How Nintendo Failed To Make The Game They Never Wanted To Make. 

Did you just call Malo, owner of Malo Mart "unimportant"?

Wind waker literally opens with child kidnapping??? It’s like the catalyst for the entire plot of wind waker why did the encyclopedia say that Twilight princess did it first?😭

Twilight princess isn’t, nor ever was realistic. The games art style was always intended to be gothic. This explains its color palette, it’s odd human proportions, the only reason people even think it was supposed to be realistic is how much less cartoony than wind waker, but people keep calling tp realistic, when it never was nor was trying to be

53:46 "adding darker elements that had not been present in the series until [Twilight Princess], like children being kidnapped." Didn't Wind Waker also start with a child kidnapping? As the inciting incident of the game?

"We accept this the same that way we accepted our character to be able to survive being hit by an attack that, you know, in the real world would kill a rhinoceros wearing chain mail in an instant."

I think there's two main reasons why they had Midna destroy the Mirror of Twilight: 1. Midna saw how the mirror fragments corrupted anyone and anything that came into contact with them, and didn't want that sort of dangerous power to be left unchecked. 2. It's a payoff for Midna stating that only the true ruler of the Twilight Realm could shatter the mirror. It would take significant story alterations to remove these motivations. Plus, we're not sure that the mirror is the only possible way to access the Twilight Realm.

Forgive me, but I feel like this video makes a lot of terrible arguments and really misconstrues many of TP’s plot points. Here are my thoughts on some of your points: (1/2) -Right out of the gate, I feel like you’re placing way too much value on "themes" that the game wasn't even trying to focus on. Rusl’s quote at the beginning of the game is really just setting the tone and explains a lingering melancholy which pervades the world at times…which accurately foreshadows the Twilight Realm/curtains of Twilight which come later. I don’t think it was ever meant to be anything more than that. -You make a weird argument that side characters need to have important plot relevance instead of just being allowed to be...you know, side characters? Like, did the Ordon kids really need to be any more important than what they were? They had their roles to play in the game, and while it wasn’t anything major, they fulfilled those roles well. I really don’t think we needed anything more from them. -It feels really weird to call the beginning of the game "a lot of fluff" when in actuality it serves as a useful tutorial and basically establishes Link's character and background. Sure it might have been a little slow, but at the very least, it wasn’t pointless. -I feel like it should be pretty obvious why Link doesn’t change back from a wolf in the light world. The effects of the Twilight are simply that potent and not easily undone. It’s hinted by Ordona when he says that “Those transformed by twilight usually cannot recover their original forms” and even Midna when she says “you haven't transformed back to your former self...and you won't anytime soon!” She then follows up that statement with “Now why could that be? Eee hee hee!”, but her giggle and previous statement seem to suggest that she already fully understands what’s going on. She’s likely just teasing Link for his cluelessness in that moment. And like I said, the truth of the matter is really not that difficult to surmise, if you’re willing to piece together what the plot is showing you. -I have a few small notes about the twilight Kakariko scene: Colin isn’t telling the story of the disappearing townspeople, Barnes is. And the mention that the people are turning into monsters is more of a hint/speculation rather than an actual plot point that needs to be fully addressed or resolved. I feel like it was only mentioned to give you an idea of what the beasts are up to, and to make them sound more eerie and terrifying. -I’ll admit that the Bulblins’ kidnapping of the children seems all over the place. We’re never quite sure why they were kidnapped or abandoned, but we could speculate that this was done in an effort to cripple the civilizations across Hyrule and make Zant’s invasion an easier process. It honestly should have been explained though and it is rather disappointing that it wasn’t focused on more. -I think it’s safe to say that Link had more motivation than just wanting to save the kids. He is a hero and a kind soul. He obviously wants to save his Kingdom too. Stop Zant. Save Zelda from her captors. Save the remaining Light Spirits. His bond with Midna is slowly growing and he clearly wants to help her too. I think it should be pretty obvious why he would continue helping Midna collect the Fused Shadows if she claimed that was their best chance of saving the kingdom. He has every reason to continue journeying even after saving the kids. -It’s true that the game doesn’t go into detail as to why being a spirit in the Twilight is inherently bad, but I’m guessing that they can’t cross the curtains of Twilight (similar to how Link needs Midna’s help to get through), basically making them prisoners at Zant’s mercy. And a lot of the citizens do live in fear of Zant and his Shadow Beasts, so it’s never shown to be all smiles and rainbows. The Twilight is still very much something that needs to be undone. -You claim that Link is a flawless hero, but I kind of disagree. Link is really only as perfect as you, the player, is. Every game over, every injury, every fall into a pit…are these not all examples of Link being imperfect? Examples of him failing? And I think you’ve really misunderstood his relevance to Colin’s arc. Link’s nod to Colin isn’t really one of confidence. It’s one of willingness. Link doesn’t know for sure that he’ll be able to aid the Gorons, but he’s damn well going to try. That’s who he is. That’s his display of courage and selflessness. And yet you’ve spun it as Link acknowledging his perfection and flawlessness? I have no idea how the hell you’ve arrived at this conclusion. -You claim that Link NEEDS a character arc, but…why? Link is already shown to be a grown adult at the beginning of the game. We can presume that he’s already lived through a decent amount of life lessons and they’ve forged him into the person he is today. A kind, selfless, brave individual who always aids others. He is a very admirable person, and I don’t really see what’s inherently wrong with that. I wish you would explain why Link’s “flawless character” (heavy emphasis on the quotation marks here) is displeasing other than just saying “he needs a character arc”. Like, what exactly did you want to see from him? -You’ve completely misconstrued the entire Sacred Realm/interloper cutscene…This scene was never meant to be foreshadowing, it’s more lore/backstory for not only TP, but the Zelda series as a whole. It explains the origins of the Twilight Realm, the purpose of the Light Spirits, what the Fused Shadows truly are and why they are dangerous. The reason why the visuals show Link and Ilia is to make the story more understandable/relatable. It shows that anyone could be corrupted in the pursuit of such godly power. Friend could become foe. Righteous could turn evil. It apparently happened to people as good-natured to Link, and if the hero isn’t careful with the Fused Shadows, it could very well happen to him too. So yeah…there IS a reason for it to exist and it is not inherently terrible storytelling… -I don’t really know what to say about the tonal shifts. You say that the game is too dark in places and then too lighthearted/silly in others but…that’s kind of just the Zelda series as a whole? Many dark events take place throughout the games, but there’s always plenty of funny/silly moments too, as well as goofy characters and fun minigames. It’s just how the Legend of Zelda is and such tones have never been exclusive to TP. It’s fine if you don’t like it, but if you’re going to make an argument for why it’s objectively bad or confusing, then you need to actually…provide reasoning? How did the tonal shifts specifically RUIN the experience for you? -I have no idea why you think the game has such an increase in quality/enjoyment from the Lakebed Temple onwards when the game doesn’t seem to rectify any of the complaints you’ve posed up until that point. Like, by your own arguments, is Link not still flawless? The tones not still shifting? The story still not making sense? What changed that makes the game suddenly become “peak Zelda” for you? Because as far as I can tell, it seems like you just decided that all of your previous complaints were suddenly irrelevant, and it kind of makes me feel like I should treat them as irrelevant as well…

Honestly as a kid, I played this game after my grandmother passed away and I 100% understood it as the way you say it should have been and it helped me through that.

There is another theme that makes Midna's decision more clear, not right, but clearer, Fear. Not horror, there are horror elements, but Fear, fear that things won't work out, fear that there is no future for the two worlds mixing, fear that tensions will cause issues one day no matter how hard they try, fear of change. That'd it'd be better to not try at all. Midna's heart softened, but she's still afraid of what could happen if their cultures mix and takes the onus on herself to prevent the bad despite the wonderful and possible good.

The game is called "Twilight Princess" it's about Midna, link isn't the focus, he can be as perfect as the game needs him to be to help Midna change her mind about the people of the light world.

I think this is the first time that I knew exactly what the blurred video at 2:12 was

Bold of you, calling Malo unimportant.

Hot take: The goat herding is the most underrated part of ANY Zelda game. It is the only game that lets you partake is Links day-job, no other Zelda game has Link do a regular villager thing, WW is the closest with Link taking a nap, but that ends a second in. This is sets the feeling of the calm, making the dread of the approaching calamity feel so much darker, and the call to adventure much stronger. Also, the fact that its slow does not affect 99% of all players, the slow start is only slow on replays.

I would disagree that twilight princess's art design is "realistic". It's maybe more.. ""naturalistic""?? but DEFINITELY not realistic. Every character apart from a few are highly stylized and exaggerated, and I would argue lots and lots of the art direction is actually in favor for the series as I'd argue that the popularity of the dungeons comes not only from their design mechanically but their design artistically, too. They feel like natural evolutions to the oot and mm art style, which was DEFINITELY not realistic either.

In the opening you mentions bad cutscenes and I'm thinking, "didn't this game have the best cutscenes". Then you get to the triforce/illia scene and I'm like, "yeah, that's probably the best cutscenes in all of Zelda"

Twilight Princess gave us Midna and is therefore a perfect game with no flaws whatsoever

Why does no one talk about how TP is the only Zelda game where Zelda’s hair color is different I think more games should explore Zeldas with other hair colors

This is the first STRONG disagreement I have with Ceave. Link literally loses his identity after the cutscene. He’s turned back into the wolf and can’t change back. The concepts of betrayal are also immediately explored. And Linl CERTAINLY feels lonely when Midna is in shrimp form and can’t help. Like… it’s all right there.

I think your hangup on how the theme of cultures fits into the game's ending may add a bit of unnecessary friction to your interpretation Midna's whole thing at the start of the game is that she was extremely bitter about her people being banished to the realm of twilight and I always got the impression that she was basically planning to use Zant's antics as an opportunity to finally get revenge on the realm of light (this might even be explicit in the dialogue, but I haven't played the game in a while, so I don't quite remember). But, due to her adventures with Link, Zelda's sacrifice, and seeing how Zant and Ganondorf are consumed by hatred, she learns to let go of her own bitterness and do what's best for everyone, not only her own people. The fact that Midna then destroys the Mirror of Twilight with a _tear_ in the end shows how much sorrow she feels in that moment, that as much as she _wants_ to preserve the gateway between realms, to learn more about each others' cultures and intermingle, she feels she _has_ no other choice but to destroy the mirror in order to prevent another catastrophe. It wasn't an act of anger or grasping for power, but an act of responsibility, one that someone like Zant or Ganondorf could never understand I do agree that the game's themes and writing are messy, but I think changing the realms to be representations of life and death would've been more akin to a rehash of Majora's Mask and its themes regarding death, grief, acceptance, etc. There's definitely a lot to consider from that angle as you pointed out, but as it stands, Twilight Princess feels more like an allegory for dealing with one's own prejudices, the notion that you may harbor intensely negative feelings towards others, sometimes justifiably so, but it's important to reflect on what good would actually come from feeding that animosity and acting on it

The reason Link stayed a wolf when he went to Orden was because the evil of the twilight wasn't banished away

In the Japanese version, the Twilight Realm is known as the Shadow Realm, Twilight is only used in Midna's title, and the sections of Hyrule overtaking by shadow (where Light and Shadow collide. a.k.a. Twilight). In general, TP's localization makes a lot of odd changes that mess with the themes of power. Also, the Lanayru cutscene is where we first learn about origins of the Twili, being the descendants of the banished Interlopers. EDIT: one thing worth pointing out in the sales analysis, is that a) A large chunk of the Wii's install base consisted of casual gamers, who weren't gonna buy a Zelda game anyways, and b) the Wii had a much bigger piracy problem, meaning a lot more people played the game than what sales would indicate.

Ceave, I will always love your perspectives, but in the case of your final analysis of Twilight Princess’ themes, I think you have missed the mark. I totally agree that sacrifice and accepting other cultures are major themes in the game, but whereas you state they are in conflict when Midna shatters the mirror, I believe the truth is that one is informing the other. The emotional intention of this final scene is clear as day: sadness and regret. Midna could have broken the mirror in any number of ways, but she breaks it with a tear, perhaps the most unambiguous symbol of sadness the writers could choose. She regrets that she has to close this connection between worlds, between cultures, because like the player she has learnt that the gap between cultures is not as wide as she first thought. Yet, to protect her people as much as to protect Link and Zelda, she must sever all connections. This is her ultimate sacrifice: denying the possibility of connections between cultures in the hope of protecting them from suffering, the sadness of the sacrifice intensified by the regret at having to deny her people the joy of the lesson she has learned. The two themes are, in my onion, perfectly interwoven in this final moment and it does pain me a little bit that you seem to have missed or intentionally overlooked this as a way of underscoring your argument

I disagree with the Lanayru Spirit cutscene being incoherent at the time it appears, it just doesn't really have any payoff. It's about power or the promise of power causing people to betray or hurt even those they care about. Now, we obviously have the connection of Midna being potentially untrustworthy, but we also have Link framed as an overwhelmingly strong hero not long before this. Add in how the civilians cower from him in wolf-form and the thematic direction of the cutscene makes more sense. Unfortunately there isn't really any payoff - sure there are betrayals, bad decisions and people becoming monsters when faced with great power (Zant's coup, the Sages executing Ganondorf and at least half the cast of villains respectively), but it's all backstory stuff. I suppose we also have Hero's Shade Stalfos Link in the 'power turning people into monsters' category, but he seems friendly enough, likewise for Spider-Midna (Spidna if you will). Maybe you could argue Puppet-Zelda as a fakeout final boss works, but she's obviously being controlled so that doesn't fit the theme. Maybe we really stretch it and say that Zant betraying Ganondorf at the end delivers a subversive take on the betrayal theme, but that's a real stretch. I can imagine a different 2nd half of the game that fit the themes the first half sets up. Midna and Link have different needs for the Fused Shadow and come into conflict (perhaps she's the midgame boss and their conflict allows Zant to curse Link and shove Midna in the tanning booth, leading them to once again work together); Link's entry into Hyrule Castle is framed to mirror Zant's; the fight with Zelda isn't a fakeout - she's there to return Link to who he should be instead of the conquering monster he's become; etc. A less-heroic story about the corrupting influence of power that culminates in a fight against the very embodiment of power and closes out with the Fused Shadow being split between the realms so the destruction of the Mirror of Twilight becomes more meaningful. I also really like the art style with the sole exception of terrain textures and the murky filter that's over so much of it. It's got that grimy, realism-adjacent style where 90% of the characters are quirky weirdos and/or nasty goblins. Reminds me of Labyrinth or the 1999 Alice in Wonderland tv-movie. I also think your use of statistics at the end is reductive at best and misleading at worst. The Wii vastly expanded the audience base and the best-selling games (not counting those bundled with the console) reflect that, being the "motion control novelty" set of Wii Play, Fit and Fit Plus. If we ignore those, Twilight Princess basically matches Wind Waker - they both sold about half as many copies as their console's Smash Bros (the highest-selling non-bundle, non-motion-novelty game on each console), were beaten by the mainline 3D Super Mario game as well as a party game (Mario Kart Double Dash and Mario Party 8 respectively). You could argue that Twilight Princess had the advantage of there not being as much competition when it released, but if we factor that in, it also had the disadvantage of requiring the purchase of a new console for the full experience (and then we have to consider whether "more of the same" would sell a console as well as "Zelda with a new art style"). Any sort of comparative analysis is going to be incredibly complicated. Overall though, I like the analysis. Mixed metaphors stepping on each others' toes was my main criticism of the anime Promare and it can be really hard to write yourself out of, especially when those metaphors are also fighting with the non-metaphorical text of the story.

Personally, I disagree that the creepy cutscene has no meaning to the rest of the story. I think it's meant to give story to what the fused shadows really represent, and place doubt in the player towards Midna's motives. I think it's also the light spirit trying to frighten or test Link with the possible darkness he could fall into if he gives in to a lust for power. It's also a nod to Zant's ability to end Ganon. The part of himself he gave to Zant because he saw him as a way to get more power, is the same thing that caused his final downfall. The white eyes also come back on Ganon in the scene where Zant cracks his neck.

The creepy cutscene is just using existing models to explain the history of this hyrule & why the Twili people exist in a shocking (and cost effective) way

I have to say, I think a lot of the issues brought up here are a result of selective framing and overthinking. Obviously, I disagree with most of the points made in this video, but I want to explain why using a few examples. 1. Link's character arc. Link has never had a defined character arc in a zelda game. Him being a mute protagonist means that he gets very little characterization and almost always is a perfect hero right off the bat. You could say that in many other games he is described as being lazy (OOT, aLttP, MC, etc) but aside from saying it in the very beginning, this never really comes up. I'd like to know what people think Link's character arc is in other games so as to explain why he has a bad arc in Twilight princess. I think Link fails to have an arc in any game, so it's a valid criticism, but I don't think it's fair to single out in this game. 2. Colin's projection onto Link. Two things here: One, Other peoples opinions and perceptions of a character are not supposed to indicate how that character IS, just how they are percieved. Many villains in media often start as being seen as good, only to later be revealed to be evil. Other characters perceptions of a character are NOT meant to tell the audience how that character is, just how they are percieved. Two, Link, being Mute, has essentially three things he can "say" yes, no and shrug. So when Colin says he can save the gorons, what else could Link say other than nod in agreement without assassinating his whole character. 3. Story misreadings. I'll agree that Twilight Princess leaves a lot of things ambiguous, but I think it's fair to say the same of all zelda games. For example, why doesn't Link revert to his human form in the world of light? They only times he returns to human form is when in the presence of light magic (spirits and master sword). This is never explained, but could have a myriad of explanations that are all fine. Compare this to aLttP where Link is turned into a Bunny in the Shadow realm, why he takes that form is never explained or hinted at, and we can only speculate why he would turn into that when nothing else in the dark world look like that. How about MM, why does link retain key items when resetting the world when consumables are all lost? OOT, if ganandorf wanted Link to open the light realm, why did he block his path at every step? WW, how did the triforce break, why was it only the triforce of courage that broke, how did link get physical pieces of the triforce and combine them together, who made charts to the pieces, etc? Or, why is king Daphnes a boat and why can he apparently live forever? All valid questions and valid critiques, but again Twilight Princess is singled out as this being a problem, when as far as I can tell it has the easiest solution that just isn't spelled out. 4. Zelda's Gift. The game never states what Zelda gives to Midna to save her life, but the implication is that Midna is dying solely due to being in the world of light as a being of twilight, so Zelda gave her the ability to exist in the world of light, and just like all the town's people engulfed in twilight, she ceased to exist in the world of light. So, she didn't die, she faded into the twilight realm. This also explains how she came back, as Ganondorf has immense magic and could easily use it to bring Zelda back to the normal world. This is speculation since the game doesn't explain it, but as with point 3, this is nothing new 5. Breaking the Mirror. Midna's character arc has two main portions: a. learning to respect the world of light as not evil, and b. learning that she is a competent ruler. Midna is angry and spiteful at Zelda because she see's herself in Zelda. Midna feels as though she has failed her people and isn't fit to rule and projects these feelings onto Zelda because she appears to have failed in the same way. Midna also knows the history of the twilight and knows that she and her people were banished from the normal realm due to using magic. She and her people still have and use magic and she loves her people, so she has to assume that the world of light banished them into twilight unjustly. So, over the course of the game she learns that there are good and bad people in both realms and she learns that having failed does not make you into a failure, your actions after failure determine that. However, she also learns that the Twili and Hylians get hurt when they interact with eachother, so she gives up her new found love and connections in the normal world to protect them and her own people. I'll admit that a lot of this is my own interpretation of the story, and I think most Zelda games have ambiguous enough stories that each person inevitable reads something different from them, but that's also kind of my point. Most of the issues brought up in this video were things I never noticed because they didn't appear to be problems to me. The game has enough to it that I felt like I could read solutions into the unknown, and I also felt like all zelda games had the same kind of ambiguous stories. Edit: Fixed a name as I used the wrong king of hyrule

I don't think I've ever disagreed this much with the opening of a Ceave video - in my opinion having played through the Wii U version again recently: the story is pretty straightforward, Link is about as developed as he is in other non-Skyward Sword games, and the ending is one of my favourites in the series due to the surprising bittersweetness. Side characters having a buncha character development is really neat, and the art direction is quite pretty. I tried watching through the video but I just could not jive with almost any critique being said, which is honestly super surprising considering your other Zelda videos have been right on the money with me.

1:11:48 How can you nonchalantly say “a game or a story isn’t bad just because it explores many themes… but if the themes start to contradict eachother, then we have a problem”? Such a strong and seemingly arbitrary limiting factor on a medium. Can some things not leave you feeling confused? Either way why did you just set that rule

The fishing rod controls weirdly bonded me with my uncle who absolutely detested video-games. I was playing on the Wii and had no idea how to get the fishing to work - it's not intuitive as you mention in the video, not least to a 9-year old. The motion controls - that resembled a real fishing rod - WERE intuitive to my fisherman uncle however, who suddenly interjected and told me that I needed to wait for the end of the rod to fully submerge and then *slowly* reel the fish in rather than just yank the Wiimote, as he would if he were fishing. It was a weird and rare moment where we suddenly had some common ground, and I remember it fondly.

your "don't worry, that's not the final boss fight in the background" bit is always comedy gold in these videos

34:44 Its not literally showing *Link* and *Ilia.* They are stand-ins for the story, illustrating what happened with the Interlopers. The Interlopers are the Twili's ancestors and this story is explaining this group that had been banished to the Twilight Realm. Its describing people turning on each other in order to get their hands on the Triforce, represented by Link and Ilia turning on each other, and the blind greed they had to obtain it, illustrated by the blank eyes and Link in a trance running toward the Triforce. The Light Spirit is warning Link that that greed for power can happen to him too if he isn't careful, as Link is searching for the pieces of the Fused Shadows without even knowing anything about them, what they really are, or the power they contain. Even Midna didn't fully know the power they contained judging from how she reacted when she killed Zant. It terrified her that it only took a fraction of its power to do so, almost signifying that *killing* him wasn't even her intention. That it just happened out of a rage that it influenced within her because she snaps out of it immediately after it happens. 32:53 wtf, you're viewing the cutscene so literally. I've never seen anyone not understand this cutscene before, least of all this badly. Even at the age of 13 this was easy to understand. They spell it out for you using simple explanations and cinematography. I know the English localizations of Zelda games aren't that great when it comes to the important story and lore and they like to alter important details, but come on, this is cut and dry.

I actually strongly disagree, the story in my opinion is the best in the series right alongside Majora’s Mask. I’m actually quite surprised that you find the story weak.

You're entitled to your opinions, but most of them are just... poorly thought out. So you spent forever rambling about liminal spaces, then you decided that the twilight in the the game is supposed to be a liminal space. Then you somehow confused yourself because the game didn't go with your head canon that you just made up. Creatures of twilight actively conquering the world of light with a twister army. That's not a difficult or confusing plot line to understand. It's simplistic. Second, Link doesn't really have a character arc. You can consider that a bad thing if you want, but it's not uncommon for a hero to be perfect in literature and myths. Link has the exact same "character arc" in pretty much every zelda game. Most of the time he doesn't even fit the hero's journey. He's just a fearless young boy doing his own thing. Something evil happens and he dives head-long into facing it because evil = bad and single handedly defeats every challenge he's faced with. The only growth that takes place is in physical power. He has no character flaws. the only mistake he ever really makes is in Oot because he gets played. Link's journey is closer to Beowulf than anything more fleshed out. and it's that way in pretty much every game. I *know* that you know that Zelda is a prisoner because she surrendered. This is why she's imprisoned and can't help her people. This is why the people of hyrule are *only* spirits instead of dead/dead. and Midna mocks her and calls her a weak leader, yes. However, A: This is Midna projecting because she feels guilty for having been powerless to save her own people. B: We are immediately shown what would have happened if she'd refused through the Zora. The Queen of the Zora refused to surrender and as a result she was executed, her son was left sickly and on the verge of death with nobody to help him. and after she was dead, they froze all the Zora and left them for dead and a warning to any others who might oppose Zant. Yes, it's brutal and dark. That's the point. Zelda made the best pick out of the only two bad choices she had. Going to ignore your complaint about about tonal whiplash, because again, this is something every modern zelda game does. Doesn't matter hiw serious stuff gets, you're pretty much always 5 minutes away from some wacky mini game or colorful character. The art direction is just a matter of opinion. The cutscene at lake hylia is doing a could things. To start out with, it's clearly a subversion of OoT's cutscenes. It starts out framing it exactly like the creation myths in that game do. Then, suddenly, people are stabbing eachother, which is purely for shock value. Which is also the reason that they use Link and are used here. This isn't supposed to be some weird foreshadowing, it's back story. They're showing that, like in the LttP and OoT, the fight for the Triforce has caused many seemingly ordinary people to turn on eachother our of pure greed for it's power. It's trying to show the horror of having your childhood friend try to kill you because they only see you as an obstacles. Link and Ilia are used to show that they aren't really any different from the people who fell into this conflict. Then suddenly Link is one of the people weilding dark powers. This is to show that, again, even though they seem evil, these are STILL just ordinary people killing eachother and lusting for power when the gods see what's going on and decide "okay, now nobody gets it and you all need to be separated." I could go on, but so many of these points don't even feel like they were made in good faith.

as a child, I struggled to pay attention to the story of a game I was playing. I liked aesthetics, and I liked gameplay. The cinematic navigation you mention was a big part of what made Twilight Princess so memorable in the end, because child me wouldn't have cared a bit about whether the darker parts of the world were called "twilight" or "shadow" or anything else. As I grew up, I became more picky. The bug-catching became an annoyance, because the colours are so bleak on the technically weak system of the console, relatively speaking. To date that's still what I remember the most; not having replayed the game in ages, always telling me that I dind't particularly like "such a big part of the game", I found myself convinced that it was actually important, when it really was just the first half. I completely forgot about the character arcs and character-dependent story beats. The more I think about the game, the more fond memories return. The dungeons, the characters, the emotions I've felt. Particularly the emotion of hate at the game for interrupting Midna's Lament with the generic battle music whenever I ran into an enemy on Hyrule Field between the game's halves. But really, I look back in fondness; but only when I do so consciously, because most of my subconscious associations are still the aesthetics and early gameplay, and I think that's really interesting.

"Worst art direction in the series" Link's Awakening Remake is right there, c'mon

That infamous cutscene of the interlopers/dark link and falling Illia's are very much related to the story. It's very clear that obviously these are not supposed to be literal events that could have happened in the story. It's all symbolic and from the viewpoint of a light spirit. Naturally, the light spirit would have a very strong distaste for anything related to the Twili as it was commanded by its god to banish them for evil acts. The interlopers were a mixed tribe/clan of people from all over that were proficient in magic that was deemed too much for the mainland Hyrule. Midna later shares her perspective on that banishment and how they were essentially condemned for all future generations due to experimenting with magic countless years prior. The cutscene is purely symbolic of how absolute power corrupts all who wield it. The theme of puppets and the uncanny figures acting unnaturally is directly tied to how the Fused Shadows and Mirror of Twilight shards immediately corrupt all those who come into contact with them. Even Ganondorf himself makes Zelda his puppet as the first phase of the final fight. Also, Midna has that power because she is a direct descendant of the original banished interlopers and that power was passed down until it reached her. She never had to properly use it until that moment since so much was at stake. The ending is amazing too, that's a part of the video I can't understand of it being terrible. You can hate it, but saying it's terrible is quite the stretch when the story so clearly laid out as soon as you saw the broken mirror that only a true ruler of the Twilight could break the mirror. It was foreshadowed quite early on.

Time to listen to a guy criticize my favorite game for an hour and a half. 😂

1:13:55 Respecting different cultures but not mixing with them is also a moral which makes sense. It would also be very fitting for Japan.

I love the Lanayru spirit custene! It gives us some lore, but it's also the spirit giving Link a warning about the corruption effects of power by recounting that lore using link himself and the girl he likes as place holder for people involved. even if it were just random nonsense, it's still damn evocative imagery

Interesting that this game also had a direct sequel planned and it was struck down.

If the twilight realm was where dead people went, the explanation for Ganon getting there would have been much simpler; the execution would have just been successful.

I feel that the scene where the Light Spirit warns Link about being consumed by power, the imagery isn’t so much referring to Link becoming a puppet, but Zant. Also, tonally, just because the game isn’t consistent for its full runtime does not matter. I’m a series where Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask exist, I don’t think it’s really all that jarring. It’s just the tone of the series itself.

Dude… the cutscene isnt ment for rorshadowing its a metafore and its ment to make you feel very confused and uncomfortable

I think that Link was always supposed to be a hero [BOTW style], not grow into a hero, but instead it is a journey of Link understanding just what he is defending, and understanding that being a hero means helping those who need it regardless and living for what is right regardless of where you came from. This is a lesson for Midna as well. It is not about accepting that other cultures are [also] good. It's about accepting that all cultures do evil [even ours]. And with that shattering the mirror makes perfect sense.

NEW CEAVE LET'S GO

Twilight princess is my favourite zelda game, despite its flaws. I agree that it's a very flawed game, but also some of the points you bring up are just... a bit weird ? game taking too long to start - Yeah, there's a long time until you get to the first dungeon. However that's only an issue if you compare it to other zelda games. You still do things before reaching that dungeon ! Going to save the kids for the first time, the hyrule castle thing, the stealth... It's not as if you're sitting through hours and hours of cutscenes and fetch-quests. You're spending that time going around, exploring small areas, yes, but still exploring, and so on. the cutscene - goddamit. Yes that cutscene is ridiculous but also goddamit. Ilia and Link represent regular people here. They're not meant to be Ilia and Link. Them stabbing each other and fighting each other is to show that the allure of the triforce's power could turn even childhood friends against each other. Link suddenly killing himself and switching role like that symbolizes the destruction of the self that follows seeking that power. This cutscene is the moment where the origin of the fused shadows is revealed. And also... major theme of power corrupting - This cutscene is where we get the first idea of power that corrupts. You say this isn't brought up anymore but it is ! You say there are no puppets after this in the game but there are !! There is literally a phase of the final boss that's a puppet ! Zant himself is a puppet to Ganondorf ! He was seeking raw power, and oh boy did he get it, but he also got irremediably damaged by it ! Midna also has stuff about that with the fused shadows ! The way she kills zant is by using a fraction of the fused shadows, and she's terrified by it because she has lost all control on her own power ! And I'm pretty sure this comes up in the Hyrule Castle part of the game as well, that she can't control the fused shadows. Even if it's not brought up in dialog, it's quite clear from the way she breaks the seal on Hyrule Castle that she has absolutely no agency on her actions once the fused shadows take over. twilight realm - Also, I feel that the severing of the connection between light and shadow makes sense already, in a way. It's said that the inhabitants of the twilight realm are prisoners who were banished there, and eventually formed their own kingdom. This is also why Zant is angry about the twili royals not rioting : he's mad at them for being fine with being rejects, slaves, prisoners. I think it's fair, when you consider that history, that Midna wants to sever that connection. To me it reads more as a "this was fun but please leave us alone. you did send us to the evil shadow realm then demonize us. maybe you're not evil but please leave us alone" which is. entirely fair ! I do agree with a lot of things, but these issues just kept nagging and I had to take a few breaks while watching this video to not fly off the handle

As a long time Zelda fan, I couldnt even finish this game's tutorial. When they made me heard sheep and fish and go after kittens... I just quit. And guess what! Nothing bad happened to the world! And I lived happily ever after.

No matter whats happening in my life your voice makes me happy. I'm doing good rn but you got me through some hard times... thank you.

I actually love the beginning, as well as the art style, which i think looks really cool

29:50 static protagonist vs dynamic protagonist A static protagonist is a protagonist that doesn’t change but changes the world around them

Really doing the joseph anderson "This game is so good and so bad at the same time" and im all here for it

Rusl doesn't know of the twilight realm, all he knows is he heard ("They say [...]") twilight has to do with spirits. Twilight isn't the twilight he thinks it is, and spirits aren't those of dead people as he thinks they are. Bruh I disagree with so much more, this game is absolute perfection to me. If you are interested in the perspective of someone who loves it too (and has similar opinions to me), I recommend watching Internet Pitstop's video on the game.

The idea of "accepting death" being the original theme of the game makes so much sense! Even with things you critiqued in the finished game, like Colin's character development and Ganondorf's execution. The lesson that Colin originally learned was that in order to be strong one has to be willing to accept death, which he did when he sacrificed himself to save Beth. He admires Link because Link already carries that quality within himself after having been transformed into a wolf and spending time in twilight. Ganondorfs execution failed, that means the sages failed at sending him to the shadow realm, and instead sent him into the twilight, the realm between light and shadow. Meaning Ganondorf was not quite alive anymore but neither was he quite dead. In the final game he appears to Zant in as a weird floating fiery head thing which could be an indicator that he was stuck somewhere between two worlds so to speak. The main question I am left with is what implications this change would have had for the inhabitants of Castle Town. If being stuck in twilight means that one is stuck inversen the realms of the living and the dead, what kind of consequences would that bring? Because I definitely agree that in the final game the effects of the twilight seem to be basically zero. If anyone has any ideas on what would make thematic sense, I would love to hear them!

maybe the accepting culture wasnt a theme

Bro did not cool with this one

I really don't mind Link having no arc of his own. I think, him being unwaveringly courageous begins the moment the godesses' blessing via the triforce saves him from the effects of the twilight. Once we transform back, we are the hero, wearing the hero's tunic and all. It is communicated early enough in the game to not expect much growth, if any at all. To that I want to add, that many character's in fiction are like this - not really having an arc, I mean. They instead create arcs in other characters. These heroes may not be flawless, but one or two traits of them cause others to look up to them, and change because of them. One notorious character for this trope is Goku. Of course comicbook heroes are often like this too - unwavering in their ways, inspiring others to pick up hero work too. We are the hero, we do hero stuff. Others admire us for it, and some even change thanks to our deeds. Nothing is being robbed from us - we know what we want to do, and we know who we are. Regarding multiple things that seem weird in the story telling, I'd argue that they are very well done, because they are ambiguous. The start sequence of the game is mere superstition - we find out what twilight really is, and there is enough overlap between the superstition and "reality" to understand where the idea comes from. The people are absolutely not fine, just because they seemingly can go on about their day - they live in perpetual fear, an unchanging state of life, within the liminal space of twilight. A rather frightening prospect to endure. The twilight is the change from light to darkness - it brings introduces the first fall of darkness of the day (as presented by the hulking twilight monsters) and it saps the light away (via the bugs). The interloper scene has MUCH to be interpreted, but the community consensus seems to be that it is about greed that even Link is not immune to - the light spirit showed Link directly the danger of such powers by giving him a taste of it. Whether the endless number of falling Ilyas is about lust, revenge, or something entirely different is left up for our personal interpretation, as Link is a blank slate for us. The game does a lot less to spell things out, and I think that this is unconventional, but not bad story-telling. Instead it makes us experience the world first hand and lets us shape our own worldviews, which may or may not be correct - either is fine and has no bearing on the more tangible things about Hyrule, just like in reality. Lastly, I think you took the narrative point regarding different cultures too far. It was exploring polar opposites (evil vs good manifesting in dark vs light), not simply cultures , but it did so with people as vessels for both forces. As Zelda said, both light and dark are opposite sides of the same coin - they cannot be separated. Destroying the mirror only destroys the spillover, which is a very important point if you look at it not through the lense of culture, but through the lense of contradiction. The light realm is presented as the good realm. The other as the evil realm. This is emphasized by the sages, stating that they transported only evil beings away,. Evil pervades the realm of the Twili, and with "evil" being an actual driving force of their reality, it can and must be physically sealed away, if Goodness (in the form of the light realm) is to be preserved. The Twili can deal with such evil - they may not be evil, yet they are born from it. But the light realm can't. Their interaction leads to twilight, a fearsome liminal space, spreading chaos. Who was harmed by the twilight? Was it both sides? No. Only the light realm suffered of it - the Twili suffered under Zant, but he and the twilight are not the same thing. You come to this very conclusion when you assume that the story might have been about the world of the dead at some point - life and death being such polar opposites. It's all still there. Though I would love your version to be more explicitly stated, the entire game leaves a lot to be interpreted, and I do not see a contradiction between your speculation about the dead, and the game having malformed Twili by Zant be harmless once calmed via the soothing light of light orbs.

How in the world is holding down on the c-stick, complicated fishing controls?

There's a lot of things I agree with in this video but I kinda feel that you were unecessarily harsh on the "Flipped Ilias" cutscene, which for me was obviously metaphoric. So I don't find the latter absence of flipped Ilias as being a big deal, it being a sort of "fall of men" type of imagery, things being flipped upside down, innocence corrupted, turning against one another etc. (Also, possibly a NGE reference?) It was a flashback to what had happened with all characters replaced as Ilia and Link, two counterparts, men and women, friends and lovers and what have you, turning against each other. As far as it being random creepy imagery, kinda, but only because we don't really learn much of anything relating to this later on, which makes this cutscene a bit disconnected and in that sense, random. They obviously went for creepy, that's a given, but I don't think it's that jarring considering the game in general goes for mature, creepy and jarring in many places. Also, in this section you mention we don't see anyone being puppeted afterwards, but we do. Zelda, in the very end of the game. This all said, you're right about the tone being all over the place, Link's character arc and most other things. I love and will always love TP for many things, but it is a bit of a mess. It's funny, really, I love the atmosphere and the mood of the game, but the tonal dissonance and the messy story always stick out when I revisit the game. It's like I'm somewhere and thinking to myself that man, I really like this liminal space-feeling of this, this eerie, strange music and the dream-like feeling of it all and then another story beat comes around and I'm just ripped out of my comfy place and forced to cringe my way through another cutscene. (Ps. How dare you, Malo IS important)

Being "Wind Waker 2", this thematic direction makes so much sense. As it was said, Wind Waker was about embracing change and letting the past go, the sequel would be about embracing that things must end and basically letting your own future go too. It's interesting to imagine how it would have carried out in a continuation of Wind Waker's world: Some expanded seafaring, but now with twilight liminal zones? A new continent, or perhaps, multiple ones seperated by open sea (which itself can serve as its own liminal space)? And with Ganondorf having been killed effectually in the first game, it makes a lot of sense for him to arrive in the Twilight Realm to then attempt at taking over there: Exploiting angry and vain souls like Zant, who is unwilling to accept that his life is over and how that means he cannot ever live as a king. The Twilight Realm basically being a purgatory for souls who are still in the liminal space of having past disputes and passions left unsettled. I can imagine this version of Ganondorf having his execution scar on top of his head rather than through the chest, this time holding a ghostly version of the master sword that killed him. It would also have been a chance to shed some light on how the process works that keeps making it possible to ressurect him.

1:21:30 Comparing the attachment rate between a GameCube game and a Wii game seems strange to me. IMHO most Wii owners were casual people not really into gaming, e.g. lured into the console by Wii Sports.

Now I want Ceave to read the Zelda Twilight Princess manga and report back to see how it does the story differently. I’ve never read it and don’t have time, but have always wanted to hear a comparison of the manga and game

you know, itd be really interesting if the zelda team leaned in fully into the dark themes and gave the *player* the option to fall into temptation over the fused shadow as prophesied by the metophorical vision from the light spirit. they never do follow up on it at all. it doesnt even have to be a game over type deal. it could then come fill circle to collin, who has to stand up to link in his corruped state.

2:09 But Ceave, the final boss IS a Hoglin! Or, er, looks like one. I like how the ‘not the final boss’ joke is always something similar to the final boss & only people who have seen the final boss will make the connection.

I feel like the chests appearing out of nowhere can just be explained by magic. Like Zant put a magic seal on the chest and once you destroyed the dark enemies the seal went away. And a character does get controlled like a puppet, Zelda in the final boss.

Cynical critiques truly are the downfall of media literacy

I have genuinely never hated a video essay more in my entire life. It’s one thing if you personally don’t like this game’s story, but you shouldn’t throw around moral issues like the ending having culturally insensitive implications or whatever so frivolously. This is one of my favorite games of all time, and the reason Zelda has been such a major hyperfixation for most of my life. I’m also extremely autistic. It probably wasn’t a good idea to watch a video essay about why my favorite Zelda game is apparently “””objectively bad””” in the first place, and I was already yelling at the screen, but being told that the ending of my favorite Zelda game apparently has racist implications genuinely hurt me in my very core. I actually had to step away from the video and cry. I was convinced that I had to agree with you or else I was just making excuses for racism. It wasn’t until I talked to a couple of friends about it that I realized that this is complete bulblinshit. First of all, this game is absolutely not trying to express themes of accepting other cultures. We barely even know anything about the Twili’s actual culture, we just spend the entire game fixing their political problems. And if this really is what they were trying to do with the Twili, there are other holes earlier in the story. Why does Midna literally almost die from being in the other culture’s land? Why are the Twili descended from light-dwelling Hylians who went rogue and used dark magic? Why is the only doorway between the cultures literally made by the gods? Besides, I feel like this is a lesson Hyrule should already know, ESPECIALLY this version of Hyrule. I mean, they literally have Gorons and Zoras integrated into their societies. If Hyrule can accept fish people and big rocky guys into their society, I’m sure they wouldn’t have any problems with the vaguely goth aliens. I feel like you’re almost hitting the mark when you bring up the potential themes of life and death, because I actually do think that’s what the game is going for. It’s just that it’s not as obvious as you want it to be, so you just decided “it’s not there and they replaced it with this other thing I arbitrarily thought of”. The Lanayru hallucination scene (the one you dismissed as just “random meaningless imagery”) explained the backstory of the Twili race as a whole. They were originally light dwellers who used dark magic and got banished to the Twilight Realm, eventually just adapting to the environment. To me, this sounds a hell of a lot like in Christianity when Lucifer and a bunch of other angels tried to rebel against God and get banished to Hell. The Twili are not dead spirits, they’re outsiders made to live AMONG the dead, forever stuck in that weird limbo between the two states of being, or dare I say…Twilight? So yes, the Twili ARE a group of people with a unique culture, TECHNICALLY. But to say the entire game is trying to express themes of cultural acceptance because of this is a massive stretch, *ESPECIALLY* when it causes you to see the ending as potentially racist. Just be careful with accusations like that, please. This is a piece of art, and art is a very subjective thing. Unless what you’re talking about has blunt racism in the actual text, or the creators themselves are outed as racists, bringing up that interpretation just adds an unnecessary moral issue to the discussion. It can come off like you’re just trying to be more “””””””objectively correct””””””” than everyone else by virtue signaling. It’s gross and performative, and you only did it to put down a story you personally didn’t like.

33:14 You're taking this way too literally. Its obviously not meant to feature events that happen

The idea of the dead turning into, or rather, transitioning into, the twili also wraps up the whole earlier bit about the person who was attacked being transformed into one as well.

Props to Ceave for not having any sponsors

I do disagree with a good few of the points in this video, but I think most of the comments have already addressed most of that. I did just want to say that I appreciate you looking at details that aren't normally talked about when discussing this game. for example pointing out that not only the story but gameplay emphasize the loss of midna in her rescue section, fighting enemies without her attack, not something i've seen talked about specifically before.

When I was a kid the mounted combat with the goblins and subsequent jousting with the boss was one of the most epic experiences I've had in gaming. If I need a bunch of children to get kidnapped to have that, that's the price I'm willing to pay.

Your videos are the best videos to watch while working on a project!!

This link has a flat arch. and honestly if there was only one zelda game and one hero of courage, it might be a risk to have your main character have a flat arch but there are so many zelda game and so many links not every one of them has to have a traditional character arch. in fact it feels like Midna is more of the main character and link is her guardian helping her set things right. Kinda like how final fantasy 10 made the player a regular party member and Yuna was the chosen hero destined to save the world and the party follows her. If there was only one final fantasy game that'd be kinda weird, but after 9 games of being the chosen hero/party leader it's an interesting twist to be a side character.

the planned existence of a windwaker sequel is really interesting given a certain game that came out a year ago

I don't have a problem with Zant breaking down into temper tantrums because his plans have just fallen apart and he pretty much knows that he is not leaving with his life. I wish there was more glimpses into his madness, but we learn at the start of the game that his ambitions for things denied to him because of his worldviews are the cause for is rebellion and title of Usurper King Zant. But it is not like Zelda has ever had proper lore or told a story that didn't contradict itself at every turn.

Great video Ceave! Keep up the hard work. Also I hope the algorithm starts to love you as much as all your fans do!

Idk, I thought the story was very good, outside of Zelda coming back at the end. Link’s character isn’t super important, it’s all about how he helps other people. The way I see it, Colin and his ark is the way it is because he is young. He has always looked up to link, so when Link saves him, Colin realizes how much he truly cares about helping people. When Link nods his head, it’s simultaneously a way to make Colin feel better, as well as reassurance that he will help restore peace to the place that he now resides. Additionally, the Twilight is really only called that, not because it’s meant to block out the light, but because the race is called the “Twili”. It’s still oddly confusing like you said, but I definitely think it’s at least understandable enough with setting aside real world parallels. I also think that the cutscene after the third Tears of Light segment is well done symbolism, as it’s meant to warn Link about the power of the Fused shadow, and the warning of not abusing its power. It inserts Link and his best friend, and shows how the power can manipulate him to attack his best friend, as that is what happened to the interlopers. And when they lost that power, when it was sealed away, they had lost everything. And it was meant as a warning for Link to not fall for the immense power of Shadow. I definitely think the story has flaws, but I ultimately think that it’s the characters like Midna, Colin, the Hero’s Shade, and Zant, that elevate the game immensely. That cutscene is ultimately a really great parallel to Zant, when it is revealed that he swore himself to Ganondorf in an attempt to gain any power at all, because of his greed and selfishness. And when the mask comes off, his true power shows itself, that being a weak man who doesn’t have any skills of his own. And it is beautifully shown in his boss fight. All he does is reuse tactics from fights you’ve already done. He has nothing to offer himself. All he does is copy and throw everything at you. When that doesn’t work, he flails around and tries to attack Link with no real skill or energy, but Link is a talented swordsman, and beats him. It all works really well. When we see that cutscene, we are warned about how power can consume you, and then we see someone like Zant, where that power completely consumed him. It works really well in my opinion, but I also think that the story is a little messy in many ways. Pretty much everything else you mentioned, especially the kidnappings that are very very poorly written, are all valid complaints to the story. I just figured I’d offer up my perspective.

My God you have too much fucking free time on your hands

Twilight Princess has a lot of issues. I’m surprised it’s as highly praised as it is. You’d think the wolf sections would be the best parts of the game but actually they’re incredibly slow and boring.

One thing you're missing from the conspiracy board is the SpaceWorld 2000 tech demo. Back in '99, Nintendo was losing to the Dreamcast and the Playstation-- the majority of gamers were interested in more powerful graphics these consoles brought over the N64. Nintendo thus does a hail mary with the Gamecube and the SpaceWorld 2000 demo showing updated models of OOT Adult Link and Ganondorf having a duel in a ruined castle. This demo was what the Western world had as preview for the new Zelda game. Speculation ran wild over a Zelda OOT sequel with a mature Link, with Ganon returning, with complex combat, with competing graphics. A different sequel from Majora's Mask following the fallen adult timeline instead of the happy ending we got in OOT. Then, two years later after rumors and real no official information, we all of a sudden get Wind Waker. A bright, bubbly, young Link in new world with nothing to do with the Hyrule from OOT. A new Zelda for the Gamecube and a complete disappointment in the eyes of the Western audience after years of build up. This is why Wind Waker was a failure. At face it appeared to be the complete opposite of everything that was promised by the tech demo. People wanted a mature Link building upon the themes of Majora's Mask set after OOT... not "baby's first adventure game." This is why Wind Waker 2 was dropped for Twilight Princess. It was a complete heel turn because the sales data was really the first time the Japanese developers had any idea what the Western community was hyping up. The Japanese developers weren't even aware the SpaceWorld tech demo was shown. Nintendo basically put out fires by saying Wind Waker wasn't the sequel, there was yet another Zelda game coming, the one the Western audience wanted; it just wasn't ready yet. It will launch with the Wii. Twilight Princess HAD to be a success. Nintendo couldn't risk a second disappointment after five years of hyping it up at this point. More writers. More staff. More resources in the new hardware! Shove everything at the game! Doesn't matter if it was already in the oven, put more cooks in the kitchen!

your attachment rate graph at the end makes no sense and does not matter at all. The wii had a way bigger playerbase precisely because it was such a widely appealing console. If anything, it is even more impressive it was able to sell that many copies on a console that diehard nintendo fans would consider casual!

They pulled a 96 metacritic game and it was the best selling game until BOTW came out. For me it was the last great Zelda. SS, BOTW and TOTK have some good moments but definitely not for me. People complain a lot about some of its aspects but complaining about the ending is definitely an unpopular opinion. Unfortunately after MM they put Aonuma on charge of the franchise. First thing he does is ditching all aesthethics OOT/MM built and threw the franchise into this endless identity crisis and fandom fight. Even Miyamoto wasn't happy with his decision. I wonder how Zelda would be nowadays if it had a more consistent evolution like 3D Mario, Souls games, GTA, Elder's Scroll. Lucky as I am my favorite franchise was handled to someone who hates Zelda.

As a warning: This following post contains a lot of extrapolation and assumption... But I feel like if the intention were that the Twili were 'the spirits of the dead', that changes a lot of things about Twilight Princess' narrative, especially given their obvious connection to the Gerudo and Arbiter's Grounds. We know that the Interlopers were the Twili, we know that the Twili were imprisoned in the Twili Realm for their role in the Gerudo-Hylian War that ends with many Gerudo (and Ganondorf) being executed. We also know from throughout the Child Timeline, Hyrule Kingdom and the Royal family have a Dark history of Torture and Execution in the name of protecting and contuing the Royal Family. There's also a very likely connection between the Twili and the Sheikah, just due to the iconography of the symbols alone. Now, it's never outright confirmed or said, but this would definitely cement that the Twili 'evolved' from the Gerudo who were executed and sent to the Twilight Realm.We can also be somewhat sure there is a connection between the Twilight Interlopers and the Ancient, Evil, Magical Tribe that made Majora's Mask (again, iconography- compare MM and Midna's Helmet- plus, both races would have been punished for the same thing, going against the Gods of Hyrule- let's not forget the imagery in the Stone Tower Temple, where its people mocked and hated the Goddesses who literally turned their world upside down). And while it's obviously the most recent addition to the lore, the Zonai are obviously very connected to the Sheikah at the very least, and everyone acknowledges the strange appearance of the Hero from BotW's past, red hair (which is a very iconic 'Gerudo' trait), plus his weird similarities to Ganon's Demon form (like his tail). I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to suggest that all of these things are connected to each other. Even in our own history, many races intermingled and well, our DNA and lineage proves that there is a provably connection between almost any two people if you go back far enough. So it's not unfair to assume the same principle applies here, especially when wars were involved. Desperate times call for desperate measures, as they say- the Gerudo race would literally not be able to exist without doing what I'm implying, anyways- we already know that they chose Hylian Husbands from time to time- it's not that much of a stretch to say that Sheikah and Gerudo got in the mix, too... Or maybe these these peoples' have no connection to each other in their history- but to me, that sounds incredibly unlikely, and implausible to me, from a practical/realistic/pragmatic standpoint. And it's always been my belief that any connections or similarities things have, at least 'beyond a few coincidences', must be intentional, and must be meaningful and significant. I will concede that it's entirely plausible that the similarities and connections are merely from a meta, outside perspective- being based on the same re-used concepts and ideas- after all, this is 'The Legend of Zelda', and as Fi indicates, oral tradition is the least reliable of information retention- these may be the same story retold with different races, cultures, time periods, dimensions, worlds, etc... But that's the most boring answer.

What a coincidence! I just rewatched your Superstar Saga video earlier today. Looking forward to this!

Ironically it sort of feels like Aunouma actually *was* taking on board some of the reception and so went for a somewhat darker storyline and themes again, which paired with the more 'realistic' animation style would probably have been a success without requiring any of the additional rewrites.

33:03 Okay, I can't necessarily stand 100% beside you on this take, because I believe I get it. Link and Ilia in these cutscenes are "actors". They REPRESENT different characters as avatars more or less, so you can't take it literal. I mean there is no excuse to portray it like that and that doesn't make it better, but to me, just understanding what they were going for makes me hate it less.

The intro question was probably just a hypothetical

35:04, but there is, Zelda herself gets possesed in the final battle. Also, that whole cutscene is just a visual representation, that even between two good friends or lovers, the idea of power of the triforce wields corrupts absolutely, even heroes like Link. For the interlopers I think they are supposed to represent the other side of the same coin, they are still people who were once normal denizens of Hyrule who once used destructive means to regain their place in the light realm. The multiple Ilias might just be a representation of what Link would get corrupted by, even a hero like his still has desires he could betray his own values for such a promise. I do agree this doesn't have much of a resolution, Link really cannot stir off from his heroic path because he's the player in a sense, but Midna does learn of sacrifice and mercy, I think had she not, she'd have killed Zelda when Ganondorf possesed her and Ganondorf would've won, since Zelda was a key player in defeating him in the end.

I just want to reiterate that I am so glad you're back to making videos Ceave! Always a pleasure!

This absolutely does not have the worst ending

Just gotta say I love how you update your channel banner with a new character for every new vid 🔥

With the change recommended and with the context of Demise’s curse from Skyward Sword, Midna will be there to watch over Link’s soul until he reincarnates again.

Your analyses are awesome man

This guy didnt even mention links crossbow training once, cant take these opinions seriously without such important info.

36:10 honestly such a good transition in the video. complete change in tone I was losing stamina at this point of the vidoe but the way you transition to this point made me excited to keep watching

YIPPEE NEW CEAVE VIDEO!!!!! I always love watching these videos while I draw. I can’t wait to watch this!!!!

Absolutely fantastic video, so much research... great job, thank you yet again.

wow the way you always put stories together like this are amazing. your version of the story would have made this game one of the best stories I've ever heart.

I assume the Zelda we talk to at the beginning of the game is just a spirit and that her real body is and has always been in the throne room. Whether she's like, astral projecting or straight up dead or some other thing who knows. Zelda mentions that she hid her soul in Midna so it explains why she came back.

Literally just finished the Outer Wilds video after beating the game yesterday, and now there's ANOTHER new Ceave video to watch! It must be my birthday.