jyggalag is the most powerfull villian you ever face in any elder scrolls game. all the gods and deadra feared him and were jelous of his power and the willpower he had to do the impposible
I come back to this guy at least once a year to rub in that he was wrong about me not being able to beat up Jyggalag and then beat him up with the same stuff I used to beat up Jyggalag, I imagine that got way worse when my tiny overly shampooed Dunmer completely mantled Sheogorath. Every year I also add a bone to the bone pile I placed outside of Jayred Ice-Veins' house after the Gatekeeper flicked him onto the big wall like a wet towel and broke his ass bone and killed him, it's mildly upsetting that he didn't have a Tombstone iike the people in New Sheoth so I just leave a game-crashing bone pile there now
So basically Jyggalag calculated every possible scenarios in existence. And the Other Princes beat the crap out of him because he was a nerd. Damn, too bad he didn't predict that scenario.
Maybe he had predicted it, but it was destined to happen, so Jyggalag was powerless to stop it. From what the librarian suggests - the daedric prince believed that everything goes according to the formulae, everything is deterministic. That's why Sheogorath was so vehemently against the idea - he believed that the future isn't set in stone and our choices can shape it. At least that's my take.
@@praisemidir You don't defeat him, you release him. By defeating Jyggalagg you mantle Sheogorath, meaning that Jyggalag is free from the curse of becoming Sheogorath and as such is free to return to his order mongering.
"My individuality and history is no more important than a stone on the ground" "So anyway, I used to serve a literal God and had access to knowledge about other Gods"
this guy also appearantly knows the formula as well i think ? since he predicts alot of the event of the shivering isles and even tells you exactly how to make a new staff of sheogorath i believe (kinda forgot what actually happened). which even sheogorath didnt know how to
I'm sure a president would have a computer where he conducts political business on. should such a computer go into history? because Dyus is just that, a mere tool of a powerful being.
I definitely take your point, but I am compelled to say that an AI running sims, while helpful and interesting, is not the same thing as actual history/knowledge. That being said, I am 100% sure H Mora would want this library :P
I think Hermaeus would also have come to the same conclusions Jyggalag did if everything was to work out as intended, but with the existence of multiple possible outcomes (a concept Jyggalag denied the existence of) and how knowledge is more than just “what has happened and what will happen”, he wouldn’t be too impressed; however, he probably was be extremely pissed off when Sheogorath destroyed the library, as Hermaeus despises ignorance, and (if I had to guess) especially willful ignorance.
I would NOT be surprised if Mora pilfered the library to add to Apocrypha. He probably didn't get it all, but I can't see him not snagging a few tomes here and there, especially those pertaining to himself, while they were cursing the ol' crystal man.
Lmfao yeah. sheogorath clowned on hircine and Vaermina the goddess of nightmares. he beats them all in mindgames after he turns mad XD. and he also nukes morrwind by casually summoning a metoar (NO daedric prince can do something like this in the mortal world since like 99% of their power is sealed) so that tells you that even with like 1% of his power sheogorath is still OP af more than any other prince. its just that him being a madman makes him have no interest in waging war or defeating the other princes. he just likes to mess with the daedric princes themselves and troll them or do the same on mortals XDD
Sheogorath pranking them and screwing with the mortals is much more preferable to Jyggalag invading their realms and conquering their lands. Though now they have to deal with Sheogorath AND Jyggalag running around oblivion which would be much worse for them and hell, they may even be allies now
what i find interesting is sheogorath seems to have the deduction and divining powers that jyggalag has so the deadric princes plan has made life 100% worse for everyone because now instead of one omniscient deadric prince there are two they duplicated the problem@@oneverymadlad1124
Jyggalag is such a tragic villain. Forced to turn into someone completely opposite of him and stay in that form for 1,000 years only to become himself for a short time then turn back into the opposite being for another 1,000 years in a never-ending cycle curse. The only way to break the curse is for a champion to defeat Jyggalag in his true form in fair combat. It's just such a tragedy for him.
I really like the Librarian's voice actor; he really gets across the fact that he's been sitting in this room, completely alone, for hundreds if not thousands of years, and can't even enjoy this brief moment when his freedom is returned and a visitor comes... because he's known it's been coming for as long as he's been in the room. He's probably gone over this moment a million times in his head, every permutation, to the point that he's not even talking to YOU, he's just reciting a script that he's refined and iterated more times than the seconds in your lifespan. If he was a lesser mind, he'd have gone mad long ago. Of course, his master Jyggalag is unfortunately the disappointment: all he does is peace out the second you beat his avatar, saying that he's free of the cycle since you mantle Sheogorath... and then he just completely exits the story of the Elder Scrolls, because even centuries later there's been no word of him at all.
@@praisemidir Of course, the Elder Scrolls mythology being what it is, Jyggalag could just pop back into existence at any time to become the antagonist, on account of the game being at least partially aware of it's meta nature as unreality. Somewhere out there, probably in the same meta-reality, Vivec is just messing around with his powers, since he freed himself of the limitations of a physical plane. Not dead, just gone to some place we don't know about.
Tbh, this was proven his formula wasn't perfect, and choice did matter. Because if he truly could predict every action, he would have predicted his siblings all coming together as one to curse him and prevented it.
Maybe he did predict it, and maybe he let it happen. Maybe he predicted that his own perfect logic would ultimately destroy everything and that it was only logical to let himself be destroyed temporarily.
"blah blah blah oblivions dialogue is terrible" dude oblivions dialogue was a masterpiece. Besides the little goofs of random npcs talking to each other AI wise, it was supremely excellent.
Could have been worse for Sheo. The princes simply turned him into the oppisite of what he was.. Unlike as we learned from ESO poor old daedric prince Ithelia who had all knowledge of her existence erased and was removed from existence
Jyggalag had ultimate understanding of order and logic so he used it to organize all information and deduct the past present and future. He is symmetrical and pure, he does not need to learn, only to cast his formula and predict. Hermaeus Mora on the other hand is filled with eyes and tentacles and an asymmetrical shape he uses inductive reasoning, hoarding knowledge and observing everything which is why he entered the skaal chief's mind to add his experiences to apocrypha.
Ah, the good ol' reverse psychology practitioner, Deus. Jyggalag would've been very proud of him if this wasn't something they both foresaw thousands of years ago.
All things considered, Sheogorath might have burned down the library just be cause he felt like it at the time. And I can’t take it very seriously if this all deducing libary could not predict what was going to happen to Jyggalad. Or it did and he just did jack because he was a determinist.
"The Sheogorath from Skyrim isn't your character from Oblivion!" Yes he is. "Explain then." Hero of Kvatch: Yup-dee-duh! Huddle-de-de! Woah, wait, my bones feel funny- * Explodes into a fine red mist. * Lil' Sheo: I'm Sheogorath! "I fucking hate how every bit of that could be canon . . ."
I feel it should be mentioned that Jyggalag's version of future seeing is very similar to the Norns in GoW Ragnarok. The only reason he can predict things so well is because so many beings are predictable, even the daedra. However, if someone like the pc comes along and beats literally every odd you can imagine it proves his formula is inaccurate, Such as when Dyus thinks you'll die if you fight him but you end up becoming the new Sheogorath. Just my thinking on it.
Jyggalag sure is mighty, wow 😊 Skyrim is one of my favs - you have a good taste, sir! Looking forward to the next Elder Scrolls (VI) game. Gonna rock. Thanks for sharing!
He didn't beat every Prince. He was a precedent they were concerned about. He didn't overpower all the princes combined they were worrked that in time he would become too much of a threat
He was taking over their planes of oblivion as his Greymarch did over the Shivering Isles. Had they not acted collectively, Jyggalag would have rolled over them like a wave.
@@couldntthinkofacoolname9608 Incorrect, Oblivion is infinite. His territory was growing larger than the other Princes, but he in no way was invading the others' realms.
Jyggalag is undoubtly supperior to Batman even without prep time.I mean the touch his sword allows mortals to simultaneously see past,present and future as one.
Could Jyggalag predict who would achieve CHIM or the other Walking Ways in the current Kalpa? I have a hypothesis that certain Anuic and Padomaic beings crystalize to guard or stand as obstacles against too many mortals achieving CHIM or lesser apotheosis like Ebonarm, Sai, or Mannimarco. However, questions remain for how "knowledgable" beings like Julianos/Jhunal, Hermaeus Mora, Mephala, and Jyggalag don't zero-sum. Positioning within the wheel of the Aurbis matters quite a lot (hence a related hypothesis about how the synthesis nature of Tiber Septim as Dragonborn and possible Shezzarine relates to the extraction of the Heart of Lorkhan at Convention as well as how the Heart structures time by limiting Akatosh and hides a "Secret Tower" that Vivec used later). Hmm, trawling semi-canonical sources could take some time ...
considering he predicted the rise of tiber septim i assume he means he also predicted him achieving godhood. if tiber did it by chim then i assume so yes. those semi canon sources are also always fun ! even if they aent cannon nowdays its due to change of writers i bet. so once upon a time they were canon
In order for him to predict someone achieving CHIM he would need to understand what it is first, and that would necessitate/cause him to achieve Chim as well. If they were ever going to tackle this I'm sure they would make up some cheap BS about Chim being a mortal thing only because there's some sort of "inherent quality" about being a mortal that allows that to happen. Sort of like how dragons get temporarily stunned by being forced to comprehend mortality even though it makes no sense for a superior, highly intelligent, immortal, semi godly being with a language that can communicate entire sentences with just two or three words to even be fazed by that since, if they really are that intelligent it means they already know and comprehend mortality. Otherwise, "the concept of mortality being so foreign to them that they drop to the ground" only means they're d*mb. I'd hate it if they made it so that you need to be a mortal to achieve Chim because of something similar, like "going from such a puny understanding of your limitations in the mortal realm to chim makes it possible to achieve godhood which is why gods can't achieve it" I'd much rather a super powerful padomaic being gatekept achieving CHIM and conspired to make it so that only mortals could achieve it, or that all gods already know their place in the cosmic stage but they just can't achieve Chim just cause. Seriously it makes absolutely no sense that a mortal can achieve that but not even Hermaeus Mora with all of his knowledge and wisdom can.
maybe it takes something more than knowledge ? like a certain mentality. when you meet the breton form of talos he speaks really wise and kinda high. reminds me of vivic (idk if vivec really achieved chim) idk much about the lore but i always thought of it as some (sage) kind of thing. where it speaks more about the persons willpower and mentality. but thats just because i like that little iidea of it@@norielsylvire
also yeah true he would need to understand how it works. remember molag bal telling vivec about chim though ? i think maybe it needs more than just knowledge. like hermous mora might know the method to it. but it requires a certain sage like mentality and willpower maybe ? more personality based conditions @@norielsylvire
@@praisemidir could be. But still, if the daedra or aedra know about it, wouldn't it be reflected in their behaviour somehow? Like if I knew there was a way to become so much more powerful I'd look for a way to achieve it, and would be frustrated if I couldn't do it for thousands of years, that frustration would shape my personality into a bitter, spiteful guy. Also, I'd talk about it more often than just fleeting mentions. Plus, I'm not an expert but I think Chim involves a measure of breaking the 4th wall and knowing you're in a videogame, no? In which case, that would also shape my personality and make me value everything less.
I am of the opinion that jyggalag was always insane, daedra, prince or lesser are padomaic, hence, chaotic, jyggalag is going against his very nature, perhaps the other princes just showed to him the madness of his self.
Are all padomaic entities chaotic? If so, is Meridia also defying her nature, or is she not truly a Daedra in the first place? Or is she chaotic in a way I don't understand? I'm not well-versed in the lore. Can you help me understand?
@@ChadVulpes she wasn't a daedra originally, but a magna-ge, but she was, hmm, I'm not sure how to describe, banished from the magnus' children by necessitating the creation or rather transformation of mehrunes dagon from the cursed leaper demon king, akin to malacath, she only assume the title of daedric prince, but in reality she's incredibly anuic, and note that magna-ge is anuic, daedra is padomaic, and aedra is the combination of anuic and padomaic
I just back again playing shovering isles and seeing this scenes.. And wondering,does The Great Library Of Order/Jyggalag..Knowledge even rival to The Elder Scrolls themselves?. I know it's just a lot of logical prediction but as schmeep said the prediction always solid and occurs to what next event of Mundus going to happens.. ☕🧐
i assume yeah. there is a reason all of the daedric princes ganged up on him. he was a serious balance breaker threat and could take over everything given time
@@praisemidir Yeah that prince really something different than the other prince.Even genius like Sotha Sil admire The Grey Prince saying : "Than any other princes,The Grey Prince Of Order knew his true nature". Also it's ridiculous he doesn't need any worshipper or cult to gain more power he just need "Time" no wonder the other princes fears him.. That's why Jyggalag/GigaChadlag 😂 it's my favorite alongside with Sheogorath. ☕ Btw my Oblivion Build is just full enchanted gear and little bit conjuration,cuz well conjuration always OP no what Elder Scrolls games 🐴😂
its kinda dumb but the climax of the dlc is proving jyggalag wrong. proving to him that an individuals personal choice mortal or daedra cant be predicted and controlled which is what sheogorath believes in
@@JarenLemonMore ironic He keeps doing the same thing over and over expecting a result, but He always fails. In a way, the Princes show Jyggalag was mad to begin with.
@@Vanerov Your definition of madness is shallow. The "doing things over and over" is (falsely) attributed to Einstein because it's the opposite of the scientific approach(that changing factors changes results). It's the opposite of intellect - it's stupid. But conventional stupidity is not a sign of madness. Order can be trolish and stupid, but in the end it contains some kind of logic. If it doesn't, it's simply not order. He's just making a mistake by thinking he can understand everything(including madness itself), and therefore predict it. What I'm getting at is that Jyggalag is ill-informed, not mad.
So tell me after beating the prince of destruction we beat the prince of order and then became the prince of madness. Yeah truly the whole game is madness. Like a story that Sheogorath would tell in a family friendly dinner at the blue palace.
funny because thats how he actually does it according to sheogorath XD he runs at full speed and cuts everything down with a gaint greatsword. a brutish way to settle things. but also the most order like way in a way
I think he had predicted to be beaten by other princes at some point. And I think this was his weakness. Knowing everthing that has happen and will happen, he probably thought there was nothing to do about the other princes teaming up against him and cursing him. Thus, his absolute knowledge that made him so powerful also was his downfall. At least, that's my interpretation.
Something about Jyggalag's story never added up to me. The only source of information we have on him is from people directly involved with him, i.e. Sheo, Jyggalag himself, and this fanboy who's wrong about everything else. Not one source of information from outside the madhouse. We're not off to a great start. If Jyggalag was so powerful and predicted the logical outcome of every possible action, how did he not realize trying to create perfect order in Oblivion was a futile endeavor? How did he not predict the other Princes would stop him? Hell, you honestly expect me to believe that the other Princes would ever team up over something? You expect Molag Bal and Meridia to set aside their beef? Malacath and Boethiah?? And why curse him with madness? Mora has the nymics of every daedra ever and he's used that information to erase a prince from existence before. Why not do it here if Jyggalag was such a problem? And the curse itself? Jyggalag comes back at the end of every era, greymarches all over the place, the goes back to being Sheogorath. Number of things wrong here: First, time doesn't exist in Oblivion; Haskill says as much. So why does the curse abide by an arbitrary mortal separation of a force that doesn't exist within Oblivion? And the Champion of Cyrodiil "breaking" the curse? You're going to tell me _a mortal_ defeated _the most powerful daedric prince_ in battle _in his own realm?_ Yeah, sure buddy. And now, Jyggalag has supposedly been free from the curse for the last 200 years and hasn't decided to show his face once? He wouldn't have an interest in aligning himself with, say, the Last Dragonborn, the most powerful being on Tamriel? Having someone like that as a champion would certainly be worthwhile for a Prince seeking to reestablish himself. No. All of this can only lead me to one conclusion: Jyggalag isn't real. He never was. I believe the whole thing was an elaborate prank by Sheogorath on the Champion of Cyrodiil. Exploit his/her hero complex with a fake story about saving the Shivering Isles from destruction by vanquishing a living god. And as the _coup de grâce,_ that ultimate feat of prowess grants the Champion lordship over the lands he saved. He becomes the new Sheogorath...or so he thinks. Imagine, if you will, a visitor to the Shivering Isles. This visitor meets with the locals, talks to them. One person in particular is convinced _he_ is Sheogorath. He tells you the story of how the old Sheogorath was once a Prince called J-something -- a strange name no one has ever heard of before. His story ends with him defeating J in a climactic duel and then taking his place as the new ruler of this land. This poor fool. He's clearly just as insane and delusional as everyone else in the Asylum, perhaps even more so. The visitor then meets the actual Sheogorath and asks about the crazy false Sheo. Sheogorath laughs. He's quite proud of that scheme.
He is mentioned in one of the elder scroll books in the older games iirc. Either daggerfall or morrrwind. but only a mention in name if you look up the wiki. which is odd in itself and makes you wonder about who created the book
I think the idea may be that jyagalag did predict most predictable things. The princess teaming up together? That is madness and wouldn't have been predicted, cause they would never do that right? That is the failure of jyagalag. They can have their perfect order but when things happen things happen and predictions can't account for everything, a hidden variable like all the princess deciding to help eachother to put you down, or a player character/chim user comes around.
@@praisemidirBasically He had the knowledge and intelligence of Hermaeus Mora and was OP enough to be confronted by all the Princes, who literally just worked together to merely curse Him. He's insanely OP. To put that into perspective, Boethiah was capable of affecting Trinimac, the strongest Aedra who defeated Lorkhan in one of the interpretations. He also can just give objects to mortals that allow them to reveal the unknown and make them feel insignificiant in their knowledge of the Planes, all for jokes. In one story I read, on the Imperial Library website to read all the in-game lorebooks. The Daedric Princes are aware He is among the most powerful among them. Vaermina and Sheogorath made a bet, a bit later on She told Him: "The Madgod is indeed powerful, but this task is suited to my skills. The mortals are repulsed by madness, but rarely think it worthy of hate. I shall take pleasure in revealing this to you, as I bring the more subtle horrors out of this mortal's subconscious." Accords of Madness. Then they met again, She got mad, and ragequitted pretty much. Lol
In one story I read, on the Imperial Library website to read all the in-game lorebooks. The Daedric Princes are aware He is among the most powerful among them. can you please tell me which story is that. i would love to read it, or do you just mean the vaermina one @@Vanerov
