How Good Was Martin Brodeur Actually? 

Lots of goalies had great defence!

Broduer never had a team with a high scoring offense. You know how hard it is to win games by 1 goal?

@@user-dv7nk7hy3f not if you score first and play trap defense. It wasn't that hard. The devils made a living off that in the mid-late 90s

More than half his career he didn't have that defense tho and was still racking up 40 plus win szns and other great numbers

This guy is 100% right, the devil's not only deployed the most effective defensive system the league has ever seen, but this man also has 2 of the greatest defensmen of all time in front of him in Stevens and Nietermier. The league had to shut down for a season and change rules because the devil's trap took over the league and scoring was at an all time low. Stevens was the most feared player ever, Broduer played through the entire dead puck era. Was he good yes, but very much a product of the system. And yes many of his shutouts were around 15 shots. It doesn't matter if you don't like it or not, this is all just facts.

😢 i literally have the stanley cup preview magazine from that season right next to me as we speak. 😢 😭 I feel that Kings team was unfair, they basically had 3 number 1 caliber lines lol

broduer won with mostly defense exact opposite fuhr won with mostly offense and lil defense and hes at the other end of the argument. Borduer was only good cuz of his defense and trap era and fuhr was only good cuz he had tons of offense. Both guys were great and deserved to be hall of famers

No, the devils didn’t score goals. The devils offense was below average except 98-99-00. In fact two of the years they won the cup their offense was in the bottom half of league 95 and ‘03.

It’s refreshing to know you sir pay attention to the game! I love Marty, I’m from NJ and when they moved here I was 5-6 years old and fell in love with them and the game. Marty was head and shoulders above everyone. Sure he got his share of help from the defense but who hasn’t! Anyway…Go Devils!

Potvin and CuJo were mine

when it comes to hockey its so fucking hard with gk. football dont have as many insane gks that icehockey has. roy belfour hasek potvin m.richter brodeur fleury lundqvist we havent even mentioned any of the russians. a few swedish gk that never left sweden that are amazing. its so fucking hard to chose. but belfour and brodeur is among mine. hasek too.

That's the part they don't grasp. They say ez defense with Devils, don't realize how consistent he was at playing the puck + staying in game shape (aka avoiding injuries).

Roy and hasek were much better. Roy has more cups and a head to head win vs Brodeur in 2001. Haseks save pct at .922 is also significantly higher than Brodeurs at .912. Even Roy at .918 had a better save pct in Colorado. Roy played in the 80s when the offense was much more efficient.

Statistics say otherwise!

@@ripemall4548 There are basically 5 stat lines to consider for a goalie: Wins, Win %, Shutout, GAA and save %. Here are Brodeur's - Wins: 1st all time (691, which is 130 ahead of 2nd place) - Win %: 9th all time (0.585) - Shutout: 1st all time (125, which is 22 ahead of 2nd place) - GAA: 10th all time (2.24) - Save %: Somewhere between 40th and 60th (0.912, which is only 0.010 behind Hasek's best all time) He has every right to be considered a top 5 goalie all time based on stats alone. But you can also add 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina (+5 other nominations), 1 Calder, 2 gold medals and just for fun, most goals by a goalie, and 2nd all time for most points. Also skipping a few most seasons with [insert stat], most [insert stat] in a season, and other records.

Exactly, he's #1 in my books!

@@ripemall4548you had me for a second there

@@begineizer Save % is by far the most important of those personal stats for a goalie as the rest can largely be inflated by playing for strong teams (save% also can if team only gives up easy shots, clears rebounds, etc. but to a lesser extent.) Brodeur's save % has generally been average and .912 isn't really even close to Hasek's .922 for such massive sample sizes of their careers. That's why I've always considered him the most overrated goalie of all time though he does have the redeeming quality of remarkable longevity and consistency.

You haven't seen many games then...

@@KapitanPisoar1 Yeah, it's quite a controversial choice to say he's the best considering he has the most wins, most shutouts, and most goals, along with a solid 2.24 GAA and .912 SV% over a 22-season career. Add in four Vezina Trophy wins, three Stanley Cups, and two gold medals with Team Canada. Definitely not a great choice.

No one is saying Brodeur wasn't good, but to claim the trap system didn't greatly benefit his numbers is delusional. Shots against and scoring opporutinites for opposing offenses were at all time lows during his prime years in NJ.

@@brandonb.5304 his 5 best seasons came after trap tho. so guess again

guess again. it was after scott and niedemier left and end of trap defence he had his best seasons. many ppl still hold on to that fucked up myth

Roy and hasek were much better.

Brodeur's Devils teams during their prime consistently only allowed about 20 shots a game. It was their neutral zone trap that limited scoring opportunities and shots, which greatly benefitted his numbers. Unlike Roy and Hasek who face way more shots and scoring opportunities per game.

@@brandonb.5304 ohhh u mean like his top 5 seasons is without scot and niedemier and trap defence? i suggest u get a fucking clue there princess.

If you want a goalie to allow 6 goals in game 7 you should take Roy for sure :D

Hasek must be the luckiest guy in the world because he was very consistently lucky.

@@ABC-sc2ip you know when someone calls hasek lucky they know nothing about hockey. This dude above not placing Luongo/Price above all these old timers makes no sense. Even Tim Thomas did more than Benedict lmao.

I think you're forgetting some of the past Canadiens teams when it comes to best defenses.

Roy.

Wayne Gretzky is not a period.

If you are talking 80s Gretzky then probably Fuhr. If you are talking 90s Gretzky then probably Roy.

Hasek was far better

That's only true because today's goalies don't get the benefit of playing behind the neutral zone trap, the most effective defensive tactic ever at shutting down scoring opportunities. Brodeur was good, but he greatly benefitted from the defensive style played in front of him and the HOF defensemen he had on his team. Also, don't forget he played a lot of his career in the clutch and grab era where hooking and grabbing offensive players was basically allowed unless it was so egregious it caused the offensive player to trip and fall.

Flawed logic. Playing behind a defensive team helps GAA, not save%. Do you ever says "Scott Niedermeyer was not that good, he had Brodeur to back him up" ? Or "the Bulls must have been stacked they won six title in seven years... therefor MJ was overrated" ?

@MDogme Playing behind a solid defensive team absolutely helps save %. A better defense core will allow fewer breakaways, less 2 on 1's, and be much more efficient at keeping high percentage shots to a minimum (keep most shots to the outside, etc..).

I wouldn’t say a “stacked” team in front of him. I think it was a somewhat offensively challenged team that played a mind-numbing and boring assed style of defensive hockey. Not diminishing what Brodeur accomplished, but he had a lot of help in tbe neutral zone.

@oilersridersbluejays Well, we could debate the term "stacked" until we're dead. But that team won 3 cups in 8 years so... They were about as solid as it gets for the time.

Roy and hasek were much better.

@@alwillk 😄😆😄 keep smokin crack

Look at the boring ass trap team he played behind. I’m not denying the fact that he is one of the best goaltenders ever, but he definitely had help.

Sadly, couldn't agree more from another Orange & Black fan :-///

The mid/late 90s and early 2000s were NOT one of the highest scoring eras of all-time. His prime was during the clutch and grab era where defensemen literally hooking and grabbing onto offensive players was the norm and rarely called. The NHL also had to ban the neutral zone trap because it was so effective at limiting shots and scoring opportunities. Not sure what you're even talking about when you claim it was one of the highest scoring eras of all time, but that's just flat out false.

@@brandonb.5304 NJ was known for the dreaded "Neutral Zone Trap" and also I recall the Red WIngs were infamous for the "Left Wing Lock" which pretty much shut down the Fly-Guys when they got swept in the 1997 Cup Finals... As a fan I truly hated both styles!!!

@@brandonb.5304 5 players averaged more than a goal a game, all in the 80's and 90's so not sure what you are talking about. If you look up the top 10 season of most goals scored in the NHL they are all from the 80's and 90's, go ahead check I'll wait for the apology while you actually look at the numbers. Gretzky, Lemieux, Hull, Jagr, Selanne, Kurri, Yzerman, Bossy, hell Lanny McDonald scored 66 in 1983 but nice try.

Luongon won a lot of games on objectively bad teams. That counts. You don't need all the awards in the world to be a Hall of Famer. Luongo is like Lincecum in baseball. Great.

I'll concede Hasek but Roy had some fantastic defensive teams in front of him too. In Montreal in the 80s he had Chelios, an aging but still decent Larry Robinson, great 2 way forwards like Carboneau and Gainey. And in Colorado he had Foote and Blake and Bourque were bought in later on. That's not to disparage Roy, he was a legend. But I see ppl use the fact Brodeur had great defenses in front of him against him but not Roy. I watched alot of those New Jersey playoffs runs and Marty was fantastic in those games. And there were games he had to make more saves than 25. While New Jersey was better I would argue some of those groups Roy had were almost as good. Certainly that 01 Colorado d was fantastic. Hasek on the other hand was just amazing. He single handedly won games most nights.

​@@jbellflower83because Roy only had 1 and a quarter seasons with a 40+ year old Bourque and 2 and a quarter seasons with Rob Blake

Wrong, Hasek was greater

@@lordrevanz16 Brodeur holds literally every goalie record and, like I said, was single-handedly responsible for the only period of relevancy that the New Jersey Devils have ever had. Dominek Hasek was incredible, but he's never held the records or made the impact on the course of NHL history that Brodeur had.

@furioussherman7265 lol, Brodeur played on defensive minded Devils teams with Stevens and Niedermayer, playing the trap for over half his career. Brodeur never won the Vezina until Hasek retired the first time. Hasek has a significantly better save percentage, holds the record for Vezina wins, all won while Brodeur was also in his prime, is the only goalie to win the Hart twice, and won the Pearson twice voted by the players as the best player in the League, all while on garbage Sabres teams. If Hasek had been able to come over sooner, or was traded to Detroit sooner, there'd be no argument.

Hasek sv pct is significantly higher. .922 to .912. He also has 2 mvps which Brodeur has 0 and 6 vezinas to Brodeurs 4. Roy is even better than Brodeur.

@@lordrevanz16 i love how.01% is significant. out of 100000k shots thats a 1000 more saves. thats nothing. hasek also played a fuck ton less goals meaning 1 shutout affects his stats way more. haseks prime is better then brodeurs. but hasek had less 30+ wins than brodeur had 40+ wins. i my self think hasek is slightly above in his prime. but brodeur had a 14 year prime not 5 year prime.

If you think that what apply to all team was such a upside for a single team. That only speaks of his amazing stick handling skills. You make a good point, he was great!

u just made an argument for him. lol. having to change the rules to make it fair for others is the pinnacle of respect. and cowardice of the league.

Barely top 5...

100% spot on. Brodeur was good, but he wasn't some god in the net. It was the Devil's goddamn trap defense that made offenses want to just skate off the ice and give up. That neutral zone trap was the most frustrating thing to ever be invented in the game. And combining it with the clutching, hooking, and grabbing that was allowed in that era, it made scoring even one or two goals a rare occurrence. It was some of the most irritating hockey to watch.

@brandonb.5304 yes sir ! There is s guy on RU-vid that broke down Brodeurs stats through his career, and most of his stats weren't all that great. I think he had to be great when he needed to be, and I would go as far as saying clutch saves when needed. He still can't be in the conversation with people like Pat Roy, Ken Dryden, Bernie Parent, The Dominator, and the goalie from Russia in the 70s. That guy was a monster.

Brodeur is top 5 goalies all time. That's not even a convo. If you don't think he belongs top 5, you're just wrong. No convo here. You can say useless shit as long as you want, but Brodeur paved the way for modern butterfly.

@Goldeneye3336 If you're opinion is Brodeur is top 5 then excellent. Me or anyone else isn't going to change your opinion. However, what I will argue is your ignorant comments of "Brodeur Paved the way for modern day butterfly style goaltending." I'm sorry, guy, but you are completely wrong. First off Brodeur wasn't even considered as a butterfly goalie, he was considered a half stand up hybrid. Here is a very short butterfly style goalies that paved the way. Patrick Roy, Dominic Hasek, Vladislav Tretiak, Tony Esposito, Glenn Hall, and Terry Sawchuk. Patrick Roy and Hasek dominated as the greatest butterfly goalies to play the game. I'm not even arguing that Marty was definitely a great goalie, but as the response to the video, which claimed the rules were charged by Martain Brodeur, sadly, they were not. The trap system system was improved on by the Devils which spread to the Wings, who won back to back cups using the "left wing lock" 97-98. Despite scoring very little. Yes Brodeur is a great goalie, and no doubt should be in the HOF but the greatest goalie or even top 5, I dont think so .Roy, Hasek, Parent, Ken Dryden, Jaques Plante. So maybe it is you that should learn hockey more before speaking.

I would go Roy, Hasek brodeur. Roy played and won in the 80s which was a significantly more offensive era.

@@alwillk Yeah I never saw Roy in the 80s, or any hockey from the 80s for that matter. But I remember seeing Hasek as a kid during his peak, and to this day I’ve never seen anything like that. He is the most 1 of 1 athlete that I have ever seen. Obviously my take comes with a lot of context, and obviously the over all body of work is in Roy’s favour… but damn if 96-99 Hasek isn’t the apex of NHL goaltending.

That’s not true by any means pal hockey was exciting and thriving at full length in that era , far too many exceptional players to list

Wrong. People walked away after the lockout season. It wasn't because the hockey was boring. Hockey today is boring. Nothing more than a bunch of soccer players on ice, flip-flopping all over whenever they're touched.

I know you’re attempting a joke but southern Quebec isn’t really all that cold comparatively speaking compared to most other places in Canada. And water turns into ice when it freezes. Obviously you know this and was trying to make a joke, but it wasn’t funny.

It is pronounced martan and it's fine. Settle down. You're a nobody.

Naa Marty gifted it to them with his inability to stop a wrap around

Uhh, it was 3 cups in 8 years. You should be able to do basic math before you make a douchey comment "correcting" someone's video.

Because it’s pronounced “Mar-tan”, not “Mart-in”. The guy is French. Virtually every NHL announcer pronounced it “Mar-tan”. Most likely you were too young to watch the guy play so you didn’t know this.

@@oilersridersbluejays I’m new to hockey so I didn’t grow up watching anyone play actually lol

@@oilersridersbluejays So your attitude just carries over from comment to comment. A gem that goes on reddit lmao.

@@tifosistaymad583 Anyway they're clueless.

It’s pronounced “Mar-tan”. He’s French.

@@oilersridersbluejays welll its an english speaking league

@@mercurio822 That doesn't mean you don't pronounce a person's name how it's pronounced.

Tell me you suck without telling me. A good goalie will 100% win you games. ever hard about a goalie that ended up providing safety when you had a lead. You want that sort of goaltender. If your sole point is that they won't score goals, then all games end up being 0-0 in your silly reasoning. An all-time amateur perspective, goalie not winning games. My man hasn't seen good hockey in a while it appears.

In the cap era it's a dynasty considering how much parity there is in the league now

@plaidchuck it’s not a dynasty. 3 cups in 4 years is still the stipulation. You can’t just make stuff up…

@@oilersridersbluejays Didn't you just make that part up lmao. Using your behavior as something to flame someone else is ironic. You're not the sharpest tool in the shed let me tell ya.

Well, that system really came from Montreal. Robinson and Lemaire played on those legendary Montreal teams of the 70s who had maybe the greatest defense in NHL history with 3 HOF's on D. Lemaire brought that with him to New Jersey. I actually watched those Devils teams and was a fan. But I concede I'm a fan of Defense and great goaltending duels so I'm a bit weird in that regard.