I am a Christian, however the cover on that book is a Freemason checkered floor which gives me pause indeed. I assume by now you have read it, your thoughts please.
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. 20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Walking away when either you or the other person is getting agitated is good advice. He forgot to acknowledge that you, the apologist, may become the emotional one. Also, don't make assumptions about what the other person's thinking. He committed the mind-reading fallacy by using the They-just-wanna-sin attribution. We all commit that fallacy sometimes. When you ask your questions to a nonbeliever, don't respond with a counterargument right away. Rather, really be interested in their response. Paraphrase it back. Ask another question. Paraphrase. Repeat. They will be more likely to become open to hearing you out afterwards.
I actually do ask those questions of my wife, particularly what do you mean by that. I might not phrase it exactly like that, but seeing as how my native tongue is American English and hers is Korea, I want to make sure we are talking about the same thing at the same time rather than get into an argument about semantics. She also asks them of me and for 32 years it has worked just fine.
So good. It's true about the new religion. I totally agree. I'm really interested in apologetics as a fairly new Christian. I've come into it just as the gender issues have begun to harm our young people - where the church are saying it's okay to celebrate same sex union here because the church needs to update their image and please the people rather than God!!!. There's a lot of work to be done 🙂
One of the things I admire most about you Frank, is your level of patience for the most hateful, self-defeating people. More often than not, I want to go all Highlander on them, metaphorical sword in hand; it amazes me you don't lose your cool.
That yours is the top comment, is very telling as to who is truly the most hateful group of people... Humans are continually getting smarter though; religion will eventually go the way of the dodo bird.
The best way to have a constructive dialogue with an atheist is to do at least as much listening as you do talking. Greg Koukl's book is full of things that he *thinks* an atheist will say in response to a challenge. If you speak to a nonbeliever and you approach it as a "tactical" discussion, and think you know what they are going to say before they say it, and how you are going to respond in an imaginary conversation that hasn't happened yet, then you are *not* listening. There are numerous examples of things that atheists actually say that are simply not addressed by Koukl. If you want them to listen to you, you have to listen to them. Don't just do it through the lense of somebody who has the same viewpoint as you. Listen to the person you hope will agree with you. You will never give a satisfactory answer to somebody if you are not listening to what their actual issues are. Try and deal with the points they make, not ones an author *thinks* they will make. If you have a good case, you *will* be able to respond.
Challenging a person with a simple logical question does not bring him one foot closer to God. Stop that nonsense apologetics stuff. People can come to God only if they are dragged by God. All this apologetics Philosophy is just for winning an argument.
As an apologist, it's best when communication with non-believers is to NOT place yourself in the position of being the one to answer their questions, but rather first acknowledge them, then be the one asking them questions. When they say, "I don't believe in God." Respond with, "Many people don't, and I can understand why many people wouldn't. But tell me...what is your reason for not believing?" Eventually, isolate what their reason is for being a non-believer. Then, ask them, "What would it take for you to become a believer...what would be your proof?" When they answer, then ask them, "How would you manage the person next to you that is not convinced with your proof?" Game over.
I learned the sales tactics when I sold life insurance. If you are filled with the Holy Ghost you don't need to use sales tactics. More Bible you know and memorize the more effective you'll be at spreading gospel.
What proof would I need, the proof I would require of a god existing, of creation, a first cause, the supernatural, would be evidence that is proven irrefutable, undeniable, indisputable, empirical, unfalsifiable,and conclusive of such. As for gods existing, creation, first cause, the supernatural there is zero evidence ,zilch, none, all arguements for are dead without evidence, there is no explanation without evidence, that is why no one has ever proven any gods to exist, creation to have occured, a first cause, or the supernatural to exist. ( Outside of man's fertile imagination )
Yurp. Nail on head again. All we can do is plant seeds and pray for those we witness to. Yes we may not be popular for speaking Truth but we know in our hearts we got them one step closer to consider Christ, to save a soul. It was no coincidence you were put in someone's life. ❤
It's not that your beliefs are unpopular because they're true, it's the arrogance of insisting those beliefs are true and that people desperately need what you're selling. A lot of atheists act shitty in response to the beliefs of others, but I don't actually care what you believe or why. It's just that you have a serious failing when you can't acknowledge that your beliefs and the patriarchal notion that you hold the path to salvation are unwanted to a lot of people. It's not maliciousness on your part, and in fact it might be rooted in the empathy you feel as a good person, but it's oblivious. That's what's wrong with apologetics, you can't start from the presupposition that god exists. At that point you might as well save the appeal to philosophy and just say you're right because god is right, because believe me, that's how it comes off. No one thinks you're making a logical case for something that by its very nature exists outside of logic and the confines of time and space, and the only people who are coerced by such arguments aren't truly on the fence on the topic but already have an openness to the supernatural that was never truly supressed.
@@whahappend8222 It's not arrogance, it a desperate attempt to show another what they have experienced and know to be True because they love them and don't want them to perish. It is sad that a Christian's attempt to show Love and steer them toward God is viewed as hate. But the bible did predict it so really not all surprised, just very sad. God bless you. ❤
@@whahappend8222 And just to pick your brain if I may? Do you believe in angels and demons or that there even is a spirit realm? Do you believe we have a soul or spirit?
@@reality1958 I would encourage you to watch NDE stories and testimonies. What other people have encountered has to count as something and can't be written off as fake or made up or chemicals in your brain. Until something is proven that it doesn't exist, you have to look at the possibility of things existing. Just because we can't see something doesn't mean it's not there, it's just in another realm or dimension.
I wish that naturalists like yourself would just admit they have no evidence, no valid argumentation-just blind, deaf, dumb, anti-science faith. But we both know you won't!
@@andresdanielemyou edited your comment... But it's just copy-pasted all over the comments. How smart do you think that makes you look. Oh, almost forgot the "LOL"
GoBallistic 99 it is meaningless to explain the supernatural to one that totally denies its existence in any form. And that is what is happening in this world as Apostle Paul even stated in his second letter to Timothy, everyone will eventually be lawless, make a god out of their own lives and whatsoever under the sun that God will eventually punish and give them what they deserve. Blessings my friend. Be well.
Jack Of All Trades I did not say that I am well-versed with the Bible and never will be because it is God’s Word. I can't fully comprehend what God has to say with my finite mind my friend. And you say puppet to people that willingly choose to let God take the driver seat of their life while managing themselves with His guidance as long as they choose to let Him be the driver of your own life. You can have peace and stability in this life but lose it all once you meet Death. ’Cause being human as we are, we all die in any way at any age at any time anywhere. To say you are very well versed with the Bible, I commend you, but how you accepted is your own choice and fate. And I respect that my friend. By the way: the verse you got with 2 Cor 10:5, read it thoroughly please, thank you.
Not to split hairs, but I think Frank's question should be, "If Christianity is true, would you become a Christian?" Not "If Christianity "were" true." I don't think it is too fine of a distinction.
"If, were" is actually the grammatically correct way of saying it. It's called subjunctive. I don't remember learning about it growing up, but wondered about it a few years ago after hearing "if, were" used. I see what you're saying, and would probably choose what you said. Since he's a scholar, I think Frank is wise to say it as he said it, lest he get criticized for not knowing the English language.
Didn't know about subjunctive just understood this method of asking as a minor allowance, ask it as a hypothetical in order to make the person being asked comfortable enough to give an honest answer. They believe it isn't true fair enough so ask from their perspective, "if Christianity were true would you be a Christian" this allows the person to think about the question without feeling like they are being tricked into saying Christianity is actually true it may also reveal something about themselves they didn't realise.
What he has said has some truth to it, but it ignores the real elephant in the room. Protestants do not believe God's Law is binding for them today and they do not believe they can stop sinning, even by the power of the one given to us for this purpose: the Holy Spirit, and cheap grace allows anyone wearing the name of Christ as a badge to continue sinning and asking for forgiveness and thinking they will not suffer the judgment of God. That is the REAL elephant in the room. Why? Because all of these stand opposed to the Scriptures. Any non-believer who has picked up the Bible can see easily, especially when using Jesus' teachings a the standard, that these things of the Protestants are not true. THAT is the real elephant in the room. These Protestant evangelists and apologists do not profess the same principles that are in the text that they quote and they certainly do not live by them. Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery, "Go and try not to sin and when you do, don't worry, it's covered and just try a little harder next time, and if you never quit sinning, don't worry, you'll still get in." NO!!!! Jesus said to her, "Go and sin no more!". James said faith is made complete by actions/works. In fact, he declared that faith without actions/works is not real faith. It cannot save a person. It is dead. And if your faith is dead, it has no power to save you! That is the truth of the Scripture.
“Why should we turn to someone other than historians or scientists, the experts in their related fields of research, for answers related to history or science? Apologists are just there to take advantage of you, telling you what you want to hear when the evidence tells you otherwise. The sheer existence of apologists is reason alone to raise suspicion. Their dishonesty is blatant when you simply double check what they say. In the end, historians and scientists are not just one big conspiracy against Jesus, the Bible is simply wrong about most things.” -Joseph R. Hanson
Or... how 'bout just believe whatever the heck you want, but quit trying to jam reason-suspending fairytales down other's throats? Ignorance is bliss, so why not just enjoy it 😉
"Reason-suspending fairy-tails"? No, your talking about your own naturalistic faith. Magical explosions! Chemicals coming to life! An amoeba becoming all life on the planet! It would seem that you can't see the forest through the trees. [face-palm] But why the "jam" term? (Who's jamming anything?) And are you saying there is something wrong with jamming-and that people can't really believe whatever the heck they want? And did you just admit that you are NOT a man of reason, but simply believe "whatever the heck" YOU "want" to believe? Interesting...
Sometimes I feel sad, trying to convince faithless people, and in 2019 I pray to Jesus, and called upon his name and he heard me, I ask Jesus that I wanted to see him and I wanted to take his picture, and then it happened his face appears on the clouds, and I took his picture, this is the one Im using on my Logo , now I tell my testimony and show people the picture I took, but people still don't believe me. Praise the Lord for he heard my prayers, GOD Bless you
Why do you think it's a matter of your own personal opinion when you try to legislate your superstition? You are imposing your superstition on others. Keep it to yourself.
@@panperl1212 " Is this a critique of the First Ammendment?" Nope. Your freedom of speech stops when it impinges on the rights and freedoms of others. This includes the rights of others to not hear what you have to say about your imaginary friend. Think of it this way: How would you feel if someone parked their car across the street and blasted death metal at 4000 db while you were trying to sleep on a work night? Freedom of speech includes freedom *from* speech as well. Or have you not taken any law?
“I charge you therefore before GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season, Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itchy ears they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth and be turned aside to fables.” (2 Timothy 4:1-4) Of note, the objective is NOT to convert or to "save" others--arrogant are those who seek to do what ONLY GOD can do. (Ephesians 2:8-10; 1 Timothy 2:1-8; Matthew 28; Acts 2:22-24; Romans 5:6 & 8:34; Ephesians 5:2; Galatians 1:4 & 3:13-14; John 3:17, 8:32, 12:42-50, & 14:6) This is why many who would be Christians suffer needlessly by becoming frustrated, discouraged, and overwhelmed as they attempt to share the Word and Message, expecting others to convert and be saved, and often find themselves doubting the faith because of their inability to save others, especially themselves. "Not losing heart, becoming better, and not focusing on what’s temporary, but what’s eternal." (2 Corinthians 4:16-18) "Jesus also told us, “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me.” (John 10:27-28) The objective (as Judeo-Christians) is to SHARE the WORD/Message of GOD with others. “For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord, walk as children of light.” (Ephesians 5:7-8) “But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light; who once were not a people, but are now the people of GOD, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.” (1 Peter 2:9-10) “For you were like sheep going astray but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your soul.” (1 Peter 2:25) "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore, be wise as serpents and harmless as doves." (Matthew 10:16; Luke 10:3) And then it is up to them (and GOD) whether or not they then CHOOSE to accept the Word/Message (aka the truth) that will liberate them from the chains of this world when they accept the Holy Spirit that will then enable them to convert to Judeo-Christianity. It is the WORD/Message of GOD that turns one away from a life of sin, NOT the one who brings the Word/Message to others. It is wrong to claim credit for what GOD is doing as he works through us. We should be humble and sincere as we seek to serve GOD, and NOT our own hubris or greedy intention when one believes they are the ones saving, when in fact is it GOD who is saving, but instead selflessly and sincerely being, and remaining to be, the Messager who merely shares the Word/Message of GOD, the same Word/Message that also saved us. Although we are to be the candle, that carries the light, the light is not ours, but shines from the Holy Spirit, illuminated by the truth that resides in the Word/Message of GOD, meant to lead others out of the darkness and back into the light and towards their Heavenly Father, which one can ONLY do with the help of and by accepting Jesus Christ. “For many are called, but few are chosen.” (Matthew 22:14) “And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!” (Mark 6:11-12) “He who is of GOD hears GOD’s words; therefore, you do not hear, because you are not of GOD.” (John 8:47) It is NOT the Judeo-Christian way to impose upon other the Word/Message, to do so is doing what pagans (leftist) do. We only share the Word and Message to those who will hear, the rest is in GOD's hands. "I have given them your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.” (John 17:14) “For this reason, we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13) “Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.” (James 5:20) “Nevertheless, when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.” (2 Corinthians 3:16) “But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the Word of GOD deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of GOD.” But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of GOD, should shine on them. For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. For it is the GOD who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of GOD in the face of Jesus Christ.” ((2 Corinthians 4:2-6) “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, least they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.” (Matthew 7:6) “But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings, about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.” (Titus 3:9) “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!” (Matthew 6:22-24; Luke 11:33-36) "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." (John 3:19) "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light less his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light that his deeds may be clearly seen that they have been done in God." (John 3:20-21) “Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things that wrath of GOD comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore, do not be partakers with them. For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord, walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth: finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. And have no fellowship with unfruitful works of darkness but rather expose them.” (Ephesians 5:6-11) Joshua 24:15 Psalms 28:7 & 40 Strength and Honor!
The way I approach it is if they're asking a sincere question I give a sincere answer but if they're asking questions just to be confrontational or argumentative that's where I shut it down. I will not cast my Pearls Before Swine
Exactly. If they don't want to genuinely understand then I shake the dust off my feet and end it. But sometimes I stay just to show them the insanity of atheism
@@choosejesus1910 how sincere can you be in return if you refer to atheism as insanity. If you are shoewing that kind of disrespect in conversation you shouldn't expect a worthwhile discussion.
The god of the bible is a monster. If it was real, I could never worship such a cruel, vile being. If you believe in it and submit because you FEAR it, then you’re a coward. The only redeeming quality of god is the fact that it doesn’t exist.
The best apologetic to apply when talking to Atheists is none at all. We've heard the fallacies a hundred times before. Special. Pleading, circular reasoning, Pascals Wager, and that idiotic Kalam thing that WLC does. Concede the point that there is insufficient credible evidence for god and we can start to have a conversation. Until then I will regard your 'Apologetics' as propaganda and you as a dishonest interlocutor.
I think sex IS the main religion of the lost, but they also have Environmentalism and Stateism as well. For some people, they are even more attractive than sex, because they feel they can say later that they were a part of a big, significant movement that promoted x, y, and z, and they get to feel good about themselves with NO accountability. A win win for the unsaved.
@Benjamin Figgins That reality revolves around Jesus Christ who saved us from our self-righteousness.* I think the original comment is a valid point my friend. God bless you and Jesus loves you John 3:16- For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
@Benjamin Figgins God is just, meaning He has to punish sin, evil. God is also all-loving, and loves us so much that He came to take the punishment on Himself, so that we don't have to. So that if we accept and receive His payment, (Christ's death on the cross for our sins, his burial, and resurrection from the dead) we are forgiven. Not a loophole, it's God who is at the same time completely just, loving, righteous, and merciful. God bless and Jesus loves you my friend!
@Benjamin Figgins not at all. It's just clear you have an attitude and no understanding of the Trinity. A bad look. Don't cast pearls to anime swine, yada yada yada.
If there's one thing I need less than a hole in the head, it's another religious person telling me what my hidden motives are. That's when you know they've given up trying to convince you and have retreated to the more attainable goal of trying to convince themselves.
What do you mean by "logical?" What do you mean by "person?" And what do you mean by "magical man?" (And I'm not being facetious. I'm seriously asking this).
@NotACapitalist That was not really smart of you to say. Dictionaries are written by people, who happen to have different ideas and a changing understanding regarding most words, which also vary and evolve throughout different times, places and circumstances. Asking about clear definition is a smart and honest thing to do, if you're really interested in the truth and a constructive discussion. Even Socrates, an ancient Greek philosopher, who lived thousands of years ago, recognized this and asked people, he disagreed with, such kind of questions. Please be a bit less provocative and offensive, when you may be wrong. You're not always the smartest person, you know... (Racism is also not a nice thing to promote)
@NotACapitalist How many dictionaries are there and how many different definitions are there for every word in average? Do people always mean exactly what they say? Do they always have to agree with certain definitions absolutely? Don't dictionaries evolve too, according to the language, rather than the opposite? You're behaving quite arrogant and aggressive my friend. Why do you call my being a "miserable existence" and what's wrong with asking others what they mean with what they say? I advice you to be more humble.
@NotACapitalist "Did you not learn about dictionaries?" "Had you knowledge, you would not need to be told that." "Why are you so lacking in knowledge of English definitions and your country" "do you lack logic?" "Knowledge isn't magical." "by people of intelligence" "some advice which you might consider at some point in your miserable existence" "I am mot the brightest crayon in the box, but you make it apparent that I am a brighter crayon than you" "Other than the fact you made, that you are too damned lazy to become well informed, did you have a point?" "You lack data for your intellect to operate upon." "Perhaps you might try using a dictionary" "You can resolve your own ignorance if you work at it." r/iamverysmart
Two points: 1) If aliens from another planet visited us, demonstrating technology so advanced that it was far beyond our ability to even understand it (much less duplicate it), we would deem it "magic". Similarly , with a Creator Who has the ability to create things which, for the most part, we cannot even explain (much less duplicate), we would also expect that some fools would also call that magic. 2) a) When people believe that things can happen BY THEMSELVES WITH NO INTELLIGENT AGENT, which clearly violates observable, repeatable, and established scientific principles, PLUS they will tell you that these things happen, while they admit that no one has ever seen them happen (not even themselves), I think we would skip the step of accusing them of believing in magic, and instead go directly to having them committed for being certifiably INSANE! Men of reason have clearly observed that that matter and energy do not simply materialize into existence, yet atheists DO believe that not only has it happened, but many of them believe it has happened an infinite number of times with entire UNIVERSES of matter and energy just "popping" into existence, FOR NO REASON and WITH NO INTELLIGENCE! ...and, b) People over 100 years ago believed that living things just "popped" into existence all the time! Although it was disproved (by a Creationist, by the way, who discovered the Biblically scientific Law of Biogenesis), atheists still believe that it happened (many times, apparently). Yet many of them refuse to critically examine their own magical beliefs!
Bit of a straw man about the morality/sex claim. I for one, was a Christian and when falling away from my faith, never was it because I needed to have more sex or because I didn’t like what Jesus was telling me not to do. It was that he wasn’t saying anything. The more I pressed into the “relationship”, the more I realized the god was really in my head. I appreciate the way it has helped me in working out a system of morality, but I just am no longer able to suspend my experience of reality.
@@kareneveler9658 - Says who? The Bible? So he just puts it out as a blanket statement for all of humanity, that none of his special creations created in his image will live up to his standards. In any other context, such a creator/designer would be considered a massive failure. And how does he uphold his moral code/wishes/desires. If my kid does something wrong or is moving in a “wrong” moral direction, I am quick to specifically address and provide correction or reasonable punishment. With god it seems his way is to convict people by unreasonable standards, possibly sway correction through one having to self reflect and possibly hear “the still small voice”, but ultimately eternally torment people who don’t fall into line by mentally assenting to an unfalsifiable proposition.
Hey Doc Turek its me Doc Turek ArchD (doct.) Architecture-- UH BS Struct engineer'g 3 years in my bach bus Ad from USD & AA in Art --Rick Mills glass studios UH Manoa
To argue that atheists "just don't want moral accountability," is the same as me arguing that Christians "just love God micromanaging them." Turek expects us to sacrifice a huge part of ourselves for a God we don't believe in. There's no reason to make us seem un-human, especially when you won't even sacrifice drinking caffeine because the Mormon up the road said, "You drink it because you just want to sin."
First off ...stay away from Mormons please.. lol second off frank dosent want you to do anything for god he's pointing people to a God that wants them& that is literally trying to save humanity from their sins (death) & he's right many of us if just not about all of us don't always like to be accountable for our wrongs & some never want to be accountable for their wrongs some people it's their way or no way until it's separation from God for an et
@@wyeishajones2523 Some people might not want to be accountable for their sins, but the same could be said about Christians: "You worship God because you just want to escape the Hell you deserve." But is this really an accurate portrayal? Only in some cases. The deeper reason many atheists don't follow Biblical morality is because they disagree with it. It's not necessarily that they WANT to sin. It's that they aren't going to sacrifice something for a God they don't believe in.
@@zeddicuszorrander3599 this idea that God's plan is just only to offer salvation is highly flawed iv seen this mindset from people who haven't really studied scripture or just glanced over the gospel not really trying to understand completely missing the point iv seen this from both believers & unbelievers reasons why it helps to be filled with holy spirit to better understand scripture then to just try to digest it from a logical perspective Jesus came to give life more abundantly he wasn't just talking about saving people souls from hell he he was talking God's plan for us to live how God intended for us too... to love God first & ourselves properly & others to be filled with the fruit of the spirit to have authority over the kingdom of darkness to conquer sin which is spiritual death & causes speration with god & so much... some people have this idea that they can just pray a prayer & live in constant rebellion to god abusing God's grace & have all the blessings now & a eternal after & they are horribly mistaken the kingdom of God is for those not just seeking paradise with God but for a people seeking righteousness & to live in righteousness & harmony with God some Christians understand this Jesus said pick up your cross & follow me God was showing us how to live how our characters are to be through Jesus life some people people understand this....& many others don't for the people who don't agree with God's plan is becuse they don't care to repent they don't care to learn to walk in righteousness they have lil to no accountability
Yep...everything around sex(abortion,same sex marriage)=reject morality= God respect people's wish. Only a problem, when God retreat from people's life guess who enter? It's binary choice God or devil, there is not a third option.
I am going to add to what you said about the new Religion: SEX. I have also come across a new Religion called : SELF. I believe it sits on a higher hierarchy of all the other new religions i.e. New Age Spirituality , Yoga, Meditation, Astrology, SEX, etc. And they are all here right now . It seems people are now doing everything under the guise of SELF ignorance or SELF consciousness to make the right moral choice . Do you have any advice on how we can deal with these. Cautious I listed quite a lot of things 😆
Basically, Self, Sex, State, and Stuff. That's what those of the World religion worship. Promise them all of the above and they will bow and worship whoever is making the promises.
When I wasnt christian, I would get mad when my gf brought it up. I believe it was the evil in me hating christ, not me or my mind, but the demons in me. Now that I believe I can see it in other people when I bring it up.
I agree that what you say is one possibility. I've also had people get furious with me when I talk about God, only to find out later in the conversation that no one was left in their life besides strangers. All family and relatives were dead, and they blamed God. They didn't understand how God could leave them all alone on this planet with only strangers as their kin. It was such deep hurt that it showed up as fury when God's name was mentioned.
Wow , that man asked his question because he’s gone out in the world and he noticed apologetic tactics don’t work because he’s getting laughed at an eyes rolling from these people . Apologetic books are meant for only Christians they don’t help comfort non-believers. They just help to enrich the writers .
Indeed. Aldous Huxley, in his book, "The Perennial Philosophy", admitted that he and his friends, when they were in college, didn't WANT to believe in God because if they did, then they would have to give up indulging in all the sinful behavior that they were enjoying (drinking, sex, etc.).
@@reality1958 Oh, so you think it's GOD's job to come looking for YOU, eh? Interesting notion. :) Meister Eckhart wrote, "God is at home. It's we who have gone out for a walk." And Zen master Yuan Wu said, "From the moment of your birth until this very moment, you have been turning away from light, to darkness. Time to turn round and come home." Thanks much for sharing your thoughts, Barbara. Best wishes. 😊
@@reality1958 But He does want to have a relationship with us (heck, He yearns for one strongly enough to be willing to pour himself into human form for 33 years, AND get crucified), and He isn't hiding - it's we who are hiding, ever since Adam and Eve hid themselves in the Garden of Eden when they realized that they'd rather horrifically messed up. (Or TRIED to hide themselves, that is. It's actually a pretty funny notion if you think about it, thinking that you could HIDE from God, that if you just ducked into the bushes, He wouldn't be able to find you. HellOOOO - He's GOD, remember?) And God doesn't "demand" that we believe anything - He's very, very big on freedom of choice. Again, thanks for your thoughts - I enjoy hearing someone's viewpoint other than my own - after all, I already know what I think. :) I actually stopped teaching Zen because I was a bit sick of listening to ME talk. By the way, why do you just look like a giant letter "B" rather than a person? Just curious, that's all. Someone wiser than me (which, admittedly, isn't a bar that's set real high) once said, "It isn't that things don't exist or don't happen - it's that we don't SEE them. Saint Paul was oh so right when he said that we 'see as if through a glass darkly'. That's why encountering Christ is often likened to experiencing a burst of light - 'I once was lost, but now am found, was BLIND, but now I SEE'." In any event, if you would sincerely like to find God, I can at least tell you that He lives in the town of Paradox.
Especially when folks like yourself don't have an apologetic for your own faith position. Thanks for stopping by and making claims you can't demonstrate, Ozzy. 😉
I'm not sure what the point of this is? As an atheist when i hear "Religon of Sex" it immediately turns me off to whatever you're going to say As for the tactics book i need to read that and ask my athiest friends what they think about it. I know Paulogia has done a few videos on it. I'm probably not the target audience but i do like to keep up on what the new hip trend is.
Show me evidence that there is a god, then we'll talk about not wanting a god. Until then just accept that I reject your claim of a god due to lack of evidence.
@@fdameron Alright. I will not mention the moral argument then. Let's just begin with the scientific one. Do you believe that natural laws (as for example mathematical and physical laws) govern the universe?
@@panperl1212 Also trying to imply that morals had to come from god is fallacious at best. If you can't demonstrate a god to begin with, claiming that morals came from god is a baseless assertion.
“If you declare with your mouth “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9). Now is the time to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior. Obey His commands and repent of your sins because Jesus is coming back soon. Tomorrow isn’t promised.
Interesting that he needs a strategy to defend his position. It is almost as if he has no logic and evidence to support his claims. It is almost as of he cannot deal with opposition directly and intentional asks distracting questions to take the attention away from the assertions of people who spend their life studying science.
Steven Burdick your way of thinking is actually silly. We,Christians,don’t need tactics.What Frank is stating here is this: how to speak to you - so called atheists, and nonbelievers,about God - in whom you don’t believe,so you will not get so emotional as you tend to do so,for reason which we Christians do not understand.If you don’t believe, shouldn’t we have a nice,calm discussion or a debate then? Yet, you guys are getting so aggressive and emotional,for no reason,because as you claim,God doesn’t exist? We don’t get aggressive or hateful towards science,because science proves so much of God,that we actually love it!
The best thing an apologist could do when talking to a non-believer is suggest the non believer go talk to a biblical scholar instead of listening to the apologist bear false witness by pretending like they know something happened when they really don't know that thing happened
Sheik Yerbouti if they say no, the problem is not intellectual. They don't want to believe it and they know very well that they do believe but just don't want to let go of their sin.
Sheik Yerbouti I would walk away, the discussion ends there. They didn't walk into to with an open mind to be begin and they didn't plan on doing so anyway and at that point all you can do is pray.
@@Gnathan96 Hah! You really believe in Allah. You know Allah is the only true God but you deny it because you want to eat bacon and wash it down with beer. If you can manage to explain why I am wrong about you secretly believing in Allah but wanting to do things that Islam defines as sins then there is a slender chance you will be able to understand why your claim that Atheists secretly believe in your god but want to sin is wrong.
@Richard Ball It's almost fair questions. The thing is, there are no proof of these things aside from the resurrection of Christ. Now, if you don't believe that either, then i would suggest watch his full presentation and more of his videos which explain a lot of things. If you still don't believe, then the problem is you don't want it to be true.
@@the5thmusketeer215 According to said apologists they were once atheists...if you want believe they arent lying to gain credibility with the audience thats up to you
EarlFaulk Yep... A typical, close minded cynic... Cutting your nose off to spite your face. (Some) Atheists never change. Good luck with that, when you’re facing death like a man about to jump from a plane, without a parachute. 🤷🏻♂️
@@the5thmusketeer215 Cynical? Hardly. All you need to convince me that Jesus existed is a letter from a contemporary saying he met the man. Granted that isnt the same as proving his divinity. At least it would be a start. And it would be a lot better than the fallacious arguments apologists use
Christian apolgetics is an interesting contradiction. On one hand you have an all powerful, all knowing, deity who wants us to love him, and desires a relationship with us. On the other hand w apparently need Christian apologists to tell us about this God. If this all knowing, all loving, all powerful, God existed, I would expect that Christianity would be completely self evident, and there would be no need for apologists!
drumrnva Ah test of heart. Father already gave miracles to people but as history proof even if he shows miracles to the people the majority just wony listen. Time and time again this is shown. Now he doesnt make miracles that apparent we all have his word and the teatimony of the holy spirit. Would you listen to it? Would you actually take the time to find evidence to the life, death and resurrection of Jesus? All the information is out there. It is just a teast of heart really
God is easily proved to the reasonable. Still, you cannot will someone to agree with your evidence or logic. They have to be willing. Perspective is a funny thing. What do you think reality is?
I grant that there is a point of friction, but it isn't religious as you presented it. It is a host of issues: 1) Morality a) The idea of Christians imposing that their notions on others is not acceptable any more than someone else imposing their notions on a Christian or anyone else for that matter. The public space is about our freedom to be and hold whatever perspective so long as that perspective doesn't assault others to have the same for their lives. b) I (and it seems many others) don't find the Bible to be moral. The genocide, capacious killing, slavery, and more are simply putrid. 2) Fictional Notions versus Reality The Bible has numerous falsehoods that many Christians take to be true. I grant that this issue extends to other Abrahamic claimants as well. I can't really comment on whatever cognitive compromises by other religions since I have no reviewed sufficient numbers of the various others. You presented the idea that evolution was not true, which was the end of my simply watching your "I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist", since, I didn't find your miseducating people to be at all decent. I grant that the Republican party isn't representative of all Christians, but the level of scientific ignorance that is generally presented and the subsequent boneheaded decision making is simply putrid. So, yes, some of us hold a degree of hostility to the label Christian, since, it is often the case that there is a lot of baggage which will be problematic to someone. I grant that there are numerous bright and decent people who claim the label Christian, but the label itself is quite tarnished.
Pacen tho The following are rationally fictional: 1) Creation Account 2) Adam and Eve 3) Noah's Ark 4) Jonah Tale 5) Scale of slavery claimed of Jews by Egypt 6) Flat Earth depiction 7) Tower of Babel There's more, but this seemed to be enough for the moment.
1. A god exists. All other error in the Bible flows from this basic falsehood. Of course, if you've got evidence any god exist now, or ever did exist, I'll reconsider my opinion of the Bible.
MyContext None of these are rationally fictional if you have a reason to believe in God. Which i do. Miracles are a part of what God is capable of. So tell me rationally how the creation account is fictional. we can start with that.
***** Retarded assertion. I've had experiences with God before, which is something you'd like to dismiss as a hallucination, but i know what i saw. Not enough evidence for you? Who cares lol. The good thing about God is you can get evidence by asking God with an open heart to reveal himself to you. By open heart i don't mean you have to be crying in the fetal position about how sinful you are, i mean you are genuinely seeking God regardless of how many "enlightened" atheists would laugh at the fact you're looking for a "non-existent" entity. It's a matter of faith, which most atheists are never willing to do because they've already decided it's a ridiculous idea to call out to the "invisible sky daddy" cartoon character they have in their heads. Since you guys love to masturbate to the scientific method so much(which is ironically what enlightened atheist fail to employ constantly) Write this down: Hypothesis: God exists. Experiment: Ask God to reveal himself to you with an open heart. Then tell me what happens. If you're not willing to do this, don't cry about having no evidence.
Justified by grace through faith in jesus atonement. Romans 4;5-8 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
Hmmm... I don't know of any atheist that is not a Christian because they don't like Christianity's morality. It is because they don't find the evidence compelling enough to be true. Personally, I was completely happy with "no sex before marriage". I only changed my behavior after reading completely through the Bible 4 times and realizing that it didn't present me with any compelling evidence of a supernatural. I don't say this to start an argument about whether it is true or not. I only say it because atheists are not trying to escape the Christian God's morality by claiming he doesn't exist. The truth is, they don't subscribe to the Christian God's morality because they don't believe he exists.
Telling the truth kills credibility now? I also left on account of lack of evidence. Every atheist I've ever met has the same rationale (or was always an atheist.)
so before you were happy with the idea of not sex before marriage and then you changed your mind? coz the Holy Spirit told you told you that you were wrong and now you are right? people dont believe in God due the existency of the Bible, but by Faith. dear friend, i guess you tried to believed logically and there is where you failed. i might be wrong but nowadays most of the things we do believe such as Trinity are based only by FAITH. so... now look at inside you again without the Bible and ask yourself. IF CHRISTIANITY WERE TRUE, would that means that you wioudlnt make sense the definition of FAITH ITSELF? which means....
So you need tactics to argue for your belief? Why not call it tricks? It needs tricks to trick out the natural human rational faculties, that could develop freely in a child if it is not tricked.
I think you should first try to reach your fellow "Christians" and work through your disagreements over your holy book, and your different god beliefs. Even in Christianity there are thousands of different things that they disagree on. So until you guys figure out what in fact your god says or said, then you can attempt to come to other people, religious or non religious, and try to convince us.
What you said is not true. The problem is that you are ignorant to what Biblical Christianity is. Your "1000 different arguments" stem from cults that have nothing to do with Biblical Christianity.
youngnixx88788 no, it has to do with over 30,000 different denominations of Christianity, which all disagree with different views of the bible. If the Christian god is so perfect, why did he make a book so easily misinterpreted?
Casey Lee NEWSFLASH: just because someone calls themselves "christian" doesn't make them one. Do you even know what a Biblical Christian is? Can you explain? If not, your question is strawman and a weak one at that.
+Casey Lee The differences and minor contradictions don't matter because from those contradictions we can draw a common conclusion. For example, if all the books say that Jesus said so and so in a different way, then we can draw a conclusion that approximates what he said. Also, there are so little differences between branches, in fact there are only three branches with huge differences. Catholicism Protestantism and Mormonism. Catholicism believes in a pope which isn't biblically supported. And Mormonism believes in 3 gods which also isn't biblically supported. So in fact Protestantism and all its beaches teach the same message. Name me two Protestant branches that are majorly different
***** but the bible and other holy books are written by their own specific god right? Isn't the bible "gods word"? So shouldn't a perfect being such as your god be able to create it's book without all these different interpretations that everyone disagrees on? I mean if I was god, I would've done a much better job. And there aren't that many scientists who believe in a god, and much less who believe in the specific Christian god.
I just don't get it how people can't see that Yahweh, the Bible, religions in general are man made. I really do think that most Christians avoid actually thinking about why they believe it. It provides a psychologically pleasurable feeling of security and fellowship that they just don't want to give up. I understand that part.
Also, I always hear that Yahweh does not want us to be robots. He wants us to freely choose to love and accept him. Do you believe this? That is my second question.
Candice Arlebemus Omnipotent? Yea God can do anything. Some ask can God defy the laws of non-contradiction? I'd say yes. I can't fathom that, but neither can i fathom eternity. Omniscient? Yup. Your second question: I think he wants us to freely choose to accept him. Choosing to love makes no sense, i hear dishonest Christians saying this all the time, because you don't choose who you love as love is a result of how the other person behaves toward you. I'm even skeptical about freely choosing to accept him, because my mind is really guided by how i feel or what i experience. So i don't even think i have control over that.
The lack of evidence for the things which are written in it. If you make a scientific assertion you have to provide scientific evidence to show that assertion is true.
James Scobie And what exactly is your response "to this crap?" Seems to me like you are responding exactly as Frank Turek says you may, if you're an atheist.
You could ask your self; what are apologetics and why does religion need it? Definition: Apologetics is the religious discipline of defending or attempting to prove the truth of religious doctrines through systematic argumentation and discourse. Translation: Making up excuses for believe without evidence... So why would you need to make up excuses... Perhaps because the whole thing isnt true... ???
Wouldnt need apologetics if people would stop refusing to believe truth. No need for a trials in court if we didnt need to find the truth about the trial.
And when a community among them said, "Why do you advise [or warn] a people whom Allah is [about] to destroy or to punish with a severe punishment?" they [the advisors] said, "To be absolved before your Lord and perhaps they may fear Him."
I think Frank's question should be asked to Christians as well. "If Islam is true, would you believe it?" I think most Christians, including Frank, would say "No".
It's not just belief. It's patently obvious ACTION and BEHAVIOUR as well. You can believe what you want. When you move to impose those beliefs on others, when you move to have those beliefs enshrined in enforceable legislation -- then you better expect push-back in the form of people demanding you rationally justify your demands. When your demands pretty much end up being "because it's in this book" and that's it -- then you are going to be ridiculed.
@@panperl1212 Enforceable actions as in taking away protections from discrimination, or actively enabling and protecting discrimination. From enshrining the refusal to allow same-sex marriages, or enshrining (in legislation) laws against sodomy or blasphemy (victimless crimes).
@@PhrontDoor You're correct, it's not just belief. But maybe they're wrong, maybe they're right about certain things. Whose to say they're opinion shouldn't be heard? What if blasphemy is not a victimless crime and they're right on that thing? I'm not an American, but I really do support the first amendment (which includes your side about those topics).
@@panperl1212 If blasphemy were NOT a victimless crime, then you'd be able to rationally defend that claim. They can't. The same for the opposition to gay marriage and so on. There are NO rational defenses for such opposition, no defenses for the imposition of such laws. With murder and theft, we can easily present a simple, empirical harm, and a victim and a cause and effect. Their opinion can be heard. But if their opinion is just 'this book says X" then it's not THEIR opinion anymore -- it's the book. And the book has no right to be heard. When they can muster a rational defense, THEN we can consider legislation, but absolutely never before that.
@@PhrontDoor It may not be a crime against another human (it therefore shouldn't be a human law), but maybe it is a crime against God and can, therefore, be punished by God. (That would exclude enforceable legislation as you mentioned it)
I have a corollary to Frank's point about the religion of sex. It's also the religion of SELF. As to why there is such animosity, I think it is because of what Blaise Pascal pointed to, that we have a 'God shaped hole' inside of us. This means that on a fundamental, spiritual level, like it or not, atheists are angry because, deep inside they know its all true, and that is offensive to their conscious mind which worships self and logic before faith and God. It is so frightening to them, this idea that they are not the center of the universe, that they act out against anyone who tries to lead them to the truth. In their mind they will not only lose the kind of sex they worship, but they lose themselves as being preeminent in their own security-blanketed world. The fact is that realizing the truth of God is really awesome, but it must be embraced to be appreciated. They fear that. In fact, I have nearly stopped arguing with them about it. I share thoughts in the comment section of these videos, and then I go, having cast some seed, as in Matthew 13:3. Not all will be saved. Some will be lost. The Italian term is "Stunod," a person who will not let a truth penetrate their thick skull. I can share with them, because of Matthew 28, but I know that some of the ground will be rocks, and the seed cannot grow there. Still, I will cast the seed of truth.
+Jay Lafleur If you disagree with my statement, I challenge you to check Turek's answers. You will see that he blatantly lies about what the bible says on many things. Just as an example look at the following video from 38:50 onwards: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2Cqg7wkVAoU.html Then take a look at the following: www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2014/08/yes-biblical-slavery-was-the-same-as-american-slavery/ After looking at the above, you will see clearly why Turek is a liar
Leoluca Bagarella First of all Nobody at Patheos is a scholar in any sense of the word . And also Biblical slavery was alot different first of all kidbapping for slave trading would given you the death penalty(Exodus 21:16) so following that law alone American slavery would not have existed. and here ya go for some actual context www.rationalchristianity.net/slavery_ot.html
While I couldn't answer this question at all, I want to add that you have to validate the person you interact with. If he is really into the conversation it's fine but most of the times ppl only want to argue about it and have no intent to let you speak or understand you. In the second case you have to leave from there...
Christians thinking they need to convert/save unbelievers is akin to the moral this African proverb: "How the Monkeys saved the Fish" (Traditional Tanzanian Folktale) The rainy season that year had been the strongest ever and the river had broken its banks. There were floods everywhere and the animals were all running up into the hills. The floods came so fast that many drowned, except the lucky monkeys who climbed up into the treetops. They looked down on the water where the fish were swimming and jumping out of the water as if they were the only ones enjoying the flood. One of the monkeys saw the fish and shouted: "Look down, my friend, look at those poor creatures. They are going to drown. Do you see how they struggle in the water?" "Yes," said the other monkey. "They could probably not escape the floods, because they seem to have no legs. How can we save them?" "I think we must do something. Let's go close to the edge of the flood where the water is not deep enough to cover us, and we can help them to get out." So the monkeys did just that. They started catching the fish, but not without difficulty. One by one, they brought them out of the water and put them carefully on the dry land. After a short time there was a pile of fish lying on the grass motionless. One of the monkeys said, "Do you see? They were tired, but now they are just sleeping and resting. Had it not been for us, my friend, all these poor animals without legs would have drowned." The other monkey said: "They will be very grateful because we have saved their lives."
@@monkkeygawd Nope? That doesn't answer any of my questions... But if you weren't just trying to be cute, then maybe you can answer the questions or defend the claims you just made?
I think, it is not the point to win the argument to convince non-believers into believing. The point is to obey Jesus' command to share the Gospel, but this is actually difficult due to the fear of being rejected. Even Jesus did not convince EVERYONE when He was on earth, else He wouldn't be nailed onto the cross. So it is not for us to worry that non-believers will not be convinced, as we certainly can't do any better than Jesus. God has already chosen. Those who deemed to be saved will be saved. They will either hear the Gospel from you or another person, and believe at the time that God has set. The question simply is "Do you want to be part of the mission and receive your Heavenly rewards?" But this doesn't mean you can just go share the Gospel without a deep understand of it yourself. To share something, you must have experienced it yourself. You share with your friends where you buy your stuff because you've enjoyed lower price or good service from that shop, and you want your good friends to benefit from that too. Likewise, until you personally experienced Jesus, it is not wise to just start sharing Him about, but you can invite them to your church and maybe someone from your church can share their experience of Jesus). So I believe the priority of importance is: 1. Building up our relationship with Christ to experience Him personally. 2. Then to learn the techniques of 'talking to non-believers' if you believe you've experienced Christ but find it difficult to express in words.
If Frank Turek and Dr. DINO (Kent Hovind) sat down and had a cup of coffee together, it'd be an extremely important event. I don't think they'd have much to debate about, but I'd definitely pay to see then have a general discussion
