How one event changed Star Wars’s timeline forever 

The capital of the U.S. is Washington D.C. But having scenes of people reporting to the FBI, CIA, or a Naval base in New York would not be unrealistic. But yes, it would be cool to mention Chandrilla in future post-RotJ scenes involving Mon Mothma at least.

This is why we need clone wars style series’ that cover both during and post empire era stories. We’ve never gotten say a series with Han Luke and leia together in animation and it’s been free real estate for decades. Same for sequels if we could get both live action and animated series that cover those 30 years it’ll go a long way

As much as I don't like most of Disney canon, it does give us a pretty unique (for Star Wars) situation after TROS. There's no government at all. The New Republic was wiped out by Starkiller Base, the First Order is gone. Sith Eternal are gone. There's no government. It's a blank slate.

I find it funny how Rey was basically hidden on a world that Palpatine would DEFINITELY have access to considering the observatory but since Jakku was designated basically as the galaxy’s backwater(less) world not even he gaf 💀💀😭😭

Glad to see more voices like this cropping up. Positive lore minded channels like this give me hope for the fandom.

The Legends variant, with the galaxy dissolving into warlordism, makes more sense. Cinder itself now makes little sense, since Palpatine ended up not so dead after all.

While I like how you explained Cinder better than the actual lore did, and I appreciate it somewhat more now, I still wish the sequels had not basically repeated the whole Empire vs Rebels conflict. I still maintain that choice was lazy and I prefer having the Empire fragment into warlord territories that would continue to challenge the New Republic until the best of both sides would create a better galactic society through Hegelian Dialectics in the form of the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances, as what happened in Legends. I like how Legends acknowledged that galactic society had simply become too big to be ruled by a single entity. The reason why so many Outer Rim worlds joined the CIS is because the Republic had exceeded its grasp through relentless expansion over a thousand years, causing it to become decentralized and neglectful to the Outer Rim.

Agreed. Palpatine not actually dying in ROTJ. One event ruined everything.

Maybe the reasoning of Coruscant being very prominently featured is because the de jure capital may be the current planet designated as the capital(directly post-cinder it's chandrila in this case), but Coruscant is the de facto capital

Palpatines contingency to "destroy" the empire and new republic during the battle of jakku as you explained makes no sense with how huge the empire actually was. It's literally not possible for the empire to have all their resources situated in one planet. Do people have any idea how absolutely enormous the empire and the galaxy is? For the empire to be present in the entire galaxy it has hundreds of thousands if not millions of naval vessels. This idea that the empire could and would have most of their forces in one battle is impossible and a logistical nightmare. Biggest battle of the war? Certainly. But this idea that most of both of their forces would be destroyed is just not possible.

There's a lot of stories to tell in the gap between 2 and 20 ABY. Just as the Clone Wars fixed a lot of issues and gaps in the prequel trilogy, there are a lot of unanswered questions raised by the sequel trilogy, especially Rise of Skywalker. Project Necromancer does a good job exploring the notorious "somehow, Palpatine returned" matter. But, there must be a lot of untold stories about amassing a construction crew and building a fleet of Star Destroyers armed with planet killer weapons on a planet that is nearly impossible to find without very rare Sith tools. Instead of a plot flaw, it's a writer's challenge, and I am eager to see how this is handled, and what stories come out of it.

My main issue with Operatio Cinders is that imo Palpatine was too arrogant to even think that he and his empire could ever fail. Remember in ROTJ how he doesn't even expect Vader to betray him while he's torturing his son Luke. So that's why I'm not really on board with the idea that Palpatine would prepare a contingency plan, he never even thought that he would need it.

Operation Cinder is probably one of the dumbest things to come out of Disney canon to justify the sequels. Why would all of these high ranking Moffs basically shoot themselves in the foot by torching most of the Empire? Are we to believe they would all blindly follow the idiotic plans of a dead emperor? And the New Republic just demilitarizing and no extra conflicts arising after the fact is unrealistic. There would have been many Moffs acting as warlords for years after the conflict. Also, is it really a better plan to torch all of your resources, flee to the unknown region to rebuild with no infrastructure or vast trade with the rest of the Galaxy, and come back thirty years later expecting anyone to support you? It's like if a certain mustache man from Germany fled to the Moon after nuking his own Rhineland and returning in the 1970s expecting to conquer everything.

I wish the New Republic were never demilitarised in the first place!

U know, a lot of people hate Operation Cinder and Palpatine's contingency plan. But that has to come from people being misinformed, biased or just from them lacking media literacy. Because Palpatine never cared abt the Empire, just like Dooku never cared abt the Confederacy. It was all a means to an end. Empire was good, but it was only useful while Palpatine ruled it. So operation Cinder is a genious plan on his part, totally on the level of Sidius's manipulations during the Clone Wars.

If the Lucas group was smart, they would put together a group like they did for the High Republic. Take the era between the trilogies and work it out the same way.

I’ve always maintained that, just like the prequels, there is a good story behind the sequels. It’s a story of a republic, founded on righteous principles, slowly being corrupted by the forces left behind by the old system. All the while the remnants of the empire succumbs to further radicalisation and begin a campaign of rapid military buildup and espionage against the nation that defeated it.

I’m gonna love watching your channel grow

Two points against the criticisms of Operation Cinder’s “realism” 1) it’s based on the reality of the Nero Decree, where Hitler ordered the destruction of German infrastructure at the end of the war, nominally to prevent its use by the Allies, but in the view of many historians an act of vengeance on his part against the nation he felt had failed HIM 2)Palpatine doesn’t want something like what Thrawn tries to build or the Imperial Remnants under the Moff Council in Legends. The Empire only has value to him AT ALL to the degree to which it is an instrument of the Sith. Operation Cinder is meant to assure it is the Eternal Sith and the Final Order which will rebuild the Empire, not men like Thrawn (for example).

YT analytics just dropped your channel into mhy queue. I like this video and your take, delivery and script. You did your homework and made this enjoyable and informative. I subscribed and will view your previous videos. Good luck with your channel. Best, Tony

Why would Palpatine want his empire destroyed, when his big plan was to come back in a cloned body? He would have to gain control again and lose many of his followers because he made it very clear how little he cares for them. Operation Cinder is just another inconsistent and stupid decision by Disney that shows how important it would have been to actually take some time and plan this through. Im not even a fan of legends but at least it makes sense.

the charm of the original trilogy was that you did not need to have the details of every element on screen to understand & keep following the story ... now there's a backstory to even the most insignificant mention ... it has become a bloated & boring mess

Just discovered your channel and it is amazing! Would love a vid comparing the histories of the sith in legends vs canon, ik canon doesnt have nearly as much detail but i would love to see any major differences between the two

WOW, this is the first video I have seen from you and I am completely astonished 😱

I hope more channels like yours pop up as time goes on.

Such an awesome video, and really does line up with our anxiety/hesitancy around how Thrawn will be adapted and handled, especially with how Filoni and Favreau are open to slightly retconning canon and not setting specific dates for their shows. The lack of Rae Sloane being mentioned also bites a bit, but hopefully Hux was simply appearing in her place to keep things as secretive as possible for the proto-First Order. Snoke and his attendants presumably also usurp Sloane at some point, but his injuries thanks to Luke also means he was in the main galaxy in some manner as well - does that mean he's got a chance of showing up at the end of the Mandoverse, or at least the first decade post-Endor? We have the feeling that Thrawn will ultimately not be supported by Palpatine and his eventual forces, but it could be a question of if Palpatine's happy to see what Thrawn can achieve, or if he intends to have his agents undermine him at a crucial point. And will Zahn get a chance to continue the Grysk storyline if Filoni is ultimately in charge of presumably ending Thrawn's story in canon? All questions we got, but happy to have your video to emphasize how effective and horrifying Operation Cinder really was for the official end of the Galactic Civil War!

The capital is said to be shifting, so it’s consistent that the world would go from Chandrilla to Coruscant to Hosnian Prime with other worlds in between

lol “just take us to Chandrila please!”. Also, I really hope we finally see Gallius Rax. He’s a very important part of the year after Endor.

I only just found your channel, and it's amazing to find a channel that seemingly treats everything in Star Wars as...Equal. It's not "blah blah EU sucks" or "blah blah Sequels sucks". It's just talking about Star Wars. It's great! You've earned a subscriber. Star Wars as a fandom needs more positivity. Everything has warts. I'd like to celebrate the good things. I know there's pitfalls, missteps, and they should be called out. But. Not every single video has to be going on about why something sucks. ...Though I do still think the Aftermath books went too easy on Jar Jar Binks. That guy woulda been tried for essentially giving Palpatine his Reichstag decree.

I think Operation Cinder makes sense to an extent: Palpatine had no plan for anyone else in power but himself. I bet Thrawn, like Gallius Rax and Gideon, will probably end up dead, and his army destroyed, to give the New Republic's illusions of peace. I don't think it should go on for 20 years again. It worked better in Legends, but in the new timeline it wouldn't line up well. I think the comics have been handling the tie-ins with the new films best. In the Darth Vader comics, it's found that Sidious had already been operating on Exegol decades before Episode 9, with prototypes of Snoke and his Praetorian Guards being made, and the Star Destroyer Fleet beginning construction. It's a great comic that ties in with the sequels while building Vader's arc before ROTJ. I'd like to see stuff like this. It feels natural and ties in with Cinder well, adding more stakes to the Emperor's defeat and the First Order's rise. I also think we should see more stories set closer to The Force Awakens, like the short story collection "Before the Awakening". Perhaps an animated series exploring the lives of Rey, Finn, Poe and Kylo Ren before Episode 7 could be the next big one.

Looking at both Legends and Canon, its exciting to often take in decades of post-Endor Star Wars stories, seeing different versions of what happened after those closing moments in RETURN OF THE JEDI. Dark Empire in LEGENDS has to be the most appealing.

I like your take on this. It's measured and has a lot of meaningful points to the aformentioned operation cinder. Let me ask you this: Do you think there should be a movie or series centered around Jakku and the "End of the Empire"?

I'm curious what the Aurabesh is below, is it your dialogue?

I personally don’t mind the idea of a slab and burn retreat (operation cinder) but in terms of world building it makes no sense. If a galaxy spanning empire was seemingly defeated within a single year of loosing its leader I would expect the seasoned politicians and generals from the rebellion to be exceedingly weary of their situation. It makes sense that the conflict would drag on for years, potentially decades past the point of the emperors death. You could say that it would be a given that the rebels would eventually win and that the death of the emperor signaled a major shift in the balance of power within the war. However, when you are dealing with a conflict that ostensibly spans thousands of worlds and maintains trillions of dissidents it would make more sense for the new republic to never really defeat the empire in its totality. Instead establishing itself as the dominate power amidst a sea of neutral systems, imperial holdouts, and crime syndicates. I feel a more sensible world building approach would have had cinder occur at the tail end of the conflict years after the death of the emperor. Wherein a core group of moffs and officers orchestrate what appears to be a finale defeat/ disintegration of the imperial military when in reality they shift essential personnel equipment material etc to designated fall back positions within unknown regions; from where the first order with eventually expand.

fantastic video as always!! You are going to get much much bigger one day I know it

great video bro!

Excellent video

Also, when was the Purge of Maldelor? During Conder? After?.....

Leave Coruscant, take us to Chandrila please...ends up on Tatooine once again.

I would have preferred if the power vacuum killed the empire by it collapsing in on itself and the new republic just acting as defenders but letting them kill each other with a few escaping. Sure Cinder sounds like it but it was a continuation of the war. A civil war stickly in the empire as it falls apart and the new republic just sneakly gaining influence just sounds better.

It’s crazy how this is one of the best videos I’ve ever seen, and it has less than 500 views

Operation cinder was one of the dumbest ideas they could have made in the new Disney canon. Basically they kill off the empire via one big self destruct event. And since then the authors have to downplay this in order to still have some imperial antagonists in the episode VI to VII timeframe. No, i very much prefer the old lore, where the Alliance and later the New Republic have to grind the empire down in an almost 20 year long struggle. Oh, and the New Republics capital is Coruscant. This was established in the old lore and i am happy that they kept this in the newer shows like The Mandalorian etc.

I really appreciate how open and accepting you are of the current Star Wars canon, to me, the new canon is the Star Wars I’ve grown up with and it’s been really disheartening to constantly listen to the community blindly trash everything that comes out all the time just because it isn’t legends. There are legitimate problems with canon Star Wars but there are also a lot of great stories and characters that I wish more people in the community would be open to

The Canon ends at the end of the 3rd Timothy Zahn book

We should have let that mad man Lucas cook.

If anything, one would think that Operation Cinder would lead to the EU timeline, and its decades-long conflict between the New Republic and the Imperial Remnant. After Operation Cinder, there would likely be a bipartisan outcry to crush the Imperial war machine into oblivion until they didn't have the resources to EVER pull off such a stunt ever again. It would also likely ensure that former Imperial-loyal worlds like Kuat would become, if not pro-Republic, at least staunchly anti-Imperial, and it would take a lot of work from pro-Imperial politicians and officers who still believed in the concept of the Empire to try to repair that shattered image. If there were a pivotal moment, it would be the one where the Republic stubbornly refuses to recognize the threat that an Imperial Remnant poses, and not only refused to pursue them, but also prevented member worlds from contributing a fleet that would have been able to resist an organization like the First Order in the first place. For the most part, Darth Caedus's Galactic Alliance Guard fleet/army was likely roughly analogous to the First Orders strength, but faced a robust resistance in the form of an alliance between the New Jedi Order, the Corellian Confederation, and even the Bothans and Hapans joined in on the action. If the Resistance had that much fleet strength in TLJ, they would have posed a serious threat to the First Order. And to be fair, the New Republic had already suffered massively under surprise attacks from Palpatine's Dark Empire and Thrawn, so they weren't about to take any more chances. And the Vong would have changed priorities for the Imperial Remnant, and would have given an opportunity for politicians who wanted a more cooperative, or at least an unantagonistic relationship with the New Republic. Not to mention that they could not defeat the Vong on their own, although it might be entertaining to see the First Order try.

Disney should have recast Luke, Han and Leia with actors in their 20s and made a movie trilogy set a year after Return of the Jedi. Hammill, Ford and Fisher could have been the narrators/ older versions of themselves telling the story to their kids in the present day. There was too much of a gap between ROTJ and TFA

I headcanon operation cinder the origins to Dark Empire

i love how you're non-biased and seem very civil

PLEASE MAKE MORE VIDEOS!!!

I still don’t understand how Luke, and his new order some how didn’t stop this, and didn’t find out especially the rebels not finding out, and palpatine coming back was very lazy, and ruined the skywalker saga

5:20, which comic is that from?

What an amazing video you did and I totally agree with you on the modern star wars content, While I understand why Filoni and Faverau want to bring Thrawn into the Mandoverse I agree that it totally contradicted the political state of the galaxy that was established by the Aftermath Trilogy I think The Lore Master made a video about this years ago the title is called ''The New Story star wars needs to tell that'll enrich post ROTJ content [Canon]'' you should check that video it is an amazing idea but in short they argued that and I feel the same that most of the stuff of Ahsoka, Ezra, Thrawn and Sabine, should be more standalone like say happening in the Unknown Regions (for the Grysk storyline.) or at least the New Galaxy not another thrawn trilogy (even though I'm interested to see Filoni film how close would it be for the original Thrawn trilogy and what would the differences?) The Same with Mando that show should have be standalone like Season 1 maybe something similar to George R.R. Martin Dunk and Egg short stories where you have small scale events granted you have the death of Baelor Breakspear and the second blackgyre rebellion but for the most part it is small scale compared to the main A Song of Ice and Fire Books. I will admit and even Eckhartsladder pointed this out as well it almost as if Lucasfilm is ignoring Gallius Rex story or the character since Battlefront 2 (like he should have appear in that game as a hologram but still.) Hell we don't know what he looks like which is the same situation with Cal Omas from Legends. Hopefully he appeared in the Post Return of the Jedi comics from Marvel which interesting to think about as you point out in you're video at least the Alphabet Squadron trilogy was able to find loopholes so that book trilogy could fit with everything that established from the Aftermath Trilogy. Also with the new book Star Wars: The Rise and Fall of the Galactic Empire by an actual historian Chris Kempshall coming out in July maybe we could get an illustration of Gallius Rex? While I admit I understand why Filoni and Faverau want to show us Coruscant in Mando S3 and Ahsoka outside of Andor there was a drought of lack of Live Action Coruscant since revenge of the sith so I would give them that credit but still I think Coruscant should be only featured in the Pershing episode while Chandrilla or Nakadia should be the planet that Captain Teva go there for asking the New Republic as well as the planet where Hera received her trial. Speaking about Coruscant you should do a video on Coruscant's fate in canon and legends as you're next video after this one and I will admit this maybe a bit controversial but I actually really like the fate of Coruscant in the New Canon? as it reminded me of the decline of influence from real-life rome and Asimov's Trentor. Like the whole moving of the capital from Coruscant reminds me of a lot of when Constantine moves the capital of rome to Constantinople. In fact I kinda like the idea of Coruscant having it's own decline similar to Rome and Trentor after their own respective empires decline and finally fall into ruin. For what it is worth I think it is a neat development, Coruscant was a product of the high Republic. Arrogance and excess with corruption buried and hidden under the surface. The Empire was an authoritarian rule that probably did nothing but increase the income disparity between the upper crust and the lower levels. When the Empire was destroyed, the new republic was forged in fear. They didn’t want to repeat the circumstances that led to the Empire in the first place. They didn’t want to have a military and risk becoming the Empire. They didn’t want to have the government be based on any singular planet in fear of a super weapon like the Death Star being used against them. When they moved the capital off world it was the last straw. The empire probably had dismantled laws and programs that protected the people of the city. Without the stormtrooper presence, organized crime would have been able to creep out of the lower levels and begin taking over parts of the surface. Then, without the senate being based there much of the elite class would have fewer and fewer reasons to live there. All that would be left at that point would be corrupt mega corporations, large scale factory operations, and various types of organized crime. That be said I will agree that the planet should appear in The Rise of Skywalker as one of the ideas that I like in Duel of Fates is definitively Finn leading a uprising on Coruscant as it was under the controlled of the First Order.

Somehow Palpatine returned....

There is some legends thats mediocre, but some really great stuff too. I cant say ive seen anything in "canon" that isnt mediocre or slightly above average at best. Except maybe "Clone Wars" but that existed in the legends era.

Yeah, it was when Lucas sold SW to Disney.

Filoni is just not caring about what to do with the Canon. Therefore, Corusant is the New Republic center in his series

Imagine if they had planned just 6 months ahead after purchasing this $4000000000 franchise!

Why not May 4th, 2014 indeed (Coincidentally)!

Meh. All it was was another case of retroactively trying to justify poorly thought-out decisions made by JJ Abrams. They hadn't planned on Sidious returning, got cornered and then brought him back with no explanation. In order to make it work they had to invent all this other nonsense. It is the same exact thing Star Trek had to deal with after JJ butchered their timeline with major events for very short-term tension. The result to Paramount trying to make sense of an interstellar empire brought low by a nova so far from their capital, and when they have FTL travel, was just as stupid and poorly done. The Exogol plot point shoehorned into everything is simply stupid and ruins not only the ST timeline, but now the OT timeline. So stupid.

I like the idea of Operatian Cinder. İts also in character for Palpatine. But it is greatly contridicts with Thrawn's rise to power. And ı really hate it when it is used for the justfy existince of First Order. Since you know all of it will be wasted with ROS. İt would be much better ıf Thrawn took advantage of the Operation Cinder to take over the empire instead.

yeah it's called the Walt Disney Corporation

The sequel trilogy book covers go hard

Yeah, Disney taking over Changes everything

If the comics do go post Endor i could see them brining in Afteramth elements. Books and Comics are prettty good at adhereing to books and comics. It's the On Screen stuff that is allowed al to more leeway to do whatever it wants more or less.

1:30 Clone Wars DOES NOT exist in legends due to the fact in contridicts damn near everything else IN legends.

this guy is gonna become the new eckharttsladder

"Star Wars's" 💀

That “one event” is George selling Star Wars to Disney 😭

Star wars's cannon began in 1977 not 2014 lol.

Legends is my canon, the sequel movies are fan fiction in our house, but we do love the new Disney+ shows.

The problem with the new Disney Star Wars timeline is that compared to the legends material, it's just boring. As you mentioned the way the Empire fell in Disney lore happens far too quickly because even after the defeat at Endor, the empire was still the dominant military force in the galaxy with thousands of ships and worlds under their control. it just doesn't make sense that they would lose most of that on one year. This would be the equivalent of the US Navy which has around 700 - 800 ships and losing most of that in a year which won't happen. Look how long it took for the Roman Empire to fall, the real troubles started in the 370s AD and led to Rome being sacked in 390, 410, 455 and 472 AD. Even then the Empire went onto exist as the Byzantine empire until 1453. I get that Disney was paving the way for the first order and wanted to quickly make way for them by having the empire fall rapidly but they could have done it in a better way. Just think about all the great legends material that we lost such as the Rogue Squadron X-Wing books, Thrawn trilogy, Dark Empire Comics, Jedi Academy and also the New Jedi Order books, and also not to mention a lot of the characters that came along with them who are now confined to legends. I'm sure not everyone would agree and each to their own but honestly I just think the writing and the way Disney has handled the timeline has been lousy and incoherent. You only need to watch the sequel movies to know this and honestly, the sacrifice of the legends material certainly wasn't worth the garbage we got.

Idc what people say the formation of the empire to the first order and palpatine being behind everything all along still with the cloning and snoke genius! Don’t get me wrong the sequels are garbage and last Jedi is a shit stain to the franchise and Rey a terrible character but besides that I think the actual plans palpatine had is interesting

No the plane makes PERFECT sense with palpatine’s character and is one of the better editions in canon

That was the moment Disney acquired the franchise.

Star Wars‘ timeline.

Legends will always be better in my opinion especially because of The Force Unleased and Star Killer

What JJ Abrams did to Star Wars is why I have officially disavowed the so called canon stated in this video

it’s called disney owning the franchise

That's why Legends was the best!

One event changed starwars timeline? That is easy. It is when Disney bought LucasFilm. That changed everything, forever.

This is the most absurd nonsense, thus making it the perfect setup for the sequel trilogy.

Cinder is a perfect example of Disney crap.

Well, I rather prefer just TFA verse, Rogue verse & Mando/Filoniverse indeed!

Nope, the cannon crap is crap.

The sequels aren’t canon. End of story.

operation cinder is the absolute worst piece of dogshit lore to come from disney

Disney trashed Star Wars

Man star wars went to shit lol

Sw 8 IS the worst star wars