Loud Amp Or Quiet Amp For Recording? [100 Vs 5 Watts, Can You Feel It?]

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Fours sounds recorded loud and quiet - what are we feeling?
Life too short for long RU-vid videos? Please see the ‘Interesting bits and go-to sections’ information below.
Welcome to the show! You can great great tones loud. And you can great tones quiet. But we’re not here to argue any of that. We’re here to expand the discussion around feel and connection to your sound that may motivate or indeed repress your playing.
Thusly, we play four similar tones at high volume and at low volume and discuss the results. What do you enjoy most and what’s most appropriate for your situation? And, inevitably, where is the compromise?
Enjoy the show!
Questions arising - Mick here, hello.
I feel compelled to write this. This video is potentially very confusing and little bit frustrating to watch. The temptation is to focus on the tone of the two amps, and of course while the Bugera sounds really blimmin’ good, it’s hardly surprising that a top-flight boutique amp like the Two-Rock is going to light us up a bit more. Or indeed you may much prefer the Bugera, which is equally valid. However…
This video is not about the subjectivity of tone. It’s about comparing the feel and response of volume and what might be most appropriate for recording. And that’s the frustrating part, because there is literally no way of conveying that fully in a RU-vid video. In any RU-vid video. That last sentence is massively important and we’d be doing you a disservice to not spell it out.
We can discuss the reactions and try to explain the concepts but with this gear and any other gear, you HAVE to be in the room to really understand whether it’s going to work for you or not. And that’s not some kind of cop-out for this video’s shortcomings. It’s plea to anyone who thinks a RU-vid demo tells you what something sounds and - more importantly - feels like. It really does not. It's only a small part of the story and we’ve always been open about that. Please get in a room and experience this stuff!
Room mics? We said we were going to get into that, but didn’t. We felt it would add more confusion. Let the record show we adjust the gain on the room mics in keeping with the close mics for each of the loud and quiet sounds.
Enjoy the show!
And please visit That Pedal Shop www.thatpedalshop.com/
Pedals and stuff in today’s video
• Custom pedalboard by Alder & Ash
www.alderandashpedalboards.com/
• TheGigRig Three2One
www.thegigrig.com/three2one
• Sonic Research ST-200 Turbo Tuner
Australia: bit.ly/2mR1s8c
• Origin Effects Cali 76 Compact Deluxe
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2uVGMBL
Australia: bit.ly/2ZA9MfE
USA: bit.ly/3F4Bmqe
• Jim Dunlop JHF1 Jimi Hendrix Fuzz Face Distortion
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2AUTELD
• Mythos Olympus Overdrive
UK & Europe: bit.ly/3SISlpj
Australia: bit.ly/3JRfSQV
• Vahlbruch Kaluna Valve Overdrive
www.vahlbruch-fx.com/en/
• Jam Pedals Waterfall Chorus
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2MifNem
Australia: bit.ly/3nb8JzN
USA: bit.ly/3nSMTTq
• Walrus Audio ARP-87 Delay
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2ggMzuK
Australia: bit.ly/2xXMsvF
USA: bit.ly/3SPbh66
• Catalinbread Topanga Reverb
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2mj3leK
Australia: bit.ly/2qVOTyJ
USA: bit.ly/3Gub8Ol
• The Gigrig G3
www.thegigrig.com/g3
Interesting Bits & Go-To Sections
0:00 Intro playing
2:00 What are we doing today?
4:02 Our loudest & quietest amps
5:30 Volume & our recording chain
7:48 Two-Rock & Bugera basic tones
9:06 Bugera at 1 and 0.1 watts
10:03 L&Q Sound 1 - Dan’s Happy Place
12:52 Reaction to Sound 1
13:46 Try more volume in headphones?
15:13 Play in the control room?
16:47 Live vs recording?
17:45 L&Q Sound 2 - Low Gain Rhythm
21:09 Reaction to Sound 2
22:30 Setting up sounds quietly?
23:13 L&Q Sound 3 - Higher Gain Riff
24:52 Reaction To Sound 3
26:18 More Sound 3 - more feedback
29:17 More Sound 3 reaction
33:50 L&Q Sound 4 - Stratty Fuzzy
36:45 Reaction to Sound 4
38:11 Sound vs Tone vs Volume
40:45 Closing thoughts
Guitars
• Fender Custom Shop ’63 Telecaster - Dan’s video here • That Pedal Show - Our ...
• Gibson Custom True Historic ’57 Les Paul Goldtop, Murphy Aged - no video yet
• Epiphone Casino - Mick’s video here • Epiphone Casino Pickup...
• Gretsch G6228 Player’s Edition Jet BT w/V Stoptail - video here • What About Gretsch Gui...
• 1961 Fender Stratocaster - video here • Three New Strats For M...
Amps
• Two-Rock Classic Reverb Signature & 212 cab with TR1265B speakers
• Bugera T5 Infinium & 1x12 Tone King cab with custom Celestion 1660 speaker
We hope you enjoy this episode. Please subscribe.
You can buy TPS merch to support our efforts www.thatpedalshowstore.com
We are on Patreon - crowdfunding for creatives
/ thatpedalshow
Please visit our preferred retailers!
UK & Europe: Andertons Music bit.ly/2cRvIvt
Australia: Pedal Empire bit.ly/2mWmJQf

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31 май 2024

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Комментарии : 525

@jonathankvex Год назад

Since I live in an apartment, I play through studio monitors because I can’t be loud, but I wanted to solve that issue of feeling connected to a quiet sound. I built what I coined a “cab chair” by connecting vibration transducers to my practice chair, and sent all the bass frequencies to it. So I could keep the volume low, but still feel the rumble of the bass. It actually worked decently well.

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Nice!

@bumblefritz Год назад

Now that's innovation!

@xdoctorblindx Год назад

Very cool idea!

@jonathankvex Год назад

The easiest way to make your own is to buy a Buttkicker Gamer 2 - traditionally it’s used for gaming to feel explosions, gunshots, collisions, etc. But it connects to your sound system, so if you use plugins, digital modeler, or connect your amp to your monitors, it will act as if it’s a subwoofer, and it’s easy to attach to most office chairs. It doesn’t work as good since my build had a transducer in the back of the chair too, but it’s good enough. To be a real product it would need a lot more tweaking but I think it helps. I’ve seen some other similar systems that bass players will use where it’s a platform with transducers that they stand on, so they can feel the bass. That seems like a great use case.

@petergallagher5622 Год назад

Now whenever he plays at home he has to be in that chair or else it won't sound or feel right. This could eventually turn into an adult guitarist "blankie" situation where he takes it everywhere. His bandmates will eventually have an intervention; "Listen man, this has to stop." Joking aside, awesome innovation!

@mrblablablabla Год назад

Whenever you guys do these tests for recording, I would love a section where you react to the recorded sounds.

@johnd886 Год назад

I couldn’t agree more - that’s half the point isn’t it? Perhaps they will cover it in q&a on Monday?

@simoneh4732 Год назад

Yes please!

@tonymoore78 Год назад

Dan, I mean this as the biggest compliment I can muster, I really admire your playing. The journey you’ve been on over the years on TPS is absolutely amazing. Your note/chord choices always surprise me in the best ways, and I truly look forward to your playing parts. All the work you’ve put in with your jazz exploration and lessons from the masters absolutely shows every time you play. You have easily become one of my favorite guitar players. 😊

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Ah, thanks so much Tony 🤗🙏

@SomeKindOfMadman Год назад

Dan’s the reason I got into Telecasters in the first place. Many thanks for that mate.

@weschilton Год назад

Well said, Tony. Dan's playing has really grown over the years.

@Tom_Dancer Год назад

Agreed, he's a rare thing... a truly unique sounding player. I recognise him without seeing him.

@johnfrenette Год назад

I can’t help think this myself, and for me it’s through the lens that so many players seem to plateau, and Dan seems to truly be pushing himself and progressing in ways I’d bet most of us wish we did. I personally feel kinda honored to be a part of the journey, along with the obvious benefit of hearing good playing. Props.

@SaintLuminus Год назад

Dan wearing headphones while wearing a hat on top is literally priceless. We love you Dan!

@owent4485 Год назад

What great timing for this video - I've been looking for a new amp for recording purposes. You guys have expanded my gear knowledge and uses tremendously!

@beav15 Год назад

Brilliant, love everything you guys have been doing, and I love the long form videos.

@SomeKindOfMadman Год назад

Hope you both a good vacation, great to have you back. Very useful lesson you both showed us all in this upload. Many thanks mates. Cheers! : )

@jeffallen3382 Год назад

Can I say just how great both of your playing was on this video! Well done Dan & Mick!

@ABCDEF-ks5op Год назад

Great Show!! After starting with guitar last year I learned so much from you D&M, thanks a lot. The biggest jump in my playing happened when I started watching you guys and just turned up the amps (JTM45 & Super Reverb TPS Wet/Dry) and started blasting away with my Strat & Germanium Fuzz. It is like Dan said, you hear every little detail and the slightest position difference in the fingers or the pick has drastic influence on the outcom. Moreover every mistake you make gets amplified immensely so that you can notice it instanly and adjust and stop making the mistake. Whereas on a silent setting you just strum you´re chords and you dont notice that the one string isnt muted correcly, but you cant hear it so you dont make adjustments. Play loud !!! you´re playing will benifit massively from it

@periloustemple8290 Год назад

Either way: both of you just sound amazing! It's such a "horses for courses" (Mick says). I can't wait for the live show to find out where everyone's at with this.

@DavidJaggyGmbH Год назад

Amazing stuff, as allways. Really helpful and inspiring. Many thanks

@petercornell2002 Год назад

Aah, my favourite few minutes of the week, the intro to the latest episode...... A little bit of Mick n Dan's sould. Many thanks gentlemen, great stuff!

@PAHVID Год назад

Both amps sounded great recorded! As you say, all about the experience in the room. The disappointment on Dan’s face at low wattage was palpable.

@vincentjackson3472 Год назад

Dan, that intro jam you had.... superlative! It was really quite divine. Love it!

@jamescolunio2801 Год назад

I never miss an episode of TPS and really look forward to this one. I ONLY record at home (and collaborate with others out of state). I was, at first, surprised that you used two entirely different amps. I then understood the point you were making on both setups. I was thinking the same thing that Mick said at the end... that there were amps "in the middle category" (paraphrasing) that could essentially perform close to both tasks. I guess I was just not ready to throw out my Fender Princeton (which I purchased because of TPS). Another fantastic show. Keep up the good work... believe it or not... it's needed. Thanks.

@DennisAlvarezMusic Год назад

In the higher gain segment I very much preferred the Bugera. It sounded like a cranked amp, where the Two Rock sounded like a clean amp with a pedal.

@DennisAlvarezMusic Год назад

As always, very useful and fun content.

@tmuka Год назад

Very cool demonstration! It must have been especially disappointing to play the 5W amp immediately following the 100W! Brilliant playing and discussion as always. Love the expressiveness when you're surfing the sound waves and sustain with the resonant harmonic feedback on the loud amp! Thanks!

@martimdesouzajunior7585 Год назад

Good job, Dan! Nice playing in the intro!

@conorlarkin1111 Год назад

Wow. What an interesting video! Great playing as always, but the discussion was very thought-provoking

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Thank you Connor. We were hoping that would be the reaction, rather than people just getting confused about which sounds ‘better’. Cheers!

@MrKenward777 Год назад

Brilliant episode!I learned so much

@toddgolden4578 Год назад

Be interesting to see the match up of really expensive small amp and average loud amp.

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

That's a GREAT shout!

@fly51256 Год назад

Agreed. Maybe they should have been both expensive?

@MrWumbologist Год назад

Was thinking just this. No doubt a louder amp is more dynamic, but a better amp would also be more dynamic

@testpattern098765432 Год назад

Maybe the Princeton would have been a better comparison?

@cchavez248 Год назад

@@fly51256 I think he may have meant that a small, expensive amp and an average bigger amp would cost nearly the same. Therefore, a relatively expensive small amp and an affordable bigger amp would be a better comparison, dollar for dollar. TBH, I'm pretty sure a comparison between a big expensive amp and a small expensive amp would yield very few surprises.

@Cesiumswimsuit Год назад

Looking forward to this! I thought for a moment you guys were rocking a Tone King Gremlin

@philhatton3053 Год назад

Useful episode for me as I use IEM’s so encounter a similar discussion, what you hear in a room is drastically different to what you hear when all you hear is the mic and speaker. Speaker choice (and mic choice) becomes different and perhaps cab size/choice has less impact on the overall tonality that you hear. I think a really interesting experiment would be for those who have never recorded or listened to their amp mic’d up to go through that experience and still see if they enjoy the tone they get when they can hear more speaker and less room, hope you’re both enjoying some well earned time off!!

@GrzesiuMusic Год назад

I enjoyed Mick's American accent at 26:10. Also, throughout the episode, I was thinking "Right, so medium-loud amp then?" And then you said it. Once again great video, gentlemen. I do a lot of home recording, so it's good to get some perspective on these things.

@GlasVelo Год назад

Very interesting as usual gents...thank you. As someone who yearns for a 'real' amp, it gives me some food for thought (if I ever wanted to record at home). I live in a small flat so the more pleasing volumes just aren't an option. The closest I get is a good pair of headphones plugged into my Spark40. One day I'll be able to experience the joy of a loud amp at volume...thinking maybe the end of September! ;)

@MythosSoundStudio Год назад

Dan and Mick, great show once again. I really enjoyed the comparison. Mick, I think you bring up a great point - some of the greatest albums were created in Monitors. I understand what Dan is saying for live sound, and the discussion around room resonance as well as impact to the actual guitar itself. Being an "in studio" player, what I find interesting is that I don't experience a vast difference in either using a MFX (Headrush, Helix, Neural DSP, et. al.), a live amp in a live room, or going directly through my interface as a DI into my DAW. I will say, there is quite a delay in the later - something about the DI signal path that's slow to response into my DAW for various reasons (computer doing all the heavy lifting, time synchronization between interface and computer, any clock drift being compensated for etc). In fact, through my monitor during recording live guitar, I feel the resonance in my guitar as I'm playing. I'd be really interested in seeing your take with monitors in the room, cabs isolated, and playing these same two amps. It would be really great do see and hear your experiences and if it still makes a difference. As much as you both were talking about feel and experience, as I was listening through a set of fairly flat response headphones, what I noticed the most was frequency range difference in the two setups - which would absolutely sway me to use one or the other. Much more range in the 2Rock v the T5 (which is expected). Each time I hear both of you discuss the vast differences in any of the various contexts of "this v that" I sometimes feel confused as I'm not experiencing the same dissonance between various signal paths. I will say that I do hear the difference, but feel wise the "close enough" statement seem to continue to be true for me. Just a thought as I know there are many arguments in the chat on many things. Seeing what it would be like in a true "recording" type setup would be interesting to experience through your (Mick and Dan's) ears and feeling of the notes. I'm also reminded that the best recording were not only made through monitors, but with 15 & 30w amps.....

@SeanCampbell16 Год назад

Excellent show , I recently purchased a Laney Cub12 15w knowing it has a 1 watt option purely for home use, tried it once and have been on 15w ever since, sounds much better even at a relatively similar volume.

@ratsalad1 Год назад

Fab playing at the beginning there Dan!

@ZeBubba Год назад

Great work again, gents! Using the same kind of cab would have been cool. One less variable. Cheers!

@arnolddealiii4259 Год назад

Hey guys great show as always! I’ve taken small amps with hardly any volume and cracked up mic preamp plenty of times to get a colossal recorded tone before. I always feel more inspired when I can feel the tone in my bones, and that always results in more volume! I do a lot of digital processor stuff at home but out with my buddies I’ve got a newer AC30CH and a 2x12 cab. With the right volume most of the night I could probably get by just working my volume control to clean up the sound. It’s not a huge high gain tone especially with a Stratocaster so it’s always nice to have a Tubescreamer or something to give the old preamp a kick 🦵 At home with my Line6 PodGo I find headphones uninspiring. Literally like you guys said in the comments I have to turn the monitor level up loud enough to get any real inspiration going on. On silent stages like church settings I use in ear monitors, but leave one ear open to the room. Although stage volume is low with a processor the mains usually put out enough volume in the room to inspire me, and I can usually get a personalized monitor mix so I can hear what I want. In the end I would much rather go every where with my Vox AC30 but it’s a rather large amp physically and musically! Sometimes the processor is right for the situation. Or maybe a smaller amp like a Blues Jr.

@Bullittbl Год назад

I hope you have a great holiday! I am looking forward to see you live again. Dan, I hope you keep my idea about revisiting your pedalboards from your first year of TPS and comparing them to the boards you use today. I think a lot of people will enjoy that. Cheers!

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Hey Brian, Mick here. First VCQ back will be 22 Aug. Thanks again for the suggestion. With some hilarity my most recent board is starting look a lot like the one Dan did for me all the way back then. Ha! Dan's has changed a bit.... Cheers!

@Bullittbl Год назад

I'm looking forward to it. Fascinating show today! From my point of hearing I have to say that the Bugera sounds like a much more expensive amp. The two rock though is chalk and cheese better than everything. I'm obviously not finished watching but I'd love to hear how they sound recorded dimed wide open making the power tubes howl. Enjoy your remaining holiday

@peterpeper4837 Год назад

Excellent episode !

@FlyingGuitarGuy Год назад

Thanks for the impressive. demonstration. In my opinion you left out something very important. The position of the guitar to the amp. When you move the amp closer to the guitar, the speaker facing the top or pickup you get very different results and the interaction dramatically changes. Therefore I would really appreciate a part 2 involving elements like position, closeness, angle and further assisting/enhancing pedal to achieve similar results. Thanks for ur amazing work!

@duncancartledge1667 Год назад

Amp, Loadbox for line out into Line 6 Powercab plus. Great at home low volume set up and you get the feel of the amp being pushed. Great show by the way

@MattUFO33 Год назад

Brilliant episode! My Orange Tremlord 30 does well as a loud pedal platform for recording, and a quieter practice amp.

@joedabron4846 Год назад

I’ve been getting pretty good sounds through a Marshall DSL1, with an external Arthursounds preamp into the back at the 0.1 watt setting. The power stage overdrive is what seems to help a lot for extra harmonics and feel. Plus all the extra pedal-type tricks for low volume you guys have taught us over the years. The sadness of lack of volume aside, I’d be interested to see more experiments with the ultra low watt tube amps… as recording a good ‘large tube amp’ sound at low volumes like 80db or less would seem to be something of a holy grail for those of us who have to record at home. Many thanks for all you guys do at TPS, keep up the amazing work 🙏🎸

@jamarwright Год назад

A very cool video. The Bugera recorded surprisingly well with the LP and Gretsch. It was very apparent that the traditional Fender single coil tones revealed its shortcomings. I was astounded how bad the strat and fuzz sounded through the Bugera. Very inconsistent performance from the Bugera when throwing a variety of styles at it. Aside from the big iron sound of a 100 watt amp, the Two Rock's dynamic range is the defining feature of that amp. I own one too. It forces you to improve your right hand dynamics. This was also very apparent in the video. Also Dan's playing has drastically improved over the last few years. You can tell he's been working on improving. Love hearing you play Dan!

@gdvsbp Год назад

Man, I love you guys. Just last night I was asking myself this after hearing some pretty audible pedal click over the sound of my 1 watt Marshall.

@matimoksa Год назад

man, i experience the same thing last night, lol

@michael_caz_nyc Год назад

Pedal companies need to make Silent Actuators a Standard . . . Can't stand that "Click"

@davidtomkins4242 Год назад

@@michael_caz_nyc the click is a solid bit of metal passing over another bit of solid metal - which is why those switches last a long time. Silent switches are possible but there's often a compromise on reliability/durability over 1000s of 'clicks'. Also - silent computer keyboards are possible but they found that people actually need the click to know when a key has been pressed. use a touchscreen with no vibration or lights and it's a bit disconcerting, especially typing at speed

@ivorharden Год назад

@@michael_caz_nyc tc electronic have some good switches on their pedals.

@michael_caz_nyc Год назад

@@ivorharden Agree. Love my Polytune 3

@bleeknoir Год назад

.. I just love this show. Thank you Dan and Mick. Viva TPS. PS, got my first ever that pedal pup this week, he responded to TPS by walking all over the iPad. I call that rock and roll.

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Hahah! Wooof!

@murray.altheim Год назад

This was a really helpful video inasmuch as I've recently gone from loud to entirely headphone recording, and my band's music is entirely improvisational. When recording in my lounge back in New Zealand (Persian rugs over wood floors, not a large room), my bandmate and I are both running into stereo tube amps. My rig is a Princeton on the right channel, a double-mic'd Vibrolux on the left. The output is split and then runs through a Eurorack processor into a pair of Mesa 800w solid state bass amps each into a G&K 4x10 cabinet. We don't have to crank up the volume all that much, as when we're playing the room is entirely alive, the air sizzles and feedback is always possible, especially if I want to lean back into the Vibrolux behind me. I'm now in Japan, with the culture of Japan, neighbours all around and my mother-in-law living downstairs. So when I really want to turn it up I might venture to really push my little Bose bluetooth speaker loud enough to hear my guitar, but generally I'm recording through headphones. As both of you noted, the feeling between loud and quiet is entirely, entirely different. It's difficult to connect with what I'm playing, even when the headphones are up fairly loud. As Dan, I likewise hear myself in my headphones as a recording. And because improv pretty much requires that connection I'm having a heck of a time. It's almost like I don't know how to play guitar at all. So if there's any fault in this video it's that you guys didn't solve the problem (or world hunger).

@BorostateBlues Год назад

Very interesting show guys

@devilsboxcar3925 Год назад

Awesome video this week boys🤘🏻

@ed.bromiel Год назад

I have learn so much about the importance of frequency. I might not be a more advance player but I do sound better. Thanks guys!!!

@eaglerayrob Год назад

I have several low wattage amps from 2W to 18W and love them. They cover a variety of tones and textures. But when I want to feel connected give me 100Watts and a 2X12, better yet give me 100W and 2X12 in stereo and submerse me in a room of moving air. The sound from the higher headroom amps seems to have an added dimension to it that is inspiring. I understand that isn't practical or even possible for some people but, that doesn't change how wonderful it feels when it happens. Great work and, while not the point of this episode, I thought both amps sounded great. I hope your having a great holiday. P.S. My Cogmeister is under construction 🙂

@TheMerc1950 Год назад

Another great video gents. Cheers.

@ferrinbonn Год назад

I'd like to see a follow up video where the two of you listen to the recorded tones and give your thoughts on those. It's great to see your reactions to the tones you're hearing as you play them and how it inspires you to play, but if you're really concerned about the end product, that would probably be secondary to the tones you actually end up with. I also think the comparison would have been better if you had used the same speaker cab with each amp. It would have at least eliminated one variable on top of the $300 amp vs $6000 amp thing. 😆

@mal2ksc Год назад

A speaker designed to handle 100W doesn't open up when fed 5W. A speaker designed to handle 5W releases the magic smoke when fed 100W. You need a lower power speaker with a lower power amp if you want it to sound at all like the cone is flexing or the spider is hitting maximum excursion.

@hgostos Год назад

Indeed!!

@charleslambiase5670 Год назад

Another thing I do is I have my amplifier as I call it room temperature and instead of headphones with one ear exposed to the actual sound that makes a big difference to me a big big difference and also what helps is the resonance that I'm actually getting from the instrument the natural residence which will send the vibrations up in down and especially into my gut so this is something I've been going on with for about for years and years and years and years and it's a good thing that you guys are bringing us up to people because a lot of us overlook it a lot of people overlook it myself no because I understand it!!!

@willrayment9544 Год назад

20 mins in and enjoying the small amp. Mind you like 90% of people I'm listening through smart phone speakers.. think this one is going to be put through a proper sound system. 🤔 see if I feel the same 🤷‍♂️ top content as always. Man I love Fridays.

@MAP448 Год назад

Even though you were able to set both mic pre's up correctly for each amps sweet spot, the bigger amp had such a bigger sound filled with more harmonic artifacts & truthfully just a much bigger fuller sound that you would expect from a much louder amplifier. You guys proved that out within the 1st 8 minutes & 20 seconds.

@wendelllaffin240 Год назад

my tone journey went from 100 watt heads to finding the lowest wattage tube amp I could find while still fulfilling my tone needs... then I found the OX Box and now I can use larger tube amps in any environment. I can run them without the OX wide open or through the OX attenuated at any level I want or direct to monitors... I love the 40-50 watt range amps as a result.

@LostPlanet2024 Год назад

Great show. Yep, Mick you nailed it. Inspiration to play freely, musically, is a 90%er! Really does not matter at all what toanz you are able to coax out of a rig, if you cant feel inspired to ‘play’, all is lost. We don’t capture toanz we capture performances.

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Glad you feel that way. The only I get, the less I care about ‘sound’ and the more I care about feel and performance. Now if I could only divorce the latter from volume! :0)

@robertfrippers Год назад

I've been playing through my starter amp, the Orange micro terror, for 8 years now and I've been satisfied spending my money on pedals. Can't wait for the day I get a 'proper' amp, but recently I've just picked up a Vox AC30 Plugin and that is amazing as well... all coming from my Desktop I cant really believe it!

@davecarrsfabulouscontraption Год назад

Love your work as usual :-) You both often say that you're curious to hear how the audio would turn out - it'd be interesting to see your reactions listening back to the audio for some of the shows

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Cheers Dave! That was the original point of the Monday live show, but nobody could concentrate long enough to go through all that. Hahahah! FWIW, the audio is pretty much what I expected (having recorded so much guitar at this point!) The Bugera sounds totally credible and you could use it no worries. But. Neither of us were enjoying playing it much and that comes over in the performance. Just a little bit louder would do….:0)

@davecarrsfabulouscontraption Год назад

@@ThatPedalShow That came through clearly - after all these years of videos I'm starting to get the impression that you guys like it loud 😜

@raedellwood6911 Год назад

As Mick mentioned the issue with practice at home with the 5 watt, or whatever lower watt amp and then rehearsing with band or gig with the higher wattages, the cab used seems to make a big difference in getting closer to the feel/connection to the sound you get from more watts, I switched from running my 5 watt into a 1x12 to running it into a 2x12 cab to get more "air" moving and get more of the feel back. Not perfect, but it's better, but getting the feel from "clean" sounds is really hard as 5 watts just can't do loud and clean. And then recording is a whole different thing. Years ago when I started I thought I was just going "play" the guitar, oh well.... so much to learn everyday. Great show as always gents.

@houseofshred3725 Год назад

Great work as always, gents. For what it is, I thought the little Bugera sounded surprisingly good considering the absolute monster it was up against. My takeaway is that you get great sounds out of a loud, big amp, but you can still have a pretty good time if all you have to work with (for whatever reason) is something more diminutive in stature.

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Totally that! I find little amps much easier to record. Just find that interaction sweet spot!

@curtisburns Год назад

When Eric Valentine recorded Slash he put the miked up speaker cabinets in one big iso booth, and had Slash in another iso booth with a 4x12 Marshall extension cabinet to hear himself, and 2 foldback wedges for blasting the playback at him because he hates headphones 😂.

@MAP448 Год назад

Hey Curtis, Exactly Which albums or songs were recorded this way?

@danolivier4899 Год назад

@@MAP448 check out Making Records With Eric Valentine "By the Sword"

@johnvcougar Год назад

EV is a legend. I love his remote rig for moving the mic around in the recording space from the control room. Sweet!

@simonkinder2385 Год назад

This shows how important it is to use the right tone for the right element in your recording. Mixing a 2Rok and other amp (for example) adds width, depth and frequency range in your recording. That's right for some things and not others. Horses for courses!

@RussellJones144 Год назад

Great video as always guys guys! I used to think the difference would be negligible once everything was mixed and tweaked in the studio … that was until I played a solo stood in the same room as a Sovtek Mig 50 (with a Russian big Muff in front of it) flat out. The solo sounds like a different guitarist, a whole different vibe and feel. There was more space, fewer notes as I was, frankly, terrified of the thing that close at that volume. Even with headphones to hear the backing track, the way the amp physically made me feel was a totally new experience and made me play in a vastly different manner.

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Absolutely. That. Nothing remotely sensible or objective about it. But the difference is palpable. Nice one!

@backpackertony Год назад

I own a Bugera 5W, Fender Princeton 68 RI and a Fender HRD III. The Bugera is actually quite nice for recording because you can take it to the point of breakup without blowing the studio mic out. I also use it for band practice in our small rehearsal space. I mostly leave it there and dont worry about it. I think I bought that little beast for $150 back in 2012. Of course for a live setting, it is the HRD or the Princeton, depending upon the venue. But I really like having the 3 different options.

@TonyLondonUk Год назад

Enjoyed it greatly

@SergioAureo Год назад

I recently had to go down the hybrid path and am now using a Two Notes Captor X with my Cornell Plexi 7 amp. Although the amp in only a 7 watt amp with power scaling and can be operated at 7, 1, 1/4 and 1/8 of a watt, I can't get it under 80 dB, even in the quietest setting, which is loud for playing/recording in my apartment because my neighbors don't understand guitar tone (who would imagine that?). Even at 80 dB I could feel that interaction between guitar and amp and it recorded so beautifully even mic'ed at that volume. But it is better to play with headphones than not being able to play at all, even if the experience is not quite there... choices... Cheers guys. Great episode!

@david_cummings Год назад

Always a treat to hear the Casino and the Red Gretsch

@Les537 Год назад

In my home studio of doom I have a homemade fender champ type circuit (with EL34) and a couple of pine cabs I made with a 12 inch alnico blue and and 10 inch alnico gold. This really does the trick for recording to my tastes. That and an AC15 gets the job done without breaking windows. Back in the day I had a crazy amp with two 9 X 8 inch cabs of death. I think it was a trainer. it was a million years ago in a galaxy far away.

@Yupppi Год назад

I finally succumbed to the trend of bluetooth headphones. Got in-ears for exercising, and now I can listen to TPS while cooking. I love it. I can even go to bathroom in the middle of the episode when I have finished my coffee. Hooray for uninterrupted TPS. The title on the other hand made me think of Clapton and that Champ he used to record Layla (probably something else as well) right away. But I do love turning the 4x12 equipped head loud in the other room. The thing is: choose both if you can. Don't settle on one thing, you'll find reasons to love both. Dan put it in words how it is to play with amp plugins. It's fantastic how you can mesh right into the song when playing with a song, and you can have it in your headphones in the middle of the night. But it acts like a mic'd amp that's loud and gainy, you won't have the experience of caressing the strings versus smashing the strings as much as with a loud amp next to you. It might be frutstrating that it doesn't react to your hits as much, but it's a great feeling to feel like you're part of the song and can figure out how to play the nuances of the song. It kinda feels like playing in a different room when recording. But I swear not many things slam the bottom end like hitting Marshall 4x12" with G12T-75 hard, so that your pants are flapping. Like you guys always say, it makes you play different when you experience your playing physically. And I'm sure Dan has been listening to Tool, every time he goes to drop tuning... riffs or the delay stuff.

@sethlover6498 Год назад

the hat on top of the headphones!! screenshot that!! Priceless!!

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Waaaay ahead of you. ;0)

@sethlover6498 Год назад

@@ThatPedalShow Yas!! Next... on a tshirt!!

@deplinenoise Год назад

Good show. There are plenty of variables at higher levels that can come into play. You’re driving the condenser microphone a lot more, which will introduce some harmonic distortion. The preamp is driven harder. Another consideration is bleed. The louder you can play the less bleed you have to put up with. I think most recordings these days even if “in the room” with a band in a studio is done at moderate levels.

@davidewen3823 Год назад

The Bugera sounded good ,but it was a guitar into an amp sound.The Two Rock on the other hand was a tele into an amp , a Les Paul into an amp and so on. It could of been any guitar into the small amp ( again it did sound good ) but the loud amp was specific guitar tones/sounds, you could tell what type of guitar was producing said sounds and interacting with the amp for an extra layer of musical vocabulary that the small amp could not translate. Excellent show as always.

@ryangunwitch-black Год назад

I've been recording with two 5 watt amps and it sounds great and they get plenty loud enough to feel it. Of course I'm probably buying a 1970 Pro Reverb this weekend to run in conjunction with my Showman for gigs.

@EasyHeat Год назад

Exceptionally great content gentlemen! Well done indeed! I've got possibly a related topic to potentially explore in the future if you fancy? Hybrid recording. Something like say, a full on tube amp head into a something like a Two Notes CaptorX Vs. saaaay? A valve preamp like a Victory V4. With an obvious plethora of all analog pedal in the front? I'd definitely watch that. Mostly due to the fact that I'm currently experimenting with the later: ) Just saying... BTW?! Martin Kidd is an absolute genius! 🙃 Cheers! TTFN!😅✌

@mrdanjames Год назад

Great show as always :) To add to the discussion about recording, when I record guitarists in the studio, I put them in the control room with loud monitors to get the interaction. That way they hear back what they played as they were tracking. If you put a guitarist in a room with a loud amp and then play the recording back to them later, they will always be disappointed. This is because in the room with the amp sounds and feels nothing like a recording. So the only way to avoid disappointment is to keep them in the control room.

@DornAndGrant Год назад

Completely agree. Have recorded like this myself since 85. I suspect it’s why I’m comfy using the helix. Took a bit more time live but very much a fan now (amps pre-helix headstrong lil king s and a dr z so was comfy with valves too)

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Makes sense, and of course so many records were/are made that way. It’s also probably not too wild to suggest that most guitar players don’t spend hundreds of days a year recording guitars and as such just need to be put into a situation that makes them most comfortable, Nevertheless I’m still surprised when I meet people who say the recorded sound doesn’t really sound like the in the room sound. To me it’s always been like comparing a photograph with what you actually see!

@mrdanjames Год назад

Oh yeah, whatever makes the performer comfortable always wins. So far all the guitarists I work with have been happy with this. But that’s usually because of the huge speakers and the loud volume. Most of them prefer not wearing headphones too, so the control room is (so far over 20 years) the best option.

@olisaush6552 Год назад

This is an unbelieveable good sounding telly...

@MikeSingSing Год назад

I think nowadays the best tool for homerecording is something like IR+Loadbox/attenuator, with whatever is the amp of your choosing. You can push the amp, most give you a uneffected line out option for reamping, some even with the option of using your favourite delays/reverb in the loop after the IR, which always sounds a bit more HiFi to me.

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

And then what about the acoustic and harmonic resonance between guitar and speaker? Loud studio mons maybe?

@MikeSingSing Год назад

It's up for debate how much the resonance between guitar and speaker actually contributes in a recording environment and in a full mix.. For the average listener? Not at all. For us guitar players in a room, very much so. As you guys said in the end, that's why there are AC15s and stuff like Tiny Terrors in every studio, the answer lies somewhere in between. But for homerecording? Amp + IR will do just fine.

@NathanNagel Год назад

@@MikeSingSing harmonic resonance makes a huge difference in the way Mick and Dan use it, and no one can argue that. If you have feedback vs don’t have feedback it makes a huge difference.

@jcugnoni Год назад

No need to run through monitors, you can have the speaker connected to the attenuated output of the load box to get some feedback but get a great recorded tone via IR+reverb via XLR. Really usefull for example when you want to have power amp distortion but keep a moderate volume through your speakers. Or go through a tube preamp to a cabsim based on IR with power amp emulation. By the way, did you try the Synergy preamps?

@MikeSingSing Год назад

@@NathanNagel Yes, but feedback is different to the usual resonance stuff. It's either an essential part of your song or not. Just like every other effect.

@ERICKATERLE Год назад

The Bugera sounds surprisingly awesome. They are both excellent sounding amplifiers and useful for their purposes. The cabinet that the Bugera is plugged into is probably enhancing the sound of it.

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Glad you think so! It’s part of the reason for doing the vid. Little amp, nice mic, nice pre. Happy days!

@AnAmericanGuitarist Год назад

As always, two great guitarists with great insight and musical ideas to help make the points. In my experience, when the amp is loud I play the amp as secondary instrument because those harmonics and feedback inspire and move the emotional delivery of the music whether it's a heavy or cleaner sound. I prefer the loud amp when it is an option. I play the feedback and harmonics as two or three tiered notes instead of just playing the single note or single chord that I am playing. The guitar and amp become a combined instrument. The loud amp delivers more emotion to the guitarist and to the listener in my opinion. This translates to recordings with an increased depth of tone and adds to the musical atmosphere. It affects the emotion of a the recorded music that the listener later hears. The character of the guitar sound (bold, dramatic and extra harmonic or even, defined and thinner - both have their place) also affects the entire mix of the song. It affects how everything else sounds and how the guitar sounds within the mix. I have recorded near loud amps and used headphones and love it. I have recorded at the board with the amp in another room and found that to be more sterile most of the time. I have achieved useful feedback from being near the amp or from the the studio monitors. Feedback can be achieved through studio monitors even when recording a low or direct amp, but I treat monitors more gently than amp speakers. To me, an amp played at a volume where it opens up and turns the guitar and amp into one combined instrument is best. Deciding on the best way to record it is another subject.

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Thank you and, yep, we agree wholeheartedly about the instrument’ bit of the amp! Nice one, thanks for this!

@charleslambiase5670 Год назад

Coming from a creative bass players point of view.. who is about tone especially on fretless understands the thing about the characteristics of how feel of the sound affects the overall playing characteristics of us the individual a lot of people say it's not so much of what you hear it's what you're feeling and I'm not talking about volume wise when the tone isn't there which is why I'm always got headphones on when I'm practicing because I cannot turn my luxurious 70 Marshall Major which is my true tone or any of my other High Fidelity base amplifiers this is how I have to do it.... So used to recording all the time without amplifiers as well ,,, you don't get dance associated with the vibrations of the feedback of the notes from an amplifier it causes a problem but it's something that we have to deal with in reality excellent show fellows today 💜

@robertprice5039 Год назад

The Fulltrons rock in the Gretsch Jet! I have a Gretsch Broadkaster and Broadkaster Jr with the Fulltrons, and a Powerjet with the TV Jones Powertrons, and I love both of those pickups. Super versatile.

@darenanderson1960 Год назад

Dan, I’m borrowing that harmonic with the bend behind the nut slathered with gain and delay-very nice!

@darenanderson1960 Год назад

Well, I borrowed it and used it at band practice tonight. It didn’t sound remotely as cool as when Dan did it.

@scottakam Год назад

Thanks guys. I think this is one of those cases where if you want to get good at recording to a click with headphones and being creative, you have to work at it. A lot!

@justinguitarcia Год назад

Super interesting. I will say, though, at least in my experience, a big part that makes recording small amps interesting is recording small speakers. So perhaps that will be something to try out in the future! Thanks as always guys

@weschilton Год назад

Yeah that is a great point! Speaker size and type makes a huge difference in the sound.

@andrewchow6357 Год назад

I always love using small low watt amps runnings into a load box with IRs when recording. To solve the feel issue I have the signal feed to a mixer sent on to a good pair of OPEN back headphones (audeze lcd x) and cranking it up. Open back headphones is important as it gives you that space to what you are hearing. Additionally reverb is super important.

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

I'm a fan of the open backs too - Mick here. But you're still missing that harmonic/resonant connection of guitar and speakers. I find that when I do too much tracking and get into the quiet headphones thing, my loud playing goes all to hell. Then when I only play loud, I just can't play quit. It's so annoying! On the reverb front, I think that's why UA and Strymon have made sure there's room reverb easy to access. Makes ALL the difference when going direct I reckon. Cheers!

@andrewchow6357 Год назад

@@ThatPedalShow yeah totally agreed. my goodness, I need to invest in trying to soundproof my room so that I can crank up my Marshall and fender up, been playing with headphones for so long I ‘m so used to it I forgot what it feels like to stand in front of a rip roaring amp.

@davidtomkins4242 Год назад

There's no substitute for feeling the literal vibrations from the speaker, (picking up good vibrations....!) even if there needs to be a compromise on tone/fidelity for that. It's why you still can't beat a good 4x12 blasting away behind you

@chedhead3278 Год назад

Cheers guys, interesting as ever. A small/quiet amp raised up to chest height and played fairly close has worked ok for me, just need to mind the pick noise being recorded too. Acoustic is fine, you can feel it. Headphones only with electric though ... I'd really rather not. Stay cool. :)

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Nice suggestion. Bit of proximity!

@danielkrause7914 Год назад

Great video again guys! I feel this had less to do with the recorded sound as it did with the feeling of recording as a musician in a studio. I see a lot of comments on how it doesn't matter or it's better to go with IR loaders, which wasn't the point of the episode. I've recorded in quite some different ways, but it would never "feel good" without being in the same room as my amps at stage volume. I would feel very disconnected when the amp was in an iso room or I was in the control room...which made me play differently, just like Dan said as well. It just isn't the same. I usually treat recording as a live performance and for how I play I do need the interaction between the guitar and the amp...one step left and there's the feedback or such things, just like on stage. The final recorded sound is a totally different matter. I'm more of the "recorded great sound makes a good recording" than the "we'll fix it in the box" school. This all doesn't mean a Princeton or a Champ doesn't sound good, but it's not about the sound here...it's about feeling volume and the way it makes you play ;-)

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Yep, that’s exactly it! The tone is always subjective. The quality of the performance much less so. Cheers!

@coopscovers5119 Год назад

I wish the amps were in a different room to make a more realistic recording environment. Either that or put the heads through IRs. Still amazing to see you guys take on these topics in such a thorough way. Keep it up!

@matthewnew13 Год назад

What a cracking episode. I was enthralled. What sounded better? They both sound excellent to me!

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Excellent, thanks Matthew! Totally agree on the better thing. That part of it is all subjective. What’s much less subjective is a great performance!

@christopher-miles Год назад

...i see i've come to the right place. imho: i like these type of videos better since i struggle with this myself. foreshadowing; am i going to be impressed with the 5 watt amps? hahaha! rock-on! guys cheers

@weschilton Год назад

Great video! I was both surprised and not surprised by what I was hearing... there was definitely a huge loss of bottom end harmonics and richness when playing through the Bugera, but once you started layering pedals it actually held up pretty well. But what was really telling, was that you guys clearly felt WAY more comfortable playing through the Two Rock... this is the thing that is always lost in videos when people are comparing real tube amps to amp plugins, digital simulations or Katanas to Marshalls... yeah you can (sometimes) get the tone close, *in a recording,* ...but the experience of playing through that stuff is pretty uninspiring. A lot of the feel and tone is definitely in the volume, but with the digital stuff I think that louder volumes are when they really start to fall apart and sound unrealistic. Its just my experience and I know a lot of people love it... not me. I much prefer real tube amps and good speakers, and if I need to get softer I just use my UA OX and attenuate it down to a reasonable level.

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

We’d agree with that Wes. After many years of doing this, this video has reminded me that RU-vid demos are largely useless in conveying how somebody is going to like a product. In fact it might be the start of a mission and/or campaign. I want the world to understand they really can not and must not trust what they hear on RU-vid! From us included. Mick here. :0)

@BrizzleRocker Год назад

I'm so glad that it's not just me that doesn't "feel" right playing with headphones or quiet amps. I've tried everything from DI boxes, attenuators of various flavours and getting more expensive everytime but still I can't connect when playing through any of it vs me and my Vox AC30 in a room. Thank you.

@crflores76 Год назад

Loud amp gives “more harmonics “ and pick response to me, but maybe there would be to use a different “pedal setup “ to compensate….. Great video, hanks for share

@copperaudio9664 Год назад

Dan that Gretch and you make beautiful music together. The Tele is nice, but the Gretch is high fidelity.

@raybeeger1529 Год назад

I have a Mesa Boogie Lonestar Classic. My experience is that with lower power settings like the 10 Watt there is less punch in the bass and loudness but you can solve it by tweaking or with pedals.

@lordvermintide4441 Год назад

I was always of the impression that the point of these low wattage amps is so you can crank the master and get the power section cooking, without blowing out the double glazing. It's not really about actually being quieter, it's about getting more saturation at the same level. I have a 100W Marshall head, and a 5w Blackstar combo. Whereas the Marshall never goes above about 3 on the master, even in a full band situation (and I usually only play it through a load box for recording anyway), I can actually open up the Blackstar. At band practice I can have the volume fully gunned, and it *sings*.

@dennyjoshuar Год назад

Hearing a lot of Andy Timmons in that first minute and I'm here for it! 🤘

@Guidojackson1965 Год назад

Another class vid and I’ve just purchased the T shirt that Dan’s wearing. All phones should have a breathalyser for purchases in my humble opinion…🎸🙄

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Thank you Lefty!

@jesseyasaitis9036 Год назад

Some years ago, I built a cube out of three sheets of 4' x 8' plywood. I used some sound foam inside to deaden it. It's roomy enough inside to fit a 412 bottom and two low profile mic stands. I can get 105dB inside and with the door closed, it's only 70 outside it. Being in the basement of my house, I can record loud guitars even if everyone in the house is asleep. Get crafty and see what you can come up with.

@TheJonbevis Год назад

Would love to see you get Laura Mary Carter of Blood Red Shoes on the show. Greatest tone I've ever heard, she's running 100w Marshall with 4x12 cab alongside a 57 fender champ. With a few nice pedals chucked in for a huge sound. Women are really under represented on TPS! So we have a British woman that been playing all the festival's across Europe for the last two decades Opened up for the likes of Biffy Clyro, Jane's addiction. And in 2019 music radar named her as best alternative guitarist in the world.

@bobcatblooze Год назад

I bought one of those Bugera heads to tie me over whilst my old JTM head was been refurbed. I was surprised at how "alright" it was. I intended to quickly move it on after it had served its purpose but now keep it as a backup.

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

It's a great little thing!

@michaelclark5020 Год назад

You made the bugera sound really good

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Good mics, nice pres, adequate playing. It'll always sound good!

@bergsofcanada2757 Год назад

I can't get over how different these two amps seem to sound, not as a result of volume, but by design. Also, even if you had an amp with a 100 watt setting and a 5 watt setting, the sound difference would still manifest as the amp behavior is different. Very hard to have clear objective comparison. Yet I do appreciate this experiment.

@ThatPedalShow Год назад

Let the sound thing go Bergs, because it’s always subjective and it’ll always be different. It’s really about volume and feel. Cheers!