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How Noise Improves Computing 

Sabine Hossenfelder
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It sounds weird, but randomness can actually improve computer calculations, in certain circumstances. After some digging into the reasons why, I’ve uncovered three different ways this can happen. The first one is noisy computation, then there’s stochastic computation, and then there’s probabilistic computation. What exactly are the differences and how do they help computation? Let’s have a look.
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12 апр 2024

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Комментарии : 388   
@victorkrawchuk9141
@victorkrawchuk9141 Месяц назад
As a heavy metal fan I'm glad that noise is finally getting the attention and respect it deserves.
@brb__bathroom
@brb__bathroom Месяц назад
I am gonna blast my speakers with speedcore, gonna scare that CPU into overdrive
@TLguitar
@TLguitar Месяц назад
Perhaps you mean _"grindcore_ fan".
@quatore-5886
@quatore-5886 Месяц назад
Thanks Mr clever
@johnkeck
@johnkeck Месяц назад
Not the admission I’d expect from a fan
@epapanak
@epapanak Месяц назад
I have calculated that moving to renewables it is much cheaper to 100% finance Greek families acquiring zero cost renewable energy(sun,air, battery), than the Government giving subsidies, tax breaks and costs of improvement of the electric grid. This finding changes the present approach to funding , and promotes the transfer from fossil to renewables. I have been writing letters to the President of the European Commission, to the Greek Prime Minister and others , arguing and presenting the savings with numbers and data. Additionally, the management, resilience and security of the electric grid will be much better with this approach The social impact of financing the citizens for acquiring renewable energy (sun,air, battery) will be enormous in the abundant production of goods and freedom of the citizens. Could I kindly ask you to, please consider, explore and present this approach. 😊
@imikla
@imikla Месяц назад
I built a hardware random number generator in the 70s by reverse biasing a germanium transistor to it's breakdown voltage. I used the resulting white noise to make random 1s and 0s that were constantly flowing through a shift register. When you pressed a button, it would use the random bits in the shift register and a bit of logic to present a number on a 7-segment display. The random number would be between 1 and 6. A true random die. Got an A+ in my 9th grade science class for designing and building it. That was a lot more than ten years ago.
@maverick9708
@maverick9708 Месяц назад
I don't know if you still have any of the schematics or pictures, but I recently started dabbling in electronics and designing circuits myself so I'm thinking about wanting to try building something similar. Sounds like a great time :)
@imikla
@imikla Месяц назад
@@maverick9708 I wish I did, I don't have the die anymore either. Sold it in desperate times. But I pretty much have what I did in my head. It's on my list of things to recreate from the past for my other channel (which would be rude of me to mention here).
@TooSlowTube
@TooSlowTube Месяц назад
@@maverick9708 There are a lot of schematics and partial schematics for analog synthesizers available online (electronic musical instruments, in case the context is unclear). There are two main types of noise generator circuit that have been used. One uses a simple device like a transistor as the main element, making a true random source (but subject to electromagnetic interference). The other uses a shift register starting from a known state, but producing a usefully long pseudo random sequence, by feeding the output back to different stages of the shift register - for example look at the circuit for the TR-909’s noise generator. Both types are meant to produce audio noise, but they can just as easily be used to produce a random or pseudo random one bit number. You might need a comparator circuit (e.g. op amp based), to get a binary value from the transistor based one, which you can also use to change the probability of getting a 1 or a 0, by changing the threshold voltage.
@axle.student
@axle.student Месяц назад
That's way kool. P.S. I was doing that wiz kid stuff back in the day too. Had way heaps of fun, except for the beatings for being a geek, that wasn't fun.
@ShonMardani
@ShonMardani Месяц назад
There is no use of random generation in computer science except to generate unique id / key. Generating random values in all other applications is because of lack of real data. There is no other use of randomization in science or technology. If we depend on, or reference to randomization, we are faking since it will not be reproducible.
@johngiraldi1150
@johngiraldi1150 Месяц назад
As a computer engineer at IBM (1977-1983) we used "simulated annealing" techniques on our next flagship mainframe for chip/circuit placement at many packaging levels to minimize power requirements, eliminate wiring bottlenecks and to maximize processor speed.
@kensho123456
@kensho123456 Месяц назад
I wish you lot would stop using stupid prentious names for these things....enough already begorrah.
@0MoTheG
@0MoTheG Месяц назад
I experimented with that too for placing. You still have to define a cost, potential function, not easy. I never got useful results.
@joshuascholar3220
@joshuascholar3220 Месяц назад
I've used it to find and optimize nonstandard kinds of filters for sound processing. It worked very well. Note that if the filter had been based on common form then I could have used an already known formula to make it instead of using an optimizer.
@lujoconnor
@lujoconnor Месяц назад
Something very much like the "truth probabilities" trick, which I hadn't heard of, is widely used in computational linear algebra, where it is often possible to approximate difficult matrix computations with the help of random vectors.
@matthewcahill4475
@matthewcahill4475 Месяц назад
Yeah aerodynamics calculations use that, the solutions are too large to directly calculate so a psuedo random Jacobian iteration is used
@ShonMardani
@ShonMardani Месяц назад
There is no use of random generation in computer science except to generate unique id / key. Generating random values in all other applications is because of lack of real data. There is no other use of randomization in science or technology. If we depend on, or reference to randomization, we are faking since it will not be reproducible.
@kurtiserikson7334
@kurtiserikson7334 Месяц назад
Efficiency from chaos. I love the irony. That’s the excuse I’ll use the next time my wife complains about my messy desk.
@almightysapling
@almightysapling Месяц назад
You need to keep a variety of tools in level 1 cache.
@imho4556
@imho4556 Месяц назад
It's not irony. It's a higher and more general level of efficiency. Would there be e. g. life on earth without it? BTW: Be careful not to create life on your desk 😉
@kurtiserikson7334
@kurtiserikson7334 Месяц назад
@@imho4556 Definition of irony: An outcome that is opposite of what you would expect. Chaos is not generally associated with the idea of efficiency. It provides efficiency in this context when developing a program that needs random numbers since there is no formula for generating random numbers which is why lottery numbers are generated by numbered ping pong balls. Chaos is a component of nature and economics and is therefore necessary when modeling natural systems. It doesn’t matter if the irony has a rational explanation, all irony does, it just has to be counter intuitive like a criminal who has been in and out of jail and ends up becoming a prosecutor or the chief of police. It’s possible, but contrary to conventional expectation.
@UnderscoreZeroLP
@UnderscoreZeroLP Месяц назад
@@kurtiserikson7334autism vs autism
@super8hell
@super8hell Месяц назад
There's an idea percolating in the neuroscience for years that stochastic resonance also exists in neuronal processing. Claims suggest that internal (brain) noise enhances a sensory target detection among environmental noise. Interesting idea that captured my attention for a while, difficult to capture though.
@gregorseidel8203
@gregorseidel8203 Месяц назад
Not to mention that mini-batch gradient descent, a variant of stochastic gradient descent, is the current standard for training artificial neural networks. Just to nitpick: according to the Tokyo university paper, the annealing processor system used roughly 100 seconds rather than 1000 (8:37). The caption is correct.
@burakgursoy1388
@burakgursoy1388 Месяц назад
2:44: Sarcastic computing
@seriousmaran9414
@seriousmaran9414 Месяц назад
I think you can easily add sarcastic physics to that.
@drkcobra
@drkcobra Месяц назад
I would be less afraid of this machine wanting to be called Hal than if it told me, "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."
@johnl4885
@johnl4885 Месяц назад
Tim Palmer's excellent book, "The Primacy of Doubt," gives several examples of chaos geometry that shows how randomness actually enhances computational results for Lorentz systems. BTW Sabine reviewed this book and gave it a nice accolade on the backside of the dust sleeve.
@darthmoomoo
@darthmoomoo Месяц назад
One big application of randomness is in Monte-Carlo simulations. This is used to ascertain effects of parameter uncertainties in highly complex systems. E.g. spacecraft algorithms are frequently validated using Monte-Carlo sims where the various spacecraft parameters are randomly scattered based on the uncertainty in their values.
@aaronmicalowe
@aaronmicalowe Месяц назад
This method has been in use for much longer than 10 years. Back in the 80s, my Amiga had such a device. It worked like this. The scan line on the monitor was faster than the device measuring it, leading to an error that was exploited. This error was used as a random seed to generate genuine random numbers. Even my ZX81 uses something similar and it was made in 1981 (hence the name).
@jonwesick2844
@jonwesick2844 Месяц назад
Back in the 90s, a company called NOMOS used simulated annealing to plan radiation treatment.
@imikla
@imikla Месяц назад
Agree. I built a hardware random number generator in the 70s by reverse biasing a germanium transistor to produce white noise that I used to make a constant stream of random bits.
@float32
@float32 Месяц назад
@@imiklasome Intel processors (and probably others) have this built in as “true” random number generators.
@aaronmicalowe
@aaronmicalowe Месяц назад
@@imikla The funny thing is, when trying to get ordered output, we sometimes end up accidently creating random noise. 🤷‍♂
@EinsteinsHair
@EinsteinsHair Месяц назад
Wish I could remember the details better. I wanted to get a pair of random 0s or 1s on the ZX81, so 00, 01, 10, or 11. I found that the probabilities were not exactly 1/4 for each, but if I ran it a large number of times, there was always a very slight bias for the numbers to be the same, 00 or 11. It wasn't by much. Really enjoyed the Timex Sinclair version of BASIC, though.
@davidtucker1555
@davidtucker1555 Месяц назад
I have two favorite uses of randomness. The first is in down sampling an image. Say you want to reduce the resolution by a factor of 64. You would normally go through the source image in blocs of 64x64 and average them to compute a pixel on the destination image. However you can just randomly sample a few pixels in the source region and average those for a much faster process, that does not suffer from bad aliasing. The other is in trying to digitize a weak analog signal. Say you have an analog sine wave that fluctuates between 1 and 2. The digital signal will be a simple square wave that is 1 for half the time and 2 for the other half of the time. But by injecting randomness into the source signal, you end up with a signal that randomly goes from 1 to 2 based roughly on the gain of the source signal. You end up capturing the signal with more fidelity as a pulse code modulated output.
@MrAlanCristhian
@MrAlanCristhian Месяц назад
3:50 Even ChatGPT isn't safe from Sabine 🤣
@tarmaque
@tarmaque Месяц назад
I think a Turing test between ChatGPT and Sabine would be fascinating.
@Kenjuudo
@Kenjuudo Месяц назад
@@tarmaque ChatGPT would start questioning its free will.
@tarmaque
@tarmaque Месяц назад
@@Kenjuudo According to Sabine, free will is an illusion. So... Yeah.
@lorensims4846
@lorensims4846 Месяц назад
I used noise for years in Photoshop filters. Often it's just the right je ne sais quoi to help sharpen OR blur a specific part of an image just right, and for MANY other uses. I've also been long fascinated by the phenomenon of undertones and overtones caused by resonances between two different tones. Back in the old days, we would get pseudorandom numbers by arbitrarily sampling a timer or sound generator. It can be quite difficult to come up with truly random numbers because there seems to be some sort of pattern to almost any source of data you choose.
@theophrastusbomblastus821
@theophrastusbomblastus821 Месяц назад
IMO, perhaps Sabine's best video to date. Incredibly important concepts presented here. If you watch it once, watch it three times. Keep in mind anything humans have done, nature did a long time ago, so these concepts have value to all disciplines of science. Also, any video that mentions stochastic in the proper context (ie, without being stupid as hell), is a good thing, a very good thing indeed.
@mingto7753
@mingto7753 Месяц назад
Thanks, Sabine. Your talk took me down the winding memory lane of collaborative research efforts of UBC/Dr John A. Wheeler's Exxon tech memo on Random walk(2D Markov chain process)/ University of Calgary Geophysics dept PhD thesis on 3 D random walk/ University of Alberta, and of course D:Wave.
@JouMxyzptlk
@JouMxyzptlk Месяц назад
3:42 Video error: Should be "50%: either 01 or 10". Which proves: I watched it :D
@Irondragon1945
@Irondragon1945 Месяц назад
i was wondering why nobody else pointed it out lol
@JouMxyzptlk
@JouMxyzptlk Месяц назад
@@Irondragon1945 Believe me, I was wondering the same since that video was a few hours up when I watched it.
@bioxbiox
@bioxbiox Месяц назад
Proud researcher on applied Chaos theory. This video directly enters in my golden archive. Sabine is amazing, as always.
Месяц назад
I worked for a company (Nanoteq, SA) in 1998 that made a computer card that used white noise from an antenna to generate random number when it does hardware encryption of transactional data on the fly. It was very successful and even Commerce Bank (DE) used it back then.
@Nostrudoomus
@Nostrudoomus Месяц назад
Thanks, I have long wondered if such things could be done!
@MrKelaher
@MrKelaher Месяц назад
Fun current use to me - stable diffusion image AI starts from a random noise image, it reduces the number of generations needed to get a "good" image.
@AnimusInvidious
@AnimusInvidious Месяц назад
Really enjoyed this analysis of the topic. Thank you, Sabine and team.
@SurfinScientist
@SurfinScientist Месяц назад
Sabine, you forgot one more class of computation: 4. Noise-driven computation, which uses noise to drive computation. An example is "Brownian circuits", which use Brownian motion to make signals search their way through a circuit so that a deterministic outcome is obtained. Another example is circuits in which the signals are noise sources or superpositions thereof like in quantum computing. There have been research on implementing Brownian circuits by Single Electron Tunneling circuits, as well as by spintronics based on skyrmions.
@jeffgriffith9692
@jeffgriffith9692 Месяц назад
So interesting - appreciate your insight!
@aaronjennings8385
@aaronjennings8385 Месяц назад
I assume that stochastic and sarchastic mean similar things. That's why stochastic climate models are so super dee duper accurate.
@iriscapes
@iriscapes Месяц назад
Many recent CPUs support the RDRAND and RDSEED instructions for returning random numbers from an on-chip hardware random number generator. Also, many SoCs that contain ARM CPU cores contain a HWRNG peripheral (/dev/hw_random).
@ChanakyanStudent7971
@ChanakyanStudent7971 Месяц назад
I actually worked on a project for my networking course last year which involved using randomness for optimisation, but you might be well aware that it was all for research paper publishing rather than actually improving humanity. (Like 99% of research papers)
@MCsCreations
@MCsCreations Месяц назад
Randomness is highly used for games as well, Sabine. For card games, for example. 😊 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
@eonasjohn
@eonasjohn Месяц назад
Thank you for the video.
@daleamon2547
@daleamon2547 Месяц назад
That metal plate solution made me think of the Simulated Annealing algorithm, with volume as a stand in for the 'temperature'.
@timmccormack3930
@timmccormack3930 Месяц назад
A correction on pseudo-random number generators (PRNGs): They don't have to be very computationally intensive at all. The only requirement is that they algorithm be uncorrelated with how the output will be used. Their main problem is actually that they need to be "seeded" with an initial random number, and that's not feasible in some applications (such as in a computer on its first startup.) That's where true RNGs come in-a bit of hardware that is guaranteed to give a random value each time even though it can't keep notes about its internal state. (And generally you only use it to seed the PRNG.)
@simonleung2130
@simonleung2130 Месяц назад
You can generate a random number with some math function and taking the decimal part. for example , you can take square root of the product of date time in msec and a random number generated by the computer, and then take the decimal parts , if you plot the results graphically , you will find that it looks liked a white noise.
@matthewcahill4475
@matthewcahill4475 Месяц назад
Cheers bud, gonna save that idea for later
@sosomadman
@sosomadman Месяц назад
Still predetermined
@user-uf4rx5ih3v
@user-uf4rx5ih3v Месяц назад
Sometimes, when an algorithm needs to make a choice but doesn't know how to make the most optimal one, making it at random is usually better, but the reason is unknown.
@Ramkumar-uj9fo
@Ramkumar-uj9fo Месяц назад
Thank you for accepting random numbers. In neural networks they actually kill certain nodes at random to avoid overfitting. 🎉They told us that radioactivity was random in which we do not know what atom decays. The word noise implies that humans cannot make out the signal as per one interpretation if you look at things lile SETI. I often got the police walkie talkie on the noise in the TV as a kid. --- ChatGPT Verified Yes, dropout regularization randomly turns off nodes during training to prevent overfitting.
@maurasmith-mitsky762
@maurasmith-mitsky762 Месяц назад
Thanks!
@SabineHossenfelder
@SabineHossenfelder Месяц назад
Thanks in return from the entire team!
@kenchilton
@kenchilton Месяц назад
From a computer science vantage, stochastic theory is in many ways the foundation of probability theory and simulated annealing. We also use it in some neural networks and genetic algorithms. What you present as stochastic computation, a simple stochastic matrix, is a very limited example of how varied the field is, and many of the later examples are still essentially stochastic computations behind the scenes. One of the other areas stochastic theory creates is the Markov process (and Markov chains) and Monte Carlo analysis. An area of research I am interested in relates to discerning the entropy of apparent noise. Any noise over a finite time has entropy and can be described with finite generators. There are interesting use cases from not only being able to create the generators, but also the processes that create the generators. This can lead to higher speed networks, higher quality processes, better cryptographic algorithms, and techniques to uncover counterfeit information, such as that generated by AI.
@marcod53
@marcod53 Месяц назад
Hey, I'm an expert (kinda) in neural computation! Noise as computational strategy is super interesting. You'd think evolution would push us to strict logic, but brains are statistics machines and on a neural population level noise gives a much better representation of signal encoding than anything strict. Neat stuff
@user-vc5zt9ci12
@user-vc5zt9ci12 Месяц назад
Is this noise our perception of free choice?
@marcomoreno6748
@marcomoreno6748 Месяц назад
I'm working with some CA RC techniques right now.
@marcomoreno6748
@marcomoreno6748 Месяц назад
​@@user-vc5zt9ci12 I would say the perception of free choice as well as sense of self breaks down upon examination techniques for example mindful meditation. Ironically, the sense of self isn't even subjectively real.
@karelberanek1007
@karelberanek1007 Месяц назад
Evolution depends on noise. Without noise it would fail to improve. You need population of members who are varying. And then apply fitness function to find the ones who are better than others. Without noise they would all be the same. All genetic algorithms, regardless whether applied by nature or a computer, require random noise. It also includes the decisions, not just biological functions. You want some people to go north while some others go south. You need some to fight, others to run. Etc.
@ErazerPT
@ErazerPT Месяц назад
@@user-vc5zt9ci12 your statement itself is the truth. "Perception of". You don't really have it as the "decision tree" is already in place, you're just running the "data" through it and getting a result. And it changes itself, so you don't even know what the result of running the same "data" again through it will be...
@rand0mn0
@rand0mn0 Месяц назад
Loved those mysterious ChatGPT 'higher math' probability calcs. Here's a fun homework project: implement a spreadsheet to run on top of ChatGPT. Using the super-smart AI Chatbot mathematical powers, the results are sure to be unpredictable and entertaining for all! 🙃
@andygoldensixties4201
@andygoldensixties4201 Месяц назад
thank you for the video, noise is a very interesting subject for me. I wonder if my tinnitus is stochastic.
@dadsonworldwide3238
@dadsonworldwide3238 Месяц назад
This a theme of influence showing up in countless avenues. Inspiring models on this basis. Reminds me of movie & music where to much quality & clearity makes it hard for us to zone out or dive into movies that are to clear. The distortion in sound can even distinctively stand alone as an era or genre we have created. This definitely deserves some sycho anylisis by anyone that studys our relationship with maths, science and the world around us. This simple fact its the point between dualism that we are full of historically is very interesting side note. I hear new orgin of life trying to use this and maybe something like grass, or things we miss diagnosis as life can be allocated some modeling value on this. But i would think its a more precise and accurate foundational architecture to be found non the less
@blinkingmanchannel
@blinkingmanchannel Месяц назад
Wow! My first draft of this note was very badly written. I’ll try again: Great video here. I’m trying to catch up to what we know in physical chemistry (or maybe quantum chemistry) about how to bond CO2 in the reverse Krebs cycle. A long the way, I think I understand that molecular bonds are more than just the sum of the pairs of atoms. Somebody referred me to ‘supramolecular’ chemistry, for example. I gotta be honest: it’s starting to run together… But intuitively, I feel like this survey of random numbers being useful is kinda reminding me of the ways people describe electrons. In the video, there’s a comparison of sand finding stable points on a sheet of metal with vibrations running through it. That’s quite a good illustration. I immediately thought of how electrons work. I’m trying to find the current state of thinking about how chemistry works in mitochondria, but I don’t think I’ve got the right search terms yet. Please feel free to suggest. I’ll read anything at this point. I’m particularly interested in how we might replace haber-bosch for fertilizer production, or at least stop using methane for it.
@philipm3173
@philipm3173 Месяц назад
So the big shift that will help you is to abandon the idea that the electrons are within the bonds or being bonded. ❌
@blinkingmanchannel
@blinkingmanchannel Месяц назад
@@philipm3173 Thanks! This will sound a bit elementary but I’ve found “crash course” video channel on RU-vid.
@philipm3173
@philipm3173 Месяц назад
@@blinkingmanchannel Check out the video "How atoms REALLY make molecules."
@philipm3173
@philipm3173 Месяц назад
@@blinkingmanchannel and as for the Krebs cycle I recommend "the bumbling biochemist", I think I saw they just uploaded a video on TCA
@blinkingmanchannel
@blinkingmanchannel Месяц назад
@@philipm3173Thanks! I'll comment further once I've had a chance to see those. In the meantime: 😂 RU-vid decided I'd like to see videos related to "Breaking Bad" 😮😂 So I watched some. I see why it was so popular. And I'm glad we're done with the "shaky handheld" shot.
@mentatphilosopher
@mentatphilosopher Месяц назад
Pseudo random noise is also placed on idle channels in code division multiplexing RF mobile communications instead of the “silence” encoding as it improved the overall signal error rate.
@DouglasThom
@DouglasThom Месяц назад
I watched a video that explained how an electric current 'knew' which path was open and which shorted. If you then described a maze with electrical paths, it would solve it 'instantly'. I feel like this is along those lines.
@bretthagey7916
@bretthagey7916 Месяц назад
I remember the ATARI 8-bit systems had a wild random number generator at the circuit level, I believe it was. I made some fractal graphics stuff back then and it made a perfect 48-bit float randomizer.
@s404n1tn0cc
@s404n1tn0cc Месяц назад
Great Stufff!!
@vishaltanwar30
@vishaltanwar30 Месяц назад
Never stop your work, millions of people like you and value your knowledge. Also, not all those are kid but expert in many domains.
@david_porthouse
@david_porthouse Месяц назад
If we have some gas confined by a piston inside a cylinder, then we observe at once that the piston is heavier than the Planck mass. Model it with a bit of classical Brownian motion on the scale of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, but replace this with the Fuerth Uncertainty Principle. Model gas molecules with a bit of Lucretian motion, which means random changes in direction but no change in kinetic energy. Any tendency to a Poincare cycle in the gas will be rapidly disrupted by all this randomness, and our model does not have any arrow of time issue.
@cheesedoodlefeeder
@cheesedoodlefeeder Месяц назад
Back in the day, we used noise to improve the accuracy of A/D converters. It was called "dithering"
@daleamon2547
@daleamon2547 Месяц назад
Of course the key to simulated annealing is the simulated cooling profile. You turn up the 'heat' to get large jumps (say in the position of wiring in a PCB) and then as you cool it the changes become more and more localized until the system 'crystalizes' into its satisficed optimum state.
@BooleanDisorder
@BooleanDisorder Месяц назад
Sabine, keep being awesome!
@kewkabe
@kewkabe Месяц назад
We also use noise in signal processing to boost weak analog signals (stochastic resonance).
@BjornHeijligers
@BjornHeijligers Месяц назад
@sabine. Listen to Feynman's talk about reversible computation (in tokyo when I remember correctly) to find a 4th way in which noise can drive extremely power efficient calculations. (Ah maybe I should have listened to your talk first ;) . You are talking about it indirectly. ). Thanks for all the great content.
@vaclavkrpec2879
@vaclavkrpec2879 Месяц назад
Probabilistic computing is indeed fascinating, but also theoretically rather taxing. BPP (bounded-error probabilistic polynomial) class of problems contain many highly practical ones. Their solutions analysis (algorithm correctness and complexity) is in sharp contrast with their perceived simplicity. I remember that back at the uni, we did analyse a simple BPP algorithm for hypercube routing (this is used in supercomputers with hypercube architecture to efficiently pass information between CPUs). The algorithm can be implemented in ~10 lines of code. The analysis took half of the semester. :-)
@HughChing
@HughChing Месяц назад
Source of creativity.
@tsbrownie
@tsbrownie Месяц назад
Next they'll be making add on hardware dedicated to graphics!
@rlsmith6904
@rlsmith6904 Месяц назад
The Texas Instruments TI-58 was considered “powerful” at introduction in the 1980’s. The random number generator would repeat after ~1000 iterations. Not very random. But it would generate a solution if one recognized the RNG’s limitations. The tools have definitely gotten better.
@francisverhelst9375
@francisverhelst9375 Месяц назад
Noise allows to upsample AD converters form eg from 10 to 12 bits because the noise is not randomly distributed
@TheGingerjames123
@TheGingerjames123 Месяц назад
Each randomness generation has its implicit bias(no bias is itself a bias). I believe the closest we can get to a truely random must be an aggregate of all the techniques(the technique used for a specific problem would itself be chosen randomly which proposes a derivative regression problem but I digress). Its also worth considering if we are even asking the right question. Many physics data manifests as cyclical, it could be that chaotic dynamic systems are just a huge number of cyclical patterns laid over top each other, and true random is a ghost we've imagined to exist
@larryl43
@larryl43 Месяц назад
thank you
@kurt7020
@kurt7020 Месяц назад
PRNGs - Strongly preferred! Easier to debug; Test can be seeded to be reproducible. They produce more even distributions for crypto work. Their security is testable and quantifiable. (See Yarrow, Fortuna, etc.) Much higher throughput with no pool exhaustion. That said, great vid! Cool to see options on the horizon.
@__christopher__
@__christopher__ Месяц назад
But for cryptographic applications you generally want to seed your cryptographic PRNG with a true RNG.
@kurt7020
@kurt7020 Месяц назад
@@__christopher__ Agreed!
@alex79suited
@alex79suited Месяц назад
So, I'm going off topic, Sabina. I was doing some listening to a program, and I was listening to the physics dude and his way of thinking. And it occurred to me that his way of thinking reminded me of my son at 5 years old. And it shocked me at first. Then, as I was lying, there I thought how could I have a conversation with someone that thinks like that seriously. I'm still wondering if this way of thinking has become normal in the field. To be quite honest, I find listening to you, Sabina, to be more adult like. Are they so hardwired to this way of thinking, I wonder. Could they ever really understand if it slapped them right in the face. Anyway, another great video,Sabina. Thanks for being the adult of the field. Peace ✌️ 😎. I'm still baffled about this. I would have to explain it like to my 5 year old. Incredible. Thanks, kid. He will be 29.
@seanb3516
@seanb3516 Месяц назад
I Got 0.99 Problems, But the Noise Ain't 1.00
@s90210h
@s90210h Месяц назад
Dithering is used in digital audio to give more headroom
Месяц назад
Im wondering if that will lead us to the first infinite improbability drive.
@davidnicholson4136
@davidnicholson4136 Месяц назад
I'd be looking at an analogue solution to the random generator problem. Perhaps the Brownian motion in an on-board liquid or it might be more practical to use a gas.
@luizbotelho1908
@luizbotelho1908 Месяц назад
It could be the " Rugitus principia mathematica " - Methods Of Bosonic Path Integrals Representations: Random System On Classical Physics UK ed. Edition by Luiz C. L. Botelho (Author)
@KipIngram
@KipIngram Месяц назад
The thing is, for most applications of "random" numbers, pseudo-random numbers are good enough, and computers are VERY good at producing those, in extremely large quantities. They're not "truly" random, because they are generated by algorithms, and repeating the algorithm with the same inputs will always produce exactly the same stream. But they do pass the primary standard tests for randomness in a sequence, so they can get the job done. For most simulation purposes I'd expect them to be fine.
@joshuascholar3220
@joshuascholar3220 Месяц назад
There are also algorithms that use some randomness for problems that aren't exactly optimization problems. For instance there are some linear problems whose solutions can be found much more efficiently with algorithms that use some randomness and converge on a solution rather than compute that solution directly. Another point is that simulated annealing is a useful kind of algorithm even on conventional computers using pseudo randomness rather than hardware random sources
@schmetterling4477
@schmetterling4477 Месяц назад
If you are using simulated annealing for optimization problems then you are at least 80 years old and you have stopped reading the literature over 40 years ago. There are much, much better modern algorithms for most such problems.
@joshuascholar3220
@joshuascholar3220 Месяц назад
@@schmetterling4477 well, I was using the library of routines from "Numerical Recipes in C". However I just saw an article mention linear solutions that can be found hundreds of times faster with an algorithm that has a little bit of randomness in it. That might be related to Avi Wigderson getting the 2023 Turing Award, I'm not sure. I guess that was 80 years ago.
@Warp9pnt9
@Warp9pnt9 Месяц назад
Hardware RNG cards have existed for 25+ years, not 10. I remember reading about them in the late 1990s and it seemed an established industry, just small and niche. FYI, "noise" algorithms can also be seeded by this RNG and generate 2D maps that can be interpreted as topographical information used in the procedural generation of video-game world terrain. I'm not sure how to utilize such techniques to generate randomness such as caves and spires or plateaus, though I suppose it's possible. Randomness helps keeps humans entertained as they jog on digital hamster wheels.
@mettaursp309
@mettaursp309 Месяц назад
Caves can be done with cellular automata on noise iteratively to create a sort of "surface tension" type effect joining neighbors & smoothing them out. Plateaus could be done with perlin noise & fractal perlin noise with a max() function to chop the tops of hills off. Spires could be done with weighted perlin noise, exaggerating the peaks & flattening the rest. Gradual steps & layers on any of the 3 could be done with an effect similar to cel shading, where you bias generated data points near certain ranges to clamp to a certain value, or be weighted to approach it faster.
@lukabostick4245
@lukabostick4245 Месяц назад
Amazing video
@dsm2088
@dsm2088 Месяц назад
Excellent
@Nostrudoomus
@Nostrudoomus Месяц назад
Very INTERESTING 🧐 now tell us about the latest chemistry news in German chemistry publications?
@Simon-ir6mq
@Simon-ir6mq Месяц назад
randomness is super powerful! The classical best-known maxcut algorithm by goemans-williamson also uses randomness in a brilliant way and works pretty well in practice (87% of optimal solution in worst case but typically more like 95%). Also, maxcut is not that difficult on planar/euclidean graph layouts as you can lump clusters of neighboring nodes together and just assume that they belong to the same side of the cut. You can then bruteforce the solution for the (much fewer) clusters. The result can be made arbitrarily efficient in polynomial time (though it takes longer to get better solutions as you need more small clusters).
@brendanmoore8159
@brendanmoore8159 Месяц назад
I must admit, one of my favorite things about your videos are the amazingly dry jokes.
@beckywaytoomuch
@beckywaytoomuch Месяц назад
"That's amazing!" I agree. 08:42
@Substance242
@Substance242 Месяц назад
Yep, I was also perplexed when started working with radio signals, that you can increase signal/noise ratio (SNR) by ADDING noise. :-) (not always with any signal and any noise)
@Bob-1802
@Bob-1802 Месяц назад
And adding many amplifiers in parallel *decreases* the output noise.
@sabinrawr
@sabinrawr Месяц назад
I have long believe that two technologies are the near future of superpowered computing: analog chips and probabilistic computing. I think I saw the analog chips on a Veritasium video or another similar channel. Really fascinating stuff. In a way, I am comforted by the idea of imperfect computing. Most Skynet scenarios rely on the machines being smarter or somehow "more perfect" than human minds, therefore the machines know what's in our own best interests better than we do. I'm a world of imperfect computing, that doesn't happen. Instead, the machines aren't any more "perfect" than their human constructors, they're just faster. This sort of dynamic could foster a cooperative environment where humans and machines work together for the betterment of everyone. Idealistic and naive, probably, but it sounds nice anyway.
@walterblanc9708
@walterblanc9708 Месяц назад
I trust the "conventional computer" used in the annealing comparison was a bit more modern than the one shown ;)
@sir_no_name1478
@sir_no_name1478 Месяц назад
Yeah we have also chips for grafic, ai accelerators, fpgas etc. It gets more specialized.
@grindupBaker
@grindupBaker Месяц назад
This is fine because we can just wear ear plugs all our life (I have to for bicycling anyway). Anything for the machines (I'm just sucking up to them in case they take over, they'll need whipmasters). In 1966 one of our programs (not mine) for seismic oil exploration blew a gasket whenever a "dead trace" (all 0s recorded) happened & printed "Floating Point Underflow - 100% White Noise Added" (it was dividing by zero) repeatedly (Jack Nicholson Shining all work and no play) as fast as the huge IBM line printer could run the 11x17 continuous paper through & the operators scrambled to kill it before it had wasted a box of printer paper. I used pseudorandom rectangular deviates sequences for randomizing with the seed based on the obvious date and time including how thousandths of seconds had passed in the second when the CPU randomly was at seed selection. I used it for iterative process minimum RMS error fit geophone line calculation seismic oil exploration in ~1970, for computer simulation modeling in 1973 and 2002, and for controlling 5 elevators to answer the calls fast in KOIN Centre, Columbia & Clay, Portland, Oregon in 1990 (upgrade to state-of-the-art Prestige Building security & monitoring system I wrote in 1984-85). Prototype computer control of elevators. Building Engineer said it worked real good, fast service. Torn out soon later because technology advanced fast, computers cheapened since our IBM PCs (new computers they invented, even smaller than 2 wardrobes). I tried devising Regular Logic for 5 days to assign elevators faultlessly, wasted 50 hours of frustration and made an Executive Decision to switch to Fuzzy Logic, random numbers generated to point into a Table of values statistically corresponding to the required ratios so that any one pick was random unpredictable but large quantities of picks were guaranteed to group in the required ratios, the Magic of Large Statistics averaging out, similar to quantum mechanics on a simpler level. I did something similar but less in 1975 on a Fairchild F8 with PROM or EPROM, I added closed-loop-feedback to an open-loop elevator, improved service.
@T1Oracle
@T1Oracle Месяц назад
As a software engineer, my primary use for randomness is security. Outside of that, I usually want pseudorandomness. Usually for things that are intended to be entertaining.
@aquahood
@aquahood Месяц назад
The best encryption is that which you can not differentiate from randomness or noise.
@giannismentz3570
@giannismentz3570 Месяц назад
What do you mean? Noise is random.
@azi_and_razi
@azi_and_razi Месяц назад
​@@giannismentz3570 Yeah, noise, true randomness, same thing. And yes, the best encyption is unbreakable (without the key). For example One Time Pad. Generate secret key (truly random) with the same length as message you want to send, distribute it securely to final receivers, XOR your message with that key, destroy original message. Now result of XORing is also truly random and without the key is useless. But with the secret key you can retriever the message by XORing it with scrambled message. In other words you encode original message in difference between two sequences of random numbers. So message become non local in some sense ;)
@victotronics
@victotronics Месяц назад
Interesting video. With you initial mention of random I thought this was going to be about the recent Turing award. Is that still coming? I could use a clear explanation.
@cbnewham5633
@cbnewham5633 Месяц назад
Hardware random number generators have been available for longer than 10 years! One of the early 1980s home computers (was it Atari or Texas Instruments?) had a random number generator that used electrical noise - it was marketed as being the only PC that had a true RN generator bult in and available from BASIC.
@LionKimbro
@LionKimbro Месяц назад
9:55 -- this is the premise behind "reconfigurable computing"
@rrmackay
@rrmackay Месяц назад
I remember years ago we set up a microphone in the server room and fed its input to the random number generator in the OS to give it truly random noise root.
@schmetterling4477
@schmetterling4477 Месяц назад
Did it change anything about the result of what you were doing? Probably not, right?
@rrmackay
@rrmackay Месяц назад
@@schmetterling4477 It did produce a more random number, especially at that time
@schmetterling4477
@schmetterling4477 Месяц назад
@@rrmackay Yes, but did that change anything about the result of what you were doing with that random number?
@HughChing
@HughChing Месяц назад
My experience is that Monte Carlo and ruining frequency in encryption need random numbers. However, being the heir of fuzzy logic and the founder of post-science fuzzy logic, I believe that fuzzy convergence will avoid dead loop in exact convergence scheme. One of the way to produce fuzziness is random numbers. I also speculate that nothing can exist if it does not compute, and fuzzy logic should be the foundation of knowledge with random number playing a vaulted role in knowledge. The recent Turing Award is given for randomness; I just hope that the recipient knows fuzzy logic, since my nomination on fuzzy logic, robot touch, and complete automation have all been rejected.
@danielbarreiro8228
@danielbarreiro8228 Месяц назад
Lava lamps as a source of randomness: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1cUUfMeOijg.html
@punkbutcher5321
@punkbutcher5321 Месяц назад
Simplest / most readily available source of hardware noise: your soundcard! Just use the an ADC with nothing hooked up and you get hardware random noise. Pesky problem: the samples tend to be correlated, 50Hz and such.
@tuskiomisham
@tuskiomisham Месяц назад
Sabine doing a video in my wheelhouse? can't wait
@maxheadrom3088
@maxheadrom3088 Месяц назад
6:00 so instead of calculating for a large number of points the calculation is done on fewer points but randomly spread? Thanks!
@RichardGoldwaterMD
@RichardGoldwaterMD Месяц назад
Digital audio sounded awful until dithering was added. It took the sharp edges off the digits, I suppose. But isn’t a preexisting optimal state Teleological? What determines such a state?
@me-ro8yk
@me-ro8yk Месяц назад
That chatgpt burn was hilarious.
@JouMxyzptlk
@JouMxyzptlk Месяц назад
The annealing chip sounds like a solution for a problem yet to be discovered :D. Just like quantum computing.
@Snorre12341234
@Snorre12341234 Месяц назад
At first I thought it was also about this video: Is the Future of Linear Algebra... Random This is also an interesting video on the subject.
@TheEulerID
@TheEulerID Месяц назад
There is a government run lottery system in the UK called Premium Bonds, and the device at the core of that, ERNIE, for Electronic Random Number Indicating equipment had a true hardware random number generator at its core, and that was devised back in 1957, by a certain Tommy Flowers. Who is he you may ask? Well, he just happened to be the designer and builder of the top secret Colossus machine at Bletchley Park, the first fully electronic, programmable (albeit not Turing complete) computer, which automated the cracking of encoded messages using the Nazi Lorenz machine (a completely different type of machine to the Enigma one, using a different cryptographic machine. In any event, the idea that hardware random number generators have only been used for about 10 years is not the case. They have been used for at least 67 years. ERNIE 1 used the signal noise from neon tubes, was the size of a van and produced 2,000 random winners an hour. The latest incarnation, ERNIE 5, uses quantum effects to generate numbers and produces 3 million winning numbers in just 12 minutes.
@aquahood
@aquahood Месяц назад
What exactly is a Quantum random number generator on a chip? The only thing that I can think of this truly quantum would be radioactive decay or Quantum or cosmic rays?
@SabineHossenfelder
@SabineHossenfelder Месяц назад
Anything that involves tunneling
@aniksamiurrahman6365
@aniksamiurrahman6365 Месяц назад
How can I get some reading material on it? btw, I've heard about annealing and Ising model.
@hanslepoeter5167
@hanslepoeter5167 Месяц назад
Right. I got to admit did not understand many things, and I design hardware and embedded software for a living. In general, noise is a pain for electronic circuits and we want to avoid it, just like the quantum computer. However, sometimes noise or randomness is needed : - when doing analog to digital conversion and we are averaging the output. Without noise, we could average all we want and get the same result, with noise we can average and increase resolution. This is very commonly done. - For programming games. If we want the next move of our opponents to be unexpected, it better be random. - For testing noise canceling algorithms. Hard to test those without noise. - For certain AI algorithms. If an AI never tries a random thing when learning, how is it to learn something new. As for random number generation in a computer, a common source used is the program code in a computer program itself. These are instructions and operand codes and if you just retrieve those from memory, it is more or less random. Another source is human input. The moment a human pushes a button on a keyboard is pretty random. When a high resolution timer is present it is a good source of randomness.
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