Your videos are truly one of a kind, Josh! Thank you for featuring me in the thumbnail and highlighting our natural RU-vid community, it's a tremendous honor. Gaining 20-40lbs of muscle is realistic, but you're absolutely right here. The best advice is to stop stressing about genetics. Commit to the long game, as building a legendary natural physique takes time, likely more than five years. And even if you could achieve it sooner, why rush toward an arbitrary physique goal when we don't yet know our full potential? Keep learning, embrace the minor progression (1-2lbs of lean tissue here and there adds up), and never quit. Commit for decades, and one day you'll be shocked at how far you've come, surpassing even your original expectations.
Great genetics? Lift and do your best. Average genetics? Lift and do your best. Subpar genetics? Lift and do your best. Only time this really impacts things is when trying to be a professional at it. Lifting is great for you both physically and mentally, so you should be doing it anyway. Taking a process focused approach is way better than a results focused one, because at the end of the day, you just don't know till you put a lot of time and energy into it...which isn't going to happen if you don't learn to enjoy it. So enjoy it! Stay curious, stay humble, keep learning, keep growing, and you end up where you end up.
@@tonymontana3949you are incredibly stupid for thinking this. steroids weren't widely used, plus at the time Steve competed they weren't known to help in muscle building, they were using to treat hypogonadism and muscle wasting from war time imprisonment.
Looking good is awesome but the real goal is to not be an older person with health problems and dependent on medication. My dad is paying the price for not taking care of himself when he was younger and it is a big motivator for me.
@@gabadu529 He's an example of what a sedentary life can do to someone. Diabetes, Quadruple bypass surgery, nearly blind, can barely walk...it's pretty sad. Never exercised and only did office work all his life. I don't want to live that way.
@@brandonyoung4910 looking awesome doesn't = life without health problems, sometimes the most health conscious are the most unfortunate, also sometimes there's a point of diminishing returns. But obviously being in the best shape you can be aka maintaining 13-18% body fat consistently, and keeping artificial ingredients and vegetable oils to a low, while maintaining good exercise is all you can ask for
Glad to see alex getting his praise the man is wise like an owl and if every fitness person was as intelligent and honest the whole industry would be better
i’d never want to know how much muscle I can build. It would be like knowing how the movie ends without seeing it or knowing when you’re going to die. Enjoy the journey and never stop trying to get better
This is a great outlook and I agree. You can’t realistically “peak” unless you would link that term to winning a competition of some sort. There will always be things to improve for the rest of our lives.
After 2 years of training naturally the gains go at a crawl,almost to a standstill. The human body does not and will not hold hold more functional muscle than necessary it has no use for its all about maintaining after 2 years and doing something you enjoy.
Should have put George Hackensmidt in there. Put all of these dudes to shame IMO. 5'9 210 with abs and 18 inch arms apparently. The dude was an absolute unit before roids existed. Also great video
@@SeradjLarfi Sandow was 5'9 and 195lbs, Hackensmidt was 5'9 and 210lbs and noticeably fatter than Sandow.....ome could almost say 15-20lbs fatter......so like.....exactly what I said......
I just wanted to say that I purchased your program about 18 months ago and entered the gym for the first time. I now go 4 times a week, track my food, I'm 8kg heavier and I have lost 2 pant sizes. The original training video you made sent me on that path. I'm 33 years old, married with 4 young children and in the best shape of my life. I appreciate the help, Thank-you. keep up the videos.
Why are we just automatically believing that he’s natty at face value just because he says he is? I’m not saying he isn’t, but there’s no way to know if someone is natural or lying unless they provide loads of blood work and steroid tests to “prove” they’re actually natural, which I don’t think aDestiny, or any other online self proclaimed lifetime naturals have ever done
Natural bodybuilding shows are a joke now. Most are on TRT and did at least one cycle... And studies have shown one cycle and you get residual benefits for life
It's the same with all those natty influencers, who suddenly after years put on 10 pounds of muscle and cut down to 10-12% bf. The whole fitness industry is a joke.
You're overly cynical. We've seen many ex-natural bodybuilders, who looked amazing before, blow up once they actually hopped on. Most of these folks have been training consistently for at least a decade.
Depends on the cycle and how long you've been on. There's something called omeostasis and even tho you can actually gain 30lbs of muscle with a single cycle (I've personally seen a guy on 300mg test get around 38lbs of weight nearly all muscle in 16 weeks) your body will get back to it's ''normal'' form because it takes time for it to adapt to all that muscle tissue that you achieved. So yes you will probably retain some but most people who only do a small cycle and get 10/15lbs of muscle will probably lose most of it when they get off especially if it's a 6-8 weeks cycle. Your body takes time to set himself with that amount of muscle and hypertrophy is something that our body does not want since it implies more calories to retain and a higher metabolism/cardiovascular power output and we have now reached a level where food is not a problem but it has been for hundreds of thousand years and it has been just 60/70y that we can all afford to eat more than we actually need because of wealth and health parameters in our new society (after second world war). If your body knew that you're lifting something just to be more fit and pleasant to the eyes on the beach it would never grow, it does because in our genes we must adapt in order to survive but the body doesn't know you're benching, it only recognize stress and then knows that the next time you need more muscle to push/pull something and not die.
I've been lifting my 340-pound obese ass with my own two hands for 21 years as a paraplegic, then I leaned up. On the rare occasions I'm being asked by a layman to give some tips, they expect some weekend regimen to look like me in a few weeks. I needed to know everything there is to know about resistance training to get my nutrition right, to not lose muscle mass on a calorie deficit. I didn't. So I do have the knowledge to impart. People just don't want to hear how much time it takes naturally...
@@fifth5106 Leaner than 104lb? My pelvis and legs are atrophied to crap which accounts for up to 35% of a man's weight, and even so I am 172 pounds. I'd say your first order of business would be to get your nutrition straight, so you eat enough protein to be able to build muscle the first place. Metabolic needs require continuous adjustment of your caloric intake, based on weekly trends in weight (let's say a new calorie target every 20 pounds). Let's say you do everything right (and clean), you train regularly (without overtraining), many videos out there how to do both, I'd say you'd need 3 months of sticking to your nutrition and training religiously to see any results. Anything said in the video still applies, so what you do, how well you are able to stick to it, and your genes can both slow down, or accelerate your progress.
@@dominic.h.3363 my bad I meant like how long would it take for me to reach 140-150lbs but lean? Currently bulking and have been getting +120 grams of protein and hitting my 2400 calories a day all from meat, eggs, and other high-quality sources of nutrition.
@@fifth5106 About 125g of protein sounds right, but 2400 calories might be a bit too much for start at your current weight. I'm betting right now you're building more fat than muscle. If you are looking to gain fifty pounds (most of that in muscle), you're looking at 2-5 years (variability depending on your genetics, your diligence, your nutrition, and your training). The thing with bulking is that you can't expect to just only be able to put on muscle while you eat more. So leaning up, when your target is that high, is not on the table until you gained enough muscle mass that you are at the finish line. If you want VISUAL results faster, instead of one single huge bulk, do smaller bulks, and then just drop the excess fat you accumulated before you start another small bulk, but that will only prolong those years further and looking lean will be a periodic thing (just to check where you're at in terms of lean mass). I'd say ~8 years in this scenario. That's my (self-)educated guess...
"No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." - Socrates
@@Atomic_Pinneaple i disagree. Bodies respond to steroids differently, therefore, achieving something, even with the assistance of anabolic steroids, is still what your body is capable of.
0:59 if u look at the ancient greek statue's it is clear u can get big and masculer without taking anything...using the ancient greek pankration way... "How Did Ancient Greek Athletes Exercise? The Remarkable "Tetras" Routine" i think its just our current human society and a verry bad build up from a young age we can not reach it these days...verry simply said... the problem is our structure and our created society,a child today at school 8 hours a day on there school desks, and only 2 hours of sports a week, makes us lazy, weak, in ancient times your body was build up from a young age, not from the age of 16 just to score women.
Some of these guys coming up with formulas just makes me laugh lol. Height and centimetres -100 equals your weight in kilograms at five or 6% body fat. I’m 168 cm tall -100 is 68 kg. So about 150 pounds is the max I could weigh. I certainly think that most people think that a guy at my house can get up to 150 pounds or more natural if they have good genetics
I'm 58, have worked out since I was like 13 . I can make gains at a ridiculous rate when I want and maintain easily with just a few modest workouts a week. I'm just lucky that I got my maternal grandfathers genetics . He was built like an ape and constantly won bets doing feats of strength . I actually get asked if I am taking steroids often, but never have . I would consider it (through s doctor) if my quality of life was suffering but so far so good. My motivation is to feel great , and have FUN . I'm currently trying to see how defined I can get with lighter weights and calisthenics . In the winter I like to lift heavy and eat a lot and get big . "Something is Everything " is my favorite model . Just get in the habit , don't compare yourself to others and keep it fun . Longevity is the ultimate win .
I think the most realistic is looking at boxers pre-PEDS because they are not trying to be professional bodybuilders their body is a by-product of what they do. Back then they also had a layer of fat to be burnt off in the fight to give more stamina. Giving even more realistic goals and the answer there is not just can you look great. Boxers like Primo Canera put most steriod users today, to shame 260 - 290lbs all muscle and had the stamina for 10 - 15 rounds.
@@Jafmanz i dont dead lift because i broke my back a few years ago. also the rate of strentgh gain slows down exponentially over time. Im fighting for my life every year to go 5kg heavier at this point. I really should do a proper bulk
@@grasshopper3918 miniscule amounts maybe 10-30 lbs on most lifts. lower for accessories isolation. Then again I'm getting to the point where I question if I need to get bigger. Also I work on getting reps up on ever increment gained before moving up. When you train for so long you really are fighting for every lb added
something that got phased out of showing off the body from the olden times is muscle control. it wasnt the static posing they went for, but dynamically tensing and flexing muscles. It looks really cool
Amazing video bro, so easy to fall into the trap of thinking you need to take steriods/sarms/peds in general because of social media and videos like this keep me wanting to work harder naturally
I’m 36 years old, been training for 16 years, always been natural. I started in 2008 at 125-130 lbs, in 2 years I got to 170, I’m 5’9’’. As the years passed, I started eating better, getting better sleep, train smarter, stopped drinking and now I’m at 160 and honestly I look way better then I did at 22 at 170 lbs. so yeah even though you stop gaining weight and mass, you keep improving. I love the grind, I’m addicted to it, can’t wait to see what 40-50-60 years old will look like for me 💪🏼
I'm more of a fan of working an efficient/practical body than a purely aesthetic body. I prefer to “train my body” (have fun) by cycling, climbing, swimming, playing soccer or basketball games (when I was younger skateboard) with my friends than in a gym. If I want to have a body that works, it is first and foremost so that I can enjoy life. Creating memories with my friends. And I have nothing against people who only work on aesthetics, it's just a personal inclination.
I thin the sky is the limit with natural bodybuilding. We have lots of U.K. guys who are yoked without any steroids such as Simeon Panda, Mike Thurston and Matt does Fitness. I think it’s safe to say the next generation will be bigger still !
Steve Reeves was natural. He's written multiple books on the subject and claimed natural throughout his life in an era where steroids weren't illegal or as stigmatized as today. Also, the form of testosterone available in the late 1940s was hepatotoxic and wouldn't be in use for long by anyone (if they could even get it), and the safer forms didn't exist until the 1950s when he had retired from bodybuilding and downsized for the movies. The main reasons people think he wasn't natural are his proportions (since his waist was so small relative to his frame) and some inflated measurements online (like how he supposedly had a 52" chest when it was 48" at the 1947 Mr. America). At the 1947 Mr. America, his arms were 17.5" and his waist was 31" (not 29"), and he got bigger in the offseason. He was never below 11-12% bodyfat, you don't see detail and vascularity like you do amongst today's natural pros. Steve has claimed his arms were up to 18.5" which I can certainly believe if he weren't in contest condition. Guys in that era prioritized arm training. If you look at Steve objectively, his back and chest were underdeveloped by today's standards. His shoulders were pretty good, but there are naturals today with much better shoulders (esp side and rear delts). In regards to lower body, Steve also had no glutes or hams, he was mostly quad and calves. I just don't get why everyone thinks he's sus. I think it's just a lack of standards in modern natural bodybuilding and ideas put forth by young, inexperienced lifters who aren't physically mature or have never been around athletic people. It seems the black pill crowd thinks anyone who is the least bit muscular and dominant looking is on gear.
Testosterone propionate, an injectable form of testosterone still used today, which is not hepatotoxic, was first commercialised in 1937. 1940s guys were likely the first fake natties. Grimek, Reeves, all of them.
Yeah, I also think Reeves was natural. The possibility of him having access to usable anabolic steroids is much less likely, than people realize. His arms were his genetic strongpoint, and like you said, his training included a lot of arm stuff.
Small traps were the style back then, it was thought that big traps would make your head look too small. He also was the "man with no ass" as big glutes were not considered aesthetic at the time either. His programming indeed had tons of arm volume, when I emulated his program for several months that was when my arms suddenly blew up in size.
Agreed his mother was a nutritionist as well. Testosterone was available at the time but wasn't widely accessible and not very effective. I was until Nilevar that we started to see enhanced body builders in the late 50s.. Bill pearl (after he retired from competing) is a good example.
Such a well put together video Josh! Honoured to have been included. I hope this gives people the motivation to find out what they can do for themselves :)
Great Video! After 5 years of constant training with ever switching/improving technique and taking care of my nutrition i am starting to reach a physique that outshines at least 95% of the people in my gym. Apart from creatine i am 100% natural, however i am starting to get the feeling that the others think i am on stuff. I dont know what to think about it yet or how to react. If i could i would like to tell them all about training technique, nutrition etc. so they could reach that goal too, but you can tell they don't want to hear that. They seem to feel more comfortable about themselves putting you into the unnatural category whilst they themselves are far from unlocking their true potential. It is frustrating but also complimenting in a way. I am just gonna stick to my workout and have fun as i always did. Just wanted to share this experience of mine.
Some people are just impatient ie the 19 year olds doing 6-12 month transformations where they get super jacked unrealistically fast. People want things now and doing it natty takes fukn years and years. And another thing is people just wanting to reach a level that is unobtainable naturally. You know, wanting to be Sam Sulek sized or some shit. We really gotta ask ourselves with that shit, why? Why would I need that unrealistic body that doesn’t even exist in nature.
sympathised steroid yes was being looked at in the 1930s but was not invented till World War II as it was used as a medication for soldiers who were wasting from malnutrition from the war, it late 1940's more closer till 1950's it was been considered for sport
so true, im only 20 years old at the moment, very happy with my physique, advance level strength, but there is so many areas in my physique that can be improved (arms, calfs, halmstrings, neck, forearms, hands, specific muscles on my back, upper chest. I find it hard to believe I will ever not have somewhere I can make more gains, and even if there comes a point where I cant build more muscle, I will most definitely be able to learn new skills, to be stronger and make my muscles more efficient even without more growth
I trained from my teens and reached my natural limit my my late 20's. (im 46 now as per my pic and smaller with more body fat) But back then I made most of my significant gains when I was around 22-23 then had another spurt around 26. Newbie gains were good but they were not the most significant gains i made in my journey in terms of my overall physique. I also learned during that time most people dramatically underestimate just how big you can get naturally if willing to put the work and effort in
9:14 Eric Helms is not a lifetime natty. He openly admits to taking Superdrol in the past, but identifies as a natty anyway, and competes in natural bodybuilding because it's not against the rules of the competition.
I have naturally prominent Pectorals and triceps and used to be asked frequently if I took steroids. I was under 125 pours at 5'3 in my early 20s and am now at 45 yo around 140 (with more fat but I cut down from 150 in the past tree months.) I beat that if get back to the same body fat I had, people would doubt me again. It's all about looks.
Have you ever asked the question if it was healthy to have that much muscle or that much bodily trauma from lifting so much or it causing health issues and is it potentially shortening your health and life span?
At 2:05 he is not REG PARK he is Richard Baldwin and he is 80 years old alive now he was a golden era bodybuilder. Now I have to see your videos with a grain of salt. REG PARK was the guy who Inspired ARNOLD
I started at 62kg (136lbs) and 21 years later I'm at 112kg (247lbs) and 100% natural. That was from 18 years old to 39 but I am 15%-17% bodyfat and when I started I was 12-13%. To gain muscle without being 5% ripped isn't as much of a challenge as keeping that low BF% as your body is always trying to fight against being that low with Test levels dropping 'naturally' due to that very low BF%.
This is real fact that you can easily reacj your height - 100 cm. I train 15+ years without steroids. You can see some of my excercises on the channel.
This is very motivational man, thanks for making this video as I have body dismorphia but no way will I ever use steroids. This puts my mind at ease a bit knowing that with enough time and effort I can still look good ❤ love bro 👌🏻
The answer is very if you have the right genetics for example the most incredible pre-steriod physiques I've seen from a mass point of view is Primo Carnera a boxer who weighed 263lbs in 15 round fights he was all mucle as well and in 10 round fight he came in at 293lbs. He was getting to weights that even modern athletes cannot get too without significant fat levels.
My conclusion is, just keep up the work, keep learning, keep eating right, get enough rest, eventually, the muscle will grow and the shape will be awesome.
I've always been a really hard gainer, but I did improve when I discovered the best way to train was not going at it every day, doing the same exercises over and over. Discovering breathing squats helped me immensely. Now here's the point of my making this post: I only ever really gained as a result of a series of happy coincidences, when I was training properly while undergoing what we colloquially call "growth spurts". At 13 we have the initial puberty growth spurt, and I had just begun fooling around with weights in the eighth grade in high school. We also had weights at the local Boys Brigade HQ at our suburban Baptist Church. I was the absolute weakest boy going in, but not for long! In my ninth grade year, the high school built us an outdoor gym, in the hope that the guys would make use of it and so help themselves to play better football. But the tall poppy syndrome being what it is meant that nobody wanted to stand out and so they didn't go near the gym. I, however, feeling the need to become ever more bigger and stronger because I was a loner and school was an extremely violent place for someone like me, relished every moment I could spend at the outdoor gym. Pull-ups, parallel bar dips, going back and forth on the horizontal ladder every lunch time, then racing home after school to lift the weights I'd bought following year ten, I came back from school holidays looking noticeably bigger. The next growth spurt occurs at age 17 - 18 years of age. I had discovered breathing squats just in time to really take advantage here and I gained 35 POUNDS of solid muscle in just four months, following a program I found in Iron Man Magazine. I followed Bradley J. Steiner's program to the letter and not only got huge, but unbelievably strong as well. I mean, I had been the strongest guy at school, including all the teachers, and my strength put the fear of God into anyone who foolishly picked a fight with me . . and believe me, my high school musta been full of fools!! . . by the time I was in my senior year. But by the time I finished that program I was a man to step aside for, even at just 18 years of age! After I finished that program I didn't know what to do next, so I just kept on training hard on the basics with almost nothing to show for it because the growth spurt was over. Keep in mind that I didn't have a clue growth spurts were even a thing back then. I put it down to sheer luck! I may have gained a small increase in size and strength over the years between 18 and 24, but nothing to write home about. I tried my hand at bodybuilding, with limited success, even in the novice division, which I never got good enough to leave!! Then I was approached by a guy at work who desperately wanted to become bigger and stronger. He came to my dungeonesque gym three afternoons each week for ten weeks and we trained together. We weighed ourselves at the beginning of the training cycle and again at its conclusion, but he just vanished without a trace mid cycle because he'd been sacked from work due to cutbacks. I weighed 90kg, and he weighed 65kg. We did breathing squats with maximum poundages, bench presses to failure, and bent over rows to failure, and that was it! Oh, and immediately after the breathing squats we did breathing pullovers. Then my wife came downstairs and counted the reps for me, and spotted me in the bench press. Mid-way through the training cycle I added seated triceps extensions and concentration curls, one set each, performed after the big three. Well, how did I go? At the end of the ten weeks I weighed 102kg! I was squatting 150kg for 20 reps in the full squat too! Now I wasn't concerned with definition because I had all but abandoned any thought of ever being lean again. I was so impressed at how wonderful I felt as a big dude with power to burn! After a disastrous return to bodybuilding for one last tilt, at the urging of the guys at work, I was down to 80kg, and kinda-sorta defined, and I gave up for good at being a bodybuilder, and threw myself full speed ahead into Powerlifting . . which I shoulda done at age 18 when the fist big growth spurt had seen me grow so big and strong that I was keeping up with the powerlifters at the YMCA where I trained back then. But, I wouldn't be told that no one can be a successful bodybuilder unless they go on the gear big time. I believe there was one last growth spurt that happened to me at age 31. I was fully into Powerlifting and wanted to get as big as possible, so I made one last attempt at using breathing squats, this time with a difference. I wanted to emulate my hero Joseph Curtis (J.C.) Hise, who used to do 20 reps with 400 pounds, 182.5kg. I began training for this with just 11 reps on 190kg, and worked my way up, one rep per week until I did 20 x 190 on New Years Eve 1984. A few of my powerlifting buddies came over (I trained at home and had coached all of them at one point or another in the preceding couple of years) to spur me on, and I was hugely motivated to succeed. I did 'em, and it nearly killed me!! I took almost 20 minutes to stop huffing and puffing after I racked the bar! I was weighing 102kg at that time. The breathing squats had produced nothing in the way of increased size. Why? because I was not undergoing a growth spurt, that's why. But a few weeks later I noticed myself growing bigger once more and by late February of the year I turned 31, I was weighing 112kg. Amazing! And considering I hadn't been training for the Powerlifts due to my working on the 20 x 190, I was astonished at how well I did at a local meet in February, with PRs in every lift! That was the best year of my life since when I turned 18. I squatted 300kg in my home gym, and totalled 700kg in competition weighing 110kg on August 31st 1985. I'll make mention of the fact that I was doing a physically demanding job as a truck driver and warehouse man from age 28 through to age 43. I competed all through the 1980s, the latter half of which, in the newly-formed Australian Drug-Free Powerlifting Federation, in which I held the committee position of coaching and refereeing coordinator, elected unopposed, because I'd already helped so many lifters anyway before Drug-Free had been a thing. I wrote the federation's rule book as well, again with the unanimous support of the members. So, after taking far too long to get to the point of this comment, I just wanna say thank God for growth spurts!!
4:41 did he come straight from the set of The Last Of Us? The message here is basically: "don't worry too much about your genetics... Worry about the effort you put into it. Consistency and good healthy habbits. Regardless of peds because you still GOT TO put in the work". So the good old basics essentially. All equally important. 1. Resistance training 2. quality food 3. sleep Bonus - 4. lifestyle & happiness (i think it matters alot and contributes to a major part of it) Josh. NEVER stop producing the quality content you put out. Your content should be used in lectures for people in general.
A doorman for my building wants to start taking PEDs. He has only be lifting for four months. People are jumping the gun when they could make great gains with just diet and time. I used to be a wrestler so I am used to training, but my diet is shit these days outside of hitting the protein macros and taking creatine for the first time, I have a ton of injuries and am lifting casually and am still making solid gains. One thing that is helping me a lot though is going to physical therapy once a week
@josh brett, maybe this might interest u "How Did Ancient Greek Athletes Exercise? The Remarkable "Tetras" Routine" AMO Pankration I also think that wrestling against other men and the tension of the whole body with this is seriously underestimated
We live in a fast pace world driven by consumption and numbers. Most people are impatient and never want to work hard and wait for the results to come in so they start skipping. In Germany we also have some insanely gifted and hard working natural Bodybuilders like Patrick Teutsch who look insane and went the natural route. Its doable and worth it, despite the genetics.
7:45 This guy seems to forget that Kai did porn (reason why it was impossible for him to ever win Mr. Olympia) to fund his bodybuilding and its also possible to use steroids for free.
Your videos are so good that they deserve to be watched on a 65" TV while eating popcorn! Your quality is mindblowing, Josh! (There's just one thing I want to point out, Alex's surname is Leonidas, not Leonadis 😅)
Being bigger than someone doesn’t mean you take steroids. There are those who take steroids and by looking at them you’d never knew as they have a below average or average physique. I do believe he thought Tom was on steroids due to him being in Hollywood and the rapid rates of muscle gain these actors often take in short amounts of time
In my first year of really working out hard I gained about 15.5 pounds of muscle. I got injured shortly after and had to take a break quite some time. I recently started getting back into working out and I was able to gain about an additional 4 pounds after 5 months along with some of my best strength gains ever
