How Honda Destroyed Themselves in MotoGP 

Yamaha is in the dumps too lol its just the Japanese way rossi had been complaining about the rear grip far before he retired

So basically MM93 was just too good that he carried the whole team until Honda became too far behind that even MM93 can’t ride it no more lol

Honda has long held the philosophy that the motorcycle matters most, not the rider. An HRC exec actually said "Riders are like lightbulbs, short lasting and easily replaced". Honda is responsible for where Honda is now.

Marc has been complaining about rear grip, engine character, engine braking, for ages. The same cal Crutchlow said that all the riders have the same feedback. The truth of the matter is that Honda never really got on top of the Michelin front, rear and the spec electronics. They were all about the front tyre and aggressive engines that could be tamed using electronics. Remember, Honda was using a screamer in 2016 with spec electronics. Michelins flipped the script on front/rear tyre relationship. Marc made the difference. What would you like him to do? Fail on purpose? Not try and win?

I'm a fan of your work usually, but mm was not the reason why they fucked up. The bike was not better than the 3rd best bike on the grid since 2017. Marc was just so insanely good, that he won championship's with a bike that other good rider's couldn't even bring into the top ten on a regular basis. Marc left honda because he, as he stated himself, realised that nothing they talked about with the technicians and engineers in the paddock was considered by the developing engineers in Japan. Rossi complained about the same thing with Yamaha since 2014. It's the Japanese way, coincidentally all the Japanese manufacturers are miles behind the European manufacturers.

I have a different theory about Honda. They didn't develop the bike around Marc. They just didn't develop the bike at all. They didn't know how. You can see that in the mess they've been since his crash. 3-4 years and they are just beginning to figure it out. So it's not Marc's fault.

0:38 You have no clue what you are talking about. Honda’s history has nothing to do with modern times because the whole landscape has changed. Focusing on Marquez didn’t ruin Honda. He prolonged it’s success for 8 years. Without Marquez there would have been no Honda champions from 2013. Honda was behind Yamaha and they didn’t have the will to invest in the sport like Ducati did. Honda was on it’s way out. You are just creating a narrative you want to see. Modern MotoGP winners are European factories because they are closer to the tracks and riders and they are willing to invest more time and energy into the projects. It makes zero difference if Honda is the biggest motorcycle manufacturer or how many championships they have won because they have left themselves behind. Same reason why Yamaha sucks now. The winning recipe has changed.

Honda and Yamaha knew changes is coming in 2027, in new regulations and engine configurations. It's really not worth it to invest more in 2024-2026 knowing that the best riders are with Ducati, Aprilia and KTM.

Dont blame marquez for the mistake honda did... they paused the development for their bike. That not marquez fault... their bike was hard to ride other riders are struggling but still marquez still moves forward with their bike taking championships after championships.. and even now With GP23 which is less powerful bike than the GP24, still Marc takes ahead the GP23 leaving other GP23 riders behind.. so stop blaming him for the mistakes he have not done, Vale had done enough damages to him already... Marc is one of a kind rider.. he is a legend and he will keep going up...

Honda biggest mistake was letting Pedrosa go

Wasn’t Marc’s fault he was just doing his job and Honda was only listening to Marc which gave Marc more confidence and ruined all the other teammates. What Honda should of done was listen to both riders and make both bikes for both of the riders instead of updating all the bikes just for Marc

Meanwhile in motocross, Honda makes bikes for Tim Gajser, to the point that this season not only do they not have any client teams, they didn't even bother to sign up a second rider for the factory one.

LCR satellite team is doing way better than Repsol team

Basically, Honda was never as fast a bike as Marc made it look. They were just riding the Marc wave relying on his generational talent to get them through. But eventually, I got too much even for Marc, he's a human after all, he needs at something from machine.

Honda destroyed itself when they decided to accomodate just 1 rider's racing style instead of keeping developing a balanced bike like they've always done before.

Marc is currently 6 places ahead and double the points of the next GP23. So what? The GP23 was "made for him"? This is the stupidest argument I have heard. There was not a single GP23 lapping within two seconds a lap of Marc today.

So how is it MM falut if the company didn't upgrade or listen to their rides!

1) Japan had strict Covid lockdowns and due to this both Honda and Yamaha suffered. For Honda, their star rider was not available and it made things worse 2) Honda still doesn't have a research facility or engineering wing in Europe. they need european engineers but nobody wants to go to Japan to work for Honda. Even Yamaha has engine development in Europe now. 3) Honda started to listen to other riders and made the 2022 bike. it was a complete disaster and even nakagami recently said that. even marc was not able to ride that shitbox, which led to very poor performance in 22,23 and now. 4) 2027 regulations are on its way and now only few resources will be directed to current spec bike. Honda hopes the regulations will help them. 5) One of the main reason is increadible progress in rear tyre and still a shit front tyre from michelin. Honda and the rest used to use more front tyre and less rear for braking, meanwhile ducs use the rear. now ducs have the advantage because of great rear tyre and others have less advantage because of not so great front. 6) also the standardised ECU from 2015 helped the ducs more because it was the ECU they were already using. Honda had the best electronics but this regulation took away their advantage. Marc was having poor performance in 2015. So all in all I think the reason for fall of Honda is all these issues. Marc was the only reason they could win these many because he was able to ride around the problems. Honda was not the perfect or dominant machine everyone wants to believe, Marc gave us the illusion that everything was fine but he was the one compensating for all the shit Honda did.

It is somewhat reminiscent of what Stoner did at Ducati. It seemed like he was the only guy who could work with their bike. Even seasoned teammates like Capirossi struggled badly. Then Stoner switched to Honda and won the championship immediately. Ducati kept struggling for some time, even when VR46 joined them. Their bikes were objectively shit. And then they turned it around rather suddenly without any super talented rider. I'm looking forward to some MotoGP history book written in the future that explains how that happened. I wouldn't write Honda off. Who knows what they can do with the next big change in rules.

So rather than fixing the problems, Marquez was able to ride around them. This is why manufacturers should listen to the lowest placed of their riders, not the highest. When he left, the bike was worse than he found it.

Schumacher and Hamilton managed to win championships with different Teams. It took 5 years for Schumacher to improve Ferrari until it was a winnig team. Dani was the one who did all the work behind the scenes, and you can see it on how KTM improved as soon as he joined them.

I think honda relied on mm93 too much. If you would have told me 7yrs ago honda and yamaha would be behind ktm and aprilia in motogp in the future i would have laughed in your face.

the same can be said for fabio in yamaha...where he thought having more top speed would be enough to win races meanwhile other riders complaining about rear grip and acceleration out of corner

Man you need to put more time in research, half baked knowledge is quite dangerous. MM was already complaining about bike from 2015 onwards. It was notoriously difficult than only few can ride. When he stepped on bike for the 2020 testing he outrightly pointed out the flaws of the bike. But for 2022 they listened the Pol espargo so that everyone can ride the bike and this is where things went south way. Honda lost its main strength and even Nakagami admitted 2022 was the season where Honda completely lost its plot. And guess what for 2022 bike development MM was not available due to surgery.

It's like teaching new players on how to shot threes with Curry's style instead of Klay's fundamentals.

They’re gonna have to hope they get the 2027 regulations right, and other teams don’t adapt to them as easily. IMO that’s their best chance to be competitive again. Keep the vids coming!

I don't think Honda wants to make a big investment right now. They are waiting for new regulation in 2027 I guess.

Honda has always had poor handling bikes yet they won titles by hiring the best riders. Interestingly, Honda's WSBK team riders complain about the same issues as their MotoGP riders.

sounds similar to what redbull doing in the formula one to make the car more compatible to verstappen driving style as other drivers struggle with the cars extremely pointy front end which verstappen prefers

HRC not molding the bike around Rossi is a big reason he went to Yamaha. Yamaha agreed to so that for Rossi.

You Ignored CORONA completely...

I think that Honda went to shit the moment Persosa went to KTM...

One of the main reasons why Honda and Yamaha are lagging behind the Ducati and KTM are aerodynamics. These Japanese manufacturers are always budget conscious. Developing and perfecting the aero on current motogp bikes are expensive. Once the teams get the aero principle wrong, they are back to the drawing board. F1 is a perfect example. Williams with the same engine package as Mercedes and McLaren are lagging behind due to inferior aero. KTM warned FIM about legalising aero on motogp which would lead to upward spending on aero development. Honda and Yamaha wanted racing to be purely man and machine and didn’t want to spend additional on extensive aero development. That’s the main reason they are behind today.

at the end, I am not disappointed. They were superior in many years. "Change" allows other manufactures to stand up.

Yamaha is in a mess too, top end speed and rear grip has been a problem for them .Rossi said it wayyy back then

MM93 made the Honda win and when he went down after the crash so did Honda, Honda was delusional especially about electronics and aeros that led to their utter failure

I don’t agree with this video. Yamaha is struggling also and they never had a Marquez… Japanese factories withdraw from motorsport competition year by year. Young people don’t care about motorcycles. It’s sth dangerous for them. Superbikes have died a decade ago. Large factories like Suzuki, Honda, Yamaha and Kawasaki have realised that. Japanese factories will stop racing altogether in a few years.

Yamaha are down in the dumps too. Developing the bike around 1 rider is just not the right strategy anymore.

MM93 is not the reason. Asian bikes can't cope with Ducati/KTM bikes. It's the bike; Yamaha, Honda; and even Kawasaki in WSBK.

While I disagree with you - your own research, comments, analysis still have my respect and gratitude. Nothing wrong with having different opinions and it’s actually fun if you we don’t argue about it. You’ve earned a subscriber! I think MM is one of these transcendent talents like the late Jim Clark was in F1 back in the 60s. Just not as much of a gentleman though, but nevertheless instinctive, talented, ferociously competitive but most of all- Relentless!!

Technically, Marc was too good that Honda didn't tried to fix anything until it's all too late?

I could care less that they're down in MotoGP because they're back in motocross. All the money they wasted in MotoGP is being spent in motocross again and they're winning in America in MXGP. The only class they're not winning in is MX2 which they've never cared about unless they have a good rider like Gajser or Hunter.

Every honda rider had complaints since 2014. Marc destroyed the bike! He openly admitted to sabotaging the development that Pedrosa wanted. He also said he wanted the fastest bike, not the easiest. Pedrosa left and took a bike that never had a dry podium to its first dry win in under 12 months! After Marcs crash in 2020 Simon Crafar even asked Alberto Puig, "do you regret putting all your eggs in 1 basket" puig said that he was winning ofcourse we listened to him!!! Marc cant develop bikes. You can't tell me the most successful manufacturer has all of a sudden forgotten how to win!

You didnt watch motogp. Since 2013, only marquez and Pedrosa could ride that bike. And the others who tried and failed arent some second hand guys, it was Lorenzo, Espargaro, Mir, Rins... Even pedrosa couldnt do well since 2018. In 2019, when marc maybe had the greatest season ever, the other guys (crutchlow, nakagami, lorenzo) finished 9th, 13th, 19th in the standings. Marc was just the purest racer of all time, a mistakefree animal with the greatest one lap pace by far. Without his injuries, je would not have stopped winning titles in 2020 on that Honda

Awesome video, well done

the thing with motogp, it has always been about man and machine. A tool can only be as good as the man behind it. Something Japanese manufacturers have always downplayed in their philosophy.

we want a similar video on yamaha's situation as well

Honda should listen to all its riders

Kawasaki make some of the best street sportsbikes, and its probably because they left MotoGP and focused on WSB which they owned for the last decade.

now even Repsol left Honda

This reminds me of how Red Bull are falling off in F1

Nakagami has revealed in one of the interviews what I had personally suspected. The disaster for Honda began in 2022, when they developed a package to optimize for rear grip. The actual advantage of RC213V was in front end stability. This front end bias is why Marquez always ran harder compound. Even in 2021 he won thrice with an injured arm. But, other riders insisted that they couldn't perform due to low rear grip and Honda relented under their feedback. Most likely, they would be back in 2027.

Awesome video Dan!

They are struggling in the world superbike championship as well, same with Yamaha.

Could you make similar analysis about Yamaha as well?

Buddy is saying as if Ducati was great from get away. After Casey left they struggled a lot. Even Rossi couldn't help them build a machine. Everyone has a cycle of dominance and this time it's Ducati's that's it

Honda in MotoGP from 2000 to 2019: 📈 Honda in MotoGP since Marc Marquez's NEAR FATAL CRASH in 2020 till Marini and Mir joining Honda in 2024: 📉📉📉

Marc Marquez is just too good cause only he can ride and win on a difficult bike

2:45 Tamiya detected

We’re gonna have to wait til 2027 for them to be semi competitive sadly

honda needs to learn the art of imperfection.

Honda could be leaving MotoGP altogether in 2027 if they cant improve their result beginning from 2025...

Logistics during global lockdown also didn't help the Japanese teams.

By focusing on a rider, who wasnt a great developer of a bike... Other than the driver, he cost the 10th title... Rossi has proven so hard, that Honda was MotoGP Champion because of him, not the bike...

I would like to point out that the back marker pace of the current year would be the winning pace of the previous year. And so on until you hit 2020. So Honda/Yamaha are innovating and becoming much faster. They are not standing still.

The reason Honda is so bad this day's is because Danny Pedrosa left and went to KTM. He is the best test rider. How good is KTM now and how bad Honda is. This is not a coincidence. He was doing all the development work in Honda so Marc Marquez can win.

Honda Was shit from 2015 but marc marquez carry them , You just blame marquez for Honda Failure?

Marquez carried Honda But now they have the worse machines they used now

This is a normal cycle, manufacturers come and go, the most important thing you did not talk about is regulations, the FIM keeps changing them and the teams must must find ways, parts... to at least stay competitive, we also see this in F1 , so nothing new, don't forget that yamaha are nowhere near the top and that no manufacturer is challeging ducati now, just like honda in the old days, and don't forget that it took ducati more than a decade to be dominant. Honda's dominance is still unmatched and things change very quickly nowadays...

It’s interesting that Honda is so slavish to their culture that while they were giving the best rider (arguably) on the grid a bike that just got worse and worse until even HE couldn’t ride it, that they just sat there and watched their competitiveness diminish and did nothing. How did they get to a place where they watched Ducati innovate and make changes and keep making changes until now they have the almighty GP24 (&23) and the entire time Honda slow-walked any changes they might’ve had which would help them. It’ll be interesting to see what they come up with for the rules changes, and after having the benefit of full concessions.

Simply we don't want them.

Yamaha’s problems are MM93’s fault too

Well.. Marc wasn't riding the yamaha bike that took the same shitty development path.

Marc was soo good that honda ( japan ) didn't bother to listen to anyone and redbull ktm hiring hrc's lead engineer and dani the best test rider ever didn't help either, and when marc had that major accident in 2020 everything went side ways with no real talent to show results or develop the bike, marc came back in 21 and won but that was all marc no other honda was even close, even last season marc wasw the only one with balls big enough to push that honda

...click bait.. but i hate click bates of these kind.. ..and therefore, will click on never recomend this video again...what a dumb thing to say and insinuate that Marc is guilty.... There is no one like Marc, but now, the aim is 2027 new rules.. agree only the time development wasted, also because Honda, but also development skills of the other Honda riders, while Marc was recovering..

Pulling the 211v out of storage would be a good start. It was the last bike that was dominate and the last bike to do so without looking like a bag of smashed assholes with wings on it.

It's just the issue of honda.. Not the rider.. If it was about the rider, then Marc wouldn't have be in 3rd place on a 1 yr old bike with back to back gp victories.. Even ahead of Ducati factory rider

2027 850cc, all team will be reset again

Im sorry but it has to be way more than the Marc's fault theory that makes ZERO sense to me in fact. How about whoever is running things just SUCKS....sucks COMPARED to better teams. I bet it is all internal politics of whos in charge who they trust and who they dont ditto Yamaha

great content!

They relied on one man to much and absolute legend who papered over the cracks of there shitty bike and production and antiquated ways of doing things

See the Japanese issues is that they don't believe in fixing things that are not broken.but in moto racing you need to evolve or you would be left like this

it easily to blame marc. but if king of motogp dropped 20+millions contract and join gresini, a private team with old year ducati bike. there must be something wrong that even marc gave up his hope. marc is one of the best rider ever in motogp history. he made a lot of record. he singlehandedly gave constructor title to honda. with bike that very very hard to ride. now he won 2 races back to back with lesser machinery. and he will joined factory ducati in 2025. hope he can win again. its basically so boring without him. seeing enea take some distance to pecco in misano race because he dont want to "get into trouble later" disgust me. there should be more like marc marquez. take race as it is.

Honda and other Japanese manufacturers suck at aero tech upgrading and they don't adapt to change quickly anymore, be it racing or mass production. That's something Ducati KTM and other European manufacturers excel at.

I think Honda, Yamaha need to go out in MotoGP like Kawasaki and Suzuki. Its a waste of time and money. Still japanese brands are the best selling motorcycle in the world.

Honda in motogp just for fun ride only not fight for a champion. They only focus on worldwide selling motorbikes

Look problem is much more than slow Honda development, if you take a look Yamaha is in same situation...if we add that Suzuki withdraw from championship exactly year before "everything went to shit" for Japanese brands, it may not be really anything to do with development of bikes it may really be about some technical rules that changed in MotoGP. And while Ducati was so-so, Aprilia and KTM were nowhere on the radar, and basically over night they are all better than Japanese bikes?!? Also road bikes, 1000cc class they are not behind at all, all Japanese brands are there, ok Ducati looks better than any other bike but they charge extra for that :P. So answer can Honda & Yamaha be great again we are not gonna get until 2027 (i think) when bikes get smaller engines in other words they will be built from scratch...

Honda don't care about their motogp team's feedback then imagine do they care about mass selling products 😂. Awful attitude

sorry but this couldve been an email if you skip to story before Marquez.

WMD2196 IS SPOT ON. EURO ENGINEERS EURO BIKES HAVE BEEN SUPERIOR TO JAPANESE ENGINEERS/BIKES FOR A DECADEW RACE BIKES AND PRODUCTION BIKES . EURO BIKES HAVE WON EVERY COMPARISON IN PRODUCTION BIKES FOR 17 YEARS STRAIT NOW . SORRY CAPS COMPUTER FOUL UP

Can you explain Yamaha Problem?

thats unfortunately the Japanese philosopy not risk to much, first it must be reliable and second Honda must understand it what they did and that takes time and if it not works, they try it again and again and again.

The other teams have more powerful engines and better riders.

The more power the engine gets the harder to get grip and more at lean angles the Japanese bikes are years away in the electronics and ride height devises 😅 when you have a really talented rider u can get away with a bad bike like Casey stoner did with the Ducati. If the rider ask for more engine power, ridability is gone 😅

v rossi was a honda main boy..dnt forget....

Japanesse HQ need to see ford v ferrari movie.

Honda is honda..time will tell

Unless Marquez can adapt to Ducati, Ducati will have to adapt to Marquez. If it's the later, Ducati will suffer the same downfall as Honda. Marquez is the only one who can ride a bike as he wants it. If he gets injured after Ducati has developed the bike as he wants then it'll be just like it was with Honda.

Sources?

It's not about brands it is about the rider.