HOW MUCH HP IS AN INTERCOOLER WORTH? CHEAP, JUNKYARD M90 BLOWER GETS A TICK PERFORMANCE INTERCOOLER. 

It sounds cool but I'd highly doubt an air conditioner would have the throughput to cool the volume of air that an engine requires. Otherwise you'd hear about them a lot more. It's like trying to cool your computer with a freezer. Sounds good but in practice it's unrealistic.

agreed

Thnx-we know how intercoolers work

@@richardholdener1727 you think you do.

Allmost my man and maybe you just states it wrong and the concept is spot on but what the colder air does is allow the fuel to be burned more efficiently no actually providing power or anything on its self you could pump as much air as you want thru a engine if theres no fuel combustion theres no power at all and THATS what colder air vs hot air allows YES everything about the density os correct but what that increased colder air does is allow for better and all together more fuel to combust THUS giving more power.. Heres my 7th grade report on EXSACTLY this thanks to samsung i was able to take a picture and use it to extract all the text! . Both turbochargers and superchargers increase horsepower by forcing more air into the engine's combustion chamber, allowing for more fuel to be burned and, consequently, more power to be produced. However, the air these chargers compress gets very hot in the process, which can actually hinder performance. That's where the intercooler comes in. Here's why an intercooler makes a turbo/supercharged engine more powerful: Hot air is less dense: Hot air molecules spread out more, meaning there are fewer oxygen molecules packed into the same volume compared to cooler air. Less oxygen translates to less efficient combustion and ultimately, less power. Intercooler to the rescue: An intercooler acts like a radiator for the compressed air, using air or liquid coolant to significantly reduce its temperature before it enters the engine. Colder air is denser, packing more oxygen molecules into the same volume. Denser air = More combustion with = MORE POWER: With denser air entering the combustion chamber, more fuel can be efficiently burned, generating more power. The increased oxygen content also leads to a more complete combustion process, which further boosts power output. Additional benefits: A cooler intake air also reduces knocking (premature detonation) caused by high temperatures, allowing for increased boost pressure from the turbo/supercharger without detonation issues. This further translates to even more power potential. So, while a turbo/supercharger provides the muscle by shoving more air into the engine, the intercooler acts as the smart tuner, ensuring that air is at the optimal temperature for maximum power and efficiency. It's like adding a well-designed air conditioning system to the engine's intake manifold, boosting its performance potential. Here's a simple analogy: Imagine you're trying to fill a bucket with water. A pump can help you fill it faster, but if the water is boiling hot, it expands and occupies more space, meaning you can't actually fit as much water as you could with cooler water. An intercooler essentially cools down the "hot water" of compressed air, allowing you to pack more air and fuel into the engine's combustion chamber, generating more power. Im pretty sure if i got this in 7th grade richard gets it at least well enough to not need a 5rd grade lesson on air density and highschool auto class lesson on the workings of a combustion engine. You know theres those little kids in the background of every school yard fight, jumping up and down going YEAH! YEAH!...you where one of those kids huh?

@@AnnoyedGarterSnake-gh6vo thanks for the lesson buddy. I guess I must have skipped that day in 1981 when Dr. Newhouse was explaining intercoolers in ME403 class, Internal Combustion Engines, while I was on my way to my undergraduate degree in Mechanical Engineering. As Richard put it so succinctly, thanks, I think I know how an intercooler works.

You are incorrect about the M90-we have already more than doubled the factory power output. You won't find any factory 6.2l blowers or motors in junkyards. Please feel free to do what you want with your project.

It sure is!

I just wrote a similar comment in question format because I thought I was loosing my mind!

I need to phrase it better or you need to understand more-the point wasn't that there would be NO drop in pressure-the point was that this was too much of a drop for this combination of boost and flow and core size

@@richardholdener1727 gotcha. Yes the drop is greater than you would expect by just calculating the ratio of the two temperatures in kelvin scale.

exactly @@TurboBaldur

regardless of the temp drop-math doesn't tell you about the potential restriction

Gale never ran this intercooler with a junkyard M90 on a modified 5.3L-or maybe you forgot

​@@richardholdener1727 Jeez Rich take it easy on the poor guy 😂

Richard is jealous of Gale Bank's success.

I agree with the low buck approach (obviously). BTW- factory EFI motors don't usually run closed loop at WOT

True, good point.

The M112 would work of course, but you never find them in a junkyard!

M112 is bigger so it flows more-hard to find and more $

Sadly I'm carbed :( I gotta go big or go home if Im swapping to efi. Thanks Richard for the Brawler 750 Suggestion in previous videos. Happy to see you making new dyno content, this is a really fun project!

the first vid was my mistake

the point is just not this much

oil cooler does nothing to power, we have already run e85 with no cooler, max power on pump gas requires knock sensor

Also radius or chamfer the bottom edge of the spacer plate going into the cooler i.e. port the opening.

the flow rate of the opening in the plate is much higher than the V-shaped discharge coming out of the blower

already in the works

I have lots of stock vs shorty vs long tube header videos up

incorrect

@@richardholdener1727 I wonder if Tick Performance has any input on that intercooler core not doing it's job.

that is an excellent question

those blower pulleys sizes are unnecessary since we already have a 7.5-inch crank pulley.

Can we spin her up further and see what happens? 😂 I've got a machined snout with a pulley wrap kit that directly goes on the snout with mine.

@@hayden6056 the 2.6 pulley wouldn't go on if the snout wasn't already machined.

@@lifeishard1211 that's machining it for the pulley.... My snouts machined smooth the majority of the way to the base plate and then a CNC tensioner goes on to that machined part itself. Look up bazspec fabrication in Australia he does a lot of machining for anything m90.

not this much

Water/meth and some optimizing here and there I think puts 700 just barely in range. Rich might consider bumping the sc pulley size back up a bit and leaning on the high RPM horsepower of the NA engine which sort of sounds like cheating, but 700 hp is 700 hp

WM won't add power

it will if you actually lean the air fuel ratio from it being too rich. I remember when you tested a water/methanol kit to see if it made more power than an intercooler. it didn't because you didn't lean the afr. w/m has made more power in forced induction engines since 1945 but somehow it didn't when you tested it.@@richardholdener1727

the round coupler would be very big-but might work as a remote mount

Given the core has been tested at higher flow and power levels with less pressure drop-I feel you are incorrect about the boost drop and need for additional space between the plate and intercooler

@@richardholdener1727 If it was a turbo setup I would be in complete agreement with you Richard, but this supercharger isn't sending any extra air, and when the intercooler decreases the temperature of the charge, it is also decreasing the volume of the charge air. I.e. less boost by mathematical certainty. It's simply a function of the intercooler doing a good job.

The supercharger outlet is at one end. To get to the cylinders at the opposite end it needs to squeeze through that small gap between the intercooler and the spacer plate. Without the intercooler it had the open space of the high ram to get from the blower outlet to the far cylinders. And, manifold density is the real goal with forced induction. Hot air is less dense so requires more boost pressure to get the same density you can get with cooler air. That’s why chasing simple boost pressure numbers isn’t good.

if there is a restriction between the blower and the core-there is less airflow from the blower. If we eliminate the restriction, airflow should increase from the blower (blower flow is a function of inlet and outlet restrictions and blower speed). If we increase airflow, boost after the cooler should go up

@@richardholdener1727 Agreed Richard! It will be interesting to see what the real world outcome is on the dyno. After doing the math a bunch of different ways, it appears that the pressure has to reduce by .7psi from 5.6psi@162F down to 90F (about 12% pressure reduction for that temperature change). So if you replicate that non-intercooler result and then add in the core with the spacer, it seems to me that 4.9psi is the best you can expect. Will be awesome to find out for real!

this already has flat to pistons and milled heads and .041 gaskets

it's about 35-40 hp

that thing would crumble if you looked at it funny

we can use a low ram to bring it down

it's not from cooling-that is only a minor drop-this core had only .8 psi drop at 900 hp and 20+ psi

@@richardholdener1727 I don’t know about this one. Using gas laws and a temperature/pressure calculator, I estimated that with a 72 degree drop in temperature, the drop in pressure (in a sealed enclosure) would be around 1.72 psi. The formula is Pf=Pi*Tf/Ti. I think you’ll see an even greater drop in pressure when you use the whole core of the intercooler. More cooling = more shrinking. Air density increases, so there will be more oxygen even with less pressure. So it should still make more power. Pretty impressive that such a small area of that intercooler could drop the temperature that much.

@@FusionFab " I think you’ll see an even greater drop in pressure when you use the whole core of the intercooler" I don't think so because you are going to be passing the same (or nearly the same) volume of air through a larger area of the intercooler, so the pressure drop through the intercooler should be less.

yes exactly. this is what I was trying to say. the zzpoop intercooler doesn't have a big area like the intercoolers that we used back in the day made by SSEILMNOP, with phenolic. the area in-between the bbv and the blower outlet square was open with the phenolic intercooler.

doubtful

we don't have the factory ECU-no knock sensor

very well

two will obviously make more than 1-but this exercise right now is about trying to find out what we can get from 1 m90

they are the worst on skate boards

please see the many 3800 V6 vids I have up

Lol 😅

we should have very little drop across this core at this power/flow level, if we had been using all of the core

@@richardholdener1727 you could be using more of the core if you cut a bigger hole in the plate the supercharger is bolted to.

we did run that on the 3800

the one time I saw an intercooler being used in a N/A scenario, that engine lost power because it's more difficult for an engine to suck through an intercooler.

we see some drop-but not this much at this combination of low boost and flow (with this size core)

@@richardholdener1727 that makes sense, with these low boost numbers there's not a huge amount of heat to start with. Did you ever throw ice into the water for an air/water IC on the dyno?

I have ice water tests on the channel-it always works

I have vids up comparing WM to intercoolers

@@richardholdener1727 yes you do and you didn't give water/methanol the respect it should have gotten

no on interchillers

Whipples are like, 20x the cost of the M90 though. I'm here to see what The Little Supercharger that Could can manage!

not the point of this exercise

@@richardholdener1727 Or one of those supercharger and intercoolers out of a '03-04 Cobra or Lightning would be plausible

compression adds 3-4% of the na power output per 1 full point

What about moving / changing the cam for more dynamic compression?

then that is a cam change

we already considered that-raising would be better

You'll lose boost

we want to reduce boost before the core-but increase after the core-which is what should happen with a restriction

same size-different housing

an S475 is a 1000-hp turbo-so it makes the most

@@richardholdener1727 no I get that but I'm saying a compound set up with two intercoolers s475feeding m90. Cause correct me if I'm wrong but Roots chargers stack air right, so this means higher rpm with out maxing out m90

see the compound 3800 v6 video

@@richardholdener1727 I've been watching those but wouldn't it be a different result with a bigger displacement or is it basically just going to be a multiplication

only a little

the blower has already been in a vehicle for 200K miles

I think he said 168°F without and 90°F with.

Sorry, 162°F. Mentioned it at around 11:18 in the video

@@Nottherealme223 thanks, I missed that

​@blow0me it absolutely helps and the results speak for themselves. Just because guys "get by" without an intercooler at lower boost levels don't mean it's optimal. It's always gonna be cooler and make more with an intercooler even with low boost..

yes

@@richardholdener1727 its intresting test😁

thnx for the offer-but I have one. We know what a bigger blower does

that's a big change

@@richardholdener1727 it really needs an intercooler, but it's a winter beater

the bottom of the blower is stock-so it is right for this test.

it won't change power like the cooler

you forgot to subtract the power required to drive the blower-the formula only works for turbos

@@richardholdener1727 so you think it's taking 100 HP to run that little supercharger at 6 lbs ? ...... It also seems like to much boost for that NA high HP engine and only being a m90 .... Something about this run on this engine doesn't make good sense as compared to the smaller engine test ....

power consumption is based on blower speed, flow and pressure. The fact that there is only 6 psi when we near the end of the flow potential of the blower means power consumption will still be very high and it is at least 100 hp with this blower.

@@richardholdener1727 so I watched the 3800 video and took notes ... Used the superichie turbo boost power formula to figure out what it should have made in power and then subtracted what you measured in power and got interesting results ... With the 3.8 pulley it used 60 HP ... With the 3.4 pulley it used 70 HP and with the 3.2 pulley it used 90hp .... So 100 HP with the larger crankshaft pulley is right in line ..... Very interesting exercise

you need to come to the live feed where we discussed exactly that-but what YOU would do is not what this test is about

airflow is going to be the same regardless of the cam. the blower is going to output the same.

airflow from the won't be the same regardless of the cam-a stock cam will reduce flow from the blower to the motor and create more pressure and reduced power. Bigger cams will do the opposite

I disagree, the pulleys spinning are going to be the same regardless of the cam. @@richardholdener1727

@@richardholdener1727 The live feeds are pretty time consuming, I'm a busy family man and it's hard to squeeze in an hour or more into my schedule. 10-15 minutes like your non-live feed videos, that I can find time to fit in. Of course, the videos are not about me regardless, it's your channel.

we added 1 degree

@@richardholdener1727 are you gonna try a ice box?

I have ice water intercooler tests up on the channel

why not

@@richardholdener1727 To maximize your intercooler, can you mount the blower elsewhere and do a more centrifugal style piping and intercooler along with gaining vision and hood clearance like a side mount. still a budget supercharger just mounted differently

those were provided in the video

Found it thank you . Not sure how I missed it

I DID

Ha,,, I should have waited a bit? Thank you

yes it will

@@richardholdener1727 we shall see.

heaton!

They are used on some model blowers and are called a pcv bubbler port. They are at the lowest point in the blower manifold and function as a drain with no check valve to help prevent oil buildup that may collect in the intake track. The test is to somewhat simulate what power is being lost through that 3/8th port constantly pissing boost disguised as an oil drain. If you were to block the bubbler port on one of those model blowers, this test would simulate the types of gains or similar you may see.

@growasetalready ah got it. I think that's a bad idea,get rid of pvc,egr and put a good catch can setup and no need for a bubbler lol. Never heard of that bf,thanks for the information, much appreciated