How (Not) To Be A "Nice Guy" 

I tend to say that nobody is obligated to go with you on a date, which is why it's called a "date" and not a "summons."

My definition is: a "Nice guy" is a guy that is nice, until they get a *no*"

Wow...that might be the nicest answer to this question ever.

I would be insulted if someone called me a “nice guy”, I take great prode in being a “good boy”.

Speaking as a male, I can say this is a great video. I once had to explain to a guy who was complaining to me that no girls dated him because he was 'too nice' that his first problem was that he was blaming the other person for not wanting to date him. Different people are attracted to different things, and at the point people are not attracted to me, I feel I need to ask myself (not them) three things: 1 - what is about 'me' they do not find attractive (blaming others for how they feel about my behaviour is a good place to start) 2 - is this point something I would generally find unattractive in a partner if it were the other way round (as opposed to just a general incompatibility issue) 3 - Would I feel I am a generally better person if I changed this behaviour Another issue with the 'nice guys' is that they often also frame their interactions with women through a mindset of male-to-female interaction, rather than a person-to-person interaction. This is harmful in three ways: 1 - it means the 'nice' things they do are often framed as I am doing this because you are a women, not because of who you are. For example, 'I am paying for your drink because you are a girl I find attractive' rather than because 'you are a nice person, who I wish to do a nice thing for'. This leads them to often appear entitled and also makes their niceties appear fake. 2 - it leads them to treat women in a strict and rigid way that reduces that person's sense of individuality, such as 'you are a girl, so I must tell you these three 'impressive' things about myself' rather than 'you are a person who likes cooking, here is a funny story I happen to know about cooking'. 3 - It often makes them forget that this interaction is between two individuals, and therefore both individuals need to be comfortable with how that relationship is framed. If one of the people in the interaction is not willing to have the interaction framed in a certain way, then the other party either needs to respect that and work with the other party to frame the interaction in a way which is right for both parties, or accept that this interaction is not positive for either party because both want different things. If these 'nice guys' truly care about the other person, they will not just want to date that person to make themselves happy, but also they will want their interactions with that person to make the other person happy, and part of making other people happy is respecting their decisions on how that interaction is framed. Or put simply, they need to swallow their ego, and respect the other party's decision not to date them. Respect, it is important!

Don't try to be the person you think she wants you to be. Be the best version of you. Your friends like you because of who you are. A girlfriend is, in general, another friend. If you don't mesh as friends, then you won't last as a couple.

Me: gives a ball of wool to my cat Jill Bearup: gifts shouldn't have strings /s

The problem with the "nice guy" mentality is that being nice isn't enough to sustain a long term romantic relationship or even a friendship. Being nice is not the same as being kind, interesting, emotionally available or compatible. It's a jumping off point, not an identity.

This is a complicated topic, and I feel an underappreciated element is how our culture teaches boys / men that the woman they're interested in WILL take an interest in them, and all they have to do is persist. Think of "The Office" (especially the American version), where Whatshisname just sort of hovers around Whatshername until she finally falls for him. If we do that in show after show and movie after movie, I really can't blame poorly-socialized guys for expecting that's how things will work out. Now, at such point as guys learn the hard way that life isn't like TV, they can react a couple ways: they can figure out the right way to be on their own, or they can turn bitter, or they can turn manipulative, or they can keep doing what they've been taught and marinate in frustration. Whichever way a given guy turns out, I think we could eliminate at least some of the discomfort for all parties by not teaching guys wrong in the first place.

I'm sure it's more complex than this, but my feeling is that 'nice guys' can often misunderstand what it means to be attractive. Probably not helped by the fact that many of us have been raised on morality tales of 'it's what's inside that counts' and rom coms where nerdy guys get the attractive popular girls for no other reason than basic human decency which the attractive popular guys lack. Which leaves aside the fact that A) There do in fact exist basically decent attractive popular guys, B) The girls in these stories are meant to be better for the reason that they are attracted to that kind of thing and that's what makes the match OK and C) these are works of fiction that often massively simplify the human condition for the sake of a manageable run time, not a guide on dating. My personal feeling is we need more stories that challenge guys to push themselves - not in a toxic masculinity 'compete with everyone to prove yourself superior' but in a 'the best thing you can do for other people and yourself is to challenge yourself and grow into the sort of person that people consider attractive'. Obviously, that's not easy given how these can be read as 'let other people dictate your personality by turning into the sort of person they want you to be', but I think more films and stories that acknowledge a middle ground between the two extremes would be nice and really beneficial to guys who feel completely helpless when it comes to understanding attraction. Obviously these aren't excuses for this type of behaviour, but the more I hear things from 'nice guys' the more I'm convinced a good chunk of them suffer from being completely clueless about what what people 'should' be attracted to - as in, they don't get that it's perfectly acceptable to be attracted to any number of things, provided they aren't actually harmful. And the best cure for that cluelessness would be to educate them. Anyway those are my ramblings on the subject - great video, as per usual, loved your insight into this and the stuff about being someone who DOES things that you find exciting is a better answer to attracting people than being simply 'nice'. Hope it's helpful to the people that need to read it (and gave me a bit to think about as well).

Speaking as a former nice guy who realized many of these things a long time ago (and am all the better for it), very well done. Short, sweet, to the point, and full of language that's easy to understand with a tone that's firm but not condescending. Great video! :)

I like your answer at 3:09 where you're like 'Learn to like yourself before you'd expect anyone else to do the same'. I like that. Thank you.

The most salient point here is "be interesting" - a caveat to this fact is, "be interesting" in context to the person you're speaking to, if you like science fiction and/or sword fighting for example, then perhaps talking to a person who clearly doesn't find those subjects interesting is your first clue as to whether or not you will be able to hold their attention, A good way to ask someone out, after initial introductions, is to have an event or activity you find fun and interesting and simply invite the other person along, don't make it strictly about asking them out to date and sex and all that other stuff, let that happen naturally once a mutual feeling has grown in you both, for example; "Oh by the way, I am going to X thing this Saturday, would you like to come too?" (gauge their reaction, facial expression, body language etc.) then move forward or move on. Always maintain your internal sense of dignity and remember they have theirs. Don't beat yourself up, social interaction is learned over time through experience.

The Nice Guy: a toxic stew of self-pity and entitlement.

I think this goes back to basic empathy. Would you, yourself, be ok with someone demanding a reciprocal love when you don't feel that way towards them simply because they have either made displays of affection or spent time fantasizing about you as a love interest? Always take time to put yourself in the other persons shoes. You may be surprised at how petty and mean spirited your demands seem after such an exercise.

I like do think there is a difference between "nice" guys and kind/good guys. That's how I like to explain it.

I always hate it when a guy does something nice for me and then expects me to go on a date with them or do something... sexual. When you give a gift to someone, there are no strings attached, otherwise it isn't a gift, it's a trap. If you ask if you buy me a smoothie, I will kiss you, I will say no and it's even worse when they DON'T ask because now they are basically trying to force you to do something. People aren't treasure chests where if you pick the lock, you get something inside. We're living, and we have just a right to live and have freedom to make our own decisions as you do, you shouldn't force us. That's the very mini form of slavery. And to prevent people from getting mad at me in the comments from that last sentence, I will point out that I am saying it's a "very mini form", not that it's nearly as traumatic and damaging as actual slavery. But it's a similar concept to what the enslavers and the "nice guys" thinking are, on a much smaller scale. And no, "nice guys" are not just as bad as literal slave drivers. Just wanted to clear that up, thank you.

“I know a trick to make a man’s colors show. If he sees something he wants… tell him no.” -The Crane Wives Also: “You would think that I’m so lucky- that I have so many things. I’m realizing that every present comes with strings!” -Barbie: Princess and the Popper

I came so close to falling into the "nice guy" trap. Bought into all the primers for it, the whole "I'm a nice guy why isn't anyone interested in me" thing, etc. But I never actually hit the point of being bitter about it or feeling like I was entitled to those things. I was just kinda sad and confused and wasn't sure what I was doing wrong. I guess depression is good for something after all lol.

Went into this video interested that my sword fights RU-vidr was giving dating advice, got through most of this video going "oh well this isn't all that relevant to me but I may as well watch it anyway in case some part of it is," then unexpectedly got just great life advice snuck in the middle there. Thank you Jill! The "heck yes!" principle is something I sorely need in my life.

"Be interesting" You are really tying my hands.

I think I used to be part of the nice guy group, so I'll chime in with this conversation from the perspective of a "nice guy". I wanted to be in a romantic relationship, and I wasn't, and I knew many people that were, and I couldn't understand what the difference between us was. many of us had similar hobbies, similar senses of humor, and were generally good friends constantly affecting each other, so it seemed strange that after years of slowly learning from each other I hadn't become as good as them at dating. And I think the key difference was "game". the idea that dating isn't just two people comparing personalities, and checking if their personalities are compatible, but some game with unknown rules and common strategies, which I wasn't aware of. And it bothered me because the game seemed completely pointless, like the feathers of a peacock, they lead to successful copulation even though they have no actual value. being good at the game didn't signify anything important about your personality, and most people let go of the game and all of its pretenses the minute they were actually in a long term relationship. Why was I being judged on this measure which had no impact on the relationship, or who I was as a person? looking back, I don't think this part was particularly terrible, only the part afterward, where I blamed women, without realizing no one can control who they are or aren't attracted to, and even if they could, women can date anyone based on whatever preferences they prefer, and I have no reason to judge them, it's their love life. the problem isn't the statement "women date douchebags instead of nice guys" because that's just a statement, and regardless of if it's true or false (from my experience false), it doesn't blame anyone. the problem is the implication that women are evil or stupid for doing this, and nice guys need to teach women how to be attracted to the right people, so they'll have better lives, which is super condescending. It's ok to be sad that people won't date you, or that people don't see qualities that you really value in yourself; It's not ok to then hate those people, or scream at them that they're all bitches and whores, just because it hurts you that they don't think you're attractive.

"If it's not a heck yes, it's a no" is a great way to live, I read something along those lines last year and it made me think of things I did that I wasn't comfortable with because it was expected, and the mess that resulted.

I'm going to try out this "whatever I do gives me a heck yes feeling" thing. If I like it, I'll come back and comment that I did unless the unexpected happens. Wish me luck.

looks like the same person writing same question and she handled it really really well, the politest "go away" I ever seen.

I think the frustration around this comes from faulty or misread expectations. Two easy fixes. Ask directly if you wanna know your romantic status with someone,and don't let wishful thinking cloud your perception. A third important point is that a girl's initial level of interest is likely to be pretty constant,not go through a sudden increase because you learned Italian. The answers are there,let yourself see them. Was she dancing with someone else at the club? Does she not return phone calls? Do you call way too much? Never hold a grudge,but never pine.

I used to hear people complain about "Nice Guys", then I said that I was a nice guy and that I didn't understand what was wrong with that. I didn't know that was a term to describe this disappointing and entitled mess of a person, and I was really embarrassed when someone finally took the time to explain it to me. I just put a lot of effort into being respectful and supportive of the people who were circumstantially forced to exist alongside me, but this "Nice Guy" is everything wrong with the modern day male. 'Course, I stopped trying to ask girls out entirely and just try to be a good friend, so I guess it's a moot point

As a former "nice guy", I can say this is correct. Everyone should be spending time the way they actually enjoy and learn to accept themselves as who they are. This helps you become more confident and you start to notice that some people grow interested in you, as long as you treat them with respect. If you start blaming other people, it's a tough and sad road.

I could have fallen into the "nice guy" rut. In my late teenage years I realized that if I wanted to meet ladies, I needed 1) to do the sorts of things that ladies enjoyed doing, and 2) to be be interesting enough to warrant any given woman's attention. The second plays directly into the first. Being smart or clever, having good prospects or good income, even having well-developed hobbies doesn't mean that one is a good prospect if one isn't enjoyable to be around. One can insufferable even if one is strong financially or with making sound decisions. Changes to appeal may not mean completely changing who one is or falling into the sorts of behavior like the fictional Howard Wolowitz in the early seasons of _The Big Bang Theory_ tried, but it usually means some kind of growth of personal character, and usually means expanding one's interests outside of things that appeal to only a very, very limited subset. And part of the irony of it is that I married the sort of mythical unicorn of a woman who's incredibly smart, skilled, capable, I mean she has a bachelor's degree from MIT in mechanical engineering and works on NASA JPL programs for chrisssake, *and we met at a ballroom dance.* Like me, she sought to widen the sort of circles she operated in too.

Translation of the asks: "I Other the people I want to exchange fluids with, and when I put the Kindness coins in, the Sex doesn't drop out." Speaking as a guy here, those Asks create a rather unfortunate mental picture. He's viewing the person as a machine, he has no idea how the "machine" works, and he's a few wrong button presses away from trying shaking and hitting to get what he wants, or declaring that like claw machines the whole thing is a scam (because he hasn't figured out how to work those, either.) He's the dude you never let borrow anything because you know he's going to break or lose it. As that guy's friend, the answer would be "No." "No what?" "No, bro. We're going to get you a hobby." "I have a -" And then point the dude here so he can see what he needs. Something active, out, where he can develop mastery and thus confidence, and he can develop skill interacting with people in a safe environment in a collaborative and non-transactional way.

Do things that would make you say " heck yes ", what a nice idea, gonna do that now.

This is still one of my favourite videos. It's kind, concise, unapologetically fair, and doesn't get sidetracked by whataboutery.

“Learn to like yourself...” is great advice for people who find themselves always dating people who treat them like shit because they’re not happy with themselves and are afraid to be alone. When you’re happy with yourself, a partner is a bonus, not a necessity, so the desperation fades, and you can pass over the assholes who sometimes say nice things to let better partners get a chance to know you.

As a guy who sincerely tries to be nice I got a little hung up on the terminology, and despite being very unpopular with girls in high school I have managed to be married to the world's best woman for over 30 years and going strong. All I did to go from the nice guy who had 0 dates in 4 yrs of high school to being the happiest guy I know was stand by my morals, treat all women with respect, try to be financially sound as I am old fashioned enough to want to be a good provider and be patient to find a woman who appreciated my strengths and could be gracious to my weaknesses, I know she has made me better and I have faith that I have done the same, I am and will likely always be a not overly attractive farmer who is so boring that the thought of going on vacation repulses me because I enjoy my work so much. Don't know if this will help anyone or if I am missing the point entirely but there's my life in a nutshell (Psalms 37:4)

I was told over and over as a kid and a teen (by a lot of well meaning women) that I should be Nice. It never got me anywhere. What Is effective is being a Good guy, someone good at things. And polite, a gentleman, certainly. It's actually much easier to be a gentleman when you have the self confidence that comes from knowing that you are good at things, that you bring value. That's what we need to teach boys and young men, how to be Good at things, and then how to draw people towards you by being kind and gentle with your power.

Every 'nice guy' I've known has at some point told me that he's a nice guy and if you have to tell people you're nice, you're probably not.

this might not be one of your most viewed videos, but gosh darn it's an important one!

I dearly love the way you state the problem and possible solutions! You are BRILLIANT ❣

There is a second subset of the "nice guy" group - the guy who complains that no woman wants him, but if anyone points out there are women who might want to date him he rejects them all. I think this comes from the fact that the sort of "nice guy" we're talking about doesn't want to admit that he doesn't actually want a girl who is also "nice" even by his own standards. Point out to this seemingly normal guy that there's a seemingly normal woman who might want to get to know him and suddenly the tune changes. Somehow they want to still be seen as "nice" while insisting that they should settle for nothing less than their idea of perfection. Ask that guy to push himself to be better (in better shape, better job, etc) and suddenly they switch right back to the idea that life isn't fair to the average man. It's almost amusing to see the flip flopping.

Been there, been that nice guy. My lessons: - Be nice, even if karma doesn’t exist, you don’t need to be a c**t. - Karma doesn’t exist as noted above. Just being nice does not mean that the universe owes you something or someone. The universe doesn’t owe you s**t. Also the universe does not care much about you, so don’t fear what others think about you: they probably don’t think anything special to start with. Go out and dance if you are an introvert. Nobody will think anything more or less of you. Really, nobody cares so don’t be scared how other people view you and think of you - they don’t! - STOP OVERTHINKING EVERYTHING!!! - If you want to ask someone on a date, do it. If you get turned down, it’s not the end of the world and the whole universe won’t point and laugh. Lighten up. Somehow caring less is actually caring more. - Widen your horizons. See more people. Don’t focus on someone who seems perfect for you: they probably are not and there are 7 billion other people in the world - your co-worker you work 10 hours a day with probably isn’t the one. - Lend a listening ear to people but don’t get too focussed in helping out - beware of transference where you end up projecting your feeling on the person you are listening to or running the risk of misaligned expectations. - You can’t help everyone. And nobody owes you anything for helping. - If you are feeling depressed in any way by your current life situation, go and talk to a professional: it could literally change your life for the better. Yep I’m still an introvert and I’d love karma to work, but I don’t care any more. I can be nice, if I want to help out for any reasons, I’ll do it because I like doing so, and I don’t care what others think about me, and it’s been a huge weight off my shoulders. Also, some pointers to help me understand why I was acting the way I was was eye opening and has helped me turn my life around. Your personal mileage may vary. Peace out everyone!

you won me over after "unrequited love happens to everyone"

I will expand on this a little to say that part of why some people end up with this "nice guy" complex and being upset that women aren't interested in them is that they see some of the women they are interested in dating truly horrifically bad men on a regular basis. Men who cheat, men who are racist, men who are prone to anger, men who bully others (usually other men) etc. What these "nice guys" need to realize, though, is that the women they are so pursuing who are so enamored with mean guys are probably mean girls themselves. Even if they don't seem like it, deep down they probably are just as rotten as the rotten guys they are dating. Nice guys, if you truly are nice, know that women who are interested in cruel men will probably not be kind to you if you do somehow manage to date them. Hold out for a true nice girl.

Jill, this is like the millionth comment so you'll probably never see it, but I totally love your videos. And I agree about the main points of the video, but I feel like people are missing one of the main reasons why people develop this kind of "nice guy" complex. Before I make my points, I concede that the "nice guy" thing is an unhelpful defense mechanism. That's especially true when a guy acts as though (being a "nice guy") he is a gift from God. But I have more complex feelings about this, having married a guy (possibly my husband has Asperger's) who was a bit awkward and could never land a date because he wasn't sauve. He came across as creepy. We as women label men as creepy all the time without thinking about whether that label is truly justified. I once went to country dances every week. My friends pointed out to me the "creepy guy." I asked why he was creepy. The answer: "he just is." "He just is." In other words, we feel uncomfortable around him, therefore he must be a creeper. Based on no words. Based on no groping attempts. No nothing. Just mannerisms, nothing else. That guy is doomed before he has even begun. For what could be no reason--a too-wide smile, wearing sandals with socks, or having a funny laugh. My husband lived his entire dating life seeing guys who he felt like were absolute idiots and jerks date the girls he liked. He couldn't even get one date with those girls because what they said they wanted, "a good guy" was (as my husband saw it) not actually what they wanted. They wanted "a smooth guy," and it's not always the same thing. Sometimes it is, for sure. Not always though. I wanted a smooth guy, I admit it. But I also wanted an honest guy, and partially because he wasn't the smooth guy, he was the honest guy. After watching somebody "smoother" continually waltz in and take the girls they like, can you blame guys for developing a bit of complex? Does it make them unattractive to have this "nice guy" issue going? Yes. Do I understand it? I kind of do. Why should some guys have to give themselves a complete overhaul to even be glanced at? Assuming that those behaviors are simple or easy enough to change that it can be done? What if a guy has a limp? A congenital defect of some kind? A speech problem? And he can't get a date no matter how hard he tries to give himself a guy makeover? I know, for my husband, he tried getting advice but the advice never worked. He just couldn't carry it off. It isn't always as easy as just going out and buying a new suit, you know. Sometimes you're just different, and it hurts. You just can't seem to "mesh" well although you're a decent enough person. And that's the fact of the matter. The nice guy complex is just a way to cover up the more difficult question, "Is something inherently wrong with me? Why can't I receive the love and attention that I so badly want from other people?" Sorry for the essay. It's over.

Oh god, I used to be one of those a long time ago. Glad I had the right people around me to slowly but surely lift me up from "niceguyness" o_o

Self-proclaimed nice guys are usually the opposite of nice. They're the ones who claim all women want jerks, while they personally disprove that claim.

I definitely used to think this sort of thing when I was 14-15ish and what I find really funny looking back was I would get annoyed that particular women wouldn't go out with me despite the fact I now know I would've hated being in a relationship with these women because we had nothing in common! I guess my advice to "nice guys" is maybe the reason you have no success dating is because you're going after women who you find physically attractive but you have nothing in common with.

Cue Ryan Higa's "Nice Guys finish last that's why I treat you like trash. It's not really what I want to do"

i just found your channel thanks to your derry girls video and now i'm binging through your videos and... i really really like what you do and how you think, you're really awesome and thanks for your work!

I’m listening to your words,but I’m watching those coloured bars in the background.

How not to be a nice guy/girl. Ahem... Do (or don't do) nice things without the anticipation of direct reciprocation, especially romantic reciprocation. It's kind of that simple. Oh, incidentally, if you are a nice guy/girl, and get taken advantage of, very few people will be sympathetic.

Thank you for that explanation. It's given me food for thought.

You’re always wonderfully smart and funny, but this is even better than usual. Ty so much. It’s always lovely to come to your channel after a ridiculous day.

The saying "Hope springs enternal" comes to mind. I think a lot of "nice" guys get stuck in the hope trap. If I'm just a good enough friend.. If I wait for the right time...For myself as in most things in life be direct with your intentions and be willing to walk away. If your intention for being with a woman is because you are romantically interested let her know at the start. A woman is in no way required to reciprocate. On the flip side a guy is not a "bad" guy if he stops seeing her after she indicates she's not interested. There is inclination to say if all the guy is interested in is a romantic relationship and isn't willing to be friends he is a "bad" guy. I think this where sometimes "nice" guys get trapped. They don't wan't to look shallow or having a one track mind for severing contact after she as her right expresses disinterest. On the flip side woman need to also be straightforward about how they feel if a man express romantic feelings and not think less of him if he walks away if she doesn't reciprocate the feelings. Rejection is hard and it is hard to tell someone something you know will hurt them but it is the most emotionally mature thing you can do.

"People like and are attracted to interesting persons." Well, yes maybe, but the vast majority of people are ordinary and not very interesting and they still can find partners. So, a lot of people are also attracted to not especially interesting persons.

No worries Jill. Anon recently met Q and they are getting on fabulously.

Best advice I've seen I wish I found this years ago. I've had alot of success when I realized I had to just work on my social skills and be forward with my intentions. I agree that hobbies are so important. I quite gaming and to get more into boxing, punk music and, rock climbing as well as left leaning politics...my dating has thanked me for it!

How did "nice guy" come to have this definition? Seems a bit messed up to me.

If I may...I am in no way a professional at dating but i have suffered from the "nice guy" label and when a friend pointed it out i expressed I am NOT nice i am kind there is a HUGE difference. when you become the "kind guy" at least you stand for something you have a set of boundaries for yourself and others...Thank you Dad

From years later..Very nice (heh) PSA, well done!

I love what you do and what you say! Kindness is the key. We're losing the concept of being kind and decent and polite. Unfortunately my country, USA, is one of the worst offenders.

HECK YES! (I'm going to write that down and frame it. Thanks)

Well done, Jill. You got through that entire video without saying any of the words I was thinking about your persistent correspondent. I have Asperger's, and one of the ways it affects me is that I have difficulty with the nuances of context-dependent rules. And even I know that I'm not entitled to anything from another person. Unless it involves a contract. I don't even know if you'll read the whole of this comment.

I wish I could like this video more than once. SOLID advice, great observations!

Great words of wisdom, Jill. I’ve had the “Nice guy” brand seared into me for years. It used to get me down because I though, “hey, I’m a good person, I’m mildly attractive and interesting to at least a small segment of the female population, I LIKE ME, so why is it so hard to get a girlfriend?” Well, that’s partially the wrong question. The missing piece of the question is, why is it so hard to get the girlfriend I want? I’m sure that I or any guy could find someone willing to date us easily. However, since we are attracted to certain kinds of people much more than others (sorry, our relationship with our parents tends to weigh heavy on this, it’s just the way it is), it is often the case that the kind of woman you like may not be the right kind of woman for you and your temperament. Yes, I’m talking self sabotage, Mr. Nice guy. So, if you are constantly Friend-Zoned by the women you like, expand your horizons and try dating women who are different then what your normally drawn too. Or, this works for me (dating women your not initially attracted to does have its pitfalls because you could end up never really falling for them), try embracing the Friend-Zone. Women do love nice guys, they just don’t want to be in a romantic relationship with them, so if a woman who Friend-Zoned you truly has genuine love for you as a friend, and you really like her, try valuing the platonic friendship and you may be in for an incredible and rewarding relationship.

Having been both rejected and not and having been rejected for what seems like being “the nice guy” I can only say where some of that attitude comes from. Not from a sense of entitlement. I had been rejected by women for clearly better men than me. But when you see somebody reject you for somebody who seems to treat the person you were interested in like dirt yet you were not good enough. That is when you find yourself feeling/thinking that way. Like most thing none of it is ever quite so simple as “ be interesting” or “be confident” or “be friends first” or any of the rest.

the "OG-nice guy" is "you are nice, but..."-guy brutally oversimpified it´s what you get for insulting him by trying to prevent "hurting his feelings"

I can't understand the "nice guy" sense of entitlement, to the point that, before I read their own accounts of what they think they deserve, I was actually a little insulted by what people said about nice guys, not realizing that they weren't talking about someone like me who just tries not to be a jerk. (To be fair, I don't always succeed. Most people are jerks in some way; I happen to be an arrogant-know-it-all jerk, which is particularly annoying, but also pretty much harmless, which is why I don't try all that hard to avoid it.) But, yeah, I hope anon learns how to be a nice guy instead of a "nice guy," because a scary amount of sexual assaults are apparently committed by "nice guys," from some of what I've read. (It's all pretty anecdotal, but then again any sexual assault is too much.)

Can we just take a sec, and point out the stellar background editing... Great video!

It can be especially tricky if you were poorly socialized at a younger age for any number of reasons. There are ways I behaved when I went off to college that, looking back now, I kick myself for, for instance. But the cool thing is . . . you can learn from those mistakes . . . so you can kick yourself!

That was informative. And a little scary that you had to make a video because of all these emails.

Oh wow that "heck yes" idea is fantastic! I'm implementing it right away!! I'm a married woman so not in relation to "Nice Guy" issues...just in relation to being a happier and more interesting person!

Take a no as a no...only... for some people it's always a no and never ever a yes. And with that not even a chance of a yes and the best and closest to have ever had was a yes which was a lie. So excuse me to have expectations for not being an asshole at all. And then you have people who are utterly surprised when people snap after decades like that. Expect fairness, expect equal chance....nope you should not expect because you're entitled then and that's not good. And this is mostly said by people have had a yes multiple times.

To edchew niceness is simply inviting destructive behavior.

Ok, is no one going to talk about the impeccable green screen editing Jill has going on here?? Even around her EARINGS it's crisp and clear!!

Ugh, Nice Guys. Being turned down/seen only as a friend when you have other affections for that person sucks. Absolutely can suck. But you know what sucks more? Losing that person as a friend because you feel entitled due to "time put in" or whatever (FRIENDSHIP AND DATING IS NOT A JOB) and going on to treat them like crap. Sometimes if you get turned down and your heart gets broken, you'll need a little distance for awhile, depending...but remember why you liked this person in the first place. Because they're probably awesome. And they might think you're awesome too. And...isn't that kind of the awesome part of friendship in the first place?

It's a weird situation when nice guys are so mono-sided that you can't tell whether the person enacting the character of the nice is a troll or a genuine nice guy...

"Gifts shouldn't come with strings" - Jill Bearup, last place present wrapping championship contestant 2019, 2020, 2021. 😁🎁

And here I am, watching this at a couple of minutes to 1:30 AM, because for some reason the algorithm recommended this to me. And, while I haven't learned anything new, I've enjoyed your take on this a lot. Heck yes!

For the genuinely nice guy who truly feels thst he us always finishing last remember these points: 1. By your reasoning, the nice girls are also finishing last. 2. To come ladt means you've run the whole race - a lot of people aren't even 8n the race at sll , or they drop out early because it is too hard. 3. When you do finally meet that special someone, wouldnt you prefer someone who was willing to stick around until the end?

Some food for thought, this is gonna be a long one: As easy as it may be to mock these people, we have to acknowledge that members among both sexes are to blame - we can't go "men bad, women good" or vice-versa. The notions that "women like jerks" or that "a man must pursue a woman, even after she rejects him, in hopes of winning her over through sheer perseverance"...didn't pop out of thin air and they weren't just thought up by a man one day as a fantasy of some kind. Some women have greatly attributed to these false notions - not just in fiction, but in real life. I'll start with the former: Just like there are men who watch movies where the guy chases after a girl who's clearly not interested in him and has said "No" to him more than once, by the end of the film, he's impressed her with his decency and now all of the sudden, she wants him, there are women who watch movies where a woman chases after a male who's obviously a toxic, manipulative person (evil wouldn't not be too strong of a term to describe him) and through the "power of love", he becomes a decent fella who loves and cherishes her with all his heart, for "saving him from himself". I've seen this happen - I've been on the receiving end of it. Women, WAY OUT of my league, have been interested in me for a serious relationship, and I've legitimately asked myself "WHY?! Are you stupid, lady, what the actual FUСК do you think you've seen in me that makes you think I'm a worthy candidate for a potential partner?!" I'm not ugly, but I'm nothing to write home about in terms of looks, I'm definitely not what I'd define as a good person, I'm an absolute weirdo (my manners are something between those of an over-the-top video game villain and Mr. Bean's) whose hobbies, while I myself find them interesting, are often times considered more boring than collecting stamps, and to top it all off - I have health issues which are INCREDIBLY off-putting. But they want me. Why? Because they wanna FIX me, they want me to be their little "project". Why am I saying all of this? There are myths and false beliefs among not only men, but women too, and they have to be unlearned, because they turn into self-destructive behaviors. An entitled "nice guy" who says women are bad people for not wanting to sleep with him will wallow in frustration and self-pity, he'll jerk off to porn and vent his anger online, but the ones who acknowledge something about their behavior isn't working and intend on changing it, BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY, until it results in them "getting laid", are the ones who are more dangerous, in my opinion. I've seen this happen, too. You have a "nice guy" who wants to "win women over" by "being nice", he's unsuccessful, so he "changes the tactic". He gets pumped full of steroids, he attempts to grow a huge beard in order to hide his imperfections (not that I have anything against beards, it's just...they can be used as "the male equivalent of makeup"), he gets into hobbies that he perceives as being "interesting to women" (because just having A hobby doesn't cut it. I don't think there are thousands of women who get wet upon learning a guy collects stamps) - football, soccer, boxing, bodybuilding, jock stuff...and soon enough, you've got a bunch of immature bitсhеs who've watched/read too much 50 Shades and believe it's "a how-to guide on finding the love of your life" flocking to that absolute POSER, who more often than not labels himself an "alpha". Now he's got the life experience why "treating women like dirt wields results", and he's more than happy to share it with his fellow males. These are the kind of guys who say that ALL women are, deep down, attracted to men who abuse them and are backstabbing gold-diggers by nature. These are the "red pill preachers", those who view themselves as "The Morpheus-es inside the Matrix" who go around, saying "If you wanna get laid, be an asshole". And other men, especially some "nice guys", follow that advice. And sadly, often times, it does result in a spike of female attention towards them. Then there are the "nice guys", who, for whatever reason, DON'T follow that advice, so these women and men become the living, breathing example as to why their love/sex life is a mess, which results in misogynistic sentiments, built upon feelings of entitlement. I've never had that problem myself, because my parents were very strict and it was at a very young age that I was forced to learn that the world, believe it or not, does not revolve around me, and also because I am not interested in dating, as far as relationships are concerned. I like women, I like having sex with attractive women, and that's it. I get laid rarely, because even though, not to brag, there's a substantial number of women who are interested in me...what THEY want and what I want are two very different things, hence...we're incompatible, so I've become accustomed to a woman walking away because we want different things - she wants a relationship, I want sex, and my mother didn't raise no sociopath, so no, I'm not gonna lie to that I have feelings for her just to get in her pants. That's too low even for me. Few people want what I want - a "friends-with-benefits" sort of deal, but they do exist, and when I find them, and we're both interested in each other, nice stuff happens. That's the mentality I have - "there's always more people". Long story short, don't be entitled. If your interest, be it romantic or purely sexual, is unreciprocated, either because that person doesn't see you as worthy or because they want from you more than you can give, don't fret about it - you do you, and eventually, you'll find someone else. Or you won't, I don't know, a Lilly Evans and Severus Snape situation might occur, but at least you won't be hung up on that person, waiting for the impossible to happen. Also, feelings are involuntary - if you're truly a decent fella and you catch feelings for a girl who loves dating projects and not partners...you don't want that girl and you're better off without her. Trust me. Don't "chase" people - they're human beings, not trophies. If it doesn't work, don't force it, no matter how much you fancy that person. And finally, while it may sound like a stupid cliché, it is true - a person who truly loves someone realizes the uncomfortable truth that they might not be the person who makes them happy, so they should let them go. Wanting to be with someone for the sake of "reaching that goal" means that your feelings are not genuine.

Thank you for this video. And yea for enthusiastic yesses!

Like a whipping foil... such surgical precision. It just went deeper and deeper. 😶😯😮😲. Well done.

Nice guys may finish last, but last guys never finish nice... Quote from Saul Alinsky... NOT a nice guy.

It becomes a real problem when “getting a relationship” ends up being far too tied to self-esteem. That means if someone rejects them, they end up taking it too personally, as if it’s a slight on them as a person rather than just a general lack of interest/compatibility for whatever reason. They may then end up projecting this onto the other person or make these feelings of worthlessness the other person’s problem/responsibility, and end up blaming them. Doesn’t help that in media, getting a romantic partner is too often portrayed as a reward. Basically, there’s a difference between wanting to be with someone because you like being with them, and being with someone because you think that will fix your issues when you actually need therapy and to work on yourself.

I do think it's probably also not a good mindset to have hobbies and do things with the express goal of being interesting to a date. Better would be to focus on creating the lifestyle you want for your own sake, and then finding someone who enjoys that same lifestyle. It may sound similar but for example don't pick up a hobby of skydiving because you think that would sound attractive, when what you actually want to do is run a DnD campaign.

Nice (kind) is the bare minimum. Everyone should be nice (kind)

the "heck yes" attitude can be applied for anybody - I'm currently doing crafts while being on a Jill marathon - so at the end of this afternoon, I not only learned new things, but also created something I like myself :D

I took the saying to its logical conclusion: "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a terrible warning, so I'll use your terrible example as a good warning for myself."

As a recovering White Knight*, it is a difficult pill to swallow. Hedgehog Dilemma + Shame may create Nice Guys: "Nice Guys" are taught (implicitly or explicitly) that it is shameful to ask for wants and needs. That being rude and hurting others is the worse thing someone can do. Combine that with a general societal attitude of sexual needs being shameful and "Nice Guy" is formed. Conflict avoidance generates the conflict to be avoided: They want to express interest, but are afraid that in doing so, they will hurt the person they are interested in. So they "suppress to express" and end up hurting the person they are interested in because of fearing to do so. In ability to relate creates feed-back loop that lowers-self esteem: On being uninteresting, it is often that 'Nice Guys' have low opinions of themselves to find their own lives interesting. Or their interests often aren't returned by the people around them, which makes "Nice Guys" difficult to relate to and hinders their ability to relate to others, while suppressing their passions. The desire to not 'rock the boat' ends up sinking it. *Utilizing my experience and current transition, "White Knights" are a more developed form of "Nice Guy". "Nice Guys" believe they are entitled to love and affection of an love interest. Thus, creepiness. "White Knights' believe they are entitled to defend/protect a love interest, hoping thy fair maiden will reciprocate love in return. Advice for 'Nice Guy / White Knights'? Beyond the video? Embrace your passions. Be authentic. Authentic means putting time and effort into learning something(s). That helps you become the sort of person you would want to hang out with. The process of personal growth and development is struggling--don't be afraid of the struggle. And watch/read a lot of media created by and for women. Why? It makes you more relatable to women around you and will give you something to talk about. It also shows you the most important thing: Woman are people too. Seeing woman-people struggle, f-up, make mistakes, swear, be cruel, be nice, help people out, rescue another person from a fire, whatever . . .Helps cement the idea that women-people have agency and are capable of making their own choices. Which, bare minimum, means not settling on a person just because they're a woman and was nice/showed interest. They might not be the right person for you.

Thank you! ❤️

"You can ask for things that you want" I would like to expand on that idea. I actually find that people regardless of gender are attracted to people who ask for the things that they want. For one, it's nice to meet a person who knows what it is that they want out of an interaction. Saying "I don't really know what I want" might be true, but frankly it's boring and can stop a lot of conversations dead in their tracks. So figure out what you want, be mindful of it, and don't be afraid to ask. This could be as simple as telling a friend that you want to go get some food, knowing that they might decline, rather than just expressing your hunger and expecting them to pick up on the hint. Saying "I want to go out to get something to eat, will you come with me?" Is much better than saying "I'm hungry". When it comes to dating, and more specifically flirting, if the conversation indicates to you that someone might be sexually interested in you, you can ask to have sex with them. Eventually you're going to have to ask anyway if you want to have sex with them. Obviously you shouldn't ask this of them as soon as you decided they are a person you would enjoy having sex with, that would be rude. However there are several ways to gauge someone's sexual interest in you. The most reliable way, and the one most people use, is to invite someone out for a meal, and then ask if they want to come back to your home. The reason this works, and the reason people still do this, is because if someone is willing to sit through an entire meal with you and then still wants to spend time with you, they are most likely interested. The other reason it works is because it makes it very easy for the other person to say no. The only way to get an 'enthusiastic yes' is to make it as comfortable as possible for a person to say no. They may accompany you back to your house not knowing that there is an implication of sexual interest, so even once they are there they might still decline. It allows them multiple opportunities to decline, and people change their minds a lot. You might spend an hour talking in the living room, do some kissing, and then invite them to the bedroom, and they might still say no to that. This will happen a lot. Just be okay with that, and learn to appreciate the time you spent with that person instead of fixating on the things you wanted to do, but didn't get to. They might get all the way into the bedroom and still say no to having sex. That's okay. But the bedroom is the most appropriate place to ask "do you want to have sex?", so there's no reason to be embarrassed for asking if you're in that situation. Just be ready to take no as an answer. To go back to the example of asking a friend to get food, some people really do just say "I'm hungry" and make it the other person's problem to figure out what to do about that. Some guys will just tell a girl they are horny, and expect they will do something about it. This is the worst way to be. Never just tell a person you are horny, ask specifically for the things that you want. No one cares whether or not you are horny, and nobody wants to hear about it. Even if they are sexually interested in you. However, even if someone declines to have sex with you when you ask, they probably care a little bit about being asked. They might tell their friends "this guy asked to have sex with me, can you believe it? I told him no because of (reason), but he was (positive quality)". This will almost certainly boost their ego, and as long as you aren't asking at an inappropriate time, usually doesn't creep people out, especially if you accept a 'no' gracefully and with tact. I can't go into all the subtleties of knowing how to gauge sexual interest, or a step by step guide on getting consent, but hopefully this helps somebody out.

"At least don't freak out about it in public" is a nice addendum, as I am guy who has freaked out about it in private pretty hard.

GREAT advice.

Things you should expect people to do for you (provided that you're not an absolute dirtbag): treat you with respect. That's it. Of course, exceptions exist (especially when it comes to children; children shouldn't have to worry about where their next meal is coming from or where they'll be able to rest their heads at night), but that's the general rule. If I pay money to eat at a restaurant, I can and should expect that I will actually get my food, that it won't give me food poisoning, and that the employees I talk to treat me like an actual human being. What I shouldn't expect is to be charged less because I couldn't finish my food, or to be exempt from certain rules and regulations because I'm mentally unstable, or that my food will be brought to me before the people who have already been waiting for half an hour. I should expect to feel safe, but I shouldn't expect special treatment. If I go out on a date with someone, I can and should expect that they will be respectful of my personal boundaries, that they won't treat me like an object, and that they will take the time to actually get to know me instead of being on their phone all the time. I shouldn't expect a goodnight kiss, nor should I expect them to put my own pleasure above their personal boundaries. I shouldn't expect them to pay 100 dollars for dinner. I shouldn't expect them to shower me with gifts and affection. I shouldn't expect them to break curfew just so I can spend more time with them. I shouldn't expect them to marry me, become my boyfriend, or even agree to a second date. If I pay for an Uber, I can and should expect that I will get to my destination safely (provided that I wear my seatbelt), and that the driver won't call me names or mistreat me in any way. I shouldn't expect them to get me there at a specific time, that they'll want to be my friend, or that they'll be talkative with me. In every situation, there are things to be expected should or shouldn't happen, things that would be nice if they did or didn't happen, and things that are just plain out of the ordinary. And depending on the scenario, those things may be different. A child should expect their parent(s) to provide for their basic physical and emotional needs, but shouldn't expect them to give them whatever they want. But as you grow older, more and more of that responsibility falls on your own shoulders. I'm 20 years old, and still live with my parents. They don't have to let me stay. They don't have to buy my special gluten free food. They don't have to pay my medical bills. They don't have to drive me places. They just choose to do all those things for me because they love me, and they know that I'm not yet financially stable enough to survive on my own. The only thing I should expect from them is that they'll treat me like an actual person. All the other stuff is just a bonus. It's just extra things that they're choosing to do for me.

the problem with condemning nice guys is it is predicated on the 100% bogus belief that you get to decide what they mean

Alice Cooper said it best. "No more Mister Nice Guy."

If you have to preface any bit of chit-chat with someone with, "Now, I'm a 'nice/patient/compassionate/etc' guy, *but,"* and the rest of that sentence directly contradicts that quality, you really don't have that quality. It always goes better when you own and acknowledge your lapses and flaws, rather than distance and excuse yourself from them.

I wish someone had uttered the advice you give many, many years ago. I arrived at essentially the same thing (eventually). I won't deny I was close to that kind of "nice guy" (more or less), but after a time I realized that that type of "nice guy" is (most of the time) a jerk who hasn't gotten a chance to blossom, so to speak. I would add one thing to what you said, though: what most "nice guys" (and the guys who really are nice but have no clue) don't realize is that the attractive "jerks" are attractive (to a large extent) because of their self-confidence (not to be confused with cockiness, which is a totally different thing). It's kind of a Zen thing -- confidence, that is, in that you either have ir or don't. And what you say goes a long way towards becoming confident. Doing interesting things, makes you interesting, and it also makes you more self-confident. Sure, it may be tentative at first, but as time goes by it becomes ingrained. More or less, that is, as I can't say I don't have a tinge of self-doubt when in front of a woman I find attractive, but hey, you don't know if the parachute won't work until you open it mid-air, so BANZAI!!!

I have found that if you are generally happy and like who you are AND do things that make you happy you will attract people that like the same things.

I love this! this should be in the basic training videos of "how to human"