How New Republic citizens viewed the Imperial Remnant 

Who is Palpating?

​@@DMSProduktions The SENATE!

@@gigamoumantai2696 LOL!

Palpating!!!!

@@nofacedgoldfish6216 Very funny!

This is definitely an underrated comment

I came here to say that.

THANK YOU!

The former Rebels (Hera, Leia and Mon Mothma) are aware. Senator Ziono, who admitted to not being a part of the Rebel Alliance, is not. Based on the glance the two other senators made to each other when Hera called out Ziono about not taking part in the war, I think the same can be said about those two. The only reason Mon Mothma isn't siding with Hera is because she's trying to appear impartial to prevent the government of just making her another Palpatine. Why do you think she allowed the obvious fabrication of Leia approving the mission knowing full well that she hadn't.

To a lot of people, the idea of the Empire transforming from the dictatorship that's everywhere to a scattered insurgency would just be so alien as to be inconceivable.

"Ironic"

The Imperial Remnant in Legends still had fully active fleets, major shipyards, multiple SSD scale warships and held significant territory. They were a legitimate threat, even when most of the Empire had fractured into Warlord States. Hell, in Legends, the Empire long outlives the Republic under a new Imperial Dynasty, descended from the Skywalker-Solo and Antilles families.

That’s kinda cool. His empire was kept together by sheer willpower.😂

Called Battle Meditation however it isn't the complete end all be all unless your greatly outskilled and outman.

@@Nubin2000 Maybe when a Jedi does it but Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy established that Sidious micromanaged and the Imperials were unknowingly dependent on it like like prescription pills they didn't even know they'd taken.

The Battle Meditation boosts the performance of the local Fleet at Endor. Not in the hole Empire. Palpatines aprupt death caused a backlash to the fleet at Endor. The empire collapsed because of the ambitions of local warlords who took advantage of the power vacuum. Although the Emperor was powerful, he was not Sauron.

@@Emperor-Revan You're probably right regarding the entire fleet vs the Endor fleet but Palpatine likely had as much control over a hundred regional officials and Moffs that he kept in constant conflict with each other. No way they'd function together without him around.

It's a big galaxy.

The empire will rise again!

it reminds me of what nazi germany was doing in the the 1930s when they were re-arming their military doing it straight under everyone's noses, and not gathering any suspicion.

The New Republic won't try to fight an Empire's Ghost in the Outer Rim and Unknown Regions. The Imperial Remnant seems like nothing but burning embers of a dead empire until the First Order.

more like platoons and companies, at best...

Something tells me, even if Hera had proof they would just cover it up, or imprison anyone whom threatens/won't drop the imperial remnant topic much like when the Jedi order during dookus youth they would cover up any sith findings and proof the Jedi found or imprison those that threatened their duluded mind of the sith being completely extinct. Perhaps I am wrong, but as Allen had said a lot of the new Republic don't want/afford another war, so there's no telling how far they would go to cover up any evidence or continue the illusion that there's no more Empire so yeah I see this similar to "Jedi orders arrogance"when the Jedi refused to believe that any remnant of sith had actually survived, instead of investigating as Galadriell had made Gandalf to make sure Sauron was destroyed as everyone in middle earth believed he was.

Based fish Republic

True, fish is also how a view the golem from Spyro from dawn of the dragon before it eats him like a bigger fish...XD idk I wanted in a way to fit a Spyro joke here...XD well if it’s gonna be weird I’ll might as well a random weird Spyro joke.....Spyro butt....XD there ya go now I made it weird 😱😉😝😏😂😜

didnt Plagueis pay for starting costs? because how could republic pay for something they got 0 clue it even exists?

@@villekuronen6242Sifo used Jedi funds, which the Jedi got from the republic, to pay for the clone army. Neither party of the Republic knew they were buying a slave army.

The New Republic is so desperate for "peace" that they bury their heads in the sand so they don't have to see any threats. These senators think as long as they say the Empire is gone, it will stay gone. They willingly ignore these threats because they aren't willing to fight anymore.

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@SpottedHaresPlagueis payed for the Clone Army himself (through a lot of banking dealings I think, it’s been a while since I read the book). Sifo only ordered the army, because Palpatine and Plaguies thought it would be more convincing to the Kaminoans if the order came from a Jedi of the Republic rather than some random banker. They even told Sifo that they would foot the bill.

At this point in Star wars, if you dont see them die or the corpse some, the writers will bring them.back, hell even getting stabbed BY A GODDAM LIGHSABER can be completly healed in a day...

in a well functioning feedback loop, if politician does bad job he gets fired by electorate and replaced by someone better - trouble is when the feedback loop breaks - politicians develop hardcore electorate loyal to them, fed by propaganda machine...

What?! She took her own ship and five fighter to check where a hyperdriver was taken?! Better send an entire fleet we denied to her after her to get her. F-in idiots

They're afraid of the fact that she could be right and don't want to face to facts that another war is coming

@@013wolfwarrior Spoken like a true Liberal Arts major. Did you even watch the whole video? Also, the word of the day is "proofreading".

@@013wolfwarriorShe disobeyed a direct order given to her by people in the government, and on top of that brought (I forget the exact amount cause Ashoka sucks) 5 x wing pilots and x wings with her. She practically stole the x wings away from their assigned duties and took with her pilots. Whilst a fleet is def overkill for getting back such a group of people, Hera syndulla has plot armor, so if you brought just one large-ish ship then the new republic woulda lost If she is allowed to do this and get away with it, what’s to stop other high ranking officers from doing the same and just taking military assets and doing what they want? And on top of this, idk about you, but if I was also a general in the new republic and proposed an idea for a mission we could do which would inevitably be denied. If I saw that Hera syndulla here gets to do something without permission, i would become to some degree discontent and distrustful of my government.

Does he have any easily articulatable points that you could give as sample summary examples? Because being told "oh just go away and read these two books" without even a hint of how they differ from existing ideas about them sounds like a lot of homework for no guarantee of a reward.

@@Capt.Thunder Do I have a one-sentence sound bite that makes my point clearly and articulately? No. But here's this, taken from an auto-generated transcript of the interview he gave on Leading, which aired July 9, 2023: Alastair Campbell: Now, Frank, I I don't do an interview when I'm being interviewed rather than interviewing as we are now, I don't do an interview of longer than five minutes without the interview. I did one this morning with a Belgian newspaper without the interviewer saying at some point. “Now, I really must ask you about your role in the lead up to the Iraq War” And then, and I go into autopilot. And so I feel your equivalent Rory mentioned in the introduction is your book and this phrase, The End of History, and Rory mentioned Hagel and I believe the phrase was, was originally his. Francis Fukuyama: Yes. AC: So what, what did you, first of all, what did you mean? Secondly, has it surprised you the extent to which you have become so attached to this one phrase? And what has that whole process kind of taught you both about yourself and about the world? FF: Well, OK, so just to to turn the autopilot on *all laugh*, so what was the end of history? You know, history with a capital h you would probably describe in other terms as modernization or development today. And the question is, is there a progressive evolution of societies over very long periods of time that leads to certain forms of institutions? And my answer to that back then and today is yes that I do think that there is a coherent process of modernization. And I think people that don't believe that should go live in Guatemala or Myanmar or some other, you know, very poor chaotic country. That doesn't have, you know, the advantages and opportunities that Britain or the United States or Canada, many other countries offer. So that's the basic meaning of history. And then the end of history is where does that process look like it's headed? And for many decades, the Marxists said it's headed towards communism and there will be a higher form of civilization that will displace, you know, what they call bourgeois, a democracy tied to capitalism. And my argument was, I don't see that higher stage. I, I don't see a preferable form of government and I think right now the only rival, right, that seems plausible is China, which is definitely authoritarian, it's quasi capitalist, but they've certainly been very good at providing stability and growth. But is that actually going to displace, you know, the Democratic model? I have my doubts about that, but I'm open to the possibilities. Rory Stewart: Frank, can I come in just to reinforce Alistair's question? And Alistair of course, often makes jokes at his own expense that his obituary is going to have the word Tony Blair in the title and probably Iraq in the first line. And you achieved extraordinary fame in your late thirties, I guess you were sort of 37 38 when the first article at the end of history came out and it's still something that literally I can stand up in almost any the audience in the world mention you in this book and everybody's heard of it. What does it mean for someone's life to be, as it were, defined in your late thirties? And you're now talking to us when you're 70. What, what, what's the psychological experience of this? FF: Well, look, I've learned to get over the, the frustrations that a long time ago, when I post something on social media or elsewhere, I almost never read the comments because inevitably somebody's gonna say, “oh Mr end of History, you know, what about this? What about that?” And, you know, it's been going on for more than 30 years. And so I, you know, who needs it? You know, I do think in terms of my subsequent career, it's been actually a great boon because, you know, it got me a good academic position. I could write, you know, so I've written a total of 10 books. Now. I actually think that the two volume series I did on Political Order was really my effort to rewrite the end of history with much more knowledge about the world than, than I had when I was in my thirties. And, you know, I made some corrections. And I think that, you know, most people on Twitter have not worked their way through those 1000 pages. *laugs* But I think that, you know, in terms of the, you know, the more elite perceptions of what I stood for, that may count for more than the meme that's out there. AC: But in terms of how you explained it and defined it and how you were defining it at the time, you've kind of not been proven wrong. FF: I don't believe I have because I think if you take a long term view of historical progress, you do get these setbacks and, and, and recessions. I mean, you think about what happened in the 19 thirties, collapse of democracy in Germany was a much bigger development than anything that's happened in the last 10 years. And then the world managed to recover. And even, you know, in the sixties and seventies, you had military coups all over the developing world, all over Latin America and that got reversed. So I just think that you can't make these big judgments based on the experience of the last 10 years.

@@FancyHatProductions I appreciate you taking the time, thank you. It was interesting. I do find it funny that it's Tony Blair's spin doctor and one of the cringiest Blairite members of the Tory party who are doing the interview. That said, I've read quite a lot of different authors, including the Elite Theorists, and I think that Fukuyama's take is still rather flawed from what he describes it as here. The reason why liberal democracies established themselves throughout the world is not because they're a better or more effective system, it's because the current world hegemon (the USA) wants it that way and has a massive amount of both soft and hard power influence, which it exercises regularly. To quote Henry Kissenger: "To be an enemy of the USA is dangerous, but to be an ally of the USA is fatal." The incentive structure is to appease the hegemon. Those that don't wish to play along are rallying around Russia and China in a bid to build a counter-network that is resilient to USA pressure, with so far only limited success. Western liberal democracy, as we have it, has been around for barely 100 years at this point in its current form (i.e. with universal suffrage), and in most countries around the world it has been around for noticeably less than that (nor do they have as robust institutions as we do, although you could argue that our institutions are also better at hiding their corruption). We've barely begun this liberal experiment, so it's quite laughable to suggest that this is the system that is the indisputable default, especially when he attributes it to the system's merit. I mean, have you seen the absolute joke-like state of western democracies these days? I'm not convinced it's working very well at all.

Taking in consideration that Hera partially accomplished her mission with the personal ship and 4 starfighter it sound hollow as reason. Expecially after the troubles in Mandalore including Moff Gideon escape that clearly point to spy among the NR and the scandal in Corellia that Hera and Ashoka just discovered. The problem with the map is that in that condition you need expert and time to obtain some data otherwise is just an old piece of junk and regarding the scan, i think that Xiono and the other Senators will have found other reason to dismiss them, frankly the entire hearing give the vibe of an old italian saying: non ci stà peggior sordo di chi non vuole sentire there is no worse deaf of somebody that don't want to hear

@@lukedalton It doesn't matter if the evidence would take a while to analyse, the point would be that she can show that she has what she believes to be evidence, rather than saying: "Yep, I did this for NO REASON your honour! Court Martial me harder, please!" And who cares if there is a spy in the senate? Who cares if it's Generation Tech's uncle? He is still making perfectly good points. You wouldn't be telling the Imperials anything that they don't already know about the Imperials' own plan. Just show it. Show the hyperspace ring and it jumping to hyperspace. Show the trajectory of the ring. Show the map. Literally there is no excuse for her ridiculous behaviour.

@@Capt.Thunder the fact that there is a spy in the senate is not for Hera to not say anything but for the senators to use their braincell as it's a sign among many that things are fishy enough to warrant an investigation. There is no map, the map is gone the artifact is just some fancy junk that had millenia thanks to Baylan lightsaber, sure Hera can say that's a map but at this stage is just her words as there is no way to confirm this. Regarding showing the scan of the wing, ok what you are showing that someone that you don't know had created a ring that had go somewhere as they don't have a damn mean to trace them hell even the hyperspace lane that they have used are so difficult to get that only the Purgill can access it unless you have the map and the mean to use it. But frankly Hera can bring Thraw himself to the hearing and it will have not changed anything, Xiono and all the others don't want to hear that troubles are coming and so there is nothing that Hera can say that can make them change their minds and she know that, so she take some shot as she know that the verdict has been already written well before.

Same. I mean the resemblance is uncanny.

Legit first thing that I thought when seeing the senator

I love hearing about the slog bureaucracy of the “efficient” empire while having thousands of bureaucrats filing data

This is America…

Democracy ALSO means listening and doing what the people want you Dragon Butts must know that by now...XD yes I made an immature spyro dawn of the dragon reference insult XD MUHAHA 😈🔥😆😏😝

⁠@@Golems_wrathAnd sometimes, the people are wrong. Like with slavery, for example. Or racism. Or genocide. That's why it's better to have them vote for a representative who is willing and able to represent their constituents’s interests while being able to put their foot down when they ask for something that is: A: Illegal B: practically impossible Or C: something that might sound good in the short term but will hurt them in the long term.

@@Lobsterwithinternetthat's absolutely true. Also hopefully my spyro butt joke was funny....XD I know it's immature lol. But it's true spyro does have a nice butt in dawn of the dragon....XD no wonder the golem wants to eat him and realistically would XD yummy XD it's not fault the developers were sus XD

@@Golems_wrath.…..🦞

@@Lobsterwithinternet The issue is that in a democracy everyone who gets power (politicians) are people who greatly desire power. Most people who want power don't want it for noble reasons. Most want the power to feel superior to others. Even those who may go into it at the beginning with high ideals will have to compromise and make deals with compromised people. Power also has its own tendency to corrupt. Over time corruption tends to fester and grow until the whole system is consumed by it, and it breaks down into authoritarianism and dictatorship. Now what you want may exist in the theory of a Constitutional Monarchy, where there are elected representatives but ultimately the Monarch must give assent to anything and is the commander in chief of the armed forces.

The sequels arnt canon

You don’t think the government that was restored version of the government that willingly became the Empire would be stupid? You have watch anything from Starwars right?

@@SpottedHares False equivalence. Your characterisation conflates a description that works equally well for post rebellion events in Legends with the fact that most of the story, character and narrative changes in canon are just schit.

​@@joshtaylor9626 sorry dragon butt...XD they canon XD take that Spyro dawn of the dragon reference insult joke XD. Actually oops it’s accidentally a compliment since TBF Spyro in that game has a nice butt...XD why’d I make that joke because sometimes being mature is boring XD also I can guarantee y’all said weirder jokes than me XD also they canon even if you hate them.

Because that doesn't fit the Black-and-White morality of the original trilogy where the rebels were unequivalently good while everyone who supports the Empire were all as evil as Palpatine was.

Learn to use paragraphs

Moff Gideon didn't have a factory that was a research lab and he didn't have a Star Destroyer that was a light cruiser

Holy fucking shit, you made an essay! I’m genuinely shock and surprise by this honestly. Who knew watching Star Wars would lead to an interesting insight of Star Wars Politics.

Because the New Republic isn't worthy of that saying.

Even in Legends, the New Republic was basically 'losing the peace', and hell it did it worse than *_DISNEY CANON'S_* New Republic (basically, take the current New Republic and jack it up to 200). A revolution like the Rebellion has to be led by Machiavellian Pragmatists, not idealists with a somewhat rose-tinted view (at best) of the government they're trying to restore.

Goes to show what happens when you're dealing with Black and White storytelling.

Frankly operation cinder is pretty much on character thinking of Palpy and is a reference of RL 'Nero Decree' by Adolf Hitler

Ikr the Galactic Civil War lasted 15 years in Legends while the Empire fell in one year in Canon.

I think it makes some sense with like operation cinder and palpatine fully pulling out all major imperial assets or blowing them up where it legends they all immediately went to do their own thing

I don’t know considering how incompetent empire is portrayed it seems like as much of a stretch to think they last 15 years.

@@SpottedHares which empire pre or post Endor?

@@josephmeli4079 But it really doesn't. It's like saying the British had ten times the forces at Dunkirk, enough to hold a big chunk of mainland Europe only they themselves blew up and killed 90% of their own forces and then withdrew in "Englands Darkest Hour" just to lull the Nazis into a false sense of security. That's just asinine.

You can have that: By reading the books.

poor writing

You do know similar things to this happened in real life, right?

That's why I say we need a C-plot line (a la "Andor") showing that Mon and Leia's hands are being tied by political machinations that they somehow can't control. Otherwise, we have to conclude that they're just stupid and weak.

@@kirkdarling4120 But we did have that in the show. It was the scene where Mon Mothma was trying to get the Senate to act but they just didn't care. And she's supposed to be shown to be weak in that scene, as it's the whole point of the persona she’s portraying: to throw off suspicions of her clandestine activities. She says so herself. Just shows that most Star Wars fans can't pay attention to anything other than lightsabers, explosions, and blasters.

@@Lobsterwithinternet Yes, that was in "Andor." My point is that they need such a C-plot line in "Ahsoka."

Because they're ignoring the EU I favor of their own creation?

yep, in the end she accomplished the mission with the Ghost (her personal ubertricked ship that frankly make any imperial pilot not called Darth Vader in dire need of their brown pants) and 4 X-wing...i understand that resource are thin but 4 men and 4 starfighter to follow a lead to a warcriminal that escaped with the help of force wielder mercenaries, expecially after the event on Mandalore and the scandal in Corellia it's not that much. Sure the argument in defense of Xiono and the Republic behaviour are sound and vey belieavable but frankly the 'good' senator vibe is someone that want starve a possible rival of both resources and potential news appeareance. Because while Hera is a military revolutionary leader, she is also a very famous one with close connection with many republic leaders and she is the daughter of Star Wars version of Che Guevara (only much more succesfull), the day she decide to become a politician she can pick her senate seat and many like Xiono fear that

With what? At that point, the "New Republic defence fleet" was very accurately named. It was a large single fleet stationed in the Hosnian system that would reinforce local defence forces of member worlds. On top of that, the First Order had a substantial fleet, which would have responded to Starkiller Base's distress call. The New Republic Fleet would have been ground to dust in orbit of Starkiller base.

@@mathewwilkins1613 I mean if they destroyed D’qar instead. Ending the resistance

Like if Hera led the strike instead of Poe

Different concepts of space travel.

The mutiny of the German Imperial Navy in 1918 was due to many factor, from revolutionary unrest fueled by famine to the mentioned suicide mission but more because by then it was clear that the war was lost and the entire mission and their death was just an hollow move in the name of some abstract concept of noble honor not a mission with a genuine possibility to really affect the outcome of the war