How THE OLD REPUBLIC Ruined KOTOR 2 

Does my voice sound weird in this? ANYWAY, please let me know what you think of this unscripted video! We're looking to obtain Discord Partnership for the channel, so if you haven't yet be sure to come and join my server now! - discord.gg/BdpmBtx -

"I would have killed the galaxy to preserve you. I would have let the galaxy die. You are more rare than you know, and what you have taught yourself must not be allowed to die." -Kreia to the Exile What a waste of a compelling character.

Meetra defeats 3 sith lords. I haven't played TOR, but it annoyed me in Revan how she was treated as insignificant. She was, legit, one of the most powerful people in the galaxy at that point.

So glad someone is talking about how important the Exile is in the KOTOR era. It breaks my heart how she was treated in Swtor

Even Bastila has a bigger influence on the story than the exile in the new game..

THIS is why we needed KOTOR III, so we could have properly finished the story laid out by KOTOR 1 and 2 and got to see the absolute awesomeness Obsidian had in store for us with their version of the Unknown Regions Sith Order.

KOTOR 2 made me love Revan, hearing his story from different characters. It made KOTOR 1s plot twist even more impactful.

Glad someone finally said it. KOTOR 2 was one of the best and most unique Star wars stories ever. And the fact that TOR ignored this really took away from the game.

KOTOR 2 was the most ambitious RPG of the 2000s. It's a shame they never finished it. Damn those stupid christmas deadlines.

Even without the establishment of Revan's character, Exile herself was mistreated as hell. She was capable of forming Force bonds more easily and powerfully, while affected by it more significantly. She had been taught by the person who questions The Force so much that decides to kill it to free the galaxy. She fought against the Sith Lords that no Jedi had faced- pure evil, driven by pure and basic desire, so powerful and dangerous that manipulates others easily, never dies or consumes a hall planet. She brought the Jedi Order from the brink of destruction(and subtley the galaxy) and rebulit it while trying to fix the flaw of the old. She deserved better.

I liked Star Wars as a medium before i played KOTOR 2 when it came out, but that game made me fall in love with the universe to the point where it's seeped into my very personality. KOTOR 2 is a masterpiece and it's a damn shame that it released in an unfinished state.

It's as if you reached into my brain. Yes, absolutely. Meetra becomes a sidekick, every other KOTOR 2 character becomes forgotten and the entire KOTOR 2 story is quietly brushed aside. When you read the Revan book, it's very obvious that Drew Karpyshyn never played KOTOR 2 and was only working on cliffnotes. He simply didn't care, perhaps because KOTOR 2 was made by a different studio and by different writers. That same attitude permeated SWTOR and the story (Revan's story) suffered as a result. The rub is that you are entirely right about the dual protagonist thing. Revan and Meetra are both wonderful characters in their own right, but if thrown at each other properly (romantically or otherwise), they become something extraordinary. Or rather, they would have become something extraordinary. It's an incredible waste.

Honestly, I couldn't agree more. Meetra is probably my favorite character in star wars and Idk if anyone here ever watched spacedock but he said something I've always felt. Kotor 2 is kinda better than the franchise its apart of. Not that deconstructions are going off the beaten path stories are always better than the heroes journey foundational types, its just that kotor 2 really shaped for me what the force actually was and the characters' connections to it in a way nothing else ever did, and Meetra is obviously at the center of that. Super agree that they tossed her aside for TOR. When i felt kotor 2 was pushing her on a trajectory for a more satisfying story than just she dies.

I love Kotor 1/2 & The Old Republic but I do wish they kept Revan and Meetra out of Swtor.

I enjoyed my time in TOR, but the way that Bioware treated the Exile in that game was absolutely disgraceful. I strongly got the impression that Bioware were jealous that Obsidian created such a great character, companions and story, and this is why they did what they did.

Literally turned Meetra is into Revan’s sidekick with a jealous crush😂😂😂

I really hope the Surik gets a better end in canon, IF she is ever canonized or expanded upon, which I doubt the more I think about it.

The ONLY thing I disagree with in this video is the decision to make Vitiate the reason for Revan's fall being less important than it actually is. It's a significant alteration and it really undermines Revan's agency and the impact of his sacrifice. It's the difference between a sacrifice and a fall. Revan chose his path to make the Republic stronger, to prepare. Forcing him into that role takes away from that. Otherwise really enjoyed the video, would love a more detailed one. KotOR 2 really doesnt get the recognition it deserves, especially being the basis for Revan as we know him and as how he is interpreted by fans, especially avid fans, of his character. Subbed

Thank you. Meetra Surik needs more love.

It’s also interesting how the Jedi council is so forgiving, even welcoming you might say- of Revan, even if only using him towards their own ends; While the exile is outright condemned and endlessly judged for simply doing what she thought was right and following Revan to take the fight to the Mandalorians.

Kotor 2 was the first one I played, so when I played the first one the twist actually blew me away. Having the context of the mandalorian wars, revenge, etc. it made this series one of my all time favorites

Kreia to Jedi exile- "I would have killed the galaxy to preserve you" Revan to Jedi exile- "Nice knowing ya!" *stab*

It was chris avellones design for exiles part in all the conflicts that they had taken part in for to have been overshadowed and forgotten by history thus cannon would have been that they could have either been male or female, in essence just a forgotten sacrifice in endless wars that galaxy continues to endure due to forces existance and of course kreias hope that galaxy could rid itself of force to also have died whit exiles memory. The meetra surik cannon actually came from outside kotor 2 design team and considering how they dragged the charachter trough the mud in revan novel and swtor, personally i prefer original intent. Also as avellone was laying ground work for kotor 3 that would have had the plot that galaxy is actually much larger than republic lets the public know, as if galaxy would know that the galaxy they know is mearly around one tenth of the whole would lead to expansion and whit jedi being their primary way of policing galaxy and jedi of course being unsuited to solve the political, economic, Imegration and population control disasters that they are usually called to solve, thus senate at some point decidead to encourage the dogma that the known galaxy is the whole galaxy, as adding more planets to the republic would only fracture republic further. Of course what would have dominated the rest of the galaxy was supposed to be the expansionist sith empire ruled by council of sith that in their lifetimes had achived sith ideal of godhood, each in their own way. Revan would have met this empire of gods when hunting for the reson that sparked mandalorian neo crusades, forgotten it due to jedi council brainwashing, but regained enogh of his memory after kotor 1 and left to confront this threath. Apperantly revan would have been willing to destroy this threath at any cost and when exile would reach him they would have become crucial to revans plans. Story was supposed to explore the sith as deeply as kotor 2 explored the failings of the jedi, also it was supposed to bring to conclusion what avellone started whit kreia character and the idea that the force is a antaganistic force in the galaxy. Ending fight would have been at the end of the galaxy optional against revan, if player had chosen that the exile had sacrificed enogh and allowed exile to return to galaxy to start a life of peace in assumable galaxy where force had been killed of in revans schemes. Its honestly a shame that we got mmo i insteed.

The sith empire in kotor 2 seemed like such an enigmatic and mysterious entity powerful beyond our belief and anything that's come before The hype was unreal I miss kotor and I wish they made a third

In Kotor 1, you see Revan as the one who changes everything around him/her. In Kotor 2, he is like a legendary... legend. The Exile becomes the hero/villain who changes everything around him/her (I do not care about their sexuality/genders for this discussion). It would have been lovely to have a Kotor 3 where you see the Exile having the same impact/image, like how Revan had in Kotor 1. Yes, they are different, but the Exile has his/her own struggles and achievements. I hate the Revan novel. It butchered the awesomeness established in Kotor 2. As for SWTOR, I wish it was singleplayer. The stories and quests there are brilliant, but I want to play them without a jackass messing my gameplay. Maybe the Emperor and Revan plots in SWTOR are something I could have lived without in my life. I also did not like how they treated the Exile in SWTOR. Revan created bonds that lasted many years, and so did the Exile by the end of Kotor 2.

I agree that the problem with SWTOR is that Meetra Surrik becomes barely an afterthought...which does as you've said, bastardized The Jedi exile when she did so much for th ed galaxy in her own right in her Heroine 's Journey.

KOTOR 2 cemented Revan's legacy and brilliance in the era of the Old Republic. While the first game may have made him, KOTOR 2 defined who he truly was. A long with creating one of the best character's ever written in SW history, Kreia. The relationship between Kreia and The Exile is on another level. So many little nuances and lessons to learn, not just in the game but perhaps in real life too. The fact that somebody so broken in The Exile could come and help so many around her find purpose & better their lives absolutely touched me. That their is redemption for our actions, that the right man in the wrong places can make all the difference, that seeing absolute power and shunning it was TRUE power... My respect for the character of The Exile was elevated beyond anything else in the SW universe. I can honestly say that my life & the person I am today was greatly shaped by this ''Masterpiece'' & it's one I shall never, ever forget.

Kotor 2 is literally my favorite Star Wars story and has some of my favorite characters. Also, I 100% agree that Kotor 2 actually fleshes out the story of Revan and him as a character.

Finally someone who sees the importance of meetra.

You just summarized all that me and my friend have been saying about the Exile post Kotor 2! I think the author of the Revan book was also very involved in the scenario of Kotor 1 and SWTOR, and either they didn't play Kotor 2 either they got so offended by Chris Avellone and his team's work that they decided to erase it. And it's sad to see that the conclusion of Kotor 2 and the new Jedi Order are doomed to failure in the 300 years before SWTOR, to the point where no one remembers who the Exile was. It's great to see people are still doing KOTOR related content, thank you so much !

Dope video and I totally agree. Revan's mystique and the greatness of the KOTOR saga is established by KOTOR 2, and how it builds up and adds to the lore and story of the first game, fleshing it out more and considering the consequences of it. The Revan novel first started the undermining of KOTOR 2's story and build up, which was fully realized in SWTOR, because the novel was just a swtor tie in. I hated how it ignored KOTOR 2's story, and made the Exile a boring, generic Jedi character who is eliminated in a lame way. It's such a damn shame. KOTOR 2 is my favorite game of all time, and KOTOR is second, and all the great lore established in those two games was wasted by SWTOR. I still hold out hope we can get the KOTOR 3 obsidian was working on, the KOTOR games, and the exile and Revan, deserve a conclusion to their stories.

SWTOR was my first introduction to the EU. I love the game. It was a long time after that that i learned about KOTOR games. And i loved these games as well. As someone who loves SWTOR...i have to say that it is indeed a poor continuation of KOTOR 2. It has great World Building, well written stories and characters and i loved the nods it made to KOTOR. However...bringing Revan and Meetra themselves in the game....was the biggest story telling mistake the game has ever made. To this day i do not like how SWTOR used these 2. It was a greedy marketing move and a very bad one. I love SWTOR, will support it but as a loyal fan i will point out its biggest flaw.

I've always loved KOTOR2 better, but largely due to mechanics and the more organic story flow. But Revan never "fell" to the Dark Side. It was originally canon that he CHOSE the Dark Side.

This is a common myth, the Revan novel by Drew Karpyshyn (the writer of KOTOR 1) was what destroyed Revan's and Meetra's characters, not SWTOR. SWTOR tried to *salvage* it. And Meetra Surik's naming and gender were coined in Star Wars Insider, not SWTOR.

While I doubt Bioware will ever acknowledge it, I have this suspicion that one reason why the Exile was basically thrown under the bus in the Revan novel and the SWTOR story (at least she came back for Echoes of Oblivion), is because she is not a character of Bioware origin. KOTOR 2 wasn't developed by Bioware, but was given to Obsidian because Bioware was too busy with developing their own IPs, Dragon Age and Mass Effect. I do not know if there is an issue of royalties or if it is something as simple as arrogance on Bioware's part that made them not want to devote any time to the Exile, or references to KOTOR 2 in general. KOTOR 1 was a brilliant game, but I stand by saying that KOTOR 2, because of its writing, surpassed it by a long shot. To think this game was developed in less than a year, and still be so good (although you have to bring back a lot of content via mods), I shudder to think what KOTOR 2 could have been had it been given the proper development time.

Thanks for opening my eyes about this. This is a really needed video about KOTOR 2, usually everyone bashes it but don't realize how much of an impact it had. I do love SWTOR and I also did recognize the lack of representation of the exile in it but I didnt think to much on it. Glad you made this video!

The Hero's Journey is a Plot Development Framework. The Heroine's Journey is a Character Development Framework.

Now imagine if "The Entity" from the Sith Warrior story was confirmed as Kreia's ghost...

The Exile being a loyal sidekick to Revan is a total misunderstanding of Kotor 2. There are a lot of implications in the game that the Exile never really got along well with Revan or at the very least didn't know him well. There's the fact that the Exile was the only Jedi under Revan who came back instead of following him, then whenever Kreia talks about Revan, there's never really an option that allows you to say, "hey, I know all of that." The impression we get is that the Exile is learning more about Revan just as we are learning about Revan. When the Exile expresses the reasons for why he fought the Mandalorians, there are no options for you to say that you joined the Mandalorian wars out of loyalty to Revan, matter of fact, the person who made that pitch to the Exile was Malak not Revan. Then the final piece of evidence comes from HK 47 where he explains how Malachor V wasn't really about defeating the Mandalorians, but instead was Revan's way to use the Mass Shadow Generator to break or kill the Jedi who weren't fully loyal to him. The Jedi who were sent there were those that Revan deemed to be disloyal and untrustworthy, and it just so happens that the person leading them is the Exile.

Agreed on all points. My only appreciation of the Revan novel is the fact that it provided a canonical name for the Exile, and confirmed that she became recogized as a Jedi Master.

Honestly what a well thought out and well written video. No conjecture, no hyperbole, no shade throwing and bashing of TOR just an open analysis of how TOR impacted the Kotor Story and its perception. I've always thought that the character of Revan is basically just a reflection of the player in Kotor 1, not until Kotor 2 is their actions and choices given meaning and their character context. Kotor 1 lay the seeds of the character, their look, mysteriousness, legendary status and that they may not truly belong to neither the light nor dark. Kotor 2 expands on every single one of those aspects, either by experiencing the aftermath the events Revan was vital to or from 1st, 2nd or even 3rd hand accounts of their antics or even a look at Revan's thought process through Kreia. Hell Kotor 2 is responsible for Revan even having his now trademark purple lightsaber (and duel wielding sabers) since his apparition on Korriban is the first time he ever wielded one.

Isn’t that the entire point of Her story to do good without expecting glory or fame

Kotor II was like the empire strikes back of the Kotor series. I can't imagine what a proper third game would have been like, I'd have definitely coughed $60 on that..

11:28: Ah, the Manaan theme. So soothing.

Hit the nail on the head. Rvan is a great character. But that's only because of Kotor 2. But even so, the Exile, and what she represented, is infinitely more consequential to the entire Star Wars universe. Also I think you've done videos like this before and I told you this already. This felt scripted. You're really good at this.

KOTOR 1 and 2 are games that serve a story, SWTOR is a game served by its story. Unfortunately characters being snubbed is something that predates the Disney era. Not to the same degree, but it's there nonetheless. RIP Meetra Surik.

This video is three years old, but still long overdue. My first KotOR game was TSL, and I absolutely loved the atmosphere of looming darkness. Everywhere you went, there was tension, unease, pain. It was like if you're in The Empire Strikes Back, right after it ended, where the bad guys won and you're just trying to salvage what you can. You have complex dialogue choices, can negotiate with bad guys, you're shown the SW world from the inside, with all the technobabble and things. It's great. Yes, the game was unfinished, but I don't blame Obsidian for it, it did a hell of a job anyhow. A lot of people give Avellone flack for his writing, but in this game, he hit it out of the park. The Jedi and the Sith, after all, are, first and foremost, religious orders, so all the religious references and messianic narratives made perfect sense (less so in Fallout New Vegas, sorry fanboys). And all the greys were just chef's kiss! Now, when I played KotOR1, I enjoyed it, but it felt kinda cheezy. It was mostly a typical story about a guy saving the world from some evil. You keep hearing stories about that one badass that changed the Galaxy years ago, and then - whoops! - you are that guy, just have amnesia. I don't know, maybe I watch too many movies, but this felt tired to me. I was so excited about the Revan novel when it came out, but when I got to actually read it, my reaction was "Da fuck did I just read?!?". Sure, Revan was the center figure, but the Exile (I hate the novel so much, I won't even accept 'Meetra Surik'; also, the Exile was established as canonically female even before the novel) was done really dirty in it. She was nerfed into the ground, and save for being a bit more savvy in going undercover, she was a joke. Her death was especially unceremoniously bad, when you take into account that she had a very strong sense of precognition that would have warned her about whats-his-face's backstabbing. I have to somewhat disagree with your point about TOR being littered with references to Revan, but not the Exile. Narratively it makes sense: Revan was this larger-than-life character, both during the Mandalorian Wars, and later during and after the Jedi Civil War. For the Exile, though, it's different: yes, she was one of Revan's top lieutenants during the Mandalorian Wars, but she left Republic space after the Wars had ended; she cut herself off from the Force, and when she returned, her impact on the Galaxy would be much more subtle. Peragus? Yes, it got blown up, but who knows if it was really her? Just the TSF and Atris, and even they couldn't say for certain if it was her or someone else (because they didn't know about the Sith). Yes, she helped keep Telos's Citadel Station afloat, yes, she fought Nihilus's invasion of Telos, and the civil war on Onderon, but otherwise, her actions were much smaller in scale. Nar Shadaa? Korriban? Nothing's really changed there. Dantooine? Sure, she prevented a coup, but, again, nothing's really changed. It's a backwater planet on the Outer Rim, and the conflict affected a small settlement. So, who cares? Other than G0-T0, I mean. She saved a lot of people, the Republic, and the Jedi, but she did so on a localized scale, without flash and fanfares. Her path was much more personal than Revan's, so while she is a Hero in her own right, she'd definitely not get cults and artifacts. To most people, the situation just fixed itself. On the other hand, she _should have_ gotten a space-ship or station named after her, maybe a memorial plaque or statue on Telos, Dantooine, Onderon... (don't remember if these are even featured in the game) But then, to the Republic she's just another Jedi. All in all, I agree with your points. BioWare was just petty that Obsidian wrote a much more compelling story, with a much more interesting protagonist, so it deliberately downplayed the Exile's significance, and pretty much nuked TSL out of the lore. TOR is, after all, a BioWare title, as was KotOR1.

100% agree with this, especially the commentary about the Exile's story truly establishing Revan's legacy beyond player projection. Part of why I loved kotor 2 so much was that no matter how you played Revan in the first game, light or dark, the far-reaching consequences of Revan's actions are undeniable, which Kreia emphasizes several times. The Jedi Exile returned to the Council to be judged for her actions where Revan never truly faces any such consequences despite having been a major catalyst in the events of both games and beyond, and to have the Exile die like she did makes Revan's lasting legacy almost feel undeserved. Especially when, as you said, the Exile is credited with rebuilding the Jedi Order and actually cleaning up Revan's messes and is never given any credit for it, not even a measly reference other than acting as a prop for Revan. Making her canonically female was great when I heard the news, but to see her character go on to only fangirl over Revan and then unceremoniously die without having been treated as the true co-protagonist she is, it also cheapens her character overall. Like oh, *of course* a female Exile would have been in love with Revan and dropped literally everything she had going on (which was just her cleaning up after the Mandalorian and Jedi Civil Wars, which if anything should be Revan's responsibility) to sacrifice everything she had regained during the course of kotor 2 to again blindly follow Revan to the ends of the galaxy and for what? I remember the nature of Revan being the heart of the Force and the Exile the wound in the Force being a point of great discussion on the old kotor forums when we all still hoped a kotor 3 was in the works, and looking back a lot of the ideas tossed around there were worlds ahead of what we got with the Revan novel and the SWTOR dlcs. Not to mention, that kotor 2 concepts overall were pretty cool and I'll always be disappointed that they were rarely ever mentioned or referenced again (namely Kreia, who is by far one of my favorite SW characters of all time, or even the mere concepts of Eldritch horror level Sith, Nihilus and Sion - honestly the entire Sith Triumvirate paired with Kreia's philosophy re: the Force itself would be so fascinating to explore but it doesn't seem like SW wants to go in this sort of direction again...). Aside from that, I also think it's a weird move to canonize characters that were previously customizable, because you're never going to be able to create a version that satisfies each player's very personal experience of either games, ultimately leading to some dissatisfaction no matter what. The fact that they made canon Revan kind of boring IMO but to have also effectively erased the themes established in the second game and bastardized the Jedi Exile as a character completely, no matter how you played that character, will always leave a bad taste in my mouth. I actually started writing a fix-it fic out of spite for what they did with the "canon" versions of these characters but only so far as to give my version of the Exile some justice, at least before Disney tries their hand at it which media outlets constantly infer with increasingly click-baity articles😅

All we can do is pray that the new Kotor Remake does well enough to warrant a Kotor II remake, and then, finally we shall have our rev- cough - wrong game. A chance at Kotor III as it should of been to retcon the Revan novel and swtor's grandiose mistakes in the handling of these characters

I love KOTOR2 and it's my favorite of the two games, but I think you're overlooking a key point of the two. Meetra Surik's story was personal and so her impacts were also smaller and more personal. There would be pockets of folks who might remember her, but in the overall scheme of the galactic narrative she didn't have a huge impact. She was Revan's general and loyal right hand but not much more. Even at the end of KOTOR2 she leaves to follow him which is a point you left out of this video. She chose to follow him before the book or swtor was made, so they only reflect what happened in KOTOR2. And if you ever played the KOTOR2 TSLRP then you would know this even more. As someone who also had the toolset for the game, I got to see all of the cut content that didn't make it into the game, and as Kreia tells Meetra, she would be forgotten to time. This was the prophecy, so swtor in essence is fulfilling Kreia's prophecy regarding Meetra.

Really great video, yes, TOR and the book really did the Exile dirty, but I really do feel what TOR and the book did to Revan was a betrayal of the character established in KOTOR 2. They handled two great characters with all the subtlety of a sledge hammer and as you pointed out, totally overlooked the companions from KOTOR 2, these are the "Lost Jedi" that rebuilt the Jedi Order, they are important! Yet not a peep about them...such a shame.

I've said it before... after all the sith lords Meetra defeated and future Jedi she trained... she's finally done in by bad/lazy writing. I've more or less pretended everything after the second game did not happen.

The lack of Reven in Kotor 1 was what struck me when I first played it. After hearing and reading all the Revan hype I thought he was going to be a central character and it did confuse when I played. None the less the established character of Revan is great but the Excile has an amazing character arc which is very underrated, perhaps because of swtor.

The simple difference: Obsidian took the task of understanding what BioWare was doing. But BioWare never tried to see what Obsidian did, only taking small pieces that liked the fans.

When I first entered SWTOR 9 years ago (I joined when the game went F2P), the burning question in my mind was regarding what happened to Meetra, Atton, Mira, Bao-Dur, T3, Canderous (Mandalore the Preserver), Mical (Disciple), Brianna Kae (Handmaiden), Visas, and HK-47. I was disappointed to find out they were not even mentioned. I am curious to find out if Darth Mar is a descendant of Visas, but even that is a footnote. I have discovered two gathering missions that reference Master Mical, and Bao-Dur; which is still a footnote to their impact. When I read "Revan," I learned how T3 was destroyed, and how Meetra died and expected more out of that. Yet she remained as a ghost for 300 years to encourage and give Revan strength from the force to sustain him during his captivity. On Corellia the entire crew of the Ebon Hawk during KOTOR 1, are honored with statues. The crew of the Ebon Hawk in KOTOR 2 are not honored in that way. Thank you for this video.

The way the book sidelined other fun characters like Juhani, Jolee, Misson and Zalbaar and then killed T3-M4 was just horrible. And HK appears several times in KOTOR and continues going in Legends, but the Exile being killed by Scourge is just plain insulting.

i appreciate the idea of swtor story being set like 300 or something years after the kotor games so there is as much free original story as there can be, but i still think what everyone wanted was a kotor 3

I get the feeling KOTOR 2 was largely ignored because it introduced characters that asked or raised some rather inconvenient questions about the formulaic narrative of Star Wars. So it was safer to just retcon the likes of the Exile, and straight up erase huge troublemakers like Kreia. I recall several years ago there were some people claiming KOTOR 2 had no right to deconstruct Star Wars like it did and that there are some core aspects of the franchise that should never be questioned of examined; which is kind of funny since KOTOR 2 was all about not believing in things blindly and questioning things. Not to mention Revan wouldn't be half as great as he is without the build up and mystery KOTOR 2 gave him.

I know I’m late, but I had to comment on this video. I’ve never played SWTOR and I probably never will. Not because I have any resentment towards it, but because I have shit wifi and can’t play MMO’s at all. Anyway, I do feel like Meetra squandered in SWTOR and tbh, that’s bad for the game as a whole. They clearly didn’t realize what they had. Meetra/The Exile is soooo impactful in the Star Wars universe. She is the reason the Jedi Order survives the “Dark Wars”. By ruining Meetra’s character, the game also brings Revan down as well. They are supposed to be duel protagonists in every sense. If you look at what KOTOR 2 establishes for Revan and what it does for Meetra, you see that they are Yin and Yang. Revan and Meetra need each other. Both are powerful in their own right, but together, they’re unstoppable. Revan, paraphrased from Kreia, is like looking at the heartbeat of the force. Meetra, is like looking at the death of it. Revan is a powerful force sensitive. However Revan is flawed. He doesn’t mind doing the “bad” thing for the right reasons, no matter the aftermath of his actions. Meetra is different. Like you said, she heals. By the end of KOTOR 2, one can assume Meetra puts the aftermath into thought before making an action. A gripe I have is that Meetra is made to look weak when she is the kryptonite to any force user. How can you defeat Meetra when shes a wound in the force? Not easily I assure you. She gains power through her bonds, which makes everyone else around her stronger as well. Her flaw is that she’s a bit too connected with people, which makes her overly trusting. It’s why Kreia manipulates her, although that could also be boiled down to Kreia’s mastery of manipulation. Either way, Revan and Meetra are both strong leaders, but together they cover for each others flaws. Meetra should be the calm to Revan’s storm. They should be an untouchable team together. However, apparently the SWTOR writers didn’t think so. It’s unfortunate we never got a KOTOR 3. I hope that if the remake of KOTOR is good, they’ll remake and complete the second game. If both games are good, I hope they complete the trilogy with the game we always deserved.

Meetra is my favourite Star Wars character and seeing genuine appreciation for her is good to see. I'm a little surprised though, that you didn't also touch on how the MMO destroyed Darth Nihilus.

Thank you for making this video. I’m old enough to remember when Revan/The Exile’s story was just KOTOR 1+2. We had to wait 7 whole years to find out what happened next and I can’t tell you how disappointed a lot of people were when Bioware announced SWTOR as an MMO. It just didn’t feel like the same universe or the same characters. And don’t get me started on those dumbass books.

Being fair, it might be attempting to be like Final Fantasy Tactics. Revan as Delita, while the Exile becomes a forgotten hero like Ramza. That said even if this were the case, Final Fantasy Tactics still handles it so much better than SWTOR/Revan Novel. Highly recommend that game, especially the PSP port, War of the Lions.

I disagree that KOTOR 1 did not flesh out Revan as a character. You start the game as an amnesiac character, BUT throughout the game you get small snippets about Revan, how great he was when against the wishes of the Jedi Council, he went to war and saved the galaxy from the mandalorians - and how fearsome and terrible he was when he returned as a Dark Lord of the Sith as Darth Revan and brought the Republic to its knees. We learn about the brilliance of his tactics and his charisma. Even former enemies like Canderous the Mandalorian had nothing but awe for Revan. All these fragments of information made the twist such an earth-shattering moment, even more so than the "I am your father" from ESB. Starwars gave us two incredible twists (one with Vader and the other one with Revan) that stay with people and I for one will always remember fondly.

So I know I'm coming to this video way late but this really hit home to me for one really big reason. My first exposure to KOTOR was actually KOTOR 2. I went through it experiencing exactly what you where talking about with how Revan as a character and the legend of the jedi we all know was being told me yet I didn't know who he was, or what the Mandalorian wars where. When I finally went back and played KOTOR and got that experience I was left with a feeling of "is this really the guy KOTOR 2 talked about so much?" Because of that Revan never really clicked with me as he felt like two entirely different people between the man you play and the character KOTOR 2 tells you about. What I did latch on to heavily was the Jedi Exile and Kreia. The former going about using the dark/light side to influence a damaged galaxy all while the ladder seems to tread the middle warning you of making people dependent on your aid or a virus to spread cruelty. It was the first time I felt like Star Wars was actually challenging me to think beyond a simple good/bad dynamic and instead actually think about what actually is good or bad and what light/dark side of the force really is. Simply put I loved how it was presented and I felt the Jedi Exile really should of been the first grandmaster of a new order of jedi who actually adopts ideals of individuality in contrast to the more dogmatic follow the council nature we tend to see. I bought the Reven book because I wanted to know more about what happened to the Exile and sadly the more I read it the more I felt like she wasn't even a part of it and when Scourge killed her at the end I was pissed. I knew that was all I would really get of her and to me she was, or should of been, far more important to the future of the jedi than Revan ever would be.

yes. Yes. YES. YEEEEEEEEEEEES. Thank god this video finally exists

It’s like KOTOR was you in the driver’s seat, doing whatever. KOTOR2 is the perspective of the pedestrian, and the unknown hero in the background

I actually remember back when Kotor 2 came out. The trailers actually made it clear the exile was male. Not that is a massive issue. Just a personal preference, since I played as the Exile as male. Maybe it was a coincidence but when you ask for a random name. They actually gave the last name as Surik. However I made the Exile male and he was known as Dastin Surik for me. But I do agree with the novel. They mistreat a lot of characters that we fell in love with, brushed aside. That book feels more as just something to promote the old Republic. That is a side quest, I was so disappointed. After putting several hours into Kotor 1 & 2. While I do enjoy the Old Republic era. I sort of have to write my own versions of Revan and the Exile for it to make sense for me. But the Exile remains one of my most influential characters in Star Wars.

So, here is my challenge. Re-write the story as you think it should have been handled. Give us what you think should have been done with her.

While I agree that the Exile's portrayal as just another follower of Revan is far from true to her character, I disagree that the focus towards Revan rather than both the Exile and Revan was a bad thing. Revan is the prodigal knight, the face of the Mandalorian wars and the Jedi Civil War. KOTOR 1 portrays a galaxy in total war, and Revan is at the heart of the conflict and by the end of the war, a hero. KOTOR 2 shows a galaxy that is licking it's wounds and recovering from the skirmishes of the first. However, the war taking place in KOTOR 2 is a war in the shadows, with the Exile and the Jedi constantly trying to out-manoeuvre the Sith and vice versa, all while the galaxy is just trying to get by. Nihilus striking at Katarr and the events that lead to it, Goto's conversation with the exile, the Jedi masters in hiding, all demonstrate just how covert this war is. There was no grand celebration at the end of KOTOR 2, there was no hero's triumph. But rather a bittersweet end to a conflict that most people in the galaxy had no idea was taking place. The Exile being forgotten to history and sidelined by Revan reflects this. While the ramifications of her actions are many and are large, like in real life, there are many people who influence the World in great ways, yet we know not their name. The story and history of the Exile are carried by few. Nevertheless, great video, you earned a sub :)

Glory and homage, a jedi seeks not these things.

First my friend I'm sorry I watch this video late and second this is a utterly fantastic and amazing video as always. My thoughts is since you know I don't play the games KOTOR or SWTOR I had to rely on fan made videos to know more about it. I so enjoyed watching your series on Revan you did back in 2017 because there was so much about him that I didn't know. Not to annoy you or anything but I had to rely on KOTOR Movie Saga to know Revan's story arc but his videos only showed Revan's redemption and destroying the Star Forge and not his time in the Mandalorian Wars, he hasn't finished it yet. SWTOR is fascinating but not as great as KOTOR, I've watched a few SWTOR movie videos but what I don't like is when they get to the fighting scenes it's like your playing a video game and not like watching an animated series which I prefer. I've also enjoyed watching SWTORISTA's videos to expand my knowledge on SWTOR but your videos gives me more knowledge of the expanded universe of Star Wars then her. This is why I'm hoping that Disney and Lucasfilms will make a Knights of the Old Republic movie and focus on that timeline in Star Wars that has never been brought to the big screen. Keep up the great work my friend and may the force be with you always

I say more of these, just listening to this was really interesting. I haven't really thought about Meetra's treatment this way before either. Great video my Lord!

KOTOR 2 is and will always be my favorite STAR WARS game.

Both are incredible imo, but that’s just me

I personally think that both KOTOR games are the greatest content ever created in all of Star Wars. I agree that KOTOR follows the traditional Star Wars formula, but despite this it nails its storyline and the Revan revelation is its greatest moment. KOTOR 2 is a magnificent deconstructivist take on traditional Star Wars mythologies and despite it being unfinished originally it takes Star Wars to a whole new level and that's why its story is so well respected to this day. You are absolutely right that Meetra Surik is every bit a pivotal character in the KOTOR universe as Revan is. I never played the SWTOR MMO (mostly because it was a giant money maker for EA with the micro-transactions within the game), but I know enough about the plot of it. I do think that Emperor Vitiate was a terrific villain and I like his connection to Revan and Malak and how he was the Sith influence in the background who firstly tricked the Mandalorians into invading the Republic before the events of KOTOR so he could gauge how strong they were and weaken them before launching his own invasion, then how he corrupted Revan and Malak into using the Star Forge to launch another war on the Republic. I totally agree with how you say both the Revan book and the SWTOR game ruined Meetra Surik. They also ruined the relationship between Revan and Bastila as well. If I were running LucasArts I would have created a KOTOR 3 where a new character is sent into the unknown regions, say 10 years after the events of KOTOR 2 in search of Revan and Meetra Surik, with a mixture of the companions from the first two games and perhaps some new ones, with the goal of finding the two Jedi and taking on and defeating Emperor Vitiate together.

Thank You! Meetra is my favorite Star Wars character of all time and I can’t tell you how much it hurt when she was nothing more but a side kick to Revan and instead of being his equal they make her Revans “student” A empathic great warrior with her own life and legacy was completely ruined by Swotor and instead of letting her be happy with Michael they just killed her off like she was nothing

Both KOTOR are masterpieces

You did a really excellent job and I agree.KOTOR 2 IS MY VERY FAVORITE EVER

They should just decouple KotOR from TOR. The KotOR storyline was just wasted in TOR for commercial purposes, similarly to how the Disney trilogy brought classic characters back for theater attendance, only to have them sacrificed to prop up their new characters and storyline.

KoTOR 1 does not need KoTOR 2 to stand on it’s own as a phenomenal game. Revan has plenty of buildup in the game and you learn much of Revan’s impact through supporting characters and NPCs. KoTOR 2 is a great game in its own right, and SWTOR does screw with the exile’s character, but you need to give the first game the credit it deserves.

Thank youu soo much for making and uploading this masterpiece!! 🖤Seriously it means a lot because since I was a little kid my favourite Star Wars character was and still is Meetra Surik (The exile) buuut sadly not too many people knows about her and who does normally push her importance to the side because for some reason always Revan gets the main attention...

I’m a huge revan fan and I loved the book and mmo even but watching this video gave me a new perspective. It made some points I hadn’t even thought about. I love KOTOR 2 but I’ve never thought about it in this way. Great job, you have changed my perspective on all this.

I totally agree. Kotor 2 was waaaay better. The exile was violeted in the SWTOR but i still love Revan. Revan is my favorite character but i love it because of how well the Kotor 1 and 2 fuse together.

I didn't know they did her so dirty like that... Kotor 2 has always been my favorite the characters were just so cool, hopefully they can do her justice some day.

I also find it strange that a dead spot in the Force goes on to become a Force ghost...

I really like how crushingly bleak and depressing KOTOR 2 is. Pretty much every place you go to or person you speak to is horribly broken in some way and it all ties in with the Exile and the post civil war galaxy. It'd be very easy to make something that dark just boring edgy bullshit but I think it pulled off the atmosphere really well.

Do you think we will get some kotor 2 references in the next update? (As we're going back to the jedi enclave) and how would you of written meetra better for swtor? Perhaps you can make a fan fiction on that idea. Also I love kotor 2. Kreia is a very compelling teacher and her philosophy is something I've taken to heart for real.

Wow this video blew up! I always love your content. Keep up the good work. I always liked both KOTOR 1and 2. Never played the SWTOR MMO. I do want to though. I've listened to the stories and yes I feel like Mitra was just killed off like nothing. Idk sometimes it helps stories and sometimes it doesn't. But she was so powerful. To defeat the Triumphant and then just lose so fast is crazy to me.

I've been saying this for years. I refuse to accept the online gane

LOVED kotor, played from start to finish at least a dozen times over the years. Kotor 2 however, is imo the better game. I loved the story far more than the story of kotor, and the companion characters were, again imo, far superior. So glad it is getting some love from people.

I played swtor and didn't get to appreciate either of the kotor games, but I do know the story. Even though I really like the swtor story for the most part, especially the Jedi Knight, I can agree they really downplayed the importance of the Jedi Exile. Heck the swtor protagonist ends up earning more renown than her. The game did make me understand that she rebuilt the entire Jedi Order, but didn't give much more about her outside of what you said. I would love it if they explored her character more in swtor, but I doubt it since Bio Ware now is completely different to the Bio Ware of kotor and early swtor. Also, I enjoy swtor because it does feel like more of its own story rather than a sequel. The game does take place 300 years after kotor and the main focus is the conflict between the Republic and Empire, though the Eternal Empire stuff was kind of weak. I enjoy and appreciate swtor, but I can understand why many people dislike it story wise.

TLDR, Revan has become the face of the "Knights of the Old Republic" era, but he's a blank slate character in his own game, KOTOR I. Nearly all of his officially recognized character development comes from KOTOR II- a game which the SWTOR MMO has in all other respects seemed to be determined to brush under the rug judging by the lengths it will go to in order to minimize the Exile's impact on the plot. In fact she is supposed to be Revan's equal and direct foil. [Not mentioned in the video, but the fact that Bioware made KOTOR I and SWTOR, while KOTOR II is an Obsidian game probably had something to do with it as well.]

Thanks man for this video!!! I too love Swtor. Played it on and off for 7 years. Got like 90% the OPs NiM achvs, titles, and wings, etc.. But I would trade it all for a proper retelling sequel to Kotor 1 and 2. Your whole video perfectly sums up my feelings about how BW screwed over the Exile as I commented at length in your Jedi Exile Explained video a few years ago. Keep up the great work man!

Hit the nail on the head. Bioware knew that Revan was the selling point and killing off the Exile eliminates competition. Killing off the Exile is okay if its earned, but in the novel it is not. And I completely agree, KOTOR2 turned Revan from an amazing character into a legendary one. It informs the player that Revan knew the consequences of his actions, and that makes the universe feel lived in. Great analysis!

"Every little thing you do in KOTOR 2 is an act of healing"......man we been playing two different versions of KOTOR 2 🤣

where is that footage in the intro from? not the in game footage, but the higher detail animation with Revan in full gear.

You’re ABSOLUTELY correct

KOTOR2 as a heroine's journey sounds cool

Kotor 2 being brushed aside like that is really just Bioware being a petulant child because they noticed someone took their very basic premise and made it into something far more profound than their basic formula.

A very thoughtful and insightful perception. I wonder if this development has anything to do with our world loosing the ability to appreciate nuance and inherent duality of everything. The concept of having to destroy one to rise up the other spreads like an insidious poison throughout our culture. KOTOR 1 and 2 were created before that influence became so prevalent.