How The Left DESTROYED Liberalism 

Here's my biggest issue with what I see from the Left. The Left says to the Non Left, "When you have power over me, I ask you for mercy. And, since mercy is in your nature you grant it to me. When I have power over you, you ask me for mercy. But, mercy is not in my nature and I do not grant it to you."

calling fdr and chomskey classical liberals would have john locke rising from the dead just to have a second heart attack

Language matters. And groups have been hijacking words at an astonishing rate over the past 50 years, The 'classical liberal' has way more in common with today's American conservative than they have with today's American liberal / left.

The confusion around the terms “liberal” and “left” in America comes from the old centrist paradigm of center left (liberals) and center right (conservatives). But those two groups of people were both centrists. In today’s America, that old paradigm is meaningless. Because “left” today means actual leftist. As in some form of Marxist (Communist, Socialist, Maoist, Neo-Marxist). There is nothing liberal about a Marxist. A liberal is an individualist. Whether Classical Liberal or Social Liberal, still an individualist. A Marxist is a collectivist. All American liberals would be labelled “Rightists” and then sent to the reeducation work camp in Maoist China. Because everyone not far left is a rightist. Period. A liberal is not a leftist. A liberal is a centrist in terms of world government and economic politics on the horseshoe chart. Liberals believe in liberty. Leftists believe in authority. Which is just another” word for tyranny.

I’ve been saying for years, I’m a limited government liberal and I’m proud of that. It’s what our constitution intended.

I've got to agree with most of the comments here. FDR was not a Classical Liberal. Classical liberals today would be more like the libertarians.

I love Michael Shellenberger's work. But, hang on: How is FDR a classical liberal? FDR was a semi-fascist. Classical liberalism was a a 19th century thing. It's Jeffersonian and Jacksonian. FDR was a progressive. Progressivism derived from German conservative statism.

Thank the Earth as a fellow Gen X I had kids in my 40’s instead of my 20’s/ 30’s because I “MISSED” that whole: “Everyone gets a trophy” BULLSH!T…

It gets old listening to these converts from the Left talk about how the Left used to be about free speech. That's never been true. The Left, even the American Left, has always been about imposing policy and oppressing dissent. FDR was the closest we've had to dictator. After the crisis years of the Depression and the war, the country turned against the obvious authoritarianism of international communism in the 50's. The communist professors and students of the 60's used calls of free speech as a tactic. They wanted to crack the defenses against their brand of tyranny by making themselves into victims of repression. They never believed in it as a principle. That's the point of Repressive Tolerance. The Left is collectivist, and it's impossible to create collective action when people are pulling in different directions. You've got to get everyone on the same page to get them moving the way you want, which means suppressing calls to do anything other than what the leaders of the collective decide is best.

I grew up antiwar, pro-human rights, pro-free speech, peace pot and microdot....now im maga by default and the only change is the greying of my beard

The division between left and right is wrong. The "cut" is more clearly made between those who value truth vs those who value power. Look at the results and not how it is presented. For instance, the rabid anti gaming moms and action groups craving censorship (right) or the reverence of Che (left), who enjoyed unsubscribing people are both examples of people who worshiped power over others and see truth as an occasionally useful tool.

I'm a Liberal, but by today's standards I'm 'Right Wing' ... So be it.

That man put Nelson Mandela and CHE GUEVARA in the same sentence as HEROS?!😂😂😂😂

Is this channel baiting with the thumbnail implying FDR was a classical liberal, which is absurd?

FDR pushed for the largest expansion of the federal government since the Civil War, undermined or directly violated the Bill of Rights multiple times, threatened to pack the SCOTUS with his cronies if they called any of his unconstitutional programs what they were, and bought repeated reelection by creating social programs to make poor people dependant on the government... I think he confused "liberal" with "socialist". That said, I despised labeling large groups "leftist" or "rightist", since those are story ambiguous and shift definitions often.

New Zealands left wing has gone crazy too.

Do not confuse Leftists, Modern Liberals, and Classical Liberals.

FDR ---- a liberal?

To me, conservatism means to be faithful to the original ideas brought forth by our founders, the very thing that made us great. A liberal wants to progress but often it’s not in tune with the original ideals so why would we listen to them when we have the great thinkers who built our country?

Liberal or Conservative doesn't matter so much as the perception of authority.

Good conversation.

Wow, this is me. These people are talking about me! I thought I was a liberal until about 3-4 years ago. I'm definitely not right wing, my wife is an immigrant!

The government has no business getting involved in charity. They can only take your money (by force or the threat of force) to give it to others. Why would we think they would be good at helping others in this way, even if we were stupid enough to assume their benevolence ?

“Free speech movement of the 80s/90s was coded left?” What? Might I remind you, Mr. Shellenberger, of the PMRC? Founded by Tipper Gore? Mrs. Al Gore?

We here at Berkeley . Says it all .

Born and raised in Massachusetts. Ive always been liberal but the shift happened during covid and continues. Have I changed or has the left changed? Ive held the same beliefs throughout but now Im right wing? lol Interesting times.

Left-right and liberal-conservative are two different political spectra that don't coincide 100% all the time.

FDR was more of a not see than not. Yikes.... you reveal yourself.

Yep ...i really sat up when Michael said "they considered" themselves ( speaking of his parents ) ..middle class ...it has to do with different levels of poverty , which is a whole conversation thats not being had ..

Those on the right supported the King and his right to veto the national assembly, those on the left didn't and eventually revolted. The French Revolution did not happen in 1789, and that is when the sitting on the right or left to support or oppose the Kings right to veto happened in the National Assembly, it had nothing to do with free speech. I don't know what to think of Shellenburgers interview here, he does bring up some good points but he is woefully incorrect about a lot of historical things he brings up in this interview. Not only is he just completely wrong about how the right and left began in France, (that division lead to the revolution itself not some disagreement over free speech after the fact as he says). He also states that the FDR democrats supported minorities and equal rights, while ignoring the fact that a huge number of new deal democrats were also pro segregationist southern democrats, after that he says 80's and 90's democrats fought for free speech, well then explain political correctness that came into the lexicon in the early 70's, explain the attempted and partial censoring of the music industry in the 80's, and then the same thing against video games in the early 90's, these were all censorship and speech control movements by democrats. I say this as a liberal myself but the democrats have never really been liberal, they started as an anti federalist party, and morphed into very controlling progressives in the last 100 years.

It all comes back to the eternal Oppressor / Oppressed mind - set.

You've got it backwards man. Leftism didn't ruin Liberalism. Liberalism ruined the Left.

Old school liberal meant: 1) anti- monopolies 2) UNION protection 3) trade tariffs to protect USA wages and benefits from cheap imports due to cheap labor....i.e. Mexico, China, India ! 4) government regulations to protect from price gouging, monopolists, pollution 5) Political lobby controls on money and gratuities. Equal under the law...white, black, purple, fat, skinny....men / women !

the failure of classical left like FDR was ignoring race and race relationships, and that created the gap between the establishment and the radicals.

The only means liberalism have to maintain itself are reliant upon hypocrisy, but the liberal is an omnipresent existence of hypocrisies which is the only reason why liberalism lasts as long as it has. Take prisons as an example. What sort of logic is there within liberalism to support the existence of prisons? The strongest argument is that the criminal violates the "social contract." This in itself is hypocritical and nonsensical. What sort of "free" society is it where everyone is born obligate to some mystical contract that none of us had the will or ability to consent to? And if you go against this intangible document it gives the "free" people the means to violate your political equality and your human right to movement by throwing you in prison. And if you point this out the only response you get is to be threatened to be punished with ostracization and isolation. Its also funny as these are the people who that mankinds state-of-nature is to be a solitary animal roaming and freely engaging with other people. Yet that baseline existence is a threat and punishment enough to strongarm others into compliance with a conceptualized zeitgeist of the will of everyone called the "Social Contract." All-the-while these exact same individuals who demand tou ablute your individual choices to be compliant with the will of the group will turn around and straight-faced call themselves "individualist." The socialist, having a better understanding of liberal philosophy than the liberal, expects some rational consistency, they notice the same irrationality in the philosophy that posits itself as being rational, and actually believes in it. Liberalism is why the socialist will avowedly demand the abolishment of prisons. Because the Socialist actually understands and believes in Liberalism. The Conservative recognizes the history of humanity. The collectivist-individualist dichotomy is a farce. People are both. The criminals actions of vice, decadence and degeneracy assails both individuals and society as a whole. Therefore you are not free to commit vice. Virtues uplift not just yourself but others around you. Therefore you have limitless freedoms to pursue virtues. Most of the modern debate are socialists expecting liberalism to actually be liberals and conservatives trying to point out liberalism isnt a great value on its own.

Climate change . . . Do you mean that lil ole me can effect the survival of planet earth? A planet that has existed for millions of years despite earthquakes, tsunamis, meteors, and other calamitous events? All of those plastic bags that us humans don’t recycle are going to disrupt Mother Earth? Dear old Mother can shake us off like dead skin cells any time that she so chooses. 😂

We're not in 18th Century Revolutionary France under a 3-estate model of absolute Monarchism, so "left" and "right" mean absolutely nothing. Authoritarian vs Libertarian is at least an axis measuring the scope of State power which is clearly definable. There are other such axes, so why not abandon "left & right"?

I'm all for liberty and freedoms. Classicly American. I'm Voting RFK to bring back those freedoms I don't see either red or blue (left and right hand of the power and control party) actively working towards. Take our country back for real Liberty for the people.

The fact he sees living on a family farm poverty tells me all I need to know about this dyed in the wool democrat.... or Communist

Question. What is the limiting principle that liberals have that conservatives don't?

wtf. did this guy just mention Che Guevara as someone to celebrate!? omfg.

Nonsense: the terms "liberal" and "conservative" have no substantive reference, and Zuby and Mike prove that in their own definitions of those slippery terms. Liberal and conservative describe an emotional state, a mood.

“Free speech was not just liberal it was radical” This dude is wild. It’s like listening to a cult member who’s de programming trying to justify how the cult started off good, lol. It was always about control of speech. Abby Hoffman said “ don’t trust anyone over 40” Abby Hoffman was well over 40 when he said this.

FDR was not a classical liberal. No way.

Zuby is he strongest most powerful woman I know! Hes awesome!

The right is also destroyed.

Che Guerva a hero.... WTF lol is this a late April Fools joke

classical liberalism refers to 19th century term "liberal". The term is highjacked by marxists. The libertarians now are 19th century "classical liberals" from back then. Don't get it twisted.

Hierarchies and liberalism. Humans form all sorts of hierarchies. Athletics is one. Why are there so many great American black basketball players? I mean black Americans are only 12% of the population, but have been over 80% of all the great players. Why? It's curious because most black people are not great athletes, just ordinary like anyone else of all races. The reason is there are slight variations in human populations. Most black people are athletically normal, but within the black population you get a bit higher ratio of extremely talented athletes. Same thing is true with science, chess and math. Some populations do better on average. American Jews are 1% of the population but are 30% of Harvard students, are 50% of world chess champions and are about 30% of graduates of "The World's Hardest Math Class" at Harvard. Why is that? Most Jewish people are just normal average people, but within the Jewish population you get a bit higher ration of extremely talented people in math and chess and science. Liberals say treat everyone as an individual. I agree. What do you do if you are a black man who is a genius at math or science? Progressives would say we must even out all differences between groups, so we have quotas on how many geniuses allowed from each group? Makes no sense. That's like saying most Americans are white and half the population is female. So the NBA should have a lot of women in it. But that's dumb to implement equality because women don't play basketball at the same level as men. Elon Musk tweeted Mark Cuban about this, Mark is Woke, thinks all groups need equality of outcome, but Mark won't hire short Asian women for his Mavericks basketball team. Why not? Mark is not stupid, they don't have the talent. Plus Mark is lying. So given that all groups display variations how do we maintain peace in a multi-racial society? Do we pretend all people are equal? Can that progressive lie exist in the real world, run a society? I doubt it. We should give everyone equal opportunity, but stop expecting equal outcomes. People succeed or don't succeed for all kinds of reason. The liberal answer is, judge everyone as an individual, as Martin Luther King said. I agree. The progressive answer is to lie, tell everyone that everyone is equal, but all white men are bad, so we have to just discriminate against white men. So basically progressives are self hating white racists, who don't like white people, resent their success. Progressives just lie, tell everyone that everyone is equal, all groups should compete based on group identity. No thanks. That just encourages racism and violence in the long run. If progressives want to keep pushing the narrative all whites are evil especially men, then eventually white men will take that seriously and join the competition to just benefit white men, over women and minorities. I dread the day white men decide fuck it, we'll compete against you as a group. What a horror show that will be.

So the left/right dichotomy comes from the French tradition no wonder it is heavily flawed.

I have been an OG Liberal for 48yrs. In 2024, that makes me far right.

It appears to be Michael Savage's shtik to say that liberalism is a mental disorder. I would disagree with him and say it is _leftism_ that is a mental disorder, and that classical liberalism is respectable and respectful of other people's views.

I’ve read a few books on FDR, my favorite historical figure. FDR was smart enough to realize after 1920’s/ 1929 Crash: Wall Street, you fucked up. Time to pay 90% and get shit rolling again… THEN!!! When war broke out, FDR deregulated ALL KINDS OF INDUSTRY/ SUBSIDIZED THEM (predominantly the auto industry) to build hundreds of thousands of Planes, tanks, ships, guns, ammo… To send the Nazis back to Valhalla. In the span of a SINGLE DECADE 1/2, FDR was a: Raging Liberal AND… A staunch Conservative/ Pro-Wall Street. Legend.

I’m not so sure why the words matter all so much altogether. Why are we trying so hard to group people together?

What you guys are discussing, is mostly an american phenomenon, basically because you've grown accustomed to only having 2 parties to choose between in your parliamentary system and elections. In most european countries, there is much higher number of political parties to choose from, so we don't tend to conflate "liberal" with "the left". You really ought to have more choice on the political spectrum, dear americans, maybe you wouldn't get so confused about the political terminologies and what they actually mean. I mean ... "red or blue, where to put the mark?" ... that's clearly a gross over-simplification of the political ideologies and choices there really is to consider.

Sorry that’s just absurdly wrong. You were on the same train you just wanted to get off at your stop not keep going off the cliff.

Bro said liberal like fdr and che, lmao wat

Libertarians got it right

I still like classical Liberalism as an idea but there's a lot of errors and false premises that undermine its foundations. Until you address these issues liberalism is doomed to be twisted or cast aside.

Lol if you're a Liberal it means you're a Right winger by definition. What planet are you people on?

No they didn't, they literally opened the doorway to all of this that we are seeing today ... They were the introduction drug, to all the hard stuff.

American use of the word Liberal stems from a time when the right was far less ‘liberal’

Sorry dude but thr Roosevelt admin was the most racist, anti-Semitic and tyrannical as any admin! It also caused the depression to last an extra decade!

☕️

Shellenberger is full of himself.

Human potential doesn't need to be affirmed. Human potential is left to the individual.