What’s also good about the old school manual locking hubs is I can be free wheeling and put it into low 4 for reversing a trailer whilst still actually in 2wd. You get much better control with the low gearing of 4 low
I have a mod in my Tacoma that lets me do this. There's a front driveshaft disconnect that disconnects the front driveshaft in 2WD for the extra 0.5 mpg it saves. But you can tell the system to disconnect the driveshaft in 4 low. Super nice for backing up a trailer
Also if you have a 1HZ and are traveling in high altitudes above 4000m you can have it in 2WD Low Range to compensate the loss of power in H2 due to the thinner air. Makes a huge difference. Just learnt that here while traveling in the Andes.
12:15 -12:18 Hi Ronny, the front driveshaft is also rotationg in 2 WD when the hubs are locked. (Should be blue as well) While changing from 2WD to 4WD it does not have to catch up speed. Changing from 2WD to 4WD just connects the (rotating) front drive shaft to the transfer case which rotates with the same speed when driving straight on a non slippery surface. Put you camera under your vehicle, lock the hubs, ad you will see that the front driveshaft is also rotating in 2WD (as shown at 12:53-12:55)… greetings from Germany (love your Videos and would like to visit australia with my hilux!)
Well if he is, good luck to him. It was still good information. Anyone buying a new 70 series needs to watch this channel. I just wish I had the money for one. @@iwaswrongabouteveryhthing
@@NoMatureContent I've never seen an ad that will give you a list of useless features and shortcomings included in their latest product. If the cruiser is good, it's good. I've seen reviews on other channels and they're all saying the same thing about this truck. He may be a fan, like many of us are and with good reason, but we come here because we know that in spite of everything the man is objective in his reviews.
FACT CHECK 12:12 front drive shaft is already turning if your hubs are locked. The front drive shaft doesn’t need to catch up because it’s already rotating. The engagement of drive to the front occurs in the transfer case not in the differential
@12.25 the front shaft should be blue. Your front drive shaft will be rotating at the same speed as everything else when the hubs are locked. (Yes, the front shaft will driven by the front diff when hubs are locked and in H2)
Thanks Ronny for the review nice to know that about Automatic Hubs, but knowing how auto Hubs work We would Prefer classic Manual AISIN Hubs... what do you think folks about this issue? Regards
I disagree with your downhill assist finding. In the VIC High Country when it gets very steep and slippery and the engine braking can’t hold it, the DAC is excellent for that application.
12:35 Wouldn't the front driveshaft also rotate with the correct speed in that part of the explanation? With the 4wd enganging lever you don't disconnect it on both sides but just at the transfer case side if i understand it correctly. So going in a straight line without spinning or skidding wheels, even the front drive shaft should spin in the correct speed and "doesn't need to catch up" but just be connected.
I’ve got an MN triton with super select, it’s awesome. I just don’t under why it isn’t used by other companies. Feels like I’ll be taking a step backwards when I get a 76 series.
Interesting re auto hubs. The GU has had them since 1998 and I’ve never had an issue In all that time dispute never using the lock feature. Maybe it’s made a little differently than the LC? That said, plenty of people swap them out for manual hubs too.
Don't know for the 4runner specifically, but most modern 4wd's have fixed hubs. Meaning they are always engaged. With that you have the entire driveline spinning at the same speed and only need to connect it in the Tcase. Some have an actuator on the front diff which can disconnect one or both axles from the front diff. If you're in 2H your front axles will be turning but not your diff. If you put it in 4H you connect the front driveshaft and front diff to the Tcase and some sort of differential [probably a visco brake (works on the same principles as a torque converter from an automatic transmission)] will spinn the driveshaft up to the same speed as the wheels are turning. As soon as the front driveshaft an diff have the same speed as the wheels, the actuator on the front diff connects the axle shafts to the diff
Auto hubs don't disengage unless you change direction, if you stop they can't free up unless you take the load off them. The front drive shaft always spins wit the diff and axels if the hubs are locked, it can't stop - if it does your diff just exploded.
Will you change the rear diff lock actuator protective cover for a stronger aftermarket cover? Had any problems on your 79 with OEM cover ? cheers great vid.
Thanks to this now understand how the Auto Hubs operate. I find it interesting that Toyota decided to go with that especially since many manufacturers have veered away from Auto and Manual Hubs all together and started to stick with Direct Connection Hubs all the time for a majority of vehicles. I can also agree to an extent on how the Auto Hubs can cause some issues with 4WD if doing some crazy stuff, but I have never had the issue doing a fair amount with the Auto Hubs in my old 93 Pathfinder. Of course I did make the switch to Manual Hubs for fair reasons.
Very comprehensive review. The current hubs are a pain in the arse. Not just for the useless “auto” but also for finding the wheel brace. In my 79 i just had a spanner in the glove box 🙄
Just leave them locked all the time - makes no difference to fuel consumption and its actually good for the front diff to be turning over even when not in 4wd.
@@philg2468 That's just wrong. It a) makes a difference in fuel economy, b) you don't have any benefits from turning the front diff all the time and c) you increase wear on your front driveline
@@philg2468 also if you leave them locked in all the time why would you even put your transfer case in 2H. At this point you could just drive in 4H all the time
@@Harry_Gersack Let me explain. a) I own a Troopy and have measured the fuel consumption every tank since I owned it and also with a scangauge - it might be 0.1 L/100k different with hubs locked so realistically no difference. b and c) - bearings need to be rolling to stay in good condition. With Landcruiser front diffs, if you have hubs unlocked all the time and do corrugated roads you'll get brinelling and shorten the life.
Hi , if the front is left on lock all the time , will it be like the Prado system and will it increase the fuel consumption to about 12 litres in town like the Prado ? Thank you for the comparison. Few years back I commented that Toyota should drop the SR5 and fit an 2.8 with auto plus fix the track differences , It looks that they at least done 2 of them. The Prado is getting hi tech. the 70 wagon is better for add-on. I rekon that the Prado Hybrid may become the " Range Rover" for the up market environmental conscious Prado Customers.
The whole hub/4 wheel drive and the settings seems like you have to read the manual 10 times. Why didn't they do full 4 wheel drive all the time with automatic locks engaging like Land Rover does for their cars?
So let me get this right. Toyota fits auto freewheeling hubs so when someone selects 4hi on the move which 4hi has been like since the dinosaurs, owner of said vehicle destroys their driveline? That is some weird engineering? Is not the hub the last point in the drive line to detect power coming to the front? So once all the rest of the driveline is in 4hi the hub just simply locks , so at worst you will destroy your auto hubs? Forgive and correct my ignorance.
all auto hubs are weaker than manual hubs, this has been known for at least 40 years. why toyota would use them now boggles the mind. the first thing i'd do is chuck them in the bin and fit manual hubs.
Yes. But you need to change the Spindle Hub, and go back to the older style Bearing Retainers. Plus have the manual locking hubs. Using genuine parts probably $2k+. Its not really worth it. Just leave them in lock. If you think you need 4WD that much.
Interesting - so you can't engage 4wd on the fly - even if the hubs were locked because you have to knock the transmission out of drive and put it into neutral before it will go into 4wd. Thats a downside.
Auto hubs in my old GQ engaged “automatically” on applied rotational force after 4WD being selected, such rotational force coming via the driveshaft/axle. It remained engaged as long as the vehicle was in 4WD. Disengaged the driveline/axle only after selecting 2WD and reversing a metre or so. Explained to me by a Nissan workshop technician. Worked faultlessly and well. Don’t think I ever locked hubs. Handled beach and mountain work without difficulty. I assume the GU would be the same. They look identical. Maybe Toyotas are different though.
I agree 100% I never had any issues with the auto hubs in my GU Patrol either. These hubs are no different, they are manufactured by a hub manufacturer not Toyota themselves. I always stopped to engage 4WD when in auto as I would have done were they normal hubs in unlock. If I wanted to do “serious” 4WDing like a recovery for example etc I always locked them in.
That's right buddy, that's the way auto hubs work. On my second gen pajero the hubs are auto only, you can't even lock them manually. Never had a problem in 250k km. And that thing gets worked hard, I use it for logging, pulling whole ass trees in low range
I have an Isuzu MU-X. the downhill assist works a treat. BUT. when towing a trailer offroad the trailer doesn't get a brake signal. so, it overloads the tow vehicle. a communication system is required for the electric trailer braking system. THIS hasn't been invited yet.
Kinda why I like the Hilux A.D.D system as you simply can’t get it wrong lol unless water gets into the actuators then it’s toast.. but who ever goes into water to cause that 😂
This is wrong. If you have auto locking hubs and have it in 4H then all four wheels are being driven. If you then switch to 2H while moving it will disconnect in the transfer case and it will be just like it is in 4H with the hubs in the lock position until you stop and reverse... if your going to post an educational video at least get it right...
I suggest having a read of the manual, it states you should not switch from 2H to 4H on the fly while in Autohub mode. I even checked with an engineer I know from Toyota why this is the case and what could happen if it was to be attempted. I trust these two sources more than a RU-vid comment suggesting otherwise.
The main reason why front hub lockers exist is to avoid unnecessary spin and wear of a front axel and a driveshaft when one is not in need of 4WD. Therefore, if you are cruising down the gravel road (and are not in need of 4WD) you don't want to have your (front) hubs locked, to begin with. And this new arrangement is way more convenient, because one can put the vehicle in 4WD by simply pulling the lever (and an inconvenience of having to (almost) stop the vehicle in order to do so outweighs all the wear and tear of having the hubs locked without using 4WD). Of course things go wrong sometimes and electronics (or what not) etc fail to lock the hubs automatically, but that's why there is a manual lock option too on this gorgeous car. Great videos btw and thank you so much! A big fan!
Te paso un dato , en las Hilux 2.8 muchas veces ni entran las 4x4 largas ni la reductora y queda parpadeando o simplemente no da y lo que muchos no saben... Es q apagas el vehículo con la palanca o botón en 4x4, esperas 5segundos y vuelves a encender la Hilux CN la perilla en los range y al encender sigue parpadeando pero ya enganchado em 4x4 , es un truco q enseñe a varios que más de 1 año venían sin 4x4 y sin tiempo de revisarlo, no siempre funciona pero en más del 90% de las veces, de hecho una Hilux que a diario usaba el 4x4 ... Anduvo así casi todo un año , solo apagando la en 4x4 y encendiendola enganchaba
I love 2nd start. must have for auto low range. DAC is good if you have one of Toyota's full time 4WD systems and you haven't locked your center, it makes sure the fronts aren't doing all the work and puts the rear brakes back to work on steep hills. In a part time, its a useless feature. I wish my 80 had ATRAC. There are times I would love to have the rear locked but leave the front to the computers for steering.
Interesting i bet that most people would think that when the hubs are in Auto mode that it would be identical to what most people know as auto hubs in nearly every modern 4wd.
Did you not do economics at school? Basic law of supply and demand. Toyota can charge pretty much what they like for these as there is such high demand for them
I would much rather not have auto hubs at all. For me, the extra hassle and complexity is not worth the savings in fuel. Plus they're a bit of a weak point from what iv'e seen.
Another good video Ronny! Johnno has done a good jobs with the "jump to" buttons on the right hand side of the screen - very handy indeed, especially when you want to go back to a section for a second look. I too have auto hubs on my 2021 Troopy, but am seriously thinking about installing a manual hub conversion kit from Terrain Tamer. What other performance mods are you considering for your Troopy or 76?
These new vehicle designs seems to be following the latest trend of other manufactures with regards to tech, and then it becomes way over designed & complicated. I agree with you, the old school very stupid and very simple way of engaging 4x4 / wheel drive is more solid both mechanically for the vehicle and also ' more fool proof ' for the end users. Very well explained there Ron and thanks for your awesome content. Wish I had more time on my hands to watch all your episodes. 😎💪
Literally nobody could tell the automatic hubs are bad because the vehicle is available for not even half a year. Yet everybody yells 'they changed something so it's gotta be bad!' All this because toyota introduces features that have been on the market for literally 30 years. I think we should appreciate that in the current day there still is a manufacturer that produces proper 4x4s. And that's coming from a Mitsubishi driver who hasn't owned a single Toyota in his life
@@Harry_Gersackgreat point you are making. As you say, have been on the market for only 6 months, almost. Give the vehicle population some time to increase and watch how many breakdowns there are due to the ' new technology' used incorrectly. There is a saying, less is more, which I think can be used in this case. Why not simply have it ' on or off ' , or engaged / disengaged. Maybe Toyota's last that long cause they are built simpler, hence they are so popular. (Less complicated & technology, less to go wrong down the line.) But, for different folks, it is different strokes in the world. I just feel the simpler systems, like Ronny showed as an example in his video, does the same job, but without the possibility of destroying the components in the process if not done correctly. By the way, it is called an opinion in writing, nobody was yelling anything to no one. 😜
QUESTION: If I engage 4L with the front hubs disconnected (in the old system), I get low range in the rear axle but am I still loosing half the power to the front driveline because it's disconnected? And if so, am I getting more power to the rear wheels in low range than I would in 2H?
No, all the torque is available at the rear axle because in 4L the center diff is locked. You're never "losing half the power". Doesn't matter if you're in 2H, 4H, 4HLC or 4L.
@@Harry_Gersack If the centre diff is locked in 4L, as it is also in 4H with the land cruiser (and hilux), doesn't that mean that it is locked to distribute 50% of the power to both axles whether or not the front hubs are locked?
Absolute POS. I don’t care if it tows up a hill with a 3tonne caravan in a previous vid. Good tuff trucks has gotta have a 4.2ltr turbo like the HDJ79 with a 18G & 25psi plus or a the V8 diesel 79.. I bought my 04 GU Patrol coil cab brand new & gotta 18G fitted up within 1-2 weeks & it’s been on 25psi for 407K’s & it’s never once let me down or got hot as out here in Bourke Nsw summer days are 47deg even a few 50deg. & it’s got 4 coils & rear disc brakes. Like just Look 👀 at nearly every twin cab we see on the road & cost $75K plus & they come with IFS, rear leaf springs & crap dumb brakes & to cut corners even more to save themselves money they are all made in Thailand instead of Japan & people 🐑 🐑 🐑 🐑 just keep on buying them 😳?.. But anyway who’d want a 2.8ltr 4cyl big heavy Landcruiser & once ya load up the little 4cyl with all the gear lets see how it goes & all the electronic computers. Give me a dirty old technology Japanese diesel Td42ti to work on any day & gearboxes & diffs are Tuff. Let’s see this baby cruiser & how reliable they are. Whistlindiesel should buy one & test it’s durability
@@Corey-pd3mi LOL 😂 You obviously own a twin cab with IFS, rear leaf springs & dumb brakes or ya gonna or have bought this POS 2.8ltr cruiser BHAAAAAAAAAA. You kinda people make me laugh 🤡🤡
@@triggerhappy8872each car has its purpose and does certain things better then others whilst simultaneously performing poorly in other aspects, you always have trade offs, my ute would handle significantly better then yours and run laps around it while using less fuel on the same note yours would absolutely destroy mine offroad and be easier to service, it all comes down to what you need the car to do for you and your individual needs
I can see auto mode useful for snow and icy conditions on road. Can be 2wd on dry road and when you hit an icy/snowy section can stop, put in 4wd without having to get out.
@@DanVal4 If you Know Your going to Encounter Snow and Icy Conditions, You can Always Lock Your Hubs Prior to Departure. And You have to take into Account that the Hubs Aren’t as Strong (the Pins Don’t Fully Engage) in Auto Mode as to When Their Locked (Pins Fully Engaged)
@@DMSVICAU Not all vehicles have a center differential. With those you can't use 4wd on a 'closed surface' (meaning solid ground, especially asphalt). You can only put it in 4wd when you're on loose ground (gravel, snow, sand, mud, ......)
If they are anything like the isuzus, you can probably just fit the old ones back on. To my knowledge the auto part of the hub is a mechanical system. So no input or detection from the rest of the car, so it won't know or care that you switched the hubs.
Good Video as always Ronny. Still I wonder what exactly is wrong with the downhill assist. I assume it's not slow enough?? And again, I don't wanna be a hater but you're too worried about the auto-locking hubs. First of all they don't disengage by simply stopping. And it doesn't matter if you're in 4H or 4L. It also doesn't matter if you're driving in 4H for a long time. There are many vehicles with auto locking hubs and they work absolutely fine. My second gen pajero has auto only hubs, you can't even engange them manually. And I've never had a problem with them in 250k. And please don't tell people to use them when they're already stuck, that's what might lead to destruction. (Although I've made that mistake often enough and haven't managed to destroy them) The problem here is: When you're already stuck and then put it in 4wd you have a brief moment where the whole driveline is spinning, but the front wheels are standing still until the hubs engage. When they engage you get a shock load because you're connecting a spinning driveline to not-spinning front wheels. That alone isn't a huge problem. The problem is that most people don't think about this and instantly hit the gas pedal when they put it in 4wd. The right technique is to let of the brake slowly (or the clutch if you're in a manual) the back wheels will start spinning and after they've slipped a quarter to a half rotation you will feel a massive clonk as the front hubs engange. After they engaged you're free to floor it. Obviously the right thing to do is to put it in 4wd if you think you might get stuck, but sometimes things don't work out like one thought they would. Another thing I already commented under the last video: I think it's not fair that you're only giving the automatic hubs shit but don't tell any benefits: 1.Reduced wear on the front driveline 2.Better fuel economy 3. You don't have to get out of the car to put it in 4wd Again I don't wanna hate on you and I love your content but as a mechanic, if I see sth that is technically not quite right I have to correct it
