Can You Lose Your Salvation (W/ Dr. Frank Turek) 

Good point. However, I think that the question isn't whether or not you can "lose," "earn" or "sustain" something. The question is whether or not you can abandon, forsake or leave your part of this new covenant. A covenant, after all, is a binding agreement made between two or more parties. It's like a marriage covenant between a husband and wife. This is why God hates divorce. In terms of covenants, God's part of a covenant is ETERNAL. He will not forsake his part. He will always extend his part to those he enters into covenant with. Still, the question is whether human beings who come to Christ are capable of abandoning the covenant. In the old covenant, it was entirely clear that they could -- and God's elect (i.e., the "Chosen People") did quite a few times (which ultimately led to captivity). Early on, it happened at Peor just before God's people entered the Promised Land. Balaam (that "prophet-for-hire") taught a foreign king that God could not pour out wrath upon his people UNLESS they had forsaken the covenant. So, the king of the Amorites sent women to entice many of the Israelites to forsake the covenant by engaging in immorality and idolatry. The wrath of God -- via a plague -- ensued. Many thousands headed to the Promised Land died. However, that was under the OLD covenant. The question today is whether or not there is responsibility of believers in the NEW covenant. What must we do to be a part of this new covenant? Obviously, we must believe in Christ Jesus. By the cross, ALL PEOPLE are all drawn to Christ Jesus (John 12:32-33). However, it is not enough to simply believe (because even the demons believe...and tremble) but to have unwavering faith in Christ. After all, the writer of Hebrews said, "And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must BELIEVE THAT HE EXISTS and that HE REWARDS THOSE WHO SEEK HIM" (Hebrews 11:6 ESV). That word "seek" is translated as "diligently seek" in the KJV and "earnestly seek" in the NIV. The Greek verb (ekzēteō) differs from other more prevalent word for of "seek" (i.e., "zēteō") because this "ek" prefix conveys earnestness and diligence. Moreover, the word is a verb in the form of a present participle. It's not that you once sought him...but that you (presently) diligently seek him. Is it possible for someone to ever STOP believing and/or seeking God? In the end, the New Testament teaches that unbelievers cannot enter the Kingdom of God. We also know that sin is always at the door -- and humans are incapable of being "sinless" while living in this earthly flesh. It is just as true now as it was under an old covenant in which sacrifices for sin were a regular part of the life of God's people. However, we have an eternal atonement made for our sins by Christ's sacrifice. So, that promise of atonement is ETERNAL. However, this still begs the question for whether someone can abandon/forsake/leave the covenant (the same Hebrew word is used for this concept in the old testament). Can someone who once believed wholeheartedly in Christ ever stop believing? Can someone who was devoted to seeking the Lord ever stop seeking?

You don't sustain it, Jesus does. He continually intercedes on our behalf. Once you understand the blood covenant from the ancient near East practises you'll know why it won't make sense to try and earn something once the sacrifice has already been offered.

Because the Holy Spirit has come into to guide you into the ways of righteousness. Zechariah 4:6 So he answered and said to me: “This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’

Great way to put it.

This is great. Going to use this

Terry, I am in agreement with you. Be blessed.

He didn't save us without our permission and never will

@@justnii2056you’re comfortable saying that God didn’t actually save anyone through the cross of Jesus, but only made people “savable”, because ultimately God can’t save without man allowing Him to?…

@@justnii2056 My people perish because of a lack of Knowledge Our Salvation is revealed to us….

Amen Glory to God 🙏

Yes, the once saved always saved idea is used like an indulgence by some. They feel safe to do whatever they want because they believe they cannot lose salvation through rebellion. Rebellion and apostasy is found throughout the Bible. I think the Bible is abundantly clear on the matter.

Soul can, and is refering to physical life. Not all verses are about spiritual salvation. One can sin oneself to death in this life and still be saved.

#BiblicallyUneducated

That is only interpretation at best. Multiple translations like the KJV, ESV, and others even specifies saying saving their souls from death. Death of one’s soul is more than just physical.

@@antonkoivisto2999 You are being deceived. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 1 Jn 3:6. If you are not abiding in Christ you'll die. We have to be IN Him. It's possible to sin for a believer. But if you keeps on sinning that means you are getting away from Christ not abiding

Look up Within Heaven's Gates by Rebecca Springer. Page 64 😇

So choosing to believe in what Jesus did, is that not something you do? By making a choice weather to believe or not?

Jesus: Matthew 5: 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches [i]others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever [j]keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Luke 13: 23 And someone said to Him, “Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?” And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27 and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers.’ 1 John 2: 3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked. Romans 2: 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress [e]for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For all who have sinned [f]without the Law will also perish [g]without the Law, and all who have sinned [h]under the Law will be judged [i]by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers [j]of the Law who are [k]just before God, but the doers [l]of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have [m]the Law do [n]instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having [o]the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. James 2: 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy [m]triumphs over judgment. 1 Peter 4: 17 For it is time for judgment to begin [l]with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And if it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved, [m]what will become of the godless man and the sinner? 19 Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right. Philippians 2: 12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. Jesus: Revelation 3: 4 But you have a few [a]people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.

Christ also tells us that we are judged by our faith AND our works. So it does also involve us. We have free will.

Read the epistles and also of course what Jesus said. It appears that many will and many will not find salvation. Jesus said many will be surprised. One fallacy is to think we are saved, Jesus said we are on our way. It is a way, and a gate. A disciple journeys. Paul says on one instance, you ate nearer to your salvation. Indeed we are dependent, as Jesus said, abide in me, that is to say follow him, obey him, or be thrown away.

Then you were never saved in the first place. I struggle all the time with certain sins ,but I’m holding on to my salvation. If you enjoy the sin and there is no remorse you most likely weren’t saved in the first place. But if you are aware and remorseful you are definitely saved. Remember Lot he was declared a righteous man even tho in his righteousness he was tormented day and night. He still struggled.

thats not in the Bible. Read the parable of the Sower and the seed. Thats the answer. These are all verses ppl you to promote their pro or against eternal security but all of them are to be understood with one question.......which soil is this? Matthew 24:13 John 15:6 Romans 11:17-22 Galatians 5:4 John 6:37-40, 47 John 8 John 10 John 10:27-29 John 14:16-17 Romans 8:38 Romans 10:9 Romans 11:29 Ephesians 1:12-14 Ephesians 4:30 Philippians 1:16 Colossians 3:3 1 Peter 1:3-5 1 Peter 1:23 1 John 5:1,13 Jude 1:24-25 Hebrews 3:12 Hebrews 6:1-8 Hebrews 10:26-27 1 Timothy 1:19 1 Timothy 4:1 1 Timothy 5:15 2 Timothy 2:12 2 Timothy 4:3-10 James 5:19-29 1 John 1:7 II Peter 3:1-18 Jude 1:5 Jude 1:12

God cannot take away your salvation. You can withdraw it. It's up to us. We are saved if we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. The minute we reject Him (fall away), we reject our Him as our Lord, thus rejecting our salvation.

@@aaronharlow2137 Not a very comforting thought, is it? So ... what do you think? 1) Are you saved? 2) Is there anything in all the world--especially something you've never experienced before--that could cause you to lose your salvation? 3) If so, then what work must you do to keep your salvation, and is that a credit to you for having done it? "“ In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.” - Ephesians 1:13-14

The way I interpret this is that "falling away" is deciding to stop believing. To make a conscious decision to walk away from him and turn your back on him knowingly. We couldn't be good enough to gain salvation .... we aren't good enough to hold onto salvation either.. .no works are good enough. There would be no point for Jesus to die for our sins, if even after his sacrifice and accepting him, asking forgiveness and believing he is lord, you just lose it by being human. If you keep faith and love him, he never forsakes you. That's what I believe.

​@aaronharlow2137 please explain what Hebrews is talking about then. You can't do that because it doesn't fit any other interpretation

@@aaronharlow2137 once saved always saved ppl dont even believe you can withdraw it; as you call it.

I agree with the panel's response. Those who supposedly "abandon" their faith never were truly saved to begin with. Sure, outwardly they may have looked, talked, and acted the part.... but when the heart is transformed by the Holy Spirit, are we saying he just didn't do a good enough job on some people? God forbid we should ever say the Holy Spirit's work is not sufficient! This goes back the the parable of the sower and the four types of soil. Two of the four will produce the outward appearance of salvation (i.e. a beautiful plant springs up quickly), but when the worries of the world or the scorching heat of persecution arise, their outward works shrivel up and die. That's why when former so-called "Christians" say they've deconstructed their faith, I don't think they really mean it. They likely never believed at all, but for reasons they found convenient, they pretended to be Christian, possibly even deceiving themselves about their sincerity for a time. I've seen people do this in many other areas of life. There's no reason to believe that we can't deceive ourselves about faith. How could a person who truly understand how lost he/she is and trusts in Christ's mercy as the only solution ever say... "Nah, that's not for me." Either one of two things happened: they never truly understood how lost they are (lacked true conviction, and so eventually turn back to self for answers) or they were convicted and fell into despair (never truly regenerated).

@@sidwhiting665even a person who truly understands how lost they are l, still have the capacity to fall in unbelief. Ive seen and heard many who truly believed and was swayed by other reasoning or circumstances. Apostasy is Real thing, that’s why Paul warned the gentile in Romans 11 that you too can be cut off from the branch if you stop believing just the like Israel. Gods part is true in Salvation, it’s finished and done. But man has to receive and Man can abandon the gift he was given.

​​@@sidwhiting665 yeah I would say if someone says they were a Christian and now isn't a Christian I truly believe they never actually believed wholeheartedly in the first place, you can't tell me someone is actually born again, understands and knows that's Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Knows that we're saved by grace through faith, and also knows that if it weren't for Jesus we would have to pay the penalty for our sins all by ourselves, Would ever actually want to give up their relationship and salvation with God and say "I don't want to accept Gods free gift anymore" and ultimately would want to rather accept hell instead of heaven after "believing" in Jesus and having the holy Spirit. As a believer I literally couldn't imagine forfeiting my salvation even when I never deserved it in the first place glory be to God the father for sending his son Jesus to die on the cross for my sins even when I was a sinner Amen❤️❤️

@@jayguison480 I hear what you're saying and am familiar with Paul's warning in Romans 11. That said, I'm also familiar with John's statement in 1 John 2:19. They went out from us because they never were of us. If they were of us, they would have stayed with us. I'm also familiar with Ephesians 1:13-15 which says the Holy Spirit is our guarantee that once we believe we are sealed with his power and guaranteed to obtain the inheritance of life. And one of the most blessed passages, Romans 8:38-39 which says nothing in all creation can separate us from the love of God which is ours in Christ. I'm not sure which passages you're relying on explicitely. Romans 11 also describes how God's call is "irrevocable", suggesting it cannot be undone once it is done. that would make God's call ineffectual and subject to change. This is where I believe we have to let Scripture interpret Scripture rather than relying on human logic. I've always understood Romans 11 to be about how the Gentiles as a group were extended the same grace as the Jews, that they too could now participate as part of God's chosen people. It's a call back to the OT concept that was exclusive to Israel, but now includes all peoples of all nations. It's a reminder not to rely on one's heritage or ancestry. I do not believe it pertains to individual believers who have been born again. If you wish to say how you came to your conclusion, I'd be interested to hear it.

@@sidwhiting665 This is my perspective as well. I've seen some of the work Christ has done in my life (not to mention the lives of others). There is no way I would EVER consider abandoning the faith. You'd have to kill me first. I agree with Peter in John 6:68 when he said “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." It's either Jesus or it's no one.

Whats your point?

That scripture is misquoted as usual. It is about false converts who walk away. They are going back into the law and animal sacrifices. You cannot lose your salvation. If you could who would have it.

@@RichardM1366 if they aren't real converts, what do they have to walk away from?

Buy what about apostasy, Bart Erhman is a prime example. Went to Bible seminary, became a pastor, knows scripture. But for some reason turned away from the faith and now an atheist. What if a believer to save his own skin takes the mark of the beast to feed his family? What then? You cannot serve 2 Masters. In Revelations 22:19 it speaks of those who keep His commandments having access to the Holy City and the tree of Life. Tree of life is needed to sustain immortality is it not?

​@@RichardM1366Read this then ‭Hebrews 6:4-8 NKJV‬ [4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [5] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [6] if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. [7] For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; [8] but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. It's not referring to "false converts"!

How then do you explain verses 26 and 27 of that same chapter? Not arguing btw, I'm legit curious as I've wrestled with this for a long time.

2 Peter 1:10-11 KJV Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure... Gal. 5:1-5), be "cut off" from salvation (Rom. 11:18-22), have their names removed from the Lamb's Book of Life (Rev. 22:19), by committing certain sins and not repenting of them (cf. Eph. 5: 3-5; 1Cor. 6:9; Gal. 5:19, Rev. 21:6-8). Salvation is sure through Jesus but all because we say a prayer and believe in God is not enough.

@@jareddevine8813read the next 2 verses in 1 Cor. 6: “and that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” The Corinthians were carnal Christians. Paul called them believers even though they were living these sinful lifestyles. He’s reminding them that they now have the righteousness of Christ imputed to them and are no longer judged by their sinful works. That’s how God used to see them. Keep reading in verse 12. Just because they have freedom in Christ doesn’t mean they can live however they want. They should live for Christ now and confirm their calling, which is what you quoted in 1 Peter. It doesn’t mean we can lose salvation once we have it, because we got it as a free gift and received it by believing. We can’t keep it by doing good works (Paul condemns this in Galatians). Justification positionally before God is always by grace through faith in Christ. Never by works, because if it was, it’s no longer grace.

I have yet to see anyone who believes in eternal security do a verse by verse exegesis of the book of hebrews. It would be helpful because taken at face value, you can definitely lose something that sounds like our salvation

Another strong argument for salvation assurance is additionally in Hebrews 10, and sadly, that passage has been used to scare people. In 10:26-29, instead of reading this dire warning in context, preachers teach this is proof of salvation loss. If one "goes on sinning willfully" is defined within a few verses. "ANYONE who has set aside the law of Moses dies...how much severed punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God...( in other words who HAS NOT RECEIVED the final offering that forever perfects those who trust in Jesus, the Lamb of God). Misunderstandings of this and other passages plagued me for years. But thank God, I have found peace through proper discernment.

As with any statement of Scripture, taking this verse out of context leads to misinterpretation. The immediate context of Christ's remark is the state of the world immediately prior to His second coming (Matthew 24:14). The broader framework of His teaching is found in other lessons (John 5:24; 10:28-29). Those who survive the tribulation will be "saved" in the sense of being "spared," and will continue to live in the millennial kingdom. The concept that one could lose or walk away from eternal life is contrary to other teachings of both Christ and the apostles (1 John 3:14; 5:11-12).

Because the demons can't believe unto Him for salvation. They knew Him before humans did, and they choose to rebel, their damnation was sealed from that moment, no salvation/forgiviness for them ever.

True but to be fair demons can never get salvation anyway. Romans 5 and the first few chapters of Hebrews shows clearly that angels cannot partake in the substitutionary atonement.

Exactly.

That is not even close to being Biblical! Stop spewing lies like you know something.

Is this 'Born Again?' “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation ; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.” II Corinthians‬ ‭5‬:‭17 "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." - Matt 7:20 "Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples." - John 15:8 ------------ "… by their fruits ye shall know them." So the 'Symptoms' of being Born Again are 'bearing fruit?' "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit." John 15:2 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." - Matt 7:19 So, "Fruits" are apparently pretty important." "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." - Matt 12:50 "Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me." John 14:23,24 So someone actually 'Born Again' will be found DOING... the will and commandments of God..? So "Works" are part of what "Born Again" looks like? That's probably 'WHY...' James says, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." - James 2:26 Yea…, I'll bet he's trying to tell us something…. Our 'Salvation' is absolutely an act of Grace and cannot be earned. However, being "Born Again" as a "Child of God" comes with responsibilities. (A… "Child of 'GOD'...") and "a heart of flesh" that moves us to do what is right before the eyes of the Lord without further prompting and micro-managerial commands. "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; AND I WILL- NOT- BLOT OUT HIS NAME out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." - Rev 3:5 You can never cancel out one N.T. scripture with another, they are complimentary not contradictory. "Born Again? "My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34 These are the WORDS of Jesus Christ from His own lips : (… and He's 'blotting out names'.) 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." - Matt. 25:31-46 The Bible is written solely to the people who are going to hear and read it and have the heart to accept it - The Elect. "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." - John 12:40 The people the Lord is talking about BELIEVE… they are saved - but they are not. "21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matt 7:21-23 ---------------------------- "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1 Faith & Works do not contradict, 'works' are part of what "Born Again" looks like. "Worship in spirit and in truth." - John 4:24 No matter what 'deeper meanings' you believe you see in a scripture, and they go very deep, but they never contradict the face-value meaning of the verse(s) you are 'interpreting.' Let The Bible speak for itself - it never contradicts itself and Jesus Christ never subordinated HIS Word in His Gospels to Paul or anyone else… That would absolutely result in chaos. And it has. "My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34 "knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 20,21 That includes Churches, 'Scholars,' book writers and all of their conflicting doctrines and chaos without which there would be no "Christian Denominations." - 'Chaos.' "My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34 Let The 'Biblical Word' on the page speak for itself.

How does one realize this?

Salvation comes when you trust in Christ. Acts 16:30-31 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved-you and your household.”

No.

Salvation comes from grace alone, faith alone, belief in Christ alone.

Really? I think Jesus would disagree.

Did you take into consideration the context of that first verse. Context is crucial in finding out truth.

The context is the 7year tribulation, not now. If ur there, then ur there because either u rejected Christ altogether or u never had a chance to except Him. Context can fix a lot of blunders.

@@aarondowler2466you are incorrect! Don’t get caught off-guard!

No you can't lose your salvation, to say people can is to say God is a liar. Romans 8:30, Romans 11:29 Romans 8:38&39, John 10:28&29. As1 John 2:19 says, those who depart from the faith were never a part of the faith in the first place.

You said: "what Turek forgets though is that you do not get salvation. Salvation is in Christ. If you abandon Christ and go the way of the world, you do not have salvation." -> The Bible is clear that someone gets eternal life (salvation) the moment they believe in Jesus. He that believes on Christ "Hath" (present tense) everlasting life. The record that God gave of his Son that we are to believe is "God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son." Those are John 6:47 and 1 John 5:10-13. 2 Timothy 1:8-9 and Titus 3:5-7 show that Paul addressed believers as already having been saved by God. Hebrews 10:10-14 is clear that the moment we are sanctified we're "perfected for ever", meaning Once Saved Always Saved is true. Jude 1:1-2 shows that Paul addressed believers as "them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ." ------------------------------ John 6:47 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. ------------------------------ 1 John 5:10 - He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 1 John 5:11 - And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 1 John 5:12 - He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 1 John 5:13 - These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. ------------------------------ 2 Timothy 1:8 - Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 2 Timothy 1:9 - Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, ------------------------------ Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:6 - Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; Titus 3:7 - That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. ------------------------------ Hebrews 10:10 - By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Hebrews 10:11 - And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: Hebrews 10:12 - But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; Hebrews 10:13 - From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. Hebrews 10:14 - For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. ---------------------------- Jude 1:1 - Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: Jude 1:2 - Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied. ----------------------------

@michaelc7418 you had a lot of scripture, some of it not talking about what we are. You need to learn the language and way the Bible talks. For example Jesus said. Those that believe in Me will not die...now do you see Christians living endless lives? So did Jesus lie? No. You just need to understand what He is talking about. He says those that die He will raise again. Well what does He mean about the not dieing part?...well He was referring to the rapture, when He comes to take His people. Those that are alive will change like Peter and Paul say and will be lifted up to meet Him in the clouds so the that is when Jesus's words will be fulfilled. Those people will Never die. While the rest of us for the last 2,000 years have passed away. Same thing here you can not look at the Bible in the context of a few passages to be able to understand the entire thing. . The deciples did that mistake when Jesus talked about eating His flesh. That is a weird thing to hear. But trust and time would have shown different things. Jesus said He is the life, the truth, and the way. Jesus is life. Do a deeper dive and you will see that everlasting life with God is only in Jesus and not outside it. When the Bible says we have it, it is true, but do you know why? Because we have Jesus in us. He enters our heart through faith and baptism with the Holy Spirit. That is why there are places in the Bible telling us. Remain in His love, remain in His word, Remain in Him. It's telling out that because you can go outside of it and one of the times like a branch that is dry, you might get cut off.

​@@michaelc7418 I think linguistic context and differences are missing in your argument coz the Greek use continuous tenses ( eg if you continue believing or continue seeking/knocking/ asking) it's not a 1 time thing where if once you believed therefore you're saved for life. That's why Paul talked about running his race & keeping the Faith

Those verses prove that you have to not just believe in christ but Believeth which is ongoing choice to put your faith in christ so if you choose to take your faith away from christ then your not believing any more and are not saved and if your faith is in a once saved always saved doctrine no mater how you live then you are blind and Luke warm which Bible says God will spit you out

If salvation is a gift, as scripture often refers to it, then it exists whether we receive it or not. In order to receive it we have to accept it. Conversely like a gift, we can reject the gift. Salvation still exists whether we accept it or not. It is our choice. Calvinism promotes the idea that once you get the gift you can’t reject it. That’s not supported by Paul or the other NT writers.

Were they broken off because of sin or because of unbelief?

Death, judgement, heaven, hell. The last two are for all eternity, yes, indeed. And many, nay, MOST, choose hell. Many are called, few are chosen, few say yes, I will serve.

Shalom aleichem (peace be unto you). Except the scripture was written in Greek and Hebrew not Latin or English. The Hebrew word is owlam, the Greek is aion, aionion or ainios, of which we have the English eon, eonion and eonios. The vulgate turned aion into aeternium then instead of eon made it eternal. Making this a non sequitor. Hebrew words are based on the root word and it's first appearance in scripture. What if some think they are saved when they are not, then they are convinced they cannot lose what they do not have, thinking they have and cannot lose what is not theirs. Better to ask are you really saved at all and how can you be sure, many are called and few chosen, the elect are chosen. But the many are not chosen, yet the many think they are because they were called. Even the chosen must be faithful, hence "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful." Paul says clearly to the Galatians KJV "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." NIV "For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace." To be cut off you must be attached. To fall away you must have once been close and ascended. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. "IF" you continue in goodness ....IF NOT /CUT OFF. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Because the carnal (flesh) mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Who reigns in your body the Lord or sin? Enmity means the state or feeling of being actively opposed or hostile to someone or something (an enemy). Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; You cannot serve 2 masters, you serve the one you choose to yield to, sin or grace? Disobedience is rebellion and witchcraft. Practice the acts of the flesh and you will not inherit the kingdom of God, do not let sin deceive you. You can depart from God (no he will never leave nor forsake us but we can freely leave at any time). So I EXHORT you HOLD FAST to the end and do not count the thing were by you are sealed as unholy!!! For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron. And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. Sinning willfully as opposed to falling into sin, you are not repentant if you sin willfully, you chose to freely and willfully sin and turn the grace of God into lasciviousness, thereby denying the Lord who bought you with his blood. You can depart from the faith and many will in these last days by being deceived about false doctrines and will depart. God will not stop you if you depart, you are free to choose, but God loves you and did everything he could to make a way for you (the straight and narrow path) but if you choose the broad path to destruction you will have no one else to blame. Amen and Selah, Maranatha!!!

He completely failed to use logic. What is eternal is the life not your possession of it.

[20]The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. [21]“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. [22]None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. [23]Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live? [24]“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die. [25]“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? [26]When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. [27]Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. [28]Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. [29]Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair? [30]“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord God. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. [31]Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? [32]For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!” Ezekiel 18:20-32

Can you die should be the question. Romans 8:12-13 (ESV) 12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Do you think Paul is talking about earthly death? It's about spiritual death. See what Jesus talk about Sardis Church . “ ‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead., Re 3:1.

God doesn't Chase after anyone.He is ever present,thus giving us a free will

Is Paul talking about salvation, which is a gift or rewards?

If Paul finished the race poorly it doesn’t mean he was going to hell. He just wasn’t going to maybe hear well done good and faithful servant

#Deceived

Philippians 1:6

​@@johndibert5509Brilliant answer

Uh, yes, you can indeed loose your salvation. The Bible isn't talking about those who have endured to the end suddenly being lost, it's referring to those who did not make it to the end, were saved initially but did not complete justification.

I don't think the word unsaved is used, but here are some things the Bible say can happen: we can be severed from Christ, if we will not forgive someone, our heavenly Father will not forgive us (with a parable of a master revoking his pardon for someone), We can be fallen from grace, If we do not stand by faith, we will be broken off (from the tree), like the jews who rejected Jesus. And if we deny Him, He will deny us. Those who endure to the end will be saved. Do we take these warnings to heart, or accept a false security, saying that what the Bible warns can happen really can't happen?

Calvinism takes away man’s free will. Therefore making God only able to save certain individuals which is disgusting. Jesus said if ANY man come after me let him take up his cross and follow me.

Calvinist or not, the humblest Christians are the ones who are the most astounded that God saved such sinners as they. God's electing love is so scandalous. Why me? We must continue asking that. God is so, so good.

Well, from Romans 10:9-10, once you believe that Jesus being God, died was buried and resurrected then you are saved.

@@BFM777who are we to decide who gets saved .. a sovereign God doesn’t need anyone’s permission to save whom he pleases out of PURE GRACE . Or do you not believe in a sovereign God ? What does he owe US ?

Is this 'Born Again?' “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation ; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.” II Corinthians‬ ‭5‬:‭17 "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." - Matt 7:20 "Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples." - John 15:8 ------------ "… by their fruits ye shall know them." So the 'Symptoms' of being Born Again are 'bearing fruit?' "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit." John 15:2 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." - Matt 7:19 So, "Fruits" are apparently pretty important." "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." - Matt 12:50 "Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me." John 14:23,24 So someone actually 'Born Again' will be found DOING... the will and commandments of God..? So "Works" are part of what "Born Again" looks like? That's probably 'WHY...' James says, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." - James 2:26 Yea…, I'll bet he's trying to tell us something…. Our 'Salvation' is absolutely an act of Grace and cannot be earned. However, being "Born Again" as a "Child of God" comes with responsibilities. (A… "Child of 'GOD'...") and "a heart of flesh" that moves us to do what is right before the eyes of the Lord without further prompting and micro-managerial commands. "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; AND I WILL- NOT- BLOT OUT HIS NAME out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." - Rev 3:5 You can never cancel out one N.T. scripture with another, they are complimentary not contradictory. "Born Again? "My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34 These are the WORDS of Jesus Christ from His own lips : (… and He's 'blotting out names'.) 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." - Matt. 25:31-46 The Bible is written solely to the people who are going to hear and read it and have the heart to accept it - The Elect. "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." - John 12:40 The people the Lord is talking about BELIEVE… they are saved - but they are not. "21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matt 7:21-23 ---------------------------- "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1 Faith & Works do not contradict, 'works' are part of what "Born Again" looks like. "Worship in spirit and in truth." - John 4:24 No matter what 'deeper meanings' you believe you see in a scripture, and they go very deep, but they never contradict the face-value meaning of the verse(s) you are 'interpreting.' Let The Bible speak for itself - it never contradicts itself and Jesus Christ never subordinated HIS Word in His Gospels to Paul or anyone else… That would absolutely result in chaos. And it has. "My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34 "knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 20,21 That includes Churches, 'Scholars,' book writers and all of their conflicting doctrines and chaos without which there would be no "Christian Denominations." - 'Chaos.' "My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." - Ps. 89:34 Let The 'Biblical Word' on the page speak for itself.

It is because they do not understand what type of faith saves and they do not understand there are different works, works of the law and works of faith. There is no boasting in the law of faith, Romans 3:27

The whole books needs the treatment and the fact that it seems to not have been done is telling. Main reason why Luther wanted it gone. If anyone has a series taught by anyone, I would love it

Hebrews 6 is addressing the issue of false converts. They may have tasted some of the good things associated with genuine faith in God, such as fellowship time with believers, comfort from sorrows, and even material blessings.... but in the end they never were crucified to the flesh and raised again spiritually. They are rather the two types of soil in the Parable of the Sower: the rocky soil and the thorny soil. The Gospel showed some fruit in their lives, but they were never rooted deeply in the soil of Christ. When persecution and worldly troubles came, they shriveled up and died. This is particularly troubling, because as that passage says, "Hey, you KNEW everything you needed to know. You had the head knowledge about God. You even got some of the good things that come with following him... but in the end, you never really trusted him." There's no going back once you willfully, fully, utterly, and unrepentantly reject the things of God. The Good News is, like the Prodigal Son, the character of the Father is what matters, not how bad the son behaves. No, we should not sin. We should be, as Paul says in Romans, dead to sin and alive in Christ. But outwardly, we may sin repeatedly and stubbornly for many years before--as the parable says--remembering the good things of God. Then we return in repentance, and the Father is rich in mercy and love to forgive before we even formally ask. Hebrews is advanced theology, no doubt. But if we let Scripture interpret Scripture (always the best idea), there are far too many places where God gives assurance of a promise that isn't based on our efforts. Even in Hebrews 6, the latter half of the chapter is about how faithful God was to Abraham in spite of how many times Abraham sinned by rebelling against God. We have to be careful, lest we add in our works to the process of salvation. Works confirm our salvation and serve the kingdom. They do not earn it, not even one bit. Paul is clear on this.

The key is in the title of the book - "Hebrews". It applies doctrinally to Jews in the tribulation, not saved believers in the Church age.

Reading in context, it appears that the question is one of sorting the wheat from the chaff. Human beings are incredibly good at deceiving ourselves as to our own motives and intentions. I consider the Parable of the Sower: there are four kinds of soil that the seed of the Gospel falls on. Two of the four (shallow rocky soil and thorny soil) allow the plant to grow for a time. It may look GREAT outwardly, but it has not root in Christ. When persecutions or worldly worries come up, then those plants shrivel and die. Take for example many of the so-called Christian pastors, podcasters, and music artists that have fallen away in recent years. They may have had all the outward signs of salvation: leading a large church, writing amazing worship songs, giving solid Biblical teaching, but they themselves may never have been truly convicted, repented, and put their faith, hope, and trust in Christ. Odds are they probably thought they were sincere, at least for a time. As 1 John says, "They went out from us, because they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us." The lesson I learn is that looks can be very deceiving, even to the person who is putting on the deception. Enduring to the end is the confirmation that we are saved. The trick is... we don't know in this lifetime who will endure to the end. The confidence of the faithful is that we trust in God's word, that he WILL carry us through to the end. Even in our doubts, fears, and trembling.... we turn to him. It may take time, but eventually we turn back to him.

So I would ask the questions to myself if Jesus was talking about the Jews during the tribulation or the Gentiles before the rapture.

Great question. Matthew 24:13 talks about how true Christians endure to the end. I don't believe that verse is talking about people losing salvation. I believe it's talking about how true Christians endure to the end. I believe that verse is talking about how you can tell whether someone is truly saved. When someone becomes saved, God changes them to where they aren't slaves to sin anymore (they still sin, still have sin struggles, etc, but they aren't slaves to sin anymore), they will persevere until the end, they will endure to the end, they'll always be saved, etc. Christians do backslide at times, but Christians endure, persevere, etc to the end in the faith and aren't slaves to sin anymore. Matthew 7 talks about how there's a lot of people who say "Lord Lord" but when they die, God tells them to depart from him due to him never knowing them. That verse isn't talking about people losing their salvation. The point of that verse is not everyone that claims to be a Christian is a Christian, and that God is not fooled into thinking someone's a Christian when they're not. God knows who's a Christian and who isn't a Christian. There's a lot of people in this world that claim to be Christians that aren't Christians. Some people think they can fool God into thinking that they're a Christian when they're not a Christian. There is a lot of evidence in the Bible that proves people can't lose their salvation. 1 John 5:13 talks about how you can know for certain that you have eternal life. If you can know for certain that you have eternal life, that' s strong evidence how you can't lose your salvation. 1 John 2:19 talks about how there's no such thing as an ex-Christian. If there's no such thing as an ex-Christian, that implies how people can't lose their salvation.

Amen 🔥

Patrick, you cannot loose that you are a human being, but you can indeed loose your salvation. Those things you talk about are things you have intrinsically. You are not intrinsically saved therefore you cannot logically conclude you cannot loose salvation. It's a stupid analogy Pat. You didn't think that bad idea through, because you listen to pastors that teach once saved always saved lies. They tickle your ear and you love being told what you want to hear.

Technically even if you fell away from your faith. You would be at fault and God never breaking his promise or seal because you decided to fall away. That would be on you. Just like the Israelites back in the Old Testament was in the promise and they sinned and was then outside of the promise. That falls on them falling away not on God not keeping his promise.

Grieve not the Holy Spirit by which you are sealed?

Romans 11:22

I would have to many passages to find them all but I suggest you start with John 15 v6 and Hebrews 6v6 It's possible to be erased from the book of life both in the OT and in the NT Psalms 69:28 & Revelation 3v5

I want to believe this, but how would you explain Hebrews 10:26-27?

So you think truth is subjective?

Yeah God didn’t waste his time with warnings just for us to come to a conclusion that all is well just believe sit back and relax, Jesus said why do you call me Lord and don’t DO what I say. Many say Lord but don’t do the works that Jesus gives them, all his parables point to lazy half hearted phonies who will not be in his kingdom.

But Jude says "Now unto him that is able to keep you from FALLING, and to present you FAULTLESS before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy"

The Bible is not open to interpretation! You either understand what is written or you don't. Jesus even says multiple times "He who has ears, let him hear"; when you write something, do you leave it open for interpretation, or, are you trying to convey a particular message?

Remember the Name of Jesus. What does it mean?

However, one may “think” ones has eternal life when in fact one may not have it.

This scripture clarifies things perfectly_ [20]The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. [21]“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. [22]None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. [23]Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live? [24]“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die. [25]“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? [26]When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. [27]Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. [28]Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. [29]Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair? [30]“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord God. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. [31]Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? [32]For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!” Ezekiel 18:20-32

IN THE TRIBULATION.

How'd you come to that conclusion?

Ananius and Sapphira both had the Holy Spirit; yet they lost their salvation when they lied to Him and were struck down; remember? Also, remember, Judas Iscariot was saved at one stage and then he let greed get the better of him?

What happened to Jonah? Why couldnt they go back to Egypt?

If salvation was something that we could loose then why does the Bible say you can’t? If the Bible is our source of truth then I would believe it before I believe anyone’s opinion. Second point…If salvation is something that we gain (fully) and then loose (completely) then what was the point of Jesus Christ death? Christ sacrifice sealed our fate as believers to be secured in heaven. If someone claims they lost their salvation then they never had it to begin with or they are under attack and deception from their own shame, guilt and outside spiritual attack!

You can grieve the holy Spirit and lose salvation.

In a nutshell, yep.

This is before salvation

If you are responsible for keeping or salvation you would lose it.

@@eddiesblacksmithingkjv9185 Is it? Please consider these ‭Hebrews 10:29-31 ESV‬ [29] How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant👉 by which he was sanctified,👈 and has outraged the Spirit of grace? [30] For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge 👉his people.”👈 [31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Please think on this more my friend. Not so you may live in fear, because we can have assurance, but that you nit be decieved by the decietfulness of sin. We have an enemy , we must not be ignorant of his schemes. ‭Hebrews 3:12-13, 15 ESV‬ [12] Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. [13] But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. [15] As it is said, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.” ‭Ephesians 5:5-6 ESV‬ [5] For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. [6]👉 Let no one deceive you with empty words,👈for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. ‭Ezekiel 33:13, 17-18 ESV‬ [13] Though I say to 👉the righteous👈 that he shall surely live, yet if he trusts in his righteousness and does injustice, none of his righteous deeds shall be remembered, but in his injustice that he has done he shall die. .....[17] “Yet your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just,’ when it is their own way that is not just. [18] When👉 the righteous👈 turns from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it. ‭Romans 2:9-11 ESV‬ [9] There will be tribulation and distress 👉for every human being 👈who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, [10] but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. [11] 👉For God shows no partiality. 👈 Food for thought Thanks for sharing, God bless you friend

@@eddiesblacksmithingkjv9185 ‭Jude 1:21 ESV‬ [21] 👉keep yourselves👈 in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. ‭John 15:9-10 ESV‬ [9] As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you.👉 Abide in my love. [10] If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love,👈 just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. ‭1 Timothy 4:16 ESV‬ [16] Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing👉 you👈 will save both yourself and your hearers.

Wanna bet they believe in free will but of course if you get a free gift and you can abuse the gift giver and never lose it it seems they are fine with abusing the blood of the one who sanctified them. Setting the stage for the son of perdition imho

This implies that my going to church and my commitment to Christ brings me salvation.

"I never knew you"

Then explain the Name of Jesus. OR SHALL NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION. You can't. Further you believe you can lose baptism too.

Let me guess...you're a catholic, right? 🤦‍♂️

We would get it back tbe same way we first got it, repent and believe on Jesus.

That's to the point.

Verses?

Correct

Where does it say that? All sin is “willful”. God disciplines His children to bring them back in line. You can’t be unborn.

Where does it say in the Bible that names will be removed from the Book of Life?

Christ said he would lose none, scripture says you’re sealed unto the day of redemption, how do you account for these?

​@@japexican007Once saved always saved isn't true. It's heretical.

@@japexican007 He won’t lose you, but you can walk away. And seals can be broken. So from a purely logical point of view those passages don’t contradict the nearly 85 passages that say or convey you can forsake your salvation.

If a person loses his/her's salvation the John 3:16 would not be true. " For God so love the world he sent his only begotten Son, that who so ever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

@manaomialiusamoa6813 Yeah, John 3:16 qouting ignores that this is an omission. It was already mentioned in John's gospel that one must be water baptized in order to gain this new everlasting life. So to read this passage but ignore the context of it is where heresies spread like the idea that all you gotta do is "believe and you are good". One must be baptized *water baptism* to be saved. If you had the gutts to research Christianity on Google you will learn that's exactly how Christians always understood it pre reformation disaster.

Free gifts can be conditional.

Hibbs said nowhere in the Bible did anyone lose salvation, wrong, Demas left the faith, for the world

@@dh1335 It doesn't say he left the faith. It says he forsook Paul. We don't know what happened to Demas after that.

The gate is narrow because people can not see the Gospel. Their pride blindes them. OSAS is a minority division in Christianity. And what was said, many will seek it and few will find it. Pride stops people from trusting in Jesus and makes them think I can save myself or keep myself saved. If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

The road is narrow because they don't believe. All the world's religions and most of christendom believe in works. They trust in themselves and not Jesus basically.

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. This is a NT warning that those saved in the OT who were saved afterwards stopped believing. You must contend for the faith by feeding it, faith comes by hearing the word, the enemy comes immediately to steal that word. Faith works by love and faith without works is dead, you must abide in that love and not abide in sin because whomsoever you serve is your master, either sin unto death or righteousness unto life. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. You choose this day whom you shall serve by who you yield yourself to. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, The enemy is looking to kill steal and destroy, he can and will steal your faith as the parable of the sower clearly warns you. Hold fast to you faith as you profess it or it can and will be taken, otherwise no reason to hold fast. If you sin willfully you, you choose to yield yourself to sin and reject the spirit of grace and of God. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The gate is narrow because the gate is through one man- God manifest in the flesh-Jesus.

Once saved always saved is a pretty wide gate. interestingly, Jesus talks about false prophet in the same chapter, and declares, those who even miracles in the name of Jesus, they won't be saved because they didn't do the will of father.

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

How are you “saved” if being saved means you are saving yourself by turning from sin. That’s not what salvation is. Salvation is understanding you’re a sinner in need of a Savior and putting your trust in Christ alone that He paid your ENTIRE sin debt. Once you put your trust in Him, you’re saved and sealed until the day of redemption- because you are indwelled with the Holy Spirit, in other words, born again. You can’t be unborn. And once born again, you don’t just go committing all these sins because God is IN you convicting you of righteousness AND He disciplines/chastises His children when they fall out of line or into sin. He’ll bring you back to fellowship with Him, but you never stop being His child. The strength of sin is the law- it stirs up rebellion. The love of Christ is what constrains us. God isn’t a fun stealer. Sin HURTS US. That’s why we don’t want to sin. We want to glorify God, but we also don’t want to go back into bondage. Why would we want to willingly put ourselves back in bondage and do things we know hurts us?

“There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.” ‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭16‬:‭25‬ ‭ This is the way that SEEMS right to man. The way that merits salvation and the sustenance of salvation based on performance. Unfortunately every man has and will continue to fall short of this way. Thank God the Bible points us to another way: “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” ‭‭John‬ ‭14‬:‭6‬ ‭KJV‬‬ The way to the father is through Jesus. The lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. This is the narrow way. Performance and merit apart from or even added to the blood of Jesus defeats its purpose. God demands perfection so your “lifestyle” is nothing but filthy rags to him. God see’s perfection through his SON by whom he’s well pleased. Without faith it is impossible to please God. Therefore when God see’s a believer he sees his Son. Not the believers filthy rags (performance). Salvation is solely based on Gods performance. Not ours. Therefore we are saved by GRACE through FAITH and NOT OF WORKS lest any man should boast. Once you are sealed you are sealed until the day of redemption. Once you are a son you are always a son. Once you are saved you are always saved. It’s Gods work, not ours. It’s Gods promises, not yours. God cannot lie 🙏

When people become Christians, they still sin. We aren't without sin. We don't earn salvation, it's a free gift from God. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

If you’re looking at salvation as a means to commit evil with impunity, I can promise you that you’re not actually saved.

When read in context. Your faith is useless to your brothers and sisters, if you don't do good works. Nowhere does it talk about salvation. But of a useless faith. Once again. It's the right thing to do, not the thing that proves your saved.

Amen. At least one comment that points to that. As protestants we say we read the Bible but we clearly haven't read James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

To him that worketh not but believeth on Him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Shalom aleichem (peace be unto you). Faith means to believe in, adhere to, rely on. Faith works by love (and not of yourself) and comes by hearing the rhema (spoken) word. The enemy comes immediately to steal the wood sown in their hearts. Your faith can be stolen by the deceitfulness of sin, it chokes the word (the spirit of python) and makes it unfruitful. These snakes are bearing the fruit of their master and selling everyone a bill of goods, and when the bill comes due these snakes will slither out the back. I wrote a lengthy response to this OSAS false doctrine, better read it quick before it gets deleted or censored, if it does just ask and I will link it to you directly. You can fall from grace (by the works of the law, not the same as works of faith) and your faith can be stolen and you can depart or fall away from the faith, but God will never leave us or forsake us (we can freely forsake him and his way though). God be with you and keep contending for the faith (Jude 1v3).

Yeah ear ticklers always giving the soft cookie sweet messages, false prophets love to tell you things that make you feel all cozy, meanwhile the REAL OT prophets were hated they weren’t popular, Jesus said woe unto you when all men speak well of you.

This logic implies that I can choose to give God back his free gift of salvation that I did not earn but was given freely to me by grace alone through faith. So yes my faith can falter but God’s grace does not.

Untrue.. sealed by God till day of redemption. No man can pluck you from my Father's hand... no man includes yourself. You're a prisoner of the Lord once saved. Read Luke ch.15.. parable teaches you can't run away if you wanted.

No. That’s exactly opposite of what they said…

God is faithful even when we're not, this is written several times in the Word of God. I mean look at the OT, God is always making covenants with his people and he never leaves them. Never, even when they do. When God gives you something he doesn't take it back, He's not a man.

What do you mean by ultimately? Like if a woman is raped, but she could have chosen to wear something else, is it ultimately because she chose to wear something sexually attractive? Or did a person do the raping? If God saves us when we are undeserved simply because we consent to being saved, so that means our salvation is ultimately determined by our consent and not by God who's doing the saving of an unworthy recipient? And again, if an elderly consents to being euthanized, is it ultimately the fault of the elderly person that they died? Or is it the healthcare system who is killing the elderly person? In what world does consent to be loved, willingness to receive a gift somehow make the recipient worthy of the gift or somehow deserving or as if they'd earned the gift simply by receiving it. What was presented in this video has nothing to do with what you're talking about...

Calvinism corrupts as well

Or we could just go by 1st John “if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin and unrighteousness”. Honestly, I don’t even like the question.

He is a Calvinist. He just explained you can not loose your salvation. Judas knew Christ.

ONLY difference that counts? Says who? They couldn’t be more different.

So you can sin as much as you want and cannot loose it. That makes no sense. 😅

Jack Hibbs doesn’t seem worried either. Do you really think Paul was?

He wasn’t talking about salvation.

#BiblicallyUneducated

So how many good works keeps you saved and how many sins takes away salvation? Have you ripped your eyes out or cut of your arm? You are twisting what the Scripture said. It said "I never knew you" it means you never were saved. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

That was before the cross. That context matters.

So you are trusting in yourself? It's once again a thing that's the right thing to do. But since we can not keep the law anyway. It would be absurd to say that. Well you are saved ny grace through faith, BUT there's this one thing you MUST do.

Jesus also told you to rip out your eye and tear of your arm? How's that going?

So you are trusting yourself and not Jesus?

1. Jesus says “I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE”. Will not means he will not if indeed these words are from God because it is impossible for God to lie. 2. This is a promise that applies to “he who overcomes”. Who is that according to the Bible? “For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?” ‭‭1 John‬ ‭5‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭KJV‬‬ Therefore if you are born of God you are an overcomer. Who is he? The one that believes that Jesus is the son of God. So if you are a BELIEVER you are an overcomer and God promises NOT to blot his name out of the book of life. This verse actually proves eternal security when it’s not butchered out of context. Hallelujah for the promise of his word. God cannot lie!

Why do you believe that? The reason I ask is that I have heard this claim often with no support given. I see in Scripture a clear warning about falling away, people who turn to a false Gospel are severed from Christ, those who deny Christ will be denied by Him, and if we will not forgive others God will not forgive us. To me it seems clear people can and do lose salvation. But why would I believe that if we could fall away we would? The Bible says instead that if we endure to the end in faith we will be saved.

I don’t believe that’s what the word says. If you remain in Him, He will abide in you. Continue walking in His ways being obedient. Don’t be like the wicked, who have an unbelieving heart, and depart from the truth. Hebrews 3:12

John, 3:3, Ephesians 2:8-9, every believer is going to continue to sin. Judging can be a tricky situation. But if there is absolutely no change in a person’s life after they claim to become a believer. Then most likely they’re not a believer to begin with. That’s one of the dangers of growing up in the church. You take part and all the church activities. You have an emotional experience on a Sunday morning or at a camp. Everyone else is going forward so you go forward the person in front pronounces you saved. the only problem is you’re not saved and you only had an emotional experience. Any person who is truly born again would never choose to leave their heavenly father and go to hell. True, out of all the hundreds of millions of people in heaven there won’t be one single person there because they were forced to be there. If they were there, it would be like hell to them.

Love may compel, discipline, correct, BUT NO , LOVE DOES NOT FORCE. GOD IS LOVE