexbluer its a lesson that if you need help, you get help. his music video shows that his mindset avoids help, seeing pills as crutches rather than aid. essay videos like these also shows that there's a huge chance that dream acted alone and committed these mistakes alone, seemingly never asking for advise or help. kids, if you're in a spot of bother, don't be afraid to ask for help from people you trust. preferably those older than you and those with enough experience and wisdom to know what to do when mistakes happen. kids asking help from other kids don't usually end well.
@@RaveDecoy242 i just wanted to comment and say i appreciate you talking about this. a lot of people (especially those with social anxiety) are too scared to ask for help (or like you mentioned for Dream's case, avoid it) or think they'll be judged or misunderstood and addressing it is very very important, and i admire you for that. :)
I’ve seen this before and I’ll repeat it here: “This is baby’s first fandom.” Of course, it doesn’t apply to everyone in the Dream/DSMP fandom, but there are people who have never really been online in a community until now, and it shows. That being said, it’s all a learning experience, and as time goes on, they’ll grow out of it _hopefully._
Yes I have totally seen that! Being in the community there are so many young kids who are new to fandom culture and who don’t understand boundaries or understand some of the stuff older fans talk about. I’ve seen plenty of kids in the fandom who don’t understand things but because the creator they like talks out of there butt they do too. Misinformation is such a big thing I’ve seen and honestly it’s sad that this is their first fandom. The mcyt creators don’t have good boundaries and because of that as people onto new fandoms they don’t have an understanding of boundaries with creators. I hope these kids move onto better fandoms and I hope that they don’t ruin them.
^^^THIS. any online fanbase big enough will have large parts of their community be newbies to fandom culture and act in the most bizarre ways. i have hope for the dsmp fanbase though, a lot of their more influential fanartists in their community (sadist, wolfy, etc) are fandom veterans (ie have been in large fanbases before) so they have good role models to begin with
i think the biggest problem is that dream's attitude created a 'you're either with us or against us' mentality among his viewers. in an attempt to be closer to his fans he alienated not only them but himself from outsiders. his relationship with his fans is a really good example of why parasocial relationships are so harmful in the first place. he isn't mature enough to admit when he's wrong and continuously decides to hide behind his army of fans that are ready to fight for him at any moment. people started out not liking his fans because of their obsessive behavior, before moving onto disliking him because of his childish attitude. i just find it odd because there are plenty of creators in his direct circle that stay out of drama and yet they still foster this parasocial relationship with their fans because it benefits them financially. i don't want to give him too much credit but i can't help but think he's normalizing this type of interaction with fans
i mean of COURSE he wants to be with his fans, he gets shit every single day and at one point he just got done with it and only wanted to focus on his fans for his mental health.
Can I just add to that, this' why I'm a bit leery about vtubers? It's all the problematic implications of a parasocial relationship, but now with somebody pretending to be a fictional character.
@@Superboologan1 i agree ! but at the same time i feel like it’s less harmful in the sense that the person they’re obsessing over isn’t real and they don’t have to bend over backwards to excuse their shitty actions
"Uhm, excuse me, but the people who are slavishly loyal to me and obsessed with my approval have NEVER been mean to ME, so I don't understand how you can have a problem with them attacking you." - Dream, re: Stans
Lol it’s crazy how Dream’s sense of mortality is based entirely on what’s good for him alone, and how he’s so open about that. “The people who hate me are so much more toxic than the people who love me and hate everyone else.”
that's not even true lmao remember when the supposed pics of dream leaked some of his "fans" have been mean to him i felt so bad for the guy in the pics
i really appreciate my inclusion :) for some additional context: -dream and i had exchanged pleasant dms prior to our twitter feud, and I had no reason to think we were on bad terms. -additionally, i waited to tweet that I had won the giveaway until after a real winner had been confirmed on twitter. the joke being that I obviously had not won. -in the months following everything, i expressed a positive attitude towards stans on the whole, because I didn't at the time think that the harassment I had experienced was reflective of stans overall. though, i've come to doubt that in the year since, given that I *still* experience harassment, even now after dream has apologized to me. all in all this is an absolutely brilliant video, though. its a really measured analysis of everything, and its super impressive. just wanted to add in some additional details for anyone interested! :)
Navigating parasocial relationships should be something that gets taught to children, the internet increasingly makes it easier to fall into unhealthy levels (as seen through general stan culture), since minor RU-vid celebrities are just as beloved and far more accessible than previous parasocial relationships with celebrities
@@danceswithmetroids162 Tbh I don't think I would begin to know, I feel that there's some way to do so tho. Maybe not directly, but as a greater part of "Internet Safety" and maybe more as trying to teach healthy expectations to children. Idk how effective it could be, but something might be better than nothing anyway. I don't think parents are typically equipped for this with how things are increasingly online and they weren't necessarily online so much themselves growing up
@@danceswithmetroids162 to say the least I think a lot of people watching this video cannot drink. So there is a chance. Also, parasocial relationships have only been a thing for like a decade, can definitely consider adding it to school curriculum, adapting to the internet age and shit.
what i just don't understand is how blind he is to the toxicity in his own fanbase. how can he not see the death threats to everyone that isn't him? the best quote from this was "one person's stan is another person's enemy"
@@TheWeeksRollBy i mean yeah it still happens but the Fandom is too big. Dream cannot control all of their actions. It’s unfortunate but he won’t be able to stop them :/
This goes to show that Fandoms always have positives and negatives. Sometimes, those negatives shines brighter than the former. Edit: I may have started a argument and brought a racist over here LMAO
@@micah0000 fr like people were literally bullying some random guy because of their dislike for dream. The hate cult around dream is just as toxic as his fandom
I remember when Tehnoblade said he had cancer, and every Dream stan in existance said "He deserves it" or "That's what you get for defying Daddy Dream!" It's honestly sickening,
Must be the circles one is in because I heard absolutely nothing besides people being sad and offering support. Techno and Dream were great friends. I definitely did see things from antis though.
@@lightnightsky I definitely saw hateful statements like the ones this commenter said from dream stans, but it wasn't "every dream stan in existence". I wouldn't even go as far as to call it the majority of dream stans, especially with the amount of overlap between the two fandoms
i was a dream stan for a good period of time, back during the peak of the dream smp. i remember angrily defending dream when jawsh made the iconic anti-stan thread. but just a few months later, i made a comment making fun of stans that infantilized georgenotfound, and was sent death threats and harassed for several days. the entire fandom is self-destructive, and i hope it just fizzles out like previous fandoms have done.
The Right Opinion is the ONLY channel that I don’t want rushed videos every week. I mean I would love that but, these videos are extremely well done and so in depth that, when you come out at the end you completely understand the entire situation. Thank you for taking your time on these we know it’s not easy. Keep up the great work my boi
I like his videos but his political bias was so obvious in this video its quite unsightly and he should definitely leave his bias out of his "unbiased" videos
@@pariahmutt3589 the only time i remember that is when they talked about a tweet sounding similar to trumps writing style? which isnt really a political take its a comment about the way someone speaks
I don't know why I just watched a two hour video about drama I don't care about from a RU-vidr I'm barely interested by a RU-vidr that I haven't heard of before, but I gotta say, this was incredibly well-put together and informative, analyzed intelligently, and touched on many many points that I hadn't considered or known about before. Excellent work on this. Thanks a ton for putting all the info in one place.
I always fall into rabbitholes of watching TRO videos because he writes them and sets them up so well, even though most of the times I don't even know them.
@@lightnightsky There's something about TRO's presentation that makes listening to him enough of a reason to waste two hours for it. "I don't know, and I don't care about who's being talked about but listening to him speak is a treat in and of itself."
It's been so interesting to see this whole mctwt stan thing get so out of hand. I remember this same cycle of bullshit happening back during the SMPLive days lmao. Same shit, same ass, I say. Always the majority of stans disavowing and tight-knit groups of incredibly online bullies and sociopaths hate raiding them. Dreams fanbase is just on a completely different scale compared to even the biggest hitters in SMPLive, so the problem is obviously going to be exacerbated.
When I seen that ad, my mind immediately goes *"Did TRO collab with Merryweather for just an ad?"* considering the artist and the voice actress behind the Surfshark-chan are the regular collaborators of Merryweather
One small critique TRO: an apology that is retracted is not still an apology. If Dream took down an apology video then he also took back whatever apology he gave. Otherwise extremely enlightening video covering a background drama I hadn't the energy to look deeper into. Cheers for all the work you put in and the high level of objectivity you strive to maintain!
The psychology around Stan culture is honestly really intriguing and I think there should be psychological studies on how it behaves. Charlie (critikal) made a really compelling video talking about how TommyInnit was harassed to the point where he took a break off of Twitter for making a lighthearted joke and then the same stans who harassed him off of it started attacking him again for leaving. It just blows my mind that people like this exist, and can’t see the hypocrisies of their own actions. The message stans commonly spread about positivity and stopping hate - and then subsequently telling people to commit suicide is just mind blowing to me. Your video does a really good job discussing the possible reasonings for this behavior. Really well made!
@@internettraveler8666 Yeah, but this kind of mob mentality is something else. It's mob mentality that is so warped that they attack the people they support.
That’s why people hate Stan’s and many creators don’t want them or why I understand how in this video the RU-vidrs said to not follow them if they Stan.
Why should being a stan of dream be treated any different than in other aspects of popular culture? It shouldn't. All celebrity worship should be discouraged across the board.
It’s generally looked down upon because worshipping creators creates a toxic unhealthy obsession. It’s also considered invasive to a creator’s life. Even if the creator doesn’t mind this, it paints a really bad image. This applies especially to Dream stans. While it’s not a problem to have stans in a creator’s community, going out of your way to deliberately feed and grow their obsession is a problem. Dream has basically managed to create a whole community based off of “stan culture”, and while that did help him grow quickly, it overshadowed people who genuinely enjoyed his content and replaced them with overzealous fans that will go out of their way to attack people and defend their content creators when they’re clearly in the wrong. An example of this is Dream’s speed running incident, where they defended and attacked anybody who thought Dream cheated, but when he admitted to it, they quickly switched over to saying “it’s just a block game”
People do look down on stans for other popular cultures. Hell, before dream stans there were k-pop stans and Enimen stans. Hell there’s die hard fans of even cancelled/exposed celebrities.
@@roun6479 bruh. If you talking the content creators, they fucking play minecraft, they don't care much about politics. Ya'll really think people who's career is playing video games and editing videos for hours and hours a day just happen to hate black dudes or are offended by with whom the gays are sleeping with. Yeah nah. I frankly don't see how they time for that shit. If you talking about their fans, yeah they would have a number of fans that are problematic based on the size of fanbase and level of devotion. Just throwing it out there, from rabbit hole dives and other people's testimony and shit, for example the alt right rabbit hole takes a lot of devotion into reading and interacting within content and the community with those beliefs to be sucked into it. Most of the dsmp have like crazy work ethic and shit. Its very likely that they very frankly do not have time for this shit.
the worst is being a fan of someone before they met Dream ( Jschlatt, Wilbur, Quackity ect) and then being grouped in with stans, its like you watch anyone like that and then boom you are a Dream stan, even if you dont like Dream. shits fucking wild because if you play minecraft or make minecraft content people will be like, oh you are trying to be dream. Like no please leave me out of this. edit: some people in this thread are super bitter, if you dont like content creators and where they have gone, you dont need to call their content trash ( main example is quackity). they are doing what they like i was simply trying to state frustration with being like a quackity or slimecicle fan and being grouped in with dream stans. this is not a " i hate cc' thread. keep it mature. im a fan of many poeple who are in the smp as i liked their content before the smp and i still watch them, so lets not start any comment wars, be kind. Like TRO said, sometimes anti's are just as harmful as stans.
Agreed, I used to watch wilburs content back in the soothouse days and had encountered quackity's channel in the same time frame, but because of the rabid fanculture I'm hesitant to involve myself in their current content... It honestly sucks because I do like the content but if I watch a couple vids I'm suddenly flooded with Stan content and honestly it's making me watch less and less of the videos.
Even worse is seeing how dream warped all of these creators into basically servicing a much younger audience now and their content feeling stale now and you can't do anything about it as you watch in horror how quackity becomes a kids channel
@@BasileosHerodou bro ngl Quackity's old stuff was already mid. It's clear that he's doing stuff he actually enjoys now instead of making overly edited videos of annoying people on browser MMOs
A while ago, someone called Dream out on Twitter (I can't find the specific tweet, but it's been told it was criticism towards him) and he, knowing that his fans would harp on anyone that mildly dislikes him, replied to the tweet. Not a couple of days later, they set their twitter account to be private, because they got doxxed and sent death threats. This person was in a dangerous place and Dream's fans could've endangered this person even more-so. Then, after hearing about this, Dream made his own tweet on his private account (no clue why he would have that in the first place), saying that he finds enjoyment from seeing people deactivate/private their accounts, not understanding the gravity of that person's situation. He compared it to going to a petting zoo of sorts. In a livestream he did, he said that "The chances of you being doxxed and something happening are very low", so he doesn't even care about the fact that his fanbase is literally committing crimes. (In the same livestream, he did say he doesn't support doxxing and he has stated that multiple times, but he still openly finds enjoyment in watching people go private because of him, so this means kinda nothing in comparison to the stuff he's done. Actions speak louder than words and junk) Dream was also accused of making a racist edit (specifically about the KKK) when he was 16 (originally, he said he was 14 when he made the edit, but that was debunked) and instead of saying "no I didn't" or "yes I did" he said that he *"might* have made an edit with the KKK in the footage". He has failed to take accountability for his actions over and over again. It really shows when he fails to learn from his mistakes. It's upsetting to see how much he's hurt so many people in the past and yet people continue to support him despite him being wrong over and over again.
I wanna clear some things up because a lot of this is wildly untrue. The person you mentioned actually did not get doxxed and set the account to private a minute after the tweet. They later said they weren’t doxxed and instead boosted a dox of Dream that came out during it. ALSO! One more thing to note about that person. The tweet was wildly homophobic and written underneath DREAM’S COMING OUT TWEET. They were not criticizing him. Many of the people who claimed to be doxxed after he responded weren’t being critical. They were being bigots and their tweets contained homophobic abuse towards Dream.
Secondly, about the doxx thing he said on stream- yea, that’s not the best way to word things because I can kind of see what he was trying to say but also it was a pretty bad statement. Thirdly, about the edit. Dream did admit to it, the age doesn’t matter in the way you think it is. Because it isn’t automatically malicious that he got his age wrong. Dream can say he was 14 and just be incorrectly remembering how old he was when it was made. Dream did apologize and take accountability for the edit and even wrote another paste bin that was- honestly a WAY better response than I think a lot of people make when these things happen because it was very direct and called it what it was. Now, where age DOES matter is how old he was when it was made (a teenager living a conservative household) and who he is now. How he is, truly, trying to change from who he was back then. He did a lot of growing up. You don’t have to forgive him, or accept the apology but he has committed to changing. I don’t mean to spout this kind of stuff but I’m a firm believer in letting someone learn and grow. Especially because Dream is still a pretty young guy.
@@ColaLoser He is 22 years old. That's old enough to know that you should not be okay with your own fanbase doxxing people who say something as light as them not liking you. He needs to do a fuck ton more growing up if he still thinks that doxxing people is okay as long as it's not someone who's him or that he agrees with.
@@ColaLoser I wonder how you could justify Dream not setting boundaries when his crazy stans drew NSFW gore drawings of his 14 year old sister, made a bunch of LGBTQ kids get doxxed and exposed to their homophobic parents, and acts like all his fans are okay and its the huRr duRR haTeRs that are toxic? I believe in growing up but to do that you need to take responsibility for your actions, which in Dream's case, he takes zero action and tweets about liking to sniff his cat's butt.
@@raphaelbrown6314 I don’t know. There was always a nagging feeling at the back of my head how TRO’s previous video wasn’t made for introspection but instead his (quite noticeable for the past few videos to an obnoxious level) political biases
I think I'm either just too old to understand the whole phenomenon, or don't have the right disposition. To me, Dream is just... some guy. He could be funny, or the greatest Minecraft player in the world, but even as a kid I don't think I would have latched onto him as a figure worth following that strongly. I've never been one to idolize athletes or my favorite gamers, or heck even content creators, to the point where I stan them. I just see them as people, and appreciate what I can from them. I just don't feel the calling to rally behind someone who, for all intents and purposes, is just a normal bloke.
I've just finished the video, and still feel the same as op. I don't get the appeal, he does come off as just some guy people have put on a pedestal, for some reason, for good and for bad. Without that aspect of it, nobody would be talking about Him. He'd just be another face in the crowd of minecraft RU-vidrs. I think I have an analgous story that might sum up what my understanding is of the whole thing. Bear with it. Dream comes across as like...some Lovecraftian cultist who finally succeeds in getting Cthulu senpai to notice them. Bob is super hyped about this, at least initially. There's bound to be plenty of perks for being the guy to get personal attention from a Great Old One. Some of the cultists are super hyped about his achievement too, and they think this guy is awesome, and they sing his praises when they meet up at Jeff Bezos's super secret volcano lair underneath skull crusher mountain. The rest of the cultists are just sick and tired of hearing about how awesome Bob from Walmart is for summoning Cthulu, and wish the other cultists would just shut up about it already, especially during their ritual sacrafices. It's already gotten tiresome, and it's only getting worse. And Bob? Bob really had no idea of the scope of the baggage train Cthulu senpai brought to this relationship, but now He's stuck with no way out. Also, now he's kind of responsible for whatever madness and horror the High Priest of the Great Old Ones unleashes on the unsuspecting world, because, y'know, it's Cthulu, that's just what He does. But its somehow worse, because for whatever reason, Cthulu senpai likes Bob, and will do almost anything for Him. Even if Bob is an otherwise perfectly ordinary and otherwise ethical guy (maybe he joined the Cthulu cult for their dental plan, or something, idk), anything and everything He says or does is going to result in problems he never anticipated, often beyond his control. The other cultists hang on his every word, looking for reasons to justify their own groupthink, either for or against him. And meanwhile if someone cuts Bob off in traffic, or the cashier at the dollar store accidentally shorts him a few cents, Cthulu senpai is liable to wreck their entire life and swallow their souls. Of course Bob isn't going to really go that hard on chiding Cthulu senpai for his atrocious behavior, not when he's the one who woke him up. He wanted this, to some degree. Of course he's going to apologize to Cthulu when he upsets him. Senpai is here to stay, as long as the stars are right. And if he goes, Bob goes back to being Bob from Walmart all over again, which would probably suck just as badly as the position he's in now. Worse, actually. It is Walmart we're talking about after all. Maybe in time the stars wont be right, and senpai will have to go back to sleep underneath the ocean, but for now Bob from Walmart is stuck with him, whether he likes it or not. So he may as well make the most of it while he can. Best bet is to keep your necronomicon close and handy, maybe get an elder sign tattoo, or just draw in on witha sharpie marker, and hunker down to wait it out in a bunker. Or, you could just go mad, and laugh at all this drama and the three ring circus that formed around some ordinary guy. That's whats worked for me. Also, it's always the Cthulu cultists, isn't it? That's why I only stan for Hastur.
@@neopilled To be honest i've seen far more toxic Dream Haters then i have Dream "stans" and if you remotely defend dream or talk about him in a positive light in any shape or form your automatically called a Stan which is very annoying tbh i get the toxic "stan" part that worship or are super toxic towards other ppl but thats fairly common in any community Star wars Bts etc
I was a fan in the earlier days and I liked the upbeat vibes he and his friends had. They were fun to watch for me. Although as time went on my opinion of him soured by quite a large margin.
he reminds me so much of my younger self except with a large platform. I hated taking my ADHD meds and I often blew up and went on rants about things I knew nothing about. I was endlessly impulsive and I ruined all of the friend groups I was in because I needed the stimulation from drama. I can't imagine how often I would be cancelled (for good reason, probably) if I had a large audience back then instead of just my 5th grade class. edit: everyone is fighting in the replies so don't look there if you don't want to watch a fight going down
Also someone with ADHD and a lack of impulse control here and I, as well, see the similarities to Dream and how he reacts. It does kind of make you feel for him but at the same times I also know that I need to work on that about myself and he has to, too. Even at 27 years of age now I still struggle a lot, but it's not an excuse to blow up on people, you gotta actively work on that.
I cannot for the life of me comprehend that man's obsession with defending the word "stan" as not meaning "stalker fan", which is what it literally has always meant and has always been used as. Like, bestie, literally just say fan. That's clearly what you mean.
[in a stage whisper] it's because he cultivates a parasocial relationship with his fanbase and tries to downplay the toxicity of his community because he's allergic to holding himself accountable
Because it doesn’t mean "stalker fan?" It’s from an Eminem song where a fan named Stan sends Eminem a bunch of letters before killing himself and his girlfriend because he didn't get Eminem's responses in a timely manner. So really it’s even worse and more loaded than "stalker fan"
Or, alternatively, instead of using a made-up term concocted in an internet echo chamber, why can’t they just use the word “fanatic”? It has existed for years and means the exact same thing. The word “fan” is also probably derived from that root word anyway.
The main thing i actually disagree with dream for, is when Jawsh simply stated his dislike for stans based on his own experiences, Dream simply replied with 'you are an idiot' which clearly spread hate towards jawsh. and it worked! because now thousands of peope dislike jawsh and he 'encouraged' their hateful behavior towards others when it benefits him.
What's funny is that I'm pretty sure Deltarune stans are the ones that hate him now. The whole Dream thing is so old in Internet time that few people even remember it
Jawsh was getting hate from the stans long before Dream got involved. Same thing happened with ThirtyVirus, even though Dream never got involved in that situation, a lot of other RU-vidrs did and ThirtyVirus got a lot of shit just for voicing his right opinion
@@mushroom_pluto6598 Fine, let's assume he has absolutely no control over his community. The least he could do is not rally them up like a total dumbass to attack another creator. In that situation, he very clearly endorsed the existence and behavior of stans, as he called the very criticism of that behavior "stupid".
my issue with dream is he simply grew too big too fast and let all that go to his head in a way. unlike most youtubers who followed the same road, they took years to grow their fan base, to find what they want to do and how to do it. along the way they encountered the usual bumps in the road, people who hate their content, the usual fake accounts/accusers, the old fans leaving from both growing up and the change in content, everyone has dealt with this. but the problem is dream grew too fast, and in turn has to deal with ALL of this at the top of the mountain, not on the journey up. and that's where I know things are bound to turn sour, because he has no experience with any of this, the slightest problem makes him jump, and goes about dealing with the problem in a negative way. on top of that, he hasnt gone through the inevitable moment where you lose some fans to stay with those you want to make content for, and i feel like thats apart of the reason he only uploads the same content now, because he never had that moment that separates fans and stans, he doesnt want to lose any of them because hes afraid of losing what he has now, which, is scarry when it becomes your livelihood. but still, this doesn't alleviate him of his actions, he just needs to learn to actually deal with it, but because of the community he built, and how scared he is of breaking it, i have a high amount of doubt he will learn unless something major happens.
very good point! the massive rise to fame in such a short amount of time mixed with his very competitive, impulsive behavior was not a good mix. he isn't evil, and i dont hate him, but like you said im sure it did get to his head even if he didnt realize it.
No offense, not trying to be an ass by typing this, but this take is just horrid. He literally has not been in drama for several months. He has gotten SO MUCH better. I'm not a stan, but saying things like "the slightest problem makes him jump, and goes about dealing with the problem in a negative way" and "he will learn unless something major happens" are totally weak and unresearched claims. Also I'm sure he cares about not wanting to lose what he's built, anyone would. But if he cared THAT MUCH he wouldn't drop his upload rate to 1 upload per 1 or 2 months (he used to upload weekly fyi.) I'm sure he's just trying to live his life while also maintaining his platform, if it were more extreme in either direction he would either be way less active or upload/stream way more.
he uploads the same thing because it's successful lmao, that's almost certainly the end of the story. i don't think there's some advanced psychoanalytical motivation or whatever, the video archetype is wildly successful so he keeps uploading it. The real interesting thing is that he almost never streams or uploads any DSMP content despite it being also wildly successful. And whitelists a whole lot of small creators into the server, it seems like that's more of a passion project than the manhunt cash-ins
@@transformera4834 Well that whole "outside of his content" was kind of my point. He has a life, he probably just wants to live a little at times instead of focusing all on his platform, and I'm sure he's also doing some stuff here and there like lore building as you said; and I'm 100% sure he's also prepping for George to move in with them and to start doing IRL content (he DID say he was gonna do that this year.) Like his upload rate, his stream rate and shorts are pretty inconsistent and infrequent as well so I'm sure he doesn't put much time towards those. Dream studied the shit out of the algorithm and creator growth, he was very smart in how he approached RU-vid, and has reached a point where he can not upload nearly as much as most other active creators and still do much better and maintain his platform. Btw I haven't really watched the video, I've listened to some parts of it but not a thorough, full-on watch, because it's 2 hours, and I've already been pretty invested into things Dream-related for a while now and have seen multiple other videos already so everything TRO says I'm already aware of. So, I kinda just came to the comments to give my 2 cents, I already knew almost everyone was gonna be against Dream here.
Dream redefining "stans" to paint them in a positive light as if it somehow refutes the criticism makes no sense at all. It's like if I said that lemons are yellow, then someone claimed that I was wrong because they define "lemon" as what we normally call an apple. Dream has even made it clear that he believes that it doesn't matter what a listener believes a word means, what matters is the intention of the person saying it, so redefining "stans" to refer to a completely different group than what it was used to refer to by anyone else doesn't even make sense by his own logic.
Him redefining 'stans' makes me relate it to celebrities singing 'imagine'. You get some wishful thinking, which is cool and all, but executed in the wrong context.
the word stan has been redefined like that for years, it's not something new and he didn't do it himself stans from all kinds of fandoms have been calling themselves stans since at least 2016 and they havent been calling themselves stalker fans most stans just see the word as very big fans and invested in the fandom
@@None-lx8kj except it's not just perpetuating someone else take Tens of thousands of not millions have been using the term like that for years, it's not just a few people
Dream’s extreme rise in popularity in a very short time is probably why so much of his public relations feels immature and unprofessional. Many of the top creators on youtube such as Markiplier, Pewdiepie, and JackSepticEye, all gained a following overtime, and they were able to better transition and grow as people as their followings grew. They did have hiccups from time to time but it’s growth none the less. The problem with Dream however was just how unprecedented his rise in popularity was. Rarely anybody could generate a following that huge in a short amount of time. It’s a fairly recent phenomenon that’s driven by the way internet culture as evolved over the years. I can remember back when it was groundbreaking news that Psy’s Gangam style was the first RU-vid video ever to break 1 billion views, where as nowadays there’s countless over videos that easily break that number. Because of Dream’s fast growing numbers, he wasn’t able to cope with it in the same way other large creators have done. It’s not possible for a human being to comprehend that amount of people who love what you do. And I think his unpreparedness to handle such a huge audience is what lead to all of the troubles he got in. Most people at his size would usually have a publicist or access to some kind of PR team. But it’s clear that Dream doesn’t have any of that, and perhaps if he did, many of these situations could have been avoided.
I may have been a bit harsh when I made my own comment where I largely criticised his way of dealing with controversy, because I would’ve probably made the same mistakes if not more had I blown up seemingly overnight like he did. I, too, often react with my feelings before thinking. I do still believe I could’ve handled or completely avoided some of the things he walked himself right into.
thanks again for including a segment about my conflict, you spoke about it all so well. Better than I could LOL turned out to be a brill video, great job man
I was a Dream fan when he started to get popular, but him saying idiotic things when angry ended up pushing me away from his content. Dream needs a better understanding that his words affect others, no matter his intent. TRO mentioned that Dream needs to apologize to people he wronged, which includes people that don’t like Dream.
Do your research lol. He HAS gotten a better understanding, he hasn't been in drama for several months, and he's apologized to the mods 2 or 3 times already.
@@ShadowRLX I only learned about the mod apologies after I watched all of the video. I probably should’ve edited my old comment to reflect this. I’m not really into Dream’s content anymore. Also, if it is true he has changed, he wasn’t that changed person when I was a fan.
@@mintythedemon1785 I mean that's fair, some people just get bored of the same content over and over while others are just addicted to it. However no one can majorly change in a short amount of time, but now that some time has passed Dream has definitely gotten better, and I'm sure he'll continue to get better and deal with situations better than he did in the speedrunning drama, mark my words.
TRO is the only youtuber who could make a video about a person I have 0 clue about or interest in and I will still click and watch the whole thing. His research and nuance is pretty much always enlightening.
i have been in internet fandoms since 2008, and while i know im not the oldest i land just at the right place and at the right time to observe the lead up to the "stan" culture that exists today. i see the dream fan beheaviour as a crossbreed between homestuck and bts, it being the "babies first fandom" and very vocal. Homestuck cosplayers were banned out of conventions because they didnt know how to conduct themselves in those places (not knowing how to cosplay, respect conventions and other peoples space), and i see the same kind of behaviour in the dream fandom. I say its a cross between the homestuck fandom and bts because it takes that "first time" fandom feel plus the activeness of the bts in social media, and i think the perception is similar to the perception people had of homestuck.
I know right??? Like I enjoy Dream as a casual viewer and Im more invested in the lore for the Dream SMP but its just seems like a lot of fans are very very young and dont know of the fandom etique that was pretty relevant and important in like tumblr "golden" era cause they never got to expience it or hear it. How sad that it seems like this people first people on a fandom live to the stereotype of "crazy stan" :(
With that in mind, I still would rather stay the hell away form fandom like that. Understandable that these new stans would make mistake and cross the line here and there, but man! I would rather save myself a headache and avoid them all together. You mentioned about conventions banning Homestuck all together and guess what I would take the similar approach too.
you are so right. i got into mcyt right after being really into kpop twt for a year. literally the first thing i noted was how similar the two felt with all the fancams, update accounts and general internet culture.
Dream doesn't look like a bad or terrible person but he in fact needs to learn from his mistakes which i hope he does. And i kinda wish he brings back his unsolved series. His content now is just.....unenjoyable after getting repetitive.
As someone who has been in the Dream smp fandom for over a year now and recantly started watching Viedeos like this and starting to see things in the fandom more criticly (or more rationally) I have to say that when you are in this bubble you don´t really get to see any other side but the Side of "your" Content Creater, that you want to defend. I never was to invested in all the controversy Stuff, because I just enjoyed to watch the Content. But I always was on the "Dream smp side" eventought I didn´t even knew any arguments from the other side. Most of the Fandom is pretty young (not everyone but there are many minors in the fandom) and is getting influenced pretty easy, they want to have an Idol that they can look up to and realate and if this Idol gets attacked they feel like they are getting attacked themselfs.I still enjoy to watching the content from some of the Content Creaters but as a once part of the fandom I have to say that the Community is selfdestructing themselfs and the Fandom ( mosty stans) was a part of my reason to distance myself from the fandom and stop watching most of them regulary. And for Dream I think he got to big to fast and doesn'treally know how to act with this mass following him ( he could never learn "how to be famous"). He is very impulsive and treats his Fandom as if he has a hundred fans when infact he has millions of them and from what I can see he doesn't know how to act when he is in the wrong. Don´t take this as an attack on the Fandom (or on Dream), that is just my personal oppinion of what happens in the Fanbase. (P.S ignore my spelling and Grammar mistakes English isn´t my first language)
Why is it so fucking difficult for Dream to just admit he was wrong? Without attempting to excuse his actions in any way, or blaming anybody else? Even in the big apology he STILL insinuates that the mod team and critics are somehow responsible for him all but calling a crusade against the mod team and for him withholding the fact he, in fact, did cheat. Or that spur of the moment emotions were to blame. I understand he was ashamed, scared, anxious, whatever, but that does not excuse his behavior. It upsets me that he can't just own up to what he's done.
That's my main problem with dream. Sure, it's a big ego blow and tough pill to swallow when you realize you've done something wrong, but it's straight up manipulative to always turn it into us against them, as if anyone who doesn't agree with you is your enemy. He says he does things but never follows through, THAT'S why his fanbase is out of control
@@skyre5528 I didn't object that. That's the point I agree with the most, but constant hate and namecalling will never give him idea that he is not the best person
Dream is unbelievably annoying. He refuses to admit he did wrong, and he refuses to see how his actions have consequences. Yes, his fans won’t dox him, but they have done so to others that are supposed “enemies” to Dream. There were other bad stan groups before. Hetalia Stans, Undertale Stans, Markeplier Stans, but NONE of these groups and their actions go back to the creator(s) because every one of these creator(s) heavily disapprove their stans for their actions. All Dream does is defend and approve their actions.
@@thelolim___ster It was a briefly lived extreame group of fans between 2017-2018 who would defend mark from anything and everything, it seems to have mellowed out or they got bored with it.
as someone who doesn't consider themselves as a stan, but likes MCYT/ MC Streamer content, Dream IS the reason why a lot of people are where they are today. But creators like him have a HUGE flaw which is they dont know how to denounce their community's behavior. if your community is harassing people, doxxing people, ect... regardless of how big or small the part of your community is, always PUBLICLY denounce bad community behavior.
@@simplymarvelousliving I agree with your statement, but as TRO said, a lot of those toxic stans stemmed from his lack of direct action. And what I mean by that is him not addressing the issues as they show up, rather, he reminds his stans of his values as general statements. Dream usually says 'x is bad and I don't agree with it', which while it does address the overall issues with his community, does not do much to stop it. Because he doesn't actually address the drama or call out his toxic stans, it never goes anywhere. And trust me, I'm not saying he has full control of his community, I'm just saying he has SOME control over his community, and he should learn how to properly use it. I've watched him for almost two years now, I just wish he would address that stuff more directly.
@@jadefang2222 I always see people saying that Dream should do more to stop these stans, but the problem is they never listen to anyone, they just do things on their own accord. Every time Dream tells them to stop, it just pours gasoline on the situation and makes them behave even worse. In the past few months Dream has stopped giving a shit about this stuff, and it's just led to less of it happening
as someone who has been IN in so many fandoms before, I think it's very important to not attach yourself THAT MUCH with someone you don't even know personally, not everything is real in social media, well realistically. i just hope people would at least keep their selves sane enough to not worship influencers.
Waiting to tell his audience that he did, in fact, have an illegal mod pack that enabled him to break the spreedrun record until the controversy calmed down was a really bad idea. If I was in his shoes and had discovered that, I think I would have apologized immediately and then set up a new speedrun recording. I would even make sure to record going through Minecraft files to ensure the public that he isn't cheating. It's much better than putting on a mask to make yourself look authentic.
Idk if he was banned from speedrunning as a whole but imo he should. I don't hate him or anything but since he did cheat and denied it many times I think that's only fair.
@@putent9623 I say give him a second chance. He may have just been doing it out of fear to keep his rep up. I'm sure that he's matured some since then. After that, give him the 🪓
@@dennis_s nah I don't really care, I don't think his a bad person but I'm also not sure if I can fully believe his story about what he did so honestly I think the fairest conclusion is to ban him, although I do guess most of his runs are legit and his actually a top competitor.
@@putent9623 dream has actually stated himself that he still speedruns, but he doesnt submit them to the charts anymore. the state of his relationship w the mods is pretty chilly so im guessing they just dont wanna be in each others business anymore
@@dennis_s Tbh, I'd say the second chance he had was when he realized that he had made a mistake, yet still pushed his misguided narrative, even though the other side was burdened with "proving" he cheated mathematically, and did so beyond a reasonable doubt. Banning him for at least a few months/years will bring home that that kind of gaslighting to disrupt fair runs just to save face is not welcome at all. He only came out with his "apology to his fans" regarding it because he had a direct reason to do so, yet he still managed to address the harm he caused and not only forgo an apology, but instead focused on how stressed and hurt he was because they did their jobs and dared to question his runs integrity (in which they were proven 100% correct). In my opinion that doesn't really evoke regret of ones actions and all harm from them, but instead speaks of regret of getting caught.
at 12 years old I was an Eminem stan & after my friend brought to my attention how obsessive I seemed I immediately stopped. I’m thankful I experienced being a stan at such a young age because it taught me earlier to not idolise public figures so much & focus on building yourself up.
bruh i almost ended up being a shapiro fan. My dad showed complete disinterest in the mentioned stances and it kinda snapped me out of it. Then again, I ended up raised distrusting of most people and questioning all my relationships, so realizing that I trusted an online figure out of nowhere probably helped.
Not to detract or insinuate that the concerning escalation of fandom culture did not exist before, nor was it not already escalating (i.e. the entire history of tumblr), before the pandemic, but I think it's of note to mention that the past two years of isolation and economic despair due to the pandemic has played a large role into the acceleration of this issue in both teens and young adults. I agree this kind of vitriolic behavior is abnormal, however when put into context of the isolation, of being depraved of events and/or experiences that help drive the emotional maturation of an individual, and the increasing incentive to live vicariously through caricatures of existing people or characters online (in order to escape the mounting stress of day to day life), it is not entirely surprising that we have ended up here. Obviously there is a plethora of contributing factors to this issue, I just believe that this is important to note, specifically in contextualising this phenomenon with CCs over the past couple of years.
i’m super late but i was in the speedrun discord during the time that happened. they ended up had to lock all the channels every time dream spoke because his stans overran the discord and made it impossible to discuss anything real. he was incredibly hostile pretty much every time he spoke, but so were a couple of the mods replying to him so i can’t fully put that on him. they had to make a separate channel in the discord solely for discussing that because his constant presence in there along with his stans overrunning the entire server made it impossible for it to function as normal. it took months to recover-and i had left by this point, but when he finally admitted to cheating i can only imagine the server was a mess again for days
I respect Dream as a content creator, but I don't respect him as an influencer. Dream's parasocial influence upon the whole internet has became basically a virus. He doesn't know what to reply and does things on impulse--which can be understandable due to the rise in fame and meeting so many celebrities for the first time. He was basically just someone on that internet that knew what they're doing content wise but was definitely not prepared for the incoming responsibility of his own community.
I wish the whole idea of every adult youtuber being an influencer wasn't so normalized... not every adult should bear the weight of millions of brats looking up to them because they're parents as too busy doing sweet fuck-all. He's just playing minecraft... Not every adult youtuber should be responsible for raising people's kids and giving them life lessons. They just make entertaining videos. It's as simple as that.
@@anaalina5964 Just that parents you know Don do what parents have to, raise they kid they just give a phone and that why all of drama we see on internet because parents is not do they job (and sorry if i got wrong word because English is not my first language)
I don't much care for Dream. But I kind of do care for his Fandom. I see myself from 10 years ago in them, I constantly bump into them absolutely everywhere online, and I'm continuously impressed by how massive this Fandom apparently is. I checked AO3, and the highest rated fanfic about Dream/George has the most amount of kudos (=likes) I have ever seen. Ever. Not the most for a RU-vidr, the most of everything. More than any One Direction fanfic, ever. More than any BTS fanfic. More than any Lord of the Rings, star wars, Harry Potter, Supernatural, BBC Sherlock etc. Fanfiction OF ALL TIME. If it wasn't 50k words long I would have probably read it just to see what the buzz is about lol.
@@baguettegott3409 idk if this is something u know already but fun fact ! heatwaves is based on the song heatwaves by glass animals and the fic got so popular that the song blew up, trended on tiktok and i think got into the top 100 of something. also ao3 crashed one time because it updated lmao. also i've read it and it's pretty good! if you wanna read the full story heatwaves is part of a series called "dreamland" and the next part is called "helium"
I personally consider the speedrun stuff to be fairly serious, but that’s because I was into speed running and had heard about how much of a taboo cheating is in that community years before Dream came onto my radar. And I was introduced to Dream as him being a speed runner that dabbled in other Minecraft things, not the other way around, so that also factors into it. Edit: Even if he didn’t realize he was cheating at first, why in the world would be not take a look and make sure there weren’t mods or anything installed before hiring someone to do that math and make sure? Especially if he’s straight up fighting people online over this, and would know he’d installed a pack like that in the past. His rude behavior combined with that takes any sympathy/respect I would’ve had for him if he just hadn’t known.
Watch Karl Jobst's newest video on it. I changed my perspective on it imo and shows that he may actually have not known he was cheating Edit: this one ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-G3Yzk-3SZfs.html
I would consider the cheating scandal something serious, if it wasn't Minecraft. This game is not meant for speedrunnig, or rather for competitive speedrunnig. Like, at all, there is too much rng involved from every corner.
@@petre1758 There are many games not meant to be speedrunned but are speedrunned competitively anyway. You'd be surprised as to how many speedruns for many games rely on getting good rng.
@@nothere1578 i know a lot of speedruns rely on rgn, almost all of them do to some degree. But in MC specifically literally every centimeter of the game is rng based. I hold a lot of respect for any speedrunner of any game. But I do think it's kind of silly to be so obsessed about your placement on the MC sp leader board specifically. This goes for both Dream and the Mods.
@@imanidiotforreplyingbut7465 Yeah that's the worst part, he probably completely forgot he had his mods on, which makes his reaction to deleting his mod files and hiding the truth for so long even worse.
the funniest part of dsmp is that news around it died down hard around september bc so many of the dream stans went back to school and didnt have as much time to post abt him or get into fights
It's really surprising to see someone be so intelligent yet empathetic at their opinion. The fact that you call out bad behavior yet always give attention to a more psychological aspect of things really makes your content based no matter what
A thing that I really dislike about the current internet culture is that people's dislike of content that teenagers enjoy is fueled mostly by cringe culture, and they put a lot of energy in finding things wrong with those things. And that's not to say the people or things being scrutinized are irreproachable or even good at all, very often there will be many things to be criticized or called out, but the communities supporting them would be held to a very different standard if they weren't, well, teenagers. Because if you find something morally wrong with the thing a kid enjoys you have a pass for being shitty to them. It's complicated and most definitely not something all people involved do consciously but there would be many MANY ways to approach these discussions without using them as an opportunity to shit on 14 year olds, some people get ridiculously heated when interacting with them
it’s not *because* teenagers are the demographic, it just happens because teenagers are the most likely to hyperfixate on something. at that point it doesn’t matter your age, if you make one thing your entire personality you’re insufferable.
I must say, as someone with very strong hyperfixations and special interests it's always very embarrassing and disheartening to see people online make that sort of thing toxic.
I feel like we need an update on this video. Because a lot of the dream stans did turn on Dream when he revealed his face. I feel like that's an important part of this story that is left out due to timing.
@@WhitneyDahlin While I get what you’re saying, I feel like it doesn’t really matter 😅 His fan base is still the same, they turned on him for a month or two, but they’re right back to acting like they did before the face reveal
I think the problem with the Dream tweet about 'drug songs' is that he tends to take this extremely smug attitude whenever he's in the line of fire, then wriggle and grovel when he realizes he said something stupid. I find the cycle of "start shit, apologize, then start shit again" a lot of online figures do really tiresome
Honestly his original drugs tweet is fine. Funny enough its his apology that is somehow racist when it someone specified black people, like bruh. I guess he is addressing what he is accused of, but bruh, where did black people come in.
I'm entirely unfamiliar with this so sorry if I'm saying something dumb but: Doesn't he have ADHD? And bare with me here but I think the cycle of him being an idiot then being defensive then backtracking is understandable in that case. Impulsivity is a symptom of ADHD, so is poor self-control. I think he says dumb things and because he has an ego he won't just go "sorry, I was being brash", he will get defensive. Idk, I kind of see my friend in him with that behavior. They both tend to do something extremally dumb and potentially hurtful and then, because they have troubles with admitting they're wrong, they will just go around the topic vaguely trying to apologize without actually saying anything lol.
@@panonymousbloom5405 Oh gosh, that makes me emotional, the fact that his actions remind you of your friend's actions. This is kinda sad. Ngl, I do feel pretty angry towards Dream whenever he gets all wacky and defensive, but after some though, I grow sorry for him.
@@bopitgenius8996 that's very sweet of you. You must have a good heart. Imo he is just a very avarage dude with some impulsivity issues. My friend with ADHD does that - he says something dumb, or even does something that he will regret. For example, he once threw a pillow at my other friend in pretend anger. The problem was, the pillow had a pretty big zipper and it hurt. He did the same thing - firstly he was like "how could I know?!" etc. Then he went silent and hugged her. And then he sheepishly apologized. I overall think people tend to be even less forgiving of mental issues when they dislike a person for reasons but that's another conversation for another day. But the fact that I *think* I understand where he's coming from on some level may also mean I tend to give him a pass, I don't know. I also tend to be frustrated with the way he handles things (because one, called it about the stans. Two, please hire a PR manager already, this is not good for anyone!) but then I see both the stans and anties and I also can't help but get a bit defensive and sad over him. Again, thank you for that comment. It just warmed my heart. :)
As an older fan of the Dream team, I am able to realize that they are not required to say anything about important issues and they aren't perfect people. I don't expect anything except funny and entertaining Minecraft content. I don't look at Tubbo and think, "What's your opinion on BLM?" lmao
As a black person I get so annoyed when people force celebs to speak it out on subjects like racism I watch let's say Pewdiepie for example for entertainment or things that interests him and in turn I escape the world's problem for a little bit
@@theoutsiderjess1869 As a white guy I just keep my mouth shut because my opinion is racist and bias and I’m too privileged to speak on these issues. (Also cause I don’t care, I have my opinions and people have theirs, usually completely pointless to try and argue)
Dream made an interesting point: He was 16 in 2016, when Trump was elected. He is a very young guy at the time of a lot of the popularity came his way. He was a man who acquired so much of a following, so much power, so much prestige, with not enough time to figure out how to deal with it. Dream is someone who acquired fame and power before he was ready to wield it. Many of the famous 'bad' monarchs through history, are usually people who are forced into power and fame before they are old enough to be ready. Dream is a RU-vidr who clings to his audience, because he feels emotionally attached to them. It doesn't matter if he's hurt people outside. Very likely, he sees his Stans as a part of him. That if he doesn't protect them at all times, he's fanbase immediately dies and his career ends. And lets face it, many Stans and people like that are Twitter Mobsters, in that they will never stop trying to destroy the enemy. And that's his attitude. Us or Them. Tribalism. It lacks nuance. It's immature. And he fosters that immaturity. Yes, it is correct to say that sometimes it's us vs them, but not to everything. Not everything is WWIII. Not everything is a red line that can't be crossed. Dream has MADE everything, even minor criticism, a red line. A man gifted too much power and fame, before he was mentally and emotionally ready for it.
@@peterbc6129 Ohhh... I get it, you just don't expect to here Trumps name talking about something completely irrelevant. Haha. Also speaking of Trump, I would just like to say how annoying and stupid it seemed how Dream had to apologize for supporting Trump back then, like what the heck does his ideology have anything to do with anything he does online? Just another example of him pandering to his stans. I don't really care for dream at all I just found this funny.
Holy dang, I listened to "Stan" when it was released, I knew that was where the fandom term came from, but I literally never knew that it was short for "Stalker Fan". I know that's not really the takeaway here but it's been... 22 years. That song is old enough to drink and I'm learning this now.
@@bunny-dl2fithey never said they didn’t know the song was about a crazed stalker fan….They said they didnt realize the name meant anything. OP knew Stan was an obsessed fan in the song, but didn’t know his name actually meant stalker fan.
There is a word for what Dream defined 'Stan' as: it's called a fan, that word already exists, hence the need for 'Stan' to be created to describe a similar word with different purpose
Dream honestly could've avoided all the stan drama if he just did what most youtubers do and create a name for his fans/fandom like pewdiepie did with the "broarmy" or the gamegrumps with the "lovelies" instead he took something that already had a meaning a negative one at that and tried to change it
the term stan comes from the Eminem song called "Stan", which is about a crazed Eminem fan named Stan who writes him letters and eventually m*rders his own girlfriend
@@bj1894 ehh, I’m not sure if it would’ve worked. Stan was basically the go to word for dream when he got big, bro army and lovelies came up while pewds and the grumps were coming up, so the fanbase evolved with the world. Dream was too late for it and stan became cemented already
Exactly. He can't just change the definition of previously established words to suit his narrative, he needs to due the due diligence of using words PROPERLY or correcting himself when he doesn't.
Fr. He doesnt seem to have bad intentions either he does however handle things very poorly. But he rose to popularity so quickly its essy to see how he doesnt know how to deal with criticism or hate or even the mass amounts of fans he now has.
@@anotherhuman3866 he's still very very young and to ask him to deal with all of this is insane? you can always look at this with hindisight, but at that time, this was not the only thing that was going on, dream had hundreds of fake allegations daily, and some stuck longer, but you wouldn't know which until much later. his fake speedrun thing didn't stuck until people who made false allegations had to jsutify their fake allegations by pointing to one real thing.
@@Just_Flipy oh yeah i was in fact there for all that- i do however think he is too quick to get defensive without first taking a minute to collect his thoughts. From what i remember he seemed to get rlly defensive (which is fair enough) but also that leads to his fans getting extra defensive too. I think my issue lies more with the fandom the loud minority and dedicated fans that blindly follow without thinking hey maybe this person is in the wrong. Tbh i dont have a problem with dream at all, im a fan. But he definitely doesnt know how to deal with some situations properly especially when he has such a big platform- not his fault really because he gained attention so damn quickly but if its overwhelming he could take a step back maybe leave twitter bc thats where most of the drama happens. Idk in the end he did seem genuienly apologetic for the speedrunning thing and i think ppl got far too angry abt that it is quite literally just a block game lol.
It’s kinda sad to see that people will literally do anything for a creator. I do understand that you can’t control your fan’s actions or just knowing what they do/say. BUT, I do think he is responsible for the DEATH THREATS that people have gotten from his fanbase. Also, if I was in Dreams situation with having my fans try to dox, death treats, send rude comments to people who has an opinion or something along the lines, I wouldn’t “reward” my fans with a compliment/heart emoji/“i love u guys” because then those people will think that being mean is okay, and they would continue.
Stans pretty much apply to almost every fandom that’s popular. Once the vocal minority made a huge shout, the internet perceived them to be that toxic. Yes some Dream stans are weird and toxic as well as the anti-Dream stans. No matter what they do people will still perceive them to be that way like fandoms in Fortnite (Kids), Genshin Impact (P*do), MHA (Shipping), etc. Edit: My reply for Kirstein got deleted for some reason. I’ll make it short for the ones who are curious for the context. Genshin Community as a whole aren’t p*dophillic, Internet just blindly labeled them (same thing with the furries) with overused and blatant “tHe aGe oF cOnSeNt iS 18 yEaRs OlD” insult. There are only 5 kids out of 49 characters in the game. Be cautious when you’re saying you’re a GI player to randoms online and avoid people in Genshin Twitter
how is genshin pedophillic, if u dont mind me asking? I've recently started playing genshin and I don't want to assimilate myself into the community if it's like that
@@kirstein108 the fandom isn't necessarily that, but they also attack people for not playing by the "meta" and are generally pretty rude towards non-veteran players, from what I've seen.
dream doesnt seem to understand the difference between, fangirling/boying, hyperfixating and unhealthily obsessing over something/someone, they overlap but I feel like there is a distinct difference between them
The fact that, I’d like to say 75% of dream stans don’t know the meaning behind ‘Stan’ is pretty ironic. Considering the whole point of stan was to point out flaws that come along with worshipping someone to the point your life revolves around them.
I can assure you most on Twitter do. They all want to "own" the word and change it's perception. Someone compared it to gay meaning happy before and now it's being used to reference homesexuality
I think the problem is that his fans are terminally online and unfortunately their leader is also terminally online but with an artificially inflated ego. Dream can be proud of his achievements but he refuses to own up to his mistakes and his followers back him up on it. I think we all need to take a step back and realize that dream is literally just some guy.
Reason I dislike him is that he can't admit his in the wrong until it blows out of hand. My first ever impression with him was with him and the speed run situation. It wasn't good, he should work on himself more and try to know what's right and wrong. Not sure if fame is getting to him. But fame sometimes does do that
Personally I'm against the use of the term "stan" in any positive way. We already transformed the word fan into a positive thing, now meaning someone that really likes something, we don't need another word for the same thing, specially when "stan" came from a music video criticizing the blind fanaticism and adoration of the stalker fan. I can't see anyone that knows the origin and watched the video clip happily adopting the term, unless the person is like Stan. Sadly, although the "stan culture" as we know is recent, the sentiment is very old, and the toxicity of it too. With Dream's fanbase we can see all the problems easily because of the sheer size (and seemly unwillingness of Dream to course correct his community) and I do hope this changes, otherwise it will only get worse. TL;DR: Stans bad, stop using the term as a good thing. Thx bye.
agreed. I've been called a stan before but it definitely felt more derogatory. I've only ever watched the content, and I've never made art, music, etc. (those are things I'd associate with stan behavior) I enjoy dream and the entire group's content and follow them on Twitter, so I'd call myself a fan. I've never (maybe except once I think) replied to those tweets, but if I have it's just a "cool" or "congrats" type thing. I don't do the stalkerish things or have the fan accounts. (only thing I have is techno support which I feel is understandable but I guess it could be seen as stan-ish) but back to the og topic, I agree that stan is a bad word and no one should use it. call yourself a fan and leave it at that. obsessive fan behavior is not a healthy thing and can lead to mental health issues in the future as you can become dependent. it's basic conditioning, in a sense. anyways, that's my (hopefully) counterintuition.
@@3u-n3ma_r1-c0 I should've specified further... meaning like art that OBSESSES over it, like everytime something new happens. I'm not helping my case...
@@3u-n3ma_r1-c0 I may be incorrect, but I believe they were referring to typical "stan behaviour" as exhibiting a fandom and its content to an extreme point and being overly enthusiastic about it. It can include making.. questionable remarks and content relating to said fandom.
I just feel like Dream is a prime example of somebody who speaks before he thinks. Not to mention he doesn’t understand that boundaries are something that are needed for a community to thrive. He is allowed to say he loves his stans but he should also create that boundary that doesn’t allow parasocial behavior. Idk. He’s human, he can make mistakes. Every content creator can. It’s just how they improve. Dream doesn’t seem like he’s ever improved. I think he needs a social media manager. At least for Twitter.
True, a manager would probably be useful especially for Twitter, it seems though that he isn't given much room when it comes to making mistakes. Ig it's the whole faceless aspect or something where ppl only regard him as an online personality and not a real human and so jump down his throat with ever little mistake he makes meaning improving/educating becomes a slow process.
As a person who was a dream stan I can tell you that i genuinely did not see ANYTHING wrong with dream back then. Everytime id see people hating on dream or his fandom my heart would SINK because the dsmp was such a big part of my life at that time (I was chronically online). And I’d search every crevice of Twitter just to see people make dream look like the good guy and not someone to blame. I remember seeing him apologize for eight different controversies during the span of one week and I’d comment “dw we still love you” (I didn’t know anything about the controversies themselves). I also remember just hating some parts of the fandom, but always thinking bad to the fact that dream said something along the lines of “the bad parts don’t represent the whole fandom”. Which obviously was true, but due to points you mentioned in the video, still wrong. And I also clearly remember how much I hated the “antis”, mostly because I agreed with many of their points but I was already too deeply invested in the dsmp😭😭😭😭 Like it’s insane to me now how much impact this MAN WHO I DIDNT KNOW had on me, a teenager
I'm seeing 2 different takes on this, some people are like "Its disgusting he would even say that pills make you normal and the fact he's admitting to using them as a crutch is disgusting" and then this one where its "its disgusting that he's telling people not to take the pills. I think the problem is the masses don't know what they want, individuals do, but the masses don't
The thing is, this is based on something true. He DID throw out his medication. This is a vent song of sorts (as far as i'm aware). And in some cases, it's better to not take medication if it doesnt work or makes you miserable. I also believe that people make this seem more impactful than it is. Young kids aren't going to throw away their medication, because they shouldn't have access to it without their parents in the first place and the parents most likely won't throw away the medication because of a song. And the people who are old enough to take their meds on their own, should be old enough to understand why they need their medication and why they shouldn't throw it out.
he’s literally explained this so many times. he was expressing how people told him to take them to make him normal because of his extremely severe adhd. he never took them because when he did he felt like not him self. he wasn’t promoting it, he was talking about HIS experience and how they didn’t work for him. he said that not everyone is like that and to not throw away their medication. he was just talking about his own experience.
@@brid4 it dosnt matter his intent, he should have thought about what this implied. His audince is impressionable encouraging the flushing of pills is not a good idea. Not saying it’s not forgivable it’s still a bad thing to do
@@jorjy33craft59 Here's the thing. Children (and some younger teens) shouldnt have access to their medication without parent supervision in the first place. And even if they somehow manage to throw them away, the parents have the power to buy new ones, once they notice they are missing (because i heavily doubt that the meds are kept in the kid's room). To actually stop taking meds, you need to sit down with your parents and a professional and talk about this. It's a process, not an 'in the moment' kind of thing. The only time it can be 'in the moment' is when you dont notice a difference (adhd doesnt always have to be treated with medication) and even then you need to talk with a professional and your parents about this. I also have faith that people who are old enough to be in charge of their own medication, are old enough to understand why they may need their medication and to not throw it away.
Ah finally, TRO approaches this. And considering he is talking about the fanbase rather than Dream himself, This is one of the few drama instances that seems to be out of the creator's hands. Will this hold true throughout the video? I'm eager to find out.
@@shgds Yes and no. There seems to be a definite trend of his power's temptation being too strong to ignore, and he uses it irresponsibly. Considering Dream is basically a kid still, I cant say I'm surprised, but it's still worrisome. But beyond that, the situation at large does appear way beyond his control. For each thing he spurs, there are 5 more that he clearly didnt want to happen but did anyway. And that's the vibe I get. Hes a kid both not ready for power and uncomfortable being in such a position. He at least seems to understand he shouldn't flaunt his influence, an aspect if celebrity culture many fall into, so hes clearly not a bad person. Just imperfect and immature. Dude needs a good role model though.
Whether ur a dream stan or not you can’t deny he needs to be more accountable of his actions rather than backtracking and making excuses every statement Don’t act all desperate for something and then go “didn’t rlly care lol”
I was really into the DSMP for season 1 and part of season 2, and tbh it was great. Sure it was kinda cringe, but it was the harmless kind of cringe where you just get really into a storyline without caring what other people think. There were/are SO many crazy talented artists in the community too, and as an artist, having that huge community to bounce ideas off of and be inspired by, it was amazing. I have really fond memories of that time. The problem was that a lot of people, especially the young part of the fanbase, started to become obsessed with the *people* instead of just the story. And certainly, the fact that it was roleplay where the people involved in the SMP had their characters share their names, didn’t help. I remember some streamers being harassed in chat in non-SMP streams for things their character did. And this especially goes for Dream. He became so much more than “just a guy who makes content I like,” lots of people straight up worshipped the guy. I remember when he was teasing his face reveal, there were so many people, so many KIDS straight up simping for him and making thirst traps of his hands and it was so majorly weird. The art side and the simp side of the fandom were usually pretty separate, but of course social media doesn’t know the difference, and we were using the same hashtags so I saw so much gross stuff. And then the cheating scandal came out, and I just couldn’t stay in the community anymore. There were so many angry people, both inside and out. More than just harmless cringe, people on the outside would think you were one of the insane obsessed people if you were associated at all with the community, and the people inside the community were furious at anyone that dared talk bad about their idol. It was so goddamn weird. And there genuinely were so many cool people in the community still, but you couldn’t do anything without facing such huge negativity from both sides. And Dream didn’t help at all ofc. He just doesn’t have a clue how to reign in such a huge, obsessed audience. But I also don’t blame him that much? Like, he basically blew up overnight, he went from no one knowing him to being idolized in just a year. He had no time to grow with his community, the rate was just too absurd. I think it makes total sense that he doesn’t know how to set boundaries in his community, and that some of the attention goes straight to his head, and that he’s defensive about his community, because all the hate coming from his stans, is also directed from outside back at them. So he sees his fans and his name being attacked and ridiculed, and he responds by being defensive and irrational. That’s such a normal fucking human response, and while that shouldn’t excuse him from getting better, I really think it doesn’t speak badly about his character. Even the normal pills thing that everyone hates, is just not that big of a deal. Tactless? Absolutely. He needs to realize that he doesn’t have a small community anymore and everything he does will be taken to it’s logical extreme. It’s his responsibility to make sure he doesn’t accidentally put bad messages out there, this is about more than just him. But the core of his message isn’t a problem. My brother has ADHD, and he went on pills in middle school and he hated it too. It made him feel not like himself, but everyone else made him feel shitty for wanting to go off them because he was such a ‘inconvenience’ to everyone else when he wasn’t medicated. Maybe they had his best interests at heart, but all this middle schooler heard was, “we are going to force you to take pills because you aren’t normal and we value our comfort over your happiness.” It sounds like Dream had a very similar experience, and that’s valid. He NEEDED to think things through more about how people would take it before he put that out there, but his intent wasn’t malicious. And I’m not involved with Dream or anyone else even tangentially related to the community anymore. I’ve left the DSMP fandom a long time ago. I can’t even watch Dream’s videos anymore because I just get a bad taste in my mouth. I just think it’s crazy how so many people want to paint him as a god, but the people critisizing those kids that do that, paint him like a demon! He’s just a guy, a human guy who is in a really strange and unique position, and yeah he fucks up! But I imagine nearly everyone would, and while totally people can and SHOULD still criticize him when he does, I think it’s crazy how many people are ready to totally vilify him. Just… why does he take up so much space in your mind?
I read the first paragraph and thought this will be a short comment. Boy was I wrong. I agree with some things that you said, but I think Dream takes enough responsibility in most(most, not all) 'drama' he's involved in. Some people will never be satisfied though.
This is why, even though I adore creators and celebrities and such, I still see them as *people.* It's healthy for the fan, and it's healthy for *them* to be seen as a normal person every once and awhile.
As an older person who has been enjoying minecraft content over the past year, I found this really interesting and beautifully presented. I've gotten lots of rude comments, mostly from friends, when I bring up the content creators that I enjoy, so I often feel as though I need to be on defense even before people attack my interests. I think what frustrates me the most is how frequently I have experienced negativity for simply enjoying minecraft content, but it's also taken me a while to realize that I shouldn't live my life based on how others react to my interests. Likewise, we don't need to fully endorse everything a creator does solely because we enjoy their content. I think there are issues on both sides, but the lack of accountability from those who have more sway with the more radical members of groups needs to improve.
I think it takes a lot to be able to not get upset and jump to fast into situations simply because someone doesn’t agree with you. I also use to get talked down upon a lot for simply liking Minecraft and I was always so quick to defend myself, but soon you realize why do i even need to defend myself for people to understand why i like something??
"Only the ones that hate me are furiously defending me and harassing others." Make that make sense, Dream. Who goes to bat so hard for someone they don't like, respect, or idolize in some way?
It's obviously to make the community look bad. It's also trolling. The k-pop stans fandom also have plenty of these guys, and almost every youtuber with at least 1M subs and an active fanbase.
That's more of a deflect than anything else. The stans are just people who have no identity, so they tie themselves to a youtuber they don't know, and defend him at all costs, instead of doing anything to better themselves. It gives them a sense of duty and fulfilment, despite no one asking for it. They elect themselves vigilantes, defending their city at all costs, however they deem fit. And because the average dream stan is below the age of 17, they can't really realize they get nothing out of it, and make themselves, and the person they like, look like clowns. I think dream knows that, but he deflected the issue by saying "My FANS, arent the ones doing it" as a way to save his fanbase's face.
I enjoyed Dream's content a while back, right around when he started getting popular. I remember watching a few compilations and simply enjoying watching the Minecraft Speedrun leaderboards for a little while up until Dream getting shipped with George became.... Too common... I'm a lesbian. It took me a long time to come to terms with that fact and it was really hard for me. How Stan culture obsesses over gay relationships makes me extremely uncomfortable. I hate rpf. I hate Stan shipping. I think the internet should have learned a very valuable lesson after Dan Howell came out and then said his community shipping him with Phil was one of the reasons it took so long for him to feel comfortable with himself. Yet the internet learned nothing. Being straight should not be considered the norm, but also the fact of the matter is sexuality is a very personal thing that someone can battle with for YEARS. Stan culture completely trivializes that struggle. Stans are not privy to the private lives of their idols and should stop pushing the issue.
Yeah, it's honestly less about, "awh, sweet dynamic" and more about fetishising gay relationships. I know that they have gone out of their way to say they don't have a problem with being shipped, but even if it doesn't affect them it affects the LGBTQ+ community. It gives the same energy as dudes who tell lesbians to make out because they think it's hot. Very uncomfortable, very creepy. It feels like all my negative experiences as a bisexual girl are being profited off, and that he's teaching his child audience that this is ok.
It makes me very sad to see people still dealing with this shit. Society has become so much more accepting (I’ve actually been able to feel safe holding hands with a girl in public) yet this stuff still happens. I wish it was talked about more because I’ve almost never seen it brought up even though it can be very damaging
Dream has even stated that he's "undecided" about his sexuality (that's not the name for it, but I don't remember it rn) It's probably that it is true, and Dream doesn't exactly know his sexuality whether it be straight/bi/gay/etc But it could also be a cover up so ppl don't harass the fans telling them "Dream is straight, your making him uncomfortable bc you doing this, this, and that" and to avoid sparking anymore controversy with the lgbtq bc if he were to be other than straight, it could lead to more harassment by homophobic ppl or just ppl who hate the LGBTQ in general- also to avoid telling ppl his sexuality (possibly being afraid to do so bc he isn't comfortable) and also knowing that if he sides either way, it leads to disaster
@@candle_carl5348 the problem is people like you, taking offence to it. If it was you being fetishized fair enough, but these are people who don't give a shit and would rather see their fanbase happy, even if it is admittedly fucked. I mean no offence, but where do we draw the line? "As an irish man I dont like how Jacksepticeye laughs at jokes about our accent, he should really talk to his fans and say thats not Ok" should that be the norm now? Cause thats what your precedent sets, it's a rolling ball, once people can be offended over shit that the people who should be offended aren't, then it gives no one any control. I don't like how Philza plays Minecraft, he should stop because I want him too Let me say again, your feelings aren't invalid, but when it comes to telling other people how to react, your input is
Stans are legit nuts. Like I know K-pop idols get stalked, bullied and harassed, but I’ve never met a more boat rocking Stan community like the dream community. I understand not all fans r gunna be like that but it’s very disturbing how big the BAD fandom was compared to the sane and normal side of the fandom. It was so crazy
That's what happens when a famous person has no redeeming qualities. You get a fanbase with 0 good people in it. Like fans of PewDiePie, Turkey Tom, Keemstar, Shadman, & Seth MacFarlane.
