1. 1930s Some swing orchestra with (among a lot of brass and rythm section) a dude and a dreadnought. Orchestra plays fully acoustic at full volume. Nobody can hear the guitar. When nobody hears the guitar, we don't need it. 2. Enter the frying pan and modified jazz guitars and a decent amplifier. Ok, we keep the guitar dude. He seems to have some cool musical ideas. 3. We don't need the brass anymore (besides some background brass now and then). Leo and Jim made us some nice loud guitar and bass amps. Finally we are louder than the drums. 4. WTF I need bigger drums! (John Bonham 1969) Orchestras have always been freaking loud. Even a chamber quartet is above 90dB. Music has been a physical experience before the invention of the RCA amplifier circuit.
anyone who has listened to a beginner violinist can attest to the fact that classical instruments are loud. I wonder if a lot of the greatest symphonies would have been written if they were quieter
Great comment. I'm a musical director for a church. We have both band worship and traditional organ services. The people love to complain about loud drums so I bought a db meter to try and keep things in check. Just for fun I checked the organ on the db meter one weekend. It was significantly louder than the band by about 10 db. Nobody complains about it because it's the volume they are used to hearing an organ played at.
The entire point of large orchestras was they they could be loud. A violinist practicing alone falls into the category of people who need to pay attention to their exposure to noise over time - the f-holes are right under their ear plus they get sound transmitted to their ears through their skull. And as for the poor people who get to sit in front of the orchestra’s trombones...ouch. Which is why a lot of orchestras now have clear acoustic panels in front of the brass. Which makes things less painful for the rest of the orchestra but has the side-effect of making the dB produced by the brass bounce straight back at the brass sections.
@@Boooya6 I’ve measured very brief transients, so short our hearing never really notices how loud they are, from acoustic banjos hitting 120dB at one metre. Which is the kind of volume usually associated with artillery firing.
The biggest difference T heard at different volumes was how well I could hear what both of you were doing after the note was picked. I could clearly hear all the vibrato, bends, hammer ons, etc. at higher volumes that were almost inaudible at the lowest volumes. Higher volumes really brought out the expressiveness of your playing. On another subject on June 2nd I order several items from the "That Pedal Show" store. On June 12th (just 10 days later) my items had made their way to Chicago Illinois USA and were sitting on my front porch while I was watching your show. Also, major props to Catherine. I have never received an order so perfectly and neatly packed in my life. She even used orange tissue paper sealed with a TPS sticker. Absolutely perfect presentation.
It also amplifies mistakes - which you can kind of hide on acoustic instruments. I noticed that I play more light and carefully - meaning I pay more attention to muting - if I am playing at high volumes. Nobody likes hearing an errant open string that rings out at super high volumes. Even my 15 watt amp with a preamp pedal, some OD, fuzz, etc. can be super loud - especially because its all sitting in a 75 sq foot room.
Haven't had time to watch yet so you may well have covered this - but I just wanted to comment that being 50+ I am now having to live with tinnitus and a perforated ear-drum. It isn't pleasant and as much as I enjoy things loud, I wish I had taken better care of my ears. Please think about your ears, it is all too easy to brush it off when you're younger and worry about it later.
I laughed in the faces of people complaining about my earplugs back in the 70s. My ears still work, actually, I was tested recently. I got fat military spec earmuffs for some experimental work but apparently I will need additional cranium padding if I have to go near the transducers when the things are running. 💸
It's not just the old that experience issues. I'm partially deaf due to damage done in my teens listening too loud with headphones. Finally tested and diagnosed in my late 20s and been wearing a hearing aid since as I lost top end frequencies and a bit of low end too!
Dan is 48, I’m 46, we’ve both been playing loud and live for 30 years each. It is a bastard that hearing damage affects people in different ways. For sure if we do too many 105dB+ days we’re going to have problems. But we know when it’s too much. Pretty sure my high end has rolled off about normal for my age. I still do a quite a bit of audio.
Have to agree, tinnitus has ruined my playing pleasure as well. So much so that I've sort of got used to playing just loud enough to cover the "open" sound of my strings and as long as I don't get carried away my ears can take it. Can't wear headphones over my ears anymore as that just feeds the beast so I place them either in front or behind and that way I can get a bit more volume if I feel the need.
I'm constantly being told at home "Why aren't you using headphones?" when I practice. And it's difficult to explain to the family why it matters. I'm not even running loud volume, but even just the physical air in the room sounds and feels so much better than headphones. It's hard to understand that feel/feedback when you're not part of the sound loop.
I agree but for slow practice and boring stuff headphones are life savers. No one wants to hear me play on a click track at 60 bpm over and over working on solo memorization
I find it's important not to be an unnecessary annoyance for the most important people in my life, i.e. my wife and kids. I got used to using headphones, I have a good solution too (tube amp, reactive load, good IRs, good headphones). I think it's a matter of attitude. It's sure fun to plqy loud, but I don't think it's necessary. And being able to play at any time of day and night is a great thing. YMMV.
Dan. You are a beautiful, fully integrated person. You feel deeply, and you are able to put into words so well your emotional experience. What makes That Pedal Show so great is that humanity that you show. Your words spoke volumes. Your words were music.
Oh man. I love Dan's passion for the guitar and tone. When he played with that Two Rock's volume cranked he got so emotional and super excited because of what the sound did to him emotionally. You gotta love and respect that level of commitment and passion!
You just nailed the "mother load"of all guitar variables that can't be controlled. The sole reason why guitar tone is so hard to nail down when volume restrictions are ever changing from the bedroom, home studio, practice garage, church, small club and stadium. Each environment introduces a different kind of volume level restriction or freedom requiring a different amp, pedal and guitar settings. At this point I had to start documenting all of my settings depending on the environment I'm playing. And you are spot on with favoring hollows and semi-hollows more when playing at bedroom level due to the lost of guitar interaction versus solid bodies. Thank you for confirming that it wasn't just me or in my head that something was missing!
I can imagine the meeting before this. Mick: "OK, here's our video to-do list. What we thinking?" Dan: "Loud one! Please please PLEEEEASE can we do the loud one!?" Mick: "OK, but we really need to do 'The four pillars of fuzz'." Dan: "I'll allow it."
I've already got this all figured out. I play through headphones, the first thing I do is run my headphone cable into a splitter so I now have TWO sets of headphones. I then put one pair on my Tele so it can hear properly, then the other on my head. Job done.
Came for the great discussion, stayed for all the amazing licks and chops!!! AND stayed even longer still for the discussion's conclusion. Guitar/Music at higher volume is more visceral an experience
This episode is all about what I learned as the "poetic" nature of things. Dan said it well, something can move you so much that it takes you places you wouldn't dare go otherwise. Great show!
The harmonics, nuance and sustain at the higher volumes is just fantastic. Everything feels open & airy, like the amp and guitar are symbiotic. Man, that’s just a thing of beauty. Very inspiring playing, especially Mick and the 335 in this episode. Love youuuuuuuuu!!!! -Aaron
I can’t wait to be lucky enough to play at a decent volume in a live gig setting again. Not just for playing at volume and the experience of that in isolation, but for the special and specific interactions that take place in that environment. Happy people, dancing smiling and laughing. Doesn’t matter what music I’m playing at that time, just that I’m playing and both my band buddies and the people in attendance are in that moment and enjoying it. As a musician who gets to travel around a lot and play in a lot of different type of spaces (when restrictions allow), it’s amazing to experience the changes a room can make. What is too quiet in one space is deafening in another. Finding the right monitoring has been instrumental in developing a consistent “loudness” experience in the vastly changing circumstances I find myself in and has removed the “it’s too quiet” middleman in my head at 99 out of 100 gigs I play now.
Those moments when everyone in the band and the audience are both in the pocket are magical. That interaction between the dancing and energy of the crowd and a band that listens to each other and gets that energy is a human connection like no other. For those moments, everyone in the room is as one, in a way.
And as a player, and a lifelong sound tech, I have a dual perspective. When you can’t mix the FOH without a lot of stage sound covering up the FOH mix, the audience experience is degraded a lot. Like all things in life it’s about a balance to get awesome sound. If I have to get the the FOH over 110 db to cover stage wash it creates hearing damage.
For sure... but I also think there's the importance, especially in clubs, of remembering FOHs job is live sound reinforcement, not live sound "creation" (not sure if that's the best word?). For every input and every mic you add on stage, the necessary PA headroom goes up. I've experienced some clubs & churches that overdo it by "needing" to run everything in the PA with total control - like a recording studio. In a small club, sometimes you don't need the guitar amps, nor every single drum mic'd up, because while the mic adds a certain amount of clarity to that instrument, it also lowers PA headroom and becomes another source for bleed and noise in the system. In that scenario, less in the PA, but a good band and good communication can sometimes get you a more enjoyable mix. Obviously the bigger the room, and the more coverage becomes an issue, the more you need mic'd up, but I frequently see people trying to apply big production techniques to small rooms that don't benefit from it. Everything is relative!
DenisMguitar - same here, unemployable brother. I try to never mess with the guitar player if I can help it, I really want them to be inspired - but at the end of the day, we all work for the audience, don’t we...
@@hughesp Oh the memory of youth when we played in small teenager hangout places and you could feel the guitar and bass because there was only PA for vocals. That was good stuff. And to be honest the sound picture wasn't bad if you wore earplugs. Gigs are alive music, not live studio.
About 30yrs ago I had a JCM800 & 4x12 cab in my bedroom (college grant cheques are not for books). A friend goaded me in to playing it on full volume. I rolled off the volume on my guitar and turned the pre gain and master up to 10. Stepping back about 5ft, I dampened the strings against the body with my left hand as I turned up the volume control. My hand touched the bottom E against the neck pickup.... One of the speaker cones leapt out, punched me on the nose then went back into the cabinet (anyone disputing this - you weren't there, man, you weren't there!). I rolled the volume off on the guitar and turned the amp down. Lesson learned.
@@mattgilbert7347 Everybody,- repeating ad nauseam: " Less is more......" The great Yngwie J. Malmsteen: " That´s bullshit! How can less be more? More is more!!!!" Therefore: More = better!
A fun experiment to try: download the (free) NIOSH noise level app for iOS and put your phone outside your house, near to the room in which your amps reside. I generally practice at around 90 db in the room, but when I'm playing for fun it's closer to 100-105... at which point I'm only measuring about 72-75 db outside. And by outside, I mean just a meter or so away from the exterior wall. It gets even lower near to the edge of our property -- closer to 65. Granted, my wife and I have a detached house in a pretty chill neighborhood in Northern California, but that's still at or below most local (daytime) noise ordinance limits for residential areas... while peaking at 100+ in the room. You probably couldn't get away with that in an apartment. My neighbors complained regularly when I lived in an apartment. No complaints anymore, however, despite playing at much louder volumes. Seriously though, a house without any shared walls is BY FAR the best gear purchase that I've ever made. Playing guitar at a decent volume really is a different (and better) thing, as Mick and Dan said many times in this episode. It changes your whole approach... and it RULES.
Oh my goodness...I am only a couple minutes in and my heart is breaking. I am a drummer and have been in an apartment since I moved in 2013 and can't play my kit anymore at home. Electronic drum kits just do not cut it for me. It's exactly what you are saying. It's the feeling of that power of moving the air and the sensations that it causes throughout my entire body. The bombastic generation of energy and feeling alive. There is no substitute for it. EVER! After paying for nearly 48 years..I miss it constantly.
I‘m a fullbore bedroom player. The only amp that I run through a cabinet is my Bogner Atma 18 which has a 18/5/1 W option. My other amps run through my torpedo captor and wall of sound plugin. (Mesa Minirec, Bogner Ecstasy 3534) So sometimes (which is nearly never the case) when I‘m home alone I turn my Atma up to 18 W and the real joy begins. BUT tbh I‘m so used to low volumes that it nearly never bothers me (just that 5 days a year when I’m lucky enough to go loud). Great show!
Let's face it... Lead instruments, lead by volume! Accompanying instruments can be quiter. This week I got my two amps back, after the digital plugin powered lockdown period, which helped me appreciate, what each tool does. Small amps for small spaces, big amps for big spaces and especially for weak and "unresponsive" Stratocasters the point in which most tube amps wake up, that means loudness. The Hendrix, Gilmour, Vaughn etc tone, is something between timbre and mooooving air! Not much where the audience stand, but a whole lot of difference, where the guitarist stands! Welcome back, guys!!!
I have come here early to mention the magic that is FILTERED EARPLUGS Like turning the volume down on your ears (no muffled sound like regular earplugs), you'll never regret the money you spend on a set of custom molded, filtered earplugs from someone like ACS. You have to protect your hearing if you want to keep it, but it doesn't have to ruin what you can and can't hear.
I've tried them in rehearsals when it got too loud, and they were a lifesaver, but weirdly(?) I seemed to have issues picking up reflection of sound. I don't know why. Direct sound fine and no frequencies lost as far as I could tell. Needed the reflections though to hear myself.
Also not a fan. Spent a fortune on top end moulded ones used by xyz pros with a flat response...I'd actually rather turn down a bit. They kill the whole thing for me. They are used as sleeping ear plugs in noisy places now 😂
I have 2 pairs ACS and another brand and yes they help, but they seems to always cut mostly guitar frequencies, If I have to use them I take them out when I have to record with a band.
Summarising what you are saying, a friend of mine once said "you play to your sound" and that is so true. Your sound includes whatever amp setting you may have but critically - the volume! Volume sets the feel of the sound and is totally critical for whatever room you are in. Different rooms, different volumes to get "your sound".
My all-time favorite "feel" moment when playing the guitar : sitting right on the speaker cab and feeling my ES-125TCD vibrate mightily as I played. Bliss.
@Forallofus Plenty Same here. I just don't get along with compressors when I'm playing. But the compression from a tube screamer at low volume works for me. Go figure.
You're right and right for a fascinating reason the boys have covered before. When you turn a (good) amp up, the power section begins to compress naturally. So an amp turned up responds in a very similar fashion to an amp with a compressor (although, obviously, still very different). Playing with a compressor on is a great way to train yourself not to give a guitar too much welly and to understand the different types of compression (increased volume, overdrive, distortion, fuzz - it's all just types of compression!). I definitely agree with the other posts that compressors sound very different to a loud amp, but the worst thing of all is playing a good amp with too little volume/gain so the dynamics are all over the place.
Don't get me wrong, I love the natural compression and feel of playing the right amp loud, there's nothing like it, sometimes you just can't play loud and to me, set up right, the cali76 stacked edition feels killer under my fingers. I play through a Friedman pt20 so it pretty much sounds and feels good at any volume with or without a compressor. I love it.
The big difference is when you play live: I have never played with in ear monitors (my drummer told me it improved a lot), but moderately loud volumes on stage give you a big psychological boost. However, at the end of the gig I have the opposite effect, the ears getting wary and perceiving a much worse sound. Of course it depends also the kind of music you play: rock and metal need volume, if you play new age you can play quieter.....
It's very important to point out for beginners (to save them from the confusion I went through about 20 years ago) when you turn your amp up but keep your EQ and preamp gain/preamp volume the same it's not going to sound good. With a tube amp louder will be much better but you absolutly have to learn how raising the volume changes the way you hear your guitars tone. Typically louder volumes make the bass and treble frequencys sound significantly louder so it helps to dial them back a bit if your playing loudly. Also your amp needs more gain to saturate at lower volumes but at higher volumes when the power tubes are able to introduce their own distortion an sag you'll no longer need the preamp gain as high so try backing it down a bit. Playing a loud tube amp can sound absolutly incredible and give you the sound you've always been after. But just dimeing the volume on your amp and trying to play with the same EQing as it's normally set at low volume is always going to sound bad. Any reasonable quality tube amp with reasonable quality tubes can sound excellent at higher volumes but it will take you quite some time to get it sounding good if your a beginner or not used to playing loud. Just like with everything in music it takes practice and at first you'll only stumble on a good loud sound every now and then but eventually you'll certainly be able to replicate good tones at high volumes even if it's an amp your only playing for the first time. Lastly I'll say this, if you want to sound good at low volumes then practise at low volumes. But if you want to sound good at high volumes you HAVE to practice at high volumes. Esoevially at first. I played guitar for about 10 years OR MORE until I was really able to confidently dial in good tones at any volume on any amp. It's still something I'm working on and it always will be a work in progress. So don't expect to sit down with your amp for an hour and find your amps best tones. Just work on getting a reasonable tone then try to bridge the gap with your playing. So if your tone is close to what you want just leave it alone and practice your playing. A large amount of tone is in your hands/technique.
Ten years of trying to get a bedroom and recording sound based around low volumes. Three further amps, numerous pedals, some guitars. Watched this. Sent family to shops, went to cupboard, extracted 1972 Twin Reverb, plugged in. Oh Lord.... I remembered I am an ELECTRIC guitarist. In fact, I think I remembered who I am. Good show chaps.
today episode…. "Dan and Mick and search for the "Goldilocks" volume"……I'm absolutely going to refer my wife to this video the next time she asks why I have to play loud !!!! Thanks guys …. brilliant !!!
3.25: TOTALLY agree on the 335. I hadn’t used mine for ages before digging it out for recording in lockdown. It has an organic girth and “air” at low volumes that I enjoy playing more than a tele or a strat in that situation. The 335 and a PRS McCarty (two humbuckers with taps) have been my go-to for recording almost the whole time. Throw me a live gig tomorrow, and the relic’d strat and tele would be straight back in action. Wet / dry recording has been fun too: sounds great in the room even at low vols and more flexibility when mixing. Edit: would also like to thank you for two things: the wonderful home recording vlogs, and introducing me to the Sontronics Delta 2, which is now on my Two Rock cab (dry) and sounds great. (Wet amp has an AKG C214 as it sounds better with the wet effects than an SM57).
I love my Danelectro for the same reason. I have a strange old japanese lp copy that's semi-hollow. Gives me a bit of mojo to hear and feel the instrument vibrate even before hitting the amp.
I searched high and low for an affordable 335-type with a redundancy payment years ago. Suffice to say, I didn't really find one (the difference between a semi and a solid wasn't big enough for me as I already have two other guitars with humbuckers). What I ended up getting was a Peavy Rockingham. The deeper hollow body gave me something to respond to at the quieter volume in the shop. My mistake was to buy it in a different colour to what I had tried. I hadn't really played anything other than solid-bodies so forgot about the differences in tonewoods! The purple sounded great in the shop (I can't remember the wood, could be spruce), but the natural colour was maple which looked fabulous but sounded so much different. My idea of home practise volume has to be loud enough to overwhelm the sound of the picking/strumming on the guitar. Unfortunately the jazz box wasn't paid after the honeymoon period because I didn't like the sound of the guitar itself. Sounded the same through an amp as the one I tried in the shop of course.
Speaking from personal experience, one of the bands I play in insists on silent stage, so I am constantly struggling to match the tone I want to achieve. With one of the other bands, I am using a much more traditional rig. In the first case, I can make it work after several years of tweaking and twiddling, while the other is a dream come true with little gear and almost no effort. Mick and Dan, you have absolutely hit the nail on the head here. Cheers, gentlemen!
i saw Tab Benoit live, not long before COVID shutdown. i stood right at the stage in front of him, about 10 feet from his (2) CAT5 amps, the 4x10 dimed, and 2x12 nearly dimed. the "feel" of that experience is hard to describe in words. amazing.
To help get over that feeling of it sounding weird, not feeling right, practice your electric guitar acoustically. It's not a total fix, but it sure helps. I really truly believe it also helps you connect with your guitar even more so than always playing through an amp. Unless your guitar is a dead sounding log, you will gain insight on your axe if you practice hearing just strings on wood. Dan, when you played the Gretsch, that's likely why Jazz guitarists traditionally are more comfortable playing more quietly through an amp. Because they can hear the guitar acoustically, like that sound, and I guess, part of the style.
@@user-oy7gz5bf2h For the most part I agree. But I have gotten students to play their favorite licks clean with no distortion and many times it sounds sloppy. Sometimes people hide behind distortion to mask some sloppiness. If you can execute it sounding good clean than it's going to sound even better when you play with distortion. But if you play mostly with distortion, yes, you should also practice with distortion. Probably a healthy mix of both.
I play like that whenever I can, it helps me put more attention on plucking the strings properly, if it rings nice then I move one. Then I use distortion to play the same while keeping other strings quiet.
@@JazzRockswithAdam Phenomenal advise and I completely agree with playing acoustically. My Les paul genuinely sounds good without being plugged in, sustains for days
I am going to disagree, a little. Playing acoustically is not what you are going to do on stage, and the difference can definitely affect performance, especially if you really need to feel comfortable with your rig because the music is complex, there is a lot of interplay, there is improvisation, etc. I used to practice acoustically because of the old Roy Buchanan advice; what I came to find was that the guitar felt like a different instrument when it was time to play the gig. Play an electric guitar acoustically and then play it through a pro reverb turned up to about 4z. As “hi fi” as Fender amps are, it’s still a whole different ballgame.
The growing lower volume and dsp live music world is partly why I’ve gravitated toward “underground” metal and punk scenes. They’re still pushing their amps (and themselves) hard and loud, moving air and people alike. I’ve been inspired enough that I’m back in the mix, at 46, playing a Mesa TC-100 at 100W through a1960A in a doom/crust metal band. There’s just nothing like making music at those volumes. Nothing.
Volume opens the joy portal in my heart, which In turn helps me to hear what's been missing from my tone and where I'm taking stuff. As a solo artist I often long for the thrill of cranking up a band and havi g the drummer shake my intestines
Nothing like playing at volume late 70's early 80' I had the good fortune of owning a 50 watt Marshall half stack in Fawn tolex. We were playing at a local club that was large enough to open it up, it was ethereal dare I say spiritual. Not just the volume but the feel both through my body and my hands. The guitar just comes alive. No substitute.
Yea I feel like this needed a room mic near you both to give that feel of “I hear the guitar louder than the amp.” Everything sounded good having the amps mic’d into my headphones. I like the concept though, Moar Gain!
A few people saying this. We want you to hear the tone of the amps and what it does to our playing, not be completely taken over by the volume difference. But yes, understood
Wellllll, Josh smith may have also said that, but you’re likely quoting josh Scott. A distinction that even d&m have a hard time with, to be fair. Both great dudes
This episode made a strong valid point in demonstrating that Volume determines tones. It has been the missing link for lots of players that misfortunely cant play loud due to other human non musical beings. Mainly neighbors and spouses. Artists need their own space to create. Compromise and go for it, keep creating the best music possible. Volume/feel can be triggered with pedals and your own musical attitude, tone and technique.
Ive listened to you guys talk about harmonics many times. Until today I never really understood what you you were talking about. When you went from low volume to high volume on the Two Rock, wow, now I get it. The harmonics were so obvious and how they affected the tone was so obvious. Thank you. Now, how can I build a sound proof studio in my garden 😀
Gents, can I recommend a treble booster when playing quiet? The interactivity between the transistors and the guitar replaces (some of) what you lost with volume. It's not a replacement, but it is a nice helper. Great episode!
My attenuator has the option to add a +3dB or +6dB treble boost and it works great. I run my deluxe reverb on 10 when recording and I can be in the same room with it the whole time.
I didn't get a Treble Booster until after I gave up trying to get a tone playing quiet, so I will have to take your word on that, but what I found was that it was very useful when I wanted to play louder. 🤘 I guess that is what they call "versatile".
I've always played quiet and remember a time, where I actually struggled playing a loud amp. It was at our high school concert with lots of students performing. At sound check it was just find and I didn't really think that much about volume, but by the time of the actual performance, and I strummed the first chord, the amp reacted a whole lot different because of the higher volume and it really distracted me. Probably some of the 'cool' rock guys who'd turned it up, but we were playing clean pop so the louder amp was breaking up a whole lot more than what I was used to. I ended up dropping my pick and tried to hit the guitar softer in order to avoid that break up. Anyways, great show guys! Love TPS
How to know when the volume is right = Dan is in his "happy place!" I could hear the difference in his playing when the amp got there. On a side note, an acoustic guitar gets up to about 90dB when strummed hard. I found that at 85dB sustained and 90-92dB peaks gets me just above the string noise and is very pleasant to play at home (during the day). Again, many thanks for another wonderful episode.
I struggled with this for years, tried amp sims, headphones just don't cut it. I used the Boss GT6 and lost much of what I loved about playing. Moved house and tried a pocket pod, things got even worse (but it was fun being able to go to the kitchen and keep playing) Recently after some serious video watching I bought the 35w Orange Crush because many people said decent tones at conversational volume. Never played so much guitar in my life. I live in a flat that is reasonably well sound insulated and low volume obviously isn't doing what that 2 rock in 100w mode is but it's a world away from headphone playing.
Try a Rocker 15 combo or head, The power reduction switching goes a long way towards decent sound and feel at low volumes. Much of why the Two Rock sounds better cranked than at low volume in the video is because it’s compressing and running out of power amp headroom. Gain structure and eq has more effect than sheer volume in my 40ish years experience of guitar playing - I can get feedback in studio nearfields at around 80dBA using a speaker emulating DI box/load, the amp dirty channel set to break up and a Tube Screamer or similar. Just try and stay louder than where the Fletcher-Munson effect kicks in and bass and treble disappear.
Just be very very careful folks. Playing louder than 80 db without ear protection for extended periods of time can cause permanent damage to your ear and/or tinnitus, which is arguably, even more unpleasant. If you're playing loud, use earplugs so you can keep on hearing those beautiful guitar tones.
Depends on the receptors in your ears. Elton John plays with monitors at over 120db at his feet and had no hearing loss at all as the receptors that depress through loud volume spring back up quickly for him. For others they dont and can stay depressed permanently.
@@joshmuz9018 Elton John does indeed have hearing loss. A quick Google search can confirm. 120dB will do in anyone's ears. That is ear splittingly loud.
@@chrisbutler264 apologies. When I saw the clip it was over 10 years ago and he may well have finally beaten his eardrums into submission of his desire to become deaf
Low volume is like a limiter of sorts. You can’t play hard to where you tense up and don’t let notes play out past where you can hear them. Higher volume is where a quiet signal chain matters most . There’s a different thing altogether playing loud with headphones, no guitar / amp interaction. Great food for thought during playing guys , 👍
In the vcq you mentioned the bassbreaker sounded better at lower volume. I couldn’t agree more! The two rock sounds fantastic loud, but it makes sense that it’s not really “working” at less than crazy volume. This makes me feel better about looking in the 20 watt range for my first tube amp :) spend more on a better quality small amp then a less quality large amp!!! Thanks for providing great knowledge to make sense of all these things most of us can’t try for ourselves :)
I remember doing a gig in ipswich, the sound guys were there 2 days installing the sound gear. In a converted church. Scaffold towers the lot... We arrived, sound checked. Sound was all around us, sounded epic.sound engineer was very happy we were blown away how good it sounded.. Started playing.. "can you turn it down" by the guys who organised the event. This happened 3 times. When I spoke to the sound engineer the only channels on his mixing desk turned up were the vocals. He was not happy, poor guy. All back line. But you could feel it.. it all felt wrong. All they wanted was background music they could talk over.
Mick’s point about not having to work as hard at volume is bang on point. You can kind of sit and ride the sonic wave and you have tremendous scope (with the right amp) to both dig in and, possibly more importantly, pull it back. It’s hard to pull it back when you start from a point where you’re already so quiet that there’s nowhere to go. It’s such a 3D physical thing. Great video guys.
Great subject. I started out playing bass in punk and metal bands and LOVED being loud. Now that I'm into spacey bedroom pop and dreamy stuff, it almost sounds worse the louder it gets (my playing aside). To me, the secret sauce in Loud or Not might be how broken up the sound is.
I understood what you’re saying a while back because I’d been playing at low volume for a while, then I was trying out a new speaker in my AC30 and just started playing at a ‘decent’ volume and vualaa! Instant symbiotic connection between my guitar the amp and my fingers 🎸🖐 I went, “oh yeah! That’s what I’m missing!”
Amps can go to 10 (or 11) for a reason. JK Like a lot things involving the guitar there’s a sweet spot that gives you greater dynamic range and better sonic response. Part of the fun is the journey to find that tonal nirvana. Great show as usual.
I got an electric guitar for my 7th birthday. I didn't own an amplifier until I was 14. Every time I either borrowed one or even went to my guitar lesson, it was great because amps were so magical to me. Playing electric guitar acoustically is good but not magical. Thanks gentlemen.
One of the things that surprised me is that the "tone" of the guitar kept changing for the better, the louder and louder - ie as soon as you turn it down even a bit, you lose some of that wonderful sound. Also I wished you'd touched upon hearing protection a little bit (more) - because pragmatically, even in a suitable environment eg rehearsal venue, big gig or studio, you shouldn't be risking hearing damage for all the reasons I'm sure we all know about etc. Its too late for me - I'm older and having listened to loud music etc, I know my hearing isn't now 100%. But for the younger viewers its worth respecting it. If you lose it, it won't come back. Its almost like, searingly loud guitar is a "forbidden fruit"! So the question remains......is turning the amp down a bit, as good as max volume with hearing protection?
Lots of mention of patch cables (evidence sis 👍) but I’ve never heard you talk about main instrument cable. I’m thinking it’s time I upgraded my 10yr+ planet waves cables so interested to know how important this is and any tips on what to go for, cost benefit of the more expensive types etc etc. Possibly not a show in there but maybe a quick topic to cover on VCQ?
It’s all in the overtones! Every note you pick produces overtones that resonate with it and make up a overall sound that’s far more complex than string vibrating at a certain frequency! These overtones are less audible at lower volumes and only come in to play at a certain level. Guitarists are often berated by their band mates for excessive volume, but ultimately we’re just trying to find a sweet spot where we can bring out these flavours and get inspired!
I just put something together finally. Fletcher Munson Curve explains why you can sound so big with two small amps at low volumes: the added bass coupling offsets the low volume's curve! so if there's more low end it "feels and seems louder." Maybe?
Interesting show chaps. One thing I'd suggest as a way to counter some of the issues with low volume playing, is to get the speaker/amp off the floor & up to the height of the guitar. A second thing to do, is get closer to the speaker. Doing so is remarkably effective at re-energising the guitar/amp feedback loop. I do this with a thinline Tele and a Fender Champ600, and can get the guitar to howl at pretty much conversational volumes. Does doing this fix all the issues with low volume playing? No, there really isn't a replacement for displacement (or displacing a lot of air), but it can get you a lot closer in feel at much more sociable volumes... Best of all, it's easily tried and doesn't cost anything. Just put the amp on a chair/table/whatever & stand/sit next to it. The only thing you need to worry about is picking up hum from the amp - ideally you'd use a head/cab setup, with the head a few feet away from the speaker, but most low powered combos seem to work. If you get hum, just move away from the amp until it stops... Cheers... G
I've had the pleasure of own a couple of 'loud' amps including an '83 JCM 800 40 watt combo in white Tolex. I play like crap & only for myself so I had very few times I could let the amp out of it's box & breathe. When I did it was magical. The floor rolled. The windows rattled. The dishes shook. The amp, my guitar & my body were connected by by waves of sound. I love my black face Chanp & Kalamazoo II. Truly. But they just can't give me that vibrant cocoon of sound like the JCM. Enjoy your show! Rusty
At about 54 minutes Mick says: "Its a different instrument" and I was waiting for that comment. (it prompted a mini air punch) In my experience you can sound good at any volume but you won't be playing the same way or even the same thing. It takes a bit of practice to learn how to play quiet/loud. In other thoughts, going to gigs now, I do miss the 'sonic attack' volume that allowed Hawkwind to purposely rupture spleens with a ring oscillator...
Worth adding that speaker choice can make a big difference to feel at low volumes. I've used a stiff Eminence that only sounded good loud, but changed it out for a inefficient Jensen (the 12-50) that has lots of body and give at the low volumes put out by my Mesa TA-15 in 5W mode.
I couldn't agree more... and its not just guitar. I've been a drummer since the mid 1970s and you just cannot play certain songs, certain styles of music without appropriate volume. Even acoustic instruments need to be played a certain way to bloom and resonate correctly. I was a session musician and never had anyone tell me to play softer, but I hated playing live because even club venues started pushing bands to play quieter so people could have conversations, as if THAT was appropriate. Go to a freaking restaurant bar or a cafe if you want to chat, you come to a club you are there to listen to the band! I did love playing at Ryles Jazz Club in Cambridge MA, because they would not tell the band to turn down, they would tell customers who complained to leave! Wish that place was still around. I had some incredible gigs there. Good times! Good to see you guys get your fix back in the TPS rock room!
The experience of having it loud and feeling it, is amazing. But I value my ears too much. I played in a band for years (loud), and the ringing in my ears after rehearsal (tiny room), was just not worth it. On stage, it became a different story. No ringing in my ears because the room was way bigger. I think that is an important factor for me. The size of the place. Small space, turn it down to protect ears, large space and then turn it up. Sadly, large rehearsal places just don't exist, unless you have the money to rent a theatre or an aula.
Yeah, I play at home just below that point where my ears start to ring a little. That's why I play a 15 watt Bad Cat with K Master Volume. It sounds really good at that level, IMHO.
You put it pretty much perfectly: Tone = Sound + Feel. Sound is one thing but feel especially at home is something that I miss often. Its the feel of the interaction of strings and amp that you described. I think a cheat is to have a semi-hollow or hollow because the ringing of the body gives you back some of the loss of volume of an amp. Great tips and thank you for this episode.
This video demonstrates one of the many attributes that made Hendrix so Awesome. When you play loud with non master volume amps, you really get a taste of what Hendrix was doing. Listening to his albums it is quite obvious that so much of the sounds were achieved through pure loudness, and it really shows you how playing loud requires a different set of skills.
every amp has it's sweet spot volume wise and I've found it doesn't always have to do with wattage. I have 100 watt, 50 watt and 20 watt amps and the 100 and 50 are more manageable volume wise than the 20 watter since it's a NVM amp... that being said there is a definitely a minimum volume setting on each of those amps where anything lower just sounds... meh... I've always found if the engineer is giving you shit about your volume it's easier to just angle your amp away from them than turning it amp down lol
@@paulcowart3174 Yeahhhhh.... when the engineer asks me for my "loudest" sound I'm not playing him my solo patch...lol... he'll get the loudest rhythm sound....
@@ThatPedalShow It really is.... I had an Egnater Tweaker 15 a few years back and the sweet spot on that amp was the master volume at 1 O'Clock and even though it's only 15 watts that sucker was COOKING in to my 2x12 cab at that setting... but once you heard the amp with the master there, if you turned down everything just sounded flat and boring....
Absolutely spot on chaps! Best example I can think of (In terms of pedals) is the tube driver. Fizzy, almost metal zone at low volume, massive glorious blooming sustain at VOLUME.
Fortunately I’ve been to concerts that were playing at massive levels. It’s a treat to behold. That being said it needs to be in moderation. Same with my home studio. Fortunately I can crank my large amps on occasions. But a stereo 15 watt tube amp setup is a happy medium. Loads of low end & clarity.
This episode is great journalism. I enjoy best the ones where I’m alternately stroking my beard in nodding agreement and shaking my fist in the air saying, “but what about...??!!!” I must say, though, performance trumps volume. I’ve never complained that an excellent band was too loud. Welcome back!
As a player who has mostly played quiet (sadly) I can attest it is hugely uncomfortable to play loud. At least it takes some time to get into it. Oddly, Dan's comment about letting the sound (at volume) lead you still totally applies. I sometimes dream about sound proofing materials and methods....
I have exactly the same problem, it feels so uncomfortable to play at a loud volume. I am a shamed to play in front of people or when my neighbours hear me playing. I'm just a little stuck in this... I am thinking to buy that waza air headphone . Should that be a solution?
Asked to turn the volume down at a gig so people can hear each other talk? Nothing is more annoying at a concert than people babbling about besides the constant phone up in the air recording.
