I rarely go to shooting ranges and hardly ever pick up a gun. But this guy's videos make guns look like a lot of fun. I like the science behind it all.
Damien Holland Just be careful if you start shooting more. I know people with tattoos that say after the first tattoo you just want another one. It's now 3 years later after I started shooting and I have 5 rifles, I'm picking up my first revolver next week, and I'm going to try to get my first hand gun (Tisas 1911) for Christmas. If you're a hobbiest like I am, especially a hobbiest with a collectors mentality, it's hard to not find a gun you won't like to have. Just remember, you don't have to own expensive guns. My most expensive gun is my AES-10B RPK which was $600. The others are half that or less.
Here’s how I like to imagine it: if you you’re driving at highway speed it takes you 15 seconds to cover that distance. That’s pretty far! It would take me well over a minute to run that.
@@JohnLloydScharf it has nothing to do with comparing those other rounds. The bullet is lethal, has minimal recoil and high capacity. It's better than the 44 and 357.... The magnums extra penetration is pointless for self defense. You don't need to shoot through a house to defend yourself
That's amazing! I've always been pro 9mm, and get so annoyed when people say they won't kill or even stop someone. That's dumb. 10mm won't stop someone shot in the finger, it's about shot placement and ammo. Love 9mm! This was an awesome video like the first! Keep up the great work and videos, iv8888! Thanks man!
The 9mm 124 gr bullet gains 200fps in a 16" barrel (according to ballistics by the inch) over a 4" barrel. The question is, what is the velocity of the 16" barrel 9mm 124 grain at 440 yards? Obviously enough to cause expansion. Another question, how does the bullet fare out of a 16" barrel at 7 yards? Does it come apart? Does it over penetrate? Pistol caliber carbines are a lot of fun, I have 3 of them, 9mm and .40 cal... but there is little information out there as to the effect of the higher velocities on the bullets. A CorBon .40S&W gains 300FPS in a carbine.. this is > a 10mm, but does the bullet hold together?... a test by you guys might be useful.. no one else has done one.
It's worth noting that HST isn't bonded in the traditional sense that most people use to refer to expanding bullets. Federal has a totally separate Tactical Bonded line of bullets. They -- along with rounds such as Gold Dots, Winchester's PDX1, and several others -- have jackets and cores that are *chemically* bonded together. It's practically impossible for the jacket and core to separate on such rounds regardless of the intermediate barrier they're fired through, though they often give up some measure of high-end uniform expansion & deep-cutting petals in the trade. HST is *mechanically* bonded as mentioned in the video; the cannelure essentially locks the jacket into place. This is enough to prevent core-jacket separation under normal conditions: bare gelatin shots, heavy clothing, and in most cases drywall, plywood, and even sheet metal. However, auto glass -- particularly windshields -- will often still do a serious number on HST and cause core-jacket separation. HST has some of the most consistent penetration and high-end expansion of any JHP out there... but there's still a case to be made for chemically bonded rounds, particularly in a law enforcement context where many firefights occur in the presence of vehicles. I say all this as a guy whose primary carry load is 147-grain HST, by the way.
Much appreciated. I see you prefer the heavy-for-caliber loads as I do. I've actually purchased HST from there before; definitely a great site to check out. I've considered trying out other self-defense loads, but so far HST is my go-to.
The Ranger T is a great round with some of the most amazing wide cutting petals of any design I've seen. However, I've seen the occasional failure from it in tests, more so than with HST. Not often, but enough to make me value the consistency of HST. Besides, I'm an unrepentant Federal fanboy.
Thank you for your testing on the 9 it is really nice to not have to spend the money and leg work so I really appreciate what you do it is a great confidence builder the 9 has always been a favorite to me and now even more I have been shooting since 8 years old and now almost 56
9mm technology has came a long way. Its been proven that there is not a huge difference in so called stopping power between calibers. I carried a 40 for a long time. To me it was a happy medium, i had capacity and power. Now my m&p 40 has a 9mm barrel in it with speer GD. Ill target shoot any caliber but when it comes to concealment and round capacity ill take the 9mm. And for all those big headed folks who say you should learn to aim instead of relying on capacity, how do you know how many rounds its going take tho stop a threat? You may land every shot or Maybe there's more than one threat. Id rather be over prepared than under. The only wrong gun in my eyes to carry is the gun you can't shoot well. If all you can shoot is .22 well carry a .22 . I sure as hell don't want to be shot by a .22 and its better than no protection at all. Ok my rants over.
Eric & Chad I enjoyed both Part 1 and Part 2 of your 9mm videos. As a retired Police officer and firearms instructor I've been involved in several ballistic tests of different caliber ammunition 9mm vs 40 caliber...etc. I've been a fan of 9mm for a long time. What about a Part 3 and Part 4, 9mm ammunition ballistic comparison of a 9mm+P 50 grain ammo as well as 9mm G9 80 grain. Thanks for posting great informative videos.
Saw a history channel episode .. "History of War" the 9mm and variants (10 mm) were used greatly during WW2, as a pistol and rifle round by Europeans (Italy, Spain, Greek, , Scandinavia, Swiss ,Germans) but rifle bullets were made popular by the American military. Our use of heavier pistol rounds (45) and such became niche and then became the standard and many companies began experimenting . Or at least thats how I'm remembering it . In any case the 9mm has proven itself.
Very informative. I've been planning on 9mm for my first handgun because it's cheaper to practice with- good to know just how useful as a self defense round it s as well.
It’s always fun to push the extremes of what a bullet was designed for: I took a CV a bobcat one and 48 twist 44 special bullet and a sabot pushed behind a 80 grains of Pyro decks pushing about 15 30 ft./s faster than that bullet was designed and it did unbelievable damage on the Whitetail at 40 yards and left a hole on the exit hole about the size of a baseball! The Golf Dot 44 spl was incredible!
I would like to see a side by side with other hollow points, may-b throw in some Cor-Bon DPX ( my round of choice ) and show how they differ. I love to see these vids, but its all one sided so far, 1 specific round, its not about that round but the 9mm round in general, I love my 9MM and wont give it up for anything but still, more lead please.....
Nice video, I really enjoyed seeing the expansion at 440 yards. Obviously, like you said, it's not as good as at closer ranges. But, I wasn't even expecting as much as it did. Looking forward to the tests with clothes. Keep up the good work, guys!
Not ballistic gel, but I shot a 2” thick slab of pork ribs placed in front of 10” of flank steak, all covered with a carhartt jacket,with my Ruger PC9 carbine at 25 yards, using Golden Saber Bonded 124gr +P. 5 1-gallon water jugs were placed behind the steak. I fired 5 rounds. 2 of them ended up in the first jug, full and beautiful expansion, with some canvas material stranding out from the center. These measured 0.52” and 0.55” inch. 1 ended up in the last jug, with only partial expansion, 0.39” but it hit a pork rib and shattered it. 1 ended up just poking into the front of the second jug at .562”, and the final round was just sticking out of the steak, nice expansion at .57”. Would not hesitate to use my PC9 and my chosen load, GSB9MMD, for home defense.
Federal HST in both 124 gr. and 147 gr. are currently my defensive carry and home defense ammo in 9mm but I also choose the HST in .40 and .45. It is a fantastic round. I have never had a failure to fire, or eject in any of my 9mm firearms that I have tested them both in, including my Glock 19, Glock 26, M&P Shield and M&P 9 full size (approx. 100 rounds fired in each). It is probably going to be even harder to find now after the well deserved praise from Eric. It will probable make getting Speer Gold Dots seem easier by comparison ;) Great work as always Eric and Moss Pawn guys, I am pleased to know that even at long distances it still performs so well.
Then go watch Hickok45. He never shoots past 80 yards. Why be a dick on someone else's channel especially when he is going extremely beyond anything Hickok45 does & doing it extremely well !!!
Like RK Harm24 said, below, 440 yards is waaaaay farther than I can hit a target with iron sights for sure,..but that Federal 9mm HST round is impressive. Thanks for taking the time to show me ( us) this potential power of the 9mm.
Why not try the "Barnes" bullets? IMO, for being solid copper bullets, they seem to really perform well. Especially in my hunting rifles! So, I was wondering how they would perform in 9mm, .40 cal & .45 cal. Especially when the EPA is trying to stop the manufacture of lead core ammo!
I'd also like to see some tests of the Barnes bullets, mainly because I love this kind of stuff. There are, however, two big problems with Barnes all-coppers. The first is cost. Lead is cheaper than copper and probably always will be. The second really only applies to reloaders, but the load data for Barnes bullets is always a little squirrely. I believe this is because copper, being less dense than lead, requires longer bullets which generally have longer bearing surfaces, create more friction which means more pressure, etc. TL;DR, Barnes perform very well, but are spendy and a PITA to work with.
Yes. Tests of the Barnes would be great, but the velocities of hunting bullets leave a LOT more energy to play with and bullet performance is a completely different animal than with a pistol. Getting a solid to perform properly at the lower velocities would be the most interesting to see.
Man, this is interesting. For civilians, a pistol carbine, Glock combo could be pretty efficient, price and practice wise. If the need rises, it looks like anything out to 200 yards would be easy pickings, at least for suppressive fire to evade.
Basically an m1 carbine is a 9mm with a longer cartridge but with rounds that have higher pressure out of a 16.5" carbine the should be an even match . I've known people that have hunted with surplus m1 carbines for decades that always get their share of game especially with feral hogs .
Thanks for the two distance videos on the 9mm. I have heard a lot of people say 9mm don't have stopping power or kill power. Which is not true. You skin is not plywood. It similar to the ballistic gel. At 400 yrs punching though wood and expand in the ballistic gel because of the kinetic energy. Definitely with the hollow points at 125g. In the matter of security no intruder will want a part of being shot with the Federal ammo, FMJ or any other bullet coming out of a 9mm. Just my cents. Love the 9mm videos.
Alex Romanov just put gravy on it with sautéed onions mixed in. But be close to the bathroom for several hours. You will shit up a storm. Better make sure to have some sugar water close by to replenish your electrolytes.
I love my 9mm PX4 Storm & one of the main reasons why I got it was because it holds 20 +1. Thanks to your videos you have proved it is just as good as a 45 acp.
I teach 300 meter freehand pistol using everything from a Glock 26 up to the CZ P07. If you do what you are supposed to and get to know your weapon, you can really reach out there. Awesome to see that I'm not the only person who understands that.
I got this stuff in my Nano. I saw raving reviews of this round and its consistent performance which is why I picked it up. I saw this guy shooting it through a similarly barrel length'd handgun and each round literally stopped right next to each other where there was only a fraction of an inch difference and that similar 13" penetration. Between the 124gr and 147gr the 124gr seemed to have performed better too so that is why I had picked it.
Rule of thumb for 9mm out of these carbine barrels is that the round is going about as fast at 100 yards as it is at the muzzle from a 4 inch barrel pistol. Ballistically that’s what the 16 inch carbine barrel does for you. A pistol sighted on at 50 yards is going to drop about 2 inches at 100 and it really goes downhill from there. Check out the various charts available online and you can see that a carbine sighted on at 100 yards would probably drop close to 90 inches out at 440 yards. With a ghost ring sight the best you can do is know your drop, guess the range as best you can, pick a holdover point, start squeezing and adjust. Without a spotter it’s tough to get feedback. Practical shooting at long ranges really demands a team effort.
That would be interesting. The 9mm out of a 16 inch carbine (~1300 fps) is darned impressive at 440 yards (1/4 mile!!). A 125 gr 357 Mag from a 20/24 inch lever action barrel is hitting 2300+ fps so would be pretty close to 7.62 X 39 or 300 AAC BO ballistics with similar weight bullets!
I hope everybody watches the little 9 mm kick ass. Just goes to show its all you need to feel like you have been carrying the right weapon to stay safe as well as hunting many types of game. This video is what alot of folks need to pick a weapon in 9mm that is not so big it knocks you off your feet but still can knock your target off there's
I really enjoyed the 22LR and 9mm videos, Eric. And I'm definitely looking forward to 45ACP testing! I'll go ahead and confess now. I am a 45 snob. 1911's and XD;s, oh yeah! Well, last Summer I purchased my first 9mm pistol. And it turns out that, uh, 9mm is fun as hell to shoot! Who would a thought?
I retired LE and I've carried just about everything you can think of on duty such as .357, 9mm, .45 Auto and .40 caliber. I have no problem with the 9mm but nothing better than the .357 for stopping power!
Well in the first video they did the full metal jackets (fmj) went right true the torso at the same distance,but now that you ask he did not mention it. But it looks to me like somewhere half way !.
jamie geen I think that at 8:34 we see the torso in profile view and the bullet tracks that are visible inside it hint towards a pass-through ... I could be wrong of course ... zero experience in such things ...
Another Excellent informative Video 👍👍 After watching this: IMHO a 9mm AR-15 pistol or other PDW like a CZ Scorpion make great home defense options. They are a lot easier to use under stress than a pistol👍👍🤠
I have 3 Kel-tec products . Very innovative. Bought them because of their for their overall weight and caliber . Gen 2 Sub 2000 and both the PMR and CMR 30 . This video helps to confirm what I researched ... especially the 9mm question."Will it kill?". My bug out bag is much happier . Thank you.
What I love is the .40cal guys which think they have a hand cannon. They make fun of the slightly smaller 9mm. They don't like it when you point out the .40cal is a castrated version of the 10mm, which is a castrated version of the .45acp. lol Yeah it's a bigger, slightly better cartridge but not that much bigger that you can brag about it. It doesn't matter what kills you, your just as dead.
mdr8088 How about the fact the 40 is tied with the 357 currently for the top spot on 1 shot stops? You can tell me all day long the story of how the 40 is from the 10 and the 10 from the 45 but on the street real world shootings get my attention not stories that are not completely true!
well done Eric, I've been looking into the ballistics of the Fed HST 9 mm round and I think they're awesome as well. ( All I'll carry) They perform just as stated and today that's a rare thing to encounter with so many other brands out there claiming to be good defensive rounds, most of the time you'll see that most don't even compare to their claimed ballistics tests. Hats off to Federal for putting a good defensive round out that we can trust. Thanks for the great informational videos my friend!!
Post 2021 I think is when they downgraded the hst into less expansion because boomers demanded higher penetration in the hollowpoints. Federal added extra crimps to make the bullet expand less.
6:17 Eric did shot the PCC without ear protection! This is also an advantage with PCCs. Because of the long barrel all the powder burn before the bullet leave the muzzle and they are a lot quieter than a rifle or a pistol.
I would recommend the 147gr HST loading for distance shooting where it will stay subsonic the entire flight. While the single best thing to improve accuracy out of the gun at 440 yards would be to shoot with a scope, some of the inaccuracy we see in this video is due to transonic instability from the supersonic 124gr flying downrange way beyond the point it slows down to subsonic. For further HST terminal ballistics information see also ShootingTheBull410's ballistics gel testing on 9mm HST out of a 3" barrel. Both the 124gr & 147gr Federal HST are excellent and the best self-defense 9mm ammo I know of. The 147gr is my favorite because I think it's every bit as good as the 124gr, plus it has subsonic benefits.
Did you spot the company execs from Federal dancing about and popping champagne in the background???? Eric just made some Federal execs very very happy.
I'm impressed. Initially I did not think it would expand but after watching a video by DRT and James Yeager and this one it proved it. For your barrier test try dry wall and plaster walls. Almost everyone has it in there homes and it seems to be one of the only things I have found that will clog a hollow point. Great video
This is the same load I carry in my Glock 19... also shot it out of my Sub-2000 at the same 10 yards and it penetrated the same number of water jugs, but almost turned inside out as it was running alot faster, tells me it will perform like the pistol at 100 yards. perfect.
Would have liked to have seen the actual penetration on the torso. Also would like to see a versus video on the Sub2k and the JRC. Keep up the good work (y)
I recently converted all my 9mm ammo from Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P to Fed HST 124 gr HP. Non +P. From a Shield 9mm, M&P9 FS and Sig 226/239 9mm's, all are shooting HST's.
I used to be a speer gold dot lover as well, and I still do love them- but frankly once I tried the HST in .40 in a 180 grainer... Well holy cow. Not only is that ammo, and all the other federal HST I've tested EXTREMELY consistent ballistically and velocity-wise, but they case INCREDIBLY damage to wetpack, gumby and stretch armstrongs, gelatin (not ballistic gelatin, but actually super saturated dense gelatin) and other test mediums, the HST puts more energy into a small space than literally any other round I've tried. It just makes things EXPLODE, and continues on to give GREAT penetration for a hollow point. IT'S INCREDIBLE!!! Also, the final slug is beautiful, like a flower
Late to this particular party, but I’ve loved HST for a bunch of years. Now it is second only to Lehigh Xtreme Defender or Xtreme Penetrator (the latter for .380). 100% confidence in HST, though.
The ability of the bullet to expand is all about the velocity at impact. I don't know what the velocity is coming out of the KelTec carbine at the muzzle, but it is certainly much higher than the 4.6" pistol you were using. So, at 400 meters, it still might be within the engineering spec for minimal expansion. Not that I want you guys to set up a chronograph at 400 meters, because given the "cone of fire" at that distance the chance for the survival of the chrono would be low. Still... if we knew the ballistic coefficient of the bullet and the muzzle velocity at say, 12 feet, we could perhaps get some idea of how fast it was still going at 400 meters (440yrds). I am thinking that the velocity needed to expand that bullet is somewhere between 1150fps on the high side (which would leave the petals fully peeled back to almost touching the bullet base) to perhaps 850fps on the low side (which would show very minimal expansion like it did in the gel "torso"). In other words, if you fired that carbine into the gel block at 7yrds you would see overexpansion because of the velocity, though the line it followed would leave a pretty good permanent wound channel somewhere in the path of the bullet in the gel.
Agree with you on HST. Outstanding in all calibers and barrel lengths. HST is not a true bonded round like the Gold Dot. But it performs better than traditional non-bonded.
Both 9mm distance videos are fantastic, man. I prefer my pistols top-heavy so my carry is a HiPoint C9 and I have a matching HiPoint 9mm carbine that can share magazines. The carbine has a great little scope so if I run out of 30-06 rounds for distance I might just be able to make something happen with my 9. GREAT information!
Nice video follow up. But plz don't skip .40 S&W. I prefer it to the 9mm. I've had weapons in both and it's just a personal preference. I'm not a fan of the Kel-Tec. I had one in .40 cal and it discharged when the bolt was released. The safety was on and nothing was on the trigger. So I returned it and told the gun shop about the problem. We took it back to their range and it did the same for them. Not sure if it was only a lemon or if others have had problems? But this is just FYI
Good video. I've never understood why some underestimate the 9 mm round. In a good pistol with good loads it does the job well with less wear and tear on the gun and less recoil which equals faster follow-up shot and control.
hst hps are known to not exspand from a 3.8 inch barrel from about ten feet with as little as one thick shirt but almost never exspands fully when it hits anything even near the iwpa regs of four layers of 1psf blue jean like matterial.the upside is its not young and high exaplosive and my favorite color immature its been kickin for a while which allows for its devolopers to what what works and what dosent.8t also unlike many brand name competition when clogged dose not massively over pennetrate because it usauly has a very small amount of petals barely hanging out which allows for that much more energy and slowing capabilitys
just wanted to say thanks this video helped reaffirm my desire to own a pcc. my family argues that I should just get an AR but I live in a very urban area and I want a rifle I can use as a home defense tool and plinking fun. the 9mm carbine or even sbr is for sure where I'm headed.
